Outwitted - Mini 1254 (Game Over)

[Zang]

Vote: GreyICE

For thinking that it's bad to be Zangish.

[Zang]

nonengagement on page 1?

[Zang]

On a related note, I've got a fun idea.

Let's claim our point totals we played last night.

That is a horrible, anti-town idea. How could you not see that?

It's pretty fucking clear that the Lurconis wagon is due to a fucking softclaimed PR result.

I don't think so. To me, it seems like a normal random vote and a cop is already dead

Which puts me at READS ITERATION #1:
TOWN
Llamarble
CES
Spyspy
GreyICE

Probtown:
Seraphim
Zang
Andy

Eh:
Darox

SCUM:
LLD
ML
Yos
Lurconis

Those are pretty strong reads for page 2.

[Zang]

GI, explaining town reads is anti-town.

Why is Zang scum?

'cause he's Zang.

Read his ISO.

You tell me what you think.

Why am I scum? I see nothing scummy about my ISO or the fact that I am Zang.

[Zang]

As far as I know, my play isn't that scummy and I post in quote walls regardless of alignment. I also fail to see why they are even scummy.

Also, how can you guarantee that I'll be scummy if I was scum in the only game I've played with you and that game was about a year ago?

[Zang]

How can you say that he was scum based on one rvs post?

[Zang]

How can you say that he was scum based on one rvs post?

Because I'm a champion. Duh.

Ok

Unvote
Vote: Seraphim

I don't have to explain my reasoning though because I'm a champion.

[Zang]

Zang: I could do a little psychological evaluation for ya on why the positioning, the person he voted, and how he voted all make him scum but that would long, convoluted, and distracting to the actual matter at hand which is Lurc's current posting, right now, which is incredibly scummy and makes him look like a scummy McScummer pants.

No, I want you to explain it to me.

[Zang]

How is this:

VOTE: CES

Any different than this?:

Vote:CES

[Zang]

What exactly do you plan on gaining from this line of questioning, Zang?

Also, Lurc's 98 is as good as a scum claim and anyone who doesn't vote him in their next post is confirmed as his buddy.

I plan on gaining reasoning for why you can call somebody scum based off of nothing but an RVS vote. It's completely impossible to be that sure of a person's alignment based just on an RVS vote.

You can't just call a person scummy and expect that person to be lynched.

Better question, Zang: how are they at all similar?

They are both votes for you in the RVS. I see no difference big enough to call one scum and not the other.

[Zang]

I see no reason to think he is scum.

How does that 13 posts make any difference? I want you to explain exactly why you think that post was scummy.

[Zang]

Only if you can explain why the rest of his posts could possibly come from town.

No, you are the person accusing him of being scum. It is your duty as town to give an explaination why. He will not be lynched by you just saying that his posts are scummy with no explaination why they are.

I have no idea what alignment he is so I have nothing to explain to you.

[Zang]

I have gone back several times and I can not think of any reason why a simple RVS vote can be seen as that scummy. So it is your duty to explain it to me otherwise you have no reasons and calling somebody scum for no reason is scummy.

And you are calling all of his posts scummy yet you only give reasoning for one of his posts. Also, it makes sense for him to be defensive because he is at L-2.

[Zang]

Why are you so adamantly defending this guy? I'm done talking to you BTW.

Because I don't understand the reasons for why you think he is scum, specifically for why he is scum based on only his first post. If you just told me then this wouldn't be such a big deal.

[Zang]

Also, why is darox town?

[Zang]

nope, nope, you have to say with Lurc is town and why you're defending him so adamantly first.

Those are my conditions, otherwise you have to read on your own, a shocking concept I'm sure.

I don't think he is town, I just don't think he is scum and I've already explained why I'm defending him.

[Zang]

Lurc doesn't bring up Grey's supposed policy on Zang. At all. He ignores it, even though it's clear that GreyICE was not kidding. He doesn't ask "why would you say that, Grey?" . He votes for CES instead, the player who actually had the most posting activity previous to that. The most visible player, actually. But also the player who was least likely to OMGUS him because CES had already revoted for GreyICE after it was clear there was a wagon on him. I could feel the scum tension, the possible mislynch deep within the very saliva glands of his mouth, watering ever so slightly at the possibility of a kill. This is pretty much conjecture and is really reading into the tone of the post. Of just a vote. Within the context.

Both with his vote for CES and the rest of your case on him, I really think that you are looking way to much into this.

Unvote

Zang, the reason they are utterly different in my mind is that Yos2 knows me and is an experienced player. His vote is boring stuff. Lurc doesn't know me; it's pretty darn likely that his vote was influenced by happenings in-thread. That's what opens it up to analysis.

Why didn't you say this when I first brought it up?

[Zang]

I think you're sitting on the fence like a good little scumbuddy. No longer able to attack the attacker on any reasonable grounds you back off but still discredit the wagons. Oh you silly silly scum.

I could easily find reasonable grounds to vote you. I think your just finding a way to discredit me for discrediting your case.

[Zang]

Its a night start.

[Zang]

I'm glad to see you too.

[Zang]

Yay, Fate is here!
Lurc claims town? Okay.
VOTE: Yos

For the same reasons as before?

Why do you think lurc is town?

ANDRIUS

WHY WILL ZANG BE ANY BETTER?

HE CLAIMED TO HAVE A META OF FUCKING DELIBERATELY LURKING. HE WORKS ON THIS SO HE CAN LURK OUT ALL HIS SCUM GAMES.

PLUS I HATE HIS POSTS.

HE'S AT LEAST AS SCUMMY AS LURCONIS, AND DAROX AND... WHY DON'T WE HAVE A VIG.

OH MY GOD THE PAIN THE PAIN.

FATE WE CAN'T LYNCH ANDRIUS TODAY TOO MANY OF THESE PEOPLE NEED TO DIE WITH FIRE.

What does this have to do with me?

This game is about to reach 10 pages without a lynch

WTF people, we had a N0 and everything

==========[ ]

MORE POSTS ARE MORE ANTI_TOWN

Why do you want a lynch so soon?

Conclusion: scummy-ish, want more data.

This is enough for you to vote for him?

The other half of the apparent Zang-GreyICE grudgematch, he dosn't come off looking any better then GreyICE. All he's done so far is defend himself against policy votes and OMGUS vote people for voting him. Verdict: Somewhat scummy.

I've done a lot more than arguing with GreyICE.

[Zang]

Yes. Not a rock-solid scum read, but at this point, 8 pages in, that's the strongest scum read I have. Also, the best way to get more data here is probably to apply some pressure and see what happens.

I disagree but I understand.

I caught Lurc.

No, you did not catch lurc it is impossible to catch anybody until they are lynched and flip scum so until then, you assuming that you caught him is very scummy and not true.

Let's lynch GreyIce once this Lurc thing resolves.

Mhmm.

What TOWN motivation could there be to point out that "Fate's a PR" ???

Wtf is this shit

throw him in the furnace

Where in that quote does Darox mention you being a PR?

I have a scumread on Zang for his obstructionist walls and general attitude.

That has nothing to do with my alignment though. I am like this in every game so how would that make me scum?

Well that was fun

Unvote:
Vote: Andrius

SPYREX OBEY YOUR BLOOD CONTRACT

I can support this.

Vote: Andrius

THE CONTRACT WILL BE FULFILLED

Unvote, Vote: Andrius

Unvote, vote: Andrius

Why did everybody suddenly start voting for andrius?

[Zang]

Thanks for answering my question.

[Zang]

think you misunderstood.

Fate was agreeing with Darox about lynching GreyICE, because this post, where GreyICE randomly declared Fate to be a pro-town power role:

Fate is a power role AND an excellent scumhunter PLUS obvtown. Unfortunately a strong ocular disorder is preventing me from reading his posts. How sad.

looked really scummy and role-fish-y and anti-town.

Also, I'm a little confused about why you missed this, since GreyICE was just being questioned about the whole rolefishing thing.

I saw GreyICE's post and the questioning about it. I just didn't understand what that had to do with what fate quoted. But thanks for clarifying.

Fate however ignored me and although I didn't really expect him to answer it, he still ignored a question directly asked to him which is scummy. He and everybody else also ignored me when I asked why they voted for Andrius.

Oops, you done cocked up.
Now you get to squeal.

Vote: Andrius

Why?

Andrius gets to live actually, that's for serious.


Now lets do god's work

Unvote:
Vote: Yosarian

HEAHEHAHEHAHAHEHAHAEHEA

Why? Yosarian's recent posts are very pro-town.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS HARD I SAID IT WASNT WORTH MY BRAIN POWER WHICH IS FOCUSED ON FINDING FUCKING SCUM

LIKE YOU

WHOS USED THE LAST 5 POSTS TO TALK ABOUT MATH

DONT THINK ILL FUCKING FORGET

Math contributes to the mechanics of this game and is very important to understand to play the game, Almost as important as finding scum.

Hey guys, guess why I said playing low cards was dumb and suggested a numbers claim.

You'll never believe the coincidence.

Suggesting a number claim is anti-town regardless of whether you could combine cards or not.

Unvote

No counterclaims day 1, period. I figured scum going down would claim one of our confirmed in-game roles, so this isn't a surprise, but basically a town doctor is more-or less completely unblockable now (as I don't see a reason for T-Andrius to pitch less than 20-some points tonight) scum are either going to have to shoot around him, shoot him, or we're sitting here wondering why a doctor is alive on day 2/3.

Also there are plenty of fucking reasons to be voting him, Yos. He'd done jack shit except lurk and make vague threats (don't call for Zang's lynch, because that's what scum would do, lol).

As for Yos... welp.

Twist my arm. No, really, twist my arm (confirmed town Andrius, lol)

Vote: Yosarian

No, Yosarian has been doing a lot. More than most of the players in this game at least.

How do you like 195? That's like the definition of talking a lot and saying very little -_-

Please respond to the posts that llamarble pointed out as good posts and explain why they aren't.

Blatant and repeatedly doing nothing.

Telling me in the first post that it was scummy (or 'what Fate-scum does') to vote for Zang on the basis that he's scummy and worth lynching or shooting pretty much always, then using basically exactly that argument here, and doing basically nothing besides discussing Darox (he's a VI or scum, hur dur) and Lurc (he's uh... not a VI and not scum I guess?).

Oh yeah and offering me his same pointless piece of advice about Fate-scum that he always does.

Woo contributions.

I still wanna lynch him, honestly, but it's not going to happen due to the PR claim, and I'm not going to play 'outguess Zoraster on how many protective roles are in a game where powers don't work all the time.' Having two more protective roles or something claim today would be fucking awful, and it's not like claimed doctors are known for their long lives when they're town.

He was right though it is scummy and Andrius is posting more now so why do you still want him lynched? Also, Why didn't you say this when you voted for him?

Also, You still haven't answered my question.

Vote: GreyICE

I don't want a claim from Yos. This one I want to see to a lynch, I'm most confident about it

(For reals this time I mean for REALS.)

No, this is completely terrible. No matter how much you are sure of somebody being scum, you should always let them claim regardless of whether you think you will believe it or not.

Fos: Fate

[Zang]

If anything that makes you more scummy.

[Zang]

CES, why'd you vote Andrius?

Shush you. You're supposed to let me get away with the bandwagonning like the rest are doing.

Unvote, vote: LLD

CES could also be scum.

I've never actually been in a game with Yos_town.

That's besides the point.

I'd be down for a LLD wagon since Darox isn't going anywhere near the gallows.

Unvote, Vote: LLD

You just criticized your wagon for having no reason to vote you so now you go and join a wagon and post no reasons for voting them?

[Zang]

Zang: nope. i have reasons.
reason being she voted me for having no reason so im voting her with the reason being her voting without reasons is that reason enough?
and llama's part on her was awesome.

Ok, That's a good reason.

Yos, you should join the LLDwagon.

GreyICE is scummier and I don't want to get somebody at L-1 unless I'm sure that I want them lynched.

[Zang]

Anyway, yes, at least one doctor. Which means that if there is no other doctor, then Andreus must be it. If there is another doctor, then he may or may not be a doctor.

I agree with your case but a protective role doesn't have to be a doctor.

[Zang]

Don't try and take the high ground here Yos. "Gave me a chance?" Bullshit. You were going to vote me regardless of what I said. .

You have no reason to assume that.

[Zang]

A lady lambdadelta lynch is seeming much more appealing now but I'm going to wait for a votecount before I vote for her.

I never voiced any suspicion of Andrius before that vote. True story.

(I'm also still not very suspicious)

So why did you vote for him?

[Zang]

Why did you claim?

[Zang]

I hate how much claiming we're doing today but it is understandable.

My vote is going to stay on GreyICE who still has not answered my question.

[Zang]

I can understand the benefit of a massclaim but I think the scum would benefit more from it. I'll claim though if the town thinks it is best.

Fate's super awesome plan for victory:

Lynch Zang, NO FUCKING HESITATION OR QUESTIONS OR FUCKING CLAIMS THIS TIME. I DONT GIVE A FUCK IF HES THE BULLETPROOF HE IS A WASTE OF A SLOT
D2: Massclaim. Sort the shit out and purge with fire

I'M A WASTE OF A SLOT? All you have been doing is randomly voting people and other stuff that is not pro-town at all. It's because of you that we have three claimed power roles on day 1.

I would vote for you but GreyICE is

still ignoring me

So if the bulletproof doesn't get counterclaimed, it's a BULLETPROOF INNOCENT CHILD.
And if it does get counterclaimed then it's basically a free dead scum, unless we think there are 2 town ones.

So no way in HELL do we have:
Cop (Probably better than without the game mechanic)
Doctor (weakened somewhat)
Bulletproof innocent childish dude (whoah)
Even night vig (Probably better than without the game mechanic (can shoot through scumprotects and can fail to kill townies)
Tracker (weakened somewhat at finding scum but can unambiguously confirm the doc, the cop, and the vig)
All as town.
There was the whole N0 thing, but even for a 12p mini that amount of power is ridiculous

If the town bulletproof is confirmed then wouldn't it just be counterclaimed by scum?

I'm flat out saying I'll buy and eat all the hats that have ever existed if both Yos and Andrius are town.

HOWEVER BLOOD CONTRACT

Unvote, Vote: Zang

You're playing just as bad as fate if not worse. Since he replaced him, all you have been doing is mindlessly sheeping him making his votes even worse.

This also applies to CES and Darox both to a lesser extent.

I don't really buy LLD just claiming for a one-day stay of execution and guaranteeing an autolynch later when Yos could've been lynched without her having to claim at all.
Nor do I buy scum extra kill + N0.
So yeah, Yos or Andy is scum.
But if we leave both alive scum must either narrow it down for us or shoot VTs and LLD can confirm herself as town.
(I think Andy should protect LLD on a high number)
VOTE: GreyICE

Why are you voting GreyICE? As much as I agree with your vote, you've given no reasoning.

[Zang]

Vote: GreyICE

I think that lurc's claim actually makes sense with yosarian's.

[Zang]

LLD, you're confirmed town because your claimed ability didn't work last night?

Also, how is lurc confirmed scum?

[Zang]

LLD, you're confirmed town because your claimed ability didn't work last night?

Also, how is lurc confirmed scum?

[Zang]

I'm conf town because I was RB'd by scum last night.

Lurc is scum for CCing Yos town tracker. No way does town have TWO trackers.

That makes absolutely no sense. How does being roleblocked make you confirmed town? It doesn't, if anything it should make you less likely to be town because you can't prove your claim.

That doesn't make lurc confirmed scum. If he was confirmed as in absolutely, without a doubt, 100% scum then there could be no way that he is town which is impossible. It could be likely that he is scum but unless you know something that the town doesn't, he can't be confirmed scum.

I'm pretty sure I previously said that.

[Zang]

You should both calm down.

Vote: Lady Lambdadelta

I'm really tired of being ignored.

[Zang]

General Rules

Overall

1.

Unless stated otherwise by the moderator or in these rules, the follow are controlling:

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... Game_Rules

Harassment of an individual player is NOT permitted. It is the nature of the game that players will be antagonistic toward each other at times. However, it should always be kept in the spirit of a game.

I really think this is too much.

[Zang]

Fate, you called lurc scum several times.

Vote: GreyICE

[Zang]

V/LA until sunday

[Zang]

I said that I was V/LA.

[Zang]

I'm back, I'll read and have a huge wall post up by tommorow.

[Zang]

This game isn't going anywhere and based on current events, I'm more likely to believe that seraphim is scum rather then grey.

Vote: Seraphim

[Zang]

For everybody that said I should have hammered sooner:

Main Entry: va·ca·tion
Pronunciation: \vā-ˈkā-shən, və-\
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English vacacioun, from Anglo-French vacacion, from Latin vacation-, vacatio freedom, exemption, from vacare
Date: 14th century
1 :

a respite or a time of respite

from something : intermission
2 a : a scheduled period during which activity (as of a court or school) is suspended b :

a period of exemption from work

granted to an employee
3 :

a period spent away

from home or business in travel or recreation <had a restful vacation at the beach>

[Zang]

I think that my play in this game was great. I also never really lurked, that was a real V/LA and if I didn't have the oppurtunity to hammer, I would have made a huge catch up post.

My distancing with GreyICE really didn't have anything to do with alignment. I just really don't like him.