Mini 1228: 80's Mafia: Everyone wins. (Mod error)

[haoala]

/confirm

@Maruchan - to what purpose?

[haoala]

Very well Maruchan. You are not confirmed town to me.

My gut says the two of you are scum doing something either incredibly clever or stupid. But I'm gonna reread your phrasing and see.

Are we still doing the massclaiming thing?

[haoala]

I have come to the conclusion that DRK is wrapping Maruchan around her fingers. Take a look:

So Maruchan, you're town. Everyone knows this because..well...the mod told all of us that in our role PMs.

It sounds like a joke gone too far. In fact, my initial thought was that DRK was reaction fishing.

However, if anyone can corroborate DRK's statement I will be happy to reexamine my beliefs.

Why won't massclaiming our year work? We still can look out for duplicate years.

I'm 1989.

[haoala]

How do you know that? On another note, why did you claim?

[haoala]

Wasn't obvious to me. Show me

[haoala]

10a) says that flavor is flavor. Do you think the year-massclaim is useful in this case?

[haoala]

Guessing some form of role that involves them having to act like a fool. JS.

No, no compulsory fools here.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... start=3096

But he still can do it on his own accord.

[haoala]

DRK and Maruchan are a faction whose aim is to get lynched. Like, 'jestermasons'. Explains everything.

Did you read my post 51?

[haoala]

Care to explain your vote?

[haoala]

Agreed, but it is still pre-game. Let's see if he keeps this behaviour up.

[haoala]

So basically you think the mod-confirmed thing is a ploy?

[haoala]

Maruchan, role info or not, is obv-town and, unlike you, he has actually been looking for scum. But I'll humor you for a second. Your previous post implied that you've called Maruchan's actions scummy before and I believe you 254%. Can you just remind me where you did so?

This is nonsense.
1. Maruchan admitted that he wasn't looking for scum.
2. ISO Umbrage. He's been calling Maruchan scummy all along.

Very suspicious, DRK.

[haoala]

1. Post 102
2. Post 25, 77

Ok maybe 2 isn't so convincing but I got that impression from him earlier in the game.

[haoala]

CC, now that you're here, what do you think of how the game has progressed so far?

[haoala]

DRK

1. So, where was Maruchan scumhunting?
2. Well it surprised me that you jumped at him for not calling Maruchan scum earlier, when it appears to me that he had.

[haoala]

@Haoala - The only notable thing that's happened is DRK's town thing on Maru, which hasn't really done too much for me, other than give me a townread on Maru.
I'll be very happy when the game starts so we can start doing stuff

So you believe DRK's claim?

[haoala]

Mego is scum. Making up specific numbers is scummy. Really pushing the DRK thing as a ploy seems forcefully distracting.

Have you any experience playing with DRK?

[haoala]

So the best play from here would be to lynch DRK today?

[haoala]

According to CC, you have a 50% chance of being scum. Statistically, lynching you would be wiser than lynching anyone else. That's the situation at this point.

[haoala]

@DRK
I was referring to his options 1&4, and "statistically" referring to the general case, not this game in particular.

Why are you afraid of getting lynched if it confirms Maruchan town?

@Bogre
I know, shhhh

[haoala]

Ah.... probability fallacy there.

Saying someone is either scum or not does -not- make it a 50% chance they are scum.

You jumped on Mego for using numbers, but not me. Why not?

[haoala]

No, not really.

On a separate note, he has experience playing with you, while Bogre does not.

Tell me more about numbers.

[haoala]

@haoala
I tend to object to mislynching without any gain. Especially when I know it will be a mislynch.

A confirmed town isn't any gain?

[haoala]

Surely

you saw that one.

[haoala]

Actually I'm very

pure

.

[haoala]

Purely

[haoala]

Hello? You were the one who first suggested lynching DRK. I'm not even pushing for her lynch. I'm exploring the possibilities.

If Maruchan is conf town as you all seem to agree, then as PGO why would he ask people to target him? Btw, when roleblocker targets PGO who wins?

[haoala]

Exactly. You're not overtly pushing the lynch, you're testing the waters. You want to know which way town will go before you make a firm stance.

My intention was to see how DRK responds, not so much the whole town. Notice how I directed it towards her.

@Diddin - reason for voting? (And my name is haoala)

[haoala]

Curious to find out how she would respond to the proposal of lynching her.

You think Mego is casual and jokey, but not Nikanor?

[haoala]

And Mego is

trying

?

[haoala]

Exactly. You're not overtly pushing the lynch, you're testing the waters. You want to know which way town will go before you make a firm stance.

My intention was to see how DRK responds, not so much the whole town. Notice how I directed it towards her.

@Diddin - reason for voting? (And my name is haoala)

Just look at your ISO.

I still want your reasons. To me you're just sheeping.

I also wanted

Nikanor

to explain his but I don't think I'd get anything serious out of it. Or will I?

[haoala]

1. Show me the questions.
2. "idk maybe?" - so you aren't sure whether I'm scum?

[haoala]

Nikanor is so jokey he goes beyond jokey. He's on speed or something. Regardless, his attitude is honest. He's not TRYING to be silly, he IS silly.

Oh and this is nonsense. I caught you tunneling on Mego, and you say Nikanor is "beyond jokey".

[haoala]

idk if you'd consider my answer serious, because for some reason nobody takes my scumhunting style seriously. >_>
Also here you go (yes, I'm amazing).

I want the questions that you say are inquisitive.

[haoala]

EBWOP: inquisitive for inquisitiveness' sake, to be precise.

[haoala]

It looks like fakescumhunting.

And I admit I have not been scumhunting much so far but that's because I hadn't gotten a scumread on anyone yet. But there is someone who is drawing my attention.

[haoala]

On the other hand, CC has seen me play as scum, when he was town. (Why did you fail to mention this, and what do you think of me now?)

I think he is playing differently this time. He isn't usually so accusatory nor unhelpful. My gut says no on him.

@CC, Someone is suspicious, but if I raise his/her name at this point that would warn him/her, wouldn't it? Anything wrong with waiting to confirm my suspicion? And this person isn't you.

@2birds, if they are scumbuddies I think there are sure to be tells in their initial conversation where DRK revealed "Maruchan is conf-town". I read it and it seems clean. Either that or they're really really good liars.

[haoala]

I don't get your bolding Umbrage.

[haoala]

Umbrage, answer please.

Also to the unsuredness.

UNVOTE: VOTE HAOALA

You've been involved in the game a DAMN lot to not have a scumread yet.

What's wrong with unsuredness? What's scummy about not having a scumread yet (and I do have several now, FYI)?

Keep in mind the last time I played with you was the newbie queue, which requires a little more understanding than anywhere else.

Elaborate please.

[haoala]

You will see that I'm about to post a case against someone. I'm not wagoning.

[haoala]

VOTE: Umbrage

1. Very trigger happy. Has voted 5 times today. 4 of which are non-random.

2. I think the reasoning about Mego being scum because he's jokey but not Nikanor because he's too jokey is rubbish. I pointed this out but he has not responded to this.

3. 241 shows that basically he will accuse anything and everything that his accussee does.

4.

Haoala wagon is better than Mego wagon.

Yet he ends up changing his vote to Mego. Which means that he did not mean the above. Inconsistent.

5.

Mego... hm. I get the feeling he's scum.

Nothing concrete to support this

, he just seems a little too casual and jokey. Consider this an FoS, but I'm sticking with my haoala vote for now.

Nothing much has changed since then, and still he votes Mego eventually. If you thought we were scumbuddies, why not keep your vote on me? Or is it difficult for you to remain consistent, since you know we are not scumbuddies?

6. His last 6 posts have contributed nothing, beginning from here. It's been a lot of screaming "haoala & Mego are scumbuddies!"

@Diddin, please answer this.

[haoala]

CC, do you now understand why I waited to post my case? Had I done it earlier, points 3,4 & 5 are non-existent.

Umbrage, this case is not "sudden". I said before that I was suspecting somebody, you.

1. a) We were way out of RVS when the game started. b) Your votes certainly did not look random. I think people will agree with me on these two points.
4. That is a blatant, blatant lie. Bogre voted me, yet change your vote 3 posts later.

6. wasn't addressed, I assume you agree with me.

[haoala]

Before, when I said I had suspicion on "someone" (Umbrage), it was based on gut. I needed concrete evidence to build a case. Is that very scummy?

@CC, let me get this right, if I didn't post a case, I would be scummy, but since I did, I'm also scummy?

[haoala]

No jesters. 51

What was scummy about the way I formed the case?

[haoala]

My name is haoala. No, 2birds, that is not true. I asked the first question because I didn't know what he wanted to massclaim the year for. Wouldn't you be curious yourself? I asked the second question because I thought no one doing it anymore (Pg 2 had no claims). On rereading, I realised that I was the one who stopped the claiming, my bad.

The people who have claimed:
Parabollocks (1980)
Mego (1980)
Maruchan (1983)
Nikanor (1983)
Umbrage (1984)
DRK (1986)
haoala (1989)

There were 2 pairs, therefore I think it is likely that "one-townie-per-year" is untrue.

I'm not liking 2birds' 293.

[haoala]

That would make 11 townies. Unless you're saying a year was skipped.

And there are 2 pairs of people with the same years so far. Are you saying one of the 4 is scum?

I don't think the mod did it like that.

[haoala]

Mego+Nikanor+you scumteam?

pwned

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[haoala]

Then there should be someone CCing my year, agreed?

[haoala]

And if Nikanor was really scum, why would he choose a year which you, a "confirmed townie", have already taken? Especially when you explained the reason behind your massclaim suggestion.

Before you say it, I'm not defending him, I'm pointing out the illogicality of your conclusion.

[haoala]

No, he claimed his song which I wikied to find the year. I would've thought you'd seen that since you were re-reading the early game. Grasping at straws much?

[haoala]

In order of claiming:

Parabollocks (1980)
Umbrage (1984)
DRK (1986)
Mego

(1980)

Maruchan (1983)
Nikanor

(1983)

haoala (1989)
benoni (1981)
zajnet (1982)

If Nikanor turns out to be miller though, either Maruchan is scum (and so is DRK), or one-townie-per-year is busted.

[haoala]

In the meantime, care to claim?

[haoala]

How is requesting a votecount scummy?

[haoala]

That is plausible. What you're saying is that he wanted to vote, but didn't dare to, and instead asked for a vote count instead to appear helpful?

Also I saw that only 2 votes had been made since the last vote count, so there was no real reason for another votecount so soon.

[haoala]

No, I like my vote to stay on Umbrage. I am also waiting to see what Parabollocks has to say.

[haoala]

A player's behavior is not inherently scummy. It is only by applying meta knowledge of the player to their behavior that allows the behavior to be classified as scummy or not. Not all players act the same, even with identical roles. Therefore, saying one behavioral quirk is scummy for all players is logically impossible, because there will be at least one player who acts that way as town.

You haven't played any games on site, and you expect people to judge you based on meta? I.e., nobody can call you scum this game because you have no meta?

Wow, quoting now auto-links the post. SWEET. Also noticed that you can ISO multiple people simultaneously. Who do I thank for the continual adding of features?

[haoala]

Diddin is scummy for not wanting to claim.

[haoala]

I claim 1987.
Also, I think it's time I put down a vote, it's doing absolutely nothing where it is.
VOTE: Haoala
This is for mainly his case on Umbrage. While he raises some good points, the way in which he created the case was scummy. Waiting for the posts to come out for his case? Not telling us who he suspected? =/ These are not things beneficial to the town.

Before, when I said I had suspicion on "someone" (Umbrage), it was based on gut. I needed concrete evidence to build a case. Is that very scummy?

[haoala]

CC thinks it's good. As for the second statement, I can't convince you if you refuse to believe me.

I'll ask you a question similar to the one I asked CC. If I had not posted the case, you would call me scum for not having suspicions, but now that I did, I'm scummy also?

[haoala]

Also noticed you haven't claimed your year.

[haoala]

VOTE: diddin

How on earth is year-claiming distracting us from scumhunting?

For the record, I think I've done more scumhunting than you have.

You are scum, and you don't want to claim. You are distracting us from real scumhunting.

[haoala]

Mego, answer.

[haoala]

Nikanor

:
Wacky, insane, completely off-the-handle the whole game. The only time he made an attempt to act sane was trying to get a wagon on me started, and when he just pointed out how yearclaiming is actually helpful for town.

Summary

: Unlike DRK, Nikasilly is scum.

Mego... hm. I get the feeling he's scum. Nothing concrete to support this, he just seems a little too casual and jokey.

If Nikanor is scum because he is acting silly, you are too.

[haoala]

Isn't reflex vig = PGO?

[haoala]

haolalala i am the only one allowed to post unsuppoeted rhetoic stfu!!!

You can call me haoalalalala but please put the A before the L.
And I wasn't accusing you.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Motivator

[haoala]

ALL town prs? No exceptions (other than those you listed? Are you very sure about this?

[haoala]

Mego

, why are you not answering this question?!?

Mego, answer.

You're asking for too much trust. You're reflex something and who knows what? VOTE: Maruchan

You don't think he's town?

But trust me. They really should all visit me.

Especially a tracker. if a tracker visits me i'll lulz so hard.

That pretty much confirms that he works by reflex.

Like I said, if I am RBed, I will find you.
And I will kill you.

If you think I am joking, I am not.

Will your strategy still be gamebreaking if you are RBed?

[haoala]

I'm sorry if I'm missing something huge but you have no completed games on-site?

[haoala]

claim year, 2birds.

Maybe Maruchan should just reveal what he is, since he's likely to be targetted by mafia tonight anyway, having proclaimed that he has a "gamebreaking" strategy. If we have a doc, great, if we don't, too bad.

Maruchan, would this be bad for your plan?

[haoala]

don't forget benoni who voted Maruchan.

[haoala]

Maybe not reflex role cop, but reflex cop? That would be good.

Why don't we let Maruchan decide if should out or not?

@CC, have you reread the "Maruchan is town" thing? What's your take on it?

[haoala]

^If you meant "reflex cop", I think it is good because it would be a list of all the confirmed townies (which would be, ideally, 10 minus the few who shouldn't). Gamebreaking anyway.

Why have recent events made you change your mind?

[haoala]

Just an update
In order of claiming,
Parabollocks

(1980)

Umbrage

(1984)

DRK (1986)
Mego

(1980)

Maruchan

(1983)

Nikanor

(1983)

haoala (1989)
benoni (1981)
zajnet (1982)
CC (1987)
Bogre (1986)
2birds

(1984)

diddin, if scum, will probably claim the last year left (1989). Which busts the one-townie-per-year theory.

On the other hand, diddin, if you are town, are you able to bust the theory for us? (I'm not asking you to claim year here, although if you are unable to bust that theory that pretty much reveals your year)

2birds' claim pretty much confirms him as town.

[haoala]

claim year, 2birds.

Maybe Maruchan should just reveal what he is, since he's likely to be targetted by mafia tonight anyway, having proclaimed that he has a "gamebreaking" strategy. If we have a doc, great, if we don't, too bad.

Maruchan, would this be bad for your plan?

slightly, although not detrimental. It would be better I think if scum were wary of me and not sure what to expect.

I'd like more, since you say it's not detrimental.

inb4 somebody calls me out for rolefishing.

P-Edit: I've played with 2birds before.

[haoala]

And if using the years leads anywhere, a Nikanor-Umbrage-(Parabollocks or Mego) scumteam is plausible.

[haoala]

Shot Through the Heart, 1984, and if two more people support the massclaim idea, I'll reveal role.

He claimed when not asked to.

Based on meta I think he's townish as well.

[haoala]

So either devilishly cunning scum or honest town.

[haoala]

What, is she also confirmed town to you?

[haoala]

Yeah, my song is from 1983, let's blow a hole in this idea now.

Gah I also forgot that scum would say that too.

This is a vanillaless game, I honestly doubt there's gonna be a way to break it.

I thought that's precisely why a gamebreaking strategy is possible.

[haoala]

The only way it can be ruined s if a role which I am 80% sure is IN this game, is not in this game. And if that is true, then tomorrow I will tell you it doesn't work, and I will claim if still asked. If I get roleblocked, it will take 1 extra day.

So we have a 80% chance of failure. Wow.

If DRK is town, he would not have lied and made up a gambit on a random, otherwise that is trolling.

I disagree.

I actually don't disagree with that vote so much. where is my vote now?

Why don't you vote?

I really, really don't buy his last couple of posts.

Care to elaborate?

Yes, I will be lynched by everyone who thinks I'm scummy. Oh wait, that's just you and Mego. Nevermind then.

Don't forget me, I placed the first vote on you.

(no offence to you Maru, but I do believe the majority of the town wasn't/isn't willing to put that much trust in your plan)

I disagree.

So much screaming, so much AtE, so much vote-hopping. VOTE: Umbrage

[haoala]

Oops misread.

If you get roleblocked, will you claim if asked?

[haoala]

Point being?

[haoala]

^^^

What?

Umbrage's posts 528 & 530 are laughable. My turn to LOL.

One more thing:

DRK, either agree to be lynched or stop saying Maruchan is town, 'K?

Umbrage, either agree to be lynched or stop saying Maruchan is town, 'K?

Neat find.

[haoala]

What's AtR?

You seem to know that she's town. Eh?

[haoala]

Umbrage. Post your case on Mego, or Haoala, or whoever your top scumread is. No messing around, no AtE.

There, it implies that you know Umbrage is town. (And he's a he)

[haoala]

Your favourite townie hammered.

[haoala]

VOTE: diddin
But I think BBmolla YOU are the 3rd scum. You really think I'm scum? I pushed the first case against Umbrage. Their votes make you "pretty sure" I'm scum???

You should really be saying that I'm obvtown, but you're not, because you need someone to blame.

I would vote you if were weren't lynching BBmolla today.

No mass claims are required you rolefisher.

Parabollocks was a scummy player - I'm just about to post a case against him.

[haoala]

I'll let the others decide if I was "distancing" or actually accusing.

Look at 597. Look at your phrasing. You are distancing from diddin, because he is obvscum.

Could you explain the purpose of the mass claim in simpler terms. I don't get it.

[haoala]

Oh great. I assume you did that because I was onto your partner?

And I apologise to town for allowing him to self-hammer. I didn't realise I put him at L-1.

[haoala]

lol mod this must be your fastest day ever.

[haoala]

I might die tonight but I'd like to post my case against Parabollocks. He is a repeated year (so was Umbrage). You are probably going to flame me for this but realise that it is more likely that repeated year are scum. In addition, Parabollocks claimed prematurely.

Secondly, in post 284 he says "Umbrage logic > yours" when Umbrage had none at all, and also he requests a votecount which Nikanor already pointed out is scummy.

In 325 umbrage subtly defends him against Nikanor.
In 326 he votes Mego (jumping on bandwagon)

[haoala]

Regarding all the votes on me: There is one person in this game whose innocence I can prove, and who can prove mine.

Unfortunately, they have yet to show up.

Lynch me if you wish, but consider this in your decisions.

You guys might want to use this to confirm the other mason(s).

[haoala]

K yeah

Diddin is scum

If we're right about Diddin,

which I'm pretty sure we are

, I suggest a mass claim tomorrow.

Also,

pretty sure

haoala is scum #3.

^Look at the phrasing. Lynch him tomorrow please.

[haoala]

Nice try. I don't see how that could come from town, though.

I would vote you if were weren't lynching BBmolla today.

EBWOP: I would vote you if were weren't lynching diddin today.

[haoala]

It wasn't the right thing to do because we could have had more discussion. Why is an apology scummy?

[haoala]

That would mean there are 4 scum.

[haoala]

Feel free to lynch either of us, I cannot guaruntee I'll flip town but I'm 100% sure he will.

FTFY

[haoala]

What? I didn't expect it.

[haoala]

I should have counted the votes before putting him at L-1 and thus allowing the self hammer.

[haoala]

I'm sorry to hear that. I think this pains you more than any of us.

Kudos to the greatly written scenes.

[haoala]

No chance of salvaging the game?

[haoala]

Maru i listened to you!!! (lol)