Mini #1004 - Popularity Mafia (Over)

[VasudeVa]

Hey, I'm the new guy. Welcome me. (Hi Andy~).

Be reading and posting thoughts soon.

[VasudeVa]

I have a history with Andrius. If I get lynched D1, he's scum. COUNT ON IT.

Will catch up after lunch. (I'm on a weird timezone so.).

[VasudeVa]

OMG REREAD MEGAPOST

Page 1:

Andrius soft claiming his PR for discussion. Nice. And it fits with his 'I like strategizing' meta.
I don't like how Prana auto-FOSed it when he is in a theme game with a mechanic. Townie trigger fingers? We'll see.
I like Friend's open-mindedness. Not really Townie, but it suggests wisdom which is a benefit for Town if he is one of us.

Page 2:

volk #26: Or, if scum were competent/confident, they can mislead/plant suspicion. Either way, I think scum would take advantage of the mechanic too.
Ugh. Tasky.

I like the Popularity MC. Would've suggested it if I were in this game earlier.

Page 3:

Nicol making excuses at his first post makes me think he'll be making lots of them, especially at his QT interpretations.

Ewww @ Tasky's Selfvote.

What the eff is with that vote on a reasonable first post? Succumbing to pressure?

Page 4:

Xite's posts (specifically #82) feel like he's posting without thinking.

Page 5:

More of Tasky's 'I didn't mean that I meant blabla'. He does have difficulty expressing himself.

Okay, Friend screams alt right about now. Are you? More importantly, did you get that name from 20th Century Boys? <3.

Hmmm. Max's #116. My initial reaction is 'what a cocky SOB.' But I do know of some of his games when I was archive lurking way back when. At any rate, his post is intelligent and I do agree with it.

Xite is now cruising at VI territory. See how different his play is from Tasky's. Tasky's play is very defensive, and you can totally see some attempt at manipulation. Xite seems too agressive for newbscum. I'd think newbscum would be afraid of stepping on toes, especially of experienced and skilled players(like volkan.).

Page 6:

Okay, I have no idea what Andy means with popularity being non-random. My 'flavor' role makes sense with my popularity rank.

Xite seems like a newbie who genuinely believes in the stuff he's spewing. Myep.

I don't think Friend is buddying. I don't know why Prana agrees with that.

Page 7:

Tasky and NB's argument is not interesting. Both of them not understanding each other (NB's 'let me clarify my stance'), Tasky being...tasky. I don't get an innocent newb vibe from Tasky at all. There is certainly some malice in his play.

Volkan finally gets some Player points. I wasn't convinced at first because of him stating some pretty disagreeable things (#26, for example.) but it looks like he can explain himself and even explain others well.

Page 8:

Friend's 'It's too soon to be claiming' does not sit well with me at all.

Oh hey, there's me, being cool and awesome with a cool first post and promising a reread... WHICH I TOTALLY DELIVERED

----
Conclusion:
Tasky is a reasonable lynch.

I am against lynching Xite.

I am slighly suspicious of Friend.(Although this might be me being subconciously affected by Xite's ramblings.)

I think that if we have a competent scumbag, it'll be Sando.

-----

I'd like people to pay special attention to how people 'phrase' things, how good they are at expressing themselves etc.:

- Because in a QT heavy game, there will be alot of....witness testimonies if you will. Unlike normal games wherein posts #'s are easily available for direct proof, here we will rely on 'Andy said blablabla therefore I think he's <alignment>'. The main difference is we are not underoath, so scum can easily..change their interpretations, town can misinterpret etc. So some attention to the PLAYER is needed.

---

+- Player Points are related to my above explanation. Note that these DO NOT have any indication to alignment, just my interpretation on players on how well their future QT witness testimonies can be trusted(ala, Phoenix Wright. )

+ Points for volkan for proving himself to be a good interpreter.
+ Points for Max for being an experienced player. I'd think his interpretations of QTs will be good because of his experience.
+ Points for Friend as an impressionable openminded player.

- Points for Andy because he seems to not be able to properly express himself in 1 post evidenced by people continously asking him 'Wait what?'. Sorry Andy~
- Points for Prana's itchy trigger fingers.
- Points for Xite for posting without thinking.
- Points for Tasky for being unable to use words properly and being...awkward in his explanations.

[VasudeVa]

It's something I quickly thought up because of the whole 'Personal' QT thing. I do think it'll be kinda useless, but I'm putting it out there anyway. It's an idea I thought up of and I don't like wasting ideas (even useless ones xD.).

[VasudeVa]

@Andy: It's the 'not opt to' and the nonrandom point + some of my previous experience with you. Some of your points have to be explained before people understand what you meant by it rather than having it clear with one post.

Why would you be 'pissed' if Tasky was quickhammered?

@Max: Why petal? (No, really.)

1. PranaDevil is above me. He isn't exactly townie, but not (yet) scum either. His Andrius FoS and his 'IGMEOY Volkan' are some of his current actions I'm keeping my eye on, which could be either a protown 'keep an eye on this dude' warning or a scummy 'I'll plant suspicion' move. Other than that null. It depends on his actions from here-on which will make me decide which is which.
2. Tasky
3. A matchup between you and volkan. I am keeping my eye on Volkan though, through Prana's suggestion.

Sando is more on gut right now. When I was posting my conclusions, I thought of the game and it's players as a whole and Sando came to mind. He seemed skilled and his aggressiveness was off putting. Sando vs Tasky was similar to one game of mine where skilled scum(SpyreX) pressured a newbie into slipping up until his lynch. I should have put that there somewhere though. Rereading in depth does that to you.

Why does that 'greatly interest' you?

Vote: Tasky

@Prana: Why are you not able to spot tells from each other even if you had previous experience with each other?

[VasudeVa]

@Friend: Tunneling is only scummy when the tunneler has a grasping/bad case or if he is being thick-headed about it but this truly depends on the type of player the tunneler is. I think that if Xite was doing a scummy tunnel, he would be a little less eager due to fear of being lynched. His play lacks the newbscum cautiousness that I'm looking for.

---

I'm feeling temporarily tired of the Tasky case(Although he is a fine deadline lynch.) and I want to see where a Friend wagon would take us. Plus the Tasky wagon reeks of scum, possibly 2 of them in here(Right now, I'm thinking its Sando and Friend.). And I do not see anyone(bar me, as of this post) defending him.

I'm not a fan of forced dichotomies (The 'Between me and xite who is scummier') which I see as a possible attempt to get Andrius on his side of the argument, and the back and forth vote hopping to two lynchbaits (Tasky and Xite.). I actually think that Town would just ignore Xite, but the 'between me and xite' post (and maybe the tunneling accusation) makes me think he's fearing the pressure.

Plus he's totally buddying with his username and avatar. /sarcasm

Vote: Friend

---

@Volk: It's my way of saying that future witness testimonies have to account the skill of the player. Right now, the point of it isn't clear, but I'll be using it when we get to the nitty gritty of the neighborizing mechanic.

[VasudeVa]

These replacements are anti-fun. D:

[VasudeVa]

@Ray: Friend - Rather uncomfortable buddying sort of implied in his playstyle.
Sando: Being very aggressive towards lynchbait. (Tasky, maybe Andy).

---

I am liking Ray, for now who's behaving like how Town would/should replace in.

Sando's sudden shift in gears is something to look at. But at least his reasons seem very well justified.

Prana's hop is basically a longer version of 'I agree with Sando/Ray: VOTE' which gives me the heebie jeebies. The fact that it is longer and is filled with useless fluff rather than just what I said makes me think he wants to disguise his opportunism.

Let us run it through VasudeVa Bullshit Detector!

Holy sweet jesus and finally some activity Batman!

Attempts at humor, could be used to disguise malice.

-------
Andrius, I was pretty much content with ignoring you day one and looking back on you later, solely because my previous experience with you was such that it was nigh on impossible to work out if you were town or scum as you played the VI role to perfection, and I admit, the chances of you doing so again are likely.

'Guys, you won't regret lynching this guy. He won't help you out anyway, he's a VI a detriment to Town. By telling you this, I am absolving my hands off his Town flip!'

I would take the time to show a nice big case on you, but not only is there little point as Sando and RayFrost have done the leg work while I was busy dreaming about some nice busty women, but it's also pretty much immediately before my posting. However for ISO purposes, I shall instead link directly to Ray and Sando's cases on you.

Sando's - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2385133
Ray's - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2385249

There's not really much more to say on that wagon that hasn't already been said.

Here's a nice little excuse for me to hop along this wagon which seems to be picking up steam! I tried to make it as long as possible, even giving you guys links and shit.

------

unvote; vote: Andrius

But in saying and doing that. I'm not lowering my suspicion on RC in the slightest, if anything his most recent post makes me even more concerned about him. Not only did his reason for voting Andrius be that he could "smell a good wagon" (Which signifies what? Just jumping onto a wagon he could sense was town but might go through easily? Possible. That he thinks Andrius is scum, RC is town, and he just wants any lynch day 1? Possible but anti-town. Knows Andrius is scum thanks to other info? I'm leaning that way), but he also hasn't responded to the fact people are saying he needs to post more and has spectacularly failed to actually do anything of actual use in the game up to now.

Oh, and one last thing about RC. I decided to check where people's votes are lying before casting mine on Andrius so I didn't wind up as an accidental hammer... RC unvoted, then voted, normally very good tactics. Why, may I then ask, would he bother doing so when his vote is currently ON Andrius in the first smegging place? RC, either you're town (unlikely in my eyes) playing exceptionally bad and paying zero attention with it, or you're scum (more likely) playing exceptionally bad as you're not even pretending to pay attention to the game.

So yeah, pretty much I'm happy with a lynch of Andrius right now, but I would be just as happy with a lynch of RC too as I feel both are scum.

Long fluffy walls full of bullshit IIoA(...I think? That's IIoA right? Can't really understand that Wiki article >.>) made to make the post look longer and more intimidating. Also, lining up the RC mislynch for D2.

At any rate, this post is malicious as fuck and it ain't goin away without a vote from me.

Vote: Prana

[VasudeVa]

@Ray
On Friend: Just check your predecessor's ISO. He has a lot of very uncomfortable moments with the way he plays. T
On Sando: That was before he jumped to Andy. I actually like his jump to Andy. Still, the scum scent of the Tasky tunnel lingers.

With Andrius: Well, I'll be upfront and honest with you now that I don't want him lynched yet coz we've been wanting to play together for a while now(especially since, in ALL of our games together thus far, one of us gets lynched D1.) But I really can't disagree with both you and Sando's points against him.

I have experienced him play scum twice and so far, isn't really playing like his scumself. He's so obv when he's scum it's kinda cute (See: Greek Mythology, Trader Mafia.). I'll gladly move my vote if/when he becomes scummier.

[VasudeVa]

What I'm attacking you for is that vote post. My scumhunting tactic involves the HOW of an actions because I feel this is more important. The actions themselves are secondary.

My analysis on 'How' you voted andrius is perfectly explained up there: Longer than the usual, absolving yourself from Andy's possible Town flip, trying to set up the RC lynch, fluff posts on RC which don't really help anyone etc.

I did comment on the Andrius wagon(when prompted.).
RC is a little hard to read so I'm reserving comments for now until I get a better grasp on him.

[VasudeVa]

Are you even reading my posts?

I said I was attacking you because your vote post is way different from the generic Town 'I agree with this case' post because it is filled with malicious content(as analyzed by my Vas Bullshit Detector, read the red text~). Your actual vote is 20% of my case, 80% is my hypotheses the scum motivation to type the suspicious paragraphs I have pointed out.

Following a bandwagon is not scummy, but your vote post did not sit right with me and my bullshit detector.
The logic behind it is this: Scum definitely have some 'I'm moving my vote' paranoia because each vote is EVIDENCE.
The way you:
1. Excused yourself by stating that Andy is a detriment to Town by his play style
2. The fact that you needed to explain how you agreed with Sando and Ray
3. Providing links even when not needed (possibly to make it look Town motivated.)
4. Useless walls on a completely unrelated subject (RC) in order to make the post look longer and thus appear more 'helpful'.

All these together strikes me as scum paranoia needing to explain his vote and buff it with seemingly Town walls in order to hide an opportunistic votehop.

[VasudeVa]

V/LA for a 1-3 days,

Catch up real soon.

[VasudeVa]

Quick post from my V/LA:

@Ray: Sooo, it's not okay to support a lynch on someone who I don't think is scum because I've experienced him play scum twice? It's not coasting if I've made it clear why I'm not voting him yet.

@PD: Well they are INTERPRETATIONS because scum will lie about their intentions(duh) and those excuses of yours aren't quite cutting it, plus the way you abrasively defend yourself isn't winning you Town points. I'm following a lead and some gut here to find your alignment, which is skewing a little bit to scum right about now. Convince me that you are Town through your actions not through your explanations.

@Andrius: Oh come on. You know what I mean. . I'm pretty sure you are Town, and you arey my strongest Town read right about now(Since all the other Town reads I have are slightly weaker.) Explanations come when asked.

Reserving comments for Max/Volkan VS Sando for now because I don't have time to review the whole skeedadle.

Where the hell are the other replacements anyhow? D:

[VasudeVa]

What the hell, Reaper? D:

Anyway, quick post telling that my V/LA is over. Tell me if there is anything that requires my immediate attention etc.

[VasudeVa]

I still do not think Andy is scum, those still pursuing him(Ray, volk, Sando), why? I especially find it disturbing that volk is voting for him especially since he has claimed previous experience of Andy's play. I cannot seem to find the post where volk votes Andy in ISO though, but it says so in the last VC...hmm. His last vote in his ISO is for Sando soo...

I am strongly against the Andy case and here is why:
I do not detect any malice from this guy. There is a total lack of a scum mindset in his play and everyone still voting him should be ashamed of themselves. D:. Seriously, ISO him in Greek Mythology and Trader Mafia and compare his ISO here. It's WAAYY different from his play here. He's like extremely malicious with his votes and his attacks as scum, and is constantly trying for a lynch. I don't see it here plus he is playing with a very Townie mindset and I have a feeling it's genuine.

I would seriously be voting for CSL right about now if he didn't replace Xite. But he did, so I'm like damn. But I really really REALLY do not like the 'Let's lynch one of the replacements' and 'Will do a reread tommorrow'(and not delivering.) posts. A good D2 target, IMO.

Don't like bv310 flaking without even posting once though. bv310 posted once in a while when I read him correctly as Town. This is different and I don't like it. Plus Nicol's play leaves nothing to be desired.

vote: bv310

Prevedit: RC, why is it an Andy scum post? Let's compare notes!

[VasudeVa]

Erratum:

Don't like bv310 flaking without even posting once though.

bv310 posted once in a while when I read him correctly as Town. This is different and I don't like it. Plus Nicol's play leaves nothing to be desired.

Ugh.

[VasudeVa]

Yeah, I noticed that. I read him correctly in our last game together though, but I don't like this bv here.

[VasudeVa]

No, I meant 'our' as in 'bv and me'(not including you. In fact, why would you include yourself? Is this another one of them grammar arguments or something!? XD).

I read him correctly in Advance Wars Mafia. He was a particularly cooperative Townie there. Here, I guess he's the bv310 everyone knows about.

[VasudeVa]

Yeah, I'm particularly proud of that. I KEPT THE GAME INTERESTING.

Lol, it's 3pm here where I live. Good night! (Over here, I would be greeting you 'Magandang Hapon!').

-prevedit-
RC: Yeah, well I explained my Town read on Andy a few posts ago. Do you disagree? Why?

[VasudeVa]

I am strongly against the Andy case and here is why:
I do not detect any malice from this guy.

There is a total lack of a scum mindset in his play

and everyone still voting him should be ashamed of themselves. D:. Seriously, ISO him in Greek Mythology and Trader Mafia and compare his ISO here. It's WAAYY different from his play here. He's like extremely malicious with his votes and his attacks as scum, and is constantly trying for a lynch. I don't see it here plus

he is playing with a very Townie mindset and I have a feeling it's genuine.

Examples needed.

Alrighty. Let me introduce you to the... "Andrius scumVotehop".

Vote: Shattered_Viewpoint/ AlmasterGM
Why him/her and not SD, Vas, or Iec?
Simple.
I asked for AlmasterGM's thoughts on any other players, since there is most likely more than one scum here. And since he only focused on VV, then there's cause for concern.
-snip-
You can't take some initiative on your own part, and come up with at least one other scum-suspect?
-snip-
Same to you. You have a grand total of five posts to your name, combined with SV's scarcity; you're not looking active.
-snip-
Can soon be before the D1 deadline?
-snip-
And you just give up and drop it here? Odd.

I still see SD, Iecerint, and VV as scummy, but Almaster's refusing to cooperate or help, besides hit VV, is a red flag in my eyes.

And there's the "hyperbole" lying and not willing to admit his mistake that SV put on.

"Staggeringly similar?" Personally, I feel that your vote on me was weak. You're basing my entire playstyle over your one experience with me where I was, yes, scumboss. Perhaps you should read into my town games as well, and see if I match. Odd. Since we're dwelling on Greek Mythology, you asked for like, half of the player's meta's in D1 of that game. Strange you're not doing it here.

##Vote: VasudeVa And now you're willing to lynch anyone but yourself, to save your own hide. Be like Ooba in Greek Mythos D1, where he was willing to die to kill scum. You seem overly concerned with saving your own butt than hunting scum. You're hunting for a good lynch candidate that isn't you. Play pro-town or be lynched, Vas.

Take note that these examples are Andy's FIRST non-RVS vote hope. You can totally smell the malice and the super scumminess in a lot of his posts. Note, this is just the vote hope, the rest of his scumposts are just as bad, even worse at times(which is why it's kinda cute.).

Not in this game though. The Townie mindset(ie. being the uninformed majority makes you post a little...'lost'. Hmmm..what's the word..) and my feelings of his genuineness are some interpretations I seem to have come up with when I was observing him here in my reread.

---

I just got SC2. Expect less postage. Sorry~

[VasudeVa]

Well, yeah. But my argument is that he is Town. Are you arguing for his policy lynch then?

But that one is totally non-commital plus there are no votes. It's just him being confused, and being expected to 'help' as a townie. Part of the Townie mindset actually. True he is coat tailing, but part of playing Mafia is listening to other peoples cases. You don't have to lead your cases 100% of the time, otherwise lynches are impossible. How is that scummy, hmm?

[VasudeVa]

@Sando: Well I have argued that he is Town. Your #499 reply to my case that Andy = Town seemed policy lynch-esque(ie. That 'What part of Andrius' game is lost' sentence.).

I think Andy has contributed enough(better than some players, at least.). Just because he is not contributing to your standards and is listening to other people's cases does not mean he is maliciously opportunistic. I think part of what makes a mafioso 'scummy' is an inherent malice due to the differing wincons with Town. I do not detect any malice from his 'opportunism', at all.

I totally dislike the fact that you used a policy lynch-esque(meaning lynch him even if he's Town.) argument but then argued that he's scum. Now THAT is malicious as hell. The way you phrased the sentence('What part of Andrius' game is Lost?") makes me think that you know he is Town and that you are still trying to lynch him.

Why would any 'part of Andrius' game' be important if you think he is scum? Why would a Townie use this argument (in exactly the way it is phrased) on someone who he thinks is 'scum'? This type of comment would generally be used on who you think is Town. (Hmmm...Is this making sense? I'm having difficulty finding words to explain. >.>)

Vote: Sando

[VasudeVa]

Ooooohhhh~! I see. I understood it as 'What part of Andrius' game is 'lost'(verb)?' -> Meaning if we lynch Andy, what will we lose? Or something like that. If I were to paraphrase what I understood from you it would be something along the lines of 'What would we lose if we lynch Andrius?'(which is why I thought it was policy lynch-esque).

This is embarrassing. . I thought I actually had a good case there. >.>. My apologies.

Unvote

I'll answer that question after I review my counter case on Andy.

@Ray: Explain.
@Tazaro: You too.

[VasudeVa]

Well, I did say that I misunderstood it. Finding scum is not about whoever makes the most mistakes, its about finding who is inherently more malicious. If my sig doesn't convince you, perhaps you should ISO me in Trader Mafia where we had a long discussion about grammar, gerund phrases and sentence construction.

I really did think I had a good case there, which was why I voted Sando for using words that I understood incorrectly.

[VasudeVa]

Well, it was sure to generate discussion. This whole popularity thing is a major part of the game, so.
So we're all neighborizers, in a way.

Not wanting to rolefish eh? Hm.

Why was he so eager to rolefish; others were hesitant, and he nudged here with his "Not wanting to rolefish eh? Hm." He wants something...

I'll argue against rolefishing as a scumtell.

Anti-Town, yes. Scumtell, no.

The preconception that rolefishing is scumtell would make scum less likely to do it. Yes, it is one of the most anti-town things you can ever do but since everyone and their mother thinks that rolefishing is a scumtell, I don't think scum would openly rolefish especially at the very start of D1. If anything, it's a pretty reliable VI tell. I've seen plenty of VIs(myself included, once.) do it and it was like scum struck oil or something.

I actually think it made Andy slightly lean Town since IIRC, he suggested the popularity claims first.

[VasudeVa]

....Yeah, let's just deadline lynch RC. I prefer his lynch. Pretty good chance of flipping scum actually.

Vote: RC

[VasudeVa]

Actually, I changed my mind.

Vote: Tazaro

. Votehopping between the two largest wagons is like woah.

[VasudeVa]

Wait, what? D:

[VasudeVa]

RC/Parama/Tazaro scum team anyone?

[VasudeVa]

Sigh. I hate being on the other side of the world. T_T. Any attempt I make at playing F2F mafia here fails hard because of some language issues and our uncooperative slacker culture. D:.

@Sando: Andy seems 'lost' since is totally directionless with his actions in this game, plays follow the leader and is posting a lot of fluff. Being 'lost' and being 'malicious' sort of contradict each other. I find that players of Andrius' archetype are extremely scummy and malicious D1 and onwards.

[VasudeVa]

Andy's meta? Anyone know?

I do. And I provided examples.

[VasudeVa]

I'm confident in my read on Andy. I have said that if Andy is scum, he is malicious as hell. Here, he's playing like how I'd expect him to play if he were Town.

You're taking this out of context. You basically ignored my argument #1(meta Read on Andy) and put my argument #2 (explanation that his play is 'lost' and therefore townish) in the spotlight when the two arguments need each other to be complete. (Hmmm...there is a word here but I can't seem to find it. Symbiotic? Nah.)

[VasudeVa]

Hey guys, I'm having immense troubles with my internet as of late. Like, 5 minute loading times per fucking page. It's not pleasant. I get home, slightly tired and hoping for some relaxing net-surfing and then I get these uber frustrating load times.

Vote: whoeverreplacedreapercharlie

just because. Reasons come later once this stupidly slow internets become fixed and I can review the thread etc.

[VasudeVa]

I prefer vezo/RC's lynch over Andrius'. In fact, if we lynch vezo and he flips scum then Andrius is probably Town because of RC's opportunism. It doesn't seem to work both ways(ie. if Andy flips scum, RCslot is prob Town because Andy wasn't as pushy as RC and was more reactive unlike RC's malicious and thickheaded attacks on Andy. IIRC anyway, stupid internet.).

I still hold my read on Andy and that he is Town from what I said D1 and I won't be moving my vote over to him.

What I really want to do is to check out the progression of votes to Andy way back D1 when Sando posted a case against Andy. A townie(Sando) posting a huge and convincing case like that on a fellow Townie(which is what my read of Andy is.) scum generally would hop along like hungry dogs. But, again my stupid internet is stupid and I won't be able to read it without shooting myself in the head in frustration.

I'll do it once my internet returns to it's speedy normal self. >.>.

[VasudeVa]

My internet is going fast! OMG.

----
Important stuff at Pages 14-15.

Ray first posted a case and voted for Andy at #327.
And then 3 minutes later, Sando posts his gigantic wall of Andy Vote at #328.
And then 30 minutes later, RC(vezo) hops along with Ray autoFoSing him. No case.
Prana at his #340 post hops to the Andy wagon too, with his own wall 1 hour later(I gave him some heat for this one with my #341 post).
Max states his support for the Andy wagon #344 but never really votes Andy. No explanation as to why he 'supports the Andrius wagon'.
volkan #353 votes Sando well hidden in their volk vs. Sando argument that had been dragging on at that time. The weird part here is he 'agrees' with part of Sando's case on Andy but he still votes Sando.

This little line of events is quite interesting and is the reason why I've been voting for vezo(RC) but I couldn't substantiate it at the time of the vote post.

Now, majority of my read on Andy is meta read with a little bit of a behavior read. If Andy is indeed Town(and I'm quite confident that this is the case), vezo/RC is probscum due to his opportunistic vote hopping. I think that RC was caught in his opportunism and did not want to appear like submissive scum therefore he blatantly disregarded doing a reread

despite saying in his first post in the game ever that he will 'catch up'.

Max and volkan are slightly suspicious due to their reactions to the Sando's post/Andy wagon. I am very concerned with

Max: he is obviously fencesitting as he has a grand to total of 1 vote(Sando) in the entire game that is 33 pages long.

volkan's "I agree with you about Andy being scummy but I'll vote you anyway." is suspicious as fuck. It screams inside information, and him being a major force in the Sando lynch is not good. (I don't think Sando would have been lynched if it weren't for volkan.)

The only problem I'm having right now is that Sando lynch compromises these three players. Scum bloc voting is a bad idea. Although the timing of the votes (Max = Early, Volkan = middle, RC = near the end) makes me think scum frustration. But bah, it's hard to analyze this without a scum flip soo. >.>

Sando

(7) – Max, Andrius, vollkan, Parama, tazaro, ReaperCharlie,

PranaDevil

At any rate, I definitely think that there is at least 1 scum and probably 2 in {vezok, Max and Volkan}.

We aren't in dire need of a lynch anyway so let's take this time to gather as much information on these players as we can. Max wagon go!

Vote: Max

Do keep in mind that this analysis

assumes that Andy is Town

(Because again, blablabla I read him as Town and blablabla therefore I don't need his Town flip to know for sure etc.).

----

@volkan: Why did you vote for Sando when you agreed with (part of) his Andy case?

[VasudeVa]

Reasoning is tech etc.

[VasudeVa]

Also, 'if he IS town, he's helpful' arguments are terribad. Really.

[VasudeVa]

Okay cool. Why am I scum with volkan and Andrius then?

[VasudeVa]

Vote: Vezo

Vezo wagon >>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy wagon.

I'll buy Max's and volk's explanations(for now.).

[VasudeVa]

Furzle bamburzle flurp glark nurzle.

[VasudeVa]

To all players: Why Andrius over vezo? (Or vice versa). Curious.

[VasudeVa]

Still don't see Andy scum.

Also, the activity is dismal here. Can't even find anything to respond to anymore. >.>

[VasudeVa]

One dude with two Vs in his username is really Town though.

[VasudeVa]

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that guy.

[VasudeVa]

@Xite: What do you think of the events that lead to the Sando lynch? What do you think of what your replacement did in the game? Which of the three Vs(Vas, Vezo, volk which popular opinion, or at least opinion of some actives, seems to be leaning thattaway for today's lynch) are you willing to lynch? Do you have any new perspective on the game since you've re-replaced in?

[VasudeVa]

Hey guys, one time the threads were aligned and then I read....

DotA Vs HoN: Period 2 Will Flow.

Then I was like. WTF O_o???

And then I read:

Popularity Mafia: Period 2
DotA Vs. Hon: Blood Will Flow.

And then I was like: ._.;;;

Man, I should get off this stuff. >.>.

[VasudeVa]

I read Andy as Town, therefore I didn't want us wasting a mislynch on him. Especially now, he's being awfully abrasive right about now and this is a side of Andy I've never seen before. I fully expected joking-Andy whenever he's scum with a wagon. Not-joking abrasive Andy with a constant threat of a lynch D2 is null, but I still hold my earlier D1 read on him. At the very least, his current abrasiveness is not scummy at all.

I'll catch up in a day or two and review my notes. I particularly have my eye on volkan.

[VasudeVa]

I agree with no lynching, but shouldn't we at least claim neighborizes and chat reports? I don't buy the '2 skilled scumhunters being neighbors getting NK'd' BS anymore, we might actually lose this and we need all the information that we got.

Besides, it'll be easier to catch lying scum(about neighborizes) once we have more people who claimed neighborhoods. Getting NK'd kinda silences you, ya know?

[VasudeVa]

Relax, it takes 5 to lynch. Anyone voting Parama to L-3 with be quicklynched with extreme prejudice.

Tazaro, you are being extremely anti-Town with those votes and if I was 2 shot dayvig/reviver I would shoot you then revive you then shoot you again for emphasis. If you're not scum, you're a scumbag's wet dream.

Unvote now or face my fury.

---

I know I promised a reread on volkan, but I'm being very lazy right now. Anyway, I'd like everyone to tell me where they stand on what I said in my last post. Hell, let's do a vote count.

For neighborhood claims - Vas
Against -

[VasudeVa]

Holy fuck, you're right. I totally missed that.

[VasudeVa]

Twomz, Nicol, and Andy get Town points for not hammering. volkan is the only one who did not post from Taz's vote to Xite's unvote

Parama, Xite and Taz. Hmmm.. I guess I'll scrap my volkan reread for now and get to rereading these guys as soon as I stop being lazy.

[VasudeVa]

I'm stating that all three cannot be scum together, not that it absolves them from being scum in anyway.

[VasudeVa]

I am a bit wary of Parama right about now. I know I mentioned that I would reread Taz/Xite but I thoroughly dislike Parama's #1095. With 2 people voting him and four people posting(Me,Nicol,Twomz,Andy) with Two votes on Parama... I'd think it increases the probablity that he is scum.

Top Three:
Taz/Parama/Xite in no particular order(can't decide.)

[VasudeVa]

Proclaiming Town reads =/= anti-town. I don't buy the 'LOL GIVE SCUM KILL LIST' argument. I'm sure they're more interested in NKing PRs than killing obv VTs.

[VasudeVa]

Because it was unwarranted. Friend/Ray/Twomz's slot is in some suspicion, and because he copy-pasted some votals does not mean he's town. I don't get why you would think he's Town because of that, so I don't like it.

[VasudeVa]

You agreeing with his suspicions does not/should not mean he's Town though. Scum need to convince Townies to vote for other Townies too.

It's either you genuinely agreed with his suspicion, or you are buddying him. Either way, your word choice suggests that you were buddying Twomz.

[VasudeVa]

If you're scum, you would lie to me about genuinely believing it because I caught you buddying.
If you're town, you did genuinely believe his suspicions.

It's relatively easy to twist your own excuses for your actions because there is no way to prove motivation. It would depend upon the interpreter, me.

[VasudeVa]

In the interest of getting this game in gear...

@Parama: I'll open my mind and give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not lying. Why did you agree with Twomz? Is it simply because both blue'd players are in your scumteam list? Also, if you read Twomz' post carefully, he specifically said that only one of the blue'd players are scum, not both of them(which is what you were suggesting over and over again.)

@Twomz: Why are those names in blue special? What makes you think that one of them is scum? What makes you think that they're both not scum? Also, thoughts on Parama/Xite/Taz fiasco earlier this day and Me vs Parama.

@Volkan: Were you active and posting elsewhere in this site when Parama/Xite/Taz happened? What do you think of Me vs. Parama?

Also, are there people here in neighborhoods with dead people? I remember someone saying that they are in a neighborhood with Max.

Scum have been killing people high up the popularity list for a while now. If this pattern continues, I'm next. So I guess, I'll claim that I have neighborized Andy N1 and Xite N2 so everyone knows in the event that I'm not alive D4.

[VasudeVa]

@Twomz: Fair enough. Which do you think is likelier: one of them is scum, both of them is scum or none of them is scum? Fiasco would be Taz pushing Parama to L-3. I think it's rather reckless play no matter what their alignment. That said, I also think it says something about their alignment.

@Volkan: Basically from #1063-#1074. I think it's slightly important since Taz pushed Parama to L-3 and you didn't post in that time frame. In the event that you are scum and Taz and Xite are Town, that would have been a splendid time to hammer and get the win.

I was accusing Parama's #1095 to be an attempt to buddy Twomz. Parama said Twomz is Town just because he 'agreed with him'. It doesn't make much sense to me to think that someone else is Town because you agreed with him. It makes more sense that someone is Town based on their actions. And Twomz' votal copy pasta + lazy analysis does not really strike me as something that would make a Townie say 'Twomz is Town' nor does Parama's explanation 'I agreed with him' as a reasonable defense.

Yeah, that. Thoughts on that?

[VasudeVa]

You kept suggesting the 'Andrius/Volkan/Tazaro' scumteam. He said that (probably) 1 of them is scum.

You: 100%(?) these three.
Him: 100% on one of these two.
You: I agree and you're Town.

While I know that it's probably a playstyle thing, I can't help but wonder.

[VasudeVa]

Playing to win does not necessarily mean that you're always passionate about winning. Meaning, I understand the aloofness coming of as apathy even if you're still playing to your wincon.

It's not an accusation of misconduct, it's an accusation of bad play(ie. aloofness, from Taz's point of view anyway) that generally shouldn't come from a player(seemingly, due to the scummy) as good as you.

What do you say about that?

[VasudeVa]

Actually, volkan has a very good explanation to his self-meta in relation to Taz's attacks. Although it's far too....'dirty politician' for my tastes. It's a good defense though, regardless of my perception of it's 'dirty'-ness.

[VasudeVa]

Maybe you guys would understand 'dirty lawyer' better.

From his defense, I get that feeling. It's like this: A murder case where in a lawyer constantly attempts to push it down a notch to 'manslaughter' by nit-picking the prosecution's choice of words. I mean, I know it's legit but it doesn't feel.... clean.

Volkan's 'It's not accusation of bad play, it's accusation of deliberate bad play' and then good logical defense afterwards rings to the tune of 'dirty

politician

lawyer' in my head at the very least.

Am I communicating this properly?

[VasudeVa]

I'm just so lost because everyone is either a) Answering well; or b) Answering vaguely but not distinctly scummy enough to warrant a MyLo lynch.

I think at this point it's better to no lynch and (hopefully) wait for a PR report or something... I don't trust anyone nearly enough to help them lynch someone at this stage.

I've been watching people go back and forth in this game and it continues to confound me. I think I've had enough and I can safely drop this vote in hopes of a more eventful D4.

Vote: No Lynch

[VasudeVa]

Interesting. There's no way scum-vollk(or scum anyone for that matter) would ever want to pressure a scummy LyLo fodder mislynch like Taz to replace out. vollkan moves up from suspiciously-null(because of how he defends himself) to slightlyTown then.

[VasudeVa]

Mega-massive quote stripes make my head hurt. I'm not even sure if I want to read that. *grumbles*.

What I want to hear from both of you is just this: What you think of each other? Do you think one of you is scum or is this a Town v. Town argument?

IMO, This makes both of you likely Town. I especially remember thinking that Xite was newbTown and, well.. I just don't think newbScum Xite would put that much effort to go against vollkan. vollkan is Town for pressuring Taz out of the game which I think an unlikely move by scum. I still think Andy is Town for reasons stated before plus what we talked about in our QT. And thus...
People left:
Parama
Twomz
Taz
Maybe, NicolBolas if one of these isn't scum.

[VasudeVa]

They don't seem like scumbuddies though, which was why I thought vollkan was Town. Scumbuddies have an inherent rapport between them, even if they fake-fights. If vollkan truly did want his scumbuddy Taz out of this game, he would have done something like that earlier. Hence, it's either volkTown/TazTown or volkTown/TazScum. Not sure which it is, atm.

@Andy: I already claimed my QTs in the event that I die. It seems our Mafia is after guys high on the popularity list(Max, 1st. Prana 2nd.), and I might be next.

[VasudeVa]

Thank God it takes 5 votes to lynch at this MyLo. Can people please stop jumping the gun, it's giving me a headache.

We are no lynching today, okay? There is little to no reason to do otherwise. Even if you're sure that another dude is scum, you can afford to wait. Right? RIGHTT~?~!?@~

prevedit:
@Xite: I think my explanation was sufficient. Perhaps if you explain to me why you don't understand, I can explain it to you better.

[VasudeVa]

I agree.

[VasudeVa]

I have QTs with Andy and Xite, last night I targetted NicolBolas.

@Vollk: Who did you target then?

[VasudeVa]

Andy, Parama, NicolBolas.

[VasudeVa]

Actually it's, Andy, Xite, NicolBolas. Screwed that up.

Note to self: Don't post while you're doing something else.

[VasudeVa]

Okay, Hindu. When DO we lynch lurker scum? How can we win if we don't lynch lurker scum? Hmm? D1? Oh dear, it's not D1 is it?

That's a horrible call. Making mistakes is a null tell. What's wrong with messing up my targets and correcting it later? In fact, if Parama is my scumbuddy(which is what I think you are accusing me off), I don't even need to correct it. He only needs to say yes. (Although Xite will be a problem but that's another story.)

Also, part of being Town is Townhunting. Meaning, looking for players likely to be Town and to not support their lynches(because mislynches are bad etc. etc.). I think Andy is Town due to what I explained in thread + our conversations in our QT. What's wrong with what I'm doing? Can you tell me why it's bad to defend another player who you think will be mislynched by Town? What do you think is the scum motivation to not mislynch a scummy Townie?

[VasudeVa]

No. The actual question is: how do we know there are lurker scum? I see no reason to go for lurkers when they could flip scum or town. I'd rather go for active scum first and make connections to the buddies later. This is MyLo. You don't decide it's time to lynch lurkers and lose us the game.

Oh right, and how sure are you that the non-lurkers are scum too at MyLo? It is my read and if you're not convinced, fine. But you calling me scum for talking to a QT-mate about a certain suspicious lurker is silly. I've expressed suspicion to that lurker's player slot over the course of the entire game.

Yes, it's great to make a town call and narrow your chances of lynching scum. What I'm concerned with is you made the call D1. That's like "Yep, confirmed town" before that much info is even around to make a proper call. Scumbuddies, manipulation by either player, or the best player knowledge I've ever seen. I'll just let you know I don't believe the third option to be very likely.

Anything wrong with that? What does timing have to do with any of this? If I read Town D1, I read Town D1 and if they're gonna start lynching my town read D1, I stop them from lynching my Town read D1. I don't have to wait until D3 to start reading Town.

Besides, you have not answered the important question here: Why am I scum for defending Andy? Am I scum for defending Andy specifically, or am I scum for defending Xite and vollkan in subsequent days too? I must be the pickiest scum ever for defending multiple people over the course of the game!

Making mistakes is a null tell. I can't really pursue you for this but you're my top suspect as scum and, as great as this reasoning sounds, I don't think the mistake wasn't true.

Great way to dodge a question on an attack with faulty reasoning!

[VasudeVa]

Nicol seems to have disappeared from my other game as well.

[VasudeVa]

Happy Birthday Llama!

I have to ask too, why tommorow?

[VasudeVa]

This close to winning, I bus my partner?

Anyway, I'm willing to hammer but really what's the rush?

[VasudeVa]

I didn't actually say Andrius was confirmed Town, I said he was probably Town based on his actions/our conversation in the QT.

[VasudeVa]

Because Twomz/Nicol are the only ones lurking? In that case, who was the lurker you were looking at. I have a QT with Nicol and he talked to me during the night so I can answer some questions that I asked him overnight.

I thought you knew that I was suspicious of Twomz? Why are you suddenly asking me about who I'm suspicious of?

You're scum for defending Andy, tbh. I can see a guy replacing into his friends scumbuddy slot and defending him based on a "town read". You can use your friendship/past experience with him as an excuse for defending him.

Evidence? Quotes? This is a baseless accusation. Yes, I could do that as scum but unless you have evidence that I AM actually doing it, you're just hypothesizing and not proving anything.

So you defended him...but you weren't sure if he was town or scum?

Probably means I think there is a high chance that he is Town(Around 80%, if I were to put my feelings into numbers). That's good enough to bet for. If he shows me some signs that he is scum, I'll change my mind. He hasn't. Plus, me and Andy have hydra'd together twice and played together multiple times. I think I know Town Andy when I see Town Andy.

---

Answer this very important question: What do I have to gain, as scum, for defending MULTIPLE(3: Andy, Xite, Vollkan) people? If you were scum and were defending this many people, you're making things harder than they should be. This is not WIFOM in the slightest, this is common sense. (Plus I just realized that people use the term WIFOM incorrectly when I really analyzed what it meant.)

@Twomz: You're just coasting a little too much and not adding to the discussion. Also, your predecessors.

[VasudeVa]

I'm still here, but I'm waiting on stuff to happen(ie. Hinduragi replying, NB's replacement etc.)

[VasudeVa]

Twomz, and now I'm slightly looking in Parama's direction. I used to suspect NB but Charlie has me convinced. It is HELLA HARD trying to make a catchup post like that as scum. If he is scum, props to him. But for now, I'm willing to look the other way.

Although, I think I'll be rereading a bit, especially Tasky. I caught Tasky as scum recently in an on going game. I think I'll compare, see what happens.

An added bonus: It's difficult to fake-interact with your scumbuddy in thread. I don't seem to remember the two slots interacting that much.

[VasudeVa]

Ugh. My head hurts.

Hold on, imma parse through this content explosion when I'm not high as a kite.

[VasudeVa]

Parama, your #1444 defense against Charlie is hardly satisfactory. You are either replying with vague answers, AtE or non-answers. Charlie makes some great points against you and whatever the hell that post was, I don't count it as proper defense. You have no right to whine about how much Town sucks when you aren't even trying(or you're trying but failing hard, w/e.).

Also, just because you do massive catchup posts as scum doesn't mean everyone does. I find Charlie did a genuine attempt at catching scum with his post(based on how detailed it was, and how much effort it took. Signs of genuineness.). You dismissing it because you 'do that shit as scum' doesn't mean that scum are less likely to put that much effort upon replacing in. Can you tell me why you think he's scum? You effectively ignored his attempt to catch scum by page by page analysis, and just looked at his conclusions. While I'm not a fan of his conclusions too, I look at the whole pie instead of one slice.

Charlie, why are you voting for Parama instead of vollkan? I don't see the reason mentioned anywhere.

[VasudeVa]

Thank God it takes 5 votes to lynch at this MyLo. Can people please stop jumping the gun, it's giving me a headache.

We are no lynching today, okay? There is little to no reason to do otherwise. Even if you're sure that another dude is scum, you can afford to wait. Right? RIGHTT~?~!?@~

prevedit:
@Xite: I think my explanation was sufficient. Perhaps if you explain to me why you don't understand, I can explain it to you better.

Vote: No lynch

I want my questions answered before anyone hammers though.

[VasudeVa]

Vague? I'm answering the accusations and proving why they're wrong. I'm specifically addressing every point. And that's vague? <.<

I have to call bullshit. Lemme get my handy-dandy bullshit detector:

Final leg of reading, but as usual I always check the latest posts to respond to:

BZZZZT. I did not judge the AMOUNT of effort, only the genuinity of the effort. Huuuge difference.

Can't say I believe you there.

...but what I said here is exactly what I said before. You were attacking me for a "lack" of effort, implying amount. I said you couldn't judge effort that way.
I'm saying Xite's effort, whether huge or small, is genuine effort, not falsified effort. Not implying an amount.

Semantic nitpicking of the word "lack". Avoids Charlie's attack by making Charlie's attack sound like something else. YOU are the one in question here, not him. You've ultimately avoided his attack by attacking him right back.

...linked the post I was talking about...
Which you took out in this quote. Nice job.

Oh gosh; that "If you say so" wasn't an attack, learn to read in context! Your over defensiveness in this matter is suspicious to me.

"If you say so" always implies mistrust to me. I usually just put a <_< after it to make it more obvious what I mean <_<

Another one of your "To me" beliefs, thinking that everything that revolves around you is correct. While I know it's part of your playstyle, it doesn't answer anything.

My honest suspicions, yes.
Wait, how's that scummy?

Look, not everything I say about you is "scummy" or attacking you. My analysis consists of a mixture of suspicions, pro-town behavior, gut reads and others... You are overreacting to nothing.

I post my scumreads - the only reasons you'd mention that is if you had something to say about it.
Unless you're going for the IIoA approach in your analysis, which I don't think you are.

I don't even know why you're saying this in response to Charlie's statement.

Dear god are you people not seeing this. He's trying to scumlink based on a meta comment (guess what I hate meta). Do you even know what distancing implies? Calling another player town doesn't exactly imply distancing.
Also again you're saying I gave my scumreads but don't say what the problem is with that.

1) I get that you don't like meta; and I don't like it also for I feel it isn't worth the effort. In the event that it is available, I'll apply a subjective view towards it. Moreso of the fact that I'll have to take a person's word for it and look back at the meta-ed game.
2) Perhaps I have the terminology wrong; its not distancing then... the opposite of bussing? Coaching, perhaps?
3) Once again, you view this as an attack when it is not. Read in context, please.

1. mmk
2. buddying
3. see above

Nothing here too.

...
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Active posting =/= pro-town by default. What if someone posted 5 posts in a row, but they were all fluff? By your logic, they're more pro-town than the guy who posted once but with content.

Oh my lord, you are clearly not reading the whole thing or you've missed out on important details. I just said what you said above there, you didn't notice it? Go find it yourself; I'm not linking it for your apathetic/lazy behavior.

I'm always lazy but whatever.
Also the post I quoted did imply the opposite of what I described, so...

Self-metaing lazyness to avoid Charlie's accusations.

This is just Charlie trying to look good.

Oh no, he found out my secret!

Pro-tip - townies don't put effort into trying to look town, scum do

Not explaining the 'Charlie trying to look good' in detail. It's a serious accusation without accusation. Then the pro-tip is just worthless and still doesn't explain anything..

Ooor Andrius/vollkan are the scum on the wagon.

Can't really blame you for saying this; you're defending yourself by pointing out the other possibilities. Changes nothing.

But, looking at your most recent post, you'd be totally fine believing this

I don't even understand why you said this.

Honest logic, bro. I know how it looks, but it's exactly what I feel.
If it's advocating an Andrius lynch (who you have a scum read on) why do you care, though?

You do realize that you're my top suspicion along with Andrius, no?

And there are 3 scum. I fail to see your point.
P.S. - 2 of your top 3 suspicions are right, but the third is very very wrong.

More vagueness, more a lot more of nothing, more fluff.

A failtown posting a weak case on me automatically makes me scummier? What kind of world do you live in?

C'mon, only you think that's failtown. Don't project your opinions directly on me; convince and not force. You're certainly not pro-town for this.

I'd define vezok as failtown (no offense)

Again, nothing.

*switches vote one time from one strong scum read to the next, first post of the page.

Yeah, vote hopping!

...
Tell me how this is vote hopping.

Charlie is being as vague to you as you are to him. It doesn't mean anything, he gave up trying to get anything from you because you are not giving coherent reactions.

Oh, and you continue to over react.

Lol, people posting a case on me automatically makes me scummier.
Why don't I go BS a case on every player in this game? I could totally do it, but it wouldn't prove anything.

Man Charlie your logic is weaker than vollkan's was at the start of the game.

If you say so

Why, yes I do.

Again, nothing. The amount of 'nothings' in this post makes me think that you're trying to look good by making the posts longer than they should be.

Page 43: Mmmh, Parama's setup speculation... at #1050. Right, I know that setup speculations are notorious for being misleading; but I personally feel it is okay to some extent (not to mention fun to guess around a bit). Based on the seperations, a Parama/Twomz/VasudaVa mafia team fits. Otherwise, Andrius/Vollkan/VasudaVa. But the rest of the page sums up popular opinion: this isn't reliable because it could all be easily randomized. The rest of the page show some connections between players, but I'm not sure how to connect the dots because we lack a mafia flip.

I leaned away from this earlier, but I just noticed a Charlie/vollkan/Andrius team fits with this too ^.^

Lack of explanation, vagueness etc.

Page 46: ... It leads us to vollkan's #1136 which is terrible! He ends up in a worse position than VasudaVa. Aside from his vebrose post, he's trying to sell his points of view and make it sound like a fact. That's bull crap right there. Vote vote vote!

Following that he has a Wall of Quotes/Wall of text which is also unimpressive. Who are you hoping to convince with those points? And no I don't buy what he's selling. I'm more confident that vollkan's manipulating mafia at this point. This or he's so caught up in doing "townie analysis" to the point that he's blinded by the fact that not everything is black and white logic in Mafia.

d(''d)

You also barely mentioned me in that last set, whereas vollkan was a hot topic, so your vote on me in light of your most recent analysis post makes little to no sense coming from a townie.

This one is the only one that makes a tid bit of sense. But it's an obvious move from anyone to question Charlie's vote, so not nearly enough to make me feel good about this post

.

--prev-edit.
That does make sense, but it's baseless theory. Can you give me links/evidence that will give your theory credence?

You've been shouting out random names throughout the course of the game. Forgive me if I can't find myself willing to believe your unsubstantiated attacks.

[VasudeVa]

Well, you're being weird.

I still stand by the no lynch though.

[VasudeVa]

1) Twomz
2) Parama

[VasudeVa]

Andy's too much of a sweetheart to be scum. It's blatantly obvious if he is(Really, read my comparison of Andy's play here and in two other games where he is Mafia.)

Where the hell is everyone? Also I suppose it's massclaim time right about now. Soo do we do this via popcorn or by "Most suspicious" from the lists above?

[VasudeVa]

Hey guys, just checking in to say that I've been sick for the past few days and I don't necessarily feel better right now.

V/LA for a few.

[VasudeVa]

I PROPOSE AN ANDRIUS/VV/HIND MAFIA GROUP, TARGETTING MYSELF AND PARAMA AS MISLYNCHES

Agree/Disagree?

That's your big case?

You really think the scum would let one of their buddies be the #1 suspect based on biased suspicion lists? You're funny

Lists are easy to fake. Defense is silly. You're funny.

I don't even have a fucking case but I can trust my gut and the only pro-town advice I have received. Look, if you're town, tell me why he said to lynch vollkan/charlie because, frankly, he never told me why but he did say something about giving me and his town reads a piece of his "analysis" and then he changed his mind and said I was the only one getting it and then he never gave it to me. (If you're reading this, xite, tell me why post-game)

Xite told me something like that in the QT too, but no way am I following his advice since he's been derpy the entire game. Why do you trust his word this much at LyLo?

----

Vote: Twomz

I wanted to vote for him at the start of the day but then I got sick. I also didn't want my vote floating around there while I was too weak to get it off(should I ever need to).

I'll review(and post) my 'bad feelings' on this slot when I'm up to speed and no medication is messing with my head.

[VasudeVa]

ANDY NOOOO!!!!! T_T T_T T_T

FoS: Hindu

The 'Xite told me to vote Vollkan/Charlie' is bullshit. If I was just here to see that vote hop to Twomz, I'd have immediately unvoted because that votehop was pure and utter bullshit. I mean, seriously:

Read this post and tell me that it isn't a badly reasoned scum votehop. And then other horrible attacks like: this and this. Add Taz in the mix, and there you have it.

I'll be very surprised if this guy doesn't flip scum.

Last question for Hindu, before I place my vote:

What were you and Andy talking about in your QT? What did he think of you? Don't you dare BS me, Andy and I traded detailed information in our QTs.

--

@Parama: Why is Charlie scummier than Hinduragi? Also, why were you waiting for Charlie to hammer and then immediately hammered yourself anyway? Can you explain your thought process then?

--p-edit:
What the hell is that list Hindu? I don't understand it.

[VasudeVa]

Wait. So, you and Twomz comfortable enough to start making that list(Since you put each other as 'Town') .....but you still put him at L-1 yesterday, regardless?

In QT:
Hindu: I'm Town!
Twomz: So am I! Let's make a list together so we can catch scum!
Hindu: YEAHHH!

In thread:
Hindu: Vote: Twomz(L-1)

Something's not right there.

Vote: Hinduragi

[VasudeVa]

That doesn't make sense. vollkan was against Charlie just like you. (Even in our QT too.)

Why is Hindu not scum? He makes the most sense as a scum member, at this point.

[VasudeVa]

@Hindu: Am I reading it right that, again, you are using other people's cases?

[VasudeVa]

Thread needs more dead Hinduragi.

--

1. Charlie is town
2. Andy told me that, if he dies, VV is probably scum. Though I'm not aware of who he told this to so scum may've killed Andy on purpose to frame VV. Largely null tell read here. VV's reaction to that list doesn't help this much.
3. The scumteam is in Parama/VV/Vollkan.

1. How the hell did you come up with that from the NK/whatever?
2. Interesting. First off, that list is surprisingly vague. Multiple braincells were sacrificed and I still didn't understand it. Now, you're telling me that my reaction to your vague list is...bad? Secondly: Of course, Andy wouldn't say that to me(He didn't, for clarifications sake). But I'm curious about the other QTs Andy had. --@Parama: Did Andy say anything of the sort? You're the only other person in QTs with Andy.
3. No. First off, I had no absofuckin reason to kill Andy. If I was scum, I would have buddied Andy for FAR TOO LONG in the damn game and had manipulated him into mislynching Twomz....only to kill him off NOW, at LyLo? Does not compute. Me-scum would have kept Andy, told him to vote Town in our QT and then I'd have me and my buddy hammer for the win. Cry WIFOM all you like, but the advantages of keeping Andy along for me-scum are too good for my supposed faction.

[VasudeVa]

2. Yes, you voted me in LyLo based on a list you thought I stole from Twomz. Town voting in LyLo that fast without thinking it through = does not compute.

Not really. I had a bigger post before that outlining my suspicions on your slot. I was already threatening the vote.You stole Twomz' case. (Well, actually you are, but it wasn't as grand as I thought it was, since it's public and all.). I saw that you are still a parroty-ass black person who I still suspect and that sealed the deal. I have no reason to withhold my vote, since I can't see anyone else flipping scum at this moment. Your scumflip will be very illuminating.

[VasudeVa]

Hinduragi still needs to die. Can people please explain to me why Hinduragi isn't dead yet? /shameless prod post.

(I'll go over shit when I'm done with some IRL issues. Be posting this in my games.)

[VasudeVa]

Vote: Parama

Finally.

[VasudeVa]

It's a secret~

[VasudeVa]

@vollkan:

Quite honestly, I was very paranoid that you might swing to Charlie in the coming days, that's why I was so tunnely on Hinduragi. I also left you alive because we were planning to mislynch Hinduragi due to Taz's and his play. I think that you got too lost in your own logic and delayed too much. You did call Charlie correctly, but I don't get why you were being so paranoid.

@Parama:

You too, your arguments were very persuasive. I really don't see why vollkan disagreed with the 'If Charlie was Town, scum would have quickhammered.' That scared me senseless. I remember trying (and failing) to make a post against that five times. Although, I think it was your over all attitude in the game that made people look the other way, eventually. It's not that your arguments were bad, but you looked real bad saying them.

@Hinduragi:

You have a strong gut. Really, you come in this game and called me correctly. I also remember NicolBolas saying that you read him as scum in our scum QT. Although, your downfall really was that you allowed us to persuade you too easily. While logic is awesome, I really doubt that it's as powerful as a strong gut call since skilled mafioso can twist words and defend themselves from any attack(not that I'm tooting my own horn here~). Although how you're going to make a case against a skilled mafioso, I'm sure you would find a way.

@Andy:

Sorry Andy <3. You really shouldn't have trusted me as much as you did since I was horribly buddying you hard on Day 1, as soon as I entered the game. In fact, I think my thickheadedness on your defense was the only thing that kept people from looking at my direction for that blatant buddying when in fact it should have gotten me some flak.

@Charlie:

We made it! <3. I was really impressed by your catch up post. That shit is difficult to do as scum, and on a game as slow as this one. Although on the later parts, I think you were a little too light hearted in a tense situation LyLo that made people look in your direction. If I was Town, I would have voted you for that. Even as your buddy I was like, 'What the hell is this guy doing!?' Still, good work us.

---

I actually liked this set-up. Although I'll have to agree with Xite in that it was more fun during night Phases when we were talking to multiple people at the same time. I liked the short 3 days for discussion in the QTs, it felt tense and quick(seriously like a serious hallway discussion during passing periods.). Although with the extreme amount of flakers, yeah(I don't think it's necessarily Llama's fault though. It's becoming a sitewide problem, it seems.)

I think that we, as a scumteam, successfully drowned people in WIFOM and also spread general bad feelings in Town AND got away with it. Although, I'm not sure. I think without the flakers and with a more active playerbase, I think we would have gotten into more trouble(in fact, we did.) But I'm guessing this is where Charlie's/NicolBolas' combined efforts into manipulating Hinduragi came into play(which I think won us the game.). I'd love to see that QT.

Good game all, see you around.

[VasudeVa]

Consider that revenge for mislynching me TWICE on D-effing-1 when you were scum.

Still I got mad <3s for you Andy, but this was a looonng time comin'.

[VasudeVa]

Consider that revenge for mislynching me TWICE on D-effing-1 when you were scum.

Still I got mad <3s for you Andy, but this was a looonng time comin'.

Yeah, I know.
But Greek Mythos I didn't even vote you. That wagon was completely town-driven. XD

B/c we all piled on AGM XD

Yeah, we need to be masons/scumbuddies sometime.
And we have to mod Studio Ghibli Mafia sometime. <3

Hai!

Lemme get mod-capabilities so we can be official co-mods and stuff. <3.

Next Alignment-pick games, we better pre/in on it. >:D