Mini #1004 - Popularity Mafia (Over)

[NicolBolas]

I just read thru these three pages. Sorry for the lateness. I have been with very limited access. i see that we are claiming popularity now. I see no problem with that. But i disagree with whoever said the person should befriend the next one down the popularity meter. I blieve that everyone should have freedom to pursure whoever they want. (as long as its somebody with lower popularity.)

Why are we wagoning on Volkan? I think that we have enough to discuss, (newb here so not sure how long RVS should last. I think that it shoul be over by now?)

Oh right, I'm #4 on the list.

Also, do you all think it is possible that popularity is not random?

[NicolBolas]

Post explosion!

I'm behind, so i need to read thru the whole thing, and see what is happening.

Be right back.

[NicolBolas]

I’m just reading thru the game and typing my thoughts when they come to me.

I believe that freedom to choose whoever you want to befriend is the way to go, because of what somebody brought up- Scum can just take advantage of the extra information to plan their nightkills accordingly. I think this is bad. But, you should claim who you befriended, why, and what your impressions during the night was. Everyone, you should be aware who you talk to could be scum, and act accordingly. If i’m correct, everyone has claimed their popularity, so I believe that is all we really need to talk about the neighborzing thing. Now, can we leave that subject at rest?

I dont like how tasky tried to start a wagon on Volkan with very little reasoning. Hmm.

@andrius, I dont know, it was just a question. (popularity being nonrandom)

Tasky selfvoted? That’s the holy grail of scumtells from what i know of Mafiascum.

@xite- I do not think its a good idea to have short days. It gives us less information to work with.

I think it would be a bad idea to claim who we befriended, until it is necessary, because if we claim, scum can use that information.

Also, I think that the day is more important than the night, because there are much more people to analyze information in posts. so I think we really need to reduce the discussion about the neighborizing issue. it is distracting me from reading people.



I do not like xite and tasky.

My dislike of xite is because he is confusing me.
@xite, I do not see where friend is buddying up to people. can you point this out to me?

I dont like tasky for how he selfvoted just because there wasnt any other wagon. He could have just voted on whoever he thought was scummy. I believe that just this deserves my vote. What else i dont like about him is: his very weak vote on Seraphrim. He is still holding that vote, and i do not see why. He is not even commenting on Sera anymore.
@Tasky- do you still find him scummy?

vote: Tasky

[NicolBolas]

1)I believe that freedom to choose whoever you want to befriend is the way to go, because of what somebody brought up- Scum can just take advantage of the extra information to plan their nightkills accordingly.

1) how?

Scum can isolate people, prevent pairings they dont want, or maybe they can do more than that.

@andrius, I will not comment more on that, but I think i see what you mean.

@xite- I do not really see these posts as buddying. I just see them as questioning/ talking to the people that friend wants to. I dont believe that is buddying. You are confusing me with you saying "AtE". AtE is appeal to emotion. I do not see appeals to emotion in these posts. Your case on friend seems to be based on misinterpretations. Is it? You point out several things as scummy, which i do not find scummy. an example of this is you pointing out that friend was the one who proposed the mass claim of popularity. I fail to see where that is scummy. It leads to more information. I think that i will

unvote vote:Xite

because of your effort to make a wordy and confusing case and not have anybody try to puzzle it out. (preview edit: Show me the appeals to emotion that you see. I do not believe simply agreeing with others is AtE.)

[NicolBolas]

@xite- It could also "frame" people

Really, I do not really get why xite believes friend is scummy.

@prana- plank? What is a plank?

[NicolBolas]

Ah. english, i see. /offtopic

[NicolBolas]

Popularity List:
1. Max
2. PranaDevil
3. Scott Brosius
4. NicolBolas
5. vollkan
6. Sando
7. Seraphim
8. Friend
9. TheLonging
10. Andrius
11. Tasky
12. Xite91

Just putting this list where everyone can see it.

I'm really bored, so I read thru the whole game at least three times so far. I'm torn between Tasky and Xite.

@Tasky, Your odd behavior makes you seem scummy to me. What are your suspects? Please solidify your stance.

@xite- I'm unsure on how to approach you. Your case on friend is full of crap. Do you have any stronger evidence that friend is scummy other than what you pointed out?

Also, Tasky has 4 votes. 7 votes needed before he is kicked out of the school, right?

[NicolBolas]

@tasky- I didnt even see that contradiction about claiming, hah. I was just typing whatever came to my mind as i read thru the thread. Now, I guess i should clarify my stance- What i meant was that I think that people shouldnt claim whoever they befriended right away, but when pressed, they have to have reasonings. The second one is not a contradiction i believe. If scum know who is gonna befriend who during the night, They can manipulate that information to their advantage. If people exercised freedom of choice, scum does not know who people would befriend so it would lead to less information for scum, thereby freedom of choice is better. I do not see where that is a contradiction. Your reasoning about Sera seems all right. I just found it odd that you just left the vote there, and not even change your mind about things. Now, you are moving things along. It seems okay to me.

I'm not sure what to make out of the interaction between Sando and Tasky. On one hand, it looks like Sando is truly attacking Tasky, and Tasky is OMGUSsing, But on the other hand, Tasky has a good point about Sando' weak reasoning. hmm.

I still think that scum can be found in Xite.

[NicolBolas]

@Tasky, on the contrary. neighbors targeted on N1 will take effect on N2. So if scum knows who the targets are on N1, they can plan kills on that knowledge, on N1. If people have freedom to choose, Scum will not have that knowledge until D3, so that would help the town, i think. Am i incorrect in my thinking here?

[NicolBolas]

Any created quicktopic will be available for use starting the next passing period (night phase) and lasts through the remainder of the game. They are only able to be used during passing periods. Talking in class will result in a trip to the prinicpal's office.

Mod said this. So you're incorrect with that.

[NicolBolas]

@Xite- I saw the same thing that friend did. What i see in the bolded parts is friend not getting your case against friend, then you are now using that against friend. I do not like this. Friend is not dismissing your case as nothing IMO, it is your case that is weak. I am not sure what you mean by "easy targets much?". What i saw was Tasky and Sando attacking each other. It just struck me oddly. About the neighborzing thing, my concern is not in night three, but night two. Hypothetically, if scum knew the plan for neighborzing, they would be able to eliminate both of an single person's neighbors, rendering that person worthless in discussing what happened during the night. Also, a preset plan prevents the town to scumhunt during the night.

(preview edit)
@Max- i'll reply to your questions

1) The person above me is Scott Brosius. I can't form a stance on him. I dont see him posting at all.

Mod, can i request a prod on SB?

2) I would lynch xite. I feel that his case on friend is useless, and when attacked for it, he seems to be panicking a little. Pulls out crap reasoning, really.

3) I feel that Andrius and vollkan is town. I have a good gut read on Andrius. I cannot imagine him as scum. As for vollkan, his posts has been quite protown. On my scum-o-meter, i would say that they both fall on three. (1 is supertown and 9 is superscummy)
(end preview edit)

[NicolBolas]

@max, i think i want to see you answer your own question too. You should be able to form an opinion by now, even without your questions' answers. If you give your opinion now, and after, I think it would help us see more in what you are seeing out of these answers.

[NicolBolas]

@friend- Ah, i see. Disregard my question then.

[NicolBolas]

@Tasky, No. I decided that what friend said is true, so i'm letting max wait until everybody else posted before demanding an answer from him. I except an answer eventually, but in the interest of preserving Max's intentions, I'm letting him be last. hmm?

[NicolBolas]

@sando, i read thru your posts and it seems that you are attacking Tasky for his williningness to jump on an "easy target" and nothing else. Is this true? I want to see more reasons why you dont like Tasky.

@Tasky I read thru your posts and it is interesting how you are reacting to Sando's admittedly weak attack. Instead of proceeding with logic, you accuse him of being scum because he pointed fingers at you. Do you have any better reasons than just that Sando attacked you?

A very interesting exchange between the two. If i had to choose one to vote, I would choose Tasky, but i'm still waiting on xite....

[NicolBolas]

Tasky and Sando's arugement,
Tasky in general,
Xite's weak case on friend

[NicolBolas]

I'm back. I need to read this game, then I'll post my thoughts...

[NicolBolas]

I left because I was under a lot of pressure from my real life.

I'm under less pressure now. so i came back after noticing my slot was behaving embarrassingly by not posting much.

[NicolBolas]

unvote

I'm still reading. I'll see where my vote ends up on at the end of my read. Also- this game is a horror to reread. too many replacements...

[NicolBolas]

I gave up on rereading the game. instead, i read people in ISO. I'm not done yet, but i felt that ReaperCharlie was posting very oddly. It was quite scummy. Vezok's posts does nothing to help the scummy feeling here, so i'll

vote Vezok

VV- Your defense of andrius is all right, but why are you so focused on "saving" andrius?

Vollkan- are you planning to put every player through the 0-100 scale you have?

Parama/Tasky is quite aggressive, i dont like his tone, but since he wasnt lynched on D1, i would think he's probably town

Andrius feels like a frustated player. Who do you think is the scum here?

Max- you seem to be a quiet player. more opinions please.

more coming later

[NicolBolas]

Tasky was hovering around l-1/-2 if i'm correct. I'm thinking that scum would have found a way to hammer him, but it didn't happen.

Andrius, why do you think that rc wa town? I found him to be scummy.

[NicolBolas]

Ok. I read rf and twomz.

@andrius- is your suspicion of that slot because of rayfrost' attacks on you?

[NicolBolas]

I unvoted and voted vezok if you didn't notice.

[NicolBolas]

Ok. Xite seemed scummy to me in the beginning, but I'm leaning townish on xite now. Just one question- why are you still going after Tasky? Is there anybody else that seems espically scummy to you now?

[NicolBolas]

Vollkan- do you think my reasoning seems bad, still?

[NicolBolas]

Tazaro is a master of one-liners. His vote on vezok is L-1 i think. Vezok- claim now.

@Tazaro, why are you hopping around with your votes like crazy? in your ISO, 3 out of the last four posts are all votes. you can answer this in one line, but make it a good line.

[NicolBolas]

@taz- So you suspect all the people you voted for: vollkan, Andrius, and Vezokpiraka? If so, who do you think is more scummy? (Not who you think the town is more willing to lynch)

[NicolBolas]

@vollkan- what does your summary thingy say about RC/Vezok?

[NicolBolas]

It was what i thought might be likely.

I dont get what you mean by me buddying up to Tasky/parama, though.

I could be wrong, but ATM, i think Vezok/RC is a better lynch than Parama.

[NicolBolas]

Xite: Ah. I'm not telling you to let go of your suspicion. I'm just saying that i dont think he is scum. Keep your suspicion. Just lynch Vezok first.

[NicolBolas]

I'm just asking- why not?

[NicolBolas]

Hm. thats true. al right. Lets see what vezok has to say.

[NicolBolas]

Is vollkan angry?

[NicolBolas]

He knew it was a hammer.

[NicolBolas]

I'm looking at this- and could Parama explain me one thing?

This seems to be MYLO- so could you tell me pros and cons to nolynching today?

I think it would be better numberswise to nolynch, myself.

Xite- you seem to be eager to lynch somebody, even if it is MYLO. Why?

[NicolBolas]

I propose a quick poll. Since this is MYLO- Should we nolynch? Why?

I believe that we should because I'm not as certain as the others about who is scum. Also, we could use our neighbors a bit more, one more night, before we risk lynching.

[NicolBolas]

I'm for it, though i have nothing to claim.... iiiiiiq the inactive player never neighborized anybody and nobody neighborized him...

[NicolBolas]

UHM.

Ok.

xite/tazaro, unvote parama right now.

[NicolBolas]

Taz- why? Elaborate please. do you think that Parama is scum, and is willing to risk it all in MYLO?

[NicolBolas]

Assuming three scumbags, 5-3 is MYLO.

[NicolBolas]

I guess I'll go ahead and

vote no lynch

[NicolBolas]

My top three places? hmm. I think would be

No Lynch
Tazaro
for the third, I'm not sure. probably one of the V's.

[NicolBolas]

No Lynch/vollkan
Twomz
Parama

I'm convinced the scum is in these three.

Including No Lynch? /joking

[NicolBolas]

1) that would be vollkan?

[NicolBolas]

@Volkan: Basically from #1063-#1074. I think it's slightly important since Taz pushed Parama to L-3 and you didn't post in that time frame. In the event that you are scum and Taz and Xite are Town, that would have been a splendid time to hammer and get the win.

I dont get it. How would vollkan be able to hammer with three votes needed to hammer?

Isn't almost impossible for us to avoid a no lynch with the vote count the way that it is?

HMM. What do you mean? People can always unvote and vote for scum. Tazaro- Who is on your top three list? I'm assuming Parama, but you haven't said anything about other suspects. What is your position on vollkan?

[NicolBolas]

The suspicion I have is of your aloofness in this game, and I trust's Xite's suspicion of you, too. The town reads I have are Twomz, NicolBolas, and Xite.

Techinally, this is 19 words, not 20.

Why do you feel the need to post your town reads?

[NicolBolas]

The suspicion I have is of your aloofness in this game, and I trust's Xite's suspicion of you, too. The town reads I have are Twomz, NicolBolas, and Xite.

Techinally, this is 19 words, not 20.

Why do you feel the need to post your town reads?

The town reads were part of my explanation I was giving. Since those are my town reads, vollkan is one of those whom I've narrowed down.

Ah i see.

Vollkan has responded with a meta defense, what's your reply?

vollkan- do you believe that we should take meta seriously? you could be manipulating your meta.

[NicolBolas]

I would argue that it could be possible for a player to play poorly in one game, then try and use that to justify playing poorly in another game as scum.

Taz- Is that the only reason why you find vollkan scummy?

[NicolBolas]

hmm. I'm gonna go and read through both Tazaro and vollkan.

[NicolBolas]

All right. Just finished vollkan. He does not exactly seem aloof to me. He has been actively scumhunting and analyzing things on D1 and D2. Tazaro, could you specifically point out examples of vollkan's "aloofness"?

[NicolBolas]

Ok. Tazaro, you attack Parama early in the game, then back off, saying you believed what Parama was saying, then you go after Parama because of what xite said, then you drop it and start accusing vollkan for his aloofness.

Explain this, please.

[NicolBolas]

EBWOP: By "this" i mean why did you change your position on Parama?

[NicolBolas]

Another thing i saw was that you keep on citing Xite when asked about your votes. This strikes me oddly. It makes you look as though you want to be able to blame somebody else if things go badly.

[NicolBolas]

Iso 41- his first attack vs parama.
Iso 52- said that he believed parama
does not think parama is scummy. Starts to suspect the v's of the game, along with andrius.
Then on the beginning of this day, he goes back to parama, without regard to previous suspicions.
When people started pointing out vollkan as possiblescum, tazaro unites, votes no lynch, then starts to attack you after I asked him about his other suspicions. I find it odd that he would jump between his suspects at end of the last day to parama and then back to you, part of his orginal suspect list.

If it wasn't MYLO, I would be willing to vote Tazaro for the above shifts in postion.

[NicolBolas]

Ebwop- unites= unvotes.

Damn iPhone.

[NicolBolas]

Vas- I'm not sure what you mean by "dirty politican", though.

[NicolBolas]

I get it now.

Xite, you profess heavy suspicion of vollkan without exactly mentioning why. How come?

I personally think Tazaro's postiton shifts is worse than what I see from vollkan.

[NicolBolas]

Parama- you do realize this is MYLO? If so, why are you voting Tazaro? Are you 100 percent sure he is scum? If it wasnt MYLO, my vote would be joining yours, but...

[NicolBolas]

Tazaro's position shifts are already scummy enough, but scummy enough to lynch in MYLO?

Unless if you found a major scumslip i dont see.

[NicolBolas]

Taz- you may say that you're a bad player, but that excuses nothing. You still have to explain why you made your postion shifts.

[NicolBolas]

If you Dont know what you're doing, why are you even playing, then?

[NicolBolas]

Vollkan- i don't think that was nessecary, just to kick out a player because his play was not up to par. I think you should have let him stay, but encourage him to play better, not place ultmatums.

[NicolBolas]

Twomz- even if it puts him at l-3?

I want to add my vote on that, actually. If majority of the town agrees, then I'll vote to lynch tazaro.

[NicolBolas]

Parama is voting taz too.

[NicolBolas]

Andrius, so what stance do you take? would you like to lynch Tazaro or not?

[NicolBolas]

Tazaro WAS scummy, but with him replacing out, I'm kind of not sure. To me he is either really stupid town, or a caught and wriggling scum. Honestly, its a coinflip between the two.

If there is three scum in this game, then one has to be in this group: Tazaro, Parama, and Twomz. Otherwise, there would have been a quicklynch.

Out of these three, Twomz is the towniest one, IMO.

That leaves Parama and Tazaro... If i had to choose, it would be Parama.

I think that there's no votes on Parama, so I'll go ahead and

unvote, vote Parama

[NicolBolas]

Parama- I'm not 100% sure about it being either you or tazaro. That's why.

Ah, Vas is right.

unvote, vote nolynch

I'm looking at one of you two closely now.....