Mini 987: Alternative Vote Mafia- Ovah!

[TheButtonmen]

Ok, I submitted my initial ballot. Should I post it here too or are we keeping these things private? We should get a townie consensus on this (I'm a townie myself).

A)

6. Valid ballots, once submitted, cannot be withdrawn or amended.

B)

Public ballots are required.

[TheButtonmen]

(I'm a townie myself).

What a coincidence! I'm a member of the town as well!

[TheButtonmen]

Not Official Ballot:

1. Zachrulez

[TheButtonmen]

Non Offical Ballot:

1) Volikan
2) Jason
3) SV
4) Zach
Banana) Jack

Discuss.

[TheButtonmen]

So Jasons scum eh?

Read him in ISO and keep the fact that he thought deadline was tommorow; also his reaction to the being voted for being jason is also a slight scumtell to me as well.

Non Offical Ballot:

1) Jason
2) Volikan
3) SV
4) Zach

[TheButtonmen]

EBOWP:

keep the fact that he thought deadline was tommorow

in mind.

[TheButtonmen]

'cause I forgot to add it to the original post; thus I EBWOP'ed and added it. The bold was to demonstrate the change.

[TheButtonmen]

@Volikan:

1) Town players should vote for whom they think is scum
2) Town players should think that other players are scum for good reasons
3) Therefore, town players should vote for other players for good reasons
4) Town benefit from being able to collectively consider good reasons
5) Scum are disadvantaged by having to justify votes with good reasons
6) Thus, votes should be backed up with good reasons

1-6 are completely wrong; like 100% wrong.

Now in regards to obvscum jason; he thought the day was ending yet he did nothing, he was happy to go through the day just coasting along avoid discussion, he didn't give any reads, act in anyway concerend about the day's end.

As for my other point; He was voted for "for being jason". He chose to interpret this to mean "for being scum jason", In my experience thats not a natural way for town to interpret its meaning.

[TheButtonmen]

@Volikan:

You misattributed a quote.

Your argument rests on this:

As for my other point; He was voted for "for being jason". He chose to interpret this to mean "for being scum jason",

In my experience thats not a natural way for town to interpret its meaning.

SV didn't say that; I did. Also to answer your question; experience. It's not a matter of motivation for the scum, it's human bias.

Also you continue your trend of only asking questions, never contributing anything.

1) Town players should vote for whom they think is scum
2) Town players should think that other players are scum for good reasons
3) Therefore, town players should vote for other players for good reasons
4) Town benefit from being able to collectively consider good reasons
5) Scum are disadvantaged by having to justify votes with good reasons
6) Thus, votes should be backed up with good reasons

1) Agree
2-6) Disagree

Then why not just submit an official ballot right now, using random.org or something?

1-6 are completely wrong; like 100% wrong.

(I'm abbreviating you to TBM from now on)

I detect sarcasm. If not, same question.

I'm not answering that question, we can discuss it in MD after the game; having that arugement here would be noise not content.

[TheButtonmen]

Back.

[TheButtonmen]

Ooh, hi. I was graduating if you wondered where I was. Currently getting my games together.

Congrats!

[TheButtonmen]

Ooh, hi. I was graduating if you wondered where I was. Currently getting my games together.

WAITWAT.
I'M VERY CONFUSED BY THE P-FRUIT SISTER AGE TIMELINE NOW.

I assumed elementary.

[TheButtonmen]

@Mod:

What's the deal with deadline?

[TheButtonmen]

So Anon's scum eh?

Sweet.

1) Anon
2) Jason
3) Zachrulez
4) Volikan
5) Pomegrant
6) Elliberth
7) Jack

[TheButtonmen]

vollkan: Since you asked me a question based on a misattributed quote, do you have any other questions for me?

Yes. Why did you ask me that?

Feel like posting something that doesn't end in a question mark?

Your not scumhunting at all, just asking a bunch of fairly weak questions without following them up or doing any analysis of people answers.

[TheButtonmen]

Hnnn my lack of opinion about you is disturbing.

Stop coasting and stand out more!

[TheButtonmen]

I NEED ISO DAMNIT

Sort posts by author can duplicate the effects of ISO.

[TheButtonmen]

That's a crock of shit.

So it's our fault your being as useful as tits on a bull?

My level of concern with your opinions of "commonly considered scumtells" quite honestly couldn't be lower; what I want is your opinions on the game and in particular it's players, your list of 1-6 is a prime example of the useless malarky you've been pushing to seemingly avoid commenting on the game itself.

Starting a debate about what constitutes a scum tell or voting theory is something for MD not here; if you want to explain why someone is scummy then by all means use your preferred scum tells or method of voting anaylsis; but stop trying to have debates about who's system of scum hunting work best in the game thread.

[TheButtonmen]

I have asked you and re-referenced a question on this exact game that I asked you - about why jason's reaction was natural for scum. It's very easy to keep banging the "you're pushing a theory debate" line, as you are, but it is complete bullshit. If you don't have a decent explanation for your attack, that is a valid scumtell.

I have to say that I find it truly ridiculous that pushing an erroneous line of attack (eg. "scum don't pay attention" or "Jason's reaction was unnatrual") is somehow useful, but my play is useless.

what I want is your opinions on the game

I've given my opinion on every major development. The fact that my response has generally been "That isn't scummy; your reasons aren't valid" doesn't alter that.

Yes; people pushing what you (Vollkan) think is an "erroneous line of attack" is quite useful; when people push something it forces them to publicly put things in writing. Which the rest of the players can then judge and form their own opinions on, unlike your play style of calling everything useless or invalid which contributes jack diddly squat. Dismissing someones line of attack as wrong is quite different from making attacks of your own; you've been judging people attacks as invalid, not the posters as scummy or town.

Also I already answered your question about why I found it a scum tell as for you not liking my answer well;

My level of concern with your opinions of "commonly considered scumtells" quite honestly couldn't be lower

[TheButtonmen]

I generally consider consistently poor reasoning a scumtell. Hence, it's untrue to say that I've "been judging people attacks as invalid, not the posters as scummy or town"

Quote yourself calling someone scummy or town.

I don't consider instances of lacking attention scummy. I don't consider somebody interpreting a particular post in an understandable, if unusual, way scummy. By my count, those are the only two serious issues to have arisen thus far in this game. It follows that I am not going to attack people for those things. My argument on both those points (I'll come to the latter in just a moment) has stood solidly.

So you think nothing of note has happend this game? Damn it's going to be tough to cast your votes eh?

Points to note:
1) You entirely ignored my question about how town should have reacted come end of day
2) Your argument in suppot of your attack on jason's reaction boiled down to a feeble "It's not a matter of motivation for the scum, it's human bias".

1) Here's what I said;

He thought the day was ending yet he did nothing, he was happy to go through the day just coasting along avoid discussion, he didn't give any reads, act in anyway concerend about the day's end.

Well first off; town wants discussion, town wants people giving reads. I expect a towny when they see that deadline is in less then 24 and there's no clear lynch canidate, multiple posters have avoided saying much and that they hadn't given their reads on people to be quite vocal and point out the deadline and demand people start posting their ballots.

But more importantly it's what he did during the day, he thought the day was four days long and proceeded to avoid as much as it as he could, avoiding joining any discussions or starting any attacks.

2) Yes.

[TheButtonmen]

Offical Ballot:

1) Jason
2) Anon
3) Shattered
4) Volkan
5) Pomegranate
6) Zachrulez
7) Jack
8) Elliberth

[TheButtonmen]

A) Holy crud no questions and B) I agree with Vollkan

[TheButtonmen]

What's Jason?

[TheButtonmen]

ScumJason is lurking because town is focusing on Pom.

We should lynch him instead.

[TheButtonmen]

Jason's post summarized for people on the go:
Oh hai guys I "forgot" about the game and found it right when I was called on my lurking
I also am reluctant to call pom sucm but oh wait not any more she def is but I'm still going to keep her as number 2.
Oh and im locking in my list now.

[TheButtonmen]

One liners are pro town.

Yes.

[TheButtonmen]

I'm not reading Pom as scum.

Vollkan is lower then you because your scum, he's just scummy at the moment.

[TheButtonmen]

Anon is being obvscum. Pom isn't scummy. Lynching her is a bad move. Lynch Anon or Jason, I'd actually prefer an Anon lynch at this point.

[TheButtonmen]

'cause you got a scum role PM and your bad at being scum, she isn't playing like scum, see previous point, see first point.

[TheButtonmen]

I think Pom needs to claim now. I'm not putting Jason near the top, he's town.

Vote Anon first then.

Who has Pom at the top of their list and hasn't voted yet?

@Mod:

Is there any chance you could post all the offical lists you recived in a single post?

[TheButtonmen]

Vote: Shattered

[TheButtonmen]

I'm down for a SV lynch at anytime but Doc should claim 'fore night fall.

[TheButtonmen]

So then Zach or Elli just lied.

Claim: Bodyguard

of the martyr variety.

There's no way theres a cop, doc and a bodyguard in a 9 man game.

[TheButtonmen]

wut I was expecting Pom to be the doctor.

Why?

[TheButtonmen]

[TheButtonmen]

@Elli:

Why use it N1, why us and whos your preferred lynch for the day?

[TheButtonmen]

Well then.

Pom's claim is not sitting well with me, I dislike the Jack is obvpartner aspect of it and the Elli protect seems weird given how she's been voting. It is however believable.

Vote: Zach

[TheButtonmen]

Methinks Shattered is lurking his way through this. Scumz.
Would lynching someone else (shattered) and leaving both claimed docs alive today be a good play?

No.

[TheButtonmen]

Dear Shattered.

Post.

Sincerely TheButtonmen.

[TheButtonmen]

Offical Ballot:

1. Zach.
2. SV
3. Pom
4. Jack
5. Volikan
6. Elli

[TheButtonmen]

SV is good at many things, bussing is not one of them though.

[TheButtonmen]

Speed Lynch is a go!

Offical Ballot:

1. SV
2. Vol
3. Jack.
4. Pom
5. Elli

[TheButtonmen]

ITT Pom doesn't understand how speed lynch works.

[TheButtonmen]

Man Pom your bad at this speed lynching thing.

[TheButtonmen]

Got some bad news buddy.

[TheButtonmen]

Sigh, I knew it.

A) What the crud made you guys think it was Vol? B) You guys lurked waaaay too much the last day.

Good games though everyone and thanks for the modding!

Well gambited by the Pom / Zach.

[TheButtonmen]

I dunno, I feel very guilty about this win; it's probably a psychological thing because I didn't put much work into this game and the three people I played with - not to mention everyone else - did.

Heh.

Based on the word count I think you actually put more work into this game then the majority of the players.