Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[Jack]

Jack replaces flinter effective immediately. Welcome him!

I'm pretty much convinced beyond any doubt that Flinter's slot is scum now given the way she just replaced out.

[Jack]

I'm only on page 10 of my read, but so far I'm not liking Sotty or Zach.

[Jack]

I'll add hohum to that list for crude language.

[Jack]

Why aren't you surprised?

[Jack]

Why aren't you surprised?

Mainly because linking us together is pretty much what Flinter did, and you replace in and cast suspicion on me and Sotty before really delving into the game.

In fact, why was there such a pressing need to react to me?

That doesn't sound like an obvious scum strategy to me.

*********

Scum:
kyle
xreck
hohum



Neutral:
zach
ortolan
Vi
percy
DDD

Town pile:
sotty
locke
ekiM

In order. Feeling good about this, but kyle needs to be slammed with a dozen or so questions, it's like the only thing that's made him post this game. Xreck and Kyle's early posting I'm reading as scumbuddy. Kyle's flinter vote post is scummy, and I think percy pointed out xreck's inconsistency on meta (between zach and Vi), plus his "lynch me" post. hohum is on there because he posted a couple times after xreck had his "K. lynch me" post and only later voted him, and his vote then makes it sound like he's ok with auto-lynching people who do what xreck did, and yet he didn't mention it earlier. They way he included a link is scummy.

zach got called out for vote hopping early, and said that as scum he sticks to his vote. Which is EXACTLY what he's done for the rest of the day.

Ortolan tweaks my gut a bit in her first couple posts.

Vi, I don't like some of her suspects.

Nothing much to say about the rest.

[Jack]

zach got called out for vote hopping early, and said that as scum he sticks to his vote. Which is EXACTLY what he's done for the rest of the day.

Funny how you don't commit to calling me scum and actually call me neutral.

Even more interesting how Sotty ended up town after you said you didn't like both of us earlier.

Also looks like you're fine with your vote right where it is too. It's great how things like that work out.

Why is that funny? I assume three scum, you are 4th, the list is in order. You do sit on one person as scum, and that is what you are doing now, this is correct?

I didn't like you because you both wanted to lynch me out of hand. That wasn't about suspicions; I hadn't read the thread yet.

I have no idea where my vote is.

unvote

"funny how" "even more interesting" "it's great how" <--scum language

Oh my god Jack's post is so so so wrong

Jacky boy. 1) I'm not scum. 2) I'm usually the one who is ALWAYS all over kyle's case and trying to get him lynched. It's this hate-hate relationship we share in every single game we play together. You can meta that if you want.

So why aren't you all over his case this game?

[Jack]

For how long have you thought that?

[Jack]

You want hohum lynched for crude language?

No.

Sotty of all people winds up jumping from scummy to Townie?

No.

You moved your vote someplace where it's neither helpful nor credible?

What?

Read more carefully.

...pretty much the whole game.

What did he do back on page 1 or 2 that was townie?

[Jack]

My last post was responding to Zach asking the same stuff, I said:

I didn't like you because you both wanted to lynch me out of hand. That wasn't about suspicions; I hadn't read the thread yet.

It's looking like I'll vote xRecks, but the fact that I'm not voting anyone is irrelevant. That "by not voting your not helping" line has always been bs.

[Jack]

I just got here. Often when replacing my reads change after I get in the mix.

[Jack]

@Vi: my vote on xRec is final.

Why xReck? Flinter is the one who replaced out under threat, which is what BloodCovenant did in the game you linked to. xReck was more of an emotional thing. Saying your vote is final is a cop out btw.

[Jack]

It's just so hard to choose between hohum and Jack

Can someone summarise the things kyle has done which are actively scummy please?

The only thing he's done this game is defend himself a couple times and defend xReck a couple times. His vote post for flinter is scummy, but mostly it's the link to xReck (and vice versa). So lynching xReck has a certain "lynch one scum get the second one free" appeal.

I'm going to

Vote:hohum

though. For the "xReck says 'lynch me', hohum posts but doesn't comment on it, hohum posts a strong accusation of percy including 8 or so links to his past cases, hohum votes xReck for the post which he'd been ignoring and links to another game for support (except in that game BC claimed doc, and asked for replacement because "it's clear I'm not wanted here...good luck town" which is nothing like what xReck did but more like what flinter did (with the replacing) but hohum says his vote is

final

)" chain of events.

[Jack]

btw, as I said before: hohum posting a link to support his xReck post is itself scummy. The fact that it doesn't support his xReck vote is scummi

er

.

If you think something is scummy enough for a

final vote

, it doesn't take you almost an hour to make up your mind about it. And if you think it's that obviously lynch worthy, going out of your way to post a supporting evidence link is a sign that you are worried about coming under fire for it.

[Jack]

Actually, more tidbits about that game:

The only non-RVS vote I received that entire game was from kyle99.

So what do you think about what Vi said about kyle?

[Jack]

I just isoed kyle, the only scummy thing I noticed is

You make some decent points on me,

Which is kind of a weird thing to say. I would like to see kyle's response to Vi's 284 though.

I would like to see your response to Vi's 284 and 287.

didn't want to prejudice his responses, br0. Of course now you're going to need to meta his replacement anyway.

Unvote
Vote: kyle

for what looks like tactical replacement.

fos:ortolan

kyle replaced out of another game with the same message...don't like your reaction.

[Jack]

I often give unexplained gut reads orto. You'd rather lynch me over hohum (who you were voting before)?

[Jack]

Do you mean you had only read up to page 10, or only page 10 at that time?

@Jack: How much do you look for scumbuddies before a single scum flips?
You pair kyle and reck together but also think hohum is scummy, who has been voting reck pretty hard. Does hohum change your reck read at all? And what are your reasons for thinking reck is scummy?

Only page 10 at the time. I look for a pairing, which is inherently suspicious. However, I'm not big on the xreck-kyle combo right now. It wouldn't have changed my hohum read either way, since it's both possible that xreck is innocent and that hohum is bussing.

I would put it at hohum--ortolan--Vi right now. Moving zach way down my list because sotty seems town and she thinks he's town.

[Jack]

Hammering isn't scummy, but you can still legitimately vote someone for hammering.

[Jack]

And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".

[Jack]

And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".

Your vote wasn't on anyone. Mine's on scum. tyvm

-Your vote is doing jack, VI~

You're not

helping

anyone and it's lending no

credence

to your dedication.-

[Jack]

And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".

Your vote wasn't on anyone. Mine's on scum. tyvm

-Your vote is doing jack, VI~

You're not

helping

anyone and it's lending no

credence

to your dedication.-

You're basically wrong, and this argument is stupid.

Why don't you want to lynch ortolan? There are plenty of people who have voiced interest in lynching him.

About 4 going by ekiM's list, compared to about 7 for hohum, who I like a bit better. And deadline is in like 12 hours. You're voting for no lynch right now. Not that I object since you'll change your vote before hand, but that's what you get for lecturing me earlier

[Jack]

I like an orto lynch just fine, but I don't quite know what to make of the rant/replacement request.

[quote="Percy]Seriously, people who sign up for awesome games and replace out SUCK. If you're not enjoying yourself, at least try to learn something rather than ruining the game for the rest of us with your ragequitting. For the people who replace into games, you're awesome and I love you. [/quote]

You have to admit me and Jahudo are a lot cooler than flinter and kyle.

[Jack]

Kyle replaced out of this game and another game (where a cop had a guilty on him) with the same message, but he's still involved in games on the site.

[Jack]

Seemingly normal he replaced out, then something like open211 he was still in.

Interested in: hohum, ortolan,.......... kyle over xReck.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:ortolan

Those points about hohum are good enough for me to switch. The first one anyway.

[Jack]

What the bejeesus was that?

[Jack]

That is

AWESOME

[Jack]

Vote:Jahudo

[Jack]

Goodies

ortolan

- mostly gut. Reads as genuine. Would like more posting.

Percy

- Again what he's saying feels honest.

sotty7

- Gut...

Zach

- And again. Yeah I guess I can't explain these reads yet.

hohum, ortolan, DDD. These guys trouble me. They've all been less involved than I expected. They've all been chasing the easy targets (hypocrisy, I know).

ortolan again with the lurking and chasing xRx/flint. I like his interactions with kyle though. Inscrutable man.

I will support a hohum or DDD lynch today.

Scum are hohum, Locke, and one other. DDD? Sotty? Hrm.

No reason ort can't be scum, but it's less likely to be with hohum when he named his two lynch preferences for today as Jack/flint and hohum. I'm pretty sold on hohum being scum.

Looking again at ortolan, his lurking and going after the VIs a lot still look bad. His meltdown towards Vi is still baffling. I don't know what more there is to say.

ISO 18 you talk about most of the people in the game but skip orto.

Basically, how can you call Locke's defense of orto scummier than your "supporting but not really" of the orto lynch? The best defense is a good offense, don't your lengthy attacks on hohum qualify?

[Jack]

FoRMC:xReck

[Jack]

unvote, vote:hohum

Fine, be that way...

[Jack]

I criticized Vi because at the time it was almost deadline and I felt she was dragging her heels on the hohum lynch which was the only viable good lynch.

Jahudo seemed scummiest to start and could be my main choice, but hohum turning up with just a vote is annoying.

[Jack]

Annoying = Scummy?

I thought he was scummy yesterday, it was just that one of the points was not that good it turned out.

You think just slapping a vote on him with no questioning actually help matters?

Post or perish.

[Jack]

I checked page nine, but I can never tell if someone defending scum strongly is actually scum.

However I did notice that one of Vi's main points about hohum is totally bogus. No mud on Vi mind you.

[Jack]

The whole conspiracy about hohum "waiting" before accusing xRx is utter dreck. In case you missed it, hohum was multiposting, catching up to each response as he saw it. This should be obvious by how hohum finally got to flinter's post "don't lynch xRx" long after she actually made it and hohum had already responded to earlier posts twice.

************

big post by percy (201)
xReck says: "K. Lynch me. This game does not interest me in the slightest." (post 202)
Percy responds to xReck (203)
flinter responds to xReck (204)
hohum responds to big post by percy (205) <--fair enough on multiposting/catching up

what's with the ultimatums from people who are nowhere close to being lynched?

hohum I would like to know the totality of reasons for your vote on Percy at this point in time.

In (207) hohum responds to (206) with a lengthy post and about 8 links
Then in (209) hohum replies to (204) and votes xReck

So, he most definitely did wait to accuse xReck.

********************

@Jack: Fine, look at hohum attacking Ortolan. Does that look like scum attacking a buddy?

It could be. That's not really something I weigh real heavily.

I did notice a couple things hohum said to orto though:

If you're not going to rectify your lurking problem

So you think calling out lurkers in a game with tight deadline is scummy? We should continue to allow people to lurk?

[Jack]

Locke wagon is looking weak. I don't see how he's been wishy-washy or lurky. I had one tell on him that I still like, but it was also kinda early in the day and now I'm feeling meh.

Jahudo starts today going after ekiM.

Looking back at Locke's early opinion of the ortolan wagon, I can see where he was trying to keep it from gaining momentum. There was the threat of a no lynch occurring if the various wagons didn't compromise into a lynch wagon, but I don't see how that's something you counter-act with preventing new wagon suggestions. That should actually help the compromise process, and further analysis down the line.

There's also the idea that he was against orto-wagon talk because he had a town read on orto. But if he was town I don't know how he'd then see Vi's vote as being suspicious.

Vote: Amished

*puts locke/Amished at L-1*


Jahudo is likely scum. Maybe even a better lynch than hohum.

[Jack]

hmm

unvote, vote:Jahudo

[Jack]

Also, I ask that somebody unvotes me until I at least have my say and a chance to defend my position. Continuing on, I'll try not to get as picky to cut down on stuff that I picked up on.

I could have sworn I requested that 2 posts ago, but I guess I got distracted somehow

Anyhow, I'm very much soured on the hohum lynch atm. Let's wagon Jahudo instead of him or amished please.

[Jack]

I read the game amished linked too and now I'm getting the feel that hohum is a bad townie scapegoat. Of course, he could be mafia just like he could be just a bad townie scapegoat. But I don't have the feel of it.

And Locke was one of my suspects day 1, whereas I have a town read on hohum.

But you dropped Locke as I quoted you to show.

[Jack]

That's pretty decent. Especially the part about giving kyle a free pass.

[Jack]

Jahudo, ekiM, hohum would be my suspects. This is obvious but I don't think I've posted in a while.

[Jack]

Oh, so there's two scumpartners?

What were you getting at with this comment?

[Jack]

Oh, so there's two scumpartners?

What were you getting at with this comment?

lol, reactions

huh?

[Jack]

That's usually more of a policy lynch thing. No one is playing particularly rude that I can see anyway.

[Jack]

I think amished already linked to the game where hohum claimed cop in an easy cypher on page one (as the actual cop). You could check that one.

[Jack]

"Usually it's scum who go all emo and quit"

[Jack]

Sotty should know that "don't like" and "find scummy" aren't the same thing because we discussed it before (my comments upon replacing in).

[Jack]

Jack - I think his initial reaction to the ortolan wagon is one of the worst. He tried to actively derail Vi's wagon in this post,

That's nonsense, Vi was pushing a tiny wagon with 12 hours left, not a good play, and I wanted hohum lynched.

I'd like to ask,
@Jack: To what extent is your suspicion on Jahudo based on your suspicion of kyle99?

Mostly. kyle was my top suspect in my initial list iirc.

[Jack]

Percy sounds a bit like scum that's pissed that at people like hohum and xReck not drawing the fire he thinks they should.

[Jack]

Percy sounds a bit like scum that's pissed that at people like hohum and xReck not drawing the fire he thinks they should.

Why scum, necessarily?

Not necessarily. "a bit" Town get frustrated too of course.

I don't really do "details" with a feeling like that. The bolded swearing maybe.

[Jack]

I'm not that familiar with what he would or wouldn't do. I think the bit amished pointed out about him holding kyle to a different standard is pretty damning if jahudo turns out to be scum. That's my main thing on him.

I have seen scum get annoyed at a bad townie not being lynched. I've been annoyed about that as scum myself. And the reasons he's listing are all "bad townie, scum case fodder" type things--"he's done nothing, he's inconsistent, he's wagon hopping" etc.

[Jack]

I'm torn on whether hohum is town being annoying, or scum just not caring/deciding best strategy was to not post and let the cards fall.

[Jack]

Let's just lynch Jahudo.

[Jack]

You're 2nd on my scum list, so don't mind me if I ignore you.

[Jack]

I agree.

[Jack]

The options should definitely be Jahudo and hohum rather than Jahudo and amished.

[Jack]

I would rather lynch Jahudo today, since I'm pretty sure we won't have trouble getting a consensus on hohum tomorrow.

[Jack]

I can see the town deciding for some reason not to lynch Jahudo tomorrow if he isn't lynched today. But I think hohum is lurking so badly etc that there'll always be some support.

[Jack]

I can see the town deciding for some reason not to lynch Jahudo tomorrow if he isn't lynched today. But I think hohum is lurking so badly etc that there'll always be some support.

Which of them (none, one, the other, or both) is scum?

Vi. I didn't accidentally post my "lynch one townie today and the other tomorrow" plan in the thread.

I think Jahudo is more likely scum than hohum (who is likely scum).

[Jack]

Percy kill is weird.

Not big on a hohum lynch.

I agree about the kyle/xReck pair but would have to reread. I remember thinking that Jahudo's case on ekiM at the start of day 2 was like distancing.

[Jack]

Yeah.

vote:xReck

[Jack]

See kyle and xReck's scumbuddiness, xReck's weaksauce vote on Jahudo, Jahudo's "I'd be suspicious of any of his

reasoning

" comment, and xReck's "hohum, please claim so I can hammer you instead of my scumbuddy".

[Jack]

Ah fair young Percival, we hardly knew ye other than the fact that you probably would've tried to spend all of D3 trying to lynch hohum again.

I have an instant, gut revulsion to lynching someone who has been on scum wagons both of the first two days of the game even if that person is Reck.

Define "on scum wagons":

"Hi! I'm DDD, and I act like an arrogant pompous twat for no fucking reason whatsoever!"

In any case, given the points: DDD-lynch is preferable to simply make him dead because he's awful, but since that's obviously not happening, I'll

Unvote; Vote: Cobalt

Am I the scum player in this analogy? Who am I attacking?

...Seriously?

Unvote, Vote: Jahudo

I'll hammer hohum if necessary. CLAIM TIME.

Ort was the only lynch when xReck voted him btw.

[Jack]

DDD lynch = ortolan/Cobalt lynch > Jack lynch

That's how I feel, but I'd lynch any of them.

Vote: DDD

.

Jack ~ L-3 (Zachrulez, Sotty7, Cobalt, Locke Lamora)
Cobalt ~ L-3 (Vi, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Jack, Jahudo)
hohum ~ L-5 (Percy, ekiM)
Debonair Danny DiPietro ~ L-6 (xRECKONERx)

[Jack]

Right now I trust Vi as much as a swarm of hornets whose nest has caught fire and I think anyone whose making the assumption that she's town is making a leap of faith.

She started pushing the ort wagon when it looked like it was going nowhere due to deadline (ort could have even got pissed at being bussed), and pushed hohum over Jahudo.

But I find xReck too suspicious to worry about anyone else.

[Jack]

[Jack]

My beef with ekiM is mainly that at the start of day 2 I (in 540) posted a bunch of quotes and asked him some questions about it, which he answered. The next page Jahudo makes the same basic case (some of the same quotes), not even noticing that it had been talked about, and ekiM responds at length, not noting that it had already been talked about.

However, it's likely that Jahudo was just being lazy scum targetting a townie, and ekiM just didn't happen to mention that it was the 2nd time the accusation had been made, instead deciding that since it kept being brought up, he needed to do a lengthy reply.

If you read through xReck and Jahudo, the very much look like scum together.

[Jack]

Townies typically don't lurk for an entire day phase and hammer at the end.

[Jack]

xReck is scum. Sometimes it really is this easy.

[Jack]

I'm a whimpering slave of the fear, vanilla townie. I am too scared to live my life with any real meaning, so I have no special abilities and will probably die a pathetic death.

I thought you were going to self vote

[Jack]

I agree with getting a claim from ekiM.

[Jack]

Unless ekiM claims something really weird, I still think we should lynch xReck.

[Jack]

Such a good start to end up losing...my suspect list was xReck, Vi, hohum. Ouch...

[Jack]

I never even used my neighborizer power :p

I felt like it was a good "get out of jail free card" if I had a confirmable ability like that (assuming the mafia wouldn't have two neighborizer's). Actually when I first got it I was thinking they would never have one since it seemed so useless. Was very pleased that orto flipped neighborizer.

[Jack]

Sotty looked very town for the jahudo lynch. But looking back at how the next 3 days went, you can't tell me Jahudo wouldn't have been lynched in one of them. So lynching him over hohum was the best choice by far. Hard to see that though.