Mini 896 - Jekyll Mafia - Game Over

[Slaxx]

First of all, howdy! I'm replacing 5cvm. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute more to discussion. I'll go ahead and give my opinions of everybody:

Gerhard Krause: The L3 incident at the beginning of the game was kind of odd, but the way he is questioning Suave and trying to get everyone to participate in discussion gives me a general protown read on him.

Green Canyons: Hasn't posted in a while, but from his ISO I get a general protown vibe. He, like Gerhard, tries to incorporate everyone in the scumhunt. I don't see any posts where he has really derailed discussion or said anything suspicious. Generally protown read.

Hacker Huck: Another protown read. He's not asking as many questions as the other two but puts valuable input into his posts. I like his last post trying to enourage a full voting roster.

Kikuchiyo: Once again asking good questions. I agree with his dual bandwagon stance (which now has been discontinued for one on Mr. Suave). I'm going to give another protown read.

Mr. Suave: Finally an antitown read. Haha. He either really doesn't care about the game or he is just playing terrible scum (Of course, this same logic could be used for my predecessor, as people have been saying). He's had a whopping 13 posts, 9 of them being 1 line or less. I'm waiting for a response before a vote, as many others are. Regardless of scum or not he is for sure antitown and someone we dont want making it too far into the gane, especially in incidence of lylo.

Nachomamma: Mostly prowtown read. Seems to be protown through most of the ISO, but makes a petty excuse about misreading Gerhard's posting history. I agree with him, though, that it might be too early for a Suave lynch. I want to hear from him before I cast a vote.

Unity/Peanutman: Not really enough to read yet, Unity seemed like a terrible lurker, and followed bandwagons pretty easily. I have to give an anti-town read for now though due to her lack of contribtion.

Phantom: Slight protown leaning. Not very active, but from what he does post it seems he has town interests. I definitely want to see more posting from him though.

Raider: I'm not totally for sure what to think. His logic is pretty flawed and every time someone confronts him he doesn't really give answers that have satisfied me. Hasn't added much new to discussion. Slight scum read.

Wolf: A good second post. As peanut said though, general contribution went down and he became a follower. I want him to talk more to give a better read. At this point Neutral.

Xvart: General protown read. No red flags are going up in my head and he is fairly active in the scumhunting.

Thanks to the shananigans of my predecessor I'm sure you guys have plenty of questions for me, so fire away. I'll do the best I can.

[Slaxx]

---

@Slaxx,

Looking at your first post, your three negative reads are on the top 2 vote-getters and me, because my predecessor dropped out due to lack of motivation. Your post seems big and informative but I don't really see anything new. You also fail to follow up on your reads by asking questions to specific people. After reading it, I see it more as a cautious summary of the game than anything else. There's also your use of words like "slight", "general" and "mostly" that seem to give your reads nuance, but I just don't buy it. It might just be my general feeling towards those types of posts, but I don't feel your first foray into the game was very helpful. I might just be overly critical but I'd like to see more pro-activeness on your part.

I also assume that you would vote Mr Suave but were waiting for an answer on his part, correct?

Correct. And I'm a little confused. Is it the adjectives that make my post suspicious, my opinions, or both?

[Slaxx]

xvart: He seems to talk mainly to 5cvm, his first few posts and the most recent ones are helpful. In between he kind of becomes uninterested it seems, and some of his posts are more filler in the middle. But like I said his posts have picked back up. His explanation for putting MS at l2 is fine, like I said, I see no obvious scumtells. The only thing that I can really say about him is some of his middle posts seem pretty useless. (ISOed of course).

PHANTOM: Like I said, not enough really. But I said I'd like to hear from him more. And he still hasn't said a thing, so now I'm leaning more and more towards scum. Hasn't made contributions since Peanutman pretty much told him that he was suspicious and needed to post more.

In return, I would like to know your stance on Raider. I already know basics from your last post but do you have anything additional?

[Slaxx]

I was responding to kikuchiyo (who i'm now calling kik, if he doesn't mind my laziness) but you're more than welcome to share. We should be talking more anyway before deadline anyway.

[Slaxx]

You haven't even posted suspects. I mean it's not like you're just not explaining your suspicions or votes, you're

doing absolutely nothing.

I mean really, what could we have expected in the end game? You are not trying, you are not posting content, you haven't contributed, you haven't defended yourself, you haven't even tried not to get lynched!!

Someone drop it like its hot.

Green Canyons, your info will be just as good tomorrow as it is now. The only reason to delay a hammer is if the info is relevant to the lynchee, and may be influenced by him. This is not the case, so I don't see how waiting will add to it. We need to move into D2 so that the people on MrSuave's wagon can move on to something new, and will be able to act on your information.

True, but there's no reason to hammer now anyway. We might as well wait because the mod is out till Friday. If anyone has anything else to say though, I would probably say it before we go into night. I don't think I have anything additional to add right now but I'm up for more discussion. It never hurts.

[Slaxx]

*Out till Sunday

[Slaxx]

Unvote, Vote: Mr. Suave

Time to move on...

The mod isnt going to be back for a while so now we are just going to be in twilight. I would have rather the hammer waited a tad longer so those that have not chimed in would do so before the day closed.

This, IMO.

Also, Green Canyons never came back with more info.

[Slaxx]

You haven't even posted suspects. I mean it's not like you're just not explaining your suspicions or votes, you're

doing absolutely nothing.

I mean really, what could we have expected in the end game? You are not trying, you are not posting content, you haven't contributed, you haven't defended yourself, you haven't even tried not to get lynched!!

Someone drop it like its hot.

Green Canyons, your info will be just as good tomorrow as it is now. The only reason to delay a hammer is if the info is relevant to the lynchee, and may be influenced by him. This is not the case, so I don't see how waiting will add to it. We need to move into D2 so that the people on MrSuave's wagon can move on to something new, and will be able to act on your information.

True, but there's no reason to hammer now anyway. We might as well wait

because the mod is out till Friday.

If anyone has anything else to say though, I would probably say it before we go into night. I don't think I have anything additional to add right now but I'm up for more discussion. It never hurts.

*Out till Sunday

Talking about Mod.

I already said I didn't have much left to contribute, nor do any of us (hence the silence) but I wouldn't call my post complaining.

[Slaxx]

I already said I didn't have much left to contribute, nor do any of us (hence the silence) but I wouldn't call my post complaining.

Then what were you trying to say by quoting Raider? It read to me like you would have had me wait longer to hammer. As far as I can tell we only had one(possibly empty) promise of incoming content. Theres still time to post. I don't see the problem.

I was agreeing with him. With the deadline setback I didn't really see the need for a hammer. I just figured we had plenty of time to hammer, but once it was done it was a permanent thing. However you are correct in saying that the thread is dead. My opinion, though, is that the lynch is going to take place on Sunday hammer or no hammer because the mod is out so there's no reason to make a permanent decision. Otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.

On the flip side you did start conversation again.

[Slaxx]

I agree with peanutman in saying that you have not contributed much at all, Raider. I find it funny that you bring up "the easy kill" as "giving you insight" but you have done nothing but follow the protown flow without really backing much up. You went for the 5cvm lynch when things looked bad for him and same with Mr. Suave. ISO 22-23 are both reasons for your absence, and then after over a week the best you can come up with is not a real reason for suspicion but instead saying youd like to see 5cvm post more. You ISOed 26 seems like scumhunting until you also say "like HH said". Then once again you're back to no originality of your own.
Most of the other posts are spent defending yourself, which is fine because if you are town we don't want a mislynch and in essence you're doing your part, but you wouldn't be in the spotlight had you not acted so suspicous at the beginning of the game.

I also don't get this from ISO 36:
"Tuff Also it could be that I posted stuff other people were thinking and thought it would be scummy to post regardless of if they were town or not."

I'm not saying its a scumtell or anything, Its just a wordy sentence. Do you mean you posted other things people were too afraid to post because they felt it would destroy their protown reputation?

That being said I want to make sure that we don't get a bad case of tunnel vision here. I'll be ISOing other people tomorrow and see what has evolved from this conversation going on now. Particularly on Gerhard Krause after the possible "they" slip Macavity pointed out.

[Slaxx]

The lynch yesterday was clearly "steered" from 5cvm to Suave. We should lynch the 5cvm slot today to see if there was a reason. Thoughts?

I think Suave did most of the steering on his own.

Instead of just suggesting a lynch you can feel free to ask me questions, of course. I'll do my best. The only thing I can't answer is what the heck 5cvm's gambit or whatever you want to call it was all about. I think you even said he was just being an asshole. So to me this reads that you're not really lynching me for his actions so much as you are the fact that the votes fell off 5cvm and on to Suave. Which is fine as long as you can explain why so I can defend myself and those who you claim were 'steering' can do the same.

I did an ISO on xvart and couldn't really find much new, but he's turned into a super lurker, with almost a week's worth absolute nothing. Before his last post there was another 5 days of absence. This worries me. The quality of his posts reads protown, but he just hasn't been active for the last two weeks.

My suspicion of xvart and Phantom is growing, however, some players contribute less on day 1.

Now since we've been in day 2 for two days has your opinion on him changed at all?

Gerhard, is that post 388 supposed to say "I have had NO qualms"? I'm assuming thats what you meant to say but I just want to make sure.

Waayyyy too "ok" with every viable option. Throughout the day you failed to establish a legitimate and questionable position. Therefore you "rode" the tide during the day in order to avoid suspicion. I wonder what role has motivation to do that?

I still have a protown read on kik, even with her recent post. I looked over her ISO and she had plenty of her own thoughts. I don't ever see fear in her posts about pointing out new things or suggesting new suspects. To me, this looks like you just found an easy target and latched on, which she may well have been going for if she was doing this to collect reactions from people.

The whole point of this post was to cast a vote, but I'm still torn in between a Raider or Xvart lynch. If I don' hear from xvart soon, or more likely now his replacement, I feel comfortable with

vote: Raider

[Slaxx]

The whole point of this post was to cast a vote, but I'm still torn in between a Raider or Xvart lynch. If I don' hear from xvart soon, or more likely now his replacement, I feel comfortable with

vote: Raider

Do I get a reason as to why you are voting me?

Post 385. I said I'd iso other people. I didnt want to place a vote before I looked over the thread one more time.

[Slaxx]

The whole point of this post was to cast a vote, but I'm still torn in between a Raider or Xvart lynch. If I don' hear from xvart soon, or more likely now his replacement, I feel comfortable with

vote: Raider

Do I get a reason as to why you are voting me?

On that same note, I asked you a question in the post. You probably didn't read it, though, because you had ask why I was voting for you.

[Slaxx]

Raider, I am still trying to make sense of you picking HH as vig. I assume that as a night-vigilante, you would try to NK the person you find scummiest. If this is correct, in what way did you find Hacker scummier than everyone else. If it's not, why wouldn't you NK the scummiest person around? That choice really doesn't make much sense IMO.

If you look at his previous post, it was 'on a hunch'. The chance of killing the same person mafia did is 1 in 10. (12 to start-suave, and not including himself). In essence, the chances are slim. And out of all people HH doesn't seem right, as many others have said.

[Slaxx]

Thats what I was thinking too GK (about there being a SK). And I'd really like to hear from xvart's replacement. He became more and more of a lurker. In reality, so has GC. Xvart hasn't posted in almost two weeks.

[Slaxx]

With both the Jailor and at least a role blocker gone you should be able to investigate tomorrow. If you survive the night.

(no I'm not saying I believe his claim yet)

Thats all you have to add after reading pages of text? Please tell me more. I want to know your suspicions on some people. I'm still leaning towards xvart SK (if there is one) or possible scum. He just lurked like crazy. Green Canyons lack of posting worries me too, but his posts have been way more contributional (that a word?) and have made pretty solid claims.

As far as scum suspicions, another one is peanutman. He voted Nacho right away, seeming to go more in the direction of the 'easy lynch' rather than take time to talk. Its not like peanutman hammered, but now he's kind of on 'the safe vote', even if it is the only one. However, comparing these two, I feel more would be gained for the town if we put some pressure on Pulindar.

Going on this,

vote pulindar

[Slaxx]

Yes, but lack of posting creates doubt. We don't know whether xvart just gave up or actually lurked. Thats why its my

suspicion

. However, take your timereading and formulating, any extra help is appreciated.

[Slaxx]

@nachomamma8: If you look at the dates on posting, xvart lurked to more of an extent near the end of his reign than did 5cvm, but I do see where you're coming from. I don't know what he was doing, honestly. It seems to me he just came here to screw around with people, cause trouble, and leave. I'm still unaware of why he would make a weak claim about you.

@Green Crayons. Sorry.

[Slaxx]

Nacho, he goes over all that in post 474 ( which ever post he claims in).

Honestly, I dont know what to make of the claim. There doesnt seem to be enough NKs to justify any extra destructive (as in deadly, i.e capable of kills) roll, but a PGO, based only off current nks, seems more plausible.

I dont understand why, however, he only claimed AFTER conversation on PGO has started up.

Heres my thing: Unity played like Sk because of super lurking. Peanut played more like PGO and seemed more protown. Ive reached an impass. I still have mac's question to answer, so basically I'm going to have to do more reading on xvart and peanutman. For right now, however, I'm leaning more towards PGO for peanut than SK.

[Slaxx]

Peanut, why did you not claim at the very start of the day? Claiming at the very start of the day only makes more sense. Less confusion, and more believable. Waiting until talk comes up about the role and then confessing just doesn't make sense. No, in essence, you've weakened your claim and its merit.

[Slaxx]

@Mac: The one thing that concerns me about xvart was his last few posts were all replies to questions that he had been asked. Its almost like he was trying to stay with the town flow and answer questions without ever really actively scumhunting.Take note that those two posts (ISO 17-18) occured on jan 10, he picked up a prod jan 9th, and before that he hadn't responded in 5 days. That post was just a vote with, ironically enough, justifying his vote by saying Mrsuave was lurking. Of course, in xvart/ pulindar's defense, we see where lynching lurkers got us.

[Slaxx]

Sure, we might nab maf, but a mislynch leads to either the 1st or 3rd scenario. However, As far as i can comprehend this, it makes the most sense.

I've alread pointed out my problem with xvart. Do you have any suspicions/ a scumlist?

And GK, what do you think about all of this? You've been absent for a while.

[Slaxx]

True, but I dont see anything else that indicates pulindar's protown. He promised us reads, which we still haven't. His two suspicions are based on 'gut feelings.
His first post explained his work situation, his second post pointed out something obvious, his third post defended himself and gave a promise of more content, his fourth post still promises content and he makes scum accusations based off on gut feeling/ posts his thoughts on SK, on his 5th he agrees with you and mentions knocking SK first, and on his sixth simply agrees with you and everyone else (save for macavity).

When you look at it under ISO, he's looked busy without ever really doing much besides speculate on SK.

[Slaxx]

Okay. Mass prod picked up.

@Xvart: You've had two full days, 1 a weekend day, to catch up and post these promised reads on people, Without having any extra conversation to pick up on, and you still haven't done so. Is there any point in time you think you'll have these up?

@ Peanut: Besides your reffered post on Nachommama, do you have any other reasons for voting him?

@GK: You still didn't answer my question about your opinion on the recent events. You used it as kind of a que to get back in the game. Don't you think a claimed cop (even though he is un-cced) should be more protown just in case you get investigations results tomorrow? Don't you think that would increase the merit of your results?

[Slaxx]

Crap, no, I meant Pulindar. Slaxx is namefailing up the butt. Sorry, Pulindar.

[Slaxx]

Peanut, I read that as more of "whats your opinion on scum", although I do agree there is a better way to word it.

Peanut, this seems kind of OMGUS to me. Do you really blame us for doubting your claim when you held off so long? You've accused both people who think you're SK to be nervous scum. I'm still wondering about it, just to establish my position. NK records indicate a serious doubt in me, but you're behavior and manner in which you claimed just isn't sitting right with me, as I've already stated. I don't know if it warrants my vote, yet. You're definitely deserving of one more read and I'll come back with that as soon as I can. I still have my qualms with xvart/pulindar. If we do accidently lynch a possible PGO, as peanut said (yes i know hes on the defensive but he brings up a good point regardless), we could be lynching a very powerful role on our side.

tl;dr: Im whaffly on peanut and feel I owe him a good thorough read before a possible vote change.

[Slaxx]

After reading peanut's ISO I think he's PGO/town up until the time he starts defending his PGO claim. Irony at its finest. His play was very protownish and the NK records dont support an SK. My verdict:

Since peanutman had no votes on him when he claimed, and only a little pressure from Nacho, I think he is PGO or a townie with a bad sense of humor. I find it highly unlikely that SK, a role suited only for their own survival, would make such a risky falseclaim when they weren't in any direct danger. I know I previously said his claim was odd and probably late, which is true, but I don't see why an SK would make the claim until they had substantially more pressure (i.e. votes) on them.

I would like to know why peanut keeps changing his vote to whoever starts pressuring him though. Saying "your overeager scum because you want a threat dead" is assuming you're a threat. You're setting up a pretty false statement there, even if I'm leaning towards you telling the truth now, its still not something to make a case on.

As of now my vote for pulindar stays. His pointing out of similarities between reasons is good, but he still hasnt really justified his thoughts on Nacho, besides using someone else's logic, who even admit is not a very good case. This and his one connection is the only case he has currently. He's still saying he's going to read, even of his most recent post. Deadline's not far away, I think he's procrastinated long enough. We shouldn't let anyone sneak up to deadline without some sort of idea on their stance on scum (with an actual case).

That being said Nacho has switched around votes a lot. The first two were fairly well justified, but I dont get the logic between the GC votes. Just earlier when I asked of his suspicions he said he had been a big fan of GC's posting, then he votes him because of his "gut". Also I believe he said something about 2 mafiosos. I'm not good at balance, because I haven't played too many games, but assuming a certain number of maf left seems off to me, especially with the SK/PGO variable still incorporated into the gameplay mechanics.

As far as Gerhard goes, another empty promise on a read. When people promise a read 4 days or 5 days, idk what it is now, before deadline, and promise it soon and don't get it up, Its probably not good. He's been kind of standoffish this day too, and I would think the real cop, as I have said before, would try to be more protown in order to give merit to his claim. I see his reasoning of not caring too, at the same time: If he's not scum, and he claimed cop, chances are he'll be the nightkill and probably doesnt care about the game. Regardless, the action is still rather unjustifiable as he isnt playing to a town win condition.

MY stance right now is Pulindar or GK. Possibly Nacho.

I'll probably give it another good read thursday when I only have 2 classes, see if I'm overlooking anything.

[Slaxx]

Nobody was mentioned in my role PM.

I can't Follow 5cvm's logic as to why he would say that.

[Slaxx]

As far as your case on Mac I see where you're coming from, and I think i might be up for a Mac lynch. Obviously the peanut lynch is pretty evenly split. The post you pointed out about wolf and Mac at the beginning of day 2 really bothers me. I have read over all these back and forths once, but I owe them another read before I can give you a legitimate answer.

I agree with pulindar in saying that GK's cop claim is still one of uncertainty. I'm reading over his ISO and I only see where he claimed cop. Are you the one who noticed these, or did he point them out somewhere and I'm just missing it?

[Slaxx]

Sorry, i meant to mention the breadcrumbs and totally left it out of my sentence. I meant to say:Did you notice the breadcrumbs, or did he point it out and im just missing it?

[Slaxx]

What do you mean "comment on upcoming deadline"?

[Slaxx]

I gave GC the same thing I'm giving you. Another read from GC's case on before I make a decision. Ive only read over the last few pages once, as theyve been posting.

[Slaxx]

You want me to comment on our indeciciveness?

If you're asking why my comment wasnt longer or more thought out its because it was late at night. And restating a question doesn't make it any clearer, just so you know.

[Slaxx]

I disagree. I don't know what he means by that, so I sure as hell can't explain to you what he means by it. You have every right to pick it part, but I think you're reading too much into it. .

[Slaxx]

WOW lol everyone came out of their holes.

[Slaxx]

I'm going to hold off until Nacho gives an explanation, but I think what I have to say will be better if Followed by Nacho's explanation.

[Slaxx]

Okay, I've been really busy with school, and probably shouldve requested a replacement, but this is a little ridiculous. It didn't take much time at all for me to be at L-1. I wanted to wait to see what Nacho had to say for a reason, and voting me without giving me the chance to reply is kind of what I was looking for from the other possible scum.

I am Benjamin Maddox, a high ranking employee of Klein and Utterson's. I have been tasked with tracking down the threats to the institution.

Alignment: Town
Role: Tracker

I tracked Gerhard n1 and got a visit to kiku.
This is one of the reasons I was wary about commenting on the Gerhard lynch. People seemed to accept his cop claim so I had no reason to intervene. I figured I might throw some suspicion on it just to make it seem I had no idea of his role. I'm not saying i did anyway, Even with the track he couldve just as easily roleblocked etc. Kiku anyway. With the possibility of Peanut being SK, even though I didn't think he was, I still didn't out myself. Especially with no guilty of any sort. I figured remaining quiet and making myself an easy mislynch target for tomorrow and pray for something would be my best bet.

I tracked kiku night 2 for hammering so hard on me (I figured she knew who I was, via a stalker-ish role, but turns out i had the wrong person but right idea. WIFOM fail)) I got that she targeted Gerhard. Obviously I got my answer come the next morning. Once again, no reason to out myself. Also, i figured if i might get a little more info on why Gerhard visited kiku.

I tracked Macavity n3 and got a no result (roleblocked/no visit?) I went ahead and investigated Mac since one of the people I trusted more had a scum read on him. His interactions with ecto were enough to justify (in my mind) the investigation.

I'm still a little lost to how the game mechanics work, I'm used to epic mafia, thats why those questions are in parentheses.

Anyway, I'm not voting yet. Yesterday it seems GC thought 1 of Nacho or Mac was scum, and I agree. My no visit doesn't mean much with the possibility of a roleblocker (fairly common scum role). I am wondering though, if no result is the same as no visit? Has anyone else played tracker/ familiar with the mechanics?

I breadcrumbed a little bit when GC asked me about my role PM yesterday (I can't "Follow" 5cvm's logic, with a capital F) and then the same thing before Nacho posted today. (I think peanut even quoted one of them, lol). Follow=Track, sorry, I'm not an English Major.

Maybe it was a fail on my part, but I didn't even think to breadcrumb until GC brought up GK's.

Anyway, with no real clears or guilties, I'll have to present my cases on the two I think are scum. Just give me time. I have a part time job/ full college schedule but I don't want to quit and ask for a replacement either.

[Slaxx]

Eh, I'm going with it. I know I'm not scum, and pulindar isnt going to hammer his buddy, and like peanut said mac wouldve hammered by now.

vote Nacho

[Slaxx]

Gerhard's visit couldve just as easily been a roleblock, rolecop, or anything else. I wasnt for sure.

[Slaxx]

And out myself? Not with a possible SK and what seemed to be a roleblocker. Itd go to waste.

[Slaxx]

Thought to be, not for sure.

Two kills instead of one, making it more likely I would die if I claimed.

[Slaxx]

Gg Nacho. You were right on the money, and probably deserved the win. I can't say I wouldve played any different as town though, College hit me like a freaking brick wall this semester. I probably would've lurked regardless.

Mac deserves a lot of credit, he was the one who talked me through everything. This was actually my first time playing scum, and I appreciate his help.

Hopefully Wolf comes in soon so we can hi five and whatnot.

[Slaxx]

Of course I'm all for it.

I think we worked well together too. Those three minutes in between our votes were the longest three minutes of my life.

[Slaxx]

I have to echo Nacho's sentiments on the setup. This is my favorites setup so far.