Mini 927: Alabama Correctional Facility - OVER

[SpyreX]

Shoving party?

And Max claimed third party? Yeehaw

Shove:
UncertainKitten 2
Minineko 3
Ellibereth 4
Jahudo 5
SpyreX 1
Max 12
farside22 7
HackerHuck 8
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 9
Cobalt 10
pwnman 11
Grimmy 6

[SpyreX]

I just spent a great deal of time trying to find out my wincon then in the rules it cleared it up when I read that there are no serial killers. Unless I'm another third party role.

So you had NO win condition and opted to leap to "serial killer" / "another third party" instead of just asking where your win condition was?

I know its a prison and all, but something smells fishy.

[SpyreX]

Yea its just like complicated voting. Random shoving doesn't hurt anything.

I still want to understand the leap from "I have no win condition listed" to "I am third party / sk"

[SpyreX]

Your new shoving order replaces the old one completely.

So, see, if the idea is SpyreX is town then when people who had been all willy nilly start giving me ones and twos then I shift.

The previous "WACKY HIJINKS" ones don't hurt anything because they are replaced with the new ones.

Unless the idea is "don't ever, ever, ever make a shove order" then random shoving doesn't, in fact, hurt anything once it moves to real shoving.

Like this:

UncertainKitten 2
Minineko 3
Ellibereth 4
Jahudo 5
SpyreX 1
Max 12
farside22 7
HackerHuck 11
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 9
Cobalt 10
pwnman 8
Grimmy 6

[SpyreX]

Considering nothing happens for two weeks and by then everyone will have some shoving votes out the average gives each person the same weight (unless someone 12's themselves or something hijinkily)

[SpyreX]

And I'm PRETTY sure the average just replaces whatever vote set switches with the new one and recompiles via Excel.

So

[SpyreX]

Gimme a couple hours after some OTHER game madness ends and I'll re-explain. I promise though that the shoves now are no worse than random votes.

[SpyreX]

Huzzah, the yesterday madness took longer than expected.

Now, to be clear, I said that random shoving is no worse than random voting - because it isn't. Unless, of course, someone is making the arguments of:

1.) OMG deadline wasting time.
2.) Random shoving makes ??? harder.

(both arguments, of course, hold water like a sieve)

The averages are averages of the last shoves done by each player. So, once a new shove is performed the old shove goes away.

So, as the game moves forward and real shoves with real reasons are placed out, much like a random vote in a normal setup, the old shoves are there to look at but do not alter the current average for who is going to be lynched.

----

I don't know why people think random shoving is a good idea at all. FOS: spreyx and Super Awesome Mega Pimp for thinking it is.

Not bad != good. It is just the same as a random, no more, no less.

All people have to do is be active to keep from going to the bottom and being lynched today.

And, really, this is different than most games how?

[SpyreX]

If that thrust actually does anything you crazy clown I swear.

Seriously?
Dude unless you are not reading this game it is the person with the lowest average that will be lynched today. Not the person with the most votes so if the scum team is an active bunch that has nothing to do better in their lives but to keep themselves from having their average at the bottom the likelyhood of getting scum to the buttom is going to be hard.

Nah I don't ever read. Come on now.

The lowest average is a function of the shoves (i.e. votes) of all players

last shove

.

So, much like votes on D1, being active and not running around on fire is a pretty solid way to guarantee you're not going to be the lynch.

If someone is showing as the lowest average that we don't want lynched? Change your order and push them up. If others dont, you can analyze the bandwagon if the flip is town.

Although more complicated, the basic concept of the shove mechanic versus the voting mechanic only differs in that it doesn't require a simple majority to lynch - instead, it's going to require a simple majority to shove someone to 12.

[SpyreX]

I know I'm just gonna be sadddd if you did.

Maybe I just remade the entire voting graph and have shove updates.

Maybe looking at the numbers is interesting and delicious.

You murderer!

[SpyreX]

Just for posterity.

5.6
6.7
5.0
5.7
4.3
6.4
6.3
8.0
7.7
7.7
8.4
5.8

Thats what we're looking at right now (assuming all things being equal / me making no mistakes)

[SpyreX]

First off, I'm not entirely sure that you're correct so it's not helpful to keep random shoving in case it is an overall average. Secondly, a whole bunch of useless shoving does harm the town because we don't get a good idea of who is scummy. You're arguing that random shoving doesn't put anyone in any danger. Random voting kind of works because it can start wagons. Without that kind of a mechanic, random shoving just fills the thread with noise and we're not really going anywhere with it. That's a pretty crappy way to find scum.

I'll leave Jah's quick response to that part but, again:

NOT BAD DOES NOT EQUAL GOOD

I'm not advocating "hey lets random shove all the live long day".
I'm saying, very clearly, "the random shoving is no better or worse than a random vote".

And it doesn't give a wagon, but it does give interesting bits of analysis:

1.) As of now, only Elli and I have no double digit placements.
2.) Cobalt has the most double digit placements.

Now, this KIND of makes sense but it lends credence to the fact that not all of these placements (sans a person voting themself) are random - or, like one would suspect, just going down a list.

[SpyreX]

Sheesh, I'll redo it:

1. UncertainKitten 5.6
2. Minineko 6.7
3. Ellibereth 5.0
4. Jahudo 5.7
5. SpyreX 4.3
6. Max 6.4
7. farside22 6.3
8. HackerHuck 8.0
9. Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 7.7
10. Cobalt 7.7
11. pwnman 8.4
12. Grimmy 5.8

----

If you see something you don't like on that list, change your vote.

For example lets say we wanted me to die and pwn to definitely not.

All we'd have to do is have people re-shove and alter their numbers.

[SpyreX]

Yea I'm just making the statment that there is data to be pulled. I could probably figure out most of the individual points but EFFORT.

And Cobalt may have killed me like a hobag.

[SpyreX]

Que?

I have with no shoves counted: Max, Cobalt, Hacker

I'm not keeping track of numbers of the others because they dont alter the fundamental numbers.

Averages right now are based on 9.

[SpyreX]

Ok, I get it now.

Note: You can disregard this if you want

------

Lets say in this setup there's only 4 players. Abe, Bob, Cal, Dan

Abe shoves (1,2,3,4)
Bob shoves (4,1,2,3)

At this point there's only two sets of shoves so we just add and divide by two for: (2.5, 1.5, 2,5, 3.5)

NOW, Cal finally comes in and votes. Abe decides to OMGUS Bob at the same time.

Abe shoves (1,4,3,2)
Bob still has shoves of (4,1,2,3)
Cal shoves (2,3,1,4)

So, Abe's new shove replaces the last and there are 3 so we divide by 3 for (2.3, 2.6, 2, 3)

Dan jumps into the fray!

Abe still shoves (1,4,3,2)
Bob still shoves (4,1,2,3)
Cal still shoves (2,3,1,4)
Dan shoves (4,2,3,1)

So, now we're at 4 (where we will sit for the rest of the game) so divisions of the new set by 4 give: (2.75, 2.5, 2.25, 2.5)

So, as it sits, Abe would get lynched.... BUT, Cal claims a N0 investigation on Bob of scum so the everyone switches accordingly:

Abe changes to (1,4,2,3)
Bob OMGUS to (3,1,4,2)
Cal changes to (2,4,1,3)
Dan changes to (3,4,2,1)

Which gives a new tally of: (2.25, 3.25, 2.25, 2.25)

So, Bob would get shoved out.

Now, informationally SpyreX watching this would definitely question why if Cal had a scum on Bob he went: Cal shoves (2,3,1,4) initially and didn't put Bob as the 4 but you get the idea.

[SpyreX]

YOUR NOT THE BOSS OF ME

[SpyreX]

I'm in love

[SpyreX]

....

Now my numbers are off ever so slightly and I'm not sure where it happened.

[SpyreX]

AHA, my numbers aren't off. Max did it wrong again and I add it in.

What are the problems people are still having?

Further, if you still have problems, why would you reshove?

Shovin' Time
1. UncertainKitten 2
2. Minineko 8
3. Ellibereth 7
4. Jahudo 3
5. SpyreX 1
6. Max 11
7. farside22 4
8. HackerHuck 12
9. Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 5
10. Cobalt 9
11. pwnman 6
12. Grimmy 10

[SpyreX]

Awww. <3

And yea I've been talking about the mechanics quite a bit for some odd reason.

Well, not all that odd considering the hulaballoo my comment made.


However, maybe I'm looking at a different game but the idea of people being SRS BUSINESS at this point as reflected in Max's post is disingenuous at best.

[SpyreX]

Thats fine but when push comes to shove (BAZING) at least a handful of have the whole shove orders and, of course, can pull some voodoo out of that.

[SpyreX]

The idea that scum are going to be able to manipulate this in some super secret way is, really, not that huge of a concern - the shoves as a function of time AND looking at why each and every person moves a certain way is going to be huge.

If anything, having to each time scum votes have "reads" on each person is going to make this a lot harder scum-end in the long run.

[SpyreX]

You've got to be kidding me.

Shovin' time.
1. UncertainKitten 3
2. Minineko 8
3. Ellibereth 2
4. Jahudo 4
5. SpyreX 1
6. Max 10
7. farside22 7
8. HackerHuck 11
9. Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 6
10. Cobalt 5
11. pwnman 12
12. Grimmy 9

Max still isn't doin it for me.
Pwn's combination of posting his PM at that juncture AND saying that it was a coincidence absolutely floors me.
Hacker's town read of the above

technically

bothers me more, but.

Elli is almost blinding with the raw amout of town oozing out.

[SpyreX]

Apparently this post needs to be repeated:

Is it just me or did pwnman mostly parrot what I said?

SpyreX 6 - Plenty of mechanics talk, some of it necessary to get everyone on same page and off subject, but not much scumhunting.

SpyreX- Plenty of mechanics talk, some of it necessary to get everyone on same page and off subject, but not much scumhunting.

Minineko 9 - Lurker is anti-town. Lurkers needs to post more.

Minineko- Lurker is anti-town. Lurkers needs to post more.

Pwnman, what's up with the word-for-word repeats of my opinion of Spyrex and Minineko?

Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 3 - Lurker and non-shover pressure looks okay for now. But I expect something both super and awesome.

SAMP- Lurker and non-shover pressure looks okay for now. Is freaking out at Cobalt though so I left him mid-line.

The first sentence is exactly the same for this read too.

UncertainKitten7 - Has given a little bit of reads, but most posts are questions about mechanic.

UncertainKitten- Giving a few reads, but not much scum-hunting although not very scummy

These two look very similar, so why didn't you just copy me word for word here (if you'll admit to copying me)?

While I like people agreeing with me, this looks suspicious. Some kind of buddying or inability to make his own reads is going on here.

[SpyreX]

@Mod:

With someone removed, how do you want us to do it? 1-11 with them totally removed or?

---

Once I get that cleared up, yea, I'm shoving the hacker to the back of the line.

Max's post does all those things that are just awesome.

[SpyreX]

OHHH NO MORE CONJECTURE:

In flavored games I mod I also give scum full safeclaims. Its not that uncommon of a thing.

I really want to give the super push to Hacker but it almost seems too easy.

[SpyreX]

What do you mean by too easy? Too easy to find fault in his read, or the current suspicion on him has been flowing too easily?

The setup is too easy. Much like pwn being scum was.

It makes sense that a scum could take a position of defense when they're watching a town go down the doompipe... but after watching that flip be town I lost a little bit of conviction on the whole issue.

[SpyreX]

Wait a skosh.

Farside: Are you using the fact Cobalt said he's been voting for scum and slappywag there was modkilled and town as a function of him bein up to no good?

Really?

[SpyreX]

His flip being town doesn't change one iota that he was scummy as all getout.

[SpyreX]

I'm not buying this Cobalt case. Not as it sits, even a little bit.

1. UncertainKitten 5
2. Minineko 7
3. Ellibereth 3
4. Jahudo 4
5. SpyreX 1
6. Max 10
7. farside22 8
8. HackerHuck 11
9. Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 6
10. Cobalt 2
12. Grimmy 9

[SpyreX]

Town with a hat on? No.

It sure has hell isn't some kinda awesome scum dance, though. I'd much prefer to see a Hacker lynch after those shenanigans around pwn.

[SpyreX]

To counterbalance the wagon on him?

Something I can't normally do - its truly active negation. I kinda like it.

[SpyreX]

Wooo dag yo.

If "not following with the mob mentality" = "being scum" welp just go ahead and do us all a favor and lynch me today.

Seriously now.

[SpyreX]

I was pretty clear in saying that I dont think its a scum-move and painting it as such when there are other behaviors is well, awesome.

[SpyreX]

The back-to-back exact same lynch lists creep me out.

I reserve the right to call out the biggest I told you so if Cobalt flips town, FYI.

[SpyreX]

Just a solid vibe + how quickly and viciously everyone wants him to go the way of the dodo. More the second than the first - watching this build on itself gets my ire up.

He's either town or opted to set me up REAL early. In which case, major kudos.

[SpyreX]

With the way this is going down and especially the changes in these shoves I will eat all the hats if Cobalt is scum. Its not meta (meta is blah). Its a function of this game and still not getting the great scum machinations.

Yes. I'm holding to it. And Cobalt has raised a REALLY GOOD question about those two shove posts being exactly the same and ranking yourself that low. And then not questioning me who has actively been saying "Cobalt is town you chuckleheads"

[SpyreX]

What's this we? You have a mouse in your pocket?

Actually, was this talk of inverting anywhere? Or did both of you just happen to do it around the same time?

[SpyreX]

Thanks for clearin that up. Carry on.

Elli's got the right idea.

[SpyreX]

Deadline is tomorrow.

I'm not down with mini getting the push. I'll be readjusting my shove accordingly later today.

[SpyreX]

I'm looking bad because this game still has no meat and its pissing me off, quite a bit.

1. Slicey 6
2. Minineko 2
3. Ellibereth 4
4. Jahudo 5
5. SpyreX 1
6. Max 10
7. farside22 7
8. HackerHuck 11
9. Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 9
10. Cobalt 3
12. Grimmy 8

Normally I'd be totally down with a lurker lynch but, no. Not with whats been going on and a modkill ffs.

[SpyreX]

Ohh hells to the no

1. Slicey 9
2. Minineko 2
3. Ellibereth 4
4. Jahudo 5
5. SpyreX 6
6. Max 10
7. farside22 7
8. HackerHuck 11
9. Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 1
10. Cobalt 3
12. Grimmy 8

[SpyreX]

I'm absolutely floored at Hacker and Max and chuckles mcmodkill being town.

I'm even more floored at Max being the NK.

I'm not amused and more than a little lost now. I think, without saying, we shouldn't go all nilly with our loaves fo' sho.

[SpyreX]

I think you have it right Elli?

I'm not sure what that means in the grand scheme of things though.

[SpyreX]

I'm trying to read into the NK. Max seems off the cuff and I'm not sure why.

Of course I definitely need to recalibrate because I'm wayyy off this game anywho.

[SpyreX]

I have been debating whether or not its worth talking about what bizarre things happened.

I didn't get a vent, I had something else happen entirely.

[SpyreX]

Leg work on the last point?

[SpyreX]

I'm going to laugh if your PR is my fault.

And be confused.

*OHH SNAP SOFTCLAIM*

[SpyreX]

@Cobalt: Yes.

@Farside: Hmmmm, interesting.

[SpyreX]

Mini needs to pipe up.

I don't agree with Grimmy on Jah but I REALLY like 390 a lot.

[SpyreX]

If I had a handle on who was scum you'd know. All of the dead being town is still thrown me off base.

As for who I've got town-town vibes from? Grimmy and Elli. To an extent Jah and Cobalt.

The rest? Blah.

----

Realistically we had a very useless day one and thats throwing me off in conjuntion with the dead. I'm not stoked.

[SpyreX]

Look up that SAMP thing because that would be a fishy bag of fish.

I would love your gut on mini because I have.. nothing. Absolutely nothing. Thats why the last minute hijinks yesterday rose a flag.

[SpyreX]

Because I've came down with a case of the busy and I'll let farside present her information if it is going to move forward.

If there's even a snippet (and I'll look tomorrow) of you saying you wanted to look back at the lists and then you inverted them well.

[SpyreX]

Correction:

He copied Jah and then LIED ABOUT DOING IT.

Elli has illustrated my stance with the votes 100% - although I'm thinking taking it a step further and creating a chain and having A person funnel the votes to their final destination.

[SpyreX]

If I randomly said one plus one is three, that's not an alignment tell, it's just demonstrably stupid. The same is true of pwn's lie. I say pwn copying Jah was a little scummy only because of the possibility that it was an attempt at buddying.

In any event, I'm not saying there were no protown reasons to be attacking pwn or Hacker, or me for that matter. I'm saying Cobalt and Elli never gave any such reasons, and pushed townie lynches on rhetoric. And that is scummier than the Great Lakes.

You're missing the step that bothers me.

SAMP: One plus one is three! I figured it out!
SpyreX: Hey guys, One plus one is three! I figured it out!
GAME: Uhh... SAMP said that, why are you copying him?
SpyreX: I totally didn't I did this all on my own!
GAME: *guns cock*

Being wrong isn't the same as lying for no reason. If thats rhetoric that makes them scum well mark me down because holy hell thats the same reason I voted?

I'm already sorry that I pushed away the mini lynch yesterday good lord.

[SpyreX]

Huzzah!

Ok, I'm at the point where I want to pick someone to be a funnel for the potatoes. Then, get this party started.

[SpyreX]

Issue with my funnel idea? Scum, even if picked, couldn't really do damage without outing themselves AND it minimizes scum influence.

[SpyreX]

I was thinking along the lines of having one player collect all the two-shot taters and then voting as per normal.

But, whatev's thats hard to do now

[SpyreX]

The loaf.... IS MINE

I HAVE THE POWER

Hurl Slicey's Loaf to Slicey

[SpyreX]

Moonwalk Chokesham Cobalt's loaf at Cobalt

[SpyreX]

Its not going to be a big issue with a little creativity.

Or, if you will:

NOPROB

[SpyreX]

Well the examples are 6 with a space so space is a filler sooooo NO PROB

Anywho, back to the affairs of today.

Robothrow SpyreX's loaf to Slicey

THRWBAK

[SpyreX]

I am off. I can't get a grip on this game to save my life and I've been clear about that. Hard to start locked and loaded when you can't pull it together.

I'm honestly surprised no one even tittered at me thinking I was the cause of Elli's PR.

Incantum Grimmy's Nutriloaf back to Grimmy

[SpyreX]

Thats the thing I didn't send drugs. I PRAYED for you with the bible I found buttt

[SpyreX]

I elaborated because its not a function of my role but a function of what happened last night soooooo

[SpyreX]

Thats MY question?

I have no idea.

[SpyreX]

Much like the notes, vents etc everyone else has alluded to I had a bible and I could pray for someone. So, I prayed for Elli.

[SpyreX]

I'd really, REALLY like some substance from Grim about anything.

[SpyreX]

Attention everyone: stop waiting for someone else to make the next move.

SIR YES SIR

Launch Fighters: SpyreX's Loaf at SAMP

[SpyreX]

This is going to shape up to be illuminating. I think the lines are starting to get drawn.

[SpyreX]

As much as I'd love to say it was the case or the flip or anything I can't.

Its gut. Especially from the "everyone stop waiting for someone to do something" business.

[SpyreX]

Good lord I'm on vacation and posted ON THIS PAGE.

I don't like that soo much.

Like I said, cases schmases - it was SAMPS callout for action without performing said actions.

[SpyreX]

NILLA HR

[SpyreX]

COP GULT

[SpyreX]

NLY7HRD

[SpyreX]

FLVRHRD

Suspect: Cobalt

[SpyreX]

CONFUZD

[SpyreX]

FSIDEGU

[SpyreX]

NOSKRTE

[SpyreX]

OSNAP11

Suspect: Slicey

[SpyreX]

FSDEFLP

[SpyreX]

NOTAPET

[SpyreX]

NUMBER5

[SpyreX]

GRENTHO

[SpyreX]

CONFUSE

[SpyreX]

ROLEDUZ

[SpyreX]

NRULE11

[SpyreX]

3AND11K

[SpyreX]

LURKERS

[SpyreX]

LURRKKS

[SpyreX]

WHO DID

[SpyreX]

OHHSNAP

[SpyreX]

GOODLRD

[SpyreX]

CBLRSLI

[SpyreX]

TDYLNCH

[SpyreX]

YGRICON

[SpyreX]

OHHLORD

[SpyreX]

CULTWAT

[SpyreX]

VANILLA

[SpyreX]

RUL3N11

[SpyreX]

WHATJAH

[SpyreX]

WHATROL

[SpyreX]

SLIC YA

[SpyreX]

JAH NOT

[SpyreX]

MAILFLV

[SpyreX]

MKSENSE

[SpyreX]

MORTALK

[SpyreX]

BOOVOTE

Suspect Slicey
Suspect Slicey
Suspect Slicey

[SpyreX]

Wooosh.

I played 100% terrible. My lord. This is the worst game I've played (my play, not the game) in ages.

[SpyreX]

The only thing I can say is that I did honestly think between the rules I read I was fairly certain there was no cop. So it goes.

[SpyreX]

Note to self: Don't fakeclaim cop, especially when the rules don't support it.

Until I saw that I assumed you WERE a cop (I haven't read the setup notes yet) and just somehow got screwed by misreading the rules.

I don't feel as bad now.

Cobalt did a good job tying himself to me and managing to get enough backlash (especially the "they are scum together") that he fell off my radar entirely. Well done.

[SpyreX]

Hey now lets not be extra mean sheesh.

I played horribly, though.