Wot I Think (Written as I read, thoughts/feelings on players will change throughout.)
= Early exchanges on imprint theory are interesting. DeathNote brings up the idea of "imprint everybody!" first, then gets voted instantly by elvis and is suddenly very contrite about it all. Little early bus maybe? Limerickx's plan kinda makes sense - control who has abilities, wait for the scum to move, then work from that controlled group to find scum. It assumes scum will definitely get power roles to kill though. Imprinting till someone gets a kill power... hm. I dunno. However...
= Elvis_knits and my predecessor have it right. Fuck the dice.
= THe Buttonmen's logic in these first couple of pages is shitty and bad and adjective and feels scummy in that he continues pushing it after it's shown to be these things.
The Buttonmen wrote:
We can't play this game like normal if we want to win IMO, 8-4 is unwinnable by town in regular mafia, thus playing this like a regular game of mafia seems a terrible call.
= Wrong. That's only unwinnable if you have a town of fucking idiots, or really bloody good scum.
= VMD tries to shake things up, get discussion onto scum-hunting instead of breaking the setup, and SerialClergyman calls it "scummy as" but doesn't throw down a vote to back this apparent opinion up. Testing the waters to see what others think before committing? VMD calls him on this, and even TheButtonmen agrees it's not scummy, but then later on page 4 throws this out there:
TheButtonmen wrote:
You make yourself sound very dangerous to town when its in a game with a very very small margin of error. Also does this mean you will lurk / leave the game the moment you stop having fun?
...which I don't particularly like the look of. VMD's response echoes my own: I don't like gaming the system. iam is a good enough mod to have not left a system that players could break, and the attempts by Buttonmen to force the town into his plan feel like pushing away from actual scumhunting.
= Plum's entrance post is pretty good. Makes good point about Buttonman taking a while to comment on DN, and he still hadn't voted for DN at this point. Buttonmen spotting that DN's plan was screwy late, perhaps decided to give it a couple of pages, then bus? Claims the speed of the game's progress made it hard. Not sure I buy it.
= DN is flailing madly D1, can see why lynched. Buttonmen seems to love calling his reasoning "terribad" without really committing to calling him scummy for pushing such bad logic.
elvis_knits wrote:It should be obvious from my posting and mod questions on the first page that I didn't know mafia can't NK either.
= Yeah, 'cause I totally can't see you being smart enough to act that one out, elvis. ¬_¬
elvis_knits wrote:This is almost certain proof that we're both town.
= Wat. You're trying to clear yourself AND Clergyman D1 with this? You's be trollin'. Oh, and you both want both of you to be imprinted too? How bloody convenient.
= VMD is thinking the same thing I am at this point. It's like she was never replaced at all, she just got a sex change.
= Elvis' major malfunction is that she assumes an average level of intelligence, not a especial one. She doesn't factor in that scum could be really fucking dumb (and not realise they haven't got a NK) or really fucking smart (and realise it, AND play on this). Or maybe she does. She also assumes that "none of you really understand my playstyle". Essentially, she wants to rule the town. Play to her plan, or be scum. ¬_¬
= Buttonmen calls it. Four people at least, plus anyone who didn't explicitly say so, and Elvis clears... herself and Clergyman. Hypothesis: Elvis and Clergy arranged to clear themselves in the scum quicktopic via this method. DN and another scum played dumber/said nothing to ensure that if the plan went tits up, two rogue actives would NOT be connected to it. Alternative hypothesis: Elvis-scum links herself to Clergy-town to get both imprinted - 1 permanent skill for 1 temporary one in an 8/4 split would be quite acceptable to scum D1.
SerialClergyman wrote:Information like strong ignorance or strong knowledge of setup is more concrete than someone who 'looks' town, in my opinion.
TO
SerialClergyman wrote:
And it's not an overreaction, it's just a read. I think you're scum. *waves*.
= ...in one page, SC goes from trusting "information like strong ignorance or strong knowledge" to just going "meh, this is my read, i'm not gonna back it up much, VOTE TIEMZ NAOW" =/
= Serious WIFOM and chainsawing by SerialClergyman for himself and Elvis. A theme emerges. Ridiculous over-reaction by Elvis and SC against Starbuck, who was making some bloody good points.
= SC attempts to discredit everything Starbuck says because her comments on Elvis are about Elvis attacking DeathNote. Uhm... when most of what Elvis did for the first few pages was attack DeathNote, directly or indirectly, that's probably WHY DeathNote kept popping up in Starbuck's posting. It feels (justified by D2's outcome) that Serial was trying to pin Starbuck onto DeathNote in case DN went down. Which he did, and Starbuck followed.
SerialClergyman wrote:I never
accused
DN of being scum. The only time I even
insinuated
it was very early in the game
= Neat semantics.
= Messiah makes a point. SC/Elvis' entire Starbuck+DN=scum logic is based on them both being scum because the other is scum. DN is scum because starbuck is defending him, Starbuck is scum because she's defending DN. Yet... SC and Elvis are doing pretty much the same thing. By their own logic, then, they're doing something scummy...
= lewarcher taking absolutely nothing from the several pages so far is just...
= That said, he pulls it out and comes up with some decent content almost straight after.
Elvis_knits wrote:I want people to defend how they think it is reasonable to assume me and SC are buddies pulling a gambit.
= Uh, hey Sherlock, people have been doing that for quite a while by this point. (Pg 12)
= All of Plum's big post feels like ME TOO, but on EVERYONE.
= Oh crap, farside is in this game. Someone else I can't read too good. In fact, I can only ever reliably read Starbuck... and she dead. =/
= Elvis claims in post 292 to basically have a gut town read on on VMD/me, despite debunking/attacking much of what VMD said for several pages. =/
= Rockoner comes in, makes a big post (kinda like this one)
= DeathNote giving up at this point is pretty standard for him as scum, despite his "I NEVER PLAY THE SAME LOL" facade, and is the cue for the wagon.
SerialClergyman wrote:
I have a suggestion. Lynch DN, imprint me. If I'm wrong, and he's town, I'll be the next lynch, and I'll tell you all what my power was and where I used it and what I found. If I'm right, we lynch Starbuck and imprint me and elvis.
= OhsweetJebuscouldyoubeanymorefuckingobviousscumafterthisshitidkmanidk.
SerialClergyman wrote:Ok - different plan. Lynch me, imprint elvis. If I flip scum, lynch elvis. That would only cost you 1 day with imprinted scum. If I flip town, lynch Starbuck or Deathnote and imprint elvis again.
= Againwiththisfalsedichotomylineuplynchshitsrsly?
= Buttonmen has been quietly solid since his game-breaking attempts, which were anti-GAME rather than anti-town, and is giving me town vibes all the way through since. If we imprint anyone today I suggest him.
= Discussing how many imprints we want to make each day sounds like a damn good idea.
Proposal: before any actual hunting goes on each day, we decide on how many imprints (but not necessarily who). These discussions will be done and dusted with, we end them there, and they could also provide a certain amount of info. Would like thoughts on this.
elvis_knits wrote:
If she's scum, you're her buddy.
= This on Reckoner not commenting on Starbuck.
elvis: Starbuck has flipped town. opinion on Reckoner?
= Re: the scum PM - as a mod, personally, I always specify that scum have the night-kill power if they have it.
= Pug89 364 pretty much summarizes why SC is scum.
elvis_knits wrote:The lack of support for anyone indicates that we're not scum.
[quote="elvis_knits" Two confirmed town [/quote]
= Wat.
= Elvis and SC's interaction beginning of Page 16 feels so contrived, like they're trying VERY HARD to make it VERY OBVIOUS that they're NOT DAYTALKIN', K?
= Oh god SC just said "statistically" can we get back to scumhunting kthx?
Oh wait, he has a vested interest in keeping away from that.
SerialClergyman wrote:I concede all points. Not everyone has jumped on the wagon - rather mostly everyone (except DN and Starbuck, I believe) have expressed a willingness to see him lynched.
He is not your biggest suspect, but is it fair to say he's one of your biggest suspects? top 3?
So the language was slightly hyperbolic, now go back and read the content and tell me what you think.
= "Okay, so that was all shit, but IF i had meant something entirely else, you'd agree, right?"
elvis_knits wrote:I <3 post 450. So much win on it. When the guys posts stuff like that I wonder why nobody else thinks he's town.
= Do you? REALLY? =/
elvis_knits wrote:I just had a great idea...
Let's launch a counter offensive!
imprint pug; imprint plum
= Waaaaaaaaat.
SerialClergyman wrote:unvote, vote deathnote
executive decision. Let's continue this after a flip.
= Woah, who the FUCK promoted you, bub? Scum wanting to hammer on buddy to prevent a night for town with imprints?
= Yup, instantly pulls the "K, I HAMMERED SCUM, I ARE CONFIRMTOWN NOW K" shit.
= Oh, and now we have "K, let's keep chaining these lynches as I order you too, m'kay?"
SerialClergyman wrote:IF Starbuck THEN Vala.
= Starbuck flipped town, and yet from your reaction to my entrance, you're still certain I'm scum. By your fucked up logic of "FLIPS TOTALLY CONFIRM PEOPLE IF I SAY SO" I should be clear because Starbuck was town...
= VMD asks this very question and SC replies... OH WAIT, he doesn't. ¬_¬ So now I'M asking it:
Why, if Starbuck-scum would have equalled VMD/me-scum, is the opposite not true?
Vala Mal Doran wrote:farside22 wrote:
A vote means you believe someone is scum.
Well, I found a point we disagree on, then. It was early enough in the game that I really didn't have any suspects. Therefore, a vote to get more appropriate discussion going is perfectly acceptable imo.
= This, THIS, a thousand times THIS.
= Starbuck... is Starbuck. Good defence post, but she seems to have about 5 different threads running in her mind, which can get misinterpreted as scummy flip-flopping because they don't always get tied up properly at the end. I could have told you Starbuck was town about Page 12-13, tbh. She is, rather depressingly, the only person I have ever had a consistent read on on this site.
= Elvis' 606 - basically says that farside isn't scum-hunting, because she's attacking Elvis and SC, and looking at VMD/me. Uh... looks like scumhunting to me, Jim.
= End of Day 2 thoughts: EK and SC are buddying so hard it hurts, and pushed a crap wagon through on Starbuck. Messiah willingly hammered on command, simply saying "Her 'I don't see where I defended him" defence isn't very persuasive." WTF man, WTF.
= Elvis' 633 in D2 twilight makes me facepalm SO hard. Seriously? Putting your scummy push on misrep down to play style differences? I cannot believe anyone will swallow this shit.
SerialClergyman wrote:Starbuck - you seem to really take this hard and to be honest, I thought a lot of your catchup post was AtE from someone desperate.
= I haven't read this much bullshit since Sarah Palin's biography. Starbuck ain't teh bad guy, guys!
Okay, I wanted very much to get through all of this but it's 6:20am, and I have to go get ready for work having not slept because I forgot to pick up my meds yesterday so FFFFFFF D< I will finish this afternoon, until then,
Vote: SerialClergyman, FoS EK, Messiah, Imprint: farside22
