Mini 896 - Jekyll Mafia - Game Over

[peanutman]

So I've had a chance to catch up on most of the day (started reading before mod confirmed me as replacement). I will post my thoughts on the game up to now as well as ask a few questions of my own this evening. Until then,

unvote

.

[peanutman]

I will start by sharing my first impressions on everyone followed by a few targeted questions. (sorry for the long post, though it is my first one, and my others will hopefully be more specific about someone or something).

raider8169 - I sense some lurking on his part. I also remember someone saying he might be playing the part of a clueless townie though he is experienced and I would have to agree because the false dilemma issue seemed plainly obvious to me when I first read it. Also his iso24 ("I have a hard time reading most of this thread") where he talks about people posting walls of texts irks me because I have trouble seeing an experienced player make that kind of comment, because I am sure he has played in similar games before. I don't know why, and I'm not sure if it's a scum-tell but I really get the feeling he is trying to make us underestimate him. I'll keep a close eye on him.

HackerHuck - Get the feeling he has a strong head on his shoulders, thinks quite logically and rationally. Would like to see a bit more proactivity in the scum-hunting because I think it could be quite beneficial to the town, but I know there isn't that much to go on in D1.

MrSuave - Get the feeling he's not very much into this game, not looking to defend himself, even when the spotlight is directly on him. I agree that he has tried to lurk the attention of him which does unsettle me, but his non-chalant attitude seems more anti-town than scum to me. However, I would have no qualms seeing him lynched today because he isn't contributing in any way.

kikuchiyo - In the later stages of this day, seems to have taken the town lead (i.e. posting a lot, promoting the 2 wagon scenario). As much as this is helpful in organizing the town, it is also allowing others to go unnoticed (i.e. Unity, my predecessor, barely posted but no one really said much about it). Let's not get too focused on Day 1. On another note, I completely agree with the false dilemma she raised (as well as it not being scummy on raider's part but rather a null-tell mistake) but she seems to have pushed it too far for a simple mistake. I realize that 5cvm and Raider fail to see the error, but I feel you are trying too hard to gain points when you could've just dropped it.

wolframnhart - liked his second post, clearly is putting effort into the game. However, he seems to be following the town flow since then (looking at 5cvm and mr. suave mostly) and I would like to see him follow up on his "hard to tell reads" on other players, widen this thing up.

5cvm - Get the feeling that he is a townie looking to shake things up in a quite unorthodox manner. That being said, he is a liability to the town at end-game so would like to see him go before then.

PHANTOM - The biggest lurker in this game up to now. Has focused exclusively on 5cvm until Hacker (if I remember correctly) called him up on it. Has since posted comments on a few player but it all seems forced. Will need to step it up and contribute to this town more effectively.

Nachomamma8 - Has already had two "heated debates" with Gerhard Krause that haven't really seemed that important in my eyes. However, he noticed that Mr Suave only had 1 vote on him even though pressure was mounting, so is certainly following this game well. Would like to see him widen his scope, and not tunnel so much on certain players (i.e. Gerhard debates).

xvart - I get the feeling he his keeping tabs on everyone and following up on questions. Would like to hear about his other suspicions though, since I get the feeling he isn't feeling a scummy vibe from 5cvm or Mr Suave but wouldn't mind getting read of useless players.

Green Crayons - Get the feeling he doesn't want to rock the boat too much. Is supporting a 5cvm or Mr Suave lynch but feels quite strongly about Raider. I would rather see a player stand and out strongly pursue someone who isn't in the main spotlight than just go with the flow, and look ahead to following days to scum-hunt his prime suspect.

Gerhard Krause - Seems quite emotionally involved in the game (hence the two tirades with Nacho). I like that he turned his attention towards kiku even if it was against the regular flow of the game. However, I had the comments about "not having enough influence to persuade". I feel that the merit of an argument should be in how it is constructed, not by who says it. So please, follow through with your kiku case rather than sheepishly step aside until you get more political capital.

@ Mr. Suave, even if you feel the case against you doesn't need defending, you should scum-hunt and contribute positively.
@xvart, am I correct in thinking you don't feel that Mr Suave or 5cvm are scummy, but rather badly playing townies? If so, who does strike you as scummy currently?
@Raider, do you feel it is unjustified for me to think that you are dumbing down your play? Because I fail to see how you don't understand that the "5cvm or Nacho is scum" is a false dilemma (i.e. they weren't the only options).
@Green Crayons, if you feel that Raider is a strong suspect, why not pursue that rather than stick with 5cvm?

[peanutman]

@mod

, I unvoted on 296. Please update vote count 299 (putting me instead of Unity of course).

Fixed

Also, I meant to vote on my last post but was in a hurry and forgot.

Vote : Raider

, your play up to this point compared to the experience you have doesn't make sense. (according to your wiki, you have played in at least 10 games, though the page seems quite outdated so I assume much more).

[peanutman]

Unvote
Vote : MrSuave

He is proving to be a distraction in my eyes more than anything else. Blatant anti-town play, not contributing at all to the discussion, answering one-liners to some of the less important questions. Regardless of his alignment, he is hurting the town. If he isn't lynched today, and he continues to play as he is, he will only distract us from our task of scum-hunting and generating helpful discussions.

---

@Slaxx,

Looking at your first post, your three negative reads are on the top 2 vote-getters and me, because my predecessor dropped out due to lack of motivation. Your post seems big and informative but I don't really see anything new. You also fail to follow up on your reads by asking questions to specific people. After reading it, I see it more as a cautious summary of the game than anything else. There's also your use of words like "slight", "general" and "mostly" that seem to give your reads nuance, but I just don't buy it. It might just be my general feeling towards those types of posts, but I don't feel your first foray into the game was very helpful. I might just be overly critical but I'd like to see more pro-activeness on your part.

I also assume that you would vote Mr Suave but were waiting for an answer on his part, correct?

[peanutman]

EBWOP

Unvote
Vote : MrSuave

Now he's at L-1.

[peanutman]

It's using things like "slight town read" or "general town read" which seem to convey nuances in the reads but, let's be honest, at D1, can we really differentiate people that much? I don't think so. We can keep in mind certain actions which seem off, and take note of how people react, the way people say things, but on D1 to arbitrarily state that someone is townier because of them than another doesn't seem genuine to me. It's like trying hard to list all the players at the beginning of the game when it is neither necessarily or useful. I'd rather read someone's take on everyone and list their "game notes" instead of having a list of them, and reading that one is "townier" than the other. But this might be my meta-approach to the game that is developping more than anything. I'm not saying it's a tell necessarily, just not very useful IMO.

Slaxx, you also said you were waiting for a response from MrSuave before voting. He has made one post since. I know he is now at L-1 so your vote does take on a slightly different dimension than when he was at L-2, but do you believe he will be more forthcoming with info than his last post? Is that enough for you to lynch him?

[peanutman]

Why wait? If you have something to say please say it now. If you would like me to answer something there is no better time then the present.

Seems to me there are already things you could respond to. Starting with Green Crayon's 361 where he built a case on you based on earlier accusations as well as new stuff. I would like to see your answer to that. Especially with the mod gone until Sunday, we should have some time to discuss some of that right now.

[peanutman]

@Raider

1. About the RVS. This is a non-serious part of the game to break the ice. I was having fun with it and it did humor me. Still does in that people just dont let it go and it though I forgot that day one lynches are based off of the littlest things so I am amazed I wasnt lynched of that alone. I guess that is what happens when I leave for 6 months and attempt to jump without reading a game or two to remind me how sensitive people are to certain things.

Green Crayon's pointed this out specifically. The fact that you reject the whole argument because people are sensitive is not addressing it at all. I'll repeat what he said.

· To bookend this point, raider's post 304 takes a pot-shot at the legitimate criticism of his continued RVS, claiming that the criticism aimed at him on this point was because people didn't like him having fun and that they're just touchy about the RVS.

Nothing finer than a defense that attacks the person and makes up the reason behind their criticism.

This is by no means my first game and I do know what I am doing. I find this to be fun and how I want to play the game.

So, are you consciously playing a confused and easily misguided townie? If not, could you tell us what you are doing?

[peanutman]

Vote : Raider.

Would like to see him play more with reason and good analysis than by his mood. Actually contribute positively to the town, instead of trying to "change the conversation" because he didn't feel whatever was discussed was important.

[peanutman]

@MacavityLock, I must have missed Hacker's post given that I was focusing on Slaxx's response at that time. I have no qualms about voting Mr. Suave given his behaviour (what you called the "policy lynch") because I truly felt (and still do believe) what I wrote in 320. I would have preferred to see him flip scum but I think the town is general for it because we can now scum-hunt with suspects actually reacting as well.

Also, with your scumdar pinging on those who advocated a policy lynch on Mr. Suave, here is a comprehensive list.
xvart, peanutman, wolframnhart (the three you have mentionned)
Slaxx (his initial post re : Mr. Suave)
Kik (defended the idea of policy lynching a few times)
Nacho (I infer it is from : "I just re-read the votecount, and saw that Suave had 1 vote on him" (Nacho - iso36))
Green Crayons (iso 15)
Gerhard (iso 39)

I'm sure you'll find that it can't really be a scum-tell when two-thirds (8 of 10 not counting you or Suave) of the players mention it.

Add to that, Hacker's vote was a pressure one (iso 20), and it seems that the whole town wanted Mr Suave gone. I doubt that you could really count that as a scum-tell. I recognize it's your catch-up post but you should try to not be so selective with your scum-tell pick-ups.

[peanutman]

@Raider, I already raised things I felt were scummy about you yesterday. My comments next to my vote spring largely from your last comments before the end of the day. In terms of contributing positively to the town, I feel you have just been attempting to defend yourself without bringing anything new. I'm oversimplifying the issue by saying this, but your defense has really been largely discrediting the accusations against as being irrelevant or "that's just how I play". So, my vote is on your for a poor defense IMO as well as little contribution to the town compared to the amount of activity you have had.

Your last post that had somewhat pro-active contribution was about 8 posts ago (iso 32) and you have been pretty much exclusively on the defensive ever since. It's fine that you do that, but do some scum-hunting as well. You talk of generating discussion, but it's only been about you for the past little while. How about you detail your views on others, place a vote, or just do something else.

[peanutman]

Kiku, we should lynch slaxx because there's a chance we might've been steered away from him (i.e. 5cvm) towards Suave? And if we're wrong? We are a day further with fewer townies. I'd like to see some scum-hunting, some questions, not just a theory to be tested through lynching. I'm not saying slaxx cant be scum, but build a case on him, not just this hunch.

[peanutman]

I am awaiting Nacho's opinion on Raider. At this point I am getting the impression that Raider was "playing dumb" day 1. I would like explanation for this. He claimed to have experience and then embraced an obviously false dilemma and then defended it. Now, he seems to be doing a little OMGUS hunting. I don't like the "lightning rod" approach, but I understand it can be effective and if that was his goal, he seems to have attracted a suspicious bandwagon. I don't currently trust any of the players on his wagon.

You concede that Raider played in a dumb way (enumerated in your quote above), that he's play now is very OMGUS, and yet you're suspicious of all those who have voted Raider for it. There is clearly something that doesn't add up. If we don't vote for those who act scummy because they may/claim to be using the "lightning rod" approach, was does the town have left to do.

*Aside*
I guess we could all follow your hunch that scum deviated the 5cvm lynch for Mr. Suave. Or we could accept that when many people switched votes, 5cvm flaked while Mr. Suave was content with not addressing the case on him at all, without even scumhunting either.
*End Aside*

Kiku, I will offer you a suggestion. Instead of being suspicious of a group of people for different acts (i.e. all those who voted x, or everyone who does y), try building or more solid case on someone in particular. I mean, you were going somewhere with your list of raider's scummy actions, until you threw in "lightning rod" and seemed to absolve him of any suspicion (other than "I want an explanation for this").

[peanutman]

Raider, I am still trying to make sense of you picking HH as vig. I assume that as a night-vigilante, you would try to NK the person you find scummiest. If this is correct, in what way did you find Hacker scummier than everyone else. If it's not, why wouldn't you NK the scummiest person around? That choice really doesn't make much sense IMO.

[peanutman]

Krazy! I'm not sure if you realized, Nacho, that you were the hammer vote, but that's not cool in my eyes. Last we heard from you, you said this :

I'm not sure about the Raider case, but I'm going to look over peanut's/GC's cases and ISO Raider, and come back with an actual opinion on this.

Let's fast forward three days, and you come back with this :

Vote: Raider

I believed his vig claim pretty much completely at first. That is, until I saw post 424. And 427. And 433...

All you posted is that you believed his claim (what? when did you say that? until his final posts, without justification. Lazy, first of all, because you hammer with very little supporting arguments (rather vague ones), which could provide you with leeway to change your reasoning later on if necessary. Likely to also play the "I didn't realize it was the hammer" card.

I know this is based on Raider being town, because, let's be honest, odds are, early on, that the town mislynches. But, in the event that Raider is scum, I still suspect you for dropping such an out-of-nowhere, non-chalant hammer, trying to earn "town points" without really contributing to the town.

HOS : Raider

[peanutman]

Vote : Nacho

(explained in post 443)
EBWOP : meant to write HOS : Nacho in my previous post.

[peanutman]

V/LA until Sunday evening.

[peanutman]

Back, and catching up today. Regarding the 2 Night kills, the fact that there was only one on the first night really makes me doubt that there's a SK. Add to that the fact that we had a vigilante, it seems to me there's no one else there wouldn't be a third non-mafia role that would direct NKs. Therefore, an indirect one seems more plausible to me.
@MacavityLock, could you elaborate on the Paranoid Gun Owner role, because it seems more plausible to me than anything else?

Peanut, in 443 you mention the odds were that raider was town. And yet, you were entirely convinced before that post that raider had a high probability of being scum. If you had so much doubt about pushing raider to a lynch, then why did you seem so convinced he was scum? Also, did you think it was a badly timed hammer?

You are definitely playing with words on this question to make me look bad. I never said that Raider had a "high probability" of being scum. Sure, he was my main suspect, but my comment at 443 was that, regardless of who's lynched, the odds are that the town is wrong. In all my games, the town has lynched town over scum in the early days the vast majority of the time. For you to say that I spoke of the probability of raider being scum earlier on is misleading. I still don't like how you were inactive for a little while before popping in with a hammer vote, in effect, not having to contribute much more to the day because you ended it. And that is why my vote is on you.

[peanutman]

Thanks Macavity. I asked you for a reason, and after reading up on the wiki, I feel I should claim that I am a PGO. I am claiming because I feel I am a liability to the town. Flavor, I am Mrs Utterson, the owner or Klein and Utterson, and because I can't control my temper, I kill all who target me during the night.

I suppose I am the cause of wolframnhart's death. I even breadcrumbed this on my last post before the night. If you look at the first letter of each sentence (in the 2 first paragraphs), it says : K-I-L-L A-L-L. Wolf must've tried to get information on my role. I choose now to share this because if I don't , a doctor, a cop or any other townie who directs their ability towards me dies. And since my role has already seemed to take down one of the scum, I feel it's safer for me to be out in the open and prevent killing a PR during the night because they focused on me.

[peanutman]

Green Crayons, my role doesn't give me information on the bad guys. I've already said I found Nacho suspicious for dropping his hammer vote after being conspicuously absent with his posting for a few days before. As for the rest, I am about to re-read the thread today to widen my perspective and see what else I can pick up.

[peanutman]

Just a thought that might help convince some of you as well. What are the odds that, if I were SK, I would pick scum, a scum rolecop nonetheless. Wouldn't it see more likely that wolframnhart tried to investigate my role and died doing so? As for why I didn't claim at the start of the day, it's because I didn't know how to play the role, and wanted to hear a bit more about it to see if my intuition of claiming for the town's benefit was worthy of it. After I found out about the wiki topic on the PGO, I was convinced that it was the best play for me and the town as a whole. My breadcrumb on the previous day was to back up my claim if/when I wanted to do so. The fact that I caught a scum last night is definitely a bonus, but I don't want to risk losing a town PR in the following nights.

As for Nacho, did you even read my post completely because most of your questions are answered there? You are really not helping me get rid of my suspicions on you. It seems like you might be a flustered scum who doesn't like having an unkillable* confirmed townie around.
*Rather, if killed, I bring down a scum with me.
In case it wasn't obvious enough for you before, I'll quote it for you.

Flavor, I am Mrs Utterson, the owner or Klein and Utterson, and because I can't control my temper, I kill all who target me during the night.

I choose now to share this because if I don't , a doctor, a cop or any other townie who directs their ability towards me dies. And since my role has already seemed to take down one of the scum, I feel it's safer for me to be out in the open and prevent killing a PR during the night because they focused on me.

[peanutman]

@Nacho, really? I'm Mrs. UTTERSON, owner of Klein & UTTERSON. I own the institute that has been breached. As per the original post, the survival of this institute, of MY institute, is at stake. Even though I am also Jackman's mother, and therefore a hybrid, my alignment is still very much with the institute. You really look like you're scrambling to derail this and save yourself right now.

[peanutman]

@Green Crayons, I believed Wolf tried to investigate me last night and get info on my role, not NK me.

[peanutman]

@Nacho, you didn't mention the possibility that I am a townie. Honestly, if you think this through, why would I, as SK, make any kind of claim when I was in a relatively safe position without any real threat on me. I could have coasted along as SK, not mention anything until I was pressured. As for why I didn't claim at the beginning of the day, I honestly didn't expect to claim until I was pressured, breadcrumbing the twilight before to back my claim later, but with the talk surrounding a PGO or SK, and reading up more on it, I decided it was best for me and the town as a whole to claim. And as for why I didn't wiki the paranoid gun owner before, it's because my role pm didn't say paranoid gun owner, it said PGO with an explanation next to it, therefore I didn't know what PGO stood for. That being said, I won't waste more time trying to prove I am in fact what I claim until tomorrow (given pulindar's and nacho's assessments) unless you I'm asked. I'd rather we focus on doing some scumhunting right now. Will re-read the thread and post my thoughts by tomorrow.

[peanutman]

@Slaxx, the he dropped the hammer is the main point of suspicion. But there's also his series of questions on 478 which were all answered with my claim. He says that he just saw PGO and jumped on the reply. Although that may be true, the way he flipped out on it doesn't seem like a normal townie reaction IMO. There was also the last question that he asked that, looking over again, brings something else up.

If so, you do realize that would mean raider was your only suspect before, and you suspected me for dropping a hammer on your first and only suspect, correct?

Nacho, why is it wrong for me to suspect someone who directly drops a hammer after being absent for a little while? Even though raider was suspicious in my eyes, that doesn't mean that I ingore anyone who directs actions towards him. What you did was scummy in my eyes not because it was on Raider, but how it was done, regardless on who.

Will re-read the thread tomorrow morning and post my second suspect (with reasoning behind it).

[peanutman]

I agree that peanut is obviously the SK

I think that we can all agree that peanut is unlikely to be maf.

Why?

From me being obviously SK to questionning why I couldn't be mafia?

Anyways, peanut. Let's assume you're town. Who are the bad guys?

With questions like these, you seem to be pushing my lynch without really evaluating the validity of my claim. How could I know who the bad guys are? This questions reeks of an ulterior motive. Either you are a close-minded townie or an opportunistic scum.

All in all, I don't like your approach to my claim, and not so much because it's regarding me (though that did play a part in me looking into it) but because your close-mindedness is not helpful to town and your play is wreckless in my opinion. If you did realise that my claim is true, I am a huge asset to the town if played correctly.

Vote : GreenCrayons

[peanutman]

So, GreenCrayons, I decided to look at your interactions with Ectomancer/WRH. Didn't seem fair that you were omitted from this. I have listed all the interactions between you both (or three I guess).

Most of the mentions of each other are one-liners in support of the other.

· I like Ecto's post 104. Suave's 109 doesn't do much to impress me.

I like Green Crayons first paragraph.

Hmmm GC makes some good points there.

This is WRH's catch-up post, basically saying nothing of Green Crayons. Never follows up on this or encourages him to post more.

Green Crayons: Hard to tell. It seems like he is scum hunting, but has had too few posts or at least posts with real content.

This post was on Dec 30th. By that time, Green Crayons only had 8 posts. He was interested enough to look into Phantom and unity, but wasn't concerned about any other lurkers/non-posters.

"Kikuchiyo wrote: Both PHANTOM and UNITY have six posts in eight pages. Both are on the 5cvm wagon, and both have pretty much only been involved in that one particular discussion, not really adding much to it themselves."

That's a good point Kik, wonder if I missed something on these two during my read.

Green Crayons next post, he jumped on the 5cvm-wagon as well. Of course, WRN never looked into any of these people.

And that is it. In about 20 pages, they both mentioned each other only 4 times, and never in an attempt to draw attention to the other.

So, I am still comfortable with my vote on Green Crayons.

[peanutman]

A few things to note from my catch-up read.

1)

Macavity is convinced that an SK could completely screw over the town, yet is convinced the peanut is a pro-town PGO. This is scummy because he hasn't pursued the issue at all with peanut; instead, he's been begging for someone to make the case on peanut being SK so he can hop on the wagon himself without giving a whole lot of reasoning for it.

I must disagree with you on this point. Macavity has asked for a case for me as SK. To my knowledge, there's hasn't been a case, just some jitters at the possibility of a SK late in the game. Once again, look through how played the game before the claim, and how the claim unfolded, and I'm sure that you will see that a SK would have no incentive or advantage to play that gambit at that point in time.

2)

That doesn't actually answer my question. 5cvm already said that nobody was mentioned in the role PM. I'm curious if your "real role" could inspire 5cvm's "randomgambitclaim." Here's a recap of what I asked:
Green Crayons wrote:
Slaxx: Do you agree with your predecessor's claim in Post 138 that, " I clarified unambiguously that nachomamma was not mentioned in my role PM and that I think he's town. ... Although, if it ever comes time for me to claim, you will see that my randomgambitclaim was inspired by my real role. "

I think you are definitely pushing too hard on this. The way that 5cvm played this game, I give no weight to any of his comments. For example, the following quotes. Remember, that at one point, he was 80-90% sure of Nacho's role.

I have role information heavily indicating that Nachomamma8 is a member of the mafia.

To clarify, though, Nachomamma was never mentioned in my role PM. Nachomamma has recently joined my heavy town reads.

To me, this is clearly someone who tried an outlandish scheme (for whatever reason) and, honestly, I give no credence to his posts. Also, the fact that he flaked off the site seems to indicate so motive that is far beyond this game. So, GC, for you to pursue Slaxx well after the fact (quite a few days after) on this makes me feel quite uneasy. I think Slaxx already answered that question quite well. If he "can't follow 5cvm's logic", it's pretty clear that there's no information in his role.

3) Regarding GK's cop-claim, the fact that there has been no-counter claims and there was a mafia role-blocker should be enough proof, at least for the moment. We'll be able to catch GK later if there is the off-chance that he is lying. But until then, it's just not productive IMO to keep pursuing an un-countered cop-claim when there are much bigger fish to fry (read: GC).

[peanutman]

GC, why are you misleading with your comments? You basically state that given Nacho and ML are both convinced the other is scum, if one turns up town, the other must be scum (i.e. "we can just lynch the non-hammer if the hammer is town"). You completely ignore the fact that there is a possibility of two townies arguing against each other. Ignoring that is one thing. However, what is worse is that you could potentially be setting up two mislynches and, with 7 players left, that spells a town loss. Of course, there could be one scum amongst them, or even both, the fact they that are accusing each other of scum doesn't determine anything. So stop making these misleading and dangerous comments, it really doesn't help your "town-cred". It would be more productive to look at the case for each (and, btw, try building one on me if you're still convinced that I'm SK) on its own merits than just watch the fight from the sidelines and assume if a townie falls, the other must be scum.

[peanutman]

I've had enough of GK's game.

Vote : Gerhard Krause

He's clearly not town-aligned to be playing in this fashion and, to use his own words, to suggest he might have a special PR or whatever is WIFOM, as he would like us to debate. We can tackle the last scum tomorrow.

[peanutman]

Gerhard
A) If it was so important, I don't see why you wouldn't say it now. You are at L-1.
B) As scum, why would you give us any information that could help you. That would go against your own win condition.

Therefore, someone please hammer and get rid of Gerhard and whatever he's trying to do.

[peanutman]

Will be re-reading the thread in the next few days. Apart from Nacho's odd vote, any ideas why GK auto-destructed yesterday? I will look at him closely in the last few days to see if he dropped any hints/breadcrumbs from his investigations.

[peanutman]

At this point, there are two options in my mind given that Pulindar and Nacho have voted Slaxx and Macavity is against the quick-lynch.

Option 1
Slaxx is scum. In this case, either Mac is the other one, trying to avoid the lynch of his buddy, or Slaxx is being bussed. In this situation, I am leaning more towards a bussing.

Option 2
Pulindar and Nachomamma are both scum, trying to front end the lynch and win.

Therefore, I belive that Pulindar or Nachomamma are most likely one of the scum. Also, Mac can only be scum if Slaxx is as well. The same isn't necessarily true though, that is Slaxx flipping scum doesn't confirm ML as his buddy.

Need to think this through.

[peanutman]

Well, Slaxx's post has confirmed my gut instinct since the day started.

I believe Slaxx's claim. Therefore, Mac isn't scum because he would've hammered the townie otherwise. That leaves just Nacho and Pulindar. Hence, I will be glad to lynch either one today. But since Nacho started the day off with a vote,

Vote : Nacho

[peanutman]

Quick note about my role : I did struggle with how to approach the game. As Budja said, I was a huge town liability. Looking at both roles, miller and PGO, I believed that I PGO was the only option that was beneficial to the town, if they were aware of it. Claiming that I was a shapeshifter with both roles felt like it would be much to hard to convince everyone of, and if I stayed quiet, I would have to choose between miller, getting investigated, accused, and claiming miller after the fact (not much luck), or going with PGO and perhaps knocking townies out unnecessarily. I agree that I should have claimed earlier in D2 but I just didn't know enough about the role and how to play it yet. I breadcrumbed before the end of D1 as some kind of proof though I don't know how effective it was in the end.

As for the final day, I made up my mind that it was either Nacho-Pulindar or Mac-Slaxx. What tipped me towards believing Slaxx's claim, in the end, was the fact that he joined MafiaScum in 2010, and yet he breadcrumbed his role, something I didn't expect for a new player on this site to do as scum. I guess I wasn't completely off given the "fake claim" that they received though it was very well executed. Well played scum!

There are still 2 things that bother me a bit, and I would like to understand the reasoning behind (if any)
1) 5cvm's gambit at the beginning
2) GK's gambit (was he trying to catch scum in his game or just wanting to quit?)