Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[farside22]

Post 1428 and 1430 is in regards to 1426.

[farside22]

TheButtonmen wrote:

Please stop trying to dictate who I can and can't be suscipous of. You find me odd/scummy/suspcious that's fine but

I'm finding it odd that you keep questioning me changing my mind or finding certain people suspcious

.

contradiction in one paragraph right on!
I asked you point blank why you found my claim suspicious and why you are talking about lynching me.
So far you have I went last but I pointed out certain things in the PM in a subtle way as again I was uncertain if scum would be told what person they were imprinted with and or a game to reference.
Also why would you assume I had a tracker imprint when I said I had no investigation role?

[farside22]

How do you know if Limerick was honest or not?

It's possible farside is lying, but I don't think she is. She could have just said vig like the two of you, she went last, she knew she couldn't be disproved.

I don't know he's being honest, I am inclined to believe him though based on how/when/what he claimed.

In regards to Farside, as you yourself said, Vigs are decent lynch targets, by claiming Doc she protects herself from that and if a NK does happen down the line she would get the suscipon from being imprinted however people would initally go for someone who had claimed Vig which would give the scum the free march they needed to win.

If I was scum why would I not shot anyone if I was given the ability?
IE: I could have framed you if I was scum and you were town quiet easily.

still quiet happy with my vote on buttonman so far. Let me know if people are still confused or have questions.

[farside22]

Because, as scum, it'd be more beneficial to wait a day or two and use your kill later, because then there's a wider field of candidates who could be the scum.

Why are you answering questions meant for buttonman?

[farside22]

So what should we do about imprints from here on out?

I really liked the lynch, look at flip, then decide imprints plan we had going, but now that we've done imprints once they carry over if somebody is scum.

If all the people imprinted from last night are town, it's like nobody has powers unless we reimprint.

If somebody is scum their imprint continues.

I'm just trying to think of what our strategy is from here on out... help!

I honestly don't know. The imprints felt like they got no information for the town. I'm starting to lean more on limerick as town more and more now that I have a theory on some things but I'm waiting for buttonman to reply to my question.
If buttonman is scum anyone imprinted and him not lynched will just lead to people questioning anyone imprinted if he shoots that night and WIFOM.
Basically I don't trust buttonman.
I don't want to be imprinted again. I'm tired of trying to explain to people things that makes sense to me and I can see scum making me their patsy at this point. (basically thanks but no thanks)
basically we imprint someone new I could see scum using this as a tactic to shoot at night to make someone look like scum. Imprint anyone tonight they may get that same tactic on them.
If you want to imprint anyone go for limerick. Use someone that already has been imprinted and don't let scum WIFOM.
I don't wish to be that patsy thanks.

[farside22]

Quote where you "pointed out certain things in the PM in a subtle way" as I apperntly missed it.

Didn't get a cop check. I want to hear from limerick and thebuttonman a bit since what I got had no investigation imprint and I want to see if anyone lies about their imprint before giving more details on how it works right this moment.

If we had imprinted two I would have shot Elvis, with three imprints vigging was too much of a risk.

What reference where you given for your imprint?

Any chance you going to answer my questions any time soon or do you plan on continuing stalling?

[farside22]

You claimed to be able to catch me or Lim if we fake claimed and said you didn't have a investigative role, thus the only role what would allow you to do so was tracker/watcher.

So far you have I went last but I pointed out certain things in the PM in a subtle way as again

I was uncertain if scum would be told what person they were imprinted with and or a game to reference

.
Also why would you assume I had a tracker imprint when I said I had no investigation role?

[farside22]

confirm vote: buttonman

I have asked you multitude of questions you have ignored thus far

If I was scum why would I not shot anyone if I was given the ability?

What about my claim do you find false and reasoning do you find false

See post 1419

Also what case do you have against me to what to see me lynched that did not satisfy your questions thus far?

[farside22]

farside22 wrote:
TheButtonmen wrote:
Quote where you "pointed out certain things in the PM in a subtle way" as I apperntly missed it.


farside22 wrote:
Didn't get a cop check. I want to hear from limerick and thebuttonman a bit since what I got had no investigation imprint and I want to see if anyone lies about their imprint before giving more details on how it works right this moment.



Not seeing where you ""pointed out certain things in the PM in a subtle way" in the above quote.

It's the detials of how it works it's more sutble but my second post was pretty blunt about asking you for a reference point (which I note you ignore completely)

[farside22]

I will write up a case on KOC more but I already had one on reck with his flip flop on day 2 and his next to nothing scum hunting is already noted by me.
I still want button to answer my questions he seems to dodge and then think he answered everything just fine.
Also If I feel someone is scum that was imprinted they could fire at someone tonight.
I don't like someone who says they would vig someone and they get a vig abiliaty. Also reck mentioned vigs on day 2 and something about if town had a vig. I need to check on that again.

[farside22]

confirm vote: buttonman

I have asked you multitude of questions you have ignored thus far

If I was scum why would I not shot anyone if I was given the ability?

You posted that at 1:57 pm, You accuse me of ignoring it at 2:25pm. Twenty Eight minuets, thats how long I have to answer your questions? Its the start of the day, I'm being super active (really your claims of me ignoring your posts is quite laughable) desptite the site lagging / erroring like a sack of dog crud. You dismiss what I say as OMGUS for daring to question you and Elvis and repeatedly accuse me of ignoring your question.

So no I wasn't ignoring your questions, however that's a policy I'm revising.

that one was 28 minutes ago the rest where all last night.

Also

Any chance you going to answer my questions any time soon or do you plan on continuing stalling?


I already answered that last night?

I did say questions and I pointed to the fact last night I asked questions you missed and didn't get to.

[farside22]

You dismiss what I say as OMGUS for daring to question you and Elvis and repeatedly accuse me of ignoring your question.

Mostly me on this again. Your case against me is what again?

[farside22]

You dismiss what I say as OMGUS for daring to question you and Elvis and repeatedly accuse me of ignoring your question.

Mostly me on this again. Your case against me is what again?

Sorry for the triple post but where did I say it was OMGUS for questioning us. I was talking about your post in wanting to lynch one of us.
lynching is not questioning as far as I was told

[farside22]

So just reading KOC in isolation he came in giving a big post on the game thus far and then nothing much else.
So I have some things that concerned me that KOC has ignored completely.

xRECKONERx wrote:
Farside, at first, didn't come off that scummy to me... but it seems the more she tries to defend herself, the more she digs her own grave. It's like I didn't see anything at first, but ek's attacks on her are actually showing her in a different light. It's nothing drastic, not yet at least, but she seems to be failing to defend herself properly.

= I don't agree with this. I think farside has defended herself adroitly. EK saying farside hasn't =/= farside not doing it. Elvis' whole "let's just agree you said what you said and I said what I said" shit feels like an attempt to excuse some misrep.

Before this post he imprints me but later states the following:

...I'm not going to get my SC lynch today am I? =/
-sigh- Very well. unvote; Vote No Lynch
imprint: Socrates I don't necessarily agree with his opinions on certain players, but he's coming across as a solid town read for me.
unimprint: farside22 Not as sure about you as VMD was.

How come no imprint votes from CTD/SC yet?

Both EK and myself have asked him why he posted the VMD was involved in the imprint when it was himself that did the imprint and it's an about face with no reasoning.

Finally with SC asking people to imprint me this is what he has to say

You and farside have been, to some lesser or greater degree, at loggerheads for much of this game while not necessarily calling each other outright scum. Suddenly she is a perfect third imprint, when I could have sworn we wanted two, and you're trying to hold off the nolynch until you get what you want. I don't buy it. Two imprints is enough for tonight.

Mind you most of his big post was calling EK scum with SC town so this post makes no sense at all.

KOC has been nonexistant to wishy washy with no reasoning so far. He has gone back a bit on what he said with his first post to this post and doesn't expand on anything or any reason so far.

IE: Koc looks scummy mostly for backtracking, non contribution and lurking.

[farside22]

My top choices to lynch today are Buttonmen or KoC

What do you think about what I and soc said in regards to imprints and what is your view now?

[farside22]

I'm not sure what I want to do yet with imprints. I am not the best at strategy so I need to work with other people to arrive at a plan.

I don't know why you don't want an imprint farside. The whole "I'm afraid of being a patsy" thing could still happen to you. If you've been imprinted once scum can still argue that you're scum who got a kill imprint, lied about it, then used it another night. What I mean is, if someone dies on any future night you can still be suspected. And nobody really suspects you anyway except OMGUSSCUMButtonmen.

So... yeah. I think that people who have already been imprinted, AND who we think are town, should be first up to be imprinted again. Because it keeps the pool of possible scumkillaz smaller.

Farther than that, not sure what I think yet.

Consider this more exhaustion on explaining everything, not getting answers and all my comments about buttonman today I make a great patsy for the scum team.
Sure someone could shoot tonight and cry WIFOM. It's partly the reason I don't think giving someone new a imprint is wise till the town feels 100% about everyone imprinted.

Nice of buttonman to answer your questions at least EK.

[farside22]

I say we imprint the same three people as yesterday and lynch KoC. Here here!

Why do you want to lynch KOC and why do you think that imprinting the same 3 people is a good idea?

[farside22]

Buttonman has out and out not answered the list of question I asked him yesterday.
Go team!

[farside22]

KoC lynch > Buttonmen lynch

Buttonmen imprint round two is the way to go.

Why?

[farside22]

KoC lynch > Buttonmen lynch

Buttonmen imprint round two is the way to go.

Why?

[farside22]

KoC is moderately scummy and a good lynch, we've already imprinted Buttonmen once, imprinting him again = autoinfo. If he's scum, then he'll probably kill eventually and we can pin it back on him or you or Lim. If he's town, then we're imprinting a townie again.

If buttonman is scum not only does he keep the imprint given yesterday he gets to keep a second imprinted (whatever imprint that is) to include into himself. He can chose to use either at that point during any night (maybe day if it's a day ability) he choses.

[farside22]

THEN WE LYNCH HIM
GAME OVER FOR BUTTONSCUM

What about......
you know what I'm just not going to imprint buttonman but I starting to think reck is having sound logic on lynching KOC over buttonman today.
Something just hit me.

unvote:
vote: KOC

[farside22]

farside, are you starting to think reck is town? Just wondering because you seem like you're trusting him at this point. My opinion of him is that I'm not hot on lynching him, although some of the old issues still stick out to me. Something about his manner is suggesting town to me though.

Anyway, I think KOC is likely scum too, and I will go for that lynch. However, buttonmen sorely needs atleast a bandwagon, and perhaps a lynch. Given the choice of lynching two scummy people, I would rather lynch the one who potentially has a NK'ING ABILITY.

imprint farside, serial clergyman, elvis_knits

Not trust per se I have those issues from earlier but something he said just now hit me like a ton of brinks and I realize as much as I hate it I'm a potential lynch target in this game thanks to the imprints.
I'm still thinking of keep the imprints to a small few till buttonman is lynched.
I will never be able to shake that distrust especially with the talks about vigging people coincidences and mafia never go hand and hand in my book.
Reck mentioned vigging too and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth all over but KOC is either scum or anti-town. I'm leaning scum. He critisized you and SC for attacking VMD's post but when people question his own comments he is none to be found.
Also pug is starting to bother me. As town when life is too busy and I think I'm a detrament I have asked to be replaced. To me that is the town thing to do and I'm sure people would disagree but if your town and your too busy to help or post in a game your not helping the town.

[farside22]

Actually, you said you wanted to wait for button and limerickx to claim before CTD posted a claim order. What makes you think that scum wouldn't be given the same information regarding their imprint?

Why would I know? I was hoping there would be something different or that the mod had something with just an ability. Is it wrong?
Plus I had a doc imprint I figured (because it would be a waste of an imprint) that someone had a kill ability and wanted to see what if any claims there were and if either said they had a kill ability I would have asked more questions (or as much can be asked) of their claim.
Mostly just hoping the mafia didn't have a claim or an imprint with a name and a game reference.

[farside22]

@Mod;

Scum's imprints stick around, but do they also stack? By which I mean can the scum becoming Vig x 2?

- If a rogue active is imprinted more than once, they will retain all imprints. However, each player can only perform one night action per night.

[farside22]

Who's up for lynching one of the arthritic hamsters who power the server?

I have a rant in GD just to keep me sane from wanting to drop kick the server for MS.

[farside22]

Not saying she's excused, just saying she's the only one who didn't claim to have a NK ability.

Why do you believe my claim?

[farside22]

Who said I did?

So you just believe I don't have a NK because I said I didnt'?

[farside22]

mmm I almost want to crunch numbers now.

if we mislynch today and scum was imprinted

6-3
scum shoots
5-3
............
scum tries to create another mislynch with those already imprinted
4-3
scum shoots
3-3

unvote:
vote: buttonman

FOS: reck

Just have this bad feeling in the pit and crunching numbers.

[farside22]

mmm I almost want to crunch numbers now.

if we mislynch today and scum was imprinted

6-3
scum shoots
5-3
............
scum tries to create another mislynch with those already imprinted
4-3
scum shoots
3-3

unvote:
vote: buttonman

FOS: reck

Just have this bad feeling in the pit and crunching numbers.

Congradulations you just reposted the numbers I posted when explaining why I didn't shoot as it could very possibly end with town getting F'ed over.

And yet you still managed to total not answer my questions. Congrats!

[farside22]

Oh and my thought is with scum imprinted not with you "vigging"
Should I mention the coincidences and mafia not going hand and hand again or is that you just ignoring it all.

[farside22]

back when farside was more awake.

TheButtonmen wrote:
7-3 -> NK from scum + Misvig -> 5-3 -> Mislynch + NK -> 3-3 = Town loses

If Scum got a NK and I misvigged it was LyLo with 3 suspects. As such due to the 3 imprints I wasn't willing to risk taking the shot as my scum read on Elvis is about 65-75%.

With 2 imprints, if there's a NK I didn't do I knew who was scum, three removed that certainty. Without that certainty risking putting it at Lylo wasn't something I was comfortable with.

These things make no sense. IE: willing to kill with only 2 imprints not 3. Doesn't say who he thinks is scum but comments about a misvig in his analysis.

[farside22]

I really don't want to play a game of "who's the safest lynch?" Lets just kill the damn scummy guy and we can move on from there. KOC's turbo mega lurking is miles scummier than Buttonman.

Incidentally, what is your current read of Limerickx, Farside?

Also, if I searched through your ISO looking for KOC/Vala what would I find?

I would have to reread limerick to get a full analysis. I don't read him as scum.
Right now i have this buttonman/koc/reck connection that I feel strongly about but reck's most resent post confused me..

[farside22]

Eventually KOC or Lim may want to actually........idk read the thread

So just reading KOC in isolation he came in giving a big post on the game thus far and then nothing much else.
So I have some things that concerned me that KOC has ignored completely.

xRECKONERx wrote:
Farside, at first, didn't come off that scummy to me... but it seems the more she tries to defend herself, the more she digs her own grave. It's like I didn't see anything at first, but ek's attacks on her are actually showing her in a different light. It's nothing drastic, not yet at least, but she seems to be failing to defend herself properly.

= I don't agree with this. I think farside has defended herself adroitly. EK saying farside hasn't =/= farside not doing it. Elvis' whole "let's just agree you said what you said and I said what I said" shit feels like an attempt to excuse some misrep.

Before this post he imprints me but later states the following:

...I'm not going to get my SC lynch today am I? =/
-sigh- Very well. unvote; Vote No Lynch
imprint: Socrates I don't necessarily agree with his opinions on certain players, but he's coming across as a solid town read for me.
unimprint: farside22 Not as sure about you as VMD was.

How come no imprint votes from CTD/SC yet?

Both EK and myself have asked him why he posted the VMD was involved in the imprint when it was himself that did the imprint and it's an about face with no reasoning.

Finally with SC asking people to imprint me this is what he has to say

You and farside have been, to some lesser or greater degree, at loggerheads for much of this game while not necessarily calling each other outright scum. Suddenly she is a perfect third imprint, when I could have sworn we wanted two, and you're trying to hold off the nolynch until you get what you want. I don't buy it. Two imprints is enough for tonight.

Mind you most of his big post was calling EK scum with SC town so this post makes no sense at all.

KOC has been nonexistant to wishy washy with no reasoning so far. He has gone back a bit on what he said with his first post to this post and doesn't expand on anything or any reason so far.

IE: Koc looks scummy mostly for backtracking, non contribution and lurking.

[farside22]

Eventually KOC or Lim may want to actually........idk read the thread

So just reading KOC in isolation he came in giving a big post on the game thus far and then nothing much else.
So I have some things that concerned me that KOC has ignored completely.

xRECKONERx wrote:
Farside, at first, didn't come off that scummy to me... but it seems the more she tries to defend herself, the more she digs her own grave. It's like I didn't see anything at first, but ek's attacks on her are actually showing her in a different light. It's nothing drastic, not yet at least, but she seems to be failing to defend herself properly.

= I don't agree with this. I think farside has defended herself adroitly. EK saying farside hasn't =/= farside not doing it. Elvis' whole "let's just agree you said what you said and I said what I said" shit feels like an attempt to excuse some misrep.

Before this post he imprints me but later states the following:

...I'm not going to get my SC lynch today am I? =/
-sigh- Very well. unvote; Vote No Lynch
imprint: Socrates I don't necessarily agree with his opinions on certain players, but he's coming across as a solid town read for me.
unimprint: farside22 Not as sure about you as VMD was.

How come no imprint votes from CTD/SC yet?

Both EK and myself have asked him why he posted the VMD was involved in the imprint when it was himself that did the imprint and it's an about face with no reasoning.

Finally with SC asking people to imprint me this is what he has to say

You and farside have been, to some lesser or greater degree, at loggerheads for much of this game while not necessarily calling each other outright scum. Suddenly she is a perfect third imprint, when I could have sworn we wanted two, and you're trying to hold off the nolynch until you get what you want. I don't buy it. Two imprints is enough for tonight.

Mind you most of his big post was calling EK scum with SC town so this post makes no sense at all.

KOC has been nonexistant to wishy washy with no reasoning so far. He has gone back a bit on what he said with his first post to this post and doesn't expand on anything or any reason so far.

IE: Koc looks scummy mostly for backtracking, non contribution and lurking.

[farside22]

It's my concern too EK. I'm concerned with that if we mislynch and someone imprinted was scum they could night kill tonight.
Someone talked about imprinting everyone and risk and reward but it depends on if we lynch town. As yourself if you were scum and given an imprint that was an RB (this is just an example of a possible imprint) would you use it or kill someone?
I'm thinking even though I don't know anything about what the mod will give to players this isn't random things. I don't know for sure and I asked the mod if the scum knew in advance what imprint they would get.
He said no. But as a mod I asked myself what imprints would I give scum if imprinted. What would a mod give a scum group that has no kill ability?
I figured they would be given the ability to kill as their first imprint.
That is why when reck talks about vigging and then buttonman talked about it I felt this was an excuse to allow scum to kill. Now that limerick says he got a vig imprint I wonder if the mod if fucking with us.
In the end coincidences and mafia lead me to my vote and not just the vig comment but buttonman not answering questions. He isn't making sense about his reasoning as he never said he found me or limerick scummy.
I know I was asked to give a view on limerick but weekends are tough on me and I haven't found time to read him in iso just yet

[farside22]

I'll have to disagree with this. I too was confused about the fact that you and SC seemed to be against each other, with a sudden about-face on SCs part. If I'm mistaken on that fact, feel free to correct me.

I know I have been going after SC this game but I don't know if he ever called me scum. I have had mixed views on SC from thinking scum to town. My big concern I have with SC was his push on SB over DN day 1.

[farside22]

I notice buttonman seems to care more about imprinting then finding scum and still chooses not to answer questions.

[farside22]

Farside, what is your opinion on my thought that an imprinted scum would WANT us to not imprint tonight, therefore, we SHOULD imprint.

What is your opinion of buttonman?

I see pro's and con's to the imprint. Imprint someone new and if a player that was imprinted before was scum welcome to WIFOM time.
If scum was imprinted and they get imprinted again they get a shiny new ability they can chose to use any night they wish.
Basically I'm not imprinting buttonman. I think imprinting someone new could lead to WIFOM if I don't trust one of the imprintee's and if we imprinted someone already imprinted I would imprint myself but my first priority is finding scum.

[farside22]

So most of my points on limerick are based on his imprints because most of it I found interesting.
I will say his case on SC at the time was understandable but looking back I haven't seen much of any other case brought by limerick that I can point to.

limerick day 3 stated:
Note to Button, I agree that 2-3 imprints should run into the future, not just for one day. I think I prefer 2 to 3 at this point, but as long as the number is small, that is what is important.

however later:

Unvote Serial Clergyman

I'll leave my imprint votes on Buttonmen and Myself.

2 imprints please and thank you.

pushing more on him and buttonman

Agreed with less imprints. While I'd prefer to receive an imprint over Pug for obvious reasons, I agree that two is enough

No reason why he changed from 2-3 to 2 now.

note:

Off the top of my head (posting from my phone at the moment) I was less suspicious of EK on day one then I am now, and more suspicious of Farside early than now. Im leaning town to Farside and neutral on EK. Id rather that neither get an imprint, if i had my choice.

His read before on me was thus:

Farside: I admit I couldn't read his uber-long post. My eyes started hurting. At this point, I think another reread will be required tomorrow. Lets leave it at null for now.
In fact, I'll wrap up my thoughts on the rest and expand on it tomrorow

later that same day said:

Farside: Fairly townish. Not comfortable enough to imprint

Also what happened between yesterday agreement

I'm fairly sure you know what I meant and I am far from the only one guilty of snark this game.

Yes, at this point, I am still most suspicious of you. I removed my vote on you in a show of support for the 'imprint/no lynch' plan.

And today?


Note:

Button, are you planning on casting any more imprint votes? Seeing as you've been imprinted, I think people would be especially interested as to who you choose to vote a second imprint on.

Things that mak me go hmmmm

For those clamoring for a brief summary of my thoughts; if you want longer then this you’re going to have to wait 24-36 hours.

Serial Clergyman; It should be clear I’m not his biggest fan by this point. Every time I try to give him the benefit of the doubt he breaks out more terrible terribly insane and inane logic and acts in ways that seem consistently scummy to me. However I’m no longer as convinced he is scum.

CrashTextDummie; I like the cut of his jib, he's posted quality and quantity, hope to see more from him; however he is working under the burden of my read on Messiah. Though he is quickly reversing it.

Limerickx; I’m going imprint hammer at the end of this post.

Socrates; No comment at this time.

xRECKONERx; Don’t want to see him get an imprint at the moment, I find
my read of him constantly getting adjusted downwards as time goes on.

farside22; I have nothing strikingly bad to say about farside22. Leaning town on her.

Pug89; I have nothing strikingly bad to say about Pug89. However I’d love to hear more from him, to me he’s really sitting back.

Knight of Cydonia; I don’t think he’s scum at this moment, but I'd also prefer him not to get an imprint at this time.

elvis_knits; She’s the reason I keep giving Serial a second chance as she set’s off my scummdar like no one else in this game and I’m fairly certain only one of the super buddies is scum. I think she’s scum and don’t want her to get an imprint.

Imprint: Limerickx

I'd rather not imprint Farside, for 2 main reasons.

a) Keeps the imprint pool smaller
b) Goes along with my post HERE where I said that I was uncomfortable with doing more/less imprinting or lynching that what we had generally decided before everyone starting voting for imprints in earnest.

I don't see how this makes any sense. I have good vibes from Farside, but I don't want to imprint farside for a few reasons.

a) Only wanted 2 imprints
b) Saying I think someone is more likely town than scum =/= I know they are town and can imprint them with no reservations.

This makes no sense for reason's not to imprint another player

In regards to this quote:

I personally would like to do a second imprint, if only because I would feel a lot more at ease about not possibly being manipulated in some way. I also think that the extra risk of a second imprint is worth the reward, as many roles relate to other PRs (tracker being the most relevant.)

Why do you feel you it would lead to manipulation if adding a 3rd person to imprints?


Curious question @ limerick. You had a big long case on SC but voted for Reck. Why the vote on reck over SC?

I see more talks about imprinting from limerick then scum talks. I feel as a town person you should be more focused on who is scum over who to imprint. The interaction of limerick's comment to buttonman and buttonman hammer imprinting limerick with no reason makes me feel a connection could be made between the two of them.
Also some of limericks points on players and his read on them is a lot of back and forth with no reasoning (except SC/EK) can be found. He think's reck is scum but I'm not sure why? He asked about KOC but says he didn't see anything in his read.
These desires by certain players to focus on imprinting over scum hunting just rubs me the wrong way.

[farside22]

OMGUS vote is noted by limerick who completely missed the buttonman interaction and pushes a weak case as I pointed to his scummiess and opinion as asked.
Your reasoning for not wanting to imprint more and following others instead of holding onto your own views is noted as well.
Goes from town to scum based on one post from me talking about his scummiess.
Welcome anyone elses view on limerick and his post and OMGUS vote based on my comments of him.

[farside22]

@Farside: Do you think it is possible that both Limerickx and Button are scum?

I'm starting to lean that way based on limerick reaction to my case on him which as I said he completely ignores the interaction I pointed out between him and buttonman.
This is the 3rd time buttonman has asked about the questions I asked and frankly I don't feel I should point to something a 3rd time.
IE: READ THE THREAD YOU SCUM! or DIE SCUM DIE
Seems appropriate at this point
Note KOC, limerick and buttonman all were part of the imprints on limerick and buttonman.
All these things leave me with concerns. Limerick asking for a KOC case but voting on reck for a case he doesn't even quote. Right now I would go back and look to see if he had some case but I keep getting interrupted inbetween.

What I don't want us to do is to get into some sort of "One of the imprintee's MUST be scum!" mindset.

This isn't my mind set it was first the "coincidence" of buttonman talking about vigging then getting a "vig" ability. His I would shoot but didn't shot because of a 3rd person that was imprinted but not saying who is scum. Says he would use a doc ability on SC as he would be framed but his last comment was vigging EK so why one over the other especially when he talks about misvigging.

[farside22]

So Farside just going to dismiss everyone who questions you as OMGUS?

Tell me what part of the case do you feel was valid that did not come across as OMGUS.

[farside22]

to appease people unlike buttonman I will go after limerick's post and points

As I've said before, after people had pretty much settled on imprinting 2 people, sudden changes in plan without good reason are fishy.

So if a few people who didn't imprint any of the 2 players that were imprinted and felt one was town they should not want to imprint someone they find town?

Because maybe I listened to other people who criticized my position against SC? Maybe SC is annoying, and makes no sense, but there are other reasons people can be like that other than being scum? But who knows, maybe THAT was wrong too

IE: I backtracked because I have no spine and couldn't push a case further on SC.
I think if you feel someone is scum stick with it and try to convince others of the scumminess

1) I spoke about xRECK yesterday, specifically about nonchalantly trying to push Pug through an imprint felt fishy to me.
2) Have I ever been strongly against EK? Maybe I have, I know that I've been uncomfortable about her before, but I dont recall ever making a strong case, as you misrepresent. Off the top of my head, I don't think I've even voted for her.

I ask people to make it easy to see why they are so against KoC because I didn't see something when I did a read through, and Im suspicious?

1) quote please
2)

E_K: I actually think E_K is less scummy than most other people. Still undecided.

Elvis I pretty much don't trust myself to be sure on way or another.

I was less suspicious of EK on day one then I am now, and more suspicious of Farside early than now. Im leaning town to Farside and neutral on EK.

On that note: I've changed my mind on Elvis plenty during the game. Early on I thought she was town, and then scum, and now I have no idea. Her/SCs crazy buddying is just mystifying to me, and I think I just find myself not going along with a bunch of her reads, so I am inclined to consider her a little shady.

Bad'ish' Guys':
Elvis_Knits
xRECKONERx

Your suspicious because most find KOC scum and you saying you don't see a case after a read seems scummy.

OMGUS vote based on

pushing bad play

(um yeah what's wrong with pointing out

people who play badly)
Misrepresentation

(in regards to EK only but so far that's it and I just quote were he called EK scum and had her at the bottom of his scum list)

flipflopping

(on what exactly?)

criticizing players for holding positions you once had before

(again see the point about voting for a town player and feeling someone is scum that was imprinted)

[farside22]

1. Pushing poor town actions (Again, if there was an imprinted scum from last night, he would WANT the town to not imprint again)
2. Accuse me of 'switching' from wanting 2-3 imprints to only wanting 2, when I clearly said that I'd be fine with 2 or 3, then upon everyone deciding 2 was the way to go, wanting to stick with it.
3. Along with the above, you said on multiple occasions that you would prefer two imprints to three, and gave arguements for this view. Then, as soon as I got the second imprint, a movement from out of nowhere springs up to get you imprinted, the first three imprint votes ALL coming from people who originally said they wanted only two imprints.
4. You accuse me of being scummy for voting to imprint myself and button, when its already clear that there is zero reason to not vote yourself for an imprint, and make it seem as if voting to imprint Button is the peak of scumminess, even though you imprinted him as well, as did many other players.
5. You make it seem like I waivered all over the place on my early read on you, when the quotes you post clearly follow a line of "I was suspicious, now leaning town, let me reread to be sure, yeah, fairly townish"
6. Doesn't vote DN, votes Starbuck
7) Asking to go last in the imprint reveal dispite not having any role which would benefit by going last.

1) Umm if scum was imprinted last night wouldn't they love another imprint tonight?
2) Again going with the crowd isn't pro-town
3) Yes and changing your mind based on those imprinted and knowing yourself to be town would not change anyone's mind including your own
3) 2 of these people didn't even vote on you or buttonman. If EK/SC is scum then this makes sense to link but since I know I'm not scum this link is pointless
4) I accuse you of being scummy for wanting to impring over scum hunt please get the fact straight
5) Someone talks about viging and gets a vig and you don't wonder to yourself if he's scum? Seriously?
6) Yes and I explained that earlier
7) explained that as well.


Finally when will you talk about buttonman and anything related to why he is town or scum and what he has done for the game?

[farside22]

So you ignore the points actually against you and claim I ignore the Button interaction?

Now that I answered everything. Care to imput why you felt the need to talk to buttonman about his view and don't question him more on his imprint hammer with no reason? Do you find buttonman scum hunting or more focused on imprinting in this game? What beside the gamebreak idea has buttonman done for this game?

[farside22]

I think Limerick in general has an OMGUS-y style. I remember the same thing happening after I made a case against him. His post is here.

You'll notice that 2, 3, 4, and 5 all are directly related to farside's case on you.

The rest of the case (being wary about imprinting again, the votes she's laid and asking to claim last) is fair, just relatively minor in my eyes.

I actually don't mind his efforts, nor do I mind the OMGUS. I think the whole episode has made me feel better about Limerick actually.

unvote, vote buttonman

Wait he OMGUS you and he does it to me but you think it's town motivated??? Why?

[farside22]

I've never thought OMGUS was a scumtell. Town do it just as much as scum do.

What I liked about Limerick was that it looked like he was genuine in his searching and case making. His points that weren't OMGUS are true, and well-researched. It looks exactly like he's a townie who thinks he's being targetted by scum and goes off to find evidence for that conclusion. It doesn't look like a strategic, constructed case.

If town do it just as much as scum then isn't it a null tell.
What about my thought on the limerick/buttonman interaction and imprints with each other?

[farside22]

Scum don't have to change their minds, they know who is town. Townies have to be willing to admit they can make mistakes. I was willing to see that my case on SC maybe wasn't as strong as I thought. Doesn't mean that I think hes town, just means that I'm willing to reconsider my own arguements.

This is so false I can't tell you the number of times scum backtrack their views on players they know to be town and make other cases that are far weaker

Blindly? People don't change their minds? You voted to imprint both Button and myself, now think we're both possibly scum, and you want to criticize me for being open to changing my mind?

I changed my mind based on your actions and views on my comments and thebuttonman I explained to death why I think he is scum. You backed off because people "critized your position". That isn't saying I went back and read on things and found a cases on others I felt to be scum.

Can I laugh at the fact that most of your case on reck was his action towards me?

.

Yes. I believe that this shows that I've never been strongly against E_K

You think calling someone scum is nothing?
However you said this:

I dont recall ever making a strong case, as you misrepresent

When I said this about you:

Also some of limericks points on players and his read on them is a lot of back and forth with no reasoning (except SC/EK) can be found.

So where you are using the word strongly is beyond me however your point about making a case on Reck is noted that I missed.
And you just completely misrepresented my point is noted as well. Pot/kettle nice to meet you.

I was mainly refering to you acting like people who want to talk about what is the best course of action vis a vis today are scummy.

What?

And saying I ignored the buttonman interaction, when I didnt.
And indicating I flipflopped regarding how many imprints I wanted
And indicating I changed my opinion on you as well

What did you say to buttonman and how hard did you go after him?
You did say 2 to 3 and changed it in regards to talks from others but didn't want to budge then did budge it was a bit wishy washy
You are voting me today after calling me town for days now right?

Mainly on posting on more than one occasion that 2 imprints were best, then acting like people who didnt agree when the third imprint on yourself was being pushed were doing something wrong. Note that I already said I didnt think you were wrong to WANT to have the third imprint, but this is still a flipflop.

This is just crap. You can't have both ways and say it's wrong. You can't say well I agreed with you but it's still a flipflop that's just crap.

When one (SC) has his vote on someone who, at the time of saying he wanted two imprints was voting to imprint someone (Pug) 2 votes away from being imprinted?

I just looked back on day 3 and SC wasn't imprinting anyone as far as I saw that day till he imprinted me.


SC: Did you say anything about wanting only 2 imprints during day 3? I'm reading through some things but everything is becoming a blur right now.

[farside22]

They can only use one power. What power, in your opinion would be best for them? I already said there is a possibility that there a) was a scum imprinted, who b) didnt get a NK, but that it was a risk I though was MORE than acceptable.

Roleblocking someone, person A can say they RB player B for some reason I'm sure and block them.
Why would you think they didn't get a NK? The risk isn't worth the reward if there was a scum imprinted.

2) Again going with the crowd isn't pro-town
No, but you first accused me of changing my mind, which is false. It also wasn't about 'going with the town' it was about setting a plan, and being uncomfortable with people wanting to switch to something else at the last minute.

What I said:

No reason why he changed from 2-3 to 2 now.

I read you in isolation that much should be obvious based on the fact you showed people who were talking about 2 imprints over 3.

3) Yes and changing your mind based on those imprinted and knowing yourself to be town would not change anyone's mind including your own
Changing your mind based on those imprinted when you voted to imprint both of them? You dont think a sudden mass movement for a third imprint is even a LITTLE shady? Especially when scum can talk during the day?

I imprinted both you and buttonman. I know myself to be town why would that be shady to me?

Why can't we do both? Why is it scummy to decide what the plan is first? You'll note I wasn't/aren't against lynching as well as imprinting, I voted to lynch xRECKx right off the bat, and now am voting for you.

priorities have been skewed more toward imprinting for most of my read on you. Not just today but the whole game.

And if Button got a vig and DID vig, and SC turned out town, you'd be ok? I doubt it. So button is a) not allowed to change his mind and let people talk some sense into him, and b) upon getting a vig, better shoot a townie, or else no matter what else he may do, he is scum. This isnt a defense for Button being a town or scum, its a defense against someone being made to look scummy for the WRONG REASONS.

Way to not answer my question. Reverse question and not answer is noted thanks
Are you not reading the thread? I asked this seriously now because I stated reasons why I could see why a NK was not performed already.

Why did I have to question him on his imprint hammer of me? Obviously he thought/thinks I'm town.

Did anyone hound you for hammering HIM? Hound me for hammering YOU? (I think you hammered him, and I hammered you, correct me if Im wrong)

I wish I had a head slap right about now smiley.
I find buttonman to be scummy that is why I'm questioning him and you in regards to his hammer vote!
Ask others why they are not questioning you they should.

BTW Farside, you imprinted Button AND Yourself AND myself, AND now think we're both scummy, but you want to harp on button and myself both imprinting each other?

How many times do I have to say this. Buttonman's vig comments and such and your reaction to my case makes me lean more scum then town. You vote was completely OMGUS and I even expanded on answering it and it seriously was OMGUS based on my comments about you.
I'm not imprinting anyone today. So your point is pretty mute considering my comments today.

Also reading you comments about buttonman I'm getting the impression you didn't even do a read on him and just spouted answers tot he questions.

Two points. OMGUS is not a scumtell answers your 'you see him omgus' part, and the stuff below about him being a frustrated townie feeling aggreived at being targeted answers the 'and you think he's town???' part.

I think we are going to disagree. Someone who makes the leap to vote someone who just presented a case to vote them doesn't strike me as frustrated but an Oh shit I got caught I better come up with something quick post

Also limerick you missed some questions:

Do you find buttonman scum hunting or more focused on imprinting in this game? What beside the gamebreak idea has buttonman done for this game?

[farside22]

farside, I don't think you're on the right track and I'm not sure what the answers to your question would prove one way or another.

I was imprinting pug for a while, I have been in favour of a few different styles of imprint. I never specifically said two only (I think), but I often said to keep the imprint pool small. It's a reasonable charge to say that I changed my mind, just the conclusion that I'm scummy because of it is lacking.

I don't see why saying 'I believe in two imprints no matter what' and never deviating from that is more likely to be town.

I just want to go over limericks points on you as well to see if he is making sense or talking out of his butt.
Right now I'm not even voting limerick but he's acting sure as hell jumpy on on comments I made and blows them way out of proportion.
IE: the EK comment he says he never said anything strongly as scum against her then says well that's not strongly (like seriously wtf)
Then goes ape shit over the 2- 3 imprints over 2 imprints. He points to others who made cases that he follows and anyone who looks over a player I would think does this in isolation so him saying it's misreping again is crazy weird as looking at his defense is like well you didn't say that I was following. Um yeah because I didn't see you following reading in isolation.
Is defense has become an attack and I don't see many town players do that. (some but not a lot)

[farside22]

Sure, doesn't change the fact that you insinuated that my reads were all back and forth with no reasoning, specifically mentioning xRECK.

Where do I bring up Reck in your wishy washy ways?

After asking if I had every been 'strongly' against E_K, you listed 5 posts where I, in varying degrees, say I feel uncomfortable about E_K, where you said a lot of my reads are back and forth with no reasoning, and say SC and EK are examples where this is not the case. I was informing you that I never took a solid stance on EK one way or another. Please tell me how this is misrepresenting you.

Where did I use the word strongly? This is the misrep I'm talking about
I said lots of back and forth which you post here just proves you were.

You've claimed that its scummy for me to want to talk about what the best course of action is today, regarding imprint/lynching, because it means Im not scumhunting. Not 'hey, focus on something else,' but actually implied that it was scummy!

I'm claiming your focus is on imprinting over scum hunting. Scum hunting is priority number 1 in my book.

I answerd your question regarding button, which you claimed I didn't.

Where? Provide a post # with this please. I only saw the one in which I said it doesn't look like you read anything about him.

The point in regard to 2-3 then 2 imprints agreeing with others and fight on it then agree to doing a 3rd imprint. It comes off wishy washy.

Yes, because people can change their mind, regardless of you acting like me relaxing my position on SC is scummy.

Your case is mostly OMGUS based except for 2 points which I answered days ago and your just now bringing up after the fact.

Most of my case isn't just you wanted 2 then 3 imprints. Again it's the lack of scum hunting I see coming from you. Your comment about noting wanting a 3rd person to be imprinted even with a town read is just odd. I know if I thought someone was town and I questioned someone imprinted I would push for a 3rd imprint of someone town.

I still haven't seen a reason why you find buttonman town either.

[farside22]

limerick really isn't making any sense at all to me at this point.
Just his attack on me over the 2-3 imprints. I mean really when he answers things like this:

farside wrote:
No reason why he changed from 2-3 to 2 now.
Quote:
I read you in isolation that much should be obvious based on the fact you showed people who were talking about 2 imprints over 3.

I dont see how this changes anything. You brought that up as a main point against me. You were incorrect about this.

It's just knitpicking at this point and blowing something up completely.
I could go back and forth so far if anyone wants on his points and everything he dropped so far but sticks with this one like it's the end of the world. It's like he has his ears plugged and is saying na,na,na,na,na I'm not listening. At least that's how I feel about it.

I don't know what you want regarding Button. I didn't think he was scummy, I got a good vibe from him, I voted to imprint him

.

I mean how could someone not know what I wanted when I'm voting for buttonman and questioning him all day today?

I've said that I havent liked his play since being imprinted. I said that I didnt like him saying hed use a vig if he got one. I havent found his play to be the best scumhunting-est. He has been more focused on imprinting (though again, that is still important)

Why imprint someone you don't like what they said after they were imprinted?

Also a point that bothers me the most

limerick brings up the point about my vote on sb but not dn. I don't recall him saying anything in regards to this on day 2 when EK and I argued the point over and over back and forth and he was calling me either null or town at this point
The I went last point he didn't have issue with till now.
Basically if just feels like someone trying to build a case that sounds less OMGUSish. Why wait till now to say anything about this as a negative and not say anything before?

[farside22]

I'm not reading anymore wall of text posts. Especially from farside.

That was hardly a wall of text, but thanks so much for your snarky comment.

[farside22]

So I got a virus on my computer yesterday. I'm trying to get back into things. Can someone TLDR for me?

I would but it seems even something that I consider short is walls of text.
*sigh* I feel snarky thanks to reck. Okay here is the really, really short version.
Buttonman still not answering questions
limerick is acting jumping over a comment I made over 2 imprints over 3 imprints and posted a long case against me that he never brought up points on at any time during the game. Says I misreped him so far I dont' see that and contered it, flip flopped on my views (seems to not want to understand the 3rd imprint and reason's why) and there was something else but god help I don't remember without rereading it all over again.

[farside22]

The prize is that we lynch them. Starting with KOC, of course.

Who do you think is scum with KOC?

[farside22]

The prize is that we lynch them. Starting with KOC, of course.

Who do you think is scum with KOC?

Buttonman seems like a fine choice for a scum buddy. I never felt that the Reck suspicion was unwarranted, and Reck's vote on KOC is about when I would expect scum to start to bus.

So why KoC over buttonman?
Is it you feel strongly over one over the other?

[farside22]

So I got a virus on my computer yesterday. I'm trying to get back into things. Can someone TLDR for me?

Buttonman still not answering questions

You keep saying this, yet your not asking me anything.

Dude you can ignore the fact I asked this pages ago, even though you quoted 1 and make a snarky comment and you fake you don't know wtf I'm talking about but when all you have to do is look at a person in isolation to see the question I pointed to twice now your just not wanting to answer those questions in my view.

[farside22]

Elvis, your plan sucks.

We lynch KoC and imprint nobody.

I find myself in agreement with not imprinting. If scum was imprinted (which I think buttonman is scum so dont' start with the if thing please) and they shoot someone tonight our pool of people imprinted is small.

Reck: I'm sure you answered this and I'm a bit tired right now but who do you suspect to be scum with KOC?

[farside22]

EK did you have questions not anwsered as well. I'm going to post everything right here so it's clear as day (again) so buttonman can stop trying to pretend he doesnt' know what questions.

questions to buttonman:

If I was scum why would I not shot anyone if I was given the ability?

What about my claim do you find false and reasoning do you find false

See post 1419

Also what case do you have against me to what to see me lynched that did not satisfy your questions thus far?

[farside22]

Unless people tell me why they think buttonman is town I'm not changing my vote.

[farside22]

Oh that reminds me I had a theory last night (yes I don't sleep)
Anyways the next time we decide to imprint I want to let's say do a just in case the mod put it in there type thing.

So my theory is this. Right now no one has a clue what imprints will be given. I just want to play it safe in case the mod has a lie detector imprint to be given out.
In case this imprint is in the game I think everyone should say something like this:

I, (player name here) am an ordinary active.

So I would say I, farside am an ordinary active.

That way if there is a lie dectctor imprint ever in this game a player can look for this and see if someone is lying.
Like I said just theorizing and trying to outguess the mod a bit.

[farside22]

*COUGH* The question you missed on 1419
Who did you think before the night came was scum?
Addition to that question
Since you analysis is thinking someone scum who do you think it was and why didn't you not say anything about said person being scum at that time

[farside22]

@Farside

Who did you think before the night came was scum?

I thought Elvis was scum before night came.

why didn't you not say anything about said person being scum at that time

I did say it.

I meant out of the people imprinted.

[farside22]

For me, the value in lynching buttonman has just gotten significantly higher, because I don't like his flavour and the fact he didn't vig despite saying he would

You think I'm scummy because of how I said I didn't shoot? Also I said i would vig back when it was two imprints (see my above post for explination) and I quite clearly that Elvis was my top scum choice, why would I shoot anyone other then my possible scum choice?

I'm trying to figure out why you didn't shoot and who you thought was scum if you thought someone else was going to kill. Also if you feel that you are going to shoot town then why think about shooting anyone at all. I read this as a worse case but it strikes me as scummy thought too.

7-3 -> NK from scum + Misvig -> 5-3 -> Mislynch + NK -> 3-3 = Town loses

If Scum got a NK and I misvigged it was LyLo with 3 suspects. As such due to the 3 imprints I wasn't willing to risk taking the shot as my scum read on Elvis is about 65-75%.

With 2 imprints, if there's a NK I didn't do I knew who was scum, three removed that certainty. Without that certainty risking putting it at Lylo wasn't something I was comfortable with.

These things make no sense. IE: willing to kill with only 2 imprints not 3. Doesn't say who he thinks is scum but comments about a misvig in his analysis.

in short so far happy with my vote

Still waiting on button to comment on my points here that he seems to miss.

This seems to be the post that buttonman wants to ignore or not answer properly so I'm posting again as a reference since he missed it completely with his answsers

[farside22]

LYNCH KOC. NO IMPRINTS. THANK YOU.

You know, it's been a long time and he hasn't done ANYTHING in this game. KOC would be a good lynch too. But I just loathe buttonmen and thirst for his blood. And if he's scum with a vig imprint, I really don't want him alive, even if KOC is scum too.

I keep thinking of this too. I'm more concerned if KOC flipped town over scum as the numbers for scum increase meaning shooting someone is more beneficial for scum.
Even though there is a valid case and reason for a KOC lynch and I know 2 players said they didn't see a KOC case 1 being buttonman but idk.............

Reck why do you perfer KOC over buttonman? What is your view on Buttonman?

[farside22]

You think Button is scum, even though he didn't shoot anyone. Why would be be any different?

I already answered this.

Either I doc protected the right person or he thought about the fact he claimed boldly about vigging people and doing so after many people said it's bad would look scummy.
Not a mind reader but that's my view on it.

A) Weird question considiring your voting me, B)I didn't really, Farside is voting me because I mentioned vigging yesterday and am suspcious of her, Elvis is just piggy backing on Farsides vote, no idea why you are and Socrate is voting me to end the day.

Oh really lets see who talked about be suspicious of who first shall we?
Seriously as soon as you said vigging a player is investigating you I was suspicious of you and started questioning your motives and voted for you as soon as you said you got vig.

SC wrote:

I wonder why (myself included) we all lost our suspicion of Reck that was almost universal yesterday.

I haven't lost suspicion of him. I still think reck/koc/buttonman with maybe pug as one of the 3 at scum left in this game at this point. Lim is crawling up my suspect list. I think this lynch of buttonman gives me information on these people and how they responded at the case.

[farside22]

@Farside: Me getting the Vig imprint is a scum tell? I'd love to hear the logic behind that.
.

Tell you what, when you finally answer the question I asked 4 times and stop avoiding it I will answer this.
Till then.

[farside22]

@Farside: Me getting the Vig imprint is a scum tell? I'd love to hear the logic behind that.
.

Tell you what, when you finally answer the question I asked 4 times and stop avoiding it I will answer this.
Till then.

The post you keep quoting has my answer in it, what about it don't you understand.

You answered who else was imprinted that you thought was scum?
Cool story bro.

[farside22]

For me, the value in lynching buttonman has just gotten significantly higher, because I don't like his flavour and the fact he didn't vig despite saying he would

You think I'm scummy because of how I said I didn't shoot? Also I said i would vig back when it was two imprints (see my above post for explination) and I quite clearly that Elvis was my top scum choice, why would I shoot anyone other then my possible scum choice?

I'm trying to figure out why you didn't shoot and who you thought was scum if you thought someone else was going to kill. Also if you feel that you are going to shoot town then why think about shooting anyone at all. I read this as a worse case but it strikes me as scummy thought too.

7-3 -> NK from scum + Misvig -> 5-3 -> Mislynch + NK -> 3-3 = Town loses

If Scum got a NK and I misvigged it was LyLo with 3 suspects. As such due to the 3 imprints I wasn't willing to risk taking the shot as my scum read on Elvis is about 65-75%.

With 2 imprints, if there's a NK I didn't do I knew who was scum, three removed that certainty. Without that certainty risking putting it at Lylo wasn't something I was comfortable with.

These things make no sense. IE: willing to kill with only 2 imprints not 3. Doesn't say who he thinks is scum but comments about a misvig in his analysis.

in short so far happy with my vote

Still waiting on button to comment on my points here that he seems to miss.

This seems to be the post that buttonman wants to ignore or not answer properly so I'm posting again as a reference since he missed it completely with his answsers

The bold just proves your not reading this post at all by the way

[farside22]

For the record, I corrently don't have a particularly favorable read on Buttonmen, and in different circumstances, I'd consider him a fair lynch. Those circumstances being that we have a clear as day scum on our hands in KoC. I am convinced he is scum. I am not convinced about Buttonmen.

If you don't have a favorable read on him then why KOC over buttonman?

I don't get the argument at all that Buttonmen must be lynched first because he was imprinted. Even if he is scum, we have no indication that he has a nightkill (the fact that we didn't have a kill last night suggests to me that he doesn't, as I don't see why he wouldn't have used it - the only theory that works for me in a "Buttonmen-scum had a kill" scenario is that his kill was blocked by farside, which is nothing but speculation at this point). With that in mind, I see zero reason not to lynch the scummiest player in the game right now, which is KoC.

His explanation from saying he would vig to why he didn't vig satisfies you why?

[farside22]

The only reason I'm doing this is I have trust in CTD on his views.
But I really have this deep gut feeling......
CTD one last question on this and then I will feel better....
What do you think about buttonman and pug saying they dont' see a case on KOC? What is your view on their comments on it?

[farside22]

@Farside:

Frankly I don't see how anyone has a case on KoC, he hasn't done anything yet,, I'm suprised he hasn't been replaced yet actually. I'm agianst his lynch as I disagree with lynching a slot when theres still time in the day to get a replacment and for them to get up to speed and then see how they act with the slot.

@Recks

, The last time you posted something was more then one line and wasn't a varient of "Don't Imprint, Lynch KoC!" was on the 23rd. Can we get an explination behind why you feel so strongly KoC is scum and why we shouldn;t be imprinting?

Critisizing Reck but not KOC for lack of posting? Why?
I notice I can't look to see anyone's profile to see if they are posting elsewhere so I can't say for sure if KOC needs to be replaced or is lurking, lurking because he is scum and doesn't want to answer the questions posted to him.

[farside22]

What do you think about buttonman and pug saying they dont' see a case on KOC? What is your view on their comments on it?

Obviously, I don't agree with them.

I was kind of hoping from more on you on this. I basically wanted to see if you are so certain of KOC flipping scum do you believe scum is bussing or holding back.

[farside22]

Knew I was forgetting something:

But I really have this deep gut feeling......

A deep gut feeling about what?

It's mostly people in the game I dont' trust. It's difficult when the game is at a standstill too.
Also people not wanting to vote on KOC and those saying they don't think buttonman has been very good or anything postive but push on KOC
it's one of those things that rub me wrong and looking at the vote count where koc isn't voting for anyone right now and where the votes stand at the moment.
I feel like this may be a pivotal lynch.

[farside22]

Buttonman isn't voting anyone either.
I meant to say that above.

[farside22]

By the by, the fact that Buttonman doesn't support the KoC wagon suggests to me that if he is scum, he probably didn't get a killing or otherwise majorly useful imprint yesterday. This is irregardless of whether those two are scum together. If he had the capacity to kill, I'd expect him to do more to avoid his own lynch.

I'm stating this for the benefit of the "ZOMG, we must lynch him first because if he is scum he will kill us at nite" crowd.

I disagree with this thought process. (1) buttonman talked about vigging the day before and says he chose to holster the gun because 3 imprints were more dangerous and could mean scum kill. This implies scum imprinted for 1 and 2 implies a misvig which means shooting is bad and no townie should shot as an "investigation" when lynching is just fine and a town concensese.
(2) many people expressed scumminess in buttonman for wanting to vig so I can see this as modivation for scum not to kill that night if they were imprinted.

[farside22]

I disagree with this thought process. (1) buttonman talked about vigging the day before and says he chose to holster the gun because 3 imprints were more dangerous and could mean scum kill. This implies scum imprinted for 1 and 2 implies a misvig which means shooting is bad and no townie should shot as an "investigation" when lynching is just fine and a town concensese.
(2) many people expressed scumminess in buttonman for wanting to vig so I can see this as modivation for scum not to kill that night if they were imprinted.

You say you disagree with my thought process and then bring up a couple of points that have nothing to do with my thought process.

If you disagree with my thought process, explain to me why Buttonmen isn't making more of an effort to stay alive by supporting the strongest counter-wagon (or any wagon with some kind of potential, really) if he has the ability to kill someone tonight.

I'm explaining why I disagree with your thought about possiblely not shooting.

as for the second part. I haven't seen buttonman do scum hunting much except to attack EK or SC. So if he had a thought about anyone else with any reasoning it would be a novel concept.

The unsarcastic part of me wonders if they are scum together and buttonman doesn't want to bus. Now that he says he doesn't see a case he can't backtrack without good reason.

@Farside: Why are you so agianst the fact that I found shooting unoptimal when the number of imprints went up?

buttonman talked about vigging the day before and says he chose to holster the gun because 3 imprints were more dangerous and could mean scum kill. This implies scum imprinted for 1 and 2 implies a misvig which means shooting is bad and no townie should shot as an "investigation" when lynching is just fine and a town concensese.
(2) many people expressed scumminess in buttonman for wanting to vig so I can see this as modivation for scum not to kill that night if they were imprinted.

Added to the fact you never said any suspicion on Lim or myself as scum with that "optimal" bs you keep slinging around.

[farside22]

I'm explaining why I disagree with your thought about possiblely not shooting.

Then why are you quoting a post that isn't in the least bit about possibly not shooting and everything about probably not being able to shoot at all?

Also, you completely avoided my question. Or maybe you didn't:

The unsarcastic part of me wonders if they are scum together and buttonman doesn't want to bus. Now that he says he doesn't see a case he can't backtrack without good reason.

So you think that Buttonmen is sacrificing a kill for his team because he doesn't want to bus. Is that it?

You know your question has it expecting me to be a mind reader on a player and how they play and do what they do right?

Do I think scum bus. Yes
Do I see scum not bus and avoid bussing at all cost. Yes
Is it possible in the smallest that buttonman doesn't vote KOC knowing his allignment could be town and could say look I was right? I have that thought in my head as well even thought KOC has done nothing this game to improve my thougths on him.
Is it possible that the players not voting for him is scum and they don't want the a player that has a kill to be lynch? Yes

Let me know if I missed anything with trying to guess people's motives.

[farside22]

If I was scum I would have a NK, why wouldn't I bus?

I'm not getting into your WIFOM. But please feel free to continue to ignore my point all you like.

[farside22]

buttonman scum wrote:
@Farside: Why are you so agianst the fact that I found shooting unoptimal when the number of imprints went up?

buttonman talked about vigging the day before and says he chose to holster the gun because 3 imprints were more dangerous and could mean scum kill. This implies scum imprinted for 1 and 2 implies a misvig which means shooting is bad and no townie should shot as an "investigation" when lynching is just fine and a town concensese.
(2) many people expressed scumminess in buttonman for wanting to vig so I can see this as modivation for scum not to kill that night if they were imprinted.

Added to the fact you never said any suspicion on Lim or myself as scum with that "optimal" bs you keep slinging around

[farside22]

You know your question has it expecting me to be a mind reader on a player and how they play and do what they do right?

Not at all. And I'm not sure if you are avoiding the meat of my question on purpose, but it's bugging. I am not the least bit interested in whether you think he's bussing, not bussing, being bussed or not being bussed.

Seriously this is in my view based on past games so far based on who buttonman plays scum.
Idk how he acts as scum. I have see a variety of different things that scum do and react in certain situations. There is the scum that bus and those that don't.
Could it be that if (and I say if in the lossest term possible) that KOC fliped town it concerns me more as the stats of a scum with a NK ability means town screwed. What part of that isn't clear to you?
I still have these questionable players like Pug/Reck/Lim who leave me questioning players motives and means in regards to the 2 players.

[farside22]

@Farside:

How do you want me to respond to that? We clearly disagree on if I should have shot or not, I've made it clear many times my reasoning for changing my mind. I'm not going to suddenly change my mind just because you bring it up fourteen times.

You do not ever once state who you thought was imprinted was scum based on your analogy and yes you analogy is FUCKING BASED ON A PLAYER BEING IMPRINTED AS SCUM!

[farside22]

Unvote, Vote: Buttonmen

I don't know if I should laugh or cry at this point.

I want to tear my hair out.
Was I not clear as to buttonmans flaw in his comment? I just want to know.

[farside22]

Let me state for the record that I was not satisfied by Farside's answer, as she didn't actually answer me at all.

The fact that she quoted and answered (again) to the part of my post I was decidedly and vocally

not

interested in, while ignoring once again the part that I actually

was

interested in, is rage inducing.

Needless to say, I am not terribly happy about the hammer, but let's see where it goes.

Good night.

What do you really expect from my answer? What did I not answer satisfactory. You want me to say that scum players make sense and our predictable or something? Are you a mind reader on scum players and why they do what they do?

[farside22]

I understood your point, farside, and I don't always understand what you mean.

You were telling buttonmen that his reasoning for not shooting depended on one or both of the other imprintees being scum. And he never said he thought you or lim, were, so this shouldn't have worried him.

This in a nutshell. Also he didn't want to answer it and kept avoiding it. He was like what do you mean I didn't shot because of the number of imprints. That should not have changed his views unless he thought a player imprinted was scum.

[farside22]

CTD's main question:

So you think that Buttonmen is sacrificing a kill for his team because he doesn't want to bus. Is that it?

In a nutshell because your not understanding I don't know.
It could be any reason I laid out.

[farside22]

Before I get offed anything you guys want me to answer / speculate on?

If your town you should list your scum suspects and why.

[farside22]

Already said I was town post lynch.

Farsides whole case agianst me was that I changed my mind when the situation changed. She refused to answer most questions and dismissed any argument that didn't fit her case.

I have seen scum claim town after a lynch at times Till the mod pops in and says what the alignment is I'm a doubting gus.

I answered most all questions. If you want to point out what questions I missed share now before the lynch scene if you so desire.
What did I dismiss?

[farside22]

vote: Knight of Cydonia

Still the only thing I'm willing to go for.

I haven't bothered to look too deeply into yesterday's lynch, but at a cursory glance, I like Pug89 the least on it, as I don't even have a memory of how he got there.

Although I very much disliked the fact that xRECKx' hammered

, I don't find it excessively scummy. The fact that he wants to no-lynch/imprint today is more of a bother, considering how adamant he was to lynch KoC yesterday.

As I've mentioned already, I will be on vacation until Friday. Hope it's not too much of a problem and feel free to lynch KoC in my absence.

The comment in bold.
It's the second time this game that Reck changed his vote without much of a comment.

@Koc: Who is scum and why?
Second read back some concerns I had in regards to your unimprint and blaming Val for it.

[farside22]

Imprint: farside, elvis

Sorry SC I had a thought on this game and my instict still doesn't trust you 100%

[farside22]

So who do you think is scum?

I'm willing to believe KOC and pug are scum, but who is the third, if not you, reck?

I have a theory but it's just theory right now. I hope someone I trust gets a cop imprint. We need it.

EK if you get a cop imprint who would you check out and why?

[farside22]

I guess pug, or perhaps socrates.

Pug's lack of participation sucks.

Socrates replaced plum... and plum is a very tricksy scum player, so I think if there is a player who has been fooling us so far, it might be plum/socrates.

Would you choose differently?

SC or limerick.
SC is a very dubious player when he is scum. Unfortunetly pointing out why I say this is because of a game in progess. His push on SB over DN still nags in the back of my head.
Limerick is a gut check for me. I'm going over the argument in my head we had and again he never said anything about seeing me as scum till I did that post on what I think about him as a player. All the sudden he talks about things already said in the game that were brought up and he never said boo about before. Someone so focused on imprints......idk just something off for me.

[farside22]

You or farside, probably.

SC is my strongest town read, and I can't say why due to ongoing games.

Me and farside are like obvtown.

Recalculate.

I don't have an issues with this. He wasn't the only person to feel this way. Buttonman said the same thing so if reck was given the ability I can't fault his thinking.
I believe lim had the same point when we were arguing as well and people felt this way with you and SC.
I just don't trust Reck enough to imprint him as I said his votes for SB and comment there looks scummy.

[farside22]

I thought he was saying one of us was the last scum, so that's why I said recalculate. If he or anybody else wants to investigate you or me, that's fine.

I thought he was talking investigation.

[farside22]

farside - I know that you're bound to be suspicious after that other game where I flipped scum. The key difference I'll point you to is willingness to self-preserve.

If I told you how far I think you would go as scum based on that game you would either think it was a compliment to your skills or think I'm insane and use it later in another game. Or I'm completely dead on. I just would like a cop investigation on you. You are a crafty soul who I respect on many levels.

[farside22]

KOC needs to die.

Pug is still doing barely enough to convince me they have a pulse. Not impressed.

I think koc is scum i'm torn mostly by what reck stated about if we mislynch at this point.

[farside22]

Ill Lynch KOC tomorrow if we no lynch and imprint today

What difference does that make?

[farside22]

Night actions

Listen. I'm trying here. Really I am but your not making sense to me.
If lynching KOC is a good thing and you agree he is scummy enough to be lynched tomorrow. Why wait for night actions if your going to lynch him no matter what?

[farside22]

I want why reck went from we should no lynch and imprint to lynching KOC after being questioned on his reasoning more.

[farside22]

This game is now starting to get to me. I think it's Reck erractic play that has me completely confused. Every time he does something that strikes me as a completely scum move he says something that strikes a town moment.

imprint: Soc and EK

Right now I think I'm going to imprint the only people I don't suspect in this game to be mafia.

imprint: farside

imprinting myself and hope for an investigation tonight.

[farside22]

The vote from SC onto ort really throws me off more then reck does.
I don't know if all scum would imprint one of there own but I can't see them not trying to take the opportunity to push it.
Basically just in my view type thing. if on day 1 VMD could have gotten 3 town players to imprint her it would have taken DN, herself and 2 scum buddies to imprint her.
So

VMD/KoC (5) - Deathnote, Limerick/Ortolan, Starbuck, VMD/KoC, CrashTextDummy

Didn't reck imprint VMD at one point?

[farside22]

Okay so I did a check on this imprint for day 1.

Ohio (5) - Nevada, Florida, Arizona, Ohio, Iowa

VMD - DN, Limerick, SB, VMD, Reck


Ohio (5) - Nevada, Florida, Arizona, Ohio, Colorado (Colorado unimprinted dec 15)


VMD - DN, Limerick, SB, VMD, messiah/CTD (imprinted dec 15)

Not imprinting VMD

farside, EK, SC, buttonman, Socrates

I think what SC should be saying is that the 5 players that did not imprint VMD that day 2 of them can not be scum. We already know the buttonman is town. It's possible one player not imprinting VMD that day was scum but scum could have had one of their own imprinted day 1 easily
messiah imprinted VMD on the 15th at 5:14pm. That same day reck unimprinted vel 20 minutes later. I can't see scum unimprinting one of their own while needing just one more player to imprint vel

imprint: Reck

I think I can see when messiah's imprinting of Vel why CTD/Messiah could be scum with that team.

[farside22]

Wow, did farside just imprint me? O_O

Yeah it's hard to ignore logic over gut and seeing bad playing that looks scummy.

[farside22]

Not imprinting VMD

farside, EK, SC, buttonman, Socrates

Sorry I forgot to put pug on this list of people that didn't imprint VMD. He is forgetable.

[farside22]

lol

I'm positive. I agree that CTD/Ort isn't likely.

Atleast one of the scums is on the buttonmen wagon:

button (6) - Elvis, Farside, SerialClergyman, Pug, Socrates, reckoner

If you're town, reckoner, I think Pug and/or Socrates has to be scum.

I don't know how I feel about Soc. CTD keeps saying he is in love with Socrates and wants to have his babies, but I don't really know why.

Didn't think about that

unimprint: Socrates

I can see CTD saying he wasn't on the wagon and wanted KOC lynched. It's not conclusive for me based on the imprint of someone that was scum where DN scum was imprinting her as well.

[farside22]

Pug/ortolan vs Socrates/CTD scumteam?

I had ortolan/SC scum team in my head yesterday do to a dream I had. Pug has needed to be replaced or is anti-town/scum for me. He hasn't given much oppinion on the game and is coasting by. It's irksome.

[farside22]

Do you really think CTDscum would have been trying to lynch KOCbuddy for two days, and never went over to buttonmen or anyone else?

The whole I didn't want buttonman lynch but look I wanted KOC lynch is a null tell for me. i can see town and scum saying this.

[farside22]

due to a dream I had

lol mafia dreams

I don't sleep well at these times either.
You want to know the theory?

[farside22]

Look at the d1 imprint wagon. If ortilan flips scum, ctd had 3 scum and himself on his imprint wagon. He switched from backing starbuck to voting her.

However Elvis makes some good points, specifically about the buttonman lynch.

I suggest we lynch ortolan. There is less controversy there I think.

Didn't setting up lynches get you in trouble on day 1. Do we really need this type of post at this point and time.
What did you think of the analysist on the almost imprint of VMD day 1 in regards to Reck?

[farside22]

Vote analysist has some meritt to it especially looking at an almost imprinted scum member.
Like I said seeing Reck unimprint someone after another player imprinted said player that fliped scum does not makes sense for scum to do.

[farside22]

I'm doing the opposite of setting up lynches. I'm saying let's stop the speculation about scum teams and lynch ortolan who comes out of this looking very bad

You know I think your scum with ort.
I just feel like an uphill battle of wills this game. I thought limerick scum after his knee jerk reaction to my post on him. He all the sudden starts to actually state a case where there has been tons of opportunity and time for it in the past. Then I have people saying they thought him town now think him scum.

Ort did the mod inform you what your imprint was when you replaced and give you the link to the game that the imprint came from?
If so can you share it with everyone here?

[farside22]

Farside, I vaugely agree with the reck thing but I was leaning town on him anyway.

Like I said I can't imagine scum taking that type of opportunity away from their scum team.

[farside22]

Ort did the mod inform you what your imprint was when you replaced and give you the link to the game that the imprint came from?
If so can you share it with everyone here?

He told me what it was and that it happened on day three. I assume from what someone said earlier that he already claimed it but the ability was a

scum nightkill

vig.

Hey I had to try and see if you were actually reading the game or see if you slip.

Now that I know you are reading the game, who is your top 2 scum suspects and why.

[farside22]

You talking about your vote on pug and this?

2. Reading his last 2 posts, it strikes me more than ever how passive Pug is. Not only does he post rarely and little when he does, he also very rarely comes up with anything original and mostly concentrates on whatever has been adressed to him in the interim.

He also acted horrendously scummy towards KoC's wagon yesterday and KoC calling him out on his illogical vote here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 01#2106301 looked like bad distancing. I agree with you that elvis is town, that's the only other read I feel confident of atm.

Not really much of a scum list of anyone but pug.

[farside22]

I don't do "scum lists" in the sense you mean, they're bad play. We're not looking for two people who somehow reach the magical threshold of "scummy", but rather two people who are allied with and who know each other, and who are also allied with and knew the dead scumz0rs. I will give you more as the inspiration comes to my but for now I'm catching up at my own pace. For now pug is my top candidate to lynch, why do I need two people?

So you don't want to read the game and get a view of players?
Why are scum list bad play? There is no scum kill in this game unless they are imprinted with a kill.

[farside22]

Hmm... I've been thinking.

People have mentioned pug and Reck being on both Buttonman's imprint wagon and lynch wagon as points against them, but it seems they have conveniently forgotten someone else who has also done that.
This person also wasn't on the KOC wagon, and in fact managed to make no significant stance whatsoever on the wagon yesterday instead choosing to talk around it for the duration.
This person also got what I felt was a verrry sudden and verrry weird imprint push that sent off alarm bells in my head when it went down, and I feel bad for letting myself get browbeat into going along with it.

Someone mind telling me why farside is, like, obv-town?

ummm I know my vote on buttonman and my reason's. I was very clear on my reasoning for it. As for KOC I was questioning reck and his point about imprinting at the time. His hammer on KOC after saying he wanted to imprint and no lynch to lynching KOC was highly questionable but it's hard to ignore cold logic.

[farside22]

@soc: Do you think that scum only one scum was on the DN lynch?

Nevada (7) - Virginia, Georgia, Montana, Iowa, Colorado, Florida, Alaska
Virginia (2) - Arizona (SB), Kansas (farside)
Alaska (1) - Hawaii (buttonman)

Not Voting (2) - Nevada (DN), Ohio (VMD)

[farside22]

Someone mind telling me why farside is, like, obv-town?

Because farside is obviously scumhunting and continually argues for conservative pro-town approaches.

She really adheres to the safe route almost all the time... which is why she and SC, and me and her, had such problems early game. She thought that me and SC were using too much WIFOM in our townreads of each other.

^this is why I hope to never be scum playing with EK she knows my scum tell.

I looked more at the imprints and something hit me about what i said day 3 about limerick and those on that imprint wagon.

vote: Ort

I have a feeling I was right on the money at that point about those on it and SC may be right about CTD. Remember his comment about looking at the votes and the imprints. He's being overly defensive about this and not explain why it could be misleading.

[farside22]

Hawaii (6) - Hawaii, Kansas, Ohio, Florida, Montana, Iowa
Florida (6) - Florida, Ohio, Kansas, Colorado, Montana, Hawaii
Kansas (6) - Alaska, Kansas, Virginia, Colorado, Georgia, Florida

I remember seeing this before and saying KOC could be scum trying to imprint a town and a scum member.
I know SC was adment about my imprint and not doing a no lynch till it happened. I think it possible person to be on my imprint with how long it dragged out.
Montana (pug) voted for both and colorado (CTD) voted for me and ort.
I was on all 3 imprints.
EK, SC, Soc was on my imprint.
Reck only imprinted buttonman.
limerick was on on three imprints.

So I could see looking at this if ort flips scum that pug is scum with him or CTD.
I can't imagine scum not being part of their own buddies imprinte and I see EK's as obvious town and Iowa as cold hard fact town.

[farside22]

Actually looking at imprint #22 pug scum with limerick doesn't make sense. I can't imagine day 1 and scum that close to an imprint without their scum buddies being part of it.

[farside22]

Yeah I am thinking that pug is not scum since VMD could have imprint hammered pug, and didn't.

I don't think it would have looked scummy for VMD to imprint hammer pug, so I don't know why vmd would be scared to do it.

This really does point to limerick/ort being scum. But that means that pug(town) and button(town) quick hammered his imprint. GEEZ. That would be like, really wacky.

And who is limerick/ort's partner? Because I really still think CTD is town based on his puch to lynch KOC.

SOC?

I had a SC theory based on some of his antics in the game as scum with limerick.
You don't think scum would bus their scum partner? I mean really KOC had many people looking his ways including myself for days.

[farside22]

I do think scum would buss, but this was like a really hard, long, buss, if it was a buss. Possible. I will look back to what CTD said about KOC. I don't think he wavered in his vote though, which makes me doubt a buss. I think scum try not to buss if they don't have to. I will give it another look though.

I need to find that game I was on Xtoxm and we were both scum. Some people say they think it's easier to buss their scum partner and not waiver on it as they know that player to be scum then a town to wavier and question themselves and others.
I'm not saying 100% CTD scum. But I believe based on some analysist, reactions, and overall play ort is more likely scum.

[farside22]

Just an FYI I replaced Jason in this game.

[farside22]

Lets make this less simplistic to appease the mass's.

Hawaii (button) (6) - Hawaii (button), Kansas (far), Ohio (koc), Florida (limerick), Montana (pug), Iowa (reck)
Florida (limerick) (6) - Florida (limerick), Ohio (Koc), Kansas (far), Colorado (CTD), Montana (pug), Hawaii (button)

Not on any of the imprints: EK, SC and Soc.

Players on both wagons: farside, button, limerick, koc

Hawaii: my top suspect on that wagon: Koc and Reck
Florida: My top suspects on that wagon: CTD and KOC

Not on any of the imprints and suspect: EK and Soc.

Now if everyone believes these 2 people are town and deserve to be imprinted why did 3 players not go on any of these imprint wagons?
Both players in question expressed interested with EK/SC as scum so if both said they were willing to investigate them why did EK/Sc not push ot have them imprinted?
These are the thoughts that plague my mind.

[farside22]

Based on interactions with VMD, I pretty strongly doubt that Elvis is scum. VMD's reaction to Elvis' theory that SC is town with her doesn't read to me like a bus. They actually had quite a few interactions, and I feel that way about most of them. /quote]

Why does this give town points to elvis but not to me?

farside - why are you and elvis allowed to go talking about ortolan's buddies but you got all snarky at me when I did? Honestly though, I think you can reason yourself out of a breain at the moment. It feels like we're really deep into this game but we've only had 4 flips, and that means we've only got a 1/4 chance of lynching scum and a 1/28 chance of correctly picking the team if we were doing it randomly - lets not get ahead of ourselves. I think Ortolan is a good lynch - even ctd tosses a few scum points his way, and I know farside and elvis both think it - lets knock him off.

I was going to go do some actual analysis, one sec.

Okay I think you need to understand my thought process so your not offended by my snarkiness.
I had a thought that you were scum with lim for the following reasons and scum motivations I could think you might do:
1) the whole pushing SB over DN day 1
2) saying lets lynch you and when you flip scum then people should lynch EK. I can see this with scum motivation to get someone you know to be town and will drive the town to be lynched
3) your imprint of me set off an internal alarm and I thought it came from the fact that buttonman suggested vigging you that you thought if you buttered up a town person they might either stop or protect you if buttonman shot. Of course that takes a lot of WIFOM on scum part but lim scum is more likely to get a kill then anything else because why would the mod deny giving scum a kill the first time they got imprinted.
This was later after my dream:
4) was later when you voted for CTD but didn't vote for KOC and wondered why people were voting for buttonman but you were voting him yourself.

1 and 2 are very valid options. Even a 1 to 1 ratio with those who followed you would look more scummy.
3 is per WIFOM and playing the odds.
4 seems very unlike your nature.

[farside22]

If you don't care about it because I'm not your top lynch target, lets deal with it later and look at who we should lynch.

Your not at the top. I think ort/ctd
ort/soc
are more likely but you would definately be up there if ort flips scum as a top 3 suspect. I don't know if I can every 100% trust your views. the push on SB over DN especially makes it difficult for me considering the game I'm thinking of.
I say we lynch ort. See where the chips lie, but I think EK needs to be imprinted for today as well.

[farside22]

I feel like this phrase I stated about reck fits pug as well.

Yeah it's hard to ignore logic over gut and seeing bad playing that looks scummy.

reck you have my permission to use that as your sig. you may need it in future game.

[farside22]

Soc has moved up my scum list with Ort.

I note that EK just needs 2 people to imprint her.
Unless someone can point to why they think EK is scum this imprint should happen before the end of day.

meh pug imprint could have been pushed by VMD but I think VMD was playing careful so I could say don't excuse pug right out the boat.
Right now in my head I have 3 people (including myself) to be town so I don't see the scum winning at this point.
@Reck: Why do you not see me as town?

[farside22]

Because you're talking a lot, changing your mind a lot, and seem to be one of the two main leaders of thought in the town (along with elvis). I'm not saying you're scum, but I can't list you as obv-town because that kind of play worries me.

I see too many things and until people start flipping scum I go on instinct and bad play from others.
Now that DN and KOC flipped scum I feel more certain about my town reads on you and EK and more certain on ort scum. The partner depending if ort does indeed flip scum is more harder to come by.

[farside22]

Just checked my role pm...indeed I am not scum. The real question is why a decent proportion of you are so certain of something which is not the case. Also why do you think I haven't been nightkilling after being imprinted?

Who's scum and why?

[farside22]

as opposed to...lynching me anyway, where I don't get to make any nightkills beforehand

No one but myself thought of limerick as scum if you actually read back so this WIFOM is pretty senseless don't you think.
Now if you seem to think making inane comments throughout the game instead of going back to read and make valid points about players in the game should some how make you look town over scum I'm all ears on how that is.

[farside22]

Yes I am currently voting Ort.
So far: you, me and reck all voting for Ort right now.

[farside22]

Interesting hypocrisy from Pug.
*notes it for later use depending on Ort flip*

[farside22]

I bring entertainment for the mass's while we wait for others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VX5juXDoXE

[farside22]

Unvote.

I want to hear CTD's analysis, and I don't want a quickhammer atm. Also, why aren't we lynching Pug?

I would like to see an imprint with a vote to lynch.
I believe ort is scum. Pug is on the same level as koc as far as context but I have to say I find it hard to imagine that scum VMD would not imprint pug that close to being imprinted day 1.

[farside22]

@Pug: Who do you think is the last 2 scum in this game and why?

[farside22]

The more I read this game the more it becomes incredibly blatantly obvious that the last two scum are Pug and farside.

Where is this Jason person? Has he said anything yet?

looked up, sure enough farside replaced Jason. Blatant distancing.

It is quite funny how farside is blatantly delaying Pug's lynch while still having to acknowledge he is scummy; for fear of outing herself as his scumbuddy even more blatantly.

Blatantly delaying Pug's lynch. Where did this so called blatantly delaying occur?
So one post where val is asking about a player that never posted during that time is blatanting distancing? Seriously is this the best crap case you can come up with? Should I start pointing out where VMD was imprinting limerick and limerick imprinter her or did you just decide to gloss over that when EK brings it up?
Or how about the fact KOC didn't imprint me on day three but imprinted wait for it........
you

[farside22]

This was never answered.

I did answer that question. I'll search for the quote when I actaully wake up but it's there.

I also like how neither of farside's scumbuddies, KoC and Pug were on her imprint wagon; but they were on the two other two wagons (mine and buttonmen).

Yer so basically farside claimed a practically useless doctor ability in contrast to the (proven) vig claim by thebuttonmen and the (subjectively proven) vig claim by me.

Oh so you think scum would stay way from imprinting their buddies because it makes you look good.

yup ort is scum trying to make himself look better at this point.

[farside22]

by the way how is your claim of vig proven where my doc claim isn't?
I had the game I was given along with the person's name that the mod told me.
As I said in the game if given a doc ability my first thought was someone was giving a kill ability
oh look I was right

[farside22]

First I hint I knew there was a reference with imprints

If we had imprinted two I would have shot Elvis, with three imprints vigging was too much of a risk.

What reference where you given for your imprint?

second:

First of all someone had a claim order. Second I was given a doc role and wanted to see if scum was going to be given something that said they were imprinted without a character name. I wasn't sure what info if any scum would get.
What about my claim do you find false and reasoning do you find false?

So if you have an issue with my claim ort that question about my claim and reasoning did you find false?

[farside22]

. I agree with you that elvis is town, that's the only other read I feel confident of atm.

Basically I would also really not want to imprint anyone else unless we are certain beyond reasonable doubt they are town. The current game state is biased, some would almost say broken in town's favour- the only surefire way of getting the scum back in the game is by empowering a bunch of them.

He think elvis is town and is confident but doesn't want to imprint her.
Obvious scum.

[farside22]

. I agree with you that elvis is town, that's the only other read I feel confident of atm.

Basically I would also really not want to imprint anyone else unless we are certain beyond reasonable doubt they are town. The current game state is biased, some would almost say broken in town's favour- the only surefire way of getting the scum back in the game is by empowering a bunch of them.

He think elvis is town and is confident but doesn't want to imprint her.
Obvious scum.

Imprinting leads to more WIFOM. They shouldn't imprint anyone after the lynch me. Then they know the only living person imprinted was you, and you're not going to be able to pretend the nightkills are coming from someone else.

I don't have a kill ability. I don't have anything. No one has killed but thanks for the WIFOM .
Koc scum didn't try to imprint me can you explain why that is?

ort now trying to outguess the mod and calling EK scum in the same breathe.

Well Buttonmen flipped town so you know he was telling the truth, and I'm about to flip town so you know I was telling the truth.

AtE much here. Lets see you lynch me and you see I'm telling the truth about my imprint. Look what I did.
Either no scum was imprinted day 3 since I know I'm town..... but 2 vigs.....I really would have a serious chat with the mod if he game 2 players that are town a vig ability why did I get the doc ability then? Makes no sense to vig those abilities only to 3 town. There should be something more.

[farside22]

Koc scum didn't try to imprint me can you explain why that is?

Because you instructed him in your quicktopic not to in order to minimise connections between the two of you?

So if believe pug is scum then your saying no scum was on my imprint then?

[farside22]

Farside has barely been attacked all game. As far as I remember, xRECKx is the only person to express strong suspicion of her. It would have been easy for any other player to join her imprint wagon without betraying any previous stance they took. Instead, mostly everyone is refraining because of weak strategic reasoning. Socrates is the only one who's apparently paranoid that SC and farside are trying to pull a fast one. If more people were against her imprint because of legitimate doubts of her being pro-town, I'd be much more inclined to believe that the anti-farside-imprint sentiment is pro-town driven.

This is an interesting take. In fact I agree that I don't think the "anti-farside-imprint sentiment" was pro-town driven, because I think everyone on her imprint wagon except herself was town.

So in your view to make yourself look better is to throw WIFOM on the one player that was imprinted and didn't have scum imprinting me.
Even though we showed VMD imprinting KOC.

[farside22]

Farside has barely been attacked all game. As far as I remember, xRECKx is the only person to express strong suspicion of her. It would have been easy for any other player to join her imprint wagon without betraying any previous stance they took. Instead, mostly everyone is refraining because of weak strategic reasoning. Socrates is the only one who's apparently paranoid that SC and farside are trying to pull a fast one. If more people were against her imprint because of legitimate doubts of her being pro-town, I'd be much more inclined to believe that the anti-farside-imprint sentiment is pro-town driven.

This is an interesting take. In fact I agree that I don't think the "anti-farside-imprint sentiment" was pro-town driven, because I think everyone on her imprint wagon except herself was town.

So in your view to make yourself look better is to throw WIFOM on the one player that was imprinted and didn't have scum imprinting me.
Even though we showed VMD imprinting KOC.

I should say so far as we know know no scum imprinted me. I'm sure ort will say this was a slip and make a big deal out of it.

[farside22]

Although I do think farside you're totally off base iwth the 'vig vs doc' imprint thing. I think they're probably random.

If we hit scum with our next lynch we could go imprint crazy and imprint everyone, that's be 6 town imprints to 1 scum.

Even 6 town imprints to 2 scum isn't terrible, but losing 2 mislynches is too hefty a price, I think.

You could be right but I hope not.

Ort the only thing you have been saying is trying to paint me as scum do to the fact that KOC didn't imprint me nor did VMD. KOC imprinted me and then back tracked.
I even am looking to clear people so town is more known. All you have done is say look I'm telling the truth because of buttonman. It's bs anyone can claim what you did. I could have claimed vig being the last to claim and would have been smart for a scum move but you dodge my questions and use strawman to answer others.

[farside22]

CAN YOU GUYS SERIOUSLY PLEASE IMPRINT ME

Don't look at me I'm imprinting you and according to mister let me make a case on nothing there I'm scum.

[farside22]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12760

looooooooooook, this game just finished, it was essentially 8v4 nightless with the benefit of confirmed townies making kill decisions.

6v2 is even better than that in a nightless setting. Only an idiot would want to deviate from the nightlessness of this setup, especially when we know the imprints serve no pro-town purpose.

One night of imprints and we know it serves no pro-town purpose.
I for one find a doc role very pro-town.

*waits for ort to unimprint using this logic*

[farside22]

I kinda really wanna lynch farside now tbqh.

Why?

[farside22]

I for one find a doc role very pro-town.

I know, that's probably why you fakeclaimed it rather than the actual scum bonus you received

Do you have any reason you believe my claim was fake? Beside the you must be scum comments you keep tossing out.

[farside22]

Because the more I think about it, the mod giving out two vigs and a doc seems rather pointless. And Button flipped town. And I've been suspicious of her for awhile.

I'm not lynching her today. Tomorrow, however...

A doctor protects people from being killed. There was 1 vig for sure so a doc protection doesn't seem pointless to me at all.
Giving town the chance to save a player from being killed by a possible scum imprinted with a kill (cough ort) makes tons of sense.
Do you really believe that Ort is clean based on buttonman's flip?

[farside22]

If he flips town I'm going after farside.

unimprint: reck

fos: reck

there is that feeling again that even reminds me of the comment in MS where they talked about players who set up mislynches.

[farside22]

God can we just lynch farside?

That last post is soooooo scum trying to appear town.

"Quick, I must remove my imprint and throw up an FoS on him so it doesn't look like OMGUS when I attack him before he comes after me tomorrow! Oh, and let's throw in an irrelevant appeal to authority/wiki to boot!"

Your the one saying hey I think after ort's flip we should lynch farside. I will look at your post more based on Ort's flip since I know myself to be town if you just looking to set up mislynches like it sounds.
There is proven basis that scum look for mislynches.
And oh wow no one wanted to imprint you but me for a brief time.
How dare I!

*mutters unkind words*

[farside22]

Cos how bizarre is it to think that someone who fought really hard to imprint you is scum?? AMITRITE FARSIDE???

Thank you SC you made me feel that I'm not crazy or have lost the sense God gave us.

*goes back to muttering*

[farside22]

SC - imo that's farside-scum trying to incriminate me after being the only person in my wagon following a flip the next day.

unvote:
vote: Reck

Is this a slip or did you just almost claim you know how Ort will flip when lynched now.

[farside22]

I for one find a doc role very pro-town.

I know, that's probably why you fakeclaimed it rather than the actual scum bonus you received

Does anyone note besides me the ort is using WIFOM to try and get a lynch on me?

[farside22]

You weren't even voting Ortolan though.

yeah he was and he's ignoring everything I have stated and looks to be knowing Ort's alignment by his own statments of saying he would lynch me next then saying he would lynch me based on Ort's flip.
That looks to me like a slip of already knowing Ort's alignment.
Also he's following Ort's "case" which is all WIFOM. and not really a case at all.

[farside22]

My reason to believe reck is scum

God can we just lynch farside?

That last post is soooooo scum trying to appear town.

Not saying how it is scum trying to appear town in this statement. He has stated before this that he didn't see me as obv town but more vocal. Now that I'm more looking at him he's getting jumpy.

Because the more I think about it, the mod giving out two vigs and a doc seems rather pointless. And Button flipped town.

Using a bit of WIFOM in regards to the claims. Seems to be giving Ort an out saying it is pointless but doesn't respond to the comment I nor pug made on how it is not pointless

I'm not lynching her today. Tomorrow, however...

Saying he would lynch me tomorrow

No, did I say that?

Ort's flip will be very telling of farside.

Then when caught rephrases himself of this

If he flips town I'm going after farside.

doesn't explain how Ort flipping town makes me scum

Because you're talking a lot, changing your mind a lot, and seem to be one of the two main leaders of thought in the town (along with elvis). I'm not saying you're scum, but I can't list you as obv-town because that kind of play worries me.

His why I'm scum reasoning so far:
talking and changing a person's mind is scum why?

And finaly the OMGUS vote:

The more you push for the wagon and the more you post, the more I'm doubting the ort wagon. unvote, vote: farside22.

Lets not forget the 2 times he switched votes from one person to the other with no reason. IE: Starbuck and buttonman.

[farside22]

JESUS CHRIST FARSIDE PLEASE LEARN PROPER ENGLISH

GO FUCK YOURSELF.

There you happy with critisizing a person for no reason now.

[farside22]

Stop the catfight guys

He's being an ass and he didn't respond to the case I laid out. he just lashed out for no reason so no I'm not changing my vote till I get a proper reason that isn't just lashing out attack on someone's grammar or spelling or what ever the fuck his so called issue is with what I laid out.

Do you think Reck is town now? Why did you change your vote?

[farside22]

I'll look into CTD, Soc, Ort/lim tomorrow as they are my top 3 but Reck is riding that thin line of scum to much.
The one reason I thought he was town was the imprints and not seeing him take a shot to imprint VMD day 1. Other then that his play is more scummy.

[farside22]

CTD: Why do you see imprinting as not a pro-town benefit? Do you believe all the mod will give players is vig or doc?

[farside22]

I think thats a bit a big assumption that the mod didn't put in a cop or some confirmation role. All we had was one night of imprints so where your getting this assumption from doesn't really jive with me.
Can you remind me (because I forgot) what game day you replaced in please?
Granted there is only 2 scum left in this game but so far I haven't seen a clear consensis from people on who scum is.

[farside22]

I wanted people to look for themselves and see. Do you still want me to explain this or are you just going to ignore it?

I don't see how it's sooooooo scum appearing town obviously.

WIFOM is WIFOM. I don't think a good mod with these mechanics would give out randomized roles. I think they'd have a set of roles which can benefit each other or play off of each other. Handing out random, illogical roles like that has the ability to completely unbalance the game.

So why are you saying that 2 vigs and a doc is pointless?

But my 'tomorrow, however...' implies that the results of today's lynch might influence me more to vote you tomorrow.

The physic network did not call or leave me that message

Farside-scum wanted me to look even scummier if she flips scum. So she decides to buddy me by finding a 'omg he has to be town!' thing, and is the sole imprint on me. If she gets lynched, looking back, it'd look like a blatant buddying and I'd be lynched because I've been playing scummy the entire game and I'm affiliated with a known scum (farside). Then when I decided to attack her head on and express my scumminess, she first unimprints, then gradually builds back up into a vote so it doesn't look like a knee-jerk reaction.

your worse the Ort when it comes to WIFOM right about now.
You didn't attack me till I questioned your reason for wanting my lynch. Oh that's right you conviently forget that happening in the first place.
Your pushing for my lynch after ort and saying I want to vote you now because I found your comment a slip of trying to set up a mislynch at least of myself. The issue is you haven't had a case on me at all. All you said is she should be lynched next do to ort's flip without saying why.
That's scummy.

I almost hope you can get this crap WIFOM moving to show people what an idiot you are and lynch your dumb ass after I flip town and then lynch your scum buddy Soc (replacement name here) there.

[farside22]

I'm sorry Pulindar for not saying your name. I am needless to say an emotional person and when pissy I don't care to look things up when I'm on a tagant.

unvote:
vote: Ort

As for my reason's for saying reck was town and they only thing I found is day 1 where VMD was 2 votes away from an imprint. He unimprnted her after there was a 6th vote for imprint on her. I can't imagine scum unimprinting someone that is their scum buddy in this game.
She was too close to an imprint that day and it would have been a boon to get scum imprint day 1 for a team unable to kill without an imprint to give it too them.

I love Ort thinking it's broken for the town to be given a cop investigation for one night. That is the worst excuse I have heard all day for rational thinking.

[farside22]

As for my reason's for saying reck was town and they only thing I found is day 1 where VMD was 2 votes away from an imprint. He unimprnted her after there was a 6th vote for imprint on her. I can't imagine scum unimprinting someone that is their scum buddy in this game.
She was too close to an imprint that day and it would have been a boon to get scum imprint day 1 for a team unable to kill without an imprint to give it too them.

Well, I was pressuring Reck about his townread on VMD at the time. I questioned him repeatedly because he said VMD's vote on Buttonmen for trying to break the game was a "towntell," when it was actually quite scummy. He might have felt forced to unimprint vmd.

hmmm I hadn't remembered that.

pul: Why do you think Reck is town?

[farside22]

^look more of ort telling people who to lynch and not saying why.

[farside22]

I remember question messiah on his vote on SB. It seemed like he gave room to flip to SB based on DN's flip which could be scum knowing DN flip and setting up for a mislynch.

[farside22]

I agree with ort. Lynch farside and Pug.

Oh I'm so happy to see you argee with the person who hasn't yet to explain why he is saying I'm scum with Pug and ignored my question I asked.
Either your VI or scum in my view and nothing will change my view on you in this game.

[farside22]

meh pul seems find to me EK. I think you and he will butt heads for a bit. I understand scum taking control over a game. I have seen it myself.
I just know your meta better then he does to know you don't do that as scum and don't do well under pressure as scum.
See pul this is pure meta and modding and being in games with EK. She really doesn't take a stand very well when she plays scum or anything anti-town. (I noticed this when she was a SK in another game) She buckles under pressure, she doesn't make sound judgements well, she lurks more often as scum then town.
I could probably if you like link to a couple of games right off the bat you can see her like this.

[farside22]

Links:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8500 - EK scum
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11173 - EK scum
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9776 - EK as serial killer

[farside22]

Virginia, why aren't you imprinting yourself for teh hammah?

I wasn't sure if we want to do imprints or not, so I didn't want to take any options away from us. If I hammer it can't be taken back.

I do think it would be fun to get an imprint, so I'd like to do it. But that's just purely for my own enjoyment, so I held back.

Should I do it?

Yes. Plus I want to know if the imprints we get will be more useful then others are saying they will. *cough* Ort *cough* CTD.

[farside22]

*cough* serial.

Still - I think elvis should be imprinted, and I think we should keep imprinting her. Meta, her play, her voting, I'm completely behind elvis town.

You said you thought the imprints were not going to be useful?

[farside22]

Ah never mind you did say it this page so *cough SC too.

[farside22]

Last time Ort I am asking this question.
What about my claim and response before the claim looks false.
What about a doc role makes you think it's fake when you see X player saying they had vig?
How many times will you make WIFOM comments that are not an actual case this game?

I don't expect any answer since he has pretty much ignored all questions I asked or answered any question with a WIFOM remark.

[farside22]

Last time Ort I am asking this question.
What about my claim and response before the claim looks false.
What about a doc role makes you think it's fake when you see X player saying they had vig?
How many times will you make WIFOM comments that are not an actual case this game?

I don't expect any answer since he has pretty much ignored all questions I asked or answered any question with a WIFOM remark.

why.are.you.voting.yourself.to.get.a.doctor.ability?

what.possible.use.could.a.doctor.ability.be.tonight?

are.you.scum?

yes.you.are

I don't know what ability I will get.
see above
no
and finally you are more useless then a third tit on myself.

Oh and thanks for not answering my questions.

[farside22]

yer, intriguing

✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿
✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿
✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿✿◕‿◕✿

actually I just wasn't paying attention, as a result of being lynched inevitably and the fact I already know who the scum are so such puny things as anti-town imprints aren't of the greatest concern to me, especially as it's probably on a town player.

I'm not scum so if you think your actions are considered "helping" your deluding yourself.

[farside22]

I don't know what ability I will get.

Thanks for admitting you're scum, case closed.

Your an idiot and scum. Case closed.

Oh and for the record ask the mod because I did no one knows what imprint they will get in this game.

[farside22]

EK curious if you had something that helped this game.
*kick mod* Thats for night 3 imprints. You and I will have a not so happy talk afterwords.

Fos: CTD and SC

Something about him saying the imprints were useless to the town. I mean how does anyone know who was telling the truth about their imprints but the person with the claim or mafia.

[farside22]

Like I said yesterday there was no one to know if imprints were all useless. We had 2 claimed vigs and 1 claimed doc. No one knew if Ort was telling the truth and I sure didn't so I wasn't sure the imprints were useless. I dont' know why you believed they were useless and yes now they have lead to the lynch of two town players, but no one knew (except scum) how ort would flip come day time.

[farside22]

I had a doc role and that character name. I take it iam didn't say whether I used the ability on the night like I said

[farside22]

I think I need to reread some players in isolation.
I can see pug scum but I think there was more then just his lurkering that lead me to thinking this.
I still have my eye on CTD and SC.
Reck climbed up my list but just barely.

Reck do you think imprinting players is a good idea.
CTD and SC what do you have to say about the "useless" of the imprints now?

[farside22]

The power Elvis claimed is certainly useful. That doesn't really change my opinion that imprints are more trouble then they're worth (prior to today: a lot of trouble, zero worth; today: still a lot of trouble, a little worth).

Yes there has been trouble but someone of it came from the player more then the imprint. Yes part of my issue with buttonman was him talking about vigging a player and then getting a vig ability. Ort/Lim however dug his own grave that had little to nothing to do with the imprint and more to do with those who almost were imprinted and trying to find connections.

[farside22]

okay I'm analysis some vote counts and based on some interesting things I found I think Pug and Soc/pul may be the last two scum.
I could be wrong I need to verify some things I saw in the vote count to understand why scum voted as they did some days.
Reck could be scum here as well but it's one of those idk right now based on his play more and recklessness that he goes into the unknown category.

[farside22]

I'm currently in the process of setting up a new game today. I will get back to analysis on this tomorrow.

[farside22]

Post 2115 from pug sounds almost exactly like what I said on the two players. Or am I going crazy?

[farside22]

Did Reck ever answer this question?

I want to know why reck went from we should no lynch and imprint to lynching KOC after being questioned on his reasoning more.

I noticed looking at Pug in isolation he has done a lot of following this game. When people were talking about KOC he said he didn't see a case and here is what he says when he votes the guy

Vote: KOC

I was going to give you more time to respond, but clearly that's not going to happen and at this point your lynch is pretty much a forgone conclusion.

Pug has always been very low and voting towards the end of each of the lynches.
At buttonman he was the 4th vote and with Ort he put Ort at L-1.

[farside22]

Do you think he's just copying you?

idk I just read things I said. The vigging was mostly brought up by me.
As for Ort I know I called him out for not making a case and using WIFOM to explain everything away.

[farside22]

I really think that BOTH reckoner and Pug are scum.

SC, do you still think reckoner is town?

Personally I have a weird mix from Reck. He's not on the top of my suspect list as scum but he's not town.
Something in my gut doesn't trust CTD.

[farside22]

I'm leaning more and more sure that Pug is scum. I just looked at the wagon's between Buttonman and KOC.
At one point they were tied for for the reason I had commented on that Pug never stated having any issue with before he voted for button over KOC.
I know Reck hammered buttonman and I can see the hammer as frustrated townie that is tired of the argument, more then scum hammering of a townie.
The one thing I remember about the buttonman was SC asking why we were going to lynch Button over KOC but he was voting Button and that doesn't make sense to me.

[farside22]

So I read VMD in isolation a bit to see if anything struck me. I'm back to thinking CTD is scum and Pug is his scum partner.
I also think based on some early interaction that VMD and Reck.
VMD asked Reck why he unimprinted her with the pressure from EK. If Reck is scum doesn't this give him the out to imprint his scum buddy.
Instead Reck stated the following:

I backed off of you AND Buttonmen, VMD. I realized my gut reaction was logically incorrect.

And then expanded as thus

I formed my first opinion based on that original logic, then confirmation bias caused me to see everything you did as townie. Not that I'm saying you're scum - I still have a town read on you - it's just not as strongly town as it was before since the foundation was faulty.

The other person and I'm sorry SC it's just because of VMD's action is you.
She was pushing hard day 2 for SC's lynch. The next day instead of voting for SC she goes for Messiah.
Looking at the vote count as the SC wagon formed VMD stayed messiah
[quote="mod vote count #22]
Alaska (4) - Colorado, Iowa, Florida, Kansas
Colorado (1) - Ohio [/quote]

It seems like a sudden switch from one player to other when her point from day 2 was still valid with SB's flip.

[farside22]

Sorry Reck comments were not clear in my post.
I'm on the fence with reck. I can see him as town and scum and I can't tell you how many times I go back and forth with my read on him and the exchange with VMD and him that I can't for sure say one way or another town or scum. I'm leaning more town then scum with reck.

As for you CTD there were things that VMD said that leaving me questioning you as well. You are neck and neck with SC as far as scum. I can see VMD comments towards messiah day 1 then on day 3 for reason's that are really not clear she votes for him.
It's an odd interplay. It's hard to explain but something just seems off about VMD and reading her views on players.

I think the only player I saw little to no interaction from VMD was Plum/Pul.

So here is a list of scum to town

Pug
SC
CTD
Soc
Reck
EK
Farside

Top being scum, buttom is town. I may want to look at things a bit more after Pug lynch depending on his flip.

imprint: farside

I'm hopping this time the mod will give EK and myself something to help with the town more.

[farside22]

zzzzzzzzz
Where is SC today?
I would vote pug but I don't want a hammer without hearing a bit from everyone and yes I know I'm not the hammer but I expect a hammer from others
Wait recks already voting pug.
Sorry I needed to say that

vote: Pug

[farside22]

EK would you mind doing a list on scum to town. I'm curious on who you put top to bottom.
Also what did you think about the interaction with VMD and SC from day 2 to day 3?

[farside22]

ug sorry guys, I've been busy and haven't had much to add.

Frankly I still don't have much to add.

Farside, do you think it's possible that Elvis knew his meta and would change it for this game?
I'm doubting it, but since I am voting to imprint Elvis, and you are not and you suggested that Elvis was definitely town.... well, you see where I'm going...

knew who's meta?
I was going to imprint EK and mysle I just think more about reading the game and trying to find scum first. EK is town in my view

[farside22]

I meant her meta, sorry Elvis

I meant to ask if Elvis could be purposely changing her normal scum play because she knew how strong a difference there was between her scum and town game.

The main reason I asked wasn't because of my own suspicions, but because you seemed the most sure that Elvis was town and yet you have not hammered the imprint on her for the day.

I also makes me a bit more suspicious of you. If you're so sure she's town then I don't understand why you're postponing her imprint, unless you have a good reason. Saying that you're going to focus on your read of the game confuses me, because I see the imprinting of Elvis as just an after effect. just something you should be able to do without thought.

There was a game ongoing during the time I joined this game that was very different from her play her. In that game she was scum.
Now there is a game we are both dead in she is very much like she is here and since the game is ongoing all I will say is we both flipped town there.

I haven't been really focused on the imprinting in this game. If you look at who I have imprinted I have been more methodical on who I imprint and why.
First priority for me is finding scum.
I think it's interesting your finding suspicion now that EK cleared me with her investigation, as far as she saying that my role is what I claimed day 3. Do you think her scum or myself scum or both scum? If so why did you imprint EK?

[farside22]

Where is it listed that I had the same role 2 nights in a row?
Ort was claiming I was going to say I would have a useless "doc" role if imprinted.
So if you want to post actual quotes where it is stated that I had the doc role 2 nights in a row.

[farside22]

LOL. I was thinking you were scum trying to push a mislynch since Pug looks to be scum.

Pul can you get a list of who you think is scum and then go down the list like EK, myself, and reck did please.
Also a bit of why you think it would be good.

[farside22]

mod please prod CTD and Pug