Mini 889 - Shopping Frenzy (Over)

[CallMeLiam]

Unvote

to get things started. I'll do a more thorough post once I've done a more thorough read

[CallMeLiam]

Posting as I read:

Post 42 - Muh suggets a no lynch. Usually not something I like to see on day one. His assumption of a cop is also of the not-good camp.
Then torquez acts stupid, and Debonair Danny jumps right onto him for it. Since he was already voting him, this smells bussy. As the conversation goes on it seems less like he's joking and more like he would be happy lynching torquez after barely three pages. Hmm.

Post 58 from Chinaman won back points lost when he wishy-washily supported the no-lynch. he fends off torquez's somewhat weak attack and vote in the first half of the post and then proceeds to defend torquez in the second. Right. That's certainly how I'd try to buddy up to someone too

Post 76 from DDD seems like he's grabbing onto other people's ideas (Paltry Excuse's question in the previous post) and adding his own deeply spurious logic to justify a vote and his push on torquez. I know lots of people that much prefer being town and I know people that much prefer being scum. Further down the page Julienvonwolfe says he's befuddled by muh's reaction, but muh is reacting just like I would.

Post 98 from DDD is very flippant and contains (in this order) DDD's opinion stated as fact, a flippant refusal to make a case against torquez, then a fairly accurate attack, if slight, on torquez, then reiteration of his vote being pre-emptive' Lynch him before he acts scummy eh? Finally a flippant defense of himself. The following:

There’s also little active participation from you other than a general distress at the vote count and trying to divert attention from yourself.

Is the only time I've seen DDD post a decent justification for his vote, and this is after a couple of pages of pushing hard for a torquez lynch.

Post 103 is julienvonwolfe nagging people to chip in because he's bored. he handily claims not to have a read on the main debate so as to better sit on his fence of neutrality and minimal content.

Post 111 is el simo pointing out the obvious flaw in DDD's logic, but this doesn't address the lack of non-defensive content from torquez.

Post 120 is julienvonwolfe hopping on a bandwagon with minimal justification.

Post 142 is pure bull from Josh Lyman. His activity really kicks in once the torquez wagon gains speed although this could be coincidence. This post being pretty scummy could not.

Then a really handsome player joins the game with an unvote. Then don_johnson does the same.


Right. So my main problem is people trying to use meta about replacements and lurking. I have replaced out as town and scum, vanillas and power roles. I have lurked as the same due to real life circumstances or due to in game tactics. I think it's very very risky to use any of this as a key part of decision making and the fact that it's dominating aspects of the debate is deeply unhelpful to the town.

As for Torq vs DDD my initial read is that DDD is an overenthusiastic townie although misguided in his leaning on meta and that torq is not being helpful in the least towards the town. Not being helpful would be a fine reason to lynch later in the game but on day one we have actually scummy behaviour that I'd like to push on. Torq, maybe take a while to re-read and spot some scum rather than just going after your attacker.

The only other players I have a real read on are chinaman and muh as slightly pro-town because I've agreed with a lot of what they say, and julienvonwolfe as scummy because of his noncommital bandwagony play and vote. So

vote: julienvonwolfe

Questions, comments?

[CallMeLiam]

Sorry havn't read up.

Mod: V/LA till 16th Dec

[rhetorical]

Wondering if this has any connection with the post immediately previous.

[/rhetorical]

Rhetorical or not, using people's V\LA status against them is awful.

[CallMeLiam]

JVW:

Your vote on torquez came with very little reasoning and at a time when the only debate going was torq vs DDD, and subsequent posts have had nothing to add except for dealing with things that directly concern your own defense. Also this:

I am following DDD's logic to see what comes of it.

don_j:

It's very interesting that you've chosen now to claim, why not wait until after at least one night cycle has gone by, in hopes of actually using your ability? These pros and cons you weighed, I like to hear them too.

[CallMeLiam]

I think the case on d_j is pretty slight actually, and his bulletproof status (if genuine) is pretty handy to the town especially later in the game. If we have a vig I'd suggest they test his claim out tonight to prepare for the late game. I think that your pushing of a lynch on him is pretty suspicious too I might add Josh.

Ultimately we do need to lynch today and I maintain that julien hasn't done anything decisive since I've been here and certainly not before that.

[CallMeLiam]

I think the case on d_j is pretty slight actually, and his bulletproof status (if genuine) is pretty handy to the town especially later in the game. If we have a vig I'd suggest they test his claim out tonight to prepare for the late game. I think that your pushing of a lynch on him is pretty suspicious too I might add Josh.

Ultimately we do need to lynch today

and I maintain that julien hasn't done anything decisive since I've been here and certainly not before that.

Are you advocating a no-lynch?

I hate that.

I am not pushing; I very clearly said I was inviting discussion on the topic.

If he truly is bulletproof, he could be useful. It's just my opinion, based on what he said (and other things, as I mentioned) that he's lying scum.

Bolded parts for emphasis.

I don't think he's been even remotely scummy enough to warrant a D1 lynch of a claimed power role, a claim that was made under zero pressure. This is a bad idea and I'm glad you've dropped it.

I don't like muh's disappearance, but with only a week left I also don't like your vote on him, especially not if you were so sure that d_j was lying scum only a few posts before.

[CallMeLiam]

Sorry, to clarify I don't like muh's disappearance and then re-appearance with nothing to add. His vanishing act isn't a tell either way if what he says is true.

[CallMeLiam]

Josh, doent your case on me seem a bit...... desperate. It seems like your looking for small reasons to get a lynch started.

Not that i disagree with the first half of this, but we're almost at deadline and we need to get moving on a lynch. Looking at the leading wagons 9Torq, DDD, JVW and Josh) I'm still happiest with Julien because not much has happened with him even after my vote went on but his push for the d_j lynch and switch to muh for no real reason, I'd be not unhappy with Josh as a second choice.

We need to lynch and I think these are the only two real targets.

[CallMeLiam]

^^ thoroughly unimpressed with this so close to deadline.

liam: what is the case on jvw? if its already posted just give me a post number. i find their pick up on josh lyman's behavior to be townish so i would like something to compare it to.

There was no detailed case, I just noted when I replaced in that I hadn't seen much unique or detailed thought from JVW, just sparse posts (including one popping in asking people to pipe up without providing any content of his own) and since then I am still yet to see any real substance. Even calling out Josh is something other people have done before. This close to the deadline anyone not acting with some urgency is looking unhelpful.

[CallMeLiam]

liam: the case is weak. join the josh lyman wagon. its stronger.

I'll switch if I have to (to ensure a lynch), but I'm sticking with JVW because I don't like how he's managing staying under the radar. That tells me someone's keeping the pressure aimed elsewhere and that sounds like scummy teamwork to me.

[CallMeLiam]

I'll catch up with the game on Day 2, for now we need to lynch

unvote, vote: josh lyman

Josh, if you're a power role claim now, it might not be too late.

[CallMeLiam]

Torq: the macho passive means he can't be protected. Whether this was just to prevent self-targeting or not I don't know but it is what it is. Or was.

ABR: When you say the same mechanics, do you mean the modular role PM's? If not, say no more.

Looking back at the damn near no-lynch yesterday I would looove to know what Scott was doing.

[CallMeLiam]

but one thing that irked me yesterday was Liam's hop onto the wagon.

How so?

[CallMeLiam]

Ok, D1 ended with a scum lynch, good. This game has officially peeked my interest.

So you weren't interested before? The D1 'slip' wasn't great, but this seems way less than pro-town.

Still

really

looking forward to that Brosius post.

[CallMeLiam]

DJ pointed out a 'slip' in [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 16#2008916]this/url] post. I'm not sure that's what it was, and it felt like DJ was reaching at the time which is what I meant by wasn't great.

[CallMeLiam]

DJ pointed out a 'slip' in this post. I'm not sure that's what it was, and it felt like DJ was reaching at the time which is what I meant by wasn't great.

yes, and regardless of the "quality" of the slip, you never responded or acknowledged it. You lurked through until deadline nearly costing us a no lynch. sitting on a wagon you're happy with and not checking the thread before deadline is anti-town.

I never responded or acknowledged it because I didn't think it was a slip or worth mentioning. I didn't lurk through til deadline, I shifted my vote when it was clear my preferred lynch wasn't happening and I did it with plenty of time to spare, like I had previously said I would. I think you're confusing me with someone else in the last half of that post.

[CallMeLiam]

In a turnaround from early day one, I agree with D_j that julien has been damn pro-town so far today and I also like his building of a case on muh although I'm not sure that it isn't a little tunnel visioned.

Chinaman I really didn't like the fact that you claimed D1 disinterested you. If the game is stagnating the best way out is posting and attacking, not your lurking til the end of the day. don's right, we need votes to get the game moving:

vote: Chinaman

It's been quiet over Christmas but hope fully I'll be able to post more and so will everyone else.

[CallMeLiam]

Here, and waiting for reactions from Chinaman and then Muh.

[CallMeLiam]

Muh, while I don't like the case on you a whole lot, I'd prefer if you were actively doing something rather than just waiting for others to slip up\make cases.

Away for the looong weekend due to New Year's, will be back on Monday. V\LA ahoy!

[CallMeLiam]

I'd rather wait for the replacements or people catching up, because hopefully with the holidays mostly over activity will pick up.

Also this is pretty scummy, pushing for lynches on people who are incapable of mounting a defence.

[CallMeLiam]

Muh, claim?

[CallMeLiam]

I would say that DJ is scummy as well even with the gift wrap of JL. Could be that he being JL's scum buddy decided to bus right off the bat. If muh flips scum, then I would say DJ is for sure town, but if muh flips town, I say DJ is scum due to me and muh (remember only if a town flip for muh) being on his list. I know I'm town and we will soon see a flip from muh, so if he flips town, that's 2 of the 3 players on his list that are town.

Anyway, L-1 for Muh now.

This just reads a lot like you know Muh is gonna be a mislynch and setting up for a push on the only claimed town power role so far for tomorrow.

I think more pressure needs to be on Chinaman before anyone hammers, since he's been actively scummy, which is much scummier than muh's general uselesness.

[CallMeLiam]

Muh, claim?

Unless you're threatening to hammer, you do not ask for a claim.

Disagree. We've got a pair of pretty heavy lurkers and I don't want scum dropping a quickhammer on a player I don't think is scum without him getting a chance to claim and shed some votes.

[CallMeLiam]

Although, if you aren't scum, you pretty much just told scum who to kill tonight anyway, so yeah, might as well claim.

Well, after p320, I NOW do think muh would be a mislynch.

Also, where the frack is there a claimed town PR thus far in the game. I do not see any. You sir are a liar. (ref p318)

So he highlights the fact that muh almost claimed power just in case anyone had missed it, he decides NOT to remove his vote from what he thinks would be a mislynch and he calls me a liar when as DDD points out, it's Chinaman that's lying.

Can we get a lynch on Chinaman PLEASE.

[CallMeLiam]

muh's power claim isn't surprising, but the fact that he's a macho doc too is interesting. It certainly solves why wulfy and he would be macho, to prevent a nigh unwinnable endgame for scum.

While I'd love for Scott's replacement to arrive soon, I'd also like to hear from ABR about DDD's vote on him (it looked like a fishing ploy to me but DDD knows him better).

Chinaman, how come you're not accusing me of being scum, despite me being fully on your bandwagon?

mod: prod on Torq?

[CallMeLiam]

To be honest, I had my suspicions of Muh as Doc since this post so I'm inclined to believe his claim, and I think that while the points about Muh's comical disappearance are valid, Adel's vote on him seems partially based out outguessing the mod and I don't really like votes for that reason.
Adel, what do you think about Chinaman, whom I still think is our best lynch for the day.

[CallMeLiam]

That probably should be *who I still think is our best lynch for the day, but 'tever.

[CallMeLiam]

Adel: The fact that Chinaman is on a wagon he believes to be a mislynch doesn't seem scummy to you at all? OK

re: ABR I've played with him once before, briefly, and his play in that game was so odd I did a meta read on him and yeah, this seems perfectly normal for him. It's annoying, but there you go.

Everyone: Chinaman hs yet to remove his vote or comment on anything to do with the case on him. This is scummy behaviour and you should vote for him to be lynched.

[CallMeLiam]

jvw: Two docs protecting each other would be impossible to kill at night, and as good as proven townies so unlynchable during the day. Removing the ability to protect each other takes this away.
adel: Post 321 is where he said it

[CallMeLiam]

.
adel: Post 321 is where he said it

funny, 322 makes you a lot more scummy to me than 321 makes Chinaman look scummy

Funny, post 322 isn't mine. You also ignored Paltry's question in post 369. Why don't you want to say anything at all about Chinaman Adel?

Chinaman: If you self-vote then I fully expect we'd have at least one scum on the wagon: you. So feel free.

[CallMeLiam]

Adel, care to fill us all in on what INT INV and ACT mean?

[CallMeLiam]

Adel, care to fill us all in on what INT INV and ACT mean?

If you can't figure out what INT and ACT mean then your (generic) INT score drops at least two points from where it was originally slotted.

I can live with that. Also now I'd not only like their meaning spelt out but how you think coded conversation is helpful to the town at this point in the game.

[CallMeLiam]

ABR: what was with the comical bullshit claim during twilight? This is the second time I've been in a game with you (FFVII Mafia was #1) and the second time you've lied through your teeth about being a PR. You've said you had something to say about the lynch but we're still waiting to hear it too.

Adel: Regardless of what ABR says why do you think he claimed cop?

[CallMeLiam]

Tempted to agree with Adel here, but then again I'd be loathe to vote for ABR and put him in range of a quickhammer after such a short day.

Muh, do you have anything to add about why his claim\unclaim\fumble was so scummy?

[CallMeLiam]

ABR: either you're being a dick by not replacing out and desperately trying to hurt the town or you're running an awful gambit or you're scum.
All I can do is echo everyone else in asking why not get yourself replaced out?

[CallMeLiam]

^^ this is terrible. Adel's next.

someone hammer this home.

What do you mean by these two things? You seem to think Adel's vote is scummy, but you also want someone to hammer?

[CallMeLiam]

I think we're massclaiming tomorrow

vote: ABR

[CallMeLiam]

I replaced in for the player list (which included Albert). But then I didn't even get a chance to post anything before dying. Forgot to add to my watched threads and then when I realized I'd forgotten it was night again, so I caught up, but then saw that I died

I still followed along though. Good job town!

As scum, I'm usually pretty wary of new players coming in and seeing the game as a whole. It screwed me in the past so I tried not to let it screw me here.

Good game overall, I was enjoying myself right up until I died.