Mini 896 - Jekyll Mafia - Game Over

[HackerHuck]

Vote: xvart

He was scum in the last game we played together and I can't see why he wouldn't be scum again.

Just a warning, but I had to do some unplanned travel for business so I may not be very active this week.

[HackerHuck]

I don't really see what all the fuss is regarding random votes, nor do I really see it as a phase that "ends". There's surprisingly too much discussion about random voting, so I'm glad I missed most of that. I'm not opposed to questions, so I'll join in.

1. My join date is pretty indicative of my experience level, although I have recently come back from a 9 month hiatus.

2. I love to be scum of any kind.

3. I'd prefer not to answer.

4. I've played with Ectomancer, xvart, and GreenCrayons (albeit I'm not 100% on that one.) Apparently, I've also played with Gerhard.

[HackerHuck]

Unvote

[b/]

Vote: 5vcm

I'm tiring of this quite rapidly.

[HackerHuck]

My question to HackerHuck was going to be followed up other questions based on his response. Because if he doesn't think that the RVS actually ends, then he certainly wouldn't mind people who tried to extend the RVS: after all, why is it scummy to extend something that never stops?

First, I don't see a lot of value in debating gameplay or theory in the abstract. It's useless clutter that takes away from hunting scum. Call me scrooge, but I also don't really believe that there's a "random voting phase". The game usually begins with a bunch of random votes, but not everyone's playing along the whole time. If you want to call it a random voting phase, it really ends at different times for different people and not everyone even participates.

So now I've just spent the last five minutes typing up something that has no real relevance to this game and will just take up space. That's why I don't want people to talk about the random voting phase.

[HackerHuck]

Then let's forget about this and go to a game-relevant question: What's your opinion of 5cvm?

Didn't you see my vote?
5cvm = scum

Gambits are scummy.

[HackerHuck]

·

I like Phantom's 110. Would like to see Huck's response.

I didn't think it needed a response

[HackerHuck]

The question asked was what I thought of 5cvm, not why did I vote for him originally.

At the time of my vote, I felt that he was just screwing around and not at all serious. I was getting tired of the game playing. When he admitted to the gambit, that just affirmed what I was thinking.

[HackerHuck]

When someone claims the knowledge that someone else is scum, common sense needs to come into play. What's the chances that the mod gave a town member information on who is scum and no restrictions whatsoever as to stating that person is scum, and what's the chance that scum would seriously pull a stunt like that? And honestly, if scum is stupid enough to do the latter in the first place, then I'm confident in the town's ability to catch them.

This is close to what I was thinking. 5cvm's information claim did not at all seem genuine, so I didn't even take it at face value when I voted. It became scummier to me when he confirmed that he was really trying to imply that he had inside knowledge of Nacho's alignment, but was doing it as a gambit.

I'm really surprised that no one else is bothered by it.

[HackerHuck]

Nacho, is there anything that you can think of that would cause 5cvm to call you out as scum per his role?

Rolefishing?

[HackerHuck]

That's a pretty nice little case there Ecto. I think we've found two scum on day 1!

[HackerHuck]

Well, I don't like making random, aggresive, mean-spirited accusations, so I have to resort to other things.

Except for the mean-spirited part, wasn't that exactly what you did?

Still thinking that 5cvm is scum and that MrSuave is one of his buddies.

[HackerHuck]

Unvote, Vote: Mr Suave

Just because we're discussing 5cvm at the moment doesn't mean you get to lurk, Suave.

Not a good reason to be voting for either MrSuave or for 5cvm.

do you think that MrSuave is really scummy for lurking or are you just trying to derail the wagon on 5cvm?

[HackerHuck]

Here's a hot tip.

Saying that you always appear scummy isn't a defence, rather a reason to lynch you.

[HackerHuck]

I'm going to have spotty internet access for the next couple of days due to travel, but I'll be back and more active by Wednesday.

noted

[HackerHuck]

One question: Do you believe that the scum team is "kikuchiyo, Mr. Suave, and 5cvm"? Or are your suspicions of each player independent?

That's an interesting question. Kikuchiyo - are you looking for potential scum pairings right now?

[HackerHuck]

The question asked was what I thought of 5cvm, not why did I vote for him originally.

At the time of my vote, I felt that he was just screwing around and not at all serious. I was getting tired of the game playing. When he admitted to the gambit, that just affirmed what I was thinking.

You're right. The question posed to you was what you thought of 5cvm. But it was you who then pointed to the fact that you were voting him, and then said gambits were scummy. You were the one who was equating your original vote with 5cvm pulling a gambit - neither Nacho nor Phantom made that connection for you.

That said, what exactly were you "thinking" that his gambit reveal confirmed?

Also, what do you think of raider/kiku?

What I was thinking was what "I felt" in the first part of that quote - that he was just screwing around and that he wasn't serious. As to your doubts about whether scum would do that, I believe that they would. I've seen scum (experienced players) pull stupid types of gambits before.

Kiku is a possibility to me. I'd have to go back and do a reread on him, but his recent comment on the competing wagons - while true - seems a little out of place as a reason for his wagon. I'm also a little leery of his last post where he's talking about a policy lynch.

[HackerHuck]

I took a look back at Kikuchiyo in isolation and have the following observations.

I am voting Nacho for his decision to not answer my questions. You have claimed "role information" which leads you to believe Nacho is 80-90% scum. Raider has voted Nacho based on the "false dilemma" that one of you two must be scum.

Out of those three reasons for a vote, mine is the least ridiculous. Also, if you are now backtracking and saying you don't think Nacho is scum, why are you leaving him at L-1? (btw: he's not at L-1)

Are you saying that your "role information" statement was some sort of gambit?

If so, why am I scum, but Unity isn't?

I do find it odd that someone who is trying to avoid the random voting aspect of the game places a slightly less random vote based on a poor response to non-game related questions. Since it isn't (as far as I can tell) any kind of scumtell to not answer your questions, it's similar to voting for someone who chooses not to partake in random voting.

This is interesting.

The biggest scum tell I see here is Mr. Suave not knowing if it was L-1, and staying on the wagon anyway even though he explicitly stated he didn't want the lynch to go through any time soon.

Essentially, 5cvm did the same thing.

Unvote, Vote: Mr. Suave

We seem to have two good candidates here. Lets see who wants to lynch who. Nothing like day 1 competing wagons.

so what, you're just jumping on my wagon just because? or do you have a reason?

I like ecto and Gerhard's reasoning. Competing wagons are good for town. They generate discussion and force more analysis and content imo.

OK, so you've basically admitted that Gerhard's reasoning also applies to 5cvm. You unvoted 5vcm to vote for Mr. Suave, so what exactly tipped the scales towards Mr. Suave?

The two most recent posts actually give me a little more concern. Post 190 is just a defence of 5cvm and a request for him not to claim. This last one is yet again an attempt at pushing off of the 5cvm wagon, while admitting that his case on Mr. Suave is pretty weak. I think it's time for Kiku to clarify her 180. I'd also like to know why she didn't vote for Raider for using the false dilemma she called out.

I don't see a 5cvm lynch as a policy lynch - or at least no one has said as much for their reasoning. I would like to see phantom actually do something except for reminding 5cvm that he has unanswered questions. We've got more than one scum, so it never hurts to look under a few more rocks.

[HackerHuck]

Not sure what you are getting at here. Perhaps you could clarify. Who exactly was "trying to avoid the random voting aspect of the game"? Seeing as how I didn't push a Nacho wagon very hard, or agree with any of the other crap reasons people were voting for him, I am not sure why you are choosing to attack said vote. It almost seems like you are implying some sort of hypocrisy on my part, but I fail to see it. What is wrong with voting someone who chooses not to partake in random voting? As far as I can tell, that happens all the time.

That one's my mistake. I thought you posed your list of questions as an alternative to random voting, but I see that it was done as an attempt to keep conversation moving.

Nothing "tipped the scales". I noticed the wagon on 5cvm growing quick. Its page 8. Competing bandwagons are good for town. Hypothetically speaking, if one of the lynches goes through and flips town, and lets say the other player gets vigged and flips scum, then we can focus on the players who jumped from the scum wagon to the town wagon. Its kind of "Scumhunting 101", not sure why that's not obvious. Neither case is all that good, however, both seem to be better than anything else. So why rush to lynch one when we can put heat on both and force all of the lurker non-voters to make a choice for possible future use in scumhunting?

Following your logic, you are setting yourself up as scum if 5cvm is scum, and Mr. Suave is town. That would imply that either you don't mind throwing unwarranted suspicion on yourself (anti-town) or that you actually think Mr. Suave is scummier - which you said wasn't the case.

I don't see a 5cvm lynch as a policy lynch - or at least no one has said as much for their reasoning.

No. Noone has said that as their reasoning, but if you actually look at the reasoning, it seems as though the case is built around his poor playstyle and his weak ass gambit. Granted, he seemed to be convinced that I was scum, but he has been unable to present any coherent reasoning for anything he's done. It certainly feels like its a policy lynch to me.

I guess you could consider it "policy" to always vote for someone who looks scummy.

I would like to see phantom actually do something except for reminding 5cvm that he has unanswered questions. We've got more than one scum, so it never hurts to look under a few more rocks.

So I take it that you are convinced that 5cvm is mafia aligned?

I'm pretty sure this is my quote. My whole point is that Phantom shouldn't just sit on his hands waiting for 5cvm to reply. When we have more than one scum left, it's not good scumhunting to just do nothing while waiting for someone to answer a question that they may never get around to answering. That is just the appearance of scumhunting and is itself scummy. And yes, I believe 5cvm is scum, which should be pretty apparent from my vote and justification for my vote.

[HackerHuck]

I'm not much of a morning person either

I'll make the same point as I made earlier. If you don't want people to think you're scum, don't act scummy. If you're town, that's even more important because you're just taking away attention from the true scum.

I see Gerhard's point on Kiku, but I'm not ready to place her above 5cvm or Mr. Suave right now. I'd like to get some more peoples' opinions on the two main wagons right now.

[HackerHuck]

I would say that it's not a policy lynch to go after 5cvm for his behaviour and even Green Crayons has corroborated my assertion that scum do act that way from time to time. Yes, townies gambit too, but townies also do scummy things and get lynched for them, so that's a really crap reason not to vote for him. As to why he's higher on my list than those others, I don't really like the case on Nacho and while Kiku is creeping up my scum list with her reactions to your vote, I'm still happier lynching either Mr Suave or 5cvm. Considering my original vote was on 5cvm and nothing convinces me that Mr Suave is

more

likely to be scum, I'm not going to change my vote.

We've got a few more days until 5cvm is back though, so we definitely don't want to sit on our hands until then.

What are the thoughts on Raider's recent contribution. I'm starting to get the feeling that he's lurking until something happens that he can join in on.

[HackerHuck]

Well, let's see if MrSuave is paying attention. I'm reserving my right to go back to 5cvm when he returns, but MrSuave looks like he needs a little more pressure.

Unvote
Vote: MrSuave

[HackerHuck]

Mod: How's the search for a Unity replacement going?

This is an odd post.

First, he just requested to be replaced yesterday.
Second, you either have a replacement or you don't. I seriously doubt the mod would say that he has one, but forgot to tell us.
And finally, why are you so concerned about a replacement now?

[HackerHuck]

Why was that post such a big deal?

Because I found it odd. I often like to leave notes for myself in thread as well as see what kind of reactions I may get from others.

[HackerHuck]

The burden of proof is on you at the moment, not on us. Part of the reason people are voting you is for lurking. If you

want to not be lynched

are town, convince me.

Fixed.

When faced with the prospect of a lynch, it's always a good idea to not be so introspective. Even if you don't feel like you can defend against the case on you, try to do a little scumhunting or at least get your opinions out in the open. You might uncover a better wagon or at least give the other townies some nuggets to work with on the following day. The absolute wrong thing for a town to do is shut down and lurk.

[HackerHuck]

Let's wait and see how long it takes to get replacements, but I don't think it should be a week.

If we're going to get an extension, I'd like people to actually use the time to post. I'm a little worried that we're going to get a few extra days, but no extra content.

[HackerHuck]

MrSuave - You are not trying. You haven't done shit since I voted you. At this point it would be more beneficial to the town to mislynch you rather than a scummy, cuz they will keep you around till lylo, and you will make us lose.

Prove me wrong.

This post seems to imply that you think he's town. What have you seen that would cause you to change your mind?

Deleted a

lot

of duplicate-posts.

[HackerHuck]

Raider, Kiku, Phantom - Why aren't you voting for anyone?

We got an extension, but you guys should take a stand or at least explain why you don't like the Mr Suave wagon.

[HackerHuck]

I don't think Slaxx can really do much before deadline to convince me he's town, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt today (as long as he doesn't do anything scummy). I think Mr Suave is looking like a good lynch today, so I'm happy with my vote.

Is there a case on Raider that doesn't rest solely on his experienced/inexperienced contradiction?

[HackerHuck]

So Peanut, do you really think Mr Suave is scum or are you just voting for him because he's not helpful?

[HackerHuck]

Has there been a claim?

No, but there needs to be one today or tomorrow. I don't want a claim to throw off the lynch and not give us time to regroup before deadline.

[HackerHuck]

Let's give Green Crayons until Thursday to post before anyone drops the hammer. I'd like to see what he has to say before we go to night. If anyone's strongly opposed to the Mr Suave lynch, you better speak up now.

[HackerHuck]

Until the mod closes the thread, Green Crayons can still post his thoughts. I would still encourage him to do so, since you never know who will be the NK and it's nice to have more to ponder during night.

I have no problem with Kiku's hammer, but that doesn't mean I think he's town.