Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[Socrates]

Hi Socrates. Good to see you again. I'm beginning to think you're stalking me because you're a drama-junkie.

Florida and Montana are the two next in line for an imprint and noone is on both.

Limerick's imprinters are Limerick, KoC, farside22 and Plum/Socrates
Pug's imprinters are Pug, SerialClergyman and Reck.

Reck is also imprinting 5 people, none of which are Limerick.

You know, when I looked at the last ten pages of this game to decide whether or not to replace and saw that you had once again got yourself into hot water, I said to myself "Somebody has to get in there and save that man!"


First off:

unimprint:Everyone

imprint:Socrates

I don't know much about the current situation, so all imprint votes come off.

So. I started to read this game and got bogged down in the very beginning of it all. It would take me an extremely long time to actually get that all read. I plan to work on getting that reading done, but in the meantime I still want to contribute to this game, so I plan on posting off of my incomplete picture of the game. (I predict not 3 posts will pass before someone votes me for "deciding not to contribute" or something)

Some questions for anyone that wants to answer:

Why did Deathnote die?
Why did Starbuck die?
Why was theButtonmen imprinted? Does it have to do with his attempts to break the game in the first few posts?
Why is Limerickx the next leading imprint wagon?

Have these questions already been asked of the Mod?

mod: Is imprinting guaranteed to have a beneficial effect on the recipient? If not, is it possible for an imprint to have

negative

effects upon them, such as loss of vote, millerdom, change of alignment, post restrictions, nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, or death?
Mod: Are the effects of the imprint guaranteed to be an activated ability of some sort, or can passive ones be granted as well, such as a double vote?

I looked over the last few pages and I have a hard time seeing a scumbag make anything near the posts that SC has been making. and some of the points I saw against him made me frown deep frowns.
CrashTextDummy's posts are interesting. Their sheer volume makes me just want to say town because of the amount of effort that kind of posting requires. I see SC is suspicious of him. Want to sum that up real quickly, SC?
Can someone sum up the case on Reck in LESS than 4 paragraphs? Lets keep this short and sweet people.
I see KOC is trucking on through, playing the catch up game. I don't envy you.
Where is Pug?

I would like to throw an idea out there, and see if it takes.

I would like the town to as a group swear not to shoot if they gain a vig ability.

This would royally screw over the scum, as it ensures that the scum will never be able to use a NK, even if they gain the ability to. Thoughts? Criticisms? FOSes?

[Socrates]

posting to add this to my watch list.

[Socrates]

The case in short on reck:
He flip flopped his views on SB day 2 with no cause.
He jumped on a BW from SC to SB day 2 after calling SC out saying he was trying to set up SB's lynch. (IE: look how reck jumps on a BW with little reason) some people are talking about the digging hole comment (I can see this as an attempt to jump on a weak vote and BW against me).


Sorry if that wasn't 40 words or less I wasn't counting.

Intriguing. So the case seems to be that he changed his views at convenient times?

I'll look into this myself when I get more time, but if anyone knows this information off-hand, I would appreciate it:
What was the status of the Starbuck wagon when he flip-flopped?
Has Reck done this with other players than Starbuck/SC?
Was Reck on the DeathNote wagon? If so, when did he join?
How signifigant a factor was Reck on both of these wagons? (As in, would the wagon be able to go through if he decided to stay off?)

@RECK: Can I get a scumlist from you?

[Socrates]

Thank you for answering my questions SC. I gather from the recent discussion that SC and EK have strong town reads on each other and are vocal about it?

I am going to be different and say that that is not scummy, and the amount of hoopla that seems to be being made about it is quite interesting. Scum tieing themselves so strongly to their partner is quite frankly terrible scum strategy, and there is no reason for them to do it other than a WIFOM gambit. I hope SC and EK know what they are doing though, because a scum would LOVE to form that kind of connection with a townie.

[Socrates]

As to the discussion about whether or not to imprint another person, I don't think there is much optimal strategy here than to vote to imprint your strongest town reads and nothing more. If there isn't a second person that we feel we can trust with a power role, then we shouldn't force ourselves to do so, and if there IS a person we think we can trust, then you should vote to support that guy, regardless of the previous number of imprints.

I would like to have a few personal interactions with Limerickx and Pug (they are the leading imprint getters, right), before I make a decision about that.

Pug and Limerickx, can I get scum lists from both of you?

[Socrates]

I've been fairly clear that I am most suspicious of SC. I don't like the logic he uses....anywhere. I didn't like the hammer of DN when everyone else was talking about imprinting. 'Taking matters into your own hands' always puts me ill at ease. He led what I felt was a weak SB lynch in day 2. He pointed out other players poor voting records, when his was most suspicious of anyone else’s. He started favoring imprinting and not lynching only after SBs lynch, which would put him under the most suspicion.

What were you doing day 2 when SC was leading what you felt was a bad lynch?
Regarding your last two points, what would you

expect

a town SC to do, that those points are scummy?

I started with a town read on Messiah, but that decreased as the game went on. Since being replaced by CTD, I am feeling much better, and wonder if my increasing suspicion of Messiah was simply the result of Messiah being less and less involved, and maybe my initial read was correct.

Would you please explain what you mean by your town read decreased as time went on? What did he do that you don't like?

Plum, I find hard to get a read on. Really long catch-up posts, lots of V/LA. I can admit when I just ::shrug:: at times. I DO note that she is not voting to imprint any of the top getters, for what it’s worth, and her only vote imprint vote other than the one for herself rests on Elvis, who, whatever your feeling are regarding her, I just don't think is one of the 'safer' picks. In other words, if Buttonmen turned out being scum, I'd be like "Really? Well, he fooled me." If Elvis turned out to be scum, would anyone be THAT surprised?

So you don't feel Plum could justify a town read on Elvis?

Buttonmen: I voted to imprint him, so that should be an indicator that I think he is town. Same reasons apply as to most people.

What has buttonmen done other than the early discussions about gamebreaking that makes you think he is town?

xReckx: I get a bad vibe off. I didn't get where he was going with Farside digging a hole for herself, He seems to be pushing hard for a Pug imprint (followed by relative silence from Pug, one of the reasons why I am reluctant to vote to imprint Pug)
In fact, I think this deserves a little more 'indepthness', which I'll do in a following post.

Did you ever do this 'indepthness'?

Re: Buttonmen's game breaking stuff. Can someone tell me why this makes him likely town? I'll tell you this much, the first thing I would do as scum in this type of game would be to play a game of "Lets break the setup guys!" in order to score easy town points while being completely comfortable in the thought that any half competent Mod or their reviewers would have caught any gamebreaking strategy's. It allows one to avoid taking any alignment significant stances while still appearing to have to towns best interest at heart.

Is it scummy? Hell no.
Is it null? hell yes.

Imprints may have the potential to negatively affect one's faction, but they all have a potential positive effect too. There are no purely negative imprints.

Would you classify a paranoid or naive cop investigation as a purely negative imprint?

[Socrates]

@ Socrates; Have you finished your read through?

Not yet, but I am working on it. It been pretty slow going so far, what with other commitments and my decision to focus on current affairs.

Re: people's speculation on the Mod's answer to my question, it can't hurt to ask, now can it?

Farside, thank you for answering those questions. Do you think it is possible for Messiah and Reck to both be scum who switched wagons in quick succession? In my experience scum don't like to act so synchronized.

SC, I notice you have a town read on VMD and I feel you are the best person to discuss this with because I wont have to rehash my thinking to explain this.

I just saw this post by VMD:

Lim, I'm flattered by you voting to imprint me and all, but I question you voting to imprint yourself. I have had a town read on you, but I had a town read on elvis too, prior to her so eagerly voting to imprint herself. I am of the opinion that no one should vote to imprint themselves.

Not to make you second-guess yourself, but why do you think I am worthy of being imprinted? What makes you so sure I'm town?

So, my question is: Why hasn't VMD (or her replacement) been hung like the scum she is?

[Socrates]

Limrickx, I don't see a single thing in your case on Serial that is actually scummy.

Being confident is your reads is NOT an alignment tell. The fact that you are using it to both cast suspicion on SC and to explain a town read on Button is evidence of that. Don't think that by hanging a lampshade on it will let you get away with contradictory logic.

Hammering to cut off discussion is about the lamest point one can make when you consider the fact that the game is

functionally nightless

. You guys are talking, someone hammers, and then... you guys go on talking.

You still haven't answered why Serial being pro-imprints today is

scummy

and you didn't answer my question about what you would have expected a town SC to do differently.

I don't really have issue with anything else you wrote. One observation is that I don't find it surprising that you are the top imprint getter, since none of your reads are controversial or in conflict with the rest of the town's.

Anyway, yes these questions were because I wanted to get a better feel for the top imprint getter.

I still want a scum list from Pug.

[Socrates]

I'd vote KOC over Reck right now, personally.

His posts have been big stinking piles of donkey doo doo and his predecessor gave off my favorite scum tell for games of this style.

The case on Reck has merit, and there certainly is no exclusivity to my knowledge between those two, but I would want KOC lynched first.

Admittedly, this could be just because I haven't seen RECK post yet, out of sight and all that jazz.

Still want that scum list from RECK.

As far as imprints go, my discussions with Limerickx has only reinforced my town read on SC, but beyond him, I have tentative town reads on other players (Elvis, Farside) but nothing strong enough to justify an imprint vote.

imprint: SerialClergyman

[Socrates]

I don't have much time to write a long post, but one note:

Would scum ever be so bold as to quick hammer an imprint on their buddy? No.

[Socrates]

Maybe I was speaking a bit absolutist, and when I think about it, I can think of a whole bunch of gambits that they can pull if Limerickx and Button are scum, but when in doubt, I assume conservative scum.

Bleh. I want to say there are scum within the people who have supported suddenly with little reasoning regardless of Limrickx's alignment based on prior experience, but there is also the mitigating factor that this day seems to be dragging without a lynch in sight, and I can see townies getting impatient.

I am ready to end this day. I will continue working on my read during night.

I still want Knight of Cydonia lynched and I would request that any investigations are directed towards him, and RECK's return from VLA has not inspired me in the least.

Is there anything that needs to be discussed before the day is ended?

[Socrates]

I said I would hammer if nobody had anything more they wanted to say before we went to night, but I haven't done it yet.

To add my two cents to the discussion about the wagon analysis, my mentality is closest to what CTD is arguing. Some of this discussion about where people are seem to be focusing entirely upon the two people who gained majority while ignoring those that were at 3 votes or so, which is important.

The question must be asked that why were these two people specifically able to move up to a true majority OVER the other people. Them truely looking more pro-town is a valid answer, but I personally have yet to see why Button has earned that distinction and, personally, I am not THAT much more confortable with Limerickx over the other players in this game, like Farside or Elvis. I think there HAS to be SOME kind of scum manipulation there. Note that this doesn't mean that Button and/or Limerickx HAS to be scum, but it is remarkable to say the least in my mind..

[Socrates]

I said I would hammer if nobody had anything more they wanted to say before we went to night, but I haven't done it yet.

To add my two cents to the discussion about the wagon analysis, my mentality is closest to what CTD is arguing. Some of this discussion about where people are seem to be focusing entirely upon the two people who gained majority while ignoring those that were at 3 votes or so, which is important.

The question must be asked that why were these two people specifically able to move up to a true majority OVER the other people. Them truely looking more pro-town is a valid answer, but I personally have yet to see why Button has earned that distinction and, personally, I am not THAT much more confortable with Limerickx over the other players in this game, like Farside or Elvis. I think there HAS to be SOME kind of scum manipulation there. Note that this doesn't mean that Button and/or Limerickx HAS to be scum, but it is remarkable to say the least in my mind..

I kind of left this hanging.

The conclusion that I draw from this line of thinking is that I think there is at minimum two scum between the wagons for both players and I would not be surprised in the least if the entire scum team would be found in this set of 7 players: {Button, Limerickx, Reck, KOC, CTD, Pug, Farside}

I would eat my fricken hat if both Elvis and Serial are scum and both chose to avoid being on either imprint.

[Socrates]

That sounds nothing like what CTD was saying, Soc.

I didn't appreciate that - I was going to hammer yesterday but figured I'd let final discussions happen and now there's a conversation. I'll be around to hammer after CTD writes up his comments on farside's stuff.

Those were mostly independent thoughts and I should have put that sentence on a different line. I mean that I agree that the wagon analysis that was going on seemed overly simplistic and I thought the objections he raised over them were good ones.

you didn't appreciate what?

[Socrates]

Serial, please explain to me why scum would consider a single player that has a dubious reputation with about half of the players in the game calling one of their buddies town to be a free pass to dogpile on her ASAP?

Also, I can see a very strong scum motivation to do what you are doing, and that gives me the willies.

KOC's latest post just goes on to further prove that he needs to die.

[Socrates]

Farside is removed from both Reck and myself, the two biggest suspects of today. I can't think of anyone who actively thinks she's scum apart from Reck, even elvis has changed her mind on farside. I imprinted her, elvis said she read town. If she were scum, there would be three daytalking players who have a strong vested interest in seeing her imprinted. You can't tell me that none of them would even put a feeler out about possibly getting her imprinted. She would have been a perfect candidate. It's not just that she didn't get a triple imprint directly after, it's that there was no reaction at all from anyone.

And more than that, farside has hardly been my buddy this game. We've been at loggerheads, with serious personal, playstyle and logical issues with each other. It's not the same as me imprinting elvis, this is a thorn in your side suddenly becoming an ally, and that's fruit that's too sweet for scum to ignore, I'm sure.

I can think of a few scenarios where a scum team that contains Farside but not you would avoid going for a Farside imprint. For instance, one of Button and Limerickx could be scum and the mafia doesn't want to get too greedy and risk tying themselves together too strongly. Or maybe they see the only player supporting Farside is a player with a lot of suspicion on him and decide that she appears to be an unlikely prospect.

What is the very strong scum motivation? Explain to me the scenario.

Imagine, if you will, a strange and mysterious world, much like our own. The scum team is Serial, Farside, and, say, Knight of Cydonia. Farside has been doing a good job distancing herself away from her scum buddies while Serial uses his slippery ways to talk his way out of suspicion, while both have been working together to set up the next mislynch, Reck (not that Reck needed much help doing that himself). A lucky mistake early on on Serial's part has turned out in his favor, leaving Elvis as putty in his hands, eating up every word he says. He has even managed to lead the incredibly handsome, yet even more intelligent, yet

even more

handsome Socrates astray.

"Bwahahahaha!" Serial laughs to himself, stroking his cat and twirling his long mustache. Victory was in his grasp! Nothing stood in his way! He had done what he could to protect Knight, but alas, he has proven himself a liability by walking around with a big sign on his head that said "I'm scum" on it. He would have to be dealt with soon, but no matter.

But what is this? A reckless town has made one of Serial's enemies, Limrickx, more powerful than Serial was prepared to deal with! If Limrickx uncovered Reck's innocence, or even worse, Serial's guilt, then his web of lies might be unraveled! He had been ready to just hope with Button, who said he would Vig serial, but would use an investigation elsewhere, but with a second detractor on his heels, he could feel his house of cards collapse all around him. His attempts to discredit Limrickx proving to be for naught, he cries out "Curses! But I have one more trick up my sleeve!"

He would have to get one of his own on the inside before the day was out. He quickly cooks up a reason to call Farside obv town and starts his push! Will Serial succeed at leading the town down a path of ruin, or will our intrepid hero - that sexual hunk, Socrates - finally see this wretched facade for what it truly is?

[/cliffhanger ending]

It might be wildly paranoid speculation with no grounding to base it on, but I would say it makes for a compelling narrative, does it not?

(For those that don't want to sort through my over active imagination: A single investigation on either Reck or Serial would cause great problems for a SC/Farside/KOC scum team. At this point, they could not afford to just sit around and let the newly crowned power roles rip them apart, and a desperate scum team might conspire to try and get one of their own imprinted at the last minute.)

Am I the one that is being too paranoid now?

[Socrates]

Bleh. I would need to examine your interactions with farside more closely, but it seems to me that faking a playstyle clash would be an easy and safe way to manufacture a bus without having to worry about too much of it sticking, especially if there is a history of this kind of thing.

Idunno, maybe I am letting needless anxiety make me second guess myself. And I am not really comfortable with either lim or button, and I have been telling myself that I need to trust my initial reads more.

I want some commentary from someone other than sc or farside.

[Socrates]

I don't have a problem with a third person being imprinted. To quote myself from when I replaced into the game:

As to the discussion about whether or not to imprint another person, I don't think there is much optimal strategy here than to vote to imprint your strongest town reads and nothing more. If there isn't a second person that we feel we can trust with a power role, then we shouldn't force ourselves to do so, and if there IS a person we think we can trust, then you should vote to support that guy, regardless of the previous number of imprints.

The only reason in my opinion to resist an imprint on another person is if you are not comfortable with a town read on them.

As I have said before, I did have a town read on Farside (or at least a stronger one than I had on Limrickx or Button), and to be honest I think I am letting the weirdness of the way SerialClergyman claims to have cleared her (which I still don't agree with, btw) interfere with pretty much my entire view of the game up to that point.

So ya.

imprint:Farside

[Socrates]

TheButtonmen
Limerickx
farside22

That's the order I'd like to hear claims in.

In the mean time,

Vote: KoC

This man knows what he is doing.

vote:KOC

[Socrates]

So we got zero information out of this, and the only thing that changed is scum might have a power role now? That is awful frustrating...

I don't know what to make of the whole clash between buttonmen and others, but the egg is certainly on Elvis's face about a second person indeed getting a kill.

Although, now that I think about it, 2 vigs and zero information roles is weird. And claiming to have gotten a vig would be a convenient claim for a scumbag since it contains no information whatsoever.

So what now?

I kinda want to get with the lynching, especially considering that I am fairly confident in my suspicion on KOC.

[Socrates]

There are many roles that are easily claimed as scum. Doc, for example. Roleblocker too.

I'm not 100% sure what you guys were hoping for, 3 x cop was never exactly going to be likely.

For me, the value in lynching buttonman has just gotten significantly higher, because I don't like his flavour and the fact he didn't vig despite saying he would, and his switch of targets and because limerick and buttonman are now very dangerous if scum.

Socrates, have you done any meta on KoC? That's my only real concern.

Yea, but Vig is something that there is a town consensus on how best to use the ability, and that is to do nothing with it at all. A Doc or a Roleblock would still give out some information in the form of how the person would justify their use of the role. "I protected person X for reason Y". "I didn't RB because I am confident that the other two imprintees are town." Something like that.

I am very lazy about meta'ing. I still have getting a scum meta on you on my to do list since mayor mafia. It is very time intensive and I have a hard time drawing conclusions from that stuff, so I tend to put it off.

[Socrates]

If Button IS scum, why did he decline to shoot last night after so thoroughly setting up that he was going to? Cold feet?

[Socrates]

Farside, what is your answer to this question:

If Button IS scum, why did he decline to shoot last night after so thoroughly setting up that he was going to? Cold feet?

[Socrates]

Zzz. I'm at a loss. I hate being at a loss.

Anyone have any bright ideas?

Well, as I see it, we have 3 options. Continue playing the imprint and wait game (ineffective so far), lynch one of the imprintee's (Button not killing is pretty weird regardless of alignment, and he was pretty scummy before that in my eyes), or lynch some one else (May I recommend KOC?).

[Socrates]

These verbal sparring contests never do much for me other than leave me disinterested and wanting to move on to talk about something else.

I guess I could see myself a part of a buttonmen lynch at this point, but my preference is well known.

Elvis, I don't think optimal imprint strategy has changed at this point, personally. imprint your town reads and don't let it get too much more complicated.

Regarding that,

imprint: me, imprint Serialclergyman

[Socrates]

I am so full of apathy right now...

Yay that my preferred lynch is gaining steam, I guess.

Someone say something to get me interested in this game again.

[Socrates]

That's why we should imprint the same people - then we can narrow it down to two people who had a NK ability. If there is a NK, then we lynch Buttonmen or Lim. As for your other question, gimme till tomorrow, I'm drunk.

If Knight flips town, please remind me about this post.

Has anyone else been saying something like this?

[Socrates]

I really don't want to play a game of "who's the safest lynch?" Lets just kill the damn scummy guy and we can move on from there. KOC's turbo mega lurking is miles scummier than Buttonman.

Incidentally, what is your current read of Limerickx, Farside?

Also, if I searched through your ISO looking for KOC/Vala what would I find?

[Socrates]

Also, after thinking about it, I totally agree with CTD that we should not imprint at all until after we see the flip of whoever we lynch today.

unimprint:everyone

[Socrates]

Checking in.

/sadface at KOC still being alive.

Serial's "spirited but weak" attempt at a trap is sending off alarm bells in my head again...

I haven't really evaluated the Farside/Limrickx back and forth (What with the apathy and all), but surface reaction is the same as the Farside/Buttonmen back and forth.

@Farside: Do you think it is possible that both Limerickx and Button are scum?

What I don't want us to do is to get into some sort of "One of the imprintee's MUST be scum!" mindset.

On a completely unrelated note: I keep forgetting Pug is in this game. Note to self: re-read Pug

C'mon guys. Lets do this tomorrow. KOC is dead scum walking.

@CTD: Scum list:

Scumbag:
KOC

Not as strong a read, but willing to entertain the possibility:
RECK
Buttonmen

Great big amorphous ooze of uncertainty:
Elvis
Limerickx
Pug

Town read:
SerialClergyman
Farside
CTD

[Socrates]

HEY GUIZ! I am starting a new boycott of pointless buzzwords and vow from this point forward to never use these words again. You should join me! If you guys can think of any words to add to the list, let me know!

Next time you find yourself wanting to use one of these words, try formulating the argument without using the word. If you can't, you are probably misusing the word anyway.

See my new sig.

Calling a counter-attack OMGUS without addressing the actual reasoning that a person has used is turbo lame (Farside did eventually address the case itself though, so I have no problem with her, in this case.)

It is, along with most of these buzzwords, a way to call someone scummy without actually examining their thought process or argumentation, (read: convenient rhetorical devices for scum bags) and I have never seen it actually catch a mafioso, but have seen it catch plenty of townies.

[Socrates]

Hey SC, Why does you feeling better about Lim make you move off of KOC?

[Socrates]

Socrates, before I even read anything, I like the idea of your list of words. I think WIFOM and OMGUS need a total theory workout (WIFOM =/= argument over, OMGUS =/= argument over or scumtell).

But by FAR the most meaningless word on site is 'misrep'. I have almost never seen scum purposefully take a statement and change it's meaning in order to make someone look worse. 99.999% of 'misreps' are simply natural 'Chinese whispers-esque' variations in understanding of meaning and context.

As for KoC - I just have a gut feeling on buttonman that I want him lynched now more than ever. I don't have that about KoC, and I'm unwilling to keep voting an empty slot. I think I switched because I want my vote to reflect my desire at the moment, which is a button lynch.

*slaps own forehead* Of course, misrep! Leave it to Socrates to forget the one of the worst ones of them all.

[Socrates]

If these posts get any longer, I am going to stab myself in the eye.

Guys guys guys. Wall o' text battles are anti-town. Stop it. Then vote KOC.

[Socrates]

To the people that are not voting: Why are you not voting? Who is scum?

[Socrates]

So I got a virus on my computer yesterday. I'm trying to get back into things. Can someone TLDR for me?

To the people that are not voting: Why are you not voting? Who is scum?

The exact people who are not voting are my picks for scum! Do I get a prize?

They must not be voting because they are the scum team and you caught them, so they gave up!

The prize is that we lynch them. Starting with KOC, of course.

TLDR: Farside and Limerickx got into a wall o' text battle and now are convinced that the other is scum. KOC has continued to dazzle the town with his thurough scum hunting and high activity, and everyone is convinced that he is town.

[Socrates]

The prize is that we lynch them. Starting with KOC, of course.

Who do you think is scum with KOC?

Buttonman seems like a fine choice for a scum buddy. I never felt that the Reck suspicion was unwarranted, and Reck's vote on KOC is about when I would expect scum to start to bus.

If we were to examine the other players in the game purely from the perspective of activity, Pug certainly stands out.

I don't get super duper town from Limerickx like SC, but I don't think your case on him is too strong and there are much better leads in my view. I think you both are tunneling on each other too hard.

There is some other stuff that I am toying with in my mind, but they are so weak so as to be insignifegant, especially while KOC's alignment is still unkown.

[Socrates]

Between this site making me want to tear my hair out, and my computer making me actually tear my hair out, and stressful classes making my hair fall out, I have not been able to post much lately.

Tomorrow. Maybe.

[Socrates]

Man, I LOOOVE lurking! Its so much fun. We should all do it! owait we already are.

no seriously, I am considering moving onto Buttonmen just to try and dislodge this deadlock.

Limerickx, do you really think that your vote is doing ANY good where it is right now?

Buttonmen, KOC, Pug, fraking VOTE!

[Socrates]

My computer imploded. V/LA until further notice.

[Socrates]

I found a computer I can use for a bit, but all I have to say is this:

I give up!

unvote, Vote:Buttonman

This day needs to end.

[Socrates]

Bleh. I'm depressed.

I am having a really hard time caring about what happens in this game.

Even button flipping scum wouldn't really inspire me at this point.

I won't replace out because that would be rude and this game has had enough replacements already, but that is why my activity is on the decline.

[Socrates]

vote: Knight of Cydonia

I really shouldn't compromise on my reads.

[Socrates]

Hello. I just want a KOC lynch. I don't have much else to say at this point.

Serial, before you use meta, have you ever seen KOC play as scum?

Elvis, what makes you and farside obv-town?

[Socrates]

Hey CTD, can I just take your posts and just plagiarize them? Its a lot harder to work up the energy to make a detailed post when you keep posting pretty much exactly what I am thinking before I get the chance to post.

In other news, Pug needs to be replaced.

[Socrates]

Socrates. Am I scum?

*shrug* Idunno. I officially can't read you, considering that I was wrong about you in both of the games we have been together in in the past.

Most of the stuff that people seem to be flinging at you seem to be based on being inconsistent, which is something I personally don't consider a scum tell. In fact, stuff like that usually feels like a town tell to me because it means that you are not putting a filter on your thoughts. Switching from KOC to Buttonmen in order to end a day that is dragging on is obviously something that I don't object to because I did it too. Also, blatantly fishing for participation like this when the motivation for doing so is obviously not to push a wagon is another point on the town card.

So the answer it no, for now. I remember that I was mildly suspicious of you earlier, but I can't remember why.

Which leaves me at a wierd place, because now I don't know where my suspicions should lie right now.

This game really deserves a re-read from me.

[Socrates]

Hmm... I've been thinking.

People have mentioned pug and Reck being on both Buttonman's imprint wagon and lynch wagon as points against them, but it seems they have conveniently forgotten someone else who has also done that.
This person also wasn't on the KOC wagon, and in fact managed to make no significant stance whatsoever on the wagon yesterday instead choosing to talk around it for the duration.
This person also got what I felt was a verrry sudden and verrry weird imprint push that sent off alarm bells in my head when it went down, and I feel bad for letting myself get browbeat into going along with it.

Someone mind telling me why farside is, like, obv-town?

[Socrates]

i have been prodded. Sorry, I haven't been paying too much attention to this game.

What is the case on Ortolan, again?

[Socrates]

mod:

due to real life issues I am not able to live up to my mafia commitments at this time, and I am requesting replacement in all of my ongoing games. Sorry.

[Socrates]

I totally replaced into this game ready to break it right open. I had Vala and Pug pegged as scum, CTD and SC was an obvious town on town fight, Elvis looked good and the amount of vitriol that Elvis and SC's mutual buddying drew made it obvious that their reads were good. I had some kind of town tell on Reck (though I can't remember what it was for the life of me).That left the third buddy among: Plum, Limrickx, Button, Farside. I ISO'd plum and didn't find anything remarkable and thought there was a good chance that I would be replacing into a pro-town slot, so I PM'ed the mod and hoped.

I was sooo disappointed when I got my role PM.

I thought I was doing a pretty good job towards the beginning, but my play in this game really degraded as time went on. Having two lurkers for scum buddies and the town correctly imprinting three townies in one day really left me demoralized and it got a lot harder for me to work up the energy to do what I needed to do in order to stand a shot and winning, which was quite a bit.

The scum team absolutely NEEDED to do something about the Farside-Elvis-SC love triangle, and this was something the scum needed to be pro-active about. Day 5 I was confident that I could have drummed up the support to get a Farside lynch pushed through (I felt she was the weakest link in that chain) with Ortolan, Reck, and pug (and maybe CTD) on the wagon. After a farside lynch, I felt Ortolan and then Reck would fall in pretty quick succession, and then if Pug got lynched in the mean time that would mean CTD, SC, Elvis, and me in the end game, which would be tough but I think was my only shot.

Unfortunately this was around the time that I had to replace out of all my games because of real life issues and I never had the time to flesh out a believable case on Farside.

Pulindar did very well with a slot where my lurking was quickly depleting the town cred that Plum and I had gathered earlier. Props to him, definitely.

Elvis was the primary problem of the town. Literally every player seemed to have a town read on her and her own town reads were solid, even if her scum reads weren't, which turned out to be a greater problem than CTD who was generally on the right track about everything in the game but me and SC, but didn't have the town cred to capitalize on it.

One thing this game illustrates very well is that not having a night kill is VERY hard on the mafia. A single NK on Elvis would have swung the outcome of the game very dramatically, I feel. When the town contains multiple strong, nearly unlynchable players with absolutely no way to deal with them, the scum team really starts the game off on their back foot, even though they would appear to have a numbers advantage.

Another thing this game illustrates is just how important it is to have an active scum team. It would have been a lot harder for the town to have developed such strong town reads on each other if the mafia was around to run interferance. Instead, there were stretches were the ENTIRE scum team lurked, which is bad bad bad.

In the end, the town played very well and the scum not so much. I am as responsible for that as anybody. Sorry to my fellow scumbuddies for having to replace out.