Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Unvote
Remove All Imprintsmy predecessor had posted, if any.
WARNING! INCREDIBLY LENGTHY CATCHUP POST INCOMING! PREPARE YOURSELF!
PAGE ONE/TWO
For the record, I originally thought "Oh! Let's imprint everyone!". But, I have to assume two things when I have that idea:
1) The Mod definitely considered that scenario and probably prepared for it.
2) The town would essentially be eight one-shot abilities, while scum would accumulate abilities over time. Therefore, scum would have a buffet of abilities to choose from, and town would only have what we get imprinted with on that night.
Overall, I think it's a bad idea. I think e_k finally came around as well before the end of page one. Limerickx's idea of imprinting one person then waiting for the night actions to proc is flawed. This assumes that killing roles can ONLY be given to scum. What if there's a town vig? What if scum no-kills? Too many holes in this logic.
By the way, how did nobody else point this out? Scum no-killing or town vigs completely destroy the point of this plan. Yes, we could keep tabs on who has been imprinted and who hasn't, but we have to assume scum have at least some modicum of intelligence and won't fall for such a simple trap.
I agree that scum have the upper hand here D1. Four people in the informed minority can do some SERIOUS damage versus eight people who are completely in the dark other than the fact that they know they're town. We have a 1/3 chance of giving a power role to scum if we use the dice-roll, however. It is possible to somewhat increase our odds of giving it to town if we vote to imprint intelligently.
PAGE THREE/FOUR
Elvis saying 8-4 is unwinnable in regular mafia seems really, really incorrect.
Oh shit.Vote: DeathNotefor his post 52. He basically makes it seem like we have to proceed with powers, or without. I don't like the wording of this at all.
Buttonmen vs. VMD is quite telling. Buttonmen's suggestion is a null tell: while, yes, it would probably end in a town win, it'd take a hundred days, and he had to know nobody would ACTUALLY go for that suggestion. VMD voting Buttonmen, however, seems like a town tell.Imprint: VMDandImprint: Buttonmen. I think we can gain valuable information from the two of them being power roles. The way I see it, they can't both be scum, so in my mind I'm imprinting one guaranteed (imo) townie, possibly two.
Also,
This is exactly why my vote is on DN.Pug89 wrote:It seems like he is trying to force the town to choose either empowering everyone or no one and ignores the third option of imprinting only a few people (which is what Elvis actually suggested).
Furthermore, Buttonmen suggesting that we cannot form a connection between scum if they don't vote together is rather... mind-boggling.
Plum's giant catchup post is reading eerily like mine, haha. Also:
Thank God someone finally pointed this out.Plum wrote:Buttonman why are you assuming that a Town-imprintee is going to get 1-shot Cop four times, or even at all?
PAGE FIVE/SIX
YES!
@Mod: THANK YOU FOR STOPPING THE POINTLESS SUGGESTIONS ON ENDLESS NO LYNCHES. I WAS ABOUT TO REPLACE OUT JUST READING THAT.
Phew. Okay. Messiah's 117 lines up with what I was thinking, so I'm hesitantly giving him a slight lean towards town. Buttonmen has a good point in 125: SC imprinted himself and e_k, then e_k imprinted herself and SC.FoS: elvis_knits, SC.
This stuff about people being semi-cleared because they "didn't understand the setup" is complete bullshit. I read the rules, but even I glazed over the fact that scum lacked a night kill. I read the sample PMs, and I still didn't get it. It wasn't until the Mod clarified that I finally realized it. It's a null-tell. Trying to push it as a town-tell is a slight-scum-tell, though.
PAGE SEVEN/EIGHT
I like VMD's idea that elvis is scum and trying to buddy/use SC. I don't understand why SC is so opposed to the idea.
Limerickx is opposed to lynching today... I don't understand why. We have a free random lynch to use WITHOUT the guarantee of another townie dying during the night.
Imprint: Reckoner. I'm the only person I know isn't a rogue at this point, though I have hunches (VMD).
I'm not a fan of e_k telling us she sucks at being scum and then trying to give us her scum meta in 182. I am highly suspicious of someone who tries to say they suck at playing scum. It's like when I used to go on beach trips with my grandma as a kid, and she'd say she sucked/didn't know how to play certain board games/card games, then would school us all. I KNOW YOUR TRICKS, GRAND-- I MEAN, ELVIS!
Oh, great. Here's Starbuck's catchup post. *sigh* Nothing to really comment on there.
SC calling elvis town? What the hell has she done that really warrants a town read, especially this early on? I agree with the Deathnote scum read, but I'm not sure I'd so willingly place Starbuck into scum territory. Hmph.
In fact, by the end of page eight, I'd be willing to upgrade Starbuck to leaning-town.
PAGE NINE/TEN
I don't like the SC/elvis buddying. It's like they have a preformed alliance from previous games, and neither of them are actually considering that the other one could be scum.
Messiah's vote on SC is intriguing, as the top of page nine is when I started to see SC in a scummy light instead of just a victim of e_k's scumminess. His omgus-inspired placing of Messiah into the scum column is lol-worthy. He has a point that Starbuck refused to take a stand on DeathNote... but I don't see it as a flat-out scumtell.
I don't believe elvis and SC are scumbuddies, but I believe one of them is.
Messiah's 236 is a strong post: SC says Starbuck is "obsessed with" and "defending" DN, but someone could just as easily say that he is doing the same with elvis (and vice versa). If it's a scumtell for Starbuck, then it's a scumtell for either elvis or SC. Just because you openly defend someone you read as town (which, way to give NO reasoning behind your unbelievably strong town-read on elvis, SC) doesn't mean that it's more acceptable just because someone thinks the attacks on another null-read are bullshit.
PAGE ELEVEN/TWELVE/THIRTEEN
SC's sudden change of heart to not wanting any/very few imprints seemingly disagrees with the fact that he STILL has his first two imprints of the game out there.
And... ugh, my predecessor failed. Holy shit, bad play, bad posts, apathy. I just remembered... he said nothing of any interest on pages 1-5. I've noticed that Starbuck gets a lot of scum attention in practically every single game I play with her... and the one game I actively remember he being scum in, I think I saw it coming. Therefore, I'm not willing to accept the Starbuck hate simply because I've seen it happen too many times before. I honestly don't see anything scummy about what she's done so far.
Ignoring all further posts by lewarcher. Plum's epic post on page twelve made me fall in love with her. Not enough to remove my imprint on VMD, but definitely make me question it.
DeathNote seems to be just rolling over and giving up right now. I don't get it, nor do I understand it. I think it's a null-tell at this point. Probably just tired of defending himself. I think he's an appropriate D1 lynch.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
...that took me two hours to write up, and still it's only that long? BOOOO I WANTED NOVEL LENGTH.
In any case, to summarize my catchup post:
Imprint: VMD, Buttonmen, Reckoner
Vote: DeathNote
FoS: elvis, SC
And now, I give you a convenient, easy-to-read table of how I feel about people at the moment.
[mrow]Scum[col]IGMEOY[col]Neutral[col]Town
DeathNote[col]TheButtonmen[col]farside22[col]Reckoner SerialClergyman[col]elvis_knits[col]Limerickx[col]Messiah ---[col]---[col]Starbuck[col]Vala Mal Doran ---[col]---[col]Pug89[col]Plum green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I could agree on a Plum imprint. But I will not agree on you or elvis, not today.SerialClergyman wrote:Plum, probably. But that's about it. Having said that, I think three is too many. I'd also like some insurance with the imprint - like the plan I outlined above about lynchin DN. What did you think of that?
That being said... I'm actually starting to like the idea of NLing, but imprinting 3 people. That way, 25% of the players have an ability, and I think if we use informed imprinting, then we'll be able to at least hit two, probably three townies with it.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
No, because ISerialClergyman wrote:You wouldn't agree to imprint me knowing I'd only have the chance to use it once if dn is town, even if I was scum?hate"Lynch this person, then lynch me based on their flip!" strategies.
I say we either lynch DN + imprint 2 people, or no lynch + imprint 3.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Because, as I stated, I think by imprinting both VMD and Button, we'll gain valuable information. I think at least one of them is town (VMD), so I think Button being imprinted can give us some information regarding his alignment.farside22 wrote:@Reckoner: Why the voted on DN? Why the IGMEOY to TheButtonmen who you did imprint?green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
No. I wouldn't say my read on you is indicative of my read on elvis_knits at this point. The opposite also does not apply.
The same goes for DN/Starbuck.
I don't like to/don't think it's very proper to make scum connections on D1. Sure, it's interesting with four scum in this game, but the fact still remains that a four person scumteam can coordinate QUITE WELL against an eight person town, and there's no way to really start drawing conclusions until we get a role-flip.
This is why I like the no lynch + 3 imprints idea. That way, even if one if the imprints is insane cop or something, we'll be able to figure it out with those few mislynches (depending on mafia kills, should they ever get a killing role).
That being said, I just have a feeling that DeathNote is scum, which is why I wouldn't mind lynching him today. But I'd still prefer no lynch + 3 imprints.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I'm defending Starbuck for meta reasons, which I already stated. Also, I wouldn't say I'm necessarily "defending" her so much as I am saying I don't find her necessarily scum. See: her being listed as NEUTRAL and not TOWN in my scum chart.
And I'm imprinting VMD because she seemed the most townie to me in my re-read. By about page four I think it was, I was thinking to myself "Well, there's at least one obvtown". That read may weaken over time, but for now, it's as solid of a town read I'm going to get on D1.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Ah okay, just making sure I was going retarded or something. That's what I thought.
ATTN: SC AND ELVIS -
NOBODY IS BUYING THE WHOLE CONFIRMING EACH OTHER BULLSHIT. PLEASE STOP PUSHING IT. IT IS GETTING US NOWHERE. GOOD DAY.
By the way, one of them has to be scum because I don't know of a townie who would push so hard for the clear on another townie unless they were 100% sure. I.E., if one of them was scum, and knew the other wasn't on their scum-team.
Bottom line, nobody should be pushing that hard based on twisted logic.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
IMPRINTS, PLEASE. I think we should decide that before we lynch DN.
Also,
I though I explained that already. Anyway, I guess I didn't... but it was during her back and forth with him. To be completely honest, I'm too drained from exams to go back and doe_k wrote:On VMD: why do you see her vote on buttonmen as a town tell?anotherre-read, so you'll just have to accept the fact that I got a gut town read from her posts, and it has not been retracted yet. Though, her recent down-spike in activity is discouraging.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
@SC: Why did you wait until the end of the wagon to hammer DN?
Vote: SerialClergyman
His ploy was that if he was town, then so was elvis... and if DeathNote was scum, so was Starbuck. IMO, it was a bus. He knew DeathNote would flip scum, therefore incriminating Starbuck and seemingly clearing both himself and elvis.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Pretty much for this right here:
I feel like she might be overreaching, but I think it comes from a townie perspective.Something occurred to me about deathnote. He was scum who pushed a plan giving all the scum power roles. IMO opinion that increases the chance scum knew they wouldn't have a NK unless they got an imprint. Because DN was pushing so depserately for imprints. Which increases the chance that SC and me are town, once again.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Farside, at first, didn't come off that scummy to me... but it seems the more she tries to defend herself, the more she digs her own grave. It's like I didn't see anything at first, but ek's attacks on her are actually showing her in a different light. It's nothing drastic, not yet at least, but she seems to be failing to defend herself properly.
Also, in case it wasn't known, I'm a yes, and I'd prefer to imprint 2-3 people.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I don't think I ever said Pug was CERTAIN to get an imprint. I suggested we imprint Pug, then reluctantly agreed that we should imprint Buttonmen. Not once did I say it was guaranteed.
Furthermore, I think Messiah's imprint would give us a definite read on him, and right now he's one of those "town-but-I-have-an-unexplainable-scum-tingle" people. I think he's town, but at the same time, something is nagging at me that he might be scum (ie, points other people have brought to light which changed my mind).green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Best I can tell is that I thought my "scheme" reasoning was a bit too much of a stretch, and Starbuck seemed more reasonable/logical.farside22 wrote:
First you say it's based on DN flip. Then it's I don't know who to lynch between SC and SB.xRECKONERx wrote:Yeah, I couldn't decide if Starbuck was town or not. Then, when I looked at things in light of the flip, I was like, "Whoa. The passive defending thing looks a lot scummier now." I don't see what's wrong with that.
Then you out and out say you think it's a scheme by SC but once the SB wagon goes you conviently go back with little to nothing said.
It's called wagoning for little to no reason.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Sorry guys - 21st birthday and all, the festivities are still going on. Anyway, I feel completely idiotic becauseI still don't know who the fuck is scum. I know Limerickx gives me town vibes, so does CrashTextDummie, they both seem like they're trying to do genuine scumhunting, even if I hate wal o' text posts.
Scummiest would have to go to SC at this point, mostly still because of his whole gambit with DN then Starbuck. I feel like DN was a sinking ship, and SC is a good enough player to throw him under the bus for the sake of making himself look better. Farside pushing a fairly flimsy case on me isn't making her look any better, but I think I'd still rather lynch SC.
KoC & Buttonmen both fall into the neutral range, as I keep flipping back and forth on them. Pug89 is in my "neutral-leaning-town" column... and elvis is in the WTF!? column.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009