Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[lewarcher82]

naturally we will always kno who got a special power on a night, so there will be no real "claiming", but rather a "power declaration" LoL

sounds fun, I will post more tonite

[lewarcher82]

Guys I am still here, but I am afraid that at 10 pm after finishing the layout of my phd thesis 7 pages are too much to read... hope I'll catch up tomorrow.

[lewarcher82]

Ok, I finally read the whole thread.

Pages 1-5: Nothing! Setup-related paranoia. My comment is: if we wanna play, let us trust the Mod. Imprinting rules surely make this game enough balanced.

on Buttonman: he is a smart player, as far as I see. I get town vibes from him. Still, I agree that looking for Nash equilibria or bugs in the setup is pointless, since there is a whole set of rules we do not now.

Pages 6-8: interesting stuff happens. I find Starbuck's comments interesting, she seems to be truly scum-hunting. And I find SC's posts a little excessive in front of the not so heavy accusations he has to face.

My personal opinion is that, given the huge amount of unknown factors, we need to scum-hunt, find someone scummy to lynch, find someone "towny" to imprint.

Therefore:

Vote: SerialClergyman

;

Imprint: Starbuck

;

Imprint: Buttonman

;

Imprint: Lewarcher82

(it is just hypocritical not to imprint myself).

[lewarcher82]

sorry people, but I cannot post more than this, and it will never be style to spam the thread with huge quoting-quoting-posts. I hate them, who already knows me can confirm it.

I posted yesterday, I post today, and wll post tomorrow: that's it. I understand that in such a graphomaniac (seriously guy let's limite the noise) game it is easy for me to be qualified as lurker. Whatever.

I spent a hell of a lot of time reading the four huge pages that have been written in the last 15 hours or so, to discover....

.... almost nothing. Vala, Vala, why exactly are people trusting you? I cannot but notice that my "lurking" didn't bother you until I posted and cast my vote. What is wrong about my vote? Why don't you like it, lady?

Messiah: what should I comment? Ask me, and I will answer, I beg you please. If you do not answer, I just write what I think is worth writing.

Take it the way you want, I don't know why Star thinks I am towny (but it is apretty unique evemt LoL: Star, sorry for being an asshole last game, it was the setup that made me nervous), but I am not bothered by her imprint, since I have to believe that the "exchange the favour" part must have been a joke.

Now I gotta buy Christmas presents, so I will "lurk" for at least 6 hours.

[lewarcher82]

True. Pages 1 to 5 mean nothing to me. No one knows what imprinting will do. Deathnote "plan" had no chance to be applied, and it being pro-town on anti-town under a theory-of-games perspective depends on data we do not own. I do not necessarily see scumminess there.

And Pug, when I asked Vala why I my lurking didn't bother her before my vote (which is not my first post), I actually expected her, not you, to answer. Whatever. Nobody normally forgets about lurkers. Who thinks lurkers are scummy necessarily keeps an eye on lurkers.

This is the first game I play with Vala, so I do not know her. I just do not trust players who try to take the lead on day one, and my impression is that this is what she is doing. Also I do not find scum / town lists useful. I find them confusing.

DN, I am not answering your question right now cuz I do not want to interfere on what Buttonman is asking you. I will do it later.

No reason to change my votes/imprints so far.

[lewarcher82]

Ok. Sunday is here, parents visiting left, DN explained what are the matters I must have an opinion about and Vala addressed a post to me. This is gonna take long. I am bolding the points where I ask explanations or questions.

I have opened explaining that there was nothing important going on in the first 5 pages. This remains true, but I will now articulate.
There were proposals for plans. Lim suggested to roll a dice, DN imprinted everyone. Reactions were manifold. Someone (Vala) voted the potential "gamekiller" (Buttonman). The game kept moving on a meta-rail. In such a situation, in my 3 year experience in different mafia-platforms, there is no way to know what alignment the potential "gamekiller" are, and the ones who react voting them are either trying to save the game or they are scum and they try casting a bad light on town gamekillers.
How voting Buttonman was a way to hunt scum is sumthin I dun get, so

Vala may want to explain me

.

On a more general level, my commentary on all the plans that have been proposed is that they are pointless. We have to combine scumhunting with management of imprints, and trust the mod about this game being balanced.

So DN's plan is no good, but the comment by

pug

in post #89 is circular. I does not discuss the features of the three options, but he just sez that proposing to eliminate one of them (imprinting only some players) is scummy. I think this is just a logic fail, but since you want me to comment the first 5 pages,

please explain why

.

Messiah

, who in post 82 is enthusiastic about this reading,

is invited to explain

why she agrees with pug on a point that I do not see.

Elvis's post 85: clever point, but not useful. The fog surrounding imprinted roles is the very philosophy of this game. Isn't this perhaps nonconstructive criticism?

Button's post 99. If he is scum, he is a damn good one, because this is the smartest pro-town content posted in this game up to page 4.

SC 107: Button was commenting the mod's foolish rule, as you were also doing a couple of post before.

How come you can and he cannot

?

Elvis 114: no1 positively suggested to break the game.

Elvis 21-116: question looks interesting. But question dies in post 119.

Messiah 117: you were supporting different plans earlier.

Why did you change your mind more than once

?

Elvis 123-124: WIFOM on SC's account. Weird.
Elvis 126: glorious WIFOM.
Elvis 129: declared WIFOM out of frustration.

Vala 130: you got your answers pretty soon, huh? So much with scum-hunt...

DN 149: epic step-back from plans. But after all I can understand his attitude. His plan has been attacked (pug, really, explain) for 3 pages now.

Page 7: main event to me is pug starting to investigate SC.

Buttonman

162: I missed this. This actually bothers me a little. There is a contradiction with post 99, where u illustrated the advantages of imprinted PR's.

Please explain

.

Vala 175: well, all aside, I sympathize with Vala and join her "Buh?"

Limerikx 176: platitude, but true. I imprinted myself too. Why wouldn't I? Course I believe that I am town LoL

Vala 179: I totally disagree on the point that a player who votes selfimprint is scummy. Your elaboration is empty. Everyone here would at least act as town, so it is just natural imprinting one-selves.

Counterargument, if u can, please.

Starbuck 183: As I said before, I agree with all that she says here. You can find internal confirmation of this in the whole content of the present post.

Starbuck 189: no need for such a post. You gotta take responsibility for yo posts.

SC starts posting lists. I do not like it. Effort to look opened and true towards daytime community is redundant, and the real result is confusion.

Limerikx 190: acceptable and correct argumentation.

Elvis-Starbuck 198-199: Elvis seems clumsy as she tries to answer Starbuck's FoS on her. Last two lines lack of any good argument and try to invoke self-conscious town alignment. Noise, mainly.

Starnuck 201: /facepalm. If u imprint me, at least explain why. I expected to be called a lurker and I found myself imprinted.

Starbuck 205: QFT. QFT. QFT. (and applause)

Elvis 207: she is right, DN is not doing any good right now.

SC 210: totally disagree. And WIFOM.

Messiah 214: good post on SC 210. I agree.

Elvis 231: did you? You do, than I will post my comments about SC's options list.

--------

In conclusion:

FoS: SC, Elvis, Vala

in decreasing order.

[lewarcher82]

1) problem is that there is too much fantasy to be constructive. We have no idea what imprintings really are. I prefer to stick to what we know.

2) no, sorry, my bad. I mean that it is WIFOM to assume it, it is WIFOM to ask us assume it as well. I call WIFOM all the statements that can be expressed starting with "if I were scum I would have done $_TownyAction/ I wouldn't have done $_ScummyAction".

3) this I call clumsy:

I'm not going to stop trying to convince people to help me do what I think is best. And perhaps I am slightly obnoxious at times. But it's not my way or the highway. I think we have to agree on something, even if it's not what I want. And that's what I encouraged us all to do earlier today.

also:

He completely ignored my point, which would make giving everyone a power very dangerous and much more beneficial to scum. So it's not just that he suggested something anti-town, but he suggested something anti-town AFTER I specifically pointed out that it could be anti-town.

so DN would be scummy & stupid, since in your reconstruction he practically claimed scum, right?

4) I want your comment because many things can be deduced from how and how much you agree with SC points.

------

I did misunderstand Messiah's posts, sorry, english is not my 1st language.

[lewarcher82]

For what regards the answer to your question, elvis, I am not sure if you are both scum (see below): it is true that sc opening the very game with the imprint would have been crazy. But he surely had an answer ready, he could have said that he was just random imprinting as he waited for the game to take-off... It's a weapon that can work both ways.

Anyway, I get scumvibes from SC, I find his posts too aggressive towards Starbuck, and I think that his attempt to remind everyone of DN's scumminess without even trying to interact directly with DN is also pretty scummy.

I will make it clear: I think that he is scum, and this is more than a FoS, this is in fact my vote. The fact that I FoS elvis does not mean that I would vote her right now (she is attacking me and therefore we interact a lot). I can accept a scenario with SC as scum and elvis as town, where the apparent (but possible) buddying interaction is a mere coincidence.

----

fine, clumsy is not the right word. Sorry (

ESL!!!

). What I meant is that if the best argumentation is "How can I do different than this, since I know I am town?", it's like there's no argumentation at all.

[lewarcher82]

all right peeps, I have tried to catch up and post content but it appears I really played poorly and missed some points.

For example SC's question to mod about stacking powers; this is actually stronger an argument against the case on him than the simple WIFOM about him and elvis.

Anyway, there is no way I can keep playing this game. To make a paraphrase of Vala's post, I do not have 4 hours a day to read all this content. Therefore I apologize and

ask to be replaced

.