Mini 856 - Star Control: Zeta Sextantis - Over

[Papa Zito]

[Papa Zito]

OMG I get to play with Plum! Yay!

[Papa Zito]

I've read a couple games that you were in.

vote: Locke

Wrong universe.

[Papa Zito]

GOES, GOES: KMD

(that means "daykill" for those of you non-SC freaks)

I'm also going to need a replacement as of right now.

OMG Orz

OMG replace?

@KMD: I was excited that Plum replaced in.

[Papa Zito]

... I put it in my next post.

Why KMD, is random voting in your second post a scumtell?

[Papa Zito]

On a random vote? Really?

[Papa Zito]

No, your attack just sucks.

[Papa Zito]

Oh wow, Zito, Plum, sigma scumteam.

unvote; vote: Papa Zito

Of course. Scum are always this obvious in thread. That's why mafia is such an easy game.

[Papa Zito]

lolwagon

So just to recap, the case on me is:

1. Random voted in the second post
2. Sarcasm

Wow congrats guys.

[Papa Zito]

unvote: Locke Lamora

We're well out of RVS.

KMD, how do you feel about the bandwagon you've started and the players on it?

[Papa Zito]

BTW, Porkens, you need to tell me where you got that avatar.

[Papa Zito]

Zito, tell me what you, Plum, and Sigma did that was "obvious" and why scum wouldn't do it.

I've never seen a scum team actively defend each other in thread.

Zito, Porkens is probably town and Excedrin is probably town too. Who do you find scummy?

I'm not terribly fond of either one. If sarcasm = scum then game over, the whole site just lost.

[Papa Zito]

Again, who do you think is scum?

Again, one of Porkens or Excedrin is very likely scum due to opportunistic voting.

[Papa Zito]

Opportunistic votes on a townie bandwagon are a much better tell than "sarcasm". So yes.

A few more pages and I'll probably ferret someone else out.

[Papa Zito]

I'm trying to demostrate what a real scumtell looks like, because it seems people have forgotten.

There's nothing scummy about sarcasm; that whole argument is stupid.

[Papa Zito]

Thanks rosso.

@Mod: I will be V/LA Sep 30 - Oct 2 due to a business trip

[Papa Zito]

-Are there any races that are specifically aligned with the Alliance/Hierarchy/????

Hmm. Some of this will depend on the year.

@Mod: What year is it?

Guaranteed Alliance

Arilou - Human allies
Chenjesu - Alliance leaders; slave shielded after war
Chmrr - Genetic fusion of Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm
Earthling - Joined Alliance late; slave shielded after war; heroes of SC2
Mmrnmhrm - Allied with Chenjesu; slave shielded after war
Shofixti - Uplifted by Yehat, didn't survive war
Syreen - Alliance member; slave shielded after war

Guaranteed Hierarchy

Androsynth - Joined Hierarchy as battle thralls as revenge against humans; were wiped out by Orz after war
Ilwrath - Original Hierarchy member
Kzer-Za - leaders of the Hierarchy
Mycon - Original Hierarchy member; very erratic though
Vux - Original Hierarchy member

Guaranteed 3rd Parties

Druuge - Space pirate coporating things (unfriendly)
Melnorme - Merchant race (friendly)
Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah - Obv serial killer role if they exist here

????

Orz - They start as a neutral party then join the Earthlings, so depends on the year. They're unpredictable though.
Pkunk - Allies with Earthlings post-war. If they're here they're very likely town.
Supox - Join Earthlings after the war. Same as Pkunk.
Thraddash - Conquered early in SC2 and joined as battle thralls. Likely scum if present.
Umgah - Technically Hierarchy but they're pretty uncontrollable so could be 3rd party
Utwig - See Pkunk
Yehat - Depends on the year. Original backbone race of the Alliance but they join the Hierarchy after the war
Zoq-Fot-Pik - See Pkunk.


I mention "the war" - Star Control I was a strategy game between the Alliance and the Hierarchy. In Star Control II the Hierarchy has won the war and you play a human who is leading an uprising against the Hierarchy. If our year is during the war then a lot of the ???? races will be neutrals; if after then they'll be as marked.


Not including the Star Control III races here (Hegemonic Crux, etc) because I don't think the game is big enough for 2 scum groups. If the year comes back later than I think it will I'll revise this to include them.

BTW, I looked it up and Zeta Sextantis has one of the Rainbow Worlds.

[Papa Zito]

More sarcasm? Please elaborate on how my 3rd vote or Porkens' 2nd vote was opportunistic. I'm fairly sure that there was zero chance of your actual lynch based only on Kmd4390's "case." If my vote was opportunistic, then were the people who didn't hop on your wagon overly cautious?

Yes, more sarcasm. How did my meta research turn out, BTW? Because I'm going to assume that, if you're going to vote someone because of the way they're posting, then you've done the research to back that up amirite?

I wouldn't call them overly cautious. I'd call them observant enough to avoid a crap wagon.

[Papa Zito]

gogogo triple post

I forgot to put the Spathi up in the ???? category - They switch sides during SCII, so again it'll depend on the year. If early, they're Hierarchy, if late, they're Alliance.

[Papa Zito]

This game is set during the events of Star Control II. Having a specific year would be a nice thing and I'm decidedly against nice things.

Mentioning SC III, hereby known as the game that should not be mentioned, will raise my ire.

Lawl. It wasn't

that

bad.

If during SC II then we can safely put the Thraddash as Hierarchy. Yehat is still a tossup since they switch sides again during the game back to Alliance. Dunno about the others.

[Papa Zito]

Wowsers. I bow down to your SC2 knowledge.

I seriously need to play that game again.

It's one of my all-time favorites. You kids can keep your damn Halo.

I can provide a quick synopsis of SC history if anyone cares.

Prolly last post until Saturday unless I get really lucky while I'm gone.

[Papa Zito]

I'm not used to being the center of attention so much.

I didn't want to place a vote in this game because I'd be forced to defend it, which I couldn't do since I was V/LA. Besides, I haven't decided which of the two was more likely scum.

My behavior is different here than in Boost because I wasn't attacked right off the bat for retarded reasons there.

what else...

I'm sure I missed stuff directed to me in all this mess. Restate plz.

[Papa Zito]

Hi Papa Zito, could you take a look at #163 and comment about Mini 817, does being the center of attention stop you from scumhunting?

Being on the defensive makes it harder for me to be on the offensive, so, yeah.

Also, Dry-fit was in that game with you, what do you think about the cases against him in this game by sigma (#162), Kast (#168) and Rising (#65 maybe ignore this one since he admits it was a pressure vote in #152 and #166)?

I didn't find 162 inspirational. Saying he's "only" done 3 major things is a huge stretch when you consider we've only gone 8 pages.

Kast's 168 reads less like case and more like pressure, which I have no issue with.

65 is fine, it's early and that's better reasoning than most early votes.

[Papa Zito]

Ok, too many words about nothing.
Here's a real thing to talk about:

I'm a town guy stuck in a mafia guy ship. I'm gunna jettison and blow it up tonight.

unvote

Vote: Kast

Oh this is fun.

Vote: Kast

Questions:

1. How did you manage to get stuck on someone else's ship without a Night 0?
2. What happened to your ship?
3. What kind of ship are you on?
4. Can you control the ship?
5. Is the Mafia guy with you?
6. How are you going to blow up the ship?
7. Why Kast then?

Good answers here and my vote will stay on your shiny new bandwagon.

[Papa Zito]

Zito, why Kast?

Wat. I already explained this. You referenced it in your Get Out The Vote post.

[Papa Zito]

I see nothing aside from the "shiny new bandwagon" comment. 4 days from deadline and you want a shiny new bandwagon with no further reasoning? Either there's more to it or it's scummy as hell.

You're trying really hard to force things to fit your preconceptions. Bad play if you're townie.

Obviously Porkens has some sort of outside-game-thread info. My questions are meant to verify that info. If it's good then my vote stays. This is so easy a caveman could do it; what's your problem here?

[Papa Zito]

Feh.

unvote

And here you got me all excited.

[Papa Zito]

What did you expect?

I was expecting something like:

"Hey dudes, turns out I'm on an Ur-Quan Dreadnought! I kicked Kast out of it before the game started, so like we should totally lynch him! Wyld Stallyons!!"

So yeah I'm disappointed.

[Papa Zito]

Quit

role

ship fishing.

I don't care which ship it is, as long as it's Hierarchy. You know, to help verify what you're saying.

[Papa Zito]

It's in one of you "non-guaranteed alliance" lists.

Erm. Then why would you declare it a scum ship?

Actually, let me broaden this a bit - what was the point of claiming this information?

Again, I'm not going to say which. Pretend it is an ur-quan dreadnaught and one of the scum have a pre-self-destruct ship swap ability, you like me to say for sure which ship I'm in now?

You.... wat?? Are you just making stuff up now?

[Papa Zito]

lol cross-post

Being able to move a race from "dunno" to "scum" would be muy bueno, you know.

[Papa Zito]

Actually, let me broaden this a bit - what was the point of claiming this information?

Still want this.

Porkens implied that the scum might use the info to their benefit and suggested a scenario with the ramifications of whatever circumstances make him want to keep his mouth shut on that count.

Do you find his scenario at all credible?

[Papa Zito]

I guess I'm not making my point clear. The whole ability to leave a ship/maybe get pushed off the ship indicates to me that someone out there may be able to hijack, punch off, or otherwise move people around ships.

Since the ship abilities are racial (this one's is, anyway), this race would want to take this ship. So, I don't want to say who it would be useful to.

I'm assuming that blown-up ships will show in the day start, or that I'll be alive to tell y'all tomorrow which one it was.

I think that's more valuable than moving one race in certainty from one list to the other, especially since (modmeta) Spyr certainly gave safe-claims.

I brought this up so people would have something concrete to talk about, and because I thought it would be best, strategically, for the town. The only downside I see is the aforementioned info to the scum.

Okay, all this stuff makes sense.

Spyrex gives safeclaims? That's good to know.

I guess we'll see what blows up tomorrow then.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
Why did you assume that Porkens has role info suggesting my affiliation? What would you normally think if a player waits until right before deadline then suddenly tells people that he has role information indicating another player is scum; a player who he has not mentioned any suspicion of previously and actually completely ignored the entire game?

He voted you in the same post as all the ship-talk, so I thought they were related.

Why would he wait? To see if the wagon would develop naturally without outing himself I suppose. I dunno, I'm not in his head.

...I...oh. My bad, I retract that modifom.

Dammit Porkens. lulz

@Mod: Votecount plz

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
-[1]I am willing to lynch you to prevent a no lynch.
-[2]You are the vote leader and, atm, the most viable lynch. If you are going to defend yourself and/or claim, consider doing it sooner than later.

1. K.
2. Defend myself from what, Kast?

So here's what I know. The current wagon is on a townie so it's like scum-driven. It's also built on a meta argument, which is crap. If you want to see a town example of me playing like this, see Day 1 of /invitational 2. Also I'm pretty pissed I've allowed Kmd's antics to throw me off this much, especially when I love the theme so much.

I'm mulling whether to claim or not. Won't for the moment. Claiming the ship is right out, don't even bother asking.

Brb, isos.

[Papa Zito]

Rosso Carne - Has absolutely tunneled on Kast for no apparent reason. He keeps soliciting votes but doesn't give any reasons to make people want to join his wagon. I'm not sure what to make of him.
Porkens - Kinda irritated that he didn't tell me where to find animated SC2 avatars. Jumped on my wagon because I got defended against a crap case. Then he didn't do anything until he announced that he's on a scum ship. He claims to have said this to draw reactions but there's a distinct lack of analysis now that he's gotten his reactions. Thinking this could a scum gambit.
Papa Zito - Irritated townie.
Kmd4390 - Started this whole mess and has now jumped back when his Rising attempt went nowhere.
Plum - Prob townie.
sigma - I agree with his scumhunting and his targets. Townish
KeelieRavenWolf - Waiting on the promised post tonight. Hasn't done much of anything.
Excedrin - Can't decide on him. I didn't like the way he jumped on me. I don't like that his vote is still on me but he's posting like it's not. I don't like that I'm 3rd on his list and I'm still his vote. ...
Rising - I have reasons to believe he's town which I will not go into.
Kast - Prob townie.
Locke Lamora - Correctly had my stance throughout the game, and now he's allowed himself to be "convinced" to vote me. Coasted along otherwise. Likely scum.
Dry-fit - I'm confused why his vote is on sigma and not Plum. If she's committed two scumtells then you'd think a vote there would make sense. You'd also think he would explain the second and try to get votes on her. Not sure what to make of him.

Da List

Prob Townie

Rising
Kast
Plum

TOwnish

sigma

Neutral

KeelieRavenWolf
Rosso Carne
Excedrin
Dry-Fit

Scummy

Porkens
Kmd4390

Prob Scum

Locke Lamora

vote: Locke Lamora

(for posterity?)

[Papa Zito]

Papa Zito, did you miss my post #237 where I unvoted and voted for Kast or did I screw something up so that my vote somehow doesn't count?

Woops, I sure did. That's what I get for relying on votecounts. I'm still not sure what to think of you but that's better.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
Thanks for your insights.

I feel that a vote for Locke Lamora is a wasted vote this close to deadline and with a sword over your head. Townies have to compromise on vote candidates when a strict majority is required.

I suggest Dry-Fit.
-Directly misrepresented Sigma on something that was pretty clear.
-After being called on it, he lurked until I posted some pressure on Sigma. He then immediately popped up and echoed my pressure as his new reason for voting. Since then has lurked again except when called out.

I'd like to give Locke a chance. I'll switch if I have to but I'd rather vote one of the three at the bottom.

[Papa Zito]

Wow. Porkens really, really needs to die. Kast writes a lot but to dismiss what he's saying as tl;dr is terrible.

That said, I'd like Locke to die first.

Also I'm Commander Decker, human. I doubt this will change anyone's mind tho.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-

Suggestion:

vote for Dry-Fit rather than leaving yourself as the vote leader.

Unfortunately, this is true.

I'm not happy with this at all. But this is also my fault so I shouldn't complain.

unvote: Locke Lamora
vote: Dry-Fit

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
-Your recent posts have answered my questions already. For completeness:
-You would prefer a lynch of Locke Lamora over all others.
-You prefer lynching Porkens or KMD next and equally to each other.
-You prefer a lynch of KRW, RC, Ex, or DF next and equally to each other.
-You prefer a lynch of Sigma after that.
-You prefer a lynch of the rest after that rather than a no lynch.

Kast, I meant to address this earlier and it completely slipped my mind.

My list was in order, so I find the players at the bottom of the neutral list slightly scummier than those at the top.

[Papa Zito]

So you admit that you didn't read the last few pages, which in turn means you missed all the discussion those pages contained plus you don't know what the current voting situation is, and you vote me anyway. That's fantastic, really.

[Papa Zito]

...

*holds escape key*

[Papa Zito]

unvote: Dry-Fit
vote: KeelieRavenWolf

Someone let me off this rollercoaster.

[Papa Zito]

KeelieRavenWolf wagon sucks because she's almost certainly town.

How can you possibly get an 'Almost Certain Town' read on someone who's posted 5 times?

This. Especially when most of those posts are apologies and excuses.

I'm much more comfortable with a Jelly lynch than a Dry-Fit lynch. Or a me lynch, obv.

Kmd, your tunneling isn't making you look any better. I'm having a hard time believing that your reads haven't changed since Page 2.

Papa Zito is mashing his ESC key and hoping he has enough fuel

[Papa Zito]

Yeah, my bad.
I hadn't realized that I hadn't actually hit the "submit" button until it was too late for me to go back and read what you guys had posted in my absence.

Wait, what? So you came back to the screen, realized you hadn't hit submit for, what days? and just decided to click it anyway without checking for new posts? For all you knew an entirely new wagon could have formed, or I could have been at L-1. This didn't register in your mind?

I wouldn't suggest lynching town, but it's up to you. I'll let you know now, I'm Mmrnmhrm by race. I guess that's good, with no background of the game, it looks like a green jumble of letters to me.

This is

extremely

unlikely. These events occur during SC2. The Mmrnmhrm were slaveshielded with the Chenjesu before SC2 started, and the only time they escape is after they've fused with the Chenjesu to form the Chmmr.

[Papa Zito]

KEELIE: Your claim lacks a name and flavor bit. Please rectify that situation. Zito, if couldn't hurt to add flavor to your claim. Evaluation here is twitchy going.

There isn't a lot. I was kicked from the Alliance for being reckless and insubordinate. Now I'm trying to get back in their good graces by helping defeat the Hierarchy here.

[Papa Zito]

Mmrnmhrm - Allied with Chenjesu; slave shielded after war

This combined with a nice, accurate-looking reference page I found for SCII would imply that first of all, yes, Mmrnmhrm should be Town and that Mmrnmhrm is not actually an unlikely claim. The page lists among its articles an article on Mmrnmhrm ship.

I need Porkens/someone else more familiar with SCII than I to help confirm this (or knock it down as the case may be).

They are definitely Alliance, yes. But I gave a reason why they shouldn't be here.

SC2 has two modes. One is the regular story mode where the events I've talked about take place. You never meet the Mmrnmhrm in this mode, they have no dialogue or race encounter animation. The other mode is Super Melee where you can just fight ship vs. ship. (This mode is fun because you get to use any ship you want) The Mmrnmhrm ship (and the Chenjesu one) is playable here.

[Papa Zito]

KEELIE: Your claim lacks a name and flavor bit. Please rectify that situation. Zito, if couldn't hurt to add flavor to your claim. Evaluation here is twitchy going.

There isn't a lot. I was kicked from the Alliance for being reckless and insubordinate. Now I'm trying to get back in their good graces by helping defeat the Hierarchy here.

Why am I less than reassured by this?

Think Captain Kirk.

[Papa Zito]

Jelly, please answer these questions:

1. Does your flavor state why you left the Chmmr merging process, thus slowing it down?
2. Does your flavor explain how you left the partially merged Chmmr state as an intact Mmrnmhrm?
3. Does your flavor indicate why you would be sent into a highly dangerous situation when the Mmrnmhrm were already decimated by the war and unable to reproduce due to the loss of the Mother Ark?
4. Does anything in your PM say how you were able to escape the impenetrable Ur-Quan slave shield?
5. Why does the flavor you provided (while accurate) apply to the whole race and not to you specifically?

TIA.

[Papa Zito]

As a side note, Rising's absence is really starting to concern me.

[Papa Zito]

Possible that I was a forgotten Mmrnmhrm? One that was merely overlooked for the merging process, now adrift in the universe as a pitiful, hopeless creature, bent on surviving to the best of my ability even thought there is no hope for my race.

Highly unlikely. The Mmrnmhrm were a mechanical race. They acted as one.

Also, there's plenty of hope for the Mmrnmhrm - the whole point of forming the Chmmr was to create a race capable of defeating the Ur-Quan (which they did).

Your goal sounds very 3rd party survivorish.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito does KRW's claimed name fit with normal mmrnmhrn naming conventions?

Yeah it does. They're random letters with a dash in the middle.

This sounds like you are not Alliance, although you could be third party who can win with the alliance (similar to KRW's claim).

A huge difference between your analogy and your flavor is that Kirk wasn't kicked from the Federation or Starfleet.

Similar to Star Trek IV. They would have been kicked if they'd gone back immediately. Then they saved the world and stayed in. I'm trying to save the world and get back in. It's similar. My wincon is the same as the rest of the town.

I meant to ask this previously, what does slave-shielded mean?

Whenever the Ur-Quan subjugate a race they offer the race a choice - either become Battle Thralls in the Hierarchy or become a fallow species incapable of space travel. A slave shield is an impenetrable energy shield that encases the entire planet. Nothing can get in or out and the shield can't be cracked by conventional means.

Here is a pic from the game. This is the commander of the starbase that you start from. You can see the slave-shielded Earth in the background.

[Papa Zito]

That said, neither of the two claims we've gotten line straight up into "belonging to the Alliance".

Interesting. Is your flavor text "straight up into belonging to the Alliance"?

I, on the other hand, know none of it, and my flavor is only that which is assumed, since I was given no backstory for my character, only an ability, a ship and it's abilities, and a racial name. Other than that; nothing.

Also interesting. My PM has a specific (if sketchy) backstory for my character.

I think you've been caught and are backpedaling.

My PM info was green. This, I assume, stands as town, as Porkens lead me to believe that red is the scum color.
...
It says I win when threats to the Alliance are gone. As such: Town.

This information is freely available in the opening post.

[Papa Zito]

I don't like that so many of his posts are theme-related, though. What relevance to the game do these questions have, honestly?

1. I love the theme. So nyah.
2. The moderator has specified when the events of this game take place in the overall storyline of Star Control. That gives me a great anchor to judge claims by. Jelly's doesn't stand up at all, and those five questions are basically a list of reasons why. I gave her a chance to explain how those things could possibly happen, just in case Spyrex is completely screwing around with the story, but she utterly failed to do so.

I'm not gonna lynch a guy just because the mod isn't a super-mega-nerd fanboy.

Protip: Spyrex's didn't change his avatar for this game.

[Papa Zito]

Zito, Jelly has said she knows nothing about the theme. Knowing her IRL, I'm near positive of this. Where do you think she got the claim from? Your argument goes against it being Mod-provided, so she'd have to either know something about the theme or have time to find it on wikipedia or something.

I don't think it was mod-provided. SpyreX knows better.

She's had plenty of time to find it on Wikipedia or something. I also gave a big list in this thread of the races and their likely alignments. Funny hers turns out to be from the guaranteed alliance list, eh? I have no doubt that she doesn't know anything about the theme, which is why she screwed her claim up. She didn't know what "slave-shielded" means.

But let's talk about the non-flavor aspect for a second, then. Did Jelly claim survivor or not?

[Papa Zito]

It'll be on you're head when innocent blood is spilled.

Never liked this line, but newbies do tend to use it..

Your Keelie case convinces me that she is a newbie. Congratulations.

Newbies tend to have the idea that you have to survive to win.

I take it, Kmd, that you're going to excuse just about anything Keelie does because she's a newbie.

[Papa Zito]

@Mod:

While you're here, please prod Rosso kthx.

[Papa Zito]

Interesting. Is your flavor text "straight up into belonging to the Alliance?

It's straighter than being kicked out of the Alliance, as you claim to be.

*processing*

[Papa Zito]

It seems to me as if your logic does not make sense. [1]You know I havent been at my computer often, yet you seem to think I have wiki-ed the information on SC.
[2]I've told you that I've never played SC before, and you still post as if I should know exactly what you are talking about.
[3]You keep saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for SpyreX to have given me such a small amount of information, yet Kast states there was no backstory to his role either. Why is it just I who have been singled out due to my "inaccurate" and "sparse" information?

1. Doesn't take that long to search a wiki. Also, maybe that's partially why you've been scarce until now?
2. That's the exact opposite of what I said. I said you screwed up your fakeclaim because you don't know the game.
3. No. Kast said his PM has flavor, you state that yours does not.
4. None of this addresses the non-flavor part - your survivor/3rd party wincon.

[Papa Zito]

Lawl. That's fitting. Good deal.

+1 to the sigma question.

[Papa Zito]

Porkens ship was Thraddash, btw.

It's in one of you "non-guaranteed alliance" lists.

I'll go ahead and

vote: sigma

pending an explanation on how the Mycon could possibly be town.

[Papa Zito]

Hi folks.

I was in the same situation as Porkens: town guy in mafia ship. I decided to jettison my ship, same as Porkens.

By the way, my ship was the Thraddash, not the Mycon ship. Doesn't really matter that much.

I also think the scum tried to kill me or porkens and failed because the jettison took place before the kill action.

Oh pshaw.

So a townie in a scum ship is effectively a miller. You're trying to convince me that there are two millers in this game?

Why didn't you bring up being in a scum ship when Porkens did? Why weren't you suspicious of Porkens for being in the same situation that you were in?

This sucks. I thought you were town.

[Papa Zito]

Porkens and Kast had an exchange where they encouraged others not to follow Porkens' example in claiming ship/race similarity. see porkens' iso 20. Actually, porkens claiming that lessened my suspicion of him -- see my iso for that.

Wow, really? You put an in-thread exchange over guaranteed info?

the racial ability of the ship was to make myself untargetable at night.

There's nothing, absolutely nothing, about a Thraddash ship that would grant that ability.

Let's use some logic, people. [1]Why would I bus my scum-partner and [2]then jettison my ship which [3]allows me to be untargetable? What sequence of night actions would result in porkens and me getting a ship destroyed? I don't think you can come up with a plausible scenario where I'm scum.

1. Townie cred. Your scumpartner was weak.
2. I think it was destroyed, not jettisoned.
3. ORLY?

Ships may possess:

R) Racial Abilities -

These abilities are only active if you are the same race as the ship you are on.

They may be A or P and follow the rules for them as detailed above.

Diescumdie.

[Papa Zito]

Thraddash Torches in SCII are the fastest ship in the game when using afterburners.

False.

[Papa Zito]

I'm saying you just admitted to being Thraddash. Thraddash are confirmed scum.

Druuge are faster.

[Papa Zito]

Rosso Carne is on a red ship.

What the hell is going on in this game.

[Papa Zito]

Name is Bezabu. I have the passive ability 'Telepathy', which means that I know the alignment of anyone on a ship with me. I jettisoned so that I'd get picked up by someone and be able to confirm their alignment on D3.

BTW, this claim is much more believable than the ship one.

[Papa Zito]

Argh. Recap:

Claims

- I've claimed Earthling, but not ship
- Sigma claimed Arilou Lalee'lay on a Thraddash Torch (destroyed)
- Porkens hasn't claimed race but was on a Hierarchy/Neutral ship (Mycon? - which means he was lying earlier about it being on my unsure list)
- Rosso Carne is unclaimed on a Hierarchy ship of some sort
- Kast is Pkunk on an unclaimed ship
- Excedrin is a really big idiot. I don't see how that proves what he is either/or. Apparently he can investigate?

Unclaimed

- Kmd4390 is unclaimed in race and ship
- Plum is unclaimed in race and ship
- Rising is unclaimed in race and ship
- Locke is unclaimed in race and ship
- Dry-fit is unclaimed in race and ship

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
I agree with Sigma's assessment. He did not claim to be Thraddash; he claimed that IF he were scum, then he would not have thrown away a ship that makes him untargettable. This is still fallacious since if he is Thraddash, then it is likely that he is lying about his ship's ability.

I believe he's lying about the ship.

1. There's nothing about the Torch that makes it untargetable. Yehat Terminator? Sure. Utwig Jugger? Absolutely. Umgah Drone? Maybe. But not the Torch.
2. The Thraddash are stupid and aggressive. They regularly blow themselves back to pre-atomic days and have to rebuild again. The Torch's Afterburners were used to get them into battle faster, not to run away.
3. The Arilou are masters of Space and somewhat of Time. It doesn't make sense to me that one of them would start out stuck on a Hierarchy ship.

@Town - Look to yesterday plz before complaining about flavor.

Your ship being destroyed could come from a number of common town powers; I don't think you need anyone to come up with plausible scenarios for you, and asking for them is fishing and I don't like it.

Well said.

I have a night ability that let's me insult my target. My target is told who insulted them and the effect of the insult. I targeted Excedrin last night, and basically called him a really big idiot. I believe this reveals that I am Pkunk and confirms me as a townie.

The Pkunk insult their targets because, being such cosmically wonderful and happy creatures, they have to work themselves up to fight anyone. The in-game effect is that insults are how they recharge their ship's energy.

So this doesn't fit.

What purpose was there to targeting Excedrin?

[Papa Zito]

e) He's claiming rolecop, which isn't necessarily a town role, and was on a scumship. I think he's telling the truth about everything except his alignment. Zito, is there a role in the game that is likely to be scum and have the ability that Sigma is claiming?

Ummmmmmmmm

There's one, but it's a stretch.

The Ur-Quan race, before it was split into Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah subspecies, were enslaved by a race called the Dynarri. The Dynarri were powerful psychics, and the Ur-Quan turned out to be especially susceptible. So a Dynarri could do this, it wouldn't have its own ship, and it would be especially evil (but not Hierarchy).

This is ancient history though. In SCII times, the Dynarri have been overthrown and reduced to translators for both Ur-Quan subspecies ("Talking Pets") for thousands of years. The only reason I bring this up is that at one point in the game a Talking Pet wakes up to full Dynarri-hood and enslaves the Umgah, so there's a

shred

of a possibility that a Dynarri is present.

[Papa Zito]

Honestly, I agree with you about the flavor not making a great deal of sense. That's the hand I was dealt though, and I can't defend on that count otherwise. Do you have further questions about flavor for me?

No, not questions. I'm just saying why I'm skeptical.

Actually wait, I have one. Who do you want to pick you up?

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
-Without revealing the effect of my ability, I don't see how you can at all reasonably claim that my ability does not fit.

I guess I'll wait for the reveal then. As it stands it doesn't make a ton of sense.

-Revealing the purpose for targeting Excedrin will require revealing the effect of my ability. I see absolutely no reason to share that and have already expressed my position regarding that.

So the point of sharing this was to call yourself confirmed? If there was one scum left I'd agree but I'm guessing there's at least two left.

This aside, I want to hear from Rosso Carne on whether he has a hierarchy ship, and if he does, then why. This is a short day; so he really needs to post quickly.

Again, agreed. He should be eligible for a prod.

[Papa Zito]

I am sort of suspicious of Kast's claimed ability. There are a race of pranksters in the Hierarchy whose name I don't remember right now, but they have a tradition of broadcasting messages and pretending to be someone else. I was pretty much just waiting for someone to use an ability like this and trying to convince us that it clears him.

The Umgah. But they didn't have to aboard someone's ship to use their Caster.

[Papa Zito]

Zito, I'm willing to consider you town after the Keelie push. You know the flavor very well, making you an asset. So, I'm going to ask you. Does Sigma's claim basically confirm him? I don't see why he was on a red ship if it does, but it seems like it might. Also, does it make sense for the role he claimed to be on a red ship?

His roleclaim makes perfect sense to me. However I have no idea why an Arilou would be on a Thraddash ship. (The Arilou are capable of warping in and out of Truespace at will so it's hard to imagine they'd be stuck anywhere) The Thraddash ship's claimed power doesn't make much sense to me but I may be overthinking it.

@Mod:

Votecount plz.

[Papa Zito]

The Ultronomicon wiki on the Umgah states that the Caster was stolen by the Spathi. At what point in time did this happen?

Just a few years before SCII begins. So for our purposes the Caster is either still in their hands or Zelnick has it, depending on the year (grr SpyreX).

---

Incidentally, Orz would want to board other people's ships. Just sayin.

[Papa Zito]

Not really. I am on a red ship too.

Ah.

unvote: sigma
vote: Dry-fit

[Papa Zito]

Why the switch, Zito? Should we get dry-fit to ship-claim? I think he should ship-claim.

I'm voting him because he A) didn't ship claim and B) didn't blow his ship up.

@all: Should we let Rosso get modkilled and lynch someone else?

This is the route I'm following. No reason to lynch Rosso when he's just going to get modkilled anyway.

[Papa Zito]

Uh

Not really. I am on a red ship too.

@Dry-fit-
Does your race match your ship?

Yes.

Both parts are colored how they would investigate (if that is possible)

Alliance

,

Hierarchy

or

????

I've never seen scum claim before. wow

[Papa Zito]

I guess I am a miller then.

You guess?

What did you think you were?

[Papa Zito]

I'll just say that ZEX is not a generic Vux

Lawl, that's an understatement.

The VUX hate the Earthlings with a passion because the Earthlings are ugly... in fact that's why the VUX went to war with them in the first place. But ZEX is something of a fetishist, and finds humans er alluring. So he ends up helping the good Captain Zelnick out during the game.

That makes ZEX more of a traitor than miller tho IMO.

[Papa Zito]

unvote

There's too much crap going on.

Just to keep this all straight:

Claims

- Papa Zito has claimed Earthling on an unclaimed ship
- Sigma claimed Arilou Lalee'lay on a Thraddash Torch (destroyed)
- Porkens is unclaimed on a Mycon Podship (destroyed)
- Rosso Carne is unclaimed on a Hierarchy ship of some sort
- Kast has claimed Pkunk on an unclaimed ship (confirmed by Excedrin)
- Dry-fit is VUX (Admiral ZEX - miller) on a Vux ship

Unclaimed

- Kmd4390 is unclaimed in race and ship
- Plum is unclaimed in race and ship
- Rising is unclaimed in race and ship
- Locke is unclaimed in race and ship
- Excedrin is unclaimed in race and ship

We're really close to mass claim territory here.

[Papa Zito]

Dry-Fit, I'm iffy on your claim for a few reasons. You need to full claim as miller. Your abilities, your ship's abilities, your flavor, your action(s) last night.

[Papa Zito]

Come on Dry-Fit, you're stalling the game now.

[Papa Zito]

Your analogy oversimplifies and does not include critical issues:
--Action L harms the target.
--When a player, P_i, does Action M to another player, P_j, P_i allows P_j to do Action L.
--When a player, P_k, does Action N, P_k is protected against Action L and allows Action M to be done to P_k.
-Player A suspects that some unknown Player B is trying to do Action L.
-Player C asks Player A to do Action M, and claims he has reason to believe some unknown Player B is trying to do Action L.
-Player D also asks Player A to do Action M, and claims he has reason to believe some unknown Player B is trying to do Action L.

Kast.

Buddy.

Hey, I like you. You contribute a lot, you argue stuff without getting abrasive. It's great. But man, when you do that ^^^ my eyes immediately glaze over and I'm not able to absorb what you're saying. It's not lack of trying either, honest injun, but I'm just way too tired to parse a bunch of variables. If you could simplify this kind of stuff so that a simple mind can figure it out easier, that'd be appreciated.

[Papa Zito]

Papa Zito, do you still think that Locke Lamora is scum? What about Kmd4390 or Porkens?

Yeah, Locke's still pretty high on my lynch list.

I'm still

reaaaaaally

iffy on Kmd, but I may just be smarting from his day 1 shenanigans. Porkens worries me a bit as an unclaimed race on a Hierarchy ship.

[Papa Zito]

No, that was superb. Superb. /Empire Records

Do you not think sigma's claim, then, makes him less likely to be a vampire?

[Papa Zito]

Okay, here's what I suggest.

1. I think Rosso is highly likely to be scum.
2. I think Dry-Fit is also highly likely to be scum (Reason: he's the only one so far to claim an actual

character

from the game vs. one of the randomly generated names)

Town's optimal play here is to quicklynch Dry-Fit so that Rosso also gets killed. 2-for-1.

vote: Dry-Fit

[Papa Zito]

There's still a distinct lack of flavor there.

Let me be more direct.

Admiral ZEX was exiled to Alpha Cerenkov I after the war. Why were you allowed to break your exile and travel to Zeta Sextantis I? Is the attempted double-cross of Zelnick talked about in your PM?

[Papa Zito]

@Zito: The flavor I already gave is pretty much all there is. None of the things you just mentioned are talked about in my role pm.

I, on the other hand, know none of it, and my flavor is only that which is assumed, since I was given no backstory for my character, only an ability, a ship and it's abilities, and a racial name. Other than that; nothing.

These are remarkably similar to me.

Your claims are also very similar. KRW claimed Mmrnmhrm, who are planetbound. You claimed ZEX, who is planetbound.

[Papa Zito]

I have to confess I am slipping behind with this game. I won't be able to get on until Monday and I was going to come and vote Dry-fit with my final post for the day but as he's already at L-1 I will hold off. For the record, I do not buy his claim and I agree that his attitude towards red ships is completely inconsistent with his own claim. I'm no expert on the flavour of this game but based on what I know, the claim seems incomplete and implausible; in short, it reads like KRW's as a player trying to fakeclaim flavour they don't know much about.

Mod: will be V/LA until Monday.

We're going to have to take care of this tomorrow, btw.

[Papa Zito]

Plum is scum.

This is interesting. I've started thinking that too.

[Papa Zito]

NOOO PLUM.

[Papa Zito]

Yes, we need to massclaim at this point. Ships and races.

Also WTF Chenjesu.

[Papa Zito]

Bah.

Plum as Sireen is cute.

She was and she was on my ship last night and now she's blowed up.

[Papa Zito]

^^Confirm this.

[Papa Zito]

Kmd, does your ship have any active abilities? Yeah, the mask is just flavor, each Utwig has one.

---

I'll go. What the hell. I'm distraught.

I already said I'm Earthling and blah blah blah.

I'm flying a Precursor ship. It has the ability to swap two people each night. Night 1 I switched Plum and Rising, Night 2 I switched them back.

We'd come up with a great plan for Plum to pick up people with her Syreen ship so that sigma could keep scanning people. And now she's dust. She even got a Syreen avatar.

Waiting on Kast.

[Papa Zito]

-To be clear, Rising and Zito sound like they are claiming masons or something to that effect. This implies that they are either telling the truth OR they are scum together.

Rising and I have a QT. Plum and I have a separate one. We could talk in those QTs any time we wished.

[Papa Zito]

It's just from being on the ship together.

[Papa Zito]

Also, Plum was going to try to pick them all up. One of the features of her ship was the ability to priority pickup anyone floating in space (to test them all at once). I have a feeling she was successful, but then was blasted.

[Papa Zito]

Also, Zito explain this?

This is interesting. I've started thinking that too.

I was attempting to save Plum's life. Nobody was suspecting her, so I threw that out at the last second in hopes it would divert the scum from attacking her.

[Papa Zito]

Recap

Papa Zito

- has claimed Earthling. The Earthling has no claimed racial ability.
- has claimed a Precursor ship. The claimed Precursor ship can swap people between ships.
- says he swapped Rising and Plum N1, then Plum and Rising N2. Rising has confirmed.

Excedrin

- has claimed Zoq-Fot-Pik. The ZFP can scan ships and get blueprints.
- has claimed an Umgah Drone. The claimed Umgah Drone can use its Caster to send messages and RB targets.
- scanned and RB'd Rosso N1
- scanned Kmd and nullified Locke, but Locke RB failed

Kmd

- has claimed Utwig. The Utwig has no claimed racial ability.
- has claimed Utwig Jugger. The claimed Jugger can absorb energy directed at it.
- 0 energy was absorbed N1, 3 energy was absorbed N2.

Rising

- has claimed Melnorme. The Melnorme's claimed racial ability is to regenerate a ship's energy. (Zito can confirm the ability though not the race)
- has claimed he started without a ship.
- said he joined Papa Zito on Day 1. Zito has confirmed this.

Kast

- has claimed Pkunk. The Pkunk's racial ability is to possibly come back to life if killed.
- has claimed a Pkunk Fury. The Fury's claimed ability is to insult/roleblock a target's racial ability. Target is aware of a successful roleblock.
- Insulted/RBed Excedrin N1, and Locke N2. Excedrin confirmed the N1 action.

---

Did I miss anything? Also Kmd does the Utwig have a racial ability?

[Papa Zito]

Rising and I have a QT. Plum and I have a separate one. We could talk in those QTs any time we wished.

*Headscratch*

*Starts to wonder if you are confusing Keelie and Plum*

Wat? No.

- D0 Rising appears on my ship.
- D1 we talk
- N1 I swap him and Plum
- D2 Plum and I talk
- N2 I swap Rising and Plum again
- D3 Rising and I talk

[Papa Zito]

What the hell did scum do that uses 3 units?!?

I suspect our Shofixti friend used his Glory Device.

[Papa Zito]

Zito, clarify what you mean by "swapping".

I can target, say, you and Excedrin.

You will suddenly wake up on Excedrin's ship.
Excedrin will suddenly wake up on your ship.

1. Your recap also forgot my batteries that can hold any amount of energy.

And the absorption shield is listed as RA, so I assume that means racial ability.

1. Okay.
2. What's your ship's ability then? Or it has none?

[Papa Zito]

What the hell did scum do that uses 3 units?!?

I suspect our Shofixti friend used his Glory Device.

What does this mean in English?

The Shofixti ship is absolute crap.

BUT it has a self-destruct mechanism that, if it's close enough to even the largest ships, will take them out too.

[Papa Zito]

In transit on my phone, so no quoting.

I'm thinking he used it from the sheer number of dead.
It may also explain why you absorbed so much energy.
Suicide bomb should be a ship ability. The Shifixti doesn't explode. lawl
I have QTs with people who were physically with me on my ship. If someone was with you you'd have a QT with them too.
I'll update the summary when I get to a computer.

[Papa Zito]

Zito: You say that "Also, Plum was going to try to pick them all up", but this implies some pretty unintuitive timing mechanism; that you could switch me and Plum before Plum would get to her ship and be able to use her ships abilities. I don't think that's how it works. Obviously, we can't know for sure (unless Mod somehow have confirmed to you that it would work that way).

Plum confirmed with the mod regarding how pickups work with her ship. That's what made the plan viable. I'd quote her from the QT but I don't think I'm allowed to.

It's weird you'd ask this when your ability worked on my ship last night after the swap.

@Zito-
I want to hear your thoughts.

So.

1. SpyreX is not holding strictly to canon.
2. I think scum have fakeclaims, given the Chenjesu flip during the night. It explains why Keelie chose Mmrnmhrm as a fakeclaim.
3. There are too many inconsistencies with Excedrin's story. Also the Zoq-Fot-Pik have no scanning abilities whatsoever. They're a technically inferior race.
4. If there are two scum left, then Excedrin and Kmd are cross-bussing each other.

tl;dr Lynch Excedrin, if that doesn't win then lynch Kmd.

[Papa Zito]

Could someone point them out to me? I don't really see the case against Excedrin, myself. Are you only thinking about thematical inconsistencies, or are there things about his play that bothers you?

Thematical is one part, at least for me. More important is his backtracking regarding Kast's insult power.

Kast's actions prev night confirm to me that he's Pkunk. There's something unrelated to Kast's ability that I haven't revealed that doubly confirms that he is Pkunk. If it's possible, I'd rather not reveal it at all.

If you really didn't use a racial ability (hyperwave broadcaster), then you would not have been informed that I have a roleblocking ability. You would also not be informed any flavor on why my blocking did not affect you.

[Papa Zito]

@Case on Excedrin-
Actually, I think the most direct contradiction is this:

Kmd4390 is on an Ur-Quan Dreadnought.

My role is Lololo, Utwig and my ship is Utwig Jugger.

One of them is lying. I'm fine with lynching one and role-blocking the other.

That exchange is what leads me to believe that they are cross-bussing. If there are two left.

Ready to hammer Excedrin, so if you have anything important to tell us now's the time.

[Papa Zito]

lolcrosspost. Reading.

[Papa Zito]

Ugh.

Kmd, can I have your full, completely unabridged claim please, without having to guess and draw things out over multiple posts?

[Papa Zito]

Zito hasn't hammered.

And I'm not going to until I get this crap straight in my head.

I don't think that this is where he got it. He has presumably played the game. All allied races provide their ship's blueprints to the Earthlings when they become allies.

...

This is correct. I'm not sure what it means that you bring it up. I was planning to.

@Zito-
It may be worthwhile to swap either Rising or Myself with KMD tonight. If he is the final mafia and if he kills by a ship ability, that would presumably stop the kill or potentially prevent him from killing both yourself and Rising in one go. Another possibility, if you can send people to another ship, you could send Rising to my ship where any kill attempts would have to count on not triggering my reincarnation.

It's something I'd like to talk to Rising about if he ever gets his sorry butt back to our QT.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-

That said, Rising, could Plum have used her ability to cause people to jump ship on Locke Lamora and then picked him up?

-Was this part of your plan as discussed with Plum?
-When you switch players, are they able to use Active Abilities after the switch?

The plan was:
1. I switch Rising and Plum back, so she can have her ship back.
2. Plum uses her priority pickup ability to pick up both of the floating gents. Most importantly, sigma.
3. Plum uses her ships other ability (the ability to snatch a player off of his ship) on someone else. She said she'd probably take Locke.

Players can't use active abilities, no. Plum had an active racial ability that she couldn't use. Her flavor said she "disoriented." Rising's passive ability doesn't seem affected.

Rising and I are hammering stuff out still.

[Papa Zito]

I have a quick question for all of you. Do you find the following setup balanced?

- 3 scum
- 1 survivor/neutral
- 4 millers
- 4 townies

[Papa Zito]

Excedrin claims to be a ship-cop.

[Papa Zito]

Papa Zito thinks that I'm a survivor. I hope it's just because of thematical reasons, and not that he thinks I haven't been helpful to town.

You claimed Melnorme. They are not allied to anyone.

So, here's what I think we need to do.

vote: Kmd

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
Interesting. Is there a reason you prefer a KMD lynch over Excedrin?

I prefer them equally but a Kmd lynch removes more variables, I think.

Let's pretend Kmd is scum for the moment and Excedrin is lynched. That leaves us with

Zito + Rising
Kast
Kmd

Your plan is to roleblock Kmd, which is fine. However, his energy absorption gives me pause - I'm afraid that your roleblock could fail. Instead we lynch Kmd and remove his shield variable from the equation. You are now free to roleblock Excedrin. This should prevent NKs, assuming Excedrin is also scum.

If Rising is survivor he's certainly not playing to survivor win condition.

I've noted this as well.

[Papa Zito]

^^^hurp durp

Assuming this is endgame of course.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
Does your swapping stop players from using ship abilities of the ship they have prior to being swapped?

This I don't know. I'll clarify with the mod. My gut reaction is that the swap is resolved first, given that Rising's ability triggered after he was swapped back to my ship last night.

[Papa Zito]

I've found daytalk to be the most powerful weapon in a player's arsenal. I'm really amazed it's not used more often around here.

Rising/Zito QT

Spyrex. Dude. WTF with Zex and Chenjesu? Srsly.

Also, I seriously thought I'd totally blown this game. So much relief do I have.

[Papa Zito]

The Chenjesu was in there because even with the occasional Hierarchy race thrown in as Town it was still difficult to find races that were obviously not anti-Town. So canon got broken a bit.

Chmmr?

The Survivor was actually one of the more fun design ideas in the setup IMO.
Since we have a flavor expert here, I'll ask a design question. When SpyreX decided to give the Spathi a safeclaim (good idea), he wanted Slylandro and I pushed for Melnorme. (In retrospect Orz would have *fit* best with Rising's abilities, but Orz, etc.) Which was the better option?

I wouldn't have believed Slylandro and would have pushed for his lynch. The Slylandro were (again) a planetbound race and weren't capable of interstellar travel. Supox would have worked I think.

It's funny, I PMed SpyreX complaining about letting an Orz on my ship. My plan was to warp myself off and take over Excedrin's. That way if Rising Orzed my ship he'd kill a probable bad guy too.

I never got to do an epic roleclaim as Syreen seductress

There's still time!

(My secret goal is a trilogy of these games: one more mini and then a TRULY EPIC large that, of course, anyone who has played in either mini gets super access to if they'd like)

/in