Mini 856 - Star Control: Zeta Sextantis - Over

[Rosso Carne]

/conf

[Rosso Carne]

I'd HAMMAH! Kast

Pretty sure he's scum

[Rosso Carne]

@Rosso: any particular reason you think Kast is scum?

@Porkens:

If I were vig, I'd shoot KMD.

Can you elaborate? Given that you're voting for Zito, do you believe that KMD and Zito are both scum who are engaging in early-game distancing?

@Excedrin:

Early bus never happens?

Early game distancing happens, certainly. Honestly, I hadn't considered that possibility -- I would think it unlikely that KMD-scum would attack Papa-scum right off the bat like that, personally.

yeah, i dont just randomly pick people as scum, i have reasoning behind it.

[Rosso Carne]

Zito, tell me what you, Plum, and Sigma did that was "obvious" and why scum wouldn't do it.

I've never seen a scum team actively defend each other in thread.

Zito, Porkens is probably town and Excedrin is probably town too. Who do you find scummy?

I'm not terribly fond of either one. If sarcasm = scum then game over, the whole site just lost.

wifom

[Rosso Carne]

I'm trying to demostrate what a real scumtell looks like, because it seems people have forgotten.

There's nothing scummy about sarcasm; that whole argument is stupid.

being unhelpful is scummy.

youre unhelpful

but i think its becase youre a n00B

[Rosso Carne]

being unhelpful is scummy.

Then, would you mind help us by explaining why you're voting for Kast?

im not voting for anyone.

[Rosso Carne]

@Plum-
-I'm assuming that "Kise" refers to "Kast"? You kinda swapped there in the middle.

-To paraphrase your argument, you admit that I am scumhunting and have raised several valid points, however, you object to my failure to vote based on any of the things I have raised. Is this an accurate summary of your reason for voting "Kise"?

I'll vote when I'm ready to vote; either if I find a player I am willing to lynch or if I feel my vote would help to elicit a response/reaction.

-I don't think it helps to give scum lots of easy wagons to jump aboard. Voting for each and every potential tell just lets scum blend easier while pushing a mislynch without getting any heat for doing so.

@KMD-
I'm not sure why you read me as obv-town. You've called me that in at least two other games we've played (I was town in both and you were town in one and scum in the other). The game where you were town, I could understand why you called me obvtown. The game where you were scum, I didn't see why you as a townie would call me obvtown, but I accepted your support nonetheless. I'll accept it again here, but I'd like to hear your reasons.

@Rosso-
Are you going to share your reason(s) for wanting to hammer me?

@Zito-
-Agreed that sarcasm itself is not inherently scummy. If it is used in place of defending oneself, that is scummy (although this is by virtue of not giving a defense, not because anything is wrong with sarcasm). I don't see Zito's situation as falling into that category.

-I'm not seeing the case against Zito. I think he is right to say it is extremely weak.

@Rising-
-When you avoid addressing an argument by attacking a player's irrelevant, personal, meta-statistics, that is petty and I'll call you on it. If you didn't post that in the first place, then I wouldn't call you on it. I didn't call it stupid.

Perhaps you felt your example was clever and relevant. I disagree and feel it was a very petty and childish way to attack other players while avoiding addressing the main point.

-Your new argument against Excedrin is much more valid; objecting to his claim that "sarcasm" is a scum tell is reasonable. It is not the same as your initial argument which you pushed despite others pointing out it's flaws. It looks like you have abandoned your initial argument.

-Ironically, you call out Dry-fit for the same behavior that you engaged in within the same post. This has been pointed out, but should not detract from your point against Dry-fit which is valid.

no

[Rosso Carne]

When you avoid addressing an argument by attacking a player's irrelevant, personal, meta-statistics, that is petty and I'll call you on it. [...] I disagree and feel it was a very petty and childish way to attack other players

O RLY?

Kast wrote: "You may personally be incapable of catching scum tells without the benefit of hindsight. Please don't automatically assume that your limitations are true for everyone else."

Irrelevant? Nope, you brought this issue up yourself, and it was

me

who called

you

out on it. I was willing to put your statement above to the test.

I didn't call it stupid.

I didn't accuse you of calling

this particular

sentence stupid (you did that in an earlier post). I wondered why you had to be such a jerk

in this game

. If you want to provoke to get a reaction there are other, much better ways.

Your new argument against Excedrin, objecting to his claim that "sarcasm" is a scum tell is reasonable

What are you talking about? That is not my "new argument". That was just what had happened in the beginning of he game, when I wrote my first post. I therefore naturally assumed that every player had seen it, so I didn't feel the need to point it out.

And how could you possibly believe that the argument you propose would be a reasonable argument against

Excedrin?

It was

KMD

that started the bandwagon against Pipo and said that sarcasm was a scumtell (he's

still

saying it, btw). It would've been extremely scummy and completely nonsensical for a player to vote Excedrin and not KMD, if his argument was what you've just proposed.

Please explain yourself, because there must be something that I've misunderstood.

---

Do you really think Kmd was being serious? Kmd himself has stated he was not.

KMD was just instigating with his

first

post - that's true - but Sigma responded to a later post, where KMD said that he was

sure

that Papa was scum (and KMD

has not changed his opinion since then!

- he does it again in #71). That's how serious he is.

No, it's not what he wrote, but so what?

You lied; and you think it's not a big deal?

(Well, I can see this as an honest and understandable mistake, actually, but I had to call you out on it to get a read on you)

Are you really going to argue that his stated reason for voting means something different?

Yes, of course I'm going to. Sigma's

stated

reason for voting in #33 is a reasonable and sensible post, but his explanation in #38 is pretty crazy and certainly up for a debate. There's no way you can convince me that #38 follows logically from #33.

My point was that Kmd has done the former(and no one has objected), and clearly has not done the latter. Where can a semantics debate pop up?

Actually, Sigma

has

objected. He just resigned to the silliness of your argument and admitted that "Sure, he generated discussion -- bully for him, I'll keep it in mind. I wasn't a fan of the way in which he generated discussion, however". Your silly semantics argument implied that when Sigma wrote "The goal of this stage of the game is to generate discussion" he should be fine with

any

discussion what so ever (even a ridiculous one), and that was clearly not what he meant. He has already explained this himself.

I did say so, as already explained

That's a pretty far reach, Dry.

"So you're saying he's scum for accomplishing the goal of this stage by creating discussion?" does

not

equal "The reason I disliked his vote is because I don't believe Kmd was seriously trying to 'convince other players to vote your lynch target' at all".

What do you say about Sigma's view: "My opinion is that this could possibly be scum trying to appear like the stereotypical aggressive pro-town player, and I voted him to underline this point." Plum tells us in #84 that KMD has been known to do this as scum in other games.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

write who the damn quotes are from

[Rosso Carne]

@Rosso: stop quoting entire giant posts k thx

unvote

Vote: Porkens

Didn't respond to my question and is lurking.

no

[Rosso Carne]

uhm

maybe

not 100% sure though

[Rosso Carne]

mmhmm

i was right

kast needs some votes please.

[Rosso Carne]

mmhmm

i was right

kast needs some votes please.

@Rosso: I'm genuinely interested in your reasoning. After reading up on Kast's meta a bit, I think he's null right now, and I'm interested in what you've picked up on. Ready to reveal yet?

@Mod: Can you prod KRW? Are there prods in the BaM ruleset?

---

I like plum's 159. I've been having a lot of trouble getting reads on Rising, Excedrin and Kast, since they've all been involved in big walls of text, and that post helps me organize the morass of posts a little better.

---

I'm a little concerned about dry-fit. Here's what he's done so far:

1. Scumhunting/attacking me.
2. Defend himself from Rising attacks.
3. Respond to Kast questioning.

and that's the complete sum of his actions this game -- he's literally done nothing else. That seems like a very small contribution, honestly. After having read up on his meta, he seemed to contribute more in his one completed game as town. On the other hand, in that game he also focused on one player as scummy initially and then voted him later -- so his focusing on me early seems to be playstyle and not indicative of a scum-tell.

I have an obvious bias because he's voting me, and I'd like to get others' reads on Dry-fit -- any takers?

nah

and may the town know that its your fault too.

bitching about my quoting. rudeness will never get you anywhere little man.

[Rosso Carne]

I don't like Dry-Fit's responses. I get the impression he was looking for something to jump for. I posed some mildly leading questions and he jumped at them.

My read is he is either a townie who doesn't know how to contribute and is eager to do so but doesn't want to "mess up" again like he did with his Sigma case, OR scum trying to avoid attention and latch on to a "safe" mislynch wagon. If it goes anywhere, he could always drop responsibility back at me for suggesting it, if not, he still appears to be reasonably trying to help out the town.

This isn't extremely strong, but I think it's the clearest thing I've seen so far and is sufficient for a vote. It is less ideal since two others have expressed suspicion of Dry-Fit (although Rising also kinda jumped on leads I dropped). This also wasn't exactly a trap set for Dry-fit specifically; I think he could easily have responded with similar content but changed his tone and I would probably be fine with it. His tone makes me suspect the response that he did give.

Vote: Dry-Fit

I'm also going to be pretty busy this weekend so probably won't be around to post. I'll try to check in a few more times today.

-Addendum to this. If Dry-fit is scum, I could see Rising's vote as a distancing/bus.

@Plum's post-
Good post on the whole. I think you're doing a good job of looking at a player for personal consistency, which Rising lacks. I don't think your post gives a fair treatment to Dry-Fit; who clearly misrepresented Sigma's posts.

@Excedrin-
Rosso's posting style is anti-town. The difference between my posting and his is far more than his being directed and mine being general. Suspicions should have reasons attached. As a townie, if you have information to guide the town to make a good lynch, then share it so the town does so. Sharing your thoughts also helps you avoid mistakes in your reasoning by giving you input from others who might notice mistakes that you make.

I'm not advocating lynching Rosso for having an anti-town playstyle. However, it is ridiculous to claim his behavior is at all better than anyone who is actually playing this game.

@Rosso-
-You didn't answer my question. Please do so.

-Consider that you aren't helping the town by telling people to throw votes with no reason. Your behavior essentially asks everyone to give you a free pass to not play in this game but while actively lurking. If you are a townie, I hope your night play is much better than your day play.

If you are genuinely suspicious of me, then help the town by letting them know why they should vote for me. If you aren't, then you clearly are not doing any scumhunting. We already have one inactive/lurker, we don't need more deadweight.

How bout: go to hell shakira?

serious, dont get hoity toity with me. My posting is extremely town. Giving up reads on people is just the way to give the scum an idea of how to avoid them. The scum thrive on their information, and having even more enables them to disappear easier.

As a townie, how do I have any night play at all besides dying or not dying?

the fact that you get all concerned about one pos post like that is reeeeeeeeeeeeally scummy.

kast is scum

betting a bunch on that one.

vote him

I'll HAMMAH!

[Rosso Carne]

@ Sigma : How would it be possible for me to "Prove" to you that I shouldn't be lynched? You have no proof but my word, saying that I have two jobs, both nearing full-time status; on top of which I have one dead parent and two siblings who are minors and require my attention every so often. Forgive me if it seems I am "making things up", as I am not.
Of course, it is all on you to see I am telling the truth; if you still wish to vote me, feel free. It'll be on you're head when innocent blood is spilled.

@ Plum : Sorry hun. Been REALLY busy... My own mother made a recent comment on how she never sees me much anymore, and when she did I looked like death from overworking.
I will try to be more active in the future, I promise.

@ Kast : Not a lurker... Just a worker-bee in the honeycomb of the flailing economy.

Sorry guys,

Unvote, Vote: Rosso Carne

for the way his last post read to me. It seemed overly angry... Why?
Seems like there's something to hide there.

mmhmm

I am angry, I get angry when people tell me how to play my game not because I have something to hide.

[Rosso Carne]

Questions:

1. How did you manage to get stuck on someone else's ship without a Night 0?

Apparently, flavor-wise, I jacked it.

2. What happened to your ship?

Dunno

3. What kind of ship are you on?

I'm not going to say. I'm afraid such information would benefit the scum

4. Can you control the ship?

I can not use it's special powers

5. Is the Mafia guy with you?

Not that I know of

6. How are you going to blow up the ship?

Every ship possesses:

P.) Energy value. Your default value, unless otherwise noted, is your max value.
A.) Jettison (N) - Destroy your own ship sending all players on it into space. This requires 0 energy.
A.) Retrieve (N) - Select a player who has been jettisoned. They will become part of your ship. This requires 0 energy.

7. Why Kast then?

Unnecessary mega posting. Too many pbpa's on day one, expressing very strong reads on people. Preferring no-lynch. Does not attack lurkers strongly enough.

:goodposting:

kast's level of helpfulness, combined with unnecessary veiled OMGUS without a vote in case it goes nowhere {truth}

scummy

this biznatch needs votes