DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!forbiddanlight wrote:FIRST!
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I saw that too about hascow, but decided not to mention it because I have no read on the likelihood of it being a town night action or a scum night action. Until such time as cow seemed scummy, I didn't think it was in the town's interest to say anything.VP Baltar wrote:You can pm me later forbiddan.
On the topic of slow activity, however, I would move that the scum would be going especially out of their way to lurk in this game since it would actually have an effect upon the deadline. To that end, I move that lurking not be tolerated in the slightest for this game.
To that end,Unvote, Vote hasdgfas
Claimed he could not find the thread initially and then he implied that he has a night action.
Basically, what you're doing amounts to role fishing, without other reasoning why you think cow might be scum.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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It looks like I could have just QFT'ed this and then said:Juls wrote:I noticed what hasdgfas said and I realized he probably had a power role but thought it was better not to put a big flashing light on it to say "HEY LOOK AT HIM". I don't think the question was necessarily pro-town since it is one that could have been asked in private and I don't think it is very pro-town of VP Baltar to make an issue of it this early simply because it could go either way. You are either pushing the lynch of someone who has a power role or you are pushing the lynch of scum. Either way, we should let the rest of his actions speak for themselves.
Also, VP is role fishing.Talk nerdy to me.
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Why would cow implying he has a night action be harmful to the town?
Only if he's town and outed himself as a power role. In which case you shouldn't be voting for him, seeing as he's town, and a power role.
If he's scum trying to set up a fake claim, I don't see how that's so harmful to town. Faking a power role is not that easy, contrary to popular belief, and there will be multiple ways to catch him if that's what he's trying to do.
I'm not assuming that. What does that have to do with anything?VP wrote:Why do you assume that only town persons would have seen his question?Talk nerdy to me.
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Of course outing yourself as a power role is harmful to town, but um, the person would still be town, so it's even more harmful to town to vote/lynch them.
I realize that scum are apt to pick up on a breadcrumb, maybe even more that town. So I don't mind you pointing it out for that reason. Whether you pointed it out or not, it would still be there. But your questions do more that point out his potential breadcrumb, they force him and others to talk about it more, which increases the chance that he or someone else will give another clue to their role. It is a way of role fishing.
I think what you are trying to say is that you did NOT think there was any chance that cow was a power role, and that you thought cow was planting that in advance of a fake claim and so it was inherently scummy. You're saying no real power role would ask a question in thread because they wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves.
My question to you, VP, do you still think what cow did was scummy? Or do you think he just tends to like to nail down the rules?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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And what makes his question/breadcrumb more likely to be a scum move than a town move?VP Baltar wrote:
I did not actually say that there was no chance of that. I do, however, think it would be more likely as a scum move than a town move.elvis wrote:I think what you are trying to say is that you did NOT think there was any chance that cow was a power role, and that you thought cow was planting that in advance of a fake claim and so it was inherently scummy. You're saying no real power role would ask a question in thread because they wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves.
Do you view all breadcrumbs that way? If not, what was more scummy about this one?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I just don't think that's the way you should act around breadcrumbs unless you have a reason to think it's fake or the person is scummy. I guess you're saying it was too obvious, and therefore looked fake?
The risk of outing roles seems worse than the potential benefit. Because the attack is so WIFOM that it's hardly damning to hascow.
(And by outing roles, I don't mean that the breadcrumb would have remained hidden or scum wouldn't see it. But by you commenting on it and forcing cow and others to comment on it, gives more information about who might be power roles and who might not be).Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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You brought it up. You made it a topic of conversation. And I'm TRYING to figure out if it was possible that you had pro-town motivations or if you were just role fishing.
And if accusing you of rolefishing makes ME a rolefisher, then, yes I am. But I don't see any way around that.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Pesco47 wrote:
Second this.VP Baltar wrote:
Explain.PaperPenguin wrote:I would have waited until tomorrow before suggesting that hasd is actively baiting a nightkill, something useful might happen if the scum try to reach for the lowest hanging fruit.
Sure it's rather crappy for a serious vote reason, but look where it's come to now. You're still voting cow for lack of a better target, I expect you should find one pretty soon.VP Baltar wrote:To that end,Unvote, Vote hasdgfas
Claimed he could not find the thread initially and then he implied that he has a night action.
This is a strawman misrep, right?VP Baltar wrote:
So you were just worried about somebody who may potentially have a night action and were just trying to be helpful?hasdgfas wrote:And how does that imply I have a night action? Seriously, it's clarifying the rules.
I believe votes have always been indicative of lynching intent. When you said this, you did want cow to hang because that's what your actions had shown.VP Baltar wrote:No one said that he should be lynched for it. I think it did deserve clarification, however because I don't assume anyone to be an idiot, and I wouldn't expect someone with a powerrole to be foolishly asking questions like that in the thread. I could however see scum trying to buy town points subtly.
On the other hand, e_K's questions all feel like loaded ones that goad VPB into particular responses.
Unvote
Vote VPB
FoS e_kunvote vote pesco
For trying to have it both ways while putting VP L-1.Talk nerdy to me.
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If you think I am asking loaded questions, why would you agree with me and vote VP? To the point of putting him L-1?Pesco47 wrote:There's no good reason for me not to suspect the both of you.
You're calling my attack scummy AND agreeing with my conclusion at the same time. That does not make sense.
It seems like a very dangerous thing to do, to put a guy at L-1 when you are suspicious of his main attacker. If you think I'm scum, then you should doubt the case on VP. But you're sure enough to put him L-1 on page 5?Talk nerdy to me.
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I would like to know why Juls and forbiddan are voting empking over pesco.
I agree his vote was just an echo of my reasoning, etc, but his vote was L-2, and PEsco's vote put VP at L-1 (on page 4, not page fiev like I said last post). Pesco's vote is worse because it was the latest one on the wagon, going L-1 on page 4, plus she calls me scummy in the same post. If you think guy's main attacker is scummy, you don't put guy at L-1.Talk nerdy to me.
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Are you really a psycholinguist? Because your read is basically the opposite of what I actually thought, and I'm pretty sure it's obvious from what I wrote.Pesco47 wrote:If I don't have 2 votes to throw around, I make do with a FoS. In my mind, I've already lined them up as my lynch preferences.
The questions I don't like the sound of:elvis_knits wrote:How could asking that question in thread beharmful to the town?
Packing the gotcha's there. On a psycholinguistics level I notice the repetition which is underlined. E_k has been trying to paint cow's move as 'harmful to town' by asking the questions like this.elvis_knits wrote:Why would cow implying he has a night action beharmful to the town?
I DON'T think cow's actions are harmful to the town. That's why I was asking VP how cow's actions could be harmful. Because I don't think they are. Unless cow is town and outed himself as a power role, and in that case, voting him is not something we would want to do anyway.
Of course you're free to do whatever you want, but it always makes me rethink voting for someone if I don't like the attacks coming from their biggest attacker. Especially if it's close to a lynch.pesco wrote:
I am free to suspect a person with or without agreeing to your opinions. When I voted, I knew it was not a lynch and made no further consideration for L- however much it was.elvis_knits wrote:If you think I am asking loaded questions, why would you agree with me and vote VP? To the point of putting him L-1?
You're calling my attack scummy AND agreeing with my conclusion at the same time. That does not make sense.
It seems like a very dangerous thing to do, to put a guy at L-1 when you are suspicious of his main attacker. If you think I'm scum, then you should doubt the case on VP. But you're sure enough to put him L-1 on page 5?
If you knew it was not a lynch, that means you must have counted the votes, and knew it was L-1.
Can you explain why these things don't matter to you? Because they matter to me, so I'd like to know your perspective.
I didn't have time to do a long post at the time. And I didn't realize it would be that hard to understand... that I would need a long explanation.pesco wrote: I'd like to know now, why did you not post more concise reasoning when you voted me? All of this you could have easily said with the vote post, but you've waited until after some other people have voted and voiced their views. Why?
In the post where I voted you, I wrote one sentence that summarizes my views on you.
"Trying to have it both ways" was about you suspecting me and my case on VP, while still voting VP, which does not make sense to me as I have explained more since then. And the L-1 thing was there too. So everything that I have said since on the topic is present in the vote post, but I guess it was not clear enough. So I have since explained more.pesco wrote:For trying to have it both ways while putting VP L-1.Talk nerdy to me.
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I'm having trouble understanding wtf paperpenguin is doing here. He seems to be saying a similar thing to what VP was saying -- that breadcrumbs are scummy. He's also pulling stuff out his ass like death millers. My feeling on that sort of speculation is that UNTIL we know something concrete about weird/bastard roles, speculating on them is useless at best, and confusing to the town at worst. Confusing the town, distracting from scum hunting, is very bad.
paperpenguin, are you from another site too? Because your discussion of death millers and jesters is not what I would expect from a noob.Talk nerdy to me.
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But I was asking how cows actions are harmful to town. Because I don't see how they are. So how can I be trying to say that cows actions are harmful to town?Pesco47 wrote:
Still studying but I know enough to make the observation. The point of reference in your questions is the phrase 'harmful to town'. It asks things from a negative perspective. If the respondent isn't careful, you've baited them into a slip.elvis_knits wrote:Are you really a psycholinguist? Because your read is basically the opposite of what I actually thought, and I'm pretty sure it's obvious from what I wrote.
You're assuming that I can somehow hypnotize people and implant ideas into their head by saying the opposite of what I want them to think?
Also, VP was the first one to originate the phrase "harmful to town" in post 73 when talking about cow's question. I only reused it because I was trying to be exact and refer to his wording.
Basically your whole idea here is ridiculous on more than one level.
All my reasons which I have explained in more detail stem from the one-liner. You can see how that's true. I didn't have time to do more than that at the time when I wrote the post. Maybe I could have written a few more sentences, but I didn't think it was really necessary, as I thought your behavior was obviously scummy.pesco wrote: Your one-liner reason for voting me can hardly be called sufficient for telling everyone what your thought process was. And why should it take a long time for you to post was is clearly obvious to your thinking? If you see something so glaringly wrong, you surely can't be so slow as to require more than a minute to point it out and say so. Posts take time when you want to put heavy thoughts into choosing your words and framing your questions. I see your point of view on me and I don't feel it could have been such an intensive exercise to say what you felt right there and then.Talk nerdy to me.
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Let's see if you find these worthy of a response:Pesco47 wrote:
I didn't see a question worth responding to.e_k wrote:I notice Pesco did not respond to my post 138.
1)I pointed out that VP originated the phrase "harmful to town" about cow. I repeated it in an effort to be precise. Does that change your view of my use of the phrase? Do you still think I was trying to brainwash the other players by repeating the phrase?
2)How can I be trying to make people think cow is harmful to town, if my questions are attacking the accuracy of the statement?
3)Can you link me to some outside material about this psycholinguist phenomenon you are describing?Talk nerdy to me.
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QFT? Really?X wrote:
QFT.image wrote:
"...But until then I'll just leave my vote on Pesco in case someone decides to hammer and I get to help a mislynch while distancing myself from the wagon a bit."Moriarty147 wrote:Not sure if pesco is still the most scummy at the moment. Hascow and PP both need a re-investigation. Will post again when I've had some actual sleep.
I didn't think moriarty's post was that bad. Moriarty basically said he's sucpicious of some other people besides pesco, but not sure they're more scummy yet.
image is putting words in moriarty's mouth that are WIFOM at best.
Also, I think image (and X) are being super harsh to moriarty for keeping a vote on pesco just because moriarty is not SURE pesco is the MOST scummy anymore. OBV moriarty still thinks pesco is scummy.
A slight waver in confidence doesn't seem like such a big deal.
Moriarty was guessing that Pesco is town? Where do you get that? Do you mean image?X wrote:
It was a hypothetical. Moriatory could be scummy for this, assuming that Pesco is Town (which was what Moriatory was guessing).Sotty7 wrote:One, looking at Vi's vote count Pesco was at lynch -2 so that would have to be a couple of quick votes.
And two, how do you know it will be a mislynch?
If you meant moriarty, you're putting words in his mouth even more. Just because he said he wasn't SURE that pesco was still the most scummy, that IN NO WAY means that moriarty thought pesco is town.Talk nerdy to me.
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Empking doesn't have a post restriction. He's always like this. Haven't you ever played with him before? I have seen him make similarly useless/nonsensical comments as both town and scum. I would prefer him as a fallback lynch. Our battery power is going down pretty fast, so if we absolutely can't agree on some of the scummier people, then I say we go for empking. Otherwise, I think we have bigger fish to fry.
I would prefer a lynch of
1)Pesco
2)image
3)X
Pesco's outs someone at L-1 on page 4, and the psycholinguistics stuff is nonsense, and he refused the address my questions once and then disappeared. The VLA may be totally innocent, but the refusal to answer my questions and continue the convo still stands. Plus tried to set up that one or both of me and VP Baltar must be scum. Which is getting close to setting up lynches.
image for putting words in moriarty's mouth.
X for QFTing image putting words in moriarty's mouth and also answering sotty's question directed to image.
I am somewhat suspicious of Juls and how she seems to prefer lynching empking over pesco. First by voting empking over pesco when they both voted VP Baltar, and I think pesco's vote was worse. And now by returning to empking when nothing is resolved with pesco. (Although, I understand the impulse to keep challenging other players when pesco is VLA... we don't want to just twiddle our thumbs. So maybe that's what juls is doing.).
Anyway, I see a possible connection between image and X, and also a connection between pesco and juls. Also FL possible connection to pesco/juls, for similar reasons as I see juls with pesco. This is sort of unimportant until one of these people pops up scum. I don't present it as evidence against any of them, but just for later use if it becomes pertinent.Talk nerdy to me.
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I was gone yesterday at a baby shower, so I haven't read everything in detail. Lynching a claimed miller who said lots of weird role-related things during the day is probably a good move, especially since PP didn't give flavor, and when he did, he only said backstreet boys. If he didn't have anything to hide, he should have said backstreet boys from the beginning, and also should have put his lyrics up when asked for flavor. Anyway, it's done now.Talk nerdy to me.
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When was cow a hypocrite?Empking wrote:
If your reason is a joke then its not a reason.forbiddanlight wrote:
I already did yesterday.
Give reasons.
Lack of contribution, no attempts at scumhunting, failure to yield, putting funny hats on statues...
Has: You for hypocrisy and EK for reasons I can't recall.
Why are you suspecting me if you can't remember why?
I've played with empking a lot lately and he's always this brief and annoying, but he's not even making sense now.
vote empkingTalk nerdy to me.
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Empking, you dodged my questions.elvis_knits wrote:
When was cow a hypocrite?Empking wrote:
If your reason is a joke then its not a reason.forbiddanlight wrote:
I already did yesterday.
Give reasons.
Lack of contribution, no attempts at scumhunting, failure to yield, putting funny hats on statues...
Has: You for hypocrisy and EK for reasons I can't recall.
Why are you suspecting me if you can't remember why?
I've played with empking a lot lately and he's always this brief and annoying, but he's not even making sense now.
vote empkingTalk nerdy to me.
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Don't you think you might want to go back and try to figure out why you thought I was suspicious before you throw mud around?
How are we supposed to know you actually found me suspicious if you don't give reasons?Talk nerdy to me.
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Juls --
How did you go from being sure empking was scum and wanting him dead, to thinking he's probably a jester and maybe we shouldn't lynch him?
As you said, you thought of the jester possibility before, so why did it change your mind now?
I think it would be a really bad move to let a superscummy player off the hook on the CHANCE they might be a jester. Where is the strategy in that? Let them live the whole game, making scummy plays and continue excusing that horrible behavior?Talk nerdy to me.
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I agree on this read of image. I didn't like him putting words in moriarty's mouth yesterday either, and this post of his reminds me of the problems I saw there. There is that element of sarcasm that is strange. I am all in favor of humor, but when you don't do much or any scum hunting besides making jokes, then it's suspicious.hasdgfas wrote:image wrote:I too am suspicious of Elvis for reasons Empking can't recall; this seems like a very iron-clad case, and I'm wondering why Elvis hasn't been lynched yet.[/sarcasm]
I'm leery of an Empking lynch because he hasn't done anything scummy; more generally, he hasn't done anything. It seems like it is going to give the scum a free ride through day two. That being said, Empking, if you're going to continue playing like this (or not playing, as the case may be) then you will be a necessary lynch today. So please, if you are town, be more helpful.
*TWEEEEEEET*
SCUMMY POST ALERT.
First off, we have the /sarcasm tag. While I understand that people use this, I always find it scummy, because one thing that I've found is that subconsciously, scum want to tell you they're scum, and will say something only scum would say, but hide it as a joke.
However, that pales compared to the second part. Full wishy-washiness on Empking. "empking's not scummy, but he's also not town because he's not here. oh, and empking, be helpful if you're town. This entire post REEKS of scum hinting to their buddy that they have to bus them, or at the very least, scum trying to act town by telling the town lurker to be more helpful.
vote: image
Also, image makes a joke at empking's expense, playing off how scummy empking is being, and then goes on to say how he's not really suspicious of empking. The sarcastic joke acknowledges how scummy empking is being, BUT then image says how he doesn't want to lynch empking. That doesn't make sense.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Also, I have no idea who image IS suspicious of. He doesn't seem to be looking for scum. If you're going to try to stop the lynch of the highest vote getter, you should have a better idea of who to lynch. Or at least some idea. image isn't having any ideas.Talk nerdy to me.
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Sounds like what you're doing too.Empking wrote:
I think the way she's playing she's trying to protect herself while on a town bandwagon.elvis_knits wrote:Empking, do you have a reason for voting juls or are you just voting her in hopes of saving yourself?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I don't know juls is town. I am actually suspicious of her too. But I think your vote for her is just because she's the other leading wagon, and you're trying to protect yourself. You voted her but only gave reasons after I askedTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I've played with tubby before. I consider him a gut player, and not a bad one at that. I agree that he should give more content/reasoning, but the above post doesn't worry me. It's normal for him. And I don't really think that he would come in and pronounce a bunch of people town if he was scum.hasdgfas wrote:
any reasons for any of that?tubby216 wrote:yah pretty much that
plus i believe cow is town, vp you are pretty much town, juls i have no idea about i have only played with her once and i have no idea how to read her, and yah thats about it.
oh forbidden sounds townish to me too
but yah empking is the scummiest to me
Or just randomly throwing it out there?
I still think we should lynch empking.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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He did provide more than one read. He only said one person he thought was scum, but he did say a few people seemed town to him.X wrote:
I don't get your last sentence.elvis_knits wrote:I've played with tubby before. I consider him a gut player, and not a bad one at that. I agree that he should give more content/reasoning, but the above post doesn't worry me. It's normal for him. And I don't really think that he would come in and pronounce a bunch of people town if he was scum.
tubby, you seriously don't have any other reads after 15 pages that you haven't been around for?
And the last sentence means that I don't see a lot scum go around pronouncing people are town. It narrows your lynching options.
As for empking's claim... I don't remember Right Said Fred. Anyone?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Lots o' problems here!Juls wrote:elvis_knits
My initial impression of ek was town. I didn't have a problem with her attack on VP. It felt genuine. But there are some things I started noticing later.
Just to condence this post ek says Pesco/Tubby, image, X, FL, Juls are possible scum. She says it isn't "evidence" but seriously come on...thats 5 of 11 possible players she sees as scum. I have further problems with the fact that Empking and VP aren't on this list and they are high on mine.elvis_knits 204 wrote:Anyway, I see a possible connection between image and X, and also a connection between pesco and juls. Also FL possible connection to pesco/juls, for similar reasons as I see juls with pesco. This is sort of unimportant until one of these people pops up scum. I don't present it as evidence against any of them, but just for later use if it becomes pertinent.
Misrep. I saw a possible connection between 2 players and a seperate connection between 3 others. I did not think they were all scum together, nor did I say that.
Also, why is 5 players too many to suspect? I know they can't all be scum, but I have to question and pressure everyone who seeme like they might be scum. What is the problem?
And I did not suspect empking at the time, but I do now. I am trying to lynch him, meanwhile you are trying everything you can to vote/lynch somebody other than empking. If empking is so high on your list of suspects, why have you just unvoted him?
It would have seemed like a more believable claim to me. I am always suspicious when people don't claim everything pertinent at the time of their claim. It is either an error of their part, or a sign that they are scum faking the claim.Juls wrote:
What would lyrics have changed?elvis_knits 252 wrote:If he didn't have anything to hide, he should have said backstreet boys from the beginning, and also should have put his lyrics up when asked for flavor. Anyway, it's done now.
So, am I the only one who thinks it's really weird how Juls long post had a bunch of parts where she attacks people for their treatment of empking (like they didn't think he was scummy when she did), but now she's voting VP and attacking the people who want empking lynched?
I could go for a Juls lynch at this point too.Talk nerdy to me.
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I agree. I think previously she was like "whenever I've played with him he's been better than this and that's all I know" [/paraphrase of my memory]Sotty7 wrote:Juls admitting she is fully aware of emp's site wide meta makes my skin crawl. Juls what do you think of emp's play today so far? Better, worse, the same as yesterday?
Also, her attack on VP is very lame.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I was just noting connections between players there. It wasn't even a scum list, and I think you are taking the quote out of context because you are treating it as my scum list when actually it was not. It had some people I was suspicious of who seemed connected to others, and I even said that it was not definitive and I was only noting it on the chance someone there comes up scum then we look at people they're connected to.Juls wrote:
It's more the fact that you have 5 players that you saw as scummy and I know that at least two I see/saw as scummy weren't on your list. If we are on completely different pages it makes me wander if we hold the same alignment.ek 412 wrote:Also, why is 5 players too many to suspect? I know they can't all be scum, but I have to question and pressure everyone who seeme like they might be scum. What is the problem?
Also like Sotty said, just because our suspects don't match shouldn't make you think I'm scum. It should be deeper than that, based on my reasoning or something.
I don't understand the reasoning on VP. It seems party based on a meta of him?Juls wrote:
No, I have every intention of voting Empking if we get close to deadline. Empking is #2 on my list right now. But I think VP is scum. I unvoted Empking so that I could complete my post and decided after I want to vote VP right now.ek 412 wrote:And I did not suspect empking at the time, but I do now. I am trying to lynch him, meanwhile you are trying everything you can to vote/lynch somebody other than empking. If empking is so high on your list of suspects, why have you just unvoted him?
It's just strange for you to vote empking and call him scum, then throw doubt on the lynch talking about jesters, then revote him under pressure, then jump off again based on a weak case on VP. That is the way I see your behavior, and it reads like either you trying to save empking, or avoid blame for the lynch.Juls wrote:
Other than VP I don't think I really attacked anybody in my post. I have some mild suspicions of you but it's not like I am beating the ek drum here. I really am anxious for the reveal at the end of this game because I am baffled at how difficult it is for me to get anyone to understand my points. I feel like because I went V/LA and talked about Jesters that nothing else I say matters. But my goal here is if I do get lynched that I leave behind enough information for the town to see my intentions were sincere.ek 412 wrote:So, am I the only one who thinks it's really weird how Juls long post had a bunch of parts where she attacks people for their treatment of empking (like they didn't think he was scummy when she did), but now she's voting VP and attacking the people who want empking lynched?Talk nerdy to me.
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I'm not clear why "mild suspicion" means we shouldn't question faulty reasoning. Why does the degree of your suspicion matter here?Juls wrote:
What part of mild suspicion am I not being clear about? I am getting irritated that Sotty7 and EK are trying to make it out like I am on a witch hunt against her. When someone is on a different page then me all together they deserve a second look and watching. If I were voting her for these reasons I could understand the argument.Sotty7 wrote:This is pretty short sighted. If you and Elvis had the same alignment that doesn't automatically mean you would suspect the same people.
It is logical to think that if you suspect someone that you are thinking they might be scum. Since you are suspecting them OF being scum. It's the same thing.juls wrote:
When did I say you were scum? Seriously...the misreps in this game are overflowing. So let me get this straight. You can note suspicions and links of 5 players in one post but if I mention a suspicion of you then I am short sighted and not logical. Quite a double standard there.ek 428 wrote:Also like Sotty said, just because our suspects don't match shouldn't make you think I'm scum. It should be deeper than that, based on my reasoning or something.
I haven't noticed him doing that. I can go read more closely, but I haven't noticed it at this point.Juls wrote:
My biggest problem with VP is the way he is twisting what people are saying and molding it to fit whatever he wants to push.ek 428 wrote:I don't understand the reasoning on VP. It seems party based on a meta of him?
It doesn't matter if you promise me all day to vote empking, or even if you end up doing it. Your actions have been to try to divert the empking wagon on several occasions. Revoting him will not make those actions go away.Juls wrote:
Maybe you will understand it if I say it in a different colorek 428 wrote:It's just strange for you to vote empking and call him scum, then throw doubt on the lynch talking about jesters, then revote him under pressure, then jump off again based on a weak case on VP. That is the way I see your behavior, and it reads like either you trying to save empking, or avoid blame for the lynch.but I am going to have this conversation about VP and you and Sotty misrepresenting everything I say because I think it is important for people to see this after since you guys have set up my lynch for tomorrow.I will vote Empking if we get close to deadline...happily
BTW pink didn't show up very well in sepia.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I lack the will to get excited about mafia today (has nothing to do with this game), so I haven't read everything, just skimmed. I agree that juls is the scummiest for reasons stated yesterday. It doesn't make sense to me for her to push a lynch on emp d1 and then stall the lynch on d2, and then get back on the lynch because we pointed out her inconsistency. I also don't think her case against vp makes any sense.Talk nerdy to me.
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I have to agree that the police sounds weird. You'd think that like, the police might be an investigative role or something? Not just vanilla? So it doesn't really match up for me.
I'm not basing juls' scumminess on that, but it certainly doesn't make her any more credible, IMO.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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This is just one of the many things that seems off about juls. If she was trying to draw the kill, it was not obvious, and if it was not obvious, how did she plan to draw the night kill? I guess one of the reasons this seems bad to me is that if she's scum she would obviously know it's safe to "try to draw the night kill." Also this seems bad to me because it seems like a really WIFOM way to try to look town.hasdgfas wrote:
but I didn't say you were trying to draw the night kill.Juls wrote:Explain why a Vanilla townie trying to draw the night kill is scummy?
You claimed you were, but I don't think you were at all. You wanted to look like you were, but that's completely different.
I'm not sure I can see myself voting anyone but juls today. But I am interested in talking some more because they day hasn't gone on too long yet, and personally I haven't had enough time to be as active as I'd like.
I think juls expressed some suspicion over tubby. I'd like to hear what her reasoning is. I don't need a long drawn out case or anything, but just her basic thinking.Talk nerdy to me.
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In an effort to discuss more than just juls today, I thought I would do a read of everyone.
1. Truant replacing image N2 replacing Atticus.Finch D1
I disliked image a lot. His sarcasm combined with lack of content was very suspicios. I don't like the way image put words in moriarty's mouth at one point on D1. X QFT'ed image when image put words in moriarty's mouth.
4. Hero764 replacing forbiddanlight D2
FL was not particularly helpful or active in the game. Also defended Pesco, which I found scummy. I haven't seen enough from Hero to be able to say anything about him.
5. hasdgfas
His posts are pretty short but I find myself agreeing with him a lot.
6. Juls
This has been covered ad nauseum. I think she's scummy.
7. tubby216 replacing Pesco47 D2 replacing Lindisfarne D1
Tubby is living up to his meta. He recently made a comment about how he doesn't like to explain things because he always makes himself look scummy. I'd consider it way more scummy for him to stop explaining himself, especially since now he has floated the excuse makes it easier.
Oh, and also I had a big problem with Pesco, and how she tried to say my attack on VP was scummy while she put VP at L-1.
Tubby on his own is not that worrisome to me, but I have lingering suspicions on Pesco.
10. Sotty7
I agree with many things she says and I basically find her townie, although I agree that at times she hasn't participated too much.
11. VP Baltar
After our first tango, VP hasn't stood out as scummy to me.
12. X
The only problem I have with him as how he agreed with image when image made a scummy comment.
So, overall, my suspicions are mostly on:
Juls
Truant/image
With lingering suspicions on the replaced players for these:
Tubby/Pesco
Hero/FL (With possible connection to Tubby/Pesco from FL defending Pesco).
And X for having a possible connection to Truant/imageTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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WIFOM to the rescue!juls wrote:I think scum would have self-hammered already.
I didn't get online this weekend, and it looks like nothing much happened anyway. I thought my comments might help get a little more discussion going but I guess it's hard when we're all so intent on juls.
I'm ready to hammer... unless people want to talk more.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Based on what we know now, I guess I am more looking at tubby/pesco and Hero/FL. tubby is mostly just being tubby, which could go either way, but I thought pesco was scummy D1, so that makes tubby scummier. Also, FL defended pesco, and Hero has done a whole lot of nothing, so I see them linked to tubby/pesco, and also scummy in their own right.elvis_knits wrote: So, overall, my suspicions are mostly on:
Juls
Truant/image
With lingering suspicions on the replaced players for these:
Tubby/Pesco
Hero/FL (With possible connection to Tubby/Pesco from FL defending Pesco).
And X for having a possible connection to Truant/image
Tubby and Hero are my top two suspects at the moment, and everyone else is pretty far behind them.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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It wasn't a defense of moriarty so much as an attack on image. It does accomplish something for town because it points out image putting words in another player's mouth. To me, that is significant since it seems pretty scummy. You don't think that it's scummy to put words in player's mouths? You think there is no town motication for pointing it out?Hero764 wrote: E_k:
Ok well, I liked E_k at first during her whole fiasco with VPB. I really stopped liking her when she defended Moriarity:
Ugh. First of all, this accomplishes nothing for town(feel free to point them, but accomplishes three things for scum: 1. E_k looks good for defending a townie, 2. She gets to distance herself from a Xscum and 3. She gets to look like she's doing stuff so no one can question her. The fact that Moriarty was NK'd seems to suggest that it might have been a plan to make E_k look better. The fact that image's initial argument made perfect sense makes this post all the stranger.e_k wrote: QFT? Really?
I didn't think moriarty's post was that bad. Moriarty basically said he's sucpicious of some other people besides pesco, but not sure they're more scummy yet.
image is putting words in moriarty's mouth that are WIFOM at best.
Also, I think image (and X) are being super harsh to moriarty for keeping a vote on pesco just because moriarty is not SURE pesco is the MOST scummy anymore. OBV moriarty still thinks pesco is scummy.
A slight waver in confidence doesn't seem like such a big deal.
Your points 1,2, and 3 are WIFOM based on you assuming I'm scum. Actually, all of that is really a made-up story of what my motivations might have been if I were scum. It's circular reasoning.
I can't help it if I agree with a what some other people said in that instance. That is actually a good thing to find places where you agree, since we are trying to find a consensus. If my only contribution to the game was useless parotting, THAT would be scummy. But I have made plenty of my own arguments.hero wrote: Other things I don't like about her:
I really don't like how she's basically restating an argument already brought up 1(or 2?) times. This is blatant bandwagoning.ek wrote: How did you go from being sure empking was scum and wanting him dead, to thinking he's probably a jester and maybe we shouldn't lynch him?
And bandwagoning is not bad if you have a reason for doing so.
I had been suspicious of image for a while, demonstrated by the part that you yourself have quoted, where I attacked him for putting words in moriarty's mouth. So I don't see why you would think my suspicion on image was somehow false or manufactured.hero wrote:
This came after a post where she agreed with an argument made against image. I'm reading this as her throwing some suspicion onto image to try and see if people will pick up and go for his lynch.ek wrote: Also, I have no idea who image IS suspicious of. He doesn't seem to be looking for scum. If you're going to try to stop the lynch of the highest vote getter, you should have a better idea of who to lynch. Or at least some idea. image isn't having any ideas.
The second quote was on day 1 when there were other stronger leads. Lots of things changed and happened to make me think empking was the best lynch at the time of the first quote. One thing that did influence my suspicions WAS that he said he was suspicious of me "for reasons he couldn't recall." It wasn't just that he was suspcious of me... it was that he didn't havehero wrote:
Yet before she said:eK wrote:I still think we should lynch empking.
I don't really see what changed. Except for the fact that Emp stated suspicions of ek. OMGUS much?ek wrote: I would prefer him as a fallback lynch. Our battery power is going down pretty fast, so if we absolutely can't agree on some of the scummier people, then I say we go for empking. Otherwise, I think we have bigger fish to fry.any reason. I don't really think that's OMGUS, since it's his reasoning (or lack thereof) that I object to.
I don't understand how it was terrible. Empking was not playing like town. I don't understand anyone thinking he was playing like town.hero wrote: The whole empking wagon in general was terrible btw. I realize not everyone on that wagon can be scum though.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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This is my simplified version. I tried to be fair when shortening Hero's points, but I may have missed something or some nuance of his meaning, so I am leaving his original words above so that anyone can refer to it and get his full meaning.Hero764 wrote:
Moriarity can defend himself. Defending him implies that you know his alignment.e_k wrote: It wasn't a defense of moriarty so much as an attack on image. It does accomplish something for town because it points out image putting words in another player's mouth. To me, that is significant since it seems pretty scummy. You don't think that it's scummy to put words in player's mouths? You think there is no town motication for pointing it out?
Your points 1,2, and 3 are WIFOM based on you assuming I'm scum. Actually, all of that is really a made-up story of what my motivations might have been if I were scum. It's circular reasoning.
And you don't seem to understand what I was getting at with the points 1 2 and 3. I was pointing out how it would help you if you were scum, not saying that's why you did it.
Bandwagoning probably wasn't the right word. I guess parroting would be better. I don't care that you agree Juls was scummy for reasons brought up by others(I thought Juls would flip scum too). You were just using someone else's argument again against her, which makes it seem like you were trying to make it seem like you were actively scumhunting while you actually weren't.I can't help it if I agree with a what some other people said in that instance. That is actually a good thing to find places where you agree, since we are trying to find a consensus. If my only contribution to the game was useless parotting, THAT would be scummy. But I have made plenty of my own arguments.
And bandwagoning is not bad if you have a reason for doing so.
Again you completely misunderstand my point. I think you're scum so obviously any suspicions would be false(unless you're bussing). The fact that you expressed suspicions of him earlier have nothing to do with this. You're trying to make image look more suspicious that people currently though to see how plausible a bandwagon would be(that's what it looked like).I had been suspicious of image for a while, demonstrated by the part that you yourself have quoted, where I attacked him for putting words in moriarty's mouth. So I don't see why you would think my suspicion on image was somehow false or manufactured.
You find this strange coming from Empking why?The second quote was on day 1 when there were other stronger leads. Lots of things changed and happened to make me think empking was the best lynch at the time of the first quote. One thing that did influence my suspicions WAS that he said he was suspicious of me "for reasons he couldn't recall." It wasn't just that he was suspcious of me... it was that he didn't have any reason. I don't really think that's OMGUS, since it's his reasoning (or lack thereof) that I object to.
Empking was playing like Empking. Believe or not, players like him who drop scumtells are actually dropping null tells, and the fact that most of you in here knew of his meta and still called him scummy for it is the terrible part.I don't understand how it was terrible. Empking was not playing like town. I don't understand anyone thinking he was playing like town.
1)
Hero: You defended moriarty, which has no town motivations, and lots of scummy ones.
Elvis: I saw a bullshit attack on moriarty, so I pointed out what was wrong with the attack. It was not dependent on moriarty's allignment. Pointing out bad attacks is a way to find scum, which is indeed pro-town.
2)
Hero: You copied people's reasons for voting juls.
Elvis: I agreed with others in that instance, but I don't have a pattern of doing that. I think for myself, but sometimes agree with people. I don't see how that is scummy.
3)
Hero: Your suspicions on image were testing the waters to see if a bandwagon would be viable.
Elvis: I don't understand this one. Why do you think I was trying to make image look more suspicious and testing the viability of a bandwagon, rather than, expressing my feelings on the guy and scum hunting? It seems like you're just ascribing motivations to me all the time which are not supported by the events, and are WIFOM at best.
4)
Elvis: Empking suspected me with "no reason."
Hero: Why does that bother you?
Elvis: People have to have reasons behind their suspicions. If they don't they are likely manufactured suspicions. And if people don't explain their reasons, you can't judge their allignment. That's handicapping the town. It's scummy.
5)
Hero: Empking was playing scummy, but he's always like that, and you should know that.
Elvis: I do know empking's meta, but I also know he actually is scum part of the time. So I try to question him to the best of my ability, and judge his allignment even though I know it's hard because of his playstyle. I am not willing to give him a free pass in every game. That would be stupid. I don't want to lynch him every game either, but I have to err on the side of caution, especially since he's not helpful anyway even when he's town.Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I think cow should claim targets.
If you guys want me to claim while we wait for him, I will, but I think people should give targets when they claim, if applicable.Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I'm Madonna, Hider. My song is "Live to Tell." If I hide with a mafia member or soneone targetted for a kill, I die. If I hide with a pro-town person who isn't targetted for a kill, I live.
I hid with sotty N1 and N2, and VP N3. I was trying to hide with people I thought were town, and since I didn't die, I know VP and sotty are town. When I lived the first night, I decided to hide with sotty again to increase my chance of survival. Then last night I decided I should go somewhere else since it could confirm another player if I lived. I've tried to say I thought these two players were town throughout the game, to give some idea of my choices/intended choices.
I thought that I had a good chance of being the target N1 since there was no kill. Now it looks like it might have also been sotty, protected by cow if he's telling the truth. And I don't really doubt him. I *think* hider resolves first usually, so I think I would have been jailkept too? I'll see if the mod can specify order of actions for me. I was not given any notifcations at any point other than my actions were received.
It doesn't matter to me who goes next of sotty or VP. I know they're both town. Maybe whoever is here, since ther is a lot of VLA?Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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