Mini 790- Skywalker Mafia: Game Over

[Sajin]

/confirm

[Sajin]

vote ZazieR

For making me replace you.

[Sajin]

Zazier, your a doctor that half the time protects half the time kills that can only say the first syllable of each word AND can only hammer?

What does "are you en?" mean?

@TheAdmiral Do you have something against the RVS? What is with that claim on page 1?

[Sajin]

@Zazier I am not from England. I wonder what would make you think so though.

Question: Are you sure there is 1 doctor? Could there be 2? None?

[Sajin]

I think I might be the other miller can't quite tell from my role info though.

unvote; vote MafiaSSK

[Sajin]

I was voting for MafiaSSK because of his wishy washy claim. It looked like he was setting himself up to claim miller if we investigated him. The chocolate thing is cool and makes me want to take my vote off him, but the no win condition bugs me too. Care to clarify Mafia?

@Zazier, single digit wise only the number seven has more than 1 syllable. Space out your numbers and type "sev" for seven. I apologize in advance for not responding to ying, will try though.

[Sajin]

Interesting. I think MafiaSSK is definately chocolate, no question about that. I still question his grab onto the miller claim as well as that funky communication with azhri. How could he share things with 2 completely different roles? Yet confirm himself to one?

@Thead/Zaz: Perhaps its me being paranoid but I just finished Majora's Mask Mafia which had a scum who started with a mask that made him/her always guilty to investigations. The mod was present in that game so I figured it a possibility. MafiaSSK did not fake it at least (we know this because of mod warnings), so hes either town or neutral to me I suppose.

[Sajin]

Last time I looked this game was not bastardized, but I suppose it is. Leave it up to a bastard mod to do that.

@Zaz: Informational purposes for the moment. I understand you cannot vote, but where would you be voting if you could? Could you FoS or something please so we know where you stand on certain issues?

@Mafia- Is there anything that could confirm your alignment or Thead's allignment that we could know? I mean could goon's be chocolate too?

[Sajin]

Clearly stated is asking for a bunch of violations. I am cool with unclear as I am curious as well.


@Mod, plz note sig, if this is a problem PM me.

[Sajin]

I am fairly certain zaz is town. Nothing but helpful comments and a post restriction with counted violations. I am not sure how lynching someone you think is town gets you much more information than we had to start with. Would we not get more information from lynching a claim? If those "millers" sit there till lynch/lose and some of us think they could be scum they will sit there till the end of the week with at least some investigative roles being quite useless on them.

fos Azheri

Wanting to lynch someone you do not think could be scum, is scummy.

[Sajin]

placing anti-town and opportunistic votes does not guarantee scum, especially when I change my mind (I know I'm good but probably not amazing enough to frequently name all 3 [presumably there are 3, perhaps not] scum players just like that). All you've quoted just looks like I've been extremely consistent to me. I called them out for it at the time and it's still the scummiest thing to me, especially in regards to finding Sting the scummiest.

Well yes I voted for a miller claim. I provided my reasoning as to such, and I have yet to see you address that post. Another hole in your argument is that you yourself voted for a miler claim at one point. Was that not opportunistic by the same token?

[Sajin]

173 and 427.

[Sajin]

Unvote

I don't necessarily support the MafiaSSK bandwagon, his divergent/differently phrased win condition then insistence I paraphrase mine seems legitimate.

It's not Zakeri's fault she has a PR, although it is

very

annoying

Sting and Zironigous and Sajin have all placed anti-town and opportunistic votes. Sting was first so I'll

Vote: Sting

You do realize you unvoted a miller claim in your SAME post as you blanket posted, yes?

Saying whether or not there are cops in this setup is a completely WIFOM response to the argument at hand.

[Sajin]

mod, how are replacements coming?

[Sajin]

Well, this day has gone on forever....this sucks. We really need replacements. Not getting any information from 3 people is very damaging.

I have already expressed options against ortolan. Add to the case that he did not really address my point about the millars. He says voting the millars is bad and yet calls one scum as soon as he voted for him. He has called....6 people scummy today I think in total? That is the definition of leaving your options open.

vote; Ortolan

[Sajin]

unvote

Ortolan, your scum hunting method is incredibly ineffective if you think everyone but you is scum. So who you think is NOT scum. Maybe that will help us.

I find it incredibly odd that you claimed the role that zazier said existed yet wanted to lynch her. What was up with that? You must of known she was telling the truth.

[Sajin]

The problem is, the reason for why I am scum. Isn't actually for seeming scummy. Just not being seen as pro-town, which often gets you lynched anyway.

Then fix the problem? Who do you see as scum?

[Sajin]

I think its 1 per 5. So it takes the full complement to lynch here.

Admiral where have you gone?

Also Looker, you replaced in and no comments still?

Ortolon you change your opinions more often then any girl I know (and that is saying something).

Millar is not scummy. But I would like him to contribute more.

[Sajin]

I believe millar is maf' that hides behind the opinions of others. He has not made any original suspicions or even tried to announce material that is noteworthy. Typically, scum would like to avoid direct conversation and not address anyone by name so that they can avoid the spotlight; increasing the probability that a townie is under heat and lynched D1. I'm still comfortable with my vote, if I'm honest.

And, no, I don't have proof of you being obv-scum, but based on the same quasi-indirectness, I suspect Sir for the same. I'll be honest and say that I'd be assured of Sir being maf' if millar flips scum. This is not to imply that I'm setting up a chain-lynch, but I'd personally look more at Sir than anyone else if millar is indeed maf'.

Have you played with millar/ know his meta?

[Sajin]

Well since the deadline is tomorrow I support the only lynch we have a chance of getting.

vote millar13

Zazier- Are you trying to draw correlations between comments on how to use an insane doctor? My only question is, if we had a choice would we like him to be a vig or a doctor?

[Sajin]

I assume you mean post restriction by PR correct?

[Sajin]

@Kreiov- Does your small Italian town have a name? Does is start with "V"?

[Sajin]

@Zazier I still think its quite possible a miller claim is scum. Yes I thought millar13 was town. I do not see any contradictions in this line of thinking. Explain how you can suspect me for the same thing that you yourself did though. Kind of hypocritic.

@Kreriov- Are you Mr Kemp?

@KOC Why do people with useful 1 shot roles want to waste them? Well, its useless now so we may as well try to salvage a lesser use of it

vote KoC

[Sajin]

I think Knight and I cross posted. As I mentioned, it sure sounded to me like a Star Wars theme in my PM. About the only thing not 'Star Warsy' in my PM was the fact it said I was in a small Italian town. None of the stuff makes much sense to me outside of a possible Star Wars or at least sci-fi context.

As I mentioned above, if anyone would like me to try and better expand on my role/abilities then I will try to do so as best I can. I am tempted to try and do so anyway, as I now am no longer sure about some of the things I had read. There are a few very specific parts, such as me being absolutely sure I am immune to the Doc's protections. There are some I am less sure about now

Here Kreriov says He is in an italian town as well as being immune to the doc. He has previously claimed that he was immune to both functions of the doc so I think he is not killable at night.

He traveled throughout the world, going to Africa, China, Brazil, Japan, Spain, and Italy. Of course, Italy was the one that would dominate the rest of his life.

In Italy Kemp, intended to learn the language and customs in three to four months before returning to the United States. He spent his time sightseeing, enjoying himself at the awe-inspiring Vatican, the beautiful castle of Milan, and the winding canals of Vienna. At last he decided to visit Valetea, a small island just off the southern coast of Italy. It seemed tranquil at first, almost likeable, but these observations failed to run through his mind at the sight of her.


“My name is Jonathan Kemp. I’m a traveler, so to speak”

This is flavor from Zwet that says Johnathan Kemp was last known to be in an italian town (well island technically, town is implied with the later on store section). This is cuts from the opening post.

Fitfully turning in his sleep, Kemp jumped at the gunshot screaming through his window. He turned in a flash to see a scrawled note attached to the lead that almost ended his life. He read: As you have survived this bullet, we deem you worthy to join our ranks. Meet us tonight at the garden. Kemp smiled, loaded the bullet into his own gun, and walked out of the house, never again to see the light of forgiveness.

The obituaries read:

Azhrei, Vanilla Townie....................Killed Night 1

Slicey will be your backup mod during my absence. Begin Day 2!

The flavor at the start of the day. I think it is quite clear that johnathan kemp was turned to the mafia last night. That explains the flavor here and the reasons for no kill appearing. Scum tried to kill kreriov and gained a new mafia member in him instead of a death. I do not know what kreriov started as (If I had to wager a guess, neutral) but now he is scum.

unvote

so that a weird lynch cannot end the day.

vote: Kreriov

KoC, please do not do your crazy hammer thing until more people see this ok?

I would also add that I think Ortolan really did kill Az and he was meant to be the one able to turn Kreriov to town. I do not think it can be reversed due to flavor text of my 3rd quote. Therefore I think kreriov is the main character of this mini with powers and is scum and should die immediately. The only other possibility I could see is him being a serial killer of some sort. "Giving up the light of forgiveness" seems pretty anti town to me and the "join our ranks" part indicates mafia not SK.

Also, it makes sense that he is a traveler from another universe such as Star Wars and that is why he has what unclaimed flavor he has in his PM but that part of the theory is much weaker than the above.

[Sajin]

Feel free to fill in the blanks and connect the dots then if you wish. The trail still leads to you. Care to give us any more of your flavor?

[Sajin]

linky to Mask - post 1471 is the mask description, look for Garo

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1450

What I found very funny about this link is that this is the EXACT page where I caught a serial killer BASED ON FLAVOR yet you still want to throw my theory out the door. If Kreriov dies as mafia, Siro is likely his partner.

[Sajin]

I don''t like this post.

First of all, the assumption about Krer''s role. It''s also serious fishing.
Secondly, Krer thought this was a Star Wars themed game. That seems very unlikely to assume if your name in the role PM is Jonathan Kemp.
Third, you''re attacking him based upon that he said that his flavour mentions an Italian town. Later, he asks if I and Orto have flavour. I say that I have a little, which mentions also an Italian town. How come you didn''t ask others about their flavour first?
And last, you''re arguments are contradictory:

He has previously claimed that he was immune to both functions of the doc so I think he is not killable at night

That explains the flavor here and the reasons for no kill appearing. Scum tried to kill kreriov and gained a new mafia member in him instead of a death.

The first and the last points I have just mentioned are very scummy.

Glad you don't like it. I still think he is scummy. And he heavily implied that his role PM showed him as neutral, at least to start.

How are those arguments contradictory (He is immune to kills and the first faction to try and kill him converts him to their side?) Assumption? Sure. Contradictory? No.

[Sajin]

Well, that sure is alot of speculation there Sajin. I am not Jack Kemp. I already revealed my character and role. Instead of trying to make something out of nothing, go back and look The Italian town thing is right from my pm and directly correlates to me talking about my lack of an explicite win condition.

You may be right that I am neutral.

I do not know, but do not believe so. When I am told I was passing through an Italian town, sensed the evil there, and decide I must help the town, well, I just assumed I win with the town. Let me know if you think otherwise that means something else

[Sajin]

He has previously claimed that he was immune to both functions of the doc so I think he is not killable at night

In this quote, you''re implying that he can''t be killed during the night. Each night.

That explains the flavor here and the reasons for no kill appearing. Scum tried to kill kreriov and gained a new mafia member in him instead of a death.

Here, you imply one night.

There''s the part that''s contradictory.

Thats not contradictory. Its perfectly possible for him to not be killable every night and for him to not be killable on one certain night. I did not limit it to 1 night on the second quote.

[Sajin]

Could the admiral, KoC, MafiaSSK, Ortolan, Siro and kise weigh in on my post about kreriov? Thanks.

Plausible or not plausible and why. And if not plausible please explain quoted flavor text. Thanks.

[Sajin]

@TheAd- Who? and Why?

Also you and Kreriov both mentioned

Jack

Kemp while the opening post mentions a

Johnathan

Kemp. Are we talking about 2 people here? Or just the 1?

@Kise- So if Zazier or Krieov were recruited to the mafia you would trust them 100 percent. Noted. I am asking for reasons here not incredibly vague statements that confuse more. I still want to know if you think this situation is plausible or if you have another one in mind.

[Sajin]

I am trying to vote Kemp. If that is not you, who is it? I have tried to show why I think its likely you. Do you have a better lead on who it is?

[Sajin]

No, I do not. Of course, I am more concerned with your lying and misrepresentation of things I have said than with your wild speculations.

Your the one that brought up you could be neutral. I fail to see where I have lied. I may have unknowingly misrepresented you. You agreed with my logic not but 1 page ago yet your unwilling to help me explain the flavor text and lack of a kill. Your the most likely to be Kemp out of anyone here. Scum hunt or be lynched.

[Sajin]

Thats not scum hunting, thats OMGUS. You have been scum with me before, you should know how I play as scum better than anyone here. Of course that also means I know how you play as scum. You have been breadcrumbing and only counterattacking just as you did before.

[Sajin]

Thats not scum hunting, thats OMGUS. You have been scum with me before, you should know how I play as scum better than anyone here. Of course that also means I know how you play as scum. You have been breadcrumbing and only counterattacking just as you did before.

How is it OMGUS?

He only posted stuff about me after I attacked him. Either he is johnathan kemp and wants me off his case and is trying to get me to back down or he knows who it is.

Fitfully turning in his sleep, Kemp jumped at the gunshot screaming through his window. He turned in a flash to see a scrawled note attached to the lead that almost ended his life. He read: As you have survived this bullet, we deem you worthy to join our ranks. Meet us tonight at the garden. Kemp smiled, loaded the bullet into his own gun, and walked out of the house, never again to see the light of forgiveness.

The obituaries read:

Azhrei, Vanilla Townie....................Killed Night 1

Slicey will be your backup mod during my absence. Begin Day 2!

@Kise- never to see the light of forgiveness is incredibly protown sounding. Right.

Sajin's logic is correct even if his assumtion is wrong. I can be night killed I just do not understand why, if I were immune to night kills, it follows I am scum. I just see all this wild speculation followed by mischaracterizations and see scum.

If my logic is right than how am I doing any of the things you are accusing me of. I am looking for Johnathan Kemp. I asked you who you though he was, if it was indeed not you, and instead of looking for him when you agreed with my logic that he is scum, you instead come after me. I ask you again,

Who is Johnathan Kemp if it is not you?

Btw, would you really advocate no lynch day 1?

@Mod Can we get prods going please?

[Sajin]

Ortolan and Siro was it.

[Sajin]

@Zaz- http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10959, Kreriov and I as scum and the meta I referenced. He is the mafia roleblocker and breadcrumbs jailkeeper a couple of times.

[Sajin]

I have not lied. I may have misrepresented you calling you johnathan Kemp over the faction that converted him. Other than that though, I think I hit a sore spot.

@Kise- Yes I have a name.

[Sajin]

@Sajin

You still haven''t responded to this:

Whom of ThAd and SSK do you think is most likely scum and why?
You said that Millar wasn't scummy. But you gave no defence and you gave no opinion on who you thought was scum. Both could have prevented the lynch of Millar. Please explain why you didn't try to prevent the lynch.

Did you read day 1? I gave an opinion on that very topic. Iso me. (MafiaSSK, nacht)

[Sajin]

@Kise- I was trying to figure out who kemp was. Do you have any idea who kemp is? Yes or no?

Also, yes lynching a vanilla townie (read non informational/power role) provides more information to us then a no lynch. Its always better to lynch then no lynch except to consider endgame scenarios.

[Sajin]

Not sure what the point of a dawn is.

[Sajin]

I think zazier is more scummy then kise. Due to flavor, he is likely kemp.

[Sajin]

How do I not fit in the waiting for response category with my comment?

[Sajin]

I'm back, that is if I can still play here.

My vote would most definitely be on Kise if he wasn't going to be at L-1.

@SSK - do you think Kise lied about his action?

Quite possibly but he may not be scum because of it.

Can you explain what you mean here?

How do you feel about lynch all liars?

[Sajin]

Well I think Zazier is the obvious scum here, I think Kise is scum because of events yesterday but I want SSK's opinion about lynch all liars. We need discussion.

[Sajin]

Are you all forgetting this:

My power is redirection. Anyone who targets me is instead redirected to whomever I choose (ZazieR in this case). How in the hell does anyone watching ZazieR see me do anything?

Explain how this makes sense.

Then explain this.

Because it makes no sense why they would see Kise targetting you. It's basically like saying you were at Zazier's house but while you were watching Zazier Kise had a sign redirecting all actions to you. You couldn't notice that if you were at Zazier's house.

SSK- Is Kise lieing or not in your opinion? You have taken both stances in the thread as to why he may not be scum. In fact because of the "cake and eat it too defense", I think your likely scum with him.

[Sajin]

Actually, what is a replacement even going to do? He is going to either say what kise said yesterday and say there must of been some gambit or he is going to give us different results that we are then supposed to take at face value?

He will be just as scummy as before.

[Sajin]

Do you have new results?

[Sajin]

Sigh.... I had hoped for better

Vote: Kise

[Sajin]

I wanted to see who you would also blame as scum to try and get a clear for tomorrow.

Or an explanation of a gambit of some sort. But you tried to say your report was legit and you did not automatically vote zazier. That screamed scumpartner to me.

[Sajin]

I meant to say, the combination of your report being legit and you not voting zazier. I fail at editing.

[Sajin]

Well I think Zazier is the obvious scum here, I think Kise is scum because of events yesterday but I want SSK's opinion about lynch all liars. We need discussion.

Add now also your last post where you state that you think SSK is likely scum with Kise. Yet, no vote. Why is that?

Sigh.... I had hoped for better

Vote: Kise

Why the sudden vote without discussing what Kise had said first?

Starbuck what do you think of the alignment behind the above 2 quotes?

[Sajin]

I wanted to see who you would also blame as scum to try and get a clear for tomorrow.

Or an explanation of a gambit of some sort. But you tried to say your report was legit and you did not automatically vote zazier. That screamed scumpartner to me.

I thought I stated the answer to this above. To clarify- I viewed Kise as trying to protect zazier as he was doing yesterday in my opinion. If his report was legit it should of proven zazier scum and he did not suspect him enough nor voted. Starbuck answer my question please.

Regardless, if I am killed off tonight please lynch Zazier. She is obv scum.

[Sajin]

I think I have. Reguardless, your scum. If someone else wants me to answer a question I will.


How does the bolded not make sense? You claimed you were killed. Kemp was converted by bullet. Therefore his report must have been faked or he KNEW about the nightkill.

[Sajin]

What words did I even attempt to twist? I was clarifying my logic for you. Sheesh.

[Sajin]

Easy. I killed Kreriov. Which was nexus redirected to zazier.

Kise saw kreriov's nexus.

Since I killed Kreriov and I was informed that zazier joined my faction by PM, I knew exactly what had happened.

N2- I bet the following- Orolan becomes sane
Siro kills ortolan
Kise watches KoC.

[Sajin]

Technically it was possible for town not to be endgamed. If we had submited a kill on starbuck then it would of been 4v3 still.

But this assumes: that we kill starbuck
a successful hide
and a dodge of my execution (which would not have been on KoC)

[Sajin]

I was paranoid that siro was backwards recruit able. That was the reason for all the attempts to look town yesterday despite the lynch.



Since the cop was really a mafia role the millers claiming helped.

[Sajin]

I think it would been fine you seeing either kreriov or myself in that circumstance but not both.

Sure though I think it would of been fine if you would of seen me. But seeing both would make zero sense.

True that watching me would probably be 1 town lynch then 1 scum lynch rather than 2 town lynches.

[Sajin]

Also I would say that you would of seen me if you had targeted kreriov just fine.

[Sajin]

I had reason!

Siro, zwett ran a similar game on another forum.

http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic ... icID=28132

roles:

http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic ... e=7#276258

I don't think I was the only one who saw this based on the fact that someone voted the mod as a test vote. (which DID something in aforementioned game)

I had sole control over the mafia kill which I interpreted to mean that my goon was a traitor as described above.

Don't worry, this information hurt me more than it helped.

[Sajin]

See? I had reason.

[Sajin]

Initially not part of the mafia meetings but knew she was a traitor. If you were to target her I am not sure if she would of became town or if she would just be unrecruitable.

[Sajin]

Eh, we were lucky with night actions. Ortolan could vig me down, we could of lynched siro day 1, and zazier would be stuck with no night kill.

[Sajin]

We had a incredibly fortuitous night 1 which made is seem mafia (land)slided.

It could of just as easily went the other way as Kreriov kise ortolan the millers all confirm each other and zazier becomes town.

I think the setup was balanced but somewhat swingy.