Mini 790- Skywalker Mafia: Game Over

[ortolan]

more /confirmed than you

[ortolan]

Hai guyz

ThAdmiral- I intend to treat you the way I've seen suggested for millers and which I like- lynch if you act scummy

Have you ever claimed miller as scum previously?

[ortolan]

What are you talking about Zazier?

[ortolan]

^^^

[ortolan]

No vote from me this time. I can on

ly

ham

mer

Hmm. Well that objectively would be a bit scummy but I know zwet was in Sushi Mafia where someone fakeclaimed that role so I wouldn't be surprised if he included it.

Yeah And it ir

ritates

me as I have to check e

ach

word...

I haven't been able to translate your other posts. I am really struggling to see the pattern.

[ortolan]

Millar is a player, miller is a role

What don't you like about it?

[ortolan]

The doc in this game is in, but I am not the doc

How do you know this?

Don't know what word the "con" is in 49, could you use a shorter synonym?

[ortolan]

in = ? (in one syllable )

[ortolan]

@ortalan - because it was way to early for TheAdmiral to be claiming a role and typically millers are not told they are millers, correct?

Let's see what ThAdmiral has to say

[ortolan]

ZazieR- if this information is true what did you hope to gain by sharing it with town?

[ortolan]

fair enough, claim sounds plausible, especially in a zwet-modded game

[ortolan]

My role has a rather specific win condition, I suggest you clarify with zwet what yours is.

Thats assuming a 2nd miller claim. By the time we get there hopefully we'll have more information/interactions to examine. Not just lynch a miller straightaway. That said, I don't mind an Admiral lynch.

Why is that?

I think I might be the other miller can't quite tell from my role info though.

unvote; vote MafiaSSK

Explain.

Does anyone know what modding experience zwet has- like is the first mini theme he has modded- has he modded a mini normal or other mini theme previously? I'm just curious for mEta-gaming purposes.

ThAdmiral I would also like to know if you are in possession of a "power role" (or as MafiaSSK calls it if you are "chocolate").

[ortolan]

It is his first mi theme here, but he has run o games at a site.

Does anyone know if he had the setup reviewed? Otherwise it may well be breakable.

I believe what this means is that for every violations you make, you will require one less vote to be lynched.

For example, say you start at 7 votes to lynch, and you make 10 post violations, you will only require 5 votes to lynch.

Yes but in this case as zwet he explained she needs to violate her PR five times just to have the votes to lynch dropped by one.

[ortolan]

yer I can imagine

[ortolan]

yer interesting, I'm just a bit skeptical of four pro-town roles being able to confirm each other by the contents of their role pm-

you and the doc and the two millers

[ortolan]

wow way to give me the one with homosexual connotations how about "ort" instead?

[ortolan]

Eh?
Di

ctating

the scum kill is new to me...

Agreed. ThAd should know better.

If... we lynch ThAd and he's town, we confirm MafiaSSK as town - the whole chocolate townie role.

Or scum just night-kill him and we're down two townies with no benefit

[ortolan]

what is it (paraphrasiN')?

[ortolan]

paraphrase your win condition as requested please SSK

[ortolan]

that is different to my win condition

Unvote
Vote: MafiaSSK

[ortolan]

you didn't need to, that is still different from my win condition

[ortolan]

What is it roughly?

[ortolan]

I think yours is the same as mine Azhrei.

Mine implies there is only one anti-town faction who must all no longer be living in order for me to win

fake edit: actually if there were multiple mafias then there might still be multiple factions

[ortolan]

Unvote

I don't necessarily support the MafiaSSK bandwagon, his divergent/differently phrased win condition then insistence I paraphrase mine seems legitimate.

It's not Zakeri's fault she has a PR, although it is

very

annoying

Sting and Zironigous and Sajin have all placed anti-town and opportunistic votes. Sting was first so I'll

Vote: Sting

[ortolan]

wow I think I thought you were the same person as Zakeri the whole time LoL

they are all voting for the millers for cross-confirming each other, which means at best we will simply be wasting a day/night cycle and quite possibly being two townies down.

[ortolan]

presumably changed it to bastard mafia or something

in regards to the cross-confirms, I'm inclined to believe at least some of them are false because otherwise we'd find ourselves in a broken setup.

I'm only lynching for scummy behaviour. I do need to re-read though then I'll come up with a vote, or I may be voting already (whoever that scumbag was who wanted to lynch the two millers).

[ortolan]

That didn't exactly answer the questions, ZazieR.

I guess since I find MafiaSSK more suspect, I find you wanting to lynch ThAdmiral first a bit suspicious. Its almost like you are trying to set up a scenario in which you establish that one must be lying so if we lynch one and he flips towns, we then should lynch the other.

How can I an those ques, when I can on know what an I would give if it hap in con? There are

many

fac in. So I can not ans these ques.

I have gi rea why I think on one is scum. And I will ex why I think it is more like to be Ad than Rox af a re from a spe play.
How, what is your o of the mil? And do you think both are town, both are scum or one of them is scum, while the o is town?

Sigh... Post Violation 4

Where?
Can you bold in future regardless.

[ortolan]

Due to me knowing my role, my assumption is that player of a non-town alignment would not have a identical line in their pm.

What, you think zwet deliberately broke the game for you?

If anything, I find it more likely that after ThAdmirals initial claim and then revelation of another miller that a mafia would take advantage of it by saying he is the other miller.

What, and get counter-claimed by the real miller?

Other than that, if one of these claimed millers

is definitely

going to be lynched, I'm going to say it should be ThAd - he actually has notification of another miller. If he's town, it confirms he's telling the truth - if anyone else counterclaims the other miller, I'd say lynch that person because..

a) he/she didn't come earlier when he/she had the chance like MafiaSSK did
b) he/she made us go through a whole D 1 of miller talk.

I'm not even sure it's wise ruling out that MafiaSSK is some sort of a mafia "miller" (bastard modding basically). Plus if they're both town why wouldn't the mafia just kill the other one after we lynch the first one anyway?

Which to me means that he does not have the same win con as Rox.

Didn't we already establish this doesn't necessarily mean scum?

MLLR then?

that is actually two syllables.

I wouldn't mind lynching Zaz at this point to be perfectly honest. I wouldn't put it past zwet to have made her scum (especially with an in-thread confirmed post restriction). I didn't like her calling up ThAd on a point of detail (him saying he changed flavour so that a mass-claim could break the game then her calling him out on this because zwet didn't explicitly say it was to avoid people breaking the game). I also don't like her insistence that we lynch one of the millers and if they flip town, lynch the next. That sounds like a horrid plan.

Unvote
Vote: ZazieR

perhaps millar could comply with the request of him also.

[ortolan]

Uhm, no. Rox asked later what his win con is. Zwet gave him his win con, and in this one, there is no men a be a mil ac to Rox.
Al, do not twist the mod's words

I forgot to mention the other point in favour of lynching you: not having to read your posts with that PR for the whole game. Sorry

[ortolan]

and are also most likely town.

why?

zwet, can't you just look in your sentbox (from when you sent it to Santos) for the flavour for millar; or even ask Santos for it if he's still around?

Doc dis, please.
The doc is in (50% pro, 50% kill)

which word was "dis" representing in this post?

did ZazieR ever explicitly claim to be Jar Jar or did someone infer that?

MafiaSSK: if your role explicitly states there is another miller who is town and chocolate, why did you ever suggest ThAdmiral was a good day one lynch?

[ortolan]

also I am awaiting people's thoughts on lynching Zakeri.

[ortolan]

ZazieR*

[ortolan]

In all seriousness I remember thinking the three (?) people whose names started with S were scummy, so I'll no doubt vote one of them after my re-read.

[ortolan]

actually Sironigous was the non-scummy one

Sting is the one player I've felt is potential scum when I read every one of his posts. He called for miller lynches in 90 solely because "he's always suspicious of miller claims" and then reiterated exactly the same thing in 253. I was considering Santos as a partner. A dollar for anyone who can explain to me what 444 by millar (who replaced Santos) is supposed to mean.

[ortolan]

Unvote
Vote: Sting

[ortolan]

Hi ZaZzy

*waves*

[ortolan]

oh, no not really, he changed his view didn't he

Sting's just been tunneling on the millers all game and has twice said "I never trust miller claims" as though overanxious to justify himself

[ortolan]

Hi Zaz! Over here!!!

[ortolan]

But was Sir's first stance to the mil scum or not?
And uhm, Sir could eas change his stance as he's been in this game since the start, while Sting left. So I do not like this rea.

I do.

[ortolan]

See e.g. 101

Then 146, 148, 150 though.

217 is a bit of a backtrack. If he's scum I like his referring back to 178 at the end. That means better scum than I'd expect for someone with a recent join date

232 got his eye on all the millers

238 asks for no mod-kill.

Yer um if Sironigous is scum he's good at it. He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

Sting is just scummy.

[ortolan]

146 is wrong but I'm just not sure it's scummy.

[ortolan]

same for 150, 148 is kind of irrelevant

[ortolan]

do you agree with that or...?

[ortolan]

placing anti-town and opportunistic votes does not guarantee scum, especially when I change my mind (I know I'm good but probably not amazing enough to frequently name all 3 [presumably there are 3, perhaps not] scum players just like that). All you've quoted just looks like I've been extremely consistent to me. I called them out for it at the time and it's still the scummiest thing to me, especially in regards to finding Sting the scummiest.

[ortolan]

you yourself voted for a miler claim at one point.

Don't quite understand you here. Do you mean voted for a miller or voted for a miller claim? I don't recall doing the former and if I did the latter I don't see how it contradicts anything I've done (and actually don't remember it, could you direct me to where?)

Can you also direct me to your reasoning which I apparently failed to address also please

[ortolan]

173 and 427.

What is the relevance of 173? 427 is simply an example of you being scummy for the aforementioned reasons. You want to lynch them simply because they are claimed millers. What motivation would they have as scum to claim miller and draw attention to themselves when they don't even know if there is a cop in the setup. Also, neither of these posts show where I "asked for a miller claim".

[ortolan]

173 was not me voting for MafiaSSK because he was a miller, it was me voting for MafiaSSK because he had a different win condition to me.

Saying whether or not there are cops in this setup is a completely WIFOM response to the argument at hand.

No it isn't, because the only benefit to scum of claiming miller is if they are expecting a cop investigation and want to pre-emptively negate it. It's also not plausible ThAd and MafiaSSK just spontaneously came up with a miller claim as scum, because they are not the only people who seem to have information about other roles in their role pm, see Zakeri. Also, what is your attitude towards Sting?

Someone refresh my memory- did we have a third claimed miller at some point?

[ortolan]

ZazieR- my suspects have been largely consistent across the game

Kreriov, who do you propose we wagon instead of Sting?

[ortolan]

who has played in a scummy fashion?

[ortolan]

Ex for Sir.
Which is quite strange to me as he back af you called him onto some scum he had done with ba the same rea he vot a mil.

Sorry, I can't quite make this out, could you speak up a bit please? Which posts are you referring to at least?

[ortolan]

So when are we lynching Sting?

[ortolan]

I did make a mental note to re-read Kreriov, his above post puts him about ~80% probability of being scum alone. The best part is when he says

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then proceeds to list all the many players I've attacked

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

What struck you the wrong way about it?

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Even though Sting supposedly is one of your suspects also. Also, if someone has been scummy they are a good lynch target independently of whether they are or are not getting replaced anyhow.

[ortolan]

Azhrei Kreriov and Sting are the scum. Possibly Sajin also. You really should watch out for my OMGUS, it's deadly. I might make a case when I can be bothered, or not. Stay tuned.

[ortolan]

ironic Azhrei accuses me of active lurking when that's pretty much the sole impression I get from reading his posts. That and baseless suspicion of MafiaSSK. I also notice he accuses Santos of active-lurking on page 10, it must be a catchphrase of his. He really should pay more attention. As of 254 he "still has no leads". 277 he has taken inspiration from me and wishes to leave the millers alone.

And you think I'm active lurking? Bugger. I didn't mean to. I am trying to just post my thoughts on the game, in the small amount of time I get to do so. (Which, for the next day or two, will reduce to none, due to starting my first job and schoolwork)

More obsession with active lurking.

334, 335, 344 all useless posts. I dare him to point to three of my posts of a similar nature and then reiterate his accusation of "active lurking".

389 and 390 both useless, that's five in a row now.

424 that's six

For reference trying to get Zazier lynched was reaction fishing to see if any widdle scummies would jump on me for it. And you did. Thank you very much.

Nice twisting of the words here. And A very good way to avoid his main point. This is called strawmanning. It is scummy.

Um yer mate. Actually it's not twisting his words at all when he says something to the effect of "ortolan has just been innocuously hanging around the game and not voicing suspicions", then blatantly contradicts the fact by listing all the people I've attacked. The first statement is made entirely invalid by what he then goes on to say. It had no basis. He probably saw it somewhere else and thought it was a cute line to use here to attack me and didn't pay attention to the fact that is 100% contradictory to what he then goes on to say. So tell me how exactly I am strawmanning him now? Squirm scum squirm. Strawman is a great phrase isn't it, but you need to pretend to use it correctly.

Also Azhrei is scummy for making zero references to Sushi Mafia which he played in and which I was scum in, which finished recently. He's clearly aware of how different this game is to my scum meta and thus doesn't want to mention it.

Then, soon after, he puts his vote on sting, main reason being some small insignificant point about Miller tunnelling. (Who wasn't miller tunnelling at the point of the game you were mentioning, really?)

miller tunneling along with doing absolutely nothing else and posting little. Why is he spared from your prejudices against active lurkers exactly? Oh, because you are scum with him, riiiiiiight.

In summary:

Ortolan's strawmanning

No. Or are you actually going to try to argue that point about me strawmanning now? Go ahead, give it your best shot, I'll enjoy it.

dodgy cases

Yes, against Zakeri, it was deliberate.

the occasional active lurking

Um...unfortunately no. Please cite all these posts where I have "active lurked". I know it is an attractive and easy catchphrase to use as scum but you need to be more careful. And you might want to answer the fact that the majority of

your

posts seem to consist of your favourite catchphrase themselves.

(and other occasional typical lurking)

Again, you need to be careful when players like me will tear down your obviously conceited statements. Where is this "typical lurking" you refer to? How have I lurked more than the other players in this game? How is it even possible I could have lurked/active lurked more than thyself anyway, have you actually read your own posts???

I must say I like the case.

Yes it was rather good wasn't it?

[ortolan]

@ Azhrei - Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I especially like the strawmanning bit.

unvote, vote: ortolan

Oh gawd I hope you're not town. I don't think going to bother to read Azhrei's reply, whenever people listen to me the least is when I'm most correct. Lynch me if you like I don't think I'll be able to keep up with so many games in the near future.

[ortolan]

When I say lynch me, I mean it. I will take greater personal satisfaction in being entirely right about the scum. I wouldn't want to facilitate a victory for a town which doesn't deserve it, having boasting rights and "I told you so" rights is more than enough for me.

[ortolan]

Much as I can barely be bothered assisting this town, I am the doc/vig ZazieR knows about

Any counter-claims?

Now can we lynch the scum please

Vote: Azhrei

[ortolan]

If Sajin is town he is very, very bad but he's probably not. I don't even know what he thinks he's talking about I'm sure I already addressed it.

[ortolan]

Ortolan, avoiding a case doesn't make it go away. Being a shithead doesn't make it any better for the town.

Remember Sushi Mafia?

What is the relevance of Sushi Mafia to this statement by the way?

[ortolan]

and btw not bothering to answer a case is perfectly legitimate when:

1) you know if the person putting it forward is town they're totally barking up the wrong tree

2) if they're scum you don't want to indulge them anyway because that just puts you on the defensive (more likely)

3) you can just independent role verification anyway and avoid wasting your time responding to a bad and incorrect case

[ortolan]

oh I don't think I need to explain what my role does, you'll find out when I target you for a nice "protect" tonight

[ortolan]

Why are you seeking information about town power role functionality and trying to tie the role up so it is useless also?

[ortolan]

I am not further discussing my role functionality

I had forgotten your claim to be immune to the doctor, thankyou for reminding me of it

[ortolan]

ZazieR told me nothing about my role I didn't already know

I believe she is town

[ortolan]

ITT Azhrei OMGUSes the only person he can

can we lynch Azhrei now please

[ortolan]

Kise has decided to vote millar and wow, unsurprisingly, he has replaced Sting

I don't think it's much of a point in me nitpicking you since you're the doc, but I want to say that I did not get the impression whatsoever that Krer' did not think you were voicing your opinion.

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

So yes, he did say that. And any way you look at it Kreriov's point was complete rubbish here.

Note: I re-read one of Kreriov's posts where he said he suspected me, Azhrei and Sting. I just realised he pegged two of my suspected scumbags and that coupled with his claim to be untargetable by the doctor actually makes him very very obv-town at this point, assuming I am correct about the scum and I am awesome so that's unlikely.

millar is just an easy lynch the two scum (Azhrei and Kise) are trying to push through to avoid giving us a perfect game when we lynch them consecutively then their buddy Sajin. They totally ignore the face he always plays like this.

Sajin

Nuthin. Really, I don't have anything.

Sting

I don't see the case on him, really. Null read.

*Yawn* Saying you have null-tells on your buddies and saying you don't like the cases on them without saying why is the oldest scum-tell in the book. I hope it's not necessary to further deconstruct Azhrei's posts to prove he is obv-scum so please don't fail to vote him or you'll make more work for me.

[ortolan]

I am not being a douche, for me to win we need to lynch the mafia and unfortunately you are mafia so we have to lynch you. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

If you weren't the claimed doc, I'd still be voting you.

Der. You put a whole bunch of work into the mislynch and I am sorry to derail it for you.

You're strawmanning again.

You're using the word "strawmanning" again without explaining how I'm supposed to be strawmanning you and not even demonstrating you actually know what it means

[ortolan]

Ortolan, your scum hunting method is incredibly ineffective if you think everyone but you is scum.

I don't think you are reading. I think you, Kise and Azhrei are scum. That is not everybody and is likely the number of mafia in this game.

I find it incredibly odd that you claimed the role that zazier said existed yet wanted to lynch her. What was up with that? You must of known she was telling the truth.

Read tha thread. I never wanted her lynched, I was just fishing for the widdle scummies to bite when I made an obviously stupid suggestion. Also having that information doesn't confirm her anyway, just between us.

WTF... orto, I JUST said IHMEO Sajin (and Sir). I don't share the same logic as Sting at all. He wanted to vote for THE Millers... I am voting for millar13.. Yuh huh?

No the connection was he was scummy and now you replace in and lay down a scummy vote.

And, to be fair, haven't you pointed the finger of suspicion at more than a handful of people?

Ye it's called scumhunting. I only have three suspects atm anyway.

I typically like your playstyle, but you're acting very erratic right in this game.

O rly? How so?

[ortolan]

yer um...Kreriov is obv-town, by PROCESS OF ELIMINATION if nothing else I have cornered the scum. I don't see any reason to prevent us attaining a perfect game by lynching millar

[ortolan]

actually can you at least let me re-read before lynching millar

I want to re-read to see if there's any merit whatsoever in the case against millar

those voting him; are you familiar with his meta or not (please don't avoid this question)?

[ortolan]

*Yawn*

Azhrei is still scum

ThAdmiral is still not reading the thread (replace out if you can't be bothered playing properly)

[ortolan]

Millar, Ortolan, you guys do remember that the general objective is to either be or to appear to be townie, right?

No your objective as town is to catch scum. If other townies are unable to read the fact that a townie is indeed town then they are bad scumhunters (does not apply to people who make clearly stupid gambits but does apply to people who are frequent policy lynches).

[ortolan]

Millar, Ortolan, you guys do remember that the general objective is to either be or to appear to be townie, right?

Catching scum, or trying to = being townie

Playing gambits which make you look like scum temporarily in order to catch the real scum when you can self-confirm due to role = uber, uber townie and uber good at catching scum.

As for millar, I don't think he is good at catching scum in general, but I don't think he is scum this game. If I am correct this suggests I am a good player, but if he doesn't even hunt for scum then he is not.

[ortolan]

@ Kreriov: I disagree that Ortolan's mind-changing means nothing. He seems like opportunistic scum trying to find a bandwagon that will go-go-go. And I've posted my case, I bring up new things when I see them (like how he

still

ignores most of what I say). What else do you want me to do to convince you lot. Same thing applies to Millar, ironically.

LoL @ the attack. If millar is town (which I presently believe anyway) then I am literally 100% right about the scum, it is Azhrei Kise and I'm 90% sure the last one was Sajin

[ortolan]

Um that is not changing my mind mafia member

[ortolan]

you are clearly not reading the thread, I never said that once scumbag

[ortolan]

I think its 1 per 5. So it takes the full complement to lynch here.

Admiral where have you gone?

Also Looker, you replaced in and no comments still?

Ortolon you change your opinions more often then any girl I know (and that is saying something).

Millar is not scummy. But I would like him to contribute more.

The only opinion expressed in this post is that you find millar not scummy (which I agree with). The first two comments are asking players for contributions and I don't understand the third comment. Are you saying I am scummy if I changed my opinions? Either way I'm not sure it's particularly true anyway, I've found the "starting with s" players scummy for quite a while now.

[ortolan]

no I said you were the non scummy one and Starbuck wasnm't in the game at that point

[ortolan]

Kise's scummy question is not being answered

and I think I'm going to have to avoid playing with ThAdmiral again after this game

[ortolan]

why are people so adverse to lynching scum such as Azhrei?

[ortolan]

Scum? Also how is a town power-role comparable to a serial killer in any way?

[ortolan]

Zazier- Are you trying to draw correlations between comments on how to use an insane doctor? My only question is, if we had a choice would we like him to be a vig or a doctor?

Unfortunately you don't get a say in how I use my role.

Unvote
Vote: millar

Not scum but lynching a townie is better than no lynching. Can we lynchi Azhrei 'n' co tomorrow when millar flips town, he was first on the wagon, ta.

[ortolan]

L-1 I think

[ortolan]

y hlo thar

[ortolan]

that was my doing lullll

[ortolan]

either the mafia also targeted Azhrei (although the flavour I got in my pm may well imply I am solely responsible for the Azhrei kill), or they targeted someone else and there is another protective role, or they forgot to submit a kill/deliberately no killed, or the mafia don't get a night-kill in this game

[ortolan]

Well I have the obvious observation to make that KoC's claim is far from optimal play if he actually has that role

all he wants to do is lynch him to get him confirmed (is it correct that you get mod-confirmed upon lynching KoC?) today so we have a higher chance of lynching scum. After this day though the advantage is gone because he becomes an obvious NK target. Plus if he'd every been wagoned to a claim he'd have this advantage anyway. So I see zero benefits to claiming the role the way he did.

It also could have been potentially useful in a 3 man LYOL or somesuch- if the other townie and scum try to lynch you then you get resurrected and mod-confirmed and turn the tables on the scum.

So I'm curious to learn what you thought you had to gain by outing yourself like this.

[ortolan]

I would like to hear KoC's response to my reservations about his play in 856

[ortolan]

yo yer I'll post soon

[ortolan]

I just did a (partial) re-read, the scum are ThAdmiral, Kise and probably Looker

anyway if one of us dies now the other will most likely be confirmed as town, so that is not too bad.

I think mafiassk's miller claim is much weaker than thad's, like he's trying to set himself up for thad's lynching to get himself in the clear. We should lynch mafiassk.

unvote; Vote: MafiaSSK

Kise, ThAd, Looker

this game is funny

there seems to be almost a complete lack of logic on display, and the most talkative person is unintelligible.

While making no attempt to redress the situation.

However if some of us had information about the presence of other roles, such as you, why do you think it is unlikely that we would also know about the presence of other roles? If we were scum we would have had to have guessed that this was the setup before attempting our gambit.
Furthermore you still haven't addressed the fact that it is highly unlikely for two scum members to put themselves in the spotlight like we have.

I have a question for you. If you are suspicious of us do you think we are both scum, or do you believe it is possible that only one of us is scum?

Bolded = are you on to me?

and therefore came to the conclusion that the other miller would be town aligned,

as I am.

This is a good point. I would like you, zaz, to clearly state your position on the miller situation and the outcomes of what would happen if one of us was lynched.

I don't understand the infatuation with this.

ThAd follows my vote on Sting in 493 then changes to voting me because he "likes Azhrei's depiction of my strawmanning".

I also think posts like ThAd's 603:

wtf happened to the ort wagon?

were designed to feign nonchalance, i.e. "not noticing" the fact I'd claimed doctor. He wasn't anywhere near as nonchalant earlier in the game.

So yer we definitely lynch one of ThAd or Kise today

[ortolan]

his predecessor's "no scum here" comment

[ortolan]

Though she was replaced by KoC. You know, the guy with the strawberry townie claim?

o rly? Even better. We can lynch KoC then; unless he gets mod confirmed at that point though we're lynching him again

[ortolan]

@Ortolan - How would KoC be mod confirmed if we lynch him and he does not die?

He wouldn't be, at all. I was seeking clarification as to whether he got mod confirmation when he got lynched. Upon re-reading it seems he said he explicitly doesn't. I also don't see what motivation he has for wanting us to test his lynch immunity as town at this stage in the game- it's not optimal town play. Therefore it looks more likely he is scum. I'll look at Sajin.

[ortolan]

LMFAO u need to take a course in basic mafia theory

will post more later (probably)

[ortolan]

is anyone else tempted to

Vote: zwetschenwasser

[ortolan]

I suppose one has to go with the watcher claim.

vote: krer

Vote: Kreriov

[ortolan]

Hi guys

[ortolan]

this will be interesting

[ortolan]

that sux, I was right about Ses standing for Scum and the hunch I had on ZazieR, I never could have gotten her lynched though sadly

and apparently the town got screwed by wierdly functioning roles as well but I don't really remember how that worked

[ortolan]

no I didn't become sane, I just didn't target anyone

I was starting to suspect mod-tomfoolery at that point as the mafia seemingly didn't get a kill on night one

that was quite funny that the mafia got redirected to the traitor

also that hider role is completely useless

[ortolan]

1 Watcher

Welcome to Skywalker Mafia! I’ll make this sweet for you… Since you’ve been a peeping tom all your life, YOU BETTER PEEP ON THE MAFIA OR THE ITALIAN POLICE WILL SUE YOU! You are a Watcher.

Abilities:
Peep: You may pick a player each night to watch. You will be told if anything

visited or acted on that player at night.

Sajin's kill acted on ZazieR night one but he didn't get any results? This is screwy, town mislynched days 2

and

3 solely because of this... Also as has been stated, why would the watcher see the redirector target the player but not the redirected player themselves?

1 Doctor (guaranteed either sane or insane)

Insane doctor protect: By my flip of the coin, you may target a player to protect every night. If heads, the person will be protected from all abilities. If tails, the person will die.

Am I right in inferring that the role PM implies that if the doctor's action is a protect or vig is determined randomly with a 50% probability, yet in reality it is stable i.e. it's lying to the doctor

[ortolan]

ZazieR I'm glad you had more fun killing me; than I did dying

[ortolan]

wait was ZazieR initially town-aligned? I don't get that from the role pm

[ortolan]

It's just that for some strange reason, you always think I'm scum.

I like to go against the grain, if most people read you as town (which seems to be a stable trait of people and doesn't take into account the fact they might be mafia in any specific game), I will make a more conscious effort to be more skeptical of you. It hasn't served me wrong so far e.g. this game

[ortolan]

meh, the setup actually looks reasonably balanced

PRs for scum are always annoying

Kreriov maybe should have been a bit more wary counter-claiming Kise like that considering the nature of his own role. It was just a conjunction of elements on night one really screwed up everything for the town.