Mini 790- Skywalker Mafia: Game Over

[Azhrei]

/confirm

[Azhrei]

Vote: Ortolan

That's for being so damn sneaky.


Oh, and hi to all those i've played with before.

[Azhrei]

Hi.

I'm a Miller



(and like that the random phase ends...)

Serious claim?

[Azhrei]

I am so confused right now.

[Azhrei]

@ Zaz, I was confused initially by your pr, all good now, I think I'm understanding you.

With this being a zwet game, I am inclined to believe you for the moment And ThAdmiral, I'm not so inclined to believe you. That said, I like Orto's policy.

Oh, and

Unvote

[Azhrei]

Wow, for page 5, this is a ridiculous amount of claims.


Of all of them, I'm most disbelieving of MafiaSSK's. Please, explain why, even though it had already been said that ThAdmiral had knowledge of another miller, you only just decided you might be it? Especially seeing as you had just voted him for being as such.

[Azhrei]

FYI, I use a post violation system similar to Tarhalindur's Mind Screw system, where five pv's make for one less vote required to lynch.

Can some ex this to me?

I believe what this means is that for every violations you make, you will require one less vote to be lynched.

For example, say you start at 7 votes to lynch, and you make 10 post violations, you will only require 5 votes to lynch.

[Azhrei]

I'mk sitting here wishing Zaz could post properly, as I feel like there's a lot more she could be saying. Tough PR indeed.

And I am also wondering about this setup...

[Azhrei]

yer interesting, I'm just a bit skeptical of four pro-town roles being able to confirm each other by the contents of their role pm-

you and the doc and the two millers

This is not en

?

true though. Will say more af

ter

I have post

ed

a li

s

t of nick

names

for each play

er

.
And there is one thing that I will say af

ter

pos

ting

mil

ler

1 has re

striction

.

Please, tell me if I have interpreted this correctly (simply quoting and putting yes/no next to each bolded bit)

Also, could you give another word for the question mark? I have no idea what you mean there.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but are you saying one of the millers has a pr?

[Azhrei]

Hm, I just rechecked my role pm to check whether mafiaSSK's win condition was different to mine, and I discovered that i also do not have a win condition. I have pm'd zwet about this.

[Azhrei]

Hm, seems that zwet just has an alternative view to what 'win condition' means.

As such, my win condition is also different to MafiaSSK's.

[Azhrei]

What is it roughly?

Essentially, I have to kill scum. It does not explicitly state that I will win at a certain point, it is more implied. (Like I said, Zwet has an alternative view.)

What is yours, roughly?


Also, Zaz, no vote yet as I am curious as to SSK's reponse, i forgot, and i am now curious about orto's win condition.

[Azhrei]

I think yours is the same as mine Azhrei.

Mine implies there is only one anti-town faction who must all no longer be living in order for me to win

fake edit: actually if there were multiple mafias then there might still be multiple factions

Yes it does seem to me that it implies the existence of a singular mafia.

Okay, happy enough now for a vote. If Orto's had been different, I wouldn't have been so happy.

Vote: MafiaSSK

[Azhrei]

Oh, and if ZazieR keeps this up the entire game I may have reading comprehension problems later lol.

Post restriction. She can't not keep it up. Please tell me you've played more games since Sushi Mafia? Pleeeeeease.

[Azhrei]

@ZazieR - Well, as I said, I think our roles and abilities across the game are interrelated given what you, MafiaSSK, and ThAdmiral have revealed. It really sounds like Zwet has given each of us little hints and tidbits to piece together. For example, you know the doc is insane. This actually leads to why I put that tidbit in there about the doc, so I will address that first.

I was trying to be a bit subtle there. I should not have said I think. I should have said I know that the doctor's protection will have no affect on me. This gives him an opportunity. If he is required to target someone each night, he can target me with no fear that he will kill me. But he will also not be protecting me. I realized I should probably get that out there, just like you thought you should let the doc know he is insane. I doubt these little information tidbits will be revealed if they are not shared before dying.

That sort of leads me back to your first question, about motive. ThAdmiral knows he is a Miller and knew there was another Miller out there. MafiaSSK knows he is a Chocolate Townie and only realized he was a Miller when ThAdmiral said he was Chocolate and knew there was another Miller. More info that is most useful when shared. It just seems to me that all this info is meant to be pieced together somehow. I personally think you are obv town. My motive is I just wanted more information because I think it would help me and therefor, in my mind, the town. In my myopic world, I asked for that info without realizing how it would look or if that info would make you (or me!) more of a target.

I think there is info to be shared and I am worried that people will be lynched or killed before it gets out there. I doubt that any weird or non-standard abilities or info (i.e. does not believe in doctors or the doc is insane) would be revealed on death. That info could be game winning. Anyway, those are my thoughts and answers.

Only problem with your idea here, is that I received no additional information whatsoever.

[Azhrei]

So Azhrei, based on your assumption that I am a bad player all because of one mafia game because I risked a role claim, you're saying that you're an awesome mafia player by claiming miller because we should believe you?

I second the 'eh?'


You were pretty bad in your first game, and I've yet to see any noticeable improvement, excepting the fact you are posting more now. You've posted no real content, and much of what you've said has made little sense. Like the quoted post.

MafiaSSK and ThAdmiral, given that you have claimed Millers (aka Chocolate Townies), can you also reveal your character roles?

The one that knows,thinks, and feels nothing.

Woah, woah, woah.

Unvote

That is way too close to part of my pm. I suddenly find your claim somewhat more believable. I think it might be best to leave our millers alive for the time being.

[Azhrei]

Post restriction. She can't not keep it up. Please tell me you've played more games since Sushi Mafia? Pleeeeeease.

Why are you begging the question?

@ZazieR, what is going on in post 222?

Why do you keep active lurking?


Also, I asked as I was hoping that you would perhaps be a useful player this time.

[Azhrei]

Also, @ Kreriov, the "One who feel, thinks, knows nothing" part, is almost identical to one line in my pm.

@ Sironigous, I have a different role, yes, but I am intrigued as to why the millers are having similar pms to me. Would you like a roleclaim?

[Azhrei]

Azhrei, why am i 'active lurking' and what does it mean? Where are examples of this and why?

Active lurking means that you try to appear active by posting often, but you don't actually ever contribute anything. Like, what you're doing.

Asking me questions like the ones you have asked (which, make no sense, and seem to have no bearing on the game) are examples of this.

However, your most recent post is a deviation forom this, and contains some lovely lovely content.

@Zwet

. Would I be right in thinking it was because he quoted, not paraphrased, oh merciful overlord?

[Azhrei]

Damnit, my post died due to a logout. Take 2:

I think that we're in crazy setup, and that we're in for a very interesting game, however, I think we need to get back to some genuine scumhunting. Problem being, I have no leads...

Perhaps time for a reread...

[Azhrei]

Damnit, my post died due to a logout. Take 2:

I think that we're in crazy setup, and that we're in for a very interesting game, however, I think we need to get back to some genuine scumhunting. Problem being, I have no leads...

Perhaps time for a reread...

Mil

lers

are still a good lead.
Sir as well.

Al

so

, ex

plain

why in your o

pinion

you are not ac

tive

lur

king

, as I get the im

age

you are.

(Tell me if I've interpreted wrong, please)

I don't believe the millers are a good lead, we wither believe them and leave them be, continue as per usual, or we disbelieve them and lynch one, then base our action on the other from the first's flip. I don't see how we can really glean any more information other than that?

Sir? Hm, I haven't noticed him... Definitely time for a reread.

And you think I'm active lurking? Bugger. I didn't mean to. I am trying to just post my thoughts on the game, in the small amount of time I get to do so. (Which, for the next day or two, will reduce to none, due to starting my first job and schoolwork)

[Azhrei]

@Everyone else, what do you know, think and feel?

First to respond correctly wins a cookie!

Nothing!

Damnit, my post died due to a logout. Take 2:

I think that we're in crazy setup, and that we're in for a very interesting game, however, I think we need to get back to some genuine scumhunting. Problem being, I have no leads...

Perhaps time for a reread...

Mil

lers

are still a good lead.
Sir as well.

Al

so

, ex

plain

why in your o

pinion

you are not ac

tive

lur

king

, as I get the im

age

you are.

(Tell me if I've interpreted wrong, please)

I don't believe the millers are a good lead, we wither believe them and leave them be, continue as per usual, or we disbelieve them and lynch one, then base our action on the other from the first's flip. I don't see how we can really glean any more information other than that?

Sir? Hm, I haven't noticed him... Definitely time for a reread.

And you think I'm active lurking? Bugger. I didn't mean to. I am trying to just post my thoughts on the game, in the small amount of time I get to do so. (Which, for the next day or two, will reduce to none, due to starting my first job and schoolwork)

Most are cor

rrect

, ex

cept

for im

age

, though I think your in

terpretation

works fine.

(yay for similar words )

As for the mil

lers

, I as

sume

that you think both are town. Why do you think that? Be

cause

I do not. That is why I see them as a good lead.
And yeah, I think you are ac

tive

lur

king

. If you dis

agree

, why did you not give rea

son

why?

I was initially sceptical of the millers, however the line about feeling, know, thinking, that SSK posted is identical to one in my pm (I think that maybe be what almost got him modkilled, due to the quotage). Due to me knowing my role, my assumption is that player of a non-town alignment would not have a identical line in their pm. That is why I believe they are town.

And as to the active lurking part, I didn't realise I was, and I'm trying my best not to. I believe this post (which contains content, no?) would be a reason why I'm not.

I will probably reread tomorrow, and post some thoughts on everyone else.

[Azhrei]

abuh?


On a side note, why do people keep asking to be replaced? Grr.

[Azhrei]

Clearly stated is asking for a bunch of violations. I am cool with unclear as I am curious as well.

I do not un

derstand

this...

I believe what Sajin is trying to say, is that if you were to give a full and clear explanation of everything, it would require you to break your post restriction a lot.

[Azhrei]

@ Zaz, I was merely attempting to make a joke by continuing the trend.

[Azhrei]

Uh, I thought I replied to all f your questions? No time for real post now...

[Azhrei]

Oh great, Millar13?

[Azhrei]

Read the thread, perhaps?

Zaz has a post restriction. She can only post the first syllable of each word. her name for you is now moth, to avoid confusion, as we have multiple miller claims.

[Azhrei]

Woops, above post is all screwy, as my refresh didn't work, and I missed about 20 posts.


Millar, do you just try to get yourself lynched in all of your games?

[Azhrei]

Due to me knowing my role, my assumption is that player of a non-town alignment would not have a identical line in their pm.

What, you think zwet deliberately broke the game for you?

Huh?

And I think lynching Zaz would lead to much information (and be easier on my eyes). However, I don't think she's scum.

[Azhrei]

And I think lynching Zaz would lead to much information

(and be easier on my eyes).

Why? (re the bold)

Because you've been our most active player, and have had the most interaction with others. Even with your PR, i think we'd be able to get a much better read on others from their interaction to you, and their reactions to your death. Thing is, I don't think you're scum, so I don't think it's a good idea.

[Azhrei]

Congratulations Zwet.


@Kreriov, I agree with you on Zaz. It's mostly my evil side that wants to not read her PR that wants here gone. And I'm not gonna listen to that side.

I am against lynching a miller soon, they seem truthful to me. Ortolan of late has been making me suspicious. I think I might do an ISO on him tonight.

[Azhrei]

Bold fail^

Please Note, I have limited access over the next few days due to exams

[Azhrei]

Copy paste fail ^

:/

[Azhrei]

Back-ish. Totally lost with this game, last exam is tomorrow, revising tonight. I'll reread tomorrow night, then post something worthwhile.

[Azhrei]

Ok, reread, and back properly. Time for reread post:

List of general opinion:

Guybrush Threepwood

N/A, waiting on replacement -sigh-

Kreriov

Townie. Very reasonable, good logic, etc. Interesting exchange with Orto in the last page.

Lab Mafia

N/A, waiting on replacement -sigh-

MafiaSSK

I think I believe the claim, so townie.

ortolan

Scummy - case coming later

Sajin

Nuthin. Really, I don't have anything.

Santos

millar13

Scummy, both the original and the replacement. Case also coming later.

Sironigous

Leaning towards townie, he hasn't done anything I perceive as scummy.

Sting

I don't see the case on him, really. Null read.

ThAdmiral

Also believin' the claim.

ZazieR

Very townie. Posts lots, has content even with PR, and so on.

---

Ortolan

Case time:

I wouldn't mind lynching Zaz at this point to be perfectly honest. I wouldn't put it past zwet to have made her scum (especially with an in-thread confirmed post restriction). I didn't like her calling up ThAd on a point of detail (him saying he changed flavour so that a mass-claim could break the game then her calling him out on this because zwet didn't explicitly say it was to avoid people breaking the game). I also don't like her insistence that we lynch one of the millers and if they flip town, lynch the next. That sounds like a horrid plan.

Unvote
Vote: ZazieR

perhaps millar could comply with the request of him also.

This really is a terrible case. It's more or less based on "I wouldn't put it past Zwet to..."

Then, soon after, he puts his vote on sting, main reason being some small insignificant point about Miller tunnelling. (Who wasn't miller tunnelling at the point of the game you were mentioning, really?)

See e.g. 101

Then 146, 148, 150 though.

217 is a bit of a backtrack. If he's scum I like his referring back to 178 at the end. That means better scum than I'd expect for someone with a recent join date

232 got his eye on all the millers

238 asks for no mod-kill.

Yer um if Sironigous is scum he's good at it. He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

Sting is just scummy.

Reasonable defence of Sir - I even agree with it, ironically. However, then ending line just doesn't work. Why is he so scummy?

Then, Kreriov makes a point I don't need to paraphrase:

I think I understand the point against Sting and Azhrai, but why Ortolan

@Sirgonious - some things he has said. This is a quote from when Ortolan initially expressed suspicion of you.

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then when he votes Sting this is what he says

Sting and Zironigous and Sajin have all placed anti-town and opportunistic votes

But later on says this

placing anti-town and opportunistic votes does not guarantee scum

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

Now, this is a valid point, Orto does indeed contradict himself. And I hadn't noticed that Sting was being replaced, so another good point.

Then Orto's defense:

I did make a mental note to re-read Kreriov, his above post puts him about ~80% probability of being scum alone. The best part is when he says

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then proceeds to list all the many players I've attacked

Nice twisting of the words here. And A very good way to avoid his main point. This is called strawmanning. It is scummy.

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

What struck you the wrong way about it?

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Even though Sting supposedly is one of your suspects also. Also, if someone has been scummy they are a good lynch target independently of whether they are or are not getting replaced anyhow.

I just don't agree with the last bit, but it is understandable.


Ortolan's strawmanning, dodgy cases, the occasional active lurking (and other occasional typical lurking), make me suspicious of him.

Vote: Ortolan

Cbf making Millar/Santos case also, I think that ones kinda obvious though.

[Azhrei]

ironic Azhrei accuses me of active lurking when that's pretty much the sole impression I get from reading his posts. That and baseless suspicion of MafiaSSK. I also notice he accuses Santos of active-lurking on page 10, it must be a catchphrase of his. He really should pay more attention. As of 254 he "still has no leads". 277 he has taken inspiration from me and wishes to leave the millers alone.

And you think I'm active lurking? Bugger. I didn't mean to. I am trying to just post my thoughts on the game, in the small amount of time I get to do so. (Which, for the next day or two, will reduce to none, due to starting my first job and schoolwork)

More obsession with active lurking.

334, 335, 344 all useless posts. I dare him to point to three of my posts of a similar nature and then reiterate his accusation of "active lurking".

389 and 390 both useless, that's five in a row now.

424 that's six

I admit, I have active lurked (however, it was more due to a lack of focus and time than any attempt to stay out of other people's focus, or to appear to be active). So have you. Admittedly not that badly, but you have nontheless. I'll quote them all. Oh, and Santos was too.

yer I can imagine

wow way to give me the one with homosexual connotations how about "ort" instead?

Hi ZaZzy

*waves*

Hi Zaz! Over here!!!

Hm, you asked for three. I think that's more than three?

For reference trying to get Zazier lynched was reaction fishing to see if any widdle scummies would jump on me for it. And you did. Thank you very much.

Really? Easy for scum to say that after making a case to see if they could get a townie lynch, methinks. And I believe I considered the option and decided against it?

Nice twisting of the words here. And A very good way to avoid his main point. This is called strawmanning. It is scummy.

Um yer mate. Actually it's not twisting his words at all when he says something to the effect of "ortolan has just been innocuously hanging around the game and not voicing suspicions", then blatantly contradicts the fact by listing all the people I've attacked. The first statement is made entirely invalid by what he then goes on to say. It had no basis. He probably saw it somewhere else and thought it was a cute line to use here to attack me and didn't pay attention to the fact that is 100% contradictory to what he then goes on to say. So tell me how exactly I am strawmanning him now? Squirm scum squirm. Strawman is a great phrase isn't it, but you need to pretend to use it correctly.

Strawman

Strawman is a great phrase, and you don't need to pretend when it's the truth. You selectively quoted Kreriov's post, attacking that which you felt you could disprove, and avoiding the rest of his argument. Hence, strawmanning. Here, let's look at his post and your reply:

I think I understand the point against Sting and Azhrai, but why Ortolan

@Sirgonious - some things he has said. This is a quote from when Ortolan initially expressed suspicion of you.

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then when he votes Sting this is what he says

Sting and Zironigous and Sajin have all placed anti-town and opportunistic votes

But later on says this

placing anti-town and opportunistic votes does not guarantee scum

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

I did make a mental note to re-read Kreriov, his above post puts him about ~80% probability of being scum alone. The best part is when he says

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then proceeds to list all the many players I've attacked

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

What struck you the wrong way about it?

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Even though Sting supposedly is one of your suspects also. Also, if someone has been scummy they are a good lynch target independently of whether they are or are not getting replaced anyhow.

Note the missing bits? Yeah. Strawmanning, boy.

Also Azhrei is scummy for making zero references to Sushi Mafia which he played in and which I was scum in, which finished recently. He's clearly aware of how different this game is to my scum meta and thus doesn't want to mention it.

I decided to not use meta on you, as I only have a scum meta, and have not seen your town play yet. (Confirmably so, anywho. I might still be wrong ) And honestly, your playstyle in both games has been similar. You cycled through period of inactivity and activity, usually made good points, and appeared reasonably townie. You are much the same here. That is what prompted my suspicion of you.

Then, soon after, he puts his vote on sting, main reason being some small insignificant point about Miller tunnelling. (Who wasn't miller tunnelling at the point of the game you were mentioning, really?)

miller tunneling along with doing absolutely nothing else and posting little. Why is he spared from your prejudices against active lurkers exactly? Oh, because you are scum with him, riiiiiiight.

Becuase Miller tunneling != Active lurking.

In summary:

Ortolan's strawmanning

No. Or are you actually going to try to argue that point about me strawmanning now? Go ahead, give it your best shot, I'll enjoy it.

Having fun?

dodgy cases

Yes, against Zakeri, it was deliberate.

Easy to claim, huh?

the occasional active lurking

Um...unfortunately no. Please cite all these posts where I have "active lurked". I know it is an attractive and easy catchphrase to use as scum but you need to be more careful. And you might want to answer the fact that the majority of

your

posts seem to consist of your favourite catchphrase themselves.

Sorry, what was that?

(and other occasional typical lurking)

Again, you need to be careful when players like me will tear down your obviously conceited statements. Where is this "typical lurking" you refer to? How have I lurked more than the other players in this game? How is it even possible I could have lurked/active lurked more than thyself anyway, have you actually read your own posts???

You had a one week period of absolutely zilch, without a V/La, and had to be prodded. I call that lurking. And all of my long absences have been explained, have they not? And I acknoweledge the active lurking I have done. I am attempting to stop. Like this post and my last should prove.

I must say I like the case.

Yes it was rather good wasn't it?

I thought so.

[Azhrei]

Ortolan, avoiding a case doesn't make it go away. Being a shithead doesn't make it any better for the town.

Remember Sushi Mafia?

[Azhrei]

Ortolan, avoiding a case doesn't make it go away. Being a shithead doesn't make it any better for the town.

Remember Sushi Mafia?

What is the relevance of Sushi Mafia to this statement by the way?

Flameaxe. And all the other shitheads who lost the game for the town.

-Waits for counterclaim-

[Azhrei]

Azhrei! Where is this GREAT CASE againgst me?
The fact that you claimed to have won, and seemed to have lost interest or forgotten about it just show you had nothing but "target" on your mind which is just scummy due to not following up on it at all.

Vote: Azhrei

Um... Claimed to have won? Kayy, where?

Start of case. False accusations. Like the post above.

Now to jump a little. Santos time:

First 3 posts are normal, confirming and random voting and some such, then he active lurks for a while (OH NOES ORTOLAN!), with a character fish thrown in for good fun.

*thinks back to Phantom Menace*

So who can't say a whole word, but only the first syllable? Jar Jar (I'm annoying as shit) Binks?

Character fish ^^ (Zaz picked up on this originally)

Continues active lurking, occasionally teensy bits of content thrown in, like this:

So instead of 'Vanilla' the millers are 'Chocolate'.

I don't think we should lynch one of them to prove what we already know its going to be. What does everyone else think?

Bit more active lurking, a stupid comment:

Oh, and if ZazieR keeps this up the entire game I may have reading comprehension problems later lol.

Then starts accusing me for no apparent reason:

Eh? I am pret sure I am Za, not Za.

HA HA! You must have been in stitches after posting that :p

@Azhrei, no comment about my 'chocolate' and 'vanilla' suggestion?

So Azhrei, based on your assumption that I am a bad player all because of one mafia game because I risked a role claim, you're saying that you're an awesome mafia player by claiming miller because we should believe you?

then some morre active lurking, then responds to something I've said for a second time, (why? for funsies? I dunno)

Post restriction. She can't not keep it up. Please tell me you've played more games since Sushi Mafia? Pleeeeeease.

Why are you begging the question?

@ZazieR, what is going on in post 222?

Around here somewhere I accuse him of active lurking, he responds with this:

Azhrei, why am i 'active lurking' and what does it mean? Where are examples of this and why?

Then posts his longest, most content-full post yet!

I am considering modkilling MafiaSSK. I will make my final decision soon

If a decision is made for this modkill, then I am inclined to venture elsewhere than hang around this 'miller' talk.

I think mafiassk's miller claim is much weaker than thad's, like he's trying to set himself up for thad's lynching to get himself in the clear. We should lynch mafiassk.

Do you have other reasons for wanting to lynch mafiassk? Why would he be the best option for Day 1 as opposed to anyone else who has claimed/ or not claimed? Who do you want to push for should mafiassk is modkilled?

OMG, more than 2 lines! All of them relevant. -shock-

Then a little confusion about Zaz's posting style, but still some content.

Then basically says he's tunnelling.

I am going after one man/woman at a time, Zaz.

Then, ironically (and inappropriately) accuses threep of active lurking. When he was normal lurking/waiting for replacement.

(I just realised the irony of all this, me, who's active lurked, accusing Santos, who mega-active lurked, who accuses Threep, who normal lurked)

Then proceeds to actually post some content for a while...

Then back to normal.

Then he promptly replaces out.

Then we get us millar. Yay!

We start out with a looong confusing thing about Zaz's pr, then an argument over his naming.

Then some argument over flavour. In which he repeats (a number of times) that zwet gave him no flavour.

Then some vague fence sitting:

Looking at this game, I am going to say so far everything is pretty vague. The whole Miller claim, or not Miller claim doesn't really amount to much in my mind as of yet. Maybe a lynching, will solve something likelihood is that it won't. I think the mafia are playing to a tier, as are clearly letting the game flow in a way beneficial to them.

Then calls Zaz town for posting too much...

ZazieR you post way too much to be honest.
However, there is no way your scum because of this.

Town: ZazieR

(Doesn't work that way, srsly. I agree that she's townie, but the amount of posts isn't the reason for this)

Then he asks for case, then makes his false accusation (yays)

What is it with Millar/Santos and falsely accusing me?


Now, seems we have no counter-claim, so I'll believe Ortolan - for now.

Unvote. Vote: millar

Oh, also, Millar is playing differently to the last game i was in with him, when he was town. He's not quite so scummy now. That's the limit of my meta on him.

Welcome to all of you lovely replacements! <3

-mambo-

[Azhrei]

ITT Azhrei OMGUSes the only person he can

can we lynch Azhrei now please

Curious, how am I OMGUSing when I'd already stated my suspicion of Millar?

[Azhrei]

millar is just an easy lynch the two scum (Azhrei and Kise) are trying to push through to avoid giving us a perfect game when we lynch them consecutively then their buddy Sajin.

They totally ignore the face he always plays like this.

How am I ignoring this when I don't alreayd know it? How exactly does he always play? If you weren't the claimed doc, I'd still be voting you.

Sajin

Nuthin. Really, I don't have anything.

Sting

I don't see the case on him, really. Null read.

*Yawn* Saying you have null-tells on your buddies and saying you don't like the cases on them without saying why is the oldest scum-tell in the book. I hope it's not necessary to further deconstruct Azhrei's posts to prove he is obv-scum so please don't fail to vote him or you'll make more work for me.

Um, there isn't anything in their posts that strikes me either way? What more do you want? Perhaps you should actually stop being a douche and play properly, and look at the rest of my posts. You're strawmanning again.

[Azhrei]

I am not being a douche, for me to win we need to lynch the mafia and unfortunately you are mafia so we have to lynch you. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

If you weren't the claimed doc, I'd still be voting you.

Der. You put a whole bunch of work into the mislynch and I am sorry to derail it for you.

You're strawmanning again.

You're using the word "strawmanning" again without explaining how I'm supposed to be strawmanning you and not even demonstrating you actually know what it means

Holy crap. Read my posts sometimes? Maybe? That'll help you.

Here, I'll even show you it.

ironic Azhrei accuses me of active lurking when that's pretty much the sole impression I get from reading his posts. That and baseless suspicion of MafiaSSK. I also notice he accuses Santos of active-lurking on page 10, it must be a catchphrase of his. He really should pay more attention. As of 254 he "still has no leads". 277 he has taken inspiration from me and wishes to leave the millers alone.

And you think I'm active lurking? Bugger. I didn't mean to. I am trying to just post my thoughts on the game, in the small amount of time I get to do so. (Which, for the next day or two, will reduce to none, due to starting my first job and schoolwork)

More obsession with active lurking.

334, 335, 344 all useless posts. I dare him to point to three of my posts of a similar nature and then reiterate his accusation of "active lurking".

389 and 390 both useless, that's five in a row now.

424 that's six

I admit, I have active lurked (however, it was more due to a lack of focus and time than any attempt to stay out of other people's focus, or to appear to be active). So have you. Admittedly not that badly, but you have nontheless. I'll quote them all. Oh, and Santos was too.

yer I can imagine

wow way to give me the one with homosexual connotations how about "ort" instead?

Hi ZaZzy

*waves*

Hi Zaz! Over here!!!

Hm, you asked for three. I think that's more than three?

For reference trying to get Zazier lynched was reaction fishing to see if any widdle scummies would jump on me for it. And you did. Thank you very much.

Really? Easy for scum to say that after making a case to see if they could get a townie lynch, methinks. And I believe I considered the option and decided against it?

Nice twisting of the words here. And A very good way to avoid his main point. This is called strawmanning. It is scummy.

Um yer mate. Actually it's not twisting his words at all when he says something to the effect of "ortolan has just been innocuously hanging around the game and not voicing suspicions", then blatantly contradicts the fact by listing all the people I've attacked. The first statement is made entirely invalid by what he then goes on to say. It had no basis. He probably saw it somewhere else and thought it was a cute line to use here to attack me and didn't pay attention to the fact that is 100% contradictory to what he then goes on to say. So tell me how exactly I am strawmanning him now? Squirm scum squirm. Strawman is a great phrase isn't it, but you need to pretend to use it correctly.

Strawman

Strawman is a great phrase, and you don't need to pretend when it's the truth. You selectively quoted Kreriov's post, attacking that which you felt you could disprove, and avoiding the rest of his argument. Hence, strawmanning. Here, let's look at his post and your reply:

I think I understand the point against Sting and Azhrai, but why Ortolan

@Sirgonious - some things he has said. This is a quote from when Ortolan initially expressed suspicion of you.

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then when he votes Sting this is what he says

Sting and Zironigous and Sajin have all placed anti-town and opportunistic votes

But later on says this

placing anti-town and opportunistic votes does not guarantee scum

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

I did make a mental note to re-read Kreriov, his above post puts him about ~80% probability of being scum alone. The best part is when he says

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then proceeds to list all the many players I've attacked

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

What struck you the wrong way about it?

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Even though Sting supposedly is one of your suspects also. Also, if someone has been scummy they are a good lynch target independently of whether they are or are not getting replaced anyhow.

Note the missing bits? Yeah. Strawmanning, boy.

Also Azhrei is scummy for making zero references to Sushi Mafia which he played in and which I was scum in, which finished recently. He's clearly aware of how different this game is to my scum meta and thus doesn't want to mention it.

I decided to not use meta on you, as I only have a scum meta, and have not seen your town play yet. (Confirmably so, anywho. I might still be wrong ) And honestly, your playstyle in both games has been similar. You cycled through period of inactivity and activity, usually made good points, and appeared reasonably townie. You are much the same here. That is what prompted my suspicion of you.

Then, soon after, he puts his vote on sting, main reason being some small insignificant point about Miller tunnelling. (Who wasn't miller tunnelling at the point of the game you were mentioning, really?)

miller tunneling along with doing absolutely nothing else and posting little. Why is he spared from your prejudices against active lurkers exactly? Oh, because you are scum with him, riiiiiiight.

Becuase Miller tunneling != Active lurking.

In summary:

Ortolan's strawmanning

No. Or are you actually going to try to argue that point about me strawmanning now? Go ahead, give it your best shot, I'll enjoy it.

Having fun?

dodgy cases

Yes, against Zakeri, it was deliberate.

Easy to claim, huh?

the occasional active lurking

Um...unfortunately no. Please cite all these posts where I have "active lurked". I know it is an attractive and easy catchphrase to use as scum but you need to be more careful. And you might want to answer the fact that the majority of

your

posts seem to consist of your favourite catchphrase themselves.

Sorry, what was that?

(and other occasional typical lurking)

Again, you need to be careful when players like me will tear down your obviously conceited statements. Where is this "typical lurking" you refer to? How have I lurked more than the other players in this game? How is it even possible I could have lurked/active lurked more than thyself anyway, have you actually read your own posts???

You had a one week period of absolutely zilch, without a V/La, and had to be prodded. I call that lurking. And all of my long absences have been explained, have they not? And I acknoweledge the active lurking I have done. I am attempting to stop. Like this post and my last should prove.

I must say I like the case.

Yes it was rather good wasn't it?

I thought so.

Note how I link to the strawman page in the wiki? Yeahhh.

wtf happened to the ort wagon?

he clainmed doc, and nobody has counter-claimed.

Actually. This is a zwet game. Zaz, does your role pm state specifically that the doctor you know about is a

town

aligned doctor?

A lack of real reasons on me, and a lot of clear band wagon jumpers. A mafia pushed one most definitely.

Reasons that you haven't even refuted?

Also, on Ort again:

ITT Azhrei OMGUSes the only person he can

can we lynch Azhrei now please

yer um...Kreriov is obv-town, by PROCESS OF ELIMINATION if nothing else I have cornered the scum. I don't see any reason to prevent us attaining a perfect game by lynching millar

Azhrei Kreriov and Sting are the scum. Possibly Sajin also. You really should watch out for my OMGUS, it's deadly. I might make a case when I can be bothered, or not. Stay tuned.

Anyone else see the contradictions?

[Azhrei]

Oh, also, my internet is out atm, so my posting opprtunities are limited. I'll tell you when its back up.

[Azhrei]

Millar, Ortolan, you guys do remember that the general objective is to either be or to appear to be townie, right?

[Azhrei]

Oh, and my internet appears to be working again... Stupid ISP. Grr

[Azhrei]

Catching scum, or trying to = being townie

[Azhrei]

@ Millar: I have a gender tag for a reason. And you didn't suspect me, you OMGUSed me and voted for not putting a case out on you, which I then did, and now you appear to have ignored said case and called me scum?

@ Kreriov: I disagree that Ortolan's mind-changing means nothing. He seems like opportunistic scum trying to find a bandwagon that will go-go-go. And I've posted my case, I bring up new things when I see them (like how he

still

ignores most of what I say). What else do you want me to do to convince you lot. Same thing applies to Millar, ironically.

[Azhrei]

Its not going to change anything, my wagon is already rolling. I have played too many games not to realize this. Not going to battle my wagon to hard, because my death will actually be beneificial to the town in the long run

Still scumhunt. Make your death more beneficial.

Exactly.

@ Kreriov: I disagree that Ortolan's mind-changing means nothing. He seems like opportunistic scum trying to find a bandwagon that will go-go-go. And I've posted my case, I bring up new things when I see them (like how he

still

ignores most of what I say). What else do you want me to do to convince you lot. Same thing applies to Millar, ironically.

LoL @ the attack. If millar is town (which I presently believe anyway) then I am literally 100% right about the scum, it is Azhrei Kise and I'm 90% sure the last one was Sajin

Wow, change your mind

again

?

[Azhrei]

A page or two agho, you were saying we would achieve a perfect win by lynching millar. Now you think he's town.

[Azhrei]

Hm, I swear you did, but upon quickly rechecking, you didn't. I apoligse for that one.

I also noticed that at one point I misunderstood what you said - I apoligise for that also. However, that doesn't really matter, as you never picked up on it or even appear to have read it.

[Azhrei]

Um, Ad, have you read anything? I'm certainly not banking on a mafia doc unless Ortolan gets incredibly scummy.

[Azhrei]

Bah