Mini 733- Congratulations! You are... Mafia (Game Over)

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Kätzchen, amirite?

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Ich sehe all diese Jungs sprechen, wie sie Deutsch oder etwas. Sie müssen Schaum, amirite?

Also, wer hat die Limonade? Ich interessiere mich für den Kauf einigen können, wenn Sie mir sagen, warum ich es wollen.

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Ve shood kill Dezh, too.

Glork's just mad that I didn't post more Hello Kitty pics.

Actually, Dezh might not be ze scomzh. He could just be ze stupidzh. Dezh, do you remember zis BALKO guy from ze California Game? How can joo be trusting of vot zis lemonehd guy tells joo?

Yeah, I do remember that. It's like the first thing I though of when I saw it in the vote count.

SlySly's reaction to what I said was interesting in that he assumed I had "no fear" about buying lemonade. You sort of did that too. I didn't say I trusted whoever was selling it or that I'd even necessarily buy any, but that I wanted to hear someone tell me why I might want some.

Sly seemed to be alluding to me being informed or something too, which is what got to me first.

I'm wondering if Sly finding people posting in other languages scummy is a major tell, too.


Just took a look at the vote count. Votes are too scattered for my liking. I don't know why Zaz was voting Caf, but I'd rather be voting Sly right now.

Unvote
Vote: SlySly

Destructor joins. Welcome, I've vaguely hoped to play with you someday, nice avatar, nice kitties.

Thanks for the welcome =). What's you signature from?

Destructor, why are you interested in buying Lemonade?

Curiosity. I haven't read the game yet but I saw 1 cup had been sold and no one was dead so I figured it can't be too bad.

The BALCO thing Glork bought up was from this game, where one self-aligned player had to sell "THG" to three players to win. If the player who bought it was a female role, they'd die of heart failure while males would get "roid rage" and get a daykill that they had to use that day or their head would explode.

Glork advocates lynching Darox or Destroctor today. Why? Ah, he seems to suspect Destructor's willingness to buy Lemonade. In my mind someone who's not cautious about this is taking a risk for his/her faction regardless of what said faction actually is. It doesn't seem to point to scum more than town unless Caf and Destructor share an alignment; just seems like someone willing to take a risk.

Plum makes lots of sense here.

So it was Caf that bought the cup? Has anything about Caf changed since he bought some lemonade?

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Kittens Cats Cute Feline Meow Neko Kawai Pussy Purr Cat Kitten Miaow

Sprache Deutsch ist nicht schwer.

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I read a few pages and realised that caf is selling the lemonade. He seems townish too. Sly bought some, dunno if he said anything happened yet.

Wanna test some things too.

Unvote
Vote: jeep

Buy: orange juice

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http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BQAKRw6mToA

Moskau
Fremd und geheimnisvoll
Türme aus rotem Gold
Kalt wie das Eis
Moskau
Doch wer dich wirklich kennt
Der weiß, ein Feuer brennt
In dir so heiß

Kosaken hey hey hey hebt die Gläser
Natascha ha ha ha du bist schön
Towarisch hey hey hey auf das Leben
Auf Dein Wohl Bruder hey Bruder ho

Moskau, Moskau
Wirf die Gläser an die Wand
Russland ist ein schönes Land
Ho ho ho ho ho, hey
Moskau, Moskau
Deine Seele ist so groß
Nachts da ist der Teufel los
Ha ha ha ha ha, hey
Moskau, Moskau
Liebe schmeckt wie Kaviar
Mädchen sind zum küssen da
Ho ho ho ho ho, hey
Moskau, Moskau
Komm wir tanzen auf dem Tisch
Bis der Tisch zusammenbricht
Ha ha ha ha ha

Moskau
Tor zur Vergangenheit
Spiegel der Zarenzeit
Rot wie das Blut
Moskau
Wer deine Seele kennt
Der weiß, die Liebe brennt
Heiß wie die Glut

Kosaken hey hey hey hebt die Gläser
Natascha ha ha ha du bist schön
Towarisch hey hey hey auf die Liebe
Auf Dein Wohl Mädchen hey Mädchen ho

Moskau, Moskau
Wirf die Gläser an die Wand
Russland ist ein schönes Land
Ho ho ho ho ho, hey
Moskau, Moskau
Deine Seele ist so groß
Nachts da ist der Teufel los
Ha ha ha ha ha, hey
Moskau
Lala lala lala la, lala lala lala la
Ho ho ho ho ho, hey
Moskau, Moskau Lala lala lala la, lala lala lala la
Ha ha ha ha ha
Oh, oh oh oh oh, oh oh oh oh, oh oh oh
Moskau, Moskau

Moskau, Moskau
Wodka trinkt man pur und kalt
Das macht hundert Jahre alt
ha ha ha ha ha, hey
Moskau, Moskau
Väterchen dein Glas ist leer
Doch im Keller ist noch mehr
Ha ha ha ha ha

Moskau, Moskau
Liebe schmeckt wie Kaviar
Mädchen sind zum küssen da
Ha ha ha ha ha
Moskau, Moskau
Komm wir tanzen auf dem Tisch
Bis der Tisch zusammenbricht
Ha ha ha ha ha, hey!

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Why is my English posting vote-worthy?
My role pm implies that I

may

die if I don't make some posts in German. Yeah, that's "may" die, not that I will. Maybe Mirth is lying... but I'm not really up for testing that one.

I haven't had the time to read the rest of the thread yet but I think I saw someone mention that Glork had only voted for people that aren't in this game. Given that I could do the same, I wonder if he's faking some sort of vote restriction. If he's for real, he'd become sort of useless in end-game, so far as I can tell. I need to think about what this could mean.


I don't get why Sly asked me the same question he asked before given that I'd answered it. I never said I had no fear about buying lemonade. In fact, asking if someone could tell me why I'd want it is an expression of caution if anything.

Not sure what to make of his claim. Something about it felt iffy when I read it first. I'm going to give the last few pages a more thorough read.

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Vell, Dezh... ze vay I see it, Kaf is eezher protown or not (obv).


If Kaf is not protown, vee probably do not vant to buy. So, ze protownzh people does not vant to buy becozh vee do not know if he is protown or not.

Ze scomzh, however, know vezher Kaf is in zere groop or not. If he izh not in zere groop, zen I vood project zat ze scomzh find him more likely to be ze protownzh (ya, ze neutral is poschibol). Zuss, I vood expect ze scomzh (and/or ze schtoopid playerzh) to be more willing to buy.

Fair enough.
I keep thinking how this is a Bastard Mod game and figure most mechanics and mod info will be red-herrings. I came in asking about the Lemonade because it sounded interesting, reminded me of BALCO and I thought maybe we'd learn something about the person selling it. Maybe most of this stuff has been covered earlier.

I don't get that logic.

Let's say caf is town, and the lemonade is fighting say, mineral water, and the scum knows caf is not with them, why would they be inclined to buy lemonade?
And would the lemonade still be victorious if the mineral water picked up a chair?

The point Glork was making is that scum would be more likely to think caf is pro-town, and so less likely to harm anyone who buys lemonade. But yeah, in both cases, a player, town or scum, with no reason to believe caf is unlikely to harm them would need to be kinda stupid, or adventurous, to just buy it off him.

SlySly's anti-foreign-language comment I can see more likely frustration rather than scumtell.

I saw other's posting in non-English and the mention of speaking German in mine and started thinking maybe scum weren't told that their survival may hang on speaking in German/Russian/etc.

at least for now (because I also keeping close eye out for destructor's explanation of English post, very interezting possible slip...)

If it's a slip, I'd have to be pretty dumb given how unique this game is. I'm pretty sure I'd remember that I made my first two posts in German whatever my alignment was since I've posted in english in

every other game I've ever played

.

I want to pet those first 3 kitties that destructor posted.

DOUBLESTANDARD between foreigners and kitty posters! Why don't you think kittens are scum, huhhuhuhuh?

It's cos they're hot. Sly is a xenophobic womaniser.

I wasn't defending. Dahill made a VOTE without really providing a case. Any time someone makes a vote without a case, I find that scummy. It made no difference to me who he was attacking, but the fact that he voted without a decent explanation was BAD, so I yelled at him.

Sounds like Isaac is responding to hasagddsgsgaf accusing him of a chainsaw defence or something. If not, Elvis' question about him not asking others about their defence of Kmd(?) is a good one. I need to read that case/the rest of the game.

still no answer from destructor (but no posts at all either, so I expect he hasn't seen the question from myself and hascow yet)...

Yes. I was probably asleep or doing non-internet stuff.

Also, wer hat die Limonade? Ich interessiere mich für den Kauf einigen können, wenn Sie mir sagen, warum ich es wollen.

I'm selling, obv. As I've said before, I don't know what it does and I can't say much else, but it will help me if you buy it so it's a case of believing that I'm town.

What happens if you tell us more?

ok, here's who I see defending kmd and how:
Plum: "oh, I don't think kmd is scummy"
Isacc: "dahill is scummy for focusing so much on kmd's vote because dahill is basing his case on an explanation for a random vote"
caf: "kmd was just being apprehensive, we'll worry about this later."
elvis: "people are stupid in the random stage, we can't see as many tells in this game"


elvis, do you see the huge difference I see between the defenses of kmd? most are just saying that kmd isn't scummy, Isaac is saying that dahill is scummy for going after this for so long. Big differences

I see a difference, but I don't see why it's scummy yet. Was this the bulk of your case?

Your laying off of dahill seemed a bit contrived to me. Anyway, you're not my focus right now, although you're attempting to make yourself it, which I find interesting. I really want destructor to come back and talk.

Hi. Are you interested in me because I posted in English? If so, why would this increase the chances of me being scum?

Wow, Isacc. I didn't call you scum. I said I disagree with you on a theory point. Quick to defend yourself much?

Eh? -ve points for Kmd. His 343 is reachy too. Seems to concede in 346.

I suggest that those voting for me look elsewhere for scum and quit wasting time on me.

This is something I've only ever seen newbies say, and Sly's not a newbie.

If it comes down to me needing to claim and Mirth approves the delivery of my claim, it will shed a little light on why I asked about your lack of fear about buying the lemonade.

According to your claim, you "had no fear" about buying lemonade because you, as a sasquatch, were unlikely to be harmed. Why did you think getting me to reveal something like this about my role was even slightly worthwhile? Isn't that pure fishing?

Your comment about the lemonade possibly effecting others is breadcrumbish, and gives me some pause.

personally, just a flavor claim and "not vanilla" isn't doing it for me

Since when did dahill ever want Sly to claim at all? And now he wants a full claim?

Destructor needs to explain why/how she's suddenly posing in English after he apparent German-language PR.

Not a PR. More like a threat from the Mod that I'm not willing to test.




Obligatorische deutschen Beitrag.
Und Katzen:

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Alright, well, I've made my defense against Has, who apparently doesn't believe the evidence before him because he feels it's fake. So, no point in belaboring the issue any longer, since I can make no defense.

Plus, this seems interesting. Destructor, you claim you don't have to speak in German? Explain post 142. Translates to, "If I could, I would." In response to being requested to speak in English.

I smell a lie, and your explanation seems more like backpedaling.

Vote: Destructor

.

I can answer for hasdfacow as wel. [Preview edit, answers for Plum too] I could see Zaz misinterpreting what Mirth wrote and thinking that speaking German was a PR. I can't imagine another reason for Zaz to have though she couldn't post in English.

Do you mean 'may die if you don't post some German-language posts' or 'may die if my posts are not in German' - looking at your post you seem to imply the former; can you just confirm that for me? Also, what makes you feel comfortable taking these risks?

I used "post" as in write. The word Mirth used was more along the lines of "talk" but I was trying to avoid getting too close to the wording of my PM for modkill reasons.

About the "risk", there isn't one, so far as the info in my PM goes. There was a specific mention that posting in some German might be fundamental to staying alive.

Now would probably be a good time to say that I've only been revealing the parts of my PM that are relevant to what people have been asking me. There hasn't been a reason for me to say more, and that's exactly why I haven't.

Are you saying you haven't read the entire game? Not reading the game in its entirety is scummy.

Not reading the game when it's obviously apparent that you

could

have, maybe. If you're suggesting that I should stop contributing until I find the time to read the whole game, then you should also be prepared to wait a number of days. I'm posting and reading while I can, which is more important to me and useful for the town than stopping and reading the entire game right now.

Also, I explicitly stated a number of times that I hadn't read the whole game, so I don't know why you said that like it was a surprise.

Also also, I did actually want you to respond to what I posted about you in my last post.

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I forgot to mention,

Mod:

I'm going to have limited access for about three weeks. I can try to get on every few days (2-3ish). If this is a problem, please let me know and I can help search for a replacement.

Nah, des, you stay. I like you too much to let you replace out

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When I replace into a game, I read it in its entirety before I start contributing. I'm not suggesting you stop contributing, but I would think town would be more concerned with being informed. I can see how scum can just jump in and start posting uninformed, but not town.

And I assume you had the time you needed to do so AND less to catch up on than I. You're not making any sense about scum being more capable of posting without reading than town.

Why did you think getting me to reveal something like this about my role was even slightly worthwhile? Isn't that pure fishing?

I just want to know if there is a reason for your bravery. A simple yes/no answer would be fine. I wasn't expecting you to reveal anything.

A Yes/No answer is revealing.

You specifically mentioned how your question to me was related to your own role. Your own role is meant to have an ability that is extremely useful - some sort of invulnerability or something. Why would it have been useful to get some insight into whether or not my own role had such an ability?

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Actually, how the hell would I answer yes/no to your question anyway?

Jeep is probably not scum.

Unvote
Vote: Sly

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You're not making any sense about scum being more capable of posting without reading than town.

Scum already knows who is scum, they don't need to be informed from the text.

You're still not making sense. Being scum doesn't magically inform you of the content in the game.

When scum hunting, any tidbit of information can be helpful. My being sasquatch is the root of my fearlessness in buying the lemonade, though I may be being naive and taking too much stock in flavor, and I was curious as to the root of your courage. I don't really care about it anymore, at this point in time...

What you did makes more sense as fishing than scum hunting. Do you disagree? And have you stopped caring about it because I've pointed out how anti-town it was?

... as you have displayed scumminess in other ways. I am in support of your lynch now, but I will hold off with my vote for the time being. You would just call it OMGUS anyway.

I would call it OMGUS if all you said was "NO U!"

If you have a case, post it.

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Everyone note that Sly decides to push aside the irrationality of his fishing after I point it out and instead vote me for not having read the entire thread, despite the fact that I'm contributing regardless, and me posting in English. Apparently this makes me the scummiest player in the game.

I'm making perfect sense, you just don't like it. Being scum magically informs you of who the other scum are. When scum joins a game, they don't even have to read the game, they know who the scum are already and can just jump in and start causing confusion and jumping on bandwagons, because they already know who they want to lynch; anyone who isn't scum.

This is a pretty freakin weak argument. And it's not perfect sense at all. You're being incredibly selective in how you're applying these ideas (which are tenuous) to my play:
You're COMPLETELY neglecting the fact that I've stated that I haven't had the time to read the whole game.
You're COMPLETELY neglecting the value to the scum-hunt in me contributing instead of posting nothing if I were to only read.

Are you really going to suggest that neither of the two points I bring up are relevant?

There is not much else to say about speaking German, but see what dahill said about his alien posting stuff.

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Is Sly making little sense to anyone else?

Without wanting to get into a quote war:
I didn't confirm or deny if I was a sasquatch. So, yeah, dunno why you're noting anything.
LAL is good play in certain situations. I don't see how this is one of them.
Your ideas of what "uninformed" players can or should do is at best an opinion and nothing else.
Bullshit about me using dahill's post as a defence. I was obviously using it as supporting evidence for my own explanation.

Your question to me about the lemonade still makes no sense as town play, Sly.

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You're COMPLETELY neglecting the value to the scum-hunt in me contributing instead of posting nothing if I were to only read.

How much can the uninformed really contribute?

About this. I think I've contributed a fair amount since I replaced in. That alone pretty much completely kills your argument that pro-town players can't be useful until they've read everything.

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Guys, I asked Destructor's agreement. Everyone else's consent was not necessary. I hope you will all trust me in that I think Destructer will agree to my demands, for his own good.

I don't consent.

Why should I risk being modkilled for this?

And, anyone who thinks my English posts are a scumtell, answer this:
Why would I post in German in the first place?

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Are you reading my posts carefully? I don't have a PR. I wasn't told to speak German and that speaking anything else would get me modkilled. I was told that speaking some German might be a factor in me staying alive. I am playing accordingly.

Can you please answer the question I asked now? If you can't find a good answer for why I, as town or scum, would have started posting in German and then stop, drop it.

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That is, why would I fake it? And then start posting in English?

What info in my role PM, that I shared with Zazie, would compel either of us TO FAKE A PR?

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Hi, I'm back home a bit for the weekend.

I saved a copy of the game and did some reading offline over the last few days. I have better notes on my laptop, which I didn't bring back with me, so I'll post them later.

I didn't like the attack on Kmd over his Zaz vote/comment on said vote. It seemed a bit trivial and something about the amount of steam it caught seemed really unnatural, so I figure some scum were involved there.

Not sure what to think of Isaac's recent shenanigan. It wasn't a good plan, but I haven't worked out whether he was being sincere about it.

As scum, your german skills could be really bad, as mine are, and you feel much more comfortable spinning things and defending yourself in english. If you don't have a PR, like your predecessor claimed, it makes perfect sense for you to play her scummy lie off to better fit your needs.

What?
1. I'm using google's translator. I don't know how to speak or read German.
2. How am I playing Zazie's "scummy lie" off to better fit my needs?

Why are you continuing to push this ridiculous theory?


Does anyone remember Darox doing anything notably pro-town?

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Deutsch Deutsch Deutsch Deutsch Deutsch Deutsch
Der schnelle braune Fuchs sprang über den faulen Hund.

Kätzchen!
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=mN-V_6_lY10

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Ridiculous? Your predecessor said she couldn't post in english. She must have been lying since you are now posting in english. So, you are playing her lie off that she couldn't post in english now so you can post in english without others thinking there is anything wrong with it. The ridiculous part is you acting like there is no relevance in this.

The part of all of this that makes you look like total scum is that you haven't even come close to explaining why I would bother to continue her lie only to start posting in English in my next post.

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Hi, just got wireless internet working from school.
Saved a copy of the game. Will read tonight and draft a post up for the next time I get online.

From the bits I've skimmed:
- Isaac-wagon is not great.
- Sly may or may not be scum. Him not being lynched doesn't do anything to prove his innocence.
- imaginality is giving me a REALLY bad vibe. I'll try to pin it down in my read.
- hascow too, though not as much.
- not sure what I'm thinking of elvis.
- Glork needs to post more.

What's the deal with the orange juice, cide and coat rack disappearing from the votecount?

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Plum: If other town members had supported the plan, understanding it was a gambit, the pressure would have forced Destructor to accept. It was the fact that the other people in this game did not like the idea that made it a bad plan, however you cannot attest that among other players the plan would still have failed.

The plan was always going to fail because I'm not an idiot. In fact, the plan would have failed with ANY player who isn't an idiot.

No player with half a brain's worth of mafia theory knowledge would accept a plan that will inevitably result in their death REGARDLESS of their alignment, which is EXACTLY what the plan you proposed was.

What you're saying you hoped to see happen was incredibly short-sighted.

What made you think that the rest of the town might "get" that it was a gambit but that I wouldn't?

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Hi, the following is the post I drafted up last night. I'll try to catch up on the rest after I post this:

I want to touch on the kmd wagon first. dahill, caf, Sly, Darox and imaginality join in on the topic. dahill IGMEOY's kmd for saying his vote was not bandwagoning, which is weak, so far as a tell goes, but then an IGMEOY would seem appropriate. caf asks Kmd about the truth of him saying he always voted Zaz. This is fine, but I wonder what the point of this question was. Why would kmd lie about this if he knew Zaz would call him on it? Darox makes a pretty weak jab at kmd in 211. dahill eventually votes kmd for no reason I can comprehend. His confirm vote make even less sense.

That said, I felt like dahill eventually demonstrated a reasonable basis for his behaviour. caf's take on the situation was reasonable too. Darox just came across as completely opportunistic. I don't see what gave Sly the impression that kmd was being "too defensive" (254. imaginality jumps on board dahill's case, which caf, Isaac, Plumb and myself disagreed with. I didn't like the case he eventually made, which leads me into...

Bad vibes on imaginality:
Starts from 167, after dahill pointed out the weak reasoning for his FOS on caf. He says that the "death cult" wasn't his main reason. He goes on to dissect one of caf's posts and say that his issues with that were the real reasons for his FOS, but why didn't he state those in the first place? Look at the way he over-analyses the post, commenting on parts of it that have no relevance to his actual argument. It makes the whole thing look like a big backtrack done on the fly.

His case on kmd seemed reachy. I particularly didn't like this:

Together, in absence of anythingk elz much, I am finding Kmd4390 slightly scummy which is more than most others.

In the absece of anything else? Why isn't he worried about Coheed's lurking? Or Darox's meagre contributions?

His jab at Sly for his "you (townies)" comment was reachy too. His recent comments about Isaac being scummy seem similarly opportunistic.

---

On Glork, I'd like to see a claim. If he can't vote for any player in this game, he's useless to the town besides through scum-hunting, but he's hardly been doing any of that.

I find it unlikely that he's scum faking a vote restriction, but, unlike Sly suggested in 526, I don't see why that mean he couldn't be scum who actually HAS a vote restriction. Whatever the case, he's a serious liability to the town because that's one vote we KNOW will never land on scum.

What this means is that with Glork alive, we'd be in lylo one day early.

So, Glork, if you can't vote for anyone, I think you should claim right now and explain to us why we should be keeping yo alive.

---

Out of curiosity, who else was asked to post kittens and stuff?

---

Darox, why did you single Glork and EK out earlier on?
Also, why did you think Glork having a second vote in the vote count was suspicious?

dahill, what was with this?

on sly, buying lemonade was anti-town. getting a few alien vibes here and there. not scum vibes per say, but alien vibes.

And this?

hascow, what did this mean:

Sly seems a bit IIoA, don't like that. He's also a fraud.

Fraud?

and eef you did not asked mod re. pozt restriction, vhy not, do you think PM is already clear enough on zis matter?

I didn't ask Mirth about it because it seemed clear enough to me and I figured Mirth would have given me as much info about my role in my PM as she intended to already. Nothing implied that I HAD to post exclusively in German. I never felt that this was a point of ambiguity. What is ambiguous is how much/how often I need to, if at all.

Sly, why did you imply that the lemonade had done something to change your role?

but Sly just hung there nonchalantly, getting rather bored and annoyed that he was going to miss his Gilmore Girls reruns if they left him up there all day.

LOL

@Everyone, part 2: So what do we think about the lynch? Does the flavor discredit SlySly's roleclaim, or is it just done so that Mirth can screw with us and we won't know if he's really a Sasquatch? Personally, I think the second is more likely, and I'm inclined to believe that Sly's role claim was honest.

I'm inclined not to read into flavour. Sly said he thought the lynch would fail, and that's what happened. We can't know for certain why this happened, but it seems likely that it was something related to Sly's role.

I had good reason to think a lynch on me would fail so I had no fear whatsoever in doing things that could be taken as scummy. You doubted me and wasted time trying to lynch me.

If you're town,

wtf

? How the hell is it pro-town to do things that you know are scummy, will cause distractions and make noise? Survival ISN'T part of a pro-town players win condition, so why did you do things that you

knew

would be to the detriment of the scum-hunt just because you thought you'd survive a lynch? What makes you think you can accuse

us

of "wasting time" when it was what

you

did that caused us to waste it in the first place?! Seriously, what the fuck were you thinking? You're either a townie who's being a complete dumbass or scum. Which is it?

ASDFDSAF.

I seriously doubt Sly is scum after the non-lynch.

Why? I see he answers in 578 - because he thinks unlynchable scum is unbalanced. This is on the assumption that Sly is truly unlynchable and will be forever. [see below]

On that, I'm wonder how Sly not being lynched has any bearing on the bulk of the case on him. imaginality says it'd be "better to look for scum elsewhere", but why?

I found it interesting that sly still has seven votes on him. The VC didn't reset. He has seven votes on him and continues to live. So I guess we can't lynch him today.

Actually, in Weasles Mafia, undo had a role that required L+2 votes to lynch. Anyone up for trying to put more votes on Sly to see what happens?

---

Re: Isaac and his gambit, I think the way he phrased some of his posts before he got heaps of heat for it imply that he was thinking about it as a gambit. He tells caf that he should "think more" about it and that he thinks his townies will see the benefit of the plan without elaboration. That all gives me a strong impression that Isaac was indeed thinking about something other than modkilling/lynching me.

Also, there seem to be two "plans" that get referred to. The first is the one he proposed - that I stop posting German and get lynched if I do. That was a bad plan. The second plan is his gambit - that he would use the manner in which I agreed to it to gauge my alignment. This wasn't a great plan either, but doesn't come across as scummy either.

I think kmd and co. are arguing that plan 2 never existed and that plan 1 was scummy. As I said, I picked up on breadcrumbs that appear to support Isaac's claim that he was trying a gambit so I believe he's telling the truth. If I hadn't have picked up on those, I'd be more willing to believe he was lying about it and so it'd be easier to see him having suggested plan 1 with insidious intentions.



Now that that's done, I think Darox needs to die.

Condorcet

Vote: Darox

, imaginality, Glork, {SlySly, hasdgfas}



caf, what will happen if you don't sell 3 cups of lemonade? You implied that you may die. What made you think that?

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Sly, nothing has been proven besides the fact that putting you at 7 votes didn't lynch you last time. Nothing has proven that you can't be lynched today with more votes than would normally be required or even that you might have had something like a 1-shot lynch immunity, or maybe 2-shot, who knows. The point is that it's completely unreasonable and irrational for you to be saying anyone who intends to try to get you lynched from now on is auto-scum just because, literally, you said so.

Your method of "proving" your claim was really stupid and I'm pissed that you did it if you're town. There was very little sense in doing it because you haven't done a thing to confirm your alignment, which is what we're actually interested in.

Your play, through your own admission, was intentionally anti-town so it should be no surprise that a bunch of us think you look scummy and want to lynch you.

@Des, I've seen the argument you are presenting about Glork before. You are saying that the game is in LYLO early because he can't vote (or at least not for real players). This is true. What is also true is that by lynching him, we put ourselves in basically the same situation. If he is town, it's a mislynch and likely a scum kill. That's 2 dead townies and another step toward LYLO. Basically, lynching him is counterproductive unless you think he is scum.

Yeah, but I haven't seen anything that compels me to believe he isn't scum. Unless something changes, I think he's a policy lynch for the day before LYLO, at the latest.

I still like my condorcet. I think the only good wagons today are on Darox or imaginality. Waiting for Glork to check in...

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I have a specific reason to believe caf is good people and I'd rather he stayed alive.

Buy: Lemonade

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Ich habe nicht die in Deutsch für eine Weile jetzt.

[destructor]

This should take no more than 12 posts.

Unvote
Vote: Sly

Everyone vote Sly. If nothing happens, we can simply put our votes back where they were. No harm done, a trivial amount of time taken.

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dahill, why'd you unvote Sly?

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but the plan was get

more

than 7 votes on him...

imaginality and Darox, nothing to say about my issues with you?

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Guys, I asked Destructor's agreement. Everyone else's consent was not necessary. I hope you will all trust me in that I think Destructer will agree to my demands, for his own good.

I don't consent.

Why should I risk being modkilled for this?

And, anyone who thinks my English posts are a scumtell, answer this:
Why would I post in German in the first place?

Zis izh eezy. Ze eemplekation iz zat ze pozht reestrikzhon vozh faked to begin vith. I am having a very, very hard time vy zombody vood zay "if I post in Englizh I vill die" zen seeing somvon pozht in Englizh more often zan zey pozht in German.

Zazie sed zat she cood ONLY pozht in Englizh. Joo are saying zat joo do not haff a pozht restrikzhon bot zat it "cood be" a faktor in joo "staying alive."

Now, vy vood Zazie fake a pozht restrikzhon to begin vith? Zis izh simple. Read page 1 and tell me how many pozht restrikzhonzh joo kount zere. I kount four, vith EK asking for von and not getting von. Ze obv reezhon to fake von vood be to fit in vith everyone elzh.
Zazie deezided to fake zis pozht restrikzhon, and joo, having not red zhe game yet, didnt notizh, and pozhted in Englizh. Now joo are czkrambling to ekzhplane joorzhelf.

MY FIRST FUCKING POST WAS IN GERMAN.

NOW TELL ME WHY I WOULD CONTINUE TO FAKE A PR THEN START POSTING IN ENGLISH AGAIN??! HOW MUCH OF THIS IS YOU BEING A RETARD AND HOW MUCH OF IT IS YOU BEING SCUM?

Dahill and EK and Dezh shood be able to konfirm zis. I vill leave joo to joor own konkluzhonzh on zis mattor.

Glork likes to vote for people and probably likes lynching them even more. I doubt he'd fake this vote restriction whatever his alignment was.

Olredy addrezhed most of zis, but re: engame.
A player who kannot vote in endgame kannot vin, period. If, theoretically, I vere ze scomzh vis soch a restrikzhon, zen ze ozer two towneezh in endgame vood vote and kill me, becozh zey kood not leench each ozer, and zey vill not no-lynch.

I olso find it interesting zat joo label me aszh being kompletely uselezh, vith no thought that I may have any ozher abilitiezh. Zat is not to say vezher I have an ability or not, but it iszh a very unsettling assompzhon for joo to make.

If you can't vote for scum, you can't vote for scum in end-game. Mirth says that we need a majority of living players to lynch meaning that you being alive in end-game is likely to result in a scum win. Unless you have abilities that are incredibly likely to save the town in the above mentioned end-game scenario, which is not something I'm willing to count on... without a claim and improvement of play, I think your lack of vote is a liability large enough to trump whatever ability you might have. Why do you think I asked for a claim in the first place?

In fact, I'm not seeing how you could possibly miss my intention given that I said this:

So, Glork, if you can't vote for anyone, I think you should claim right now and explain to us why we should be keeping yo alive.

What other explanation could I possibly be asking for?

If you're town and there's something my analysis of your apparent restriction that's wrong, I don't see why you would want to turn this into a shitstorm, like you did with the meta I bought up in SPQR, when you could temperately point out what makes me wrong. If you're scum, feel free to make a shitload of noise like you did in SPQR.


What is it that makes you feel that Plum is scum while Darox only makes you feel "uneasy"? Does anyone else find Glork's comparative "reads" on these two players surprising?

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Joo are still on ze top of my lizht due to joor ridikulos "claim now or else joo are uselezh" approach to my role. I believe zat protown playerzh (soch azh kmd who is obvtownzh, EK who is obvtownzh) vood be villing to vait and see vot my in-game kontribuzhon and vot ozer informazhon zey kood get on me before jomping to knonklozhonzh. I voodn't koll vot joo are doing "roll fizhink" Dezh, becozh it is not sobtol at oll, but I cannot believe zat joo vood normally, villingly put so moch veight on zis.

It's not ridiculous. Elvis even said she'd played in games where voteless players were lynched on account of them being a problem for the town.

The cruncher here is that your play hasn't been incredibly helpful. Right when I first started bringing this up I specifically said that you'd be useless unless you scum-hunted, but you'd hardly been doing any. By virtue of this, you're marginally more likely to be scum, which is made even more likely because you haven't done anything that makes you look town either.

You don't look or feel like town, and that feeling won't change until you make a decent case on someone. What you've got on me basically amounts to OMGUS and is obviously a result of you either not reading what I've said carefully enough or ignoring parts of it altogether. Again, more of your play that makes you less likely to be town.

I still don't see how you can be calling Plum scummier than Darox given what they've been posting. Darox has been lurky and opportunistic. Plum has been in depth and active. To only give Darox "lip service" without doing anything to ensure that your "uneasy" feeling is resolved is plainly suspicious.

---

Des, did you get a sex change or something?

Lol, nope. It's fun seeing myself being referred to as a woman though.

Unvote; Vote Darox

Flagrrrant leck off scom-hunting for most zis game. Not even has provide any uzevol votingk rrecord to look back on.

Haf ozzer point to make but on my vay to vork so keepingk thees post short end sweat, yes?

Note that this comes in place of a response to the mini-case I posted on imaginality and said that I'd like to lynch Darox.

Now I'm trying to figure out if he's bussing Darox, or if Darox's town play sucks and imaginality's jumping on an easy mislynch.

Unvote
Vote: Darox

What's everyone's take on this:

Starts from 167, after dahill pointed out the weak reasoning for his FOS on caf. He says that the "death cult" wasn't his main reason. He goes on to dissect one of caf's posts and say that his issues with that were the real reasons for his FOS, but why didn't he state those in the first place? Look at the way he over-analyses the post, commenting on parts of it that have no relevance to his actual argument. It makes the whole thing look like a big backtrack done on the fly.

And the rest of what I posted on him from that post?

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EBWOP
That last quote was about imaginality.

I'm starting to think he's a better lynch... =/

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--2a) I'm not sure how joo call it "bosing," Dezh, konsiderink Imag'zh vote vos

ze only von on Darox at ze time

. Bosing generally impliezh aktual threat to be leenched, and ontil EK/you (and now Sly) piled on, Darox vozn't in danger of leenched.

Distancing, then.

Remember that my vote was on Darox before I switched to Sly to test his claim.

--2b) The more obviouzh kvezhtion to ask is vy joo vood pose a

very blatant falze dilemma about Imag being scum

, wagon Darox anyvay, zen korrekt yourself in a doublepozht and not move to Imag anyvay. Ze falze dilemma kombined viz the lack of vote on Imag konfuzez me. I vood like sobstantial explanation on zeese aktionz.

Pretty minor. Darox is a better lynch because he's been more anti-town. I have more of a gut on Imaginality. I don't get good vibes from his explanation for the FOS on caf. Note that my problem isn't his "reason" but how he eventually explained it. (I haven't read his latest post. But initial feelings tend to be most accurate for me. Eloquent scum can often talk their way around a lot of things.)

There's also the less obvious but totally legitimate motivation for me to post something like that for reaction's sake, which should not be a strech for you to believe.

It should also be obvious that my suspicious of Darox and imaginality have their own roots. I find two players suspcious, so I speculate about how they might be acting as part of a team and how viable this is. Getting other members of the town's opinion on this only helps.

I'm still finding your beef with me very hard to swallow, Glork.

5) If Sly kood be leenched today, I vood probably support killink him.

I think I've actually got a town tell on Sly.

Mod:

Argh! It's a snake!

Plum, feel free to refer to me with whichever pronoun you like. It's all good.

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Elvis even said she'd played in games where voteless players were lynched on account of them being a problem for the town.

Zis is true, bot she obviouzhly doezhn't believe zat it is unekvivikolly right to leench voteless playerzh, vich is vot you are soggezhting. Vot EK said and vot joo vont to do are

kompletely, 100% different

. "Vait and zee" is ze right vay to approach it. Leenching people in ze manner joo soggezht is jost terrible.

"Wait and see" was what I said. I didn't vote you, I didn't say, "let's lynch Glork". I said you, as a voteless player, are a policy lynch one day before lylo. I asked for a claim because that was all I could see that would change that. All of this was easier for me to say because you didn't look very town either. I wanted the idea out there now, so it wouldn't be a scramble later in the game.

So far, no one, including yourself, has provided a compelling argument against my suggestion, which is on purely theoretical grounds, and I have asked for feedback on it. Most of the responses seem to be based on preferences as opposed to real probabilities.

So, basically, your argument here has always been that I'm blindly pushing for your lynch without considering context, which isn't true at all. My posts on the topic make this implicit. That you're still asserting this when I've explained myself a number of times is scummy. Bascially the bolded part:

You don't look or feel like town, and that feeling won't change until you make a decent case on someone. What you've got on me basically amounts to OMGUS and is obviously a result of you either not reading what I've said carefully enough or

ignoring parts of it altogether

.

Right when I first started bringing this up I specifically said that you'd be useless unless you scum-hunted, but you'd hardly been doing any.

In my defenzh, I vos off-site for nearly a veek vith jozh enough time to pozht zis in SPQR and zis in zis game. I didn't pozht between Jan 27 and Feb 05 ozervize. So yezh, I didn't pozht moch, but it haz nothink to do vith alignment.

I didn't find the posts you had made especially pro-town. It wasn't an issue of frequency. You had posted a fair amount by that stage.

I still don't onerzhtand ze falzh dilemma. First of oll, ze falzh dilemma izh scomzhee in and of itself. I shood not have to explain vy. Sekondly, I don't onderstand vy joo vood kvezhtion joor sospizhons of ze stronger, "more anti-town" Darox and not Imag.

Condorcet

Vote: Darox

, imaginality, Glork, {SlySly, hasdgfas}

I find two players suspcious, so I speculate about how they might be acting as part of a team and how viable this is. Getting other members of the town's opinion on this only helps.

Re: Me "questioning" the more anti-town Darox. Bussing is a possibility. Given that I'm suspicious of both players, the next most likely possibility I consider is that imaginaity is scum who's voting for Darox-town. Im-town/Darox-scum is also possible, but at the time, I wasn't feeling good about Imaginality not responding to my posts and saw his vote on Darox instead as unusual.

Darox is a good lynch. His play resembles that of scum more than town. I hate long Day 1's. They're a liability to the town and basically not fun. If anyone doubts this, see Weasel Mafia. 30 pages is enough. The day's been productive. I'm a fan of moving on.

[destructor]

Darox is actually starting to be helpful.

*sigh*

Guys, let's not forget these:

I still don't see how you can be calling Plum scummier than Darox given what they've been posting. Darox has been lurky and opportunistic. Plum has been in depth and active. To only give Darox "lip service" without doing anything to ensure that your "uneasy" feeling is resolved is plainly suspicious.

I shoud add that it's "suspcious regardless of Darox's alignment." I fully expect pro-town players to pursue their leads and not at all to leave an "uneasy" feeling at nothing more than a mention, which is exactly what Glork did until I bought it up.

I actually wanted to hear thoughts on this.

What's everyone's take on this:

Starts from 167, after dahill pointed out the weak reasoning for his FOS on caf. He says that the "death cult" wasn't his main reason. He goes on to dissect one of caf's posts and say that his issues with that were the real reasons for his FOS, but why didn't he state those in the first place? Look at the way he over-analyses the post, commenting on parts of it that have no relevance to his actual argument. It makes the whole thing look like a big backtrack done on the fly.

And the rest of what I posted on him from that post?

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Because if we keep him alive, the game ends a day earlier. If we lynch him, we lose that day anyway.

I don't follow you.

In an end-game scenario, so far as we know, Glork being alive ensures a scum win. Hence, we make sure Glork is dead at least a day before end-game and increase the town's chances of winning. This is a simple and indisputable truth based on what we know of this game's mechanics. Does this not make sense?

This is all assuming we even get to an end-game scenario and we haven't lynched Glork for something else anyway. It's possible that we catch scum every day and Glork is town (hypothetically), in which case Glork's vote restriction won't be an issue.


Kmd's second-guessing isn't unexpected. I do the same. But honestly, it doesn't phase me a heap if Darox is actually town for all the reasons I've already stated. We'll still have more to work with tomorrow and won't have a horrendously long Day 1 to seive through for info, which is genuinely a good thing.

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I'm pretty sure there's something really wrong with Glork's 752. I'll get to the bottom of it later.

In the meantime, kmd, what do you think about Glork?

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"Wait and see" was what I said. I didn't vote you, I didn't say, "let's lynch Glork". I said you, as a voteless player, are a policy lynch one day before lylo. I asked for a claim because that was all I could see that would change that. All of this was easier for me to say because you didn't look very town either. I wanted the idea out there now, so it wouldn't be a scramble later in the game.

Liezh. Ven joo firzht mentioned it, joo said joo had to think on vot ze alleged restrikzhon said. Zen joo came out vith joor "Glork should claim or else we should leench him" idea.

What I said:

On Glork, I'd like to see a claim. If he can't vote for any player in this game, he's useless to the town besides through scum-hunting, but he's hardly been doing any of that.

I find it unlikely that he's scum faking a vote restriction, but, unlike Sly suggested in 526, I don't see why that mean he couldn't be scum who actually HAS a vote restriction. Whatever the case, he's a serious liability to the town because that's one vote we KNOW will never land on scum.

What this means is that with Glork alive, we'd be in lylo one day early.

So, Glork, if you can't vote for anyone, I think you should claim right now and explain to us why we should be keeping yo alive.

I say:
1. Voteless Glork is useless to town besides scum-hunting, but he's not doing any anyway.
2. Glork is not only useless, but a liability to the town because he can never vote for scum. (Elaboration coming.)
3. Glork should explain to us why we should be keeping him alive in light of 1 and 2. 1 and 2 are enough to lynch him given his lack of hunting, hence a claim I ask for.

I put the ball in your court. I didn't vote you or suggest that anyone else should. Where's the lie, Glork? And more importantly, why are you pushing bullshit?

Ze policy itself is only part of ze issue here. Joo demanded a klaim immediately becoz joo said zat vizout one, zere vas no reason joo shood "be keeping [me] alive." Vot I kant onderstand is vy joo vood vont a klaim D1 for ONLY ze reason zat we may lose a day if I kannot vote in endgame.

First of all, zis is a DIREKT KONDRADIKZHON to vot joo jost claimed, zat joo vanted to "vait and see" how my role and gameplay vood play out. Before I ever had ze chance to respond, joo vere saying I shood klaim or die. How in ze Motherland does "klaim or ve have no reazhon to keep you alive" translate "letzh vait and see vot happens over ze korse of ze game before decidink if Glork izh aktually ze scomzh"?

What

you

said:

Zis is true, bot she obviouzhly doezhn't believe zat it is unekvivikolly right to leench voteless playerzh, vich is vot you are soggezhting. Vot EK said and vot joo vont to do are kompletely, 100% different. "Vait and zee" is ze right vay to approach it. Leenching people in ze manner joo soggezht is jost terrible.

First,

you

said that I wanted to lynch you immediately. It is to

this

that I said I was "waiting and seeing".

If I was suggesting that you should be lynched immediately for being voteless, I'd have voted you and pushed for your lynch on that alone. What I did was "wait and see" what you had to say. Have I voted you yet? How can you possibly perceive me as saying "it's unequivocably right to lynch voteless players"? You can't, so now your beef has become "des asked for a claim too early."

Joo tell me vezher joo vere "considerink knotekst" or giving me a "klaim or die" ultimatum, based on vot joo originially said. Don't joo dare try to change vot joo pushed. Joo vere blatantly fishing for a claim, else joo didnt vant me alive.

I wasn't fishing. I was

demanding

a claim. Fishing is insidios and sneaky. Townies don't fish, scum do.

Joo didnt say "perhaps Glork vill be investigated and vill bekome konfirmed town" (vich vood obviouzhly negate ze desire for a policy leench).

No it wouldn't.

Joo never said "perhaps Glork vill have anozer ability vich vill become evident vithout him having to klaim on D1 for no reason at all."

Sure, I thought about it. But your play didn't look town. I expect you to scum hunt because you're experienced and know why townies should be. You weren't scum hunting. You appeared more likely to be scum. I don't have issues about making scum claim. lol

So, yeah, you could have been town. You might have given me a good reason not to ask for your claim. I've read what you've been saying. I've kept a dialogue up. Read on...

Joo never said "perhaps Glork's lack of vote is temporary, and he vill be able to vote later."

This was the possibility I was thinking of in particular. A claim would have covered this.

Tho joo never outright DENIED zese possibilitizh, joo implied zat me klaiming is preferrable to exploring ze dynamics of my role vithin the context of ze game.

I SAID IN THE FIRST POST I MADE ON THE TOPIC THAT YOU WEREN'T SCUM HUNTING.
I would expect you to be. In fact, as a townie without a vote wouldn't you want to be making cases even more? Your backseat attitude didn't seem like something Glork-town would do at all.

And ZAT is vot botherzh me so moch about joor play. I vood NEVER expekt joo to take soch an onreazhonable approach as town, and zat is vy I think joo are ze scomzh.

I think I was pretty reasonable. I mean, you still haven't claimed and I'm still discussing this instead of going, "zomg glork didnt claim lynch him!"

So, you still don't look like town, so I would personally be happy to see you claim today. You are resilient, so I realise that isn't going to happen unless the rest of the town asks for it too. We would be making a mistake not to get a claim out of you tomorrow if we don't lynch scum today.

Here is why (and me trying maths again):

With x scum alive, where there are 2x+1 living, the town NEEDS x+1 votes

on scum

to have ANY chance of winning. (This is not hyperbole. It is fact based on what we know of this game's mechanics.)

If Glork is scum and alive in any situation as described above, the town could be okay -> Glork is probably scum (or else the game would probably be over)
If Glork is town, the town will only have x votes and so will not be able to lynch scum. That is, the town

will

lose.

So, unless something we know about the game's mechanics changes, Glork needs to die a day before LYLO at the latest or the TOWN WILL LOSE.

It doesn't matter if Glork's not lynched today. I had an anti-town feeling of Glork and wanted to explore it, so I started posting about it. If Glork's scum, it'd be fine to lynch him for something other than policy.

Funnily enough, Glork, as town, should be more than happy to be lynched at the appropriate time because of this.

(Something for anyone who's voting me to think about: If I were scum, wouldn't I want to keep a voteless player alive?)

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Why did you choose to make your most recent decisions based on him flipping town, rather than scum?

The play of a few has given me a hunch that Darox is town and they are scum.

I would also suggest that no one buy the lemonade. It sounds like a way to join a cult to me. If it were not for my role, there is no way I would have bought some.

Re: lemonade.

I think caf's town because he didn't make some shit up about what would happen if we had lemonade. I think scum would be tempted to lie about it. Caf has been frankly telling us that something happens but he can't tell us.

Towntell on Sly is that he bought lemonade at all. Glork said scum were more likely to buy it because they'd have more reason to believe Sly is town, and so won't harm people. On the other hand, scum would not go near the stuff if they knew that buying some

helped a pro-town player

.

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I say:
1. Voteless Glork is useless to town besides scum-hunting, but he's not doing any anyway.
2. Glork is not only useless, but a liability to the town because he can never vote for scum. (Elaboration coming.)
3. Glork should explain to us why we should be keeping him alive in light of 1 and 2. 1 and 2 are enough to lynch him given his lack of hunting, hence a claim I ask for.

Expand on ze #3. Joo and I both know zat is vhere ze issue liezh.
1) Joo ask for a klaim vithout anybody ozer zan joo putting even an ounce of prezhure on me. I maintain zat a protownzh player vood not do this. It vood make more sense for joo to have VOTED for me at ze time as a vay of putting prezhure on me to kontribute, instead of demanding a klaim outright.
2) The phraze "vy ve shood be keepink joo alive" botherzh me very much. Zis does not imply "ve shood leench joo one day before LyLo." Zis impliezh "ve shood leench joo immediately."

Why are you ignoring the obvious? If I wanted to lynch you today, if that was what my intention was from the beginning, why didn't I vote you?

It follows that my intention was never specifically to lynch you today.

There is no manual of pro-town play that says the only way to pressure a player is to vote for them. That isn't invariably what a pro-town player

should

do at all and it's ridiculous that

you

are suggesting this.

I thought you were more likely scum when I asked for the claim, which was an agitation.

Vot

exactly

did joo mean ven joo said "explain to us vy ve shood be keeping joo alive"?

As in, if you're not going to scum-hunt and you're going to be a liability to the town, why should we think you're town as opposed to scum, because if you're scum, we're going to want to lynch you.

I'm not entirely sure vy joo didn't vote me outright, because honestly, it's vot I vood have done if I vere in joor shoezh. Like I've said many timezh, joor klaimed stance on zis matter makes no logikal sense to me votsoever. I don't onderstand vy joo vood have demanded a klaim zere. I don't onderstand vy joo vood not vont to keep me alive (aka, not leench me)

Because

maybe

you just had a slow start and would pick it up. Instead, you OMGUS'd me, brushing off my

theoretical arguement

, which you agree now is true, as irrational and came up with two disparate reads of Plum and Darox. You continuously made arguments that were out of context or to the neglect of something else I'd already said. None of this has made me feel any better about you.

Do joo honestly think zat I, regardless of alignment, vood have klaimed jost becoz joo asked for it?

I didn't think it was likely. But if you are scum, I was pretty interested in seeing how they might approach the topic. I'm pretty sure I asked people for feedback on it at least once afterward.

Joo never said "perhaps Glork's lack of vote is temporary, and he vill be able to vote later."

This was the possibility I was thinking of in particular. A claim would have covered this.

1) Joo never addressed any of ze ozer possibilitiezh.
2) A klaim is only von vay of covering zis, and it is easily ze VORST vay to cover it.

I meant in ze knotext of ze ozer roles in ze game. Ve KNOW zat zere are many different mechanics at vork, and different postink restrikzhons. Yet joo seemed to ignore ze fakt zat zis is a VERY unuzhual game in favor of asking for a D1 klaim on a player vith no pressure on zem votsoever. Vy is zis?

Dunno, few reasons I can think of off the top of my head.
1. You looked more like scum than town.
2. Pressure/Reactions.
3. Your lack of vote had the potential to screw the town over. No one was discussing it's implications and I thought it was important to bring it up.
4. I don't think powerroles are the be all and end all of any game. If they are, the game's way too swingy.
5. This is a bastard mod game. Powerroles probably have limited utility. I give them even less value.

There's also a factor of me knowing you could probably come up with a fake-claim as scum (Dantes in Fresno), so getting you as scum to claim earlier would be more effective.

It's reasonable, given my read of you so far, that I should be sceptical of you telling us that somehow you being alive at endgame doesn't inevitably leads to a town loss. It's even more reasonable, barring something comming up that strongly suggests that you are town, for the town to be wary of this. I have been getting the feeling, by how much you initially opposed my suggestion, that you have been very concerned about

staying alive

, which is, at least, not a town-tell.

I think I was pretty reasonable. I mean, you still haven't claimed and I'm still discussing this instead of going, "zomg glork didnt claim lynch him!"

Well duh joor not saying zat now. Joo'd have to be a komplete moron to kontinue vith zat line of utter krap after I pointed out how HORRIBLE AN IDEA IT VOS TO BEGIN VITH.

Yeah, but I never actually said "if glork doesnt claim we should lynch him" in the first place. Neither did I mean it.

Zis is teknikally korrekt, bot it assumezh exactly von scomzhkill per night and no ozer aktions. Zere is an awful lot zat kan happen betveen now and "day before LyLo," and as I've said

multiple

times, I find it very diffikolt to believe zat joo jost ignored ze nature of zis game, as I indikated above.

The "awful lot that can happen" is

pure speculation

. I am not putting stock in what "could" happen.

Anything

could happen. I'm playing based on what we know here and now.

Funnily enough, Glork, as town, should be more than happy to be lynched at the appropriate time because of this.

Wrong. If zis vere a vanilla game except for my lack of vote, zen yes. I vood agree. But no. Joo koodn't be more wrong.

Without elaboration, all you're giving us is your word. That obviously doesn't count for much. It would be bad play to take it any other way.

(Something for anyone who's voting me to think about: If I were scum, wouldn't I want to keep a voteless player alive?)

Only if joo thought zat I vos truly useless. I don't think joo ever believed zat.

Seriously, there's no WIFOM here, if I was scum who really wanted you dead, I'd nightkill you. It'd be SO much easier that what's going on right now.

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Right now, as his missing vote is hardly crucial D1, it seems natural simply to lynch him if he's scum, and not if he's town. (Ain't that groundbreaking logic?

Winner!
Which is why I've made arguements against Glork

that have nothing to do with his lack of vote!

I think it's significant that Glork makes pretty minor responses to these and instead makes the bulk of his posting about my theoretical argument, which he has now admitted is correct (ignoring what "could happen").

I take Glork's side about destrrructor, who zeems to haf been fish/prezzure Glork to roleclaim and prezzing too hard (at this stage) on Glork for current inability to vote. Azide from hoping to get claim, destrructor may alzo haf been hoping if ozzer vagons fizzle out ve vould fall back on a 'lynch Glork he iss useless' lynch as deadline apprroaches.

Not sure about points against elvis, haf to re-read her posts again. At moment prrefer Darox lynch, also ok with destructor lynch. Feeling better about Isacc due to rrezent posts, now I tending to think hisss earrrlier aggrrreszzsion may been ankry townie razzer zan prezzured scum.

Look at that, no issues with Glork's read of Darox. Instead, his take is that the only reason anyone has suggested that Glork should be lynched is that he has no vote. And jumps on board the destructor wagon too. And all of this just after going into pro-lurker mode!

I don't think caf has been especially scummy either, but your logic here makes no sense. If caf is scum and makes something up about what the lemonade does, it could be easy to catch him in later. If he lies, we'll probably lynch him. So the fact that he didn't lie doesn't make him town.

Pretty sure he could have come up with something innocuous, like something that happened to

him

that would be difficult to confirm. As scum, he'd have had plenty of time to prepare is approach before asking anyone to buy lemonade at all. More important to me is that he's been really frank about it AND has been playing pretty protown.

Another logic fail. Sly says he's hard to kill, so that's probably the bigger reason he took lemonade and he's not afraid of what the lemonade will do.

It's irrelevant that Sly thought it wouldn't hurt him. As scum, he would have

known

that he'd be helping a player of another alignment. Why would scum do that?


Plum, if you can summarise your case, I'll try to respond, although maybe I've covered some of it in responding to Glork already.

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CAT VS KITTEN!!!

SAMURAI!!!

Samurai waren mächtige Krieger. Ninja's waren hinterhältig, aber.

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]Why are you ignoring the obvious? If I wanted to lynch you today, if that was what my intention was from the beginning, why didn't I vote you?

It follows that my intention was never specifically to lynch you today.

Ah. So joor sayink joo never had ANY intention to leench me even zo joo think I am scomzh based on my play and joo think I am a detriment vithout a vote?

1+1=5, apparently.

No. Stop it, seriously.

I've explained enough times already that I had a bad feeling about you. This wasn't enough to even convince me that you should be the lynch today. This is not complicated.

I thought you were more likely scum when I asked for the claim, which was an agitation.

Okay, seriously. If askink for ze klaim vos in agitation, vy voodn't joo have said zat at ze very beginning, ven I first said "joo dont vont me to klaim and I'm not goink to"? Sayink it vos in frostration vell after ze fakt makes joo look very insincere.

No, it was to agitate

you!

Because

maybe

you just had a slow start and would pick it up. Instead, you OMGUS'd me, brushing off my

theoretical arguement

, which you agree now is true, as irrational and came up with two disparate reads of Plum and Darox. You continuously made arguments that were out of context or to the neglect of something else I'd already said. None of this has made me feel any better about you.

I do

NOT

agree zat it joor theoretikal argument is true. I agree zat it is true IF AND ONLY IF joo make COMPLETELY TERRIBLE ASSOMPTIONS about ze nature of ze game vich NO REASONABLE PROTOWNZH PLAYER SHOOD MAKE.

I made a disclaimer from the start that the policy would stand unless something we knew of the setup changed.

So yeah, I'm being reasonable and always was.

I have been getting the feeling, by how much you initially opposed my suggestion, that you have been very concerned about

staying alive

, which is, at least, not a town-tell.

Zis "feelink" is kompletely wrong. From ze start, I have been attacking joo becoz joor play looks like ze scomzh. Ze klosest I kame to being "knocerned about staying alive" is becoz I said I vood disagree vith ze plan baed on vot I know about my role and zis game (even though I vood agree vith it if ze game were essentially vanilla).

Au contraire, I haff been kontnet to argue vith joo all day becoz I am seriously 99% certain zat joo are ze scomzh, and seeing joo leenched today makes my job so much easier.

But but but, your case on me is

smurf

house!

Yeah, but I never actually said "if glork doesnt claim we should lynch him" in the first place. Neither did I mean it.

Bot joo said "klaim and explain vy ve shood keep you alive." I'm sure joo can see vere I interpreted it as such.

Maybe,

but you're still

ignoring the obvious

: I didn't vote you.

The "awful lot that can happen" is

pure speculation

. I am not putting stock in what "could" happen.

Anything

could happen. I'm playing based on what we know here and now.

Why? How is giving a player who doesn't look pro-town lenience for "what could happen" remotely good play?

Without elaboration, all you're giving us is your word. That obviously doesn't count for much. It would be bad play to take it any other way.

Askink for and gettink a klaim vood have been "takink my word." Vot's joor point?

You can't backtrack on a claim. Once you make it, everything you do after that needs to be consistent with it. So, we wouldn't be taking your word for it, we'd be expecting you to live up to it.

Your refusal gives you more and more time to set yourself up for a better fake claim. Your "soft claim" gives us next to nothing to verify it against. Hence, it's nothing more than your word. Obv.

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Somethings anyone not as familiar with Glork's meta should take note of:

From California Triology: Dantes in Fresno, Glork's fake-claim, which won him a scummie.

From Weasel Mafia,

Yeah, he could be morally opposed to self-hammers.

Oh, and thanks Gorrad.

Basically, this.

If I'm scum and I think there's a remotely reasonable chance that I'll survive, I sure as hell wouldn't self-hammer. That's just giving up.

If Glork is scum with this vote restriction, he

will

fake-claim and he

will

do whatever he can to stay alive. Maybe you can better appreciate why it's important to pressure him as much as possible as soon as possible.

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He'd said Glork needed to post more; fair enough.

It wasn't just this. It was

what

he was posting.

Here Des makes it clear that he's not willing to wait and let Glork try to make himself and his role useful without a claim. Why is he more willing to let the scum in on Glork's role by making him claim rather than letting Glork try to work stuff well on his end? He doesn't note anything sketchy about Glork except relative lack of scumhunting, which Des did not push as being any sort of strong scumtell, as far as I know.

Have another read of Glork's play then and tell me if that's the play of a townie who's trying to catch scum, in particular one that has no vote. Glork is

really

good as town. He knows how to scum-hunt. What he was doing before I posted that wasn't what I'd expect of Glork-town.

The call for claim, obviously premature, is obviously called for by Destructor "now". I'm pretty sure that my interpretation of the second part as "if I don't get a good explanation as to why we should be keeping you alive, we shouldn't keep you alive at all". Des didn't say "he's a policy lynch the day before LYLO". He said "we should get you to claim and explain why we should be keeping you alive". Nothing about witing till the day before LYLO.

Lies or backtracking. Either way, it looks damned scummy.

Pretty sure I said we should lynch Darox at the end of that post...

WIFOM defense. There are plenty of plausible reasons, not least that Glork may have a useful role to compensate for his votelessness, not least that you wanted to appear to scumhunt and Glork looked like a juicy target. Not least a bunch of other possibilities. Imaginality thought of another: "Azide from hoping to get claim, destrructor may alzo haf been hoping if ozzer vagons fizzle out ve vould fall back on a 'lynch Glork he iss useless' lynch as deadline apprroaches". The WIFOM defense is noted, however.

Call it WIFOM if you want. But it's pretty much completely retarded to call something that doesn't have a roughly equivalent benefit to scum WIFOM.

Before the post where you ask Glork to claim etc. I see little attack on Glork at all - asking him to post more. Nothing in the manner of "He's not scumhunting at all . . . [insert a few sentences of case here] . . . so I'm fairly suspicious of Glork." Unless I've missed something, but I do not think I did. I think afterwards you bring in a point about disparate reads on myself and Darox. The fact remains that this came after the post in which you demanded a premature claim and implied, or seemed to, that we should lynch Glork based only on his votelessness and current unsatisfactory level of posting/scumhunting.

I don't get what you're saying about my criticisms of Glork after asking for his claim. How are they less valid?

Joo never said "perhaps Glork's lack of vote is temporary, and he vill be able to vote later."

This was the possibility I was thinking of in particular. A claim would have covered this.

A klaim is only von vay of covering zis, and it is easily ze VORST vay to cover it.

Agreed.

Are you really thinking this through? If it was as simple as Glork saying, "I'll be able to vote again later," what's the loss to the town? What's the gain for scum? Nothing and nothing.

Yeah, but I never actually said "if glork doesnt claim we should lynch him" in the first place. Neither did I mean it.

Bot joo said "klaim and explain vy ve shood keep you alive." I'm sure joo can see vere I interpreted it as such.

Maybe,

but you're still

ignoring the obvious

: I didn't vote you.

Yeah. Then if I say "I have a scumvibe on Player X, and Player X also wears green underwear. Therefore I want a claim from Player X now so he can explain why he's worth keeping alive; if he isn't, I say bag him for the reasons mentioned above" and don't vote Player X . . . I haven't done anything weird or scummy?

Your comment misses the point of what I was saying. Glork was trying to push that I had been intending to lynch him from the get go. I was pointing out that my actions are not consistent with this assertion.

Also, the example you give is maybe weird, but not scummy, if having green underwear was a serious or fatal bane for the town.

The fact that you didn't vote him didn't erase the fact that you demnded a claim in what really looked and still looks to be "claim well or die" language.

If Glork is scum, that was absolutely appropriate.

Because the alternative is lynching everyone you have any decent case/vibe on and a limitation (remember Sly's foreign-languages-are-scummy stance? This is scummy just like that was) because even though it "could happen" that they have useful roles, etc. giving lenience to someone with a limitation who doesn't look too townie would be bad play.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

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Duh!

This isn't even logic. This is the blatantly obvious.

I see Glork's initial dismissal of my reasoning as evidence that he was trying to avoid claiming by any means. He could have said, "I see what you're saying, and if it got there, I might claim, but I don't see why I should now."

He did say he wouldn't claim until he was at L-1 or something, but that isn't the same thing.

I'm kind of starting to see how odd the request to claim might seem. But I'm confused as to why it took this long for people to start calling it "scummy".

@des: i definitely understand that this would be the type of gambit glork would pull as scum, but that doesn't mean he should claim right away.
why? because...he could still be town and right now i haven't seen anything incredibly scummy in his play. i still dont really get why you wanted/want him to

If he was forced into a fake-claim, he'd have less room to move in the future. Basically, the sooner scum are forced to a claim, the more likely the town is to catch them.

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Why are so many people ignoring the reasons I've stated for finding Glork scummy? And I say ignore because no one I can remember besides Plum have even made a mention of them. Instead, the discussion keeps coming back to claiming, like it's all my posts have ever been about.

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EBWOP: And by 'mention' I meant actually making a comment and showing evidence of having considered and analysed them.

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From California Triology: Dantes in Fresno, Glork's fake-claim, which won him a scummie.

Zat vas one VERY forutnate example. As a counterexample, I cood point out Space Monkey Mafia, vere I blundered into a fake-klaim zat petroleumjelly KNEW didn't made no sense at oll, but I vas saved by a kompletely onforseeable setup tveak zat ze town cood never possibly have seen komink. I'm actually notoriously bad at claiming in general.

Maybe. I'm sure I read you saying in MD that scum that don't fake-claim lose (no idea what the thread was but I think those were the words. [preview edit: lol, I assume you meant fake-claim non-vanilla, as opposed to truthfully claiming to be a goon.]). That, plus your Dantes fake-claim make me think you're adept at it.

From Weasel Mafia,

Yeah, he could be morally opposed to self-hammers.

Oh, and thanks Gorrad.

Basically, this.

If I'm scum and I think there's a remotely reasonable chance that I'll survive, I sure as hell wouldn't self-hammer. That's just giving up.

Out of kontext. Self-hammering iz against ze spirit of ze game. In fakt, joo ask vot I vood do ask scomzh, and my answer is not only GIVEN, but EXPLAINED by ze fakt zat I am morally against self-hammers in general (here)... yet you konveniently left out zis bit of kontext.
I mean, if I am town and zere is a remotely possible chance zat I'll survive, I sure as hell voodn't self-hammah. As Oman said, I am morally opposed to self-hammering, so my scomzh play does not differ from my townzh play in zis instance. Scomzh

almost never

have a reason not to fight. Townzh

never ever

have a reason not to fight.

It was the "fighting chance" thing that I was referring to in particular (which I think is what the post you linked to was about). I don't expect you to give in to your own lynch easily if you are scum.

If Glork is scum with this vote restriction, he

will

fake-claim and he

will

do whatever he can to stay alive. Maybe you can better appreciate why it's important to pressure him as much as possible as soon as possible.

Do you deny zat if I am townzh, I vill do votever it takes to stay alive?

If "whatever it takes" means getting someone else you don't think is scum lynched, or guaranteeing that the town loses, or anything else that's similarly anti-town, then yes, I do deny it.

If he was forced into a fake-claim, he'd have less room to move in the future. Basically, the sooner scum are forced to a claim, the more likely the town is to catch them.

At zis point joor jost beink stoopid. By zis logik, anybody we sospekted shood klaim as early as possible.

In your particular case, I saw you having a role that guaranteed a town loss at endgame. This meant that, if you were never nightkilled, the town may

have

to lynch you a day before lylo to avoid that situation. You looked like possible scum, so I thought I ask for your claim.

If you'd been obvTown or not had a vote-restriction, I wouldn't have. It doesn't apply across the board.

Ze whole point in demanding a klaim is to express villingness to leench immediately.

Maybe traditionally.

No protown player shood klaim until it is MORE benenficial for ze town to klaim zan it is to stay kviet. So vhile joor tryink to give reasons vy "Glork isn't klaiming"

might

indikate zat I am more likely to be ze scomzh, zere are more good examples vy "Glork isn't klaiming" is merely a sign of perfektly normal protownzh play.

Yeah, in most other situations, it'd be perfectly normal for a townie to have refused my request, and my request would have been pretty dodge. But the way you refused it, casting aside the reasoning behind it (which I was correct about) is what I don't like.

And seriously, your "uneasy feeling" about Darox tasted gross. And calling Plum scummy, who I'd had a pretty town read on, on account of defending me seemed like pure noise, like you were using your OMGUS on me to create a link with Plum and cause a distraction. Both of these have absolutely nothing to do with your vote restriction.

Yes, townies can have different reads on players, but sometimes things are obv, or definitely not vague. The scum of Crackers had a particularly hard time calling anyone who wasn't scum 'scummy' without being called out because most of us agreed on our reads of most of each other. It tended to be the agreements on reads that held the town together most of the time. When scum made cases on townies, they tended to do so at the neglect of the towntells we saw, which ended up being scumtells for them.

Whenever I see someone post some read on a player that is so far apart from what I'm seeing, it catches my attention. Why? Because scum have to fake it, so they're more likely to latch onto whatever they can find and will otherwise avoid committal comments. Your case on Plum was to the neglect of her pro-town content. Your comment on Darox was unusually and inappropriately noncommittal. This picked my attention because, mostly, I wanted to lynch him but also because I remembered that you'd coarsely pushed his lynch earlier in the game.

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Dunno timezone stuff, but it's the 22nd here, which means deadline can't be far away.

Darox should probably claim asap.

I am at GMT-5, so all times are my time for deadlines

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EWBOP:

I'm sure I read you saying in MD that scum that don't fake-claim lose (no idea what the thread was but I think those were the words. [preview edit: lol, I assume you meant fake-claim non-vanilla, as opposed to truthfully claiming to be a goon.]).

Actually, I think you did specifically say non-vanilla.

Apologies for the frequent multiposts. I can't promise that I'll stop doing them.

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According to this, we've got a little under 1 day and 18 hours to deadline.

Anyone not voting for a likely lynch (Darox or myself) needs to decide what to do: join one of the leading wagons or make the most compelling case they ever have on someone else.

I think Darox should claim in his next post.

[destructor]

Darox, if you're ever going to claim anything you should have already done it. If you actually can claim something about your role, all you've done is increase the chance of a deadline scramble. That's anti-town at the least.

[destructor]

Privyet!

I am replayzing Glork. Giv me a day to catch up, ya, and I vill produze vor joo a grant and mighty post.

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Destructor: Would you please go back and check your arguments against Glork (were you calling him scummy? I think you might have, but I forget so please correct me if I am wrong), and please re-evaluate him now that you are his role. Please explain clearly what opinions about him have changed, and your reasoning for why.

I do not know what "reazonink" you expect from me. I zort zat Glork voz schomz but I voz inchorecht. Ze reason is obvhiouzly zat I know his role now.

I zort zat Glork's early play voz not vhat I vood expecht vrom im az town and did not liek his OMGUZ attack on me az vell as his reachshon to my caze for his policy lynch. Zis is ze "rezonink" I had as

Dschinghis Khan

to beleev Glork voz schomz and is reduntant to me now. In retrozpeckt, knowink his rol I am abel to see vhy he zed (or did not zay) zom ov ze tinks zat he did.

Also, as a second note, what's your opinion on people's actions so far?

Az I zed in my first incarnazion, my initial reeds ov playerz tendz to be ze stronghest. I hav noticed in skimming avter I voz killed zat a vagon is grown on Plom and cazes hav been made on her and (I tink) Iyzak. I red both of them as town throughout day won but vill giv the cazes a proper reed now.

Iv I may recal ze condorzet I posted bevore:

Condorcet Vote: Darox, imaginality, Glork, {SlySly, hasdgfas}

I was ztill quite heppy viz it ven day 2 started (und I as Dshinghis voz ded). Now zat I know I voz rong ebout Glork, I em left vith imaginality, Sly and hazcow, who I am ztill finding likely candidates as ze zchomz.

I am ztill very much confuzed az to vhy imaginality is not being questioned morr. I did not find his play in Day 1 pro-town at all. Ze most prominent event in my mind of his iz his over-enalyziz of caf's post, vich did not zeem

at all

zincere and made little zense in ze context in vich it voz made. Az I zed in Day 1, I do beleev in pro-town tells (zee ze referenze to Crackers! Mafia). I caynot recall

any

I have found vrom imaginality.

I vould be very very interezted in hearing ehveryone's opinion of him and ze validity ov ze cazes he has made in zis game.

Az vor Iyzak, I vill look over ze case now, but my inizial zort iz zat he should not be havink to claim at all. I vill be villink to show vhat I saw zat makes me tinkink zat he iz town.

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I have never heard of a town gambit.

vote: Isacc

A town gambit.

Even iv zis is not an ekzelent ekzample, Sly's stanze on town gambit'z is zilly.

There are several protown Gambits. The issue I had with Isacc's is that I didn't see it as a Gambit. I saw it as a scum move that didn't work, so he tried to call it a Gambit.

I menzhioned zat I found Iyzak's klaim zat he voz tryink a gambit beleevabel. Here iz vhy.

However, the language issue is what I feel can be solved now. I have an important deal to make, which I think my fellow town members will see the logic in.

Caf, if that's as far as you can think, you aren't thinking at all.

Bhoth ov zeez posts very heavaly imply zat Iyzak voz indeed intendink to do moor zan vhat he had stayted.

Zo, in my mind, I do not find ze gambit az a cohmpellink argument against Iyzak. Kmd, do joo hav anyzink elz on Iyzak?

Plomb made zom ozzer argumentz on Iyzak, liek suggestink zat he voz distanzink, but overall I am ztill not zwayed.

Re: Plomb, I tink that she has adequately explayened her akzions regarding voting EK. I do find her pushink ze caze on dezh-Khan instead of Darox-schomz notable and it iz certainly worth keeping in mihnd, but I can zee zomvon doink zat az town too. And Plomb ztill looks moor town zan enyzing elze right now.

And enyvay, I vant to lynch imaginality today.

[destructor]

Olzo, iv I have mizzed zomzing about ze cazes on Iyzak and Plomb, zen pleez let me know.

And, I vonder iv ziz vill vork.

Mod:

Can hazcow be prodded?

haz, I hope you hav been doink ziz:

Hazkow:

I have a homevork assinment for joo. Even zo joo kant post today, I am not goink to let joo off ze hook. Using ze notes fonktion on zis site (or notepad, or votever joo vont, really), I vont joo to take notes on ze ENTIRE day as it happens. Every time joo see an interesting post/point, argument, or anything zat stiks out to joo, I vont joo to note ze post nomber, and write a sentence (or more) on it. Vonce joo are able to talk again, I vont joo to post ze ENTIRE set of notes in full. If joo are protownzh, a largely objective, stream-of-konsciosness, comprehensive analysis kan be a huge blessink in disgize. If joo DON'T post this tomorrow, I am goink to throttle joo. Joo have no excuse not to do zis, konsiderink joo shood be followink ze game anyvay. Thanks in advance.

[destructor]

Hi imaginality.

[destructor]

hascow is silenced today, des. he doesn't need prodding[/b]

Hrmm. I figured zat iv he iz not ded, zen he iz ztill expekted to be reedink ze game. To anzer sly, hoo zo ekzitedly kolled me ztupid or zkohmz, I voz tryink to ensure zat hazcow vill not hav forgotten ze requezt Glork made ov him and vud be postink zis az zoon as he pozted next (iv he becoms unzilenced).

This is all in reference to Kmd's case here.

Oh. I did not reed ziz post. I vill do zo and post my zorts next.

@

des

: Hi! What do you think of EK (the other player who is currently being voted, whom you haven't mentioned so far)?

I ment to menshon on zis yezterday in relazion to Plombz caze on her.

I had a very week reed ov elvis zrough day 1, but voz not too koncerned becoz I had ztronger reeds on mozt ozzer playerz. I ztill am no zo zure. I feel I may hav to do zom meta-aynalyziz of her, in particular referenze to her commentz about Sly's "zlip", vich I beleev I commented on as veek at ze time, but I beeliv she voz completly inkohrect aybout Hazcow follovink Iyzak's plan - I beeliv Haz voz votink des-Khan befor Iyzak propozed it. Az it zeems she did not take ze time to verify ziz, her akshonz do zeem zomvat opportuniztic.

Aside from a curious way of getting on the SlySly wagon (which I talked about in 515), I haven't found imaginality to have done much scummy stuff. Is there anything in particular I should be focusing on?

My initial gripe voz for vat I zed in Post 622. Hiz poztz very moch giv me ze impreshon that he is scohmz. Zere are posts he has made zat I can only dehzcribe as strange, liek he iz hoping zat they are vat a townie vud do, or zomzing. I vill try to find ze vonz I am tinkink ov in particular.

To summarise, my list of players looks something like this. Scum at the top:

Plum/Sly.
Isacc/EK.
Kmd.
Glorkdes/imaginality.

with hasd in some mystery position that not even I know.

Vy is it zat joo hav Kmd in zat list?

---

Az I voz serchink for a link I realized zat des-Khan did not rezpond to thiz post ov imaginality:

1. Vhat I zed vhen I FoS caf vas:

I vondering, lemonade, eef maybe could be Kool Aid cult zuizide drink. I no trust caf19. FoS

I said reason for FoS, that I not trust caf. Death cult yust a possibility I raise as exomple of vhy lemonade could be bad if caf is bad. my later post (166) I zpell out reasons vhy I not trust caf. (Note phrasink in zat post, "Did not zpell out my reasons." - not givingk different reasons for FoS, yust explaining vhy I not trust caf.) 166 is not defensive/backtrackingk, 166 is explainingk.

Vas not makingk case to vote caf (my vote vas still on Isacc), yust to explain vhy I not buy lemonade and not think it good to buy lemonade.

Thiz iz not conziztent viz ze FOSing. Not tinkink zat it iz good to buy lemonade and

sospektink

zomvon are compleetly different.

Ze rest of thiz paragraph iz not absolvink - moch ov it iz superfluoz as imaginaity's over-anaylyziz ov caf's post voz.

2. "Why isn't he worried about..." Not whole lot of point voting lurkers until zey return (showing they lurking were), I not rrreally like to vote people who may yust haf flaked (as it turned out CoheedCambria did). I vas findingk it hard to get good reads on people in ziz game (still am somevhat, ezpezially elvis and Kmd). As for Darox, lack of contribution at zat time vas not so vorrying, it vas not so long zinz rrrandom stage. By now iss more scummy.

I vil hav to chek ze timeline arond zeez eventz agen, but I azzume I bort theez points up becorz Coheed looked liek he voz lurkink and Darox zeemed to be avoiding poztink content.

Ze main izzue I had here iz that imaginiality ignored theze tings, and insted decided to FOS caf vor zomthink that voz compleetly spekulatif. He iz arguink here zat he had trobel gettink reeds on players, but I do not zee thiz as an excuze to make reechy and unnezassary arguments.

3. Re. Sly's comment: I accept it vas a stretch and I vas tunnel on him zomvhat for the vhile. But I do not seeing vhy that is a concern. If scum, I vould know Sly was not scum, so I vould know he is likely truth-telling wif unlynchable claim, so vhy stretch to get him lynched?

To ze virst, maykink stretchy arguments iz a conzern becoz it iz ze scohmz hoo have to create their zuspekts. To ze zecond, zat iz WIFOM, yo.

[destructor]

Oh, as far as "being willing to show what [you] saw" that makes me seem town to you, was that your second post, or do you still have another reason to believe me town?

It voz mostly a lak ov anytink incredibly schommy and ze evidence I find ov joo intendink ze gambit.

I am goink to reed Kmd's large caze now.

[destructor]

Oh really? How did you foresee cow going about confirm this for you since he can't post today?

Iv Mirth konfirmed that Hazcow voz prodded, zen he vud not hav an eckskuze ov "mizzing zat post" vor not doink ze enalyziz.

I vil gazzer ze ekzampols of imaginality's posts tat I menshoned later today.

[destructor]

Bussing is not a provable event. It falls into the exact same category of "well, if he is scum..." Yes, if I were a scumbuddy with Darox, I would have been bussing. However, if I am town, then that is simply not true. There is no way of proving either event based purely on reading the vote-counts.

For these reasons, I do not understand how bussing can be used as your main tell. In my understanding, bussing as a term came about as an explanation of why scum would get rid of their partner.

Ziz here iz good. Yez, som peepol hav raized mynor schom tells ov Iyzak, bot zey are too mynor in my mind, cud azlo be don by town and ignor ze zings zat idicate zat Iyzak may be pro town (town tells). I feel vat he haz jost explayned to uz (his early PBPA of Darox) doz tromp much of ze minor schom tells on him.

I did reed kmd's caze on Iyzak. I find mozt ov it was made of tells zat are not partikularly strong. Ze distanzing is maybe notewhorthy, but see above. On point ten, I read that situation differently zoch that Iyzak's reakshon zeemed perhaps OMGUZy but not schommy at all.

I vud not be arguink against zis (or any) caze normally, but I beeliv zat ve ar goink down ze rong trak and ze schomz are gettink away.


I am rereadink imaginality now...

Here iz won ov ze posts zat I did not like:

Before I am lynched, other than myself, who do you (townies) find scummy?

Hmm. Intehrrrezting phrase - "you (townies)" = SlySly not townie?

Iz reechy, ezpecially because Sly noted ezpesholly in brakets.

Vhat vorries me most is, imprresion I get from re-rread: Isacc's posts gif a sense zat he places himself against town rather zan sees himself on same side as us.

Can joo show us vat posts made joo tink zis?

Got prodded, apologises. I vas waited to rrread the rrrrest of Darrrrrox's overrrrrrrrview but zhat ztill haz not yet to arrive...

As for ozzer stuff lately, Isacc's post yust above helps confirm my zense of Darox vas deliberrrately tryingk to zkate through day while prrovided little in ze vay of analyziz orr vote rrecord. Still very happy with my vote on him, think he good lynch for today.

I take Glork's side about destrrructor, who zeems to haf been fish/prezzure Glork to roleclaim and prezzing too hard (at this stage) on Glork for current inability to vote. Azide from hoping to get claim, destrructor may alzo haf been hoping if ozzer vagons fizzle out ve vould fall back on a 'lynch Glork he iss useless' lynch as deadline apprroaches.

Not sure about points against elvis, haf to re-read her posts again. At moment prrefer Darox lynch, also ok with destructor lynch. Feeling better about Isacc due to rrezent posts, now I tending to think hisss earrrlier aggrrreszzsion may been ankry townie razzer zan prezzured scum.

Inisholly I did not liek zis post. It looked liek imaginality voz borrowink Iyzak's reesonink for votink Darox. I voz thinkink zat ze schomz at this point vere Darox, imaginality and Glork, so his comments about des-Khan/Glork zeemed very schommy to me. It dozzen't look zo bad in retrospekt.

I did not liek his jump bak onto ze Iyzak wagon after kmd made his caze...
Imaginality, do you still tink ze caze on Iyzak is stronk?


Hmm.

---

Zom zorts zat I had vile tinkink zing over last night:
Plom and elvis probably aren't schomz toghether.
Plom and Iyzak probably aren't schomz toghether.
imaginality and Sly probably aren't schomz toghether.
Plom and Sly? - ?
imaginality and Sly? - ?
elvis and Sly? - ?
elvis and imaginaity? - ? (re-reeding, I notiz elvis made an attak on imaginiality at won point, so maybe not Post 432)

elvis as schomz I feel is decreezink ze likelihood of Plom- and imaginality-schomz. Tinkink furzur, hazcow-schom is decreezed olzo because of elvis' attack on him earlier. Zat is two out of my three livink inishol suspektz zat are unlikely to be ze schomz if elvis iz. Hrmm.

I vud find helpful iv ozzers can give comments on the pairinks I list obov.


I need to rereed hazcow. =/

[destructor]

Happy birzday imaginality!
Happy belayted birzday elvis!

You are playing this role much better than your original role, IMO. That makes me wonder if there is something special/scummy about des-Glork that is motivating you to play better.

LOL. I zort zat I voz playink worz, to be honest. Zere are a million zinks goink on in my hed and I feel liek I haf only been abel to zay a zmall amount of it and not vell at zat. Perhaps it is my lowered access zat is makink me post mor prezisely or somtink.

Which track do you think would be better to follow at this point over the Isacc one?

Havink zeen ze claim, I am seeink elvis as ze good lynch today. I do not find Iyzak's claim hard to beeliv given my reeds of him and Plom alredy. There is ze chance zat he voz roleblocked, but until ve see a roleblocker flip, zat iz not confirmed.

I vud liked to hav pursued a haz vagon today but I do not see it as gud play to be lynchink players who are not around to reply and claim. lol

I did olzo consider testink your unlynchability agen, but sortink my feelink of imaginality out voz my priority. I voz olzo conshus of ze deadline and zort zat it vud likely be a poor use ov our time. Old ground, etc. If joo are schom, I am zinking zat ve hav to deal vith joo in ozzer vays perhaps.

This sounds like des-Glork backtracking from earlier suspicions as des-Khan. des-Khan thought Darox (confirmed scum), imaginality and Glork were all scum, now des-Glork

slighty seems

to have bussed imaginality in your last post only to attempt to clear him with this post. At one point in the game, imaginality was my 1 scum candidate. I am kind of disappointed that your promised analysis of possible scum turns out to be a semi-clearing of him.

I vud not zay I cleered him, but I am seeink zat my initial reezonink voz not so stronk. I a ztill findink ze posts ov his on caf I referred to questionable, but I know zat the Glork-imaginality connection was ov my imaginashon.

Plom and elvis probably aren't schomz toghether.

(possible - they both gave caf a free pass for the day)

...
elvis and imaginaity? -

(possible, caf free pass giver/my former 1 scum candidate)

You have conveniently left off many possible pairings. No mention of caf, kmd or cow. You said you were going to reread cow, you may have more to add about him soon. Have you 100% cleared caf and kmd from your suspicions? If yes, why?

I hav not 100% cleared anywon, but I am zinking zat caf and kmd are town, yes. I generally avoid making soch comments about who I see as most town for obvios reesons. I explayned in day 1 vy I zort zat caf voz town. Kmd, has given me town vibes for most of ze game. His caze on and adamant attitude tovards Iyzak is odd (i.e. apparent tonneling) and it vud hav been gud to zee him comentink on the developments befor Iyzak's claim.

I hav not had ze time for reedink hazcow, but left him out becos I vanted to consider ze livink players first. I did consider haz and elvis, tho.

Liek Plom, I am interezted in seeink a caze on caf.

---

Expressing suspicions but not voting Darox is EXACTLY the way I would expect a bus to go down. You're trying to cover yourself for the future by expressing suspicion, but not actually voting guy, which might, you know, lead to your buddies death.

Is it not zat joo sed joo

know

zat Iyzak is kareful viz his votes? Vy iz it zat it iz a schomtell this time?

Isacc, EK could have hammered you if her suspicion was true about the majority count, her reluctance suggests townness, unless of course she is just acting to create that effect. I'm assuming EK is town from this action. That doesn't mean scuminess from her will be tolerated in the rest of the game and she should not considered herself immune from my suspicion.

Vud joo hav accepted elvis hammerink Iyzak vithout a claim as pro-town?


Zo, ya, if I had to vot for zomone ov you, it vud be elvis.

[destructor]

Had Isaac continued his refusal to claim, I would have supported the hammer. But I would have been suspicious of anyone (EK or anyone else) holding the hammer had Isacc flipped town.

Bot yoor reeson vor zinkink zat elvis is town is zat she did not hammer when she kood. Do you zink she vud hav zort she cud get avay vith hammerink as schom?

I dizagree vith ze critizism zat Iyzak vitholdink his claim voz anti-town (if he is indeed claimink honestly). It is pro-town to try not to klaim iv joor lynch is not inevitable, vich was throo of Iyzak.

Olzo, I disagree zat he vud hav been an equal target to schomz becos he did not claim immediately. I hav played in too games vhere a vanilla townie has refused to claim altogether becos they did not need to reeveel morr to schom. Coinzidentally, it one voz Glork in CT2 and ze other voz me myself in Weasel Mafia.

[destructor]

Elvis, vy is it zat joo did not answer my kveschon?

Sly, can joo explain vy imaginiality vos won ov joor top sospekts?

imaginality, joo are still votink Iyzak. Do joo still vant to lynch him? If not, vich of elvis or caf vud joo support ze lynching of?

caf, I do not know who it is joo vant to lynch now zat joo hav unvoted Iyzak. Vat are joo tinkink?

[destructor]

I am findink ze vagon on caf surprizink. Maybe I need to rereed to see vhere it is comink from. It is odd to me to see zis vagon growink ven zose hoo are on it seemed only to be talkink about lynching Iyzak beforehand vith fleetink menshons of caf.

I notiz zat elvis makes a comment zat she vants morr sobstanz vrom caf, yet she commented earlier zat a post of his, vich voz substanshol, contained many good points and she agreed vith zis. I am interested in seeink who elvis beeleeves is caf's schombuddy. (kvezchon is below)

I don't think I ever said that Isacc is careful with his votes. Isacc said that as his defense, and I questioned him about it. I'm not really sure it's true. I've played with Isacc before, and I don't remember noticing this. I haven't had time to look back at the game, but I don't remember it.

Joo are right. I misread post 1085.

@ Sly

, pleez anser my kvezchon from 1136.

Des, please explain post 1073 where you say you are "left with" Imaginality, Sly, and Cow. Are you saying one has to be scum? Why? Did you take Darox's flip (he is also in the list) into consideration?

I beeleeved zat all ze schomz were named in my list. As I voz abel to remove Glork from ze list, I vos "left vith" ze rest.


I am feelink zomvhat helpless right now. I vud honestly feel most comfortable vith imaginality's lynch, but I do not zee it happenink at all. elvis flippink schom vud give us a lot of info, I am zinking, and give us moch reeson to beeleeve imaginality is town, vich vud be grate vor my hed. If elvis and caf are boz town, I am tinkink zat ze schomz hav to be {Sly, hascow} or {imaginality, hascow}.

@ everywon vantink to lynch caf -

hoo do joo tink hiz schombuddy is?

caf, do joo hav a rolename? [preview edit: I see zat Plom asked ze same kvezchon]

[Preview edit 2: I see elvis has claimed.

Elviz, vy do joo assume no response meens a roleblock? Are joo supposed to receev a "resolt"?]

[destructor]

Hoo do joo tink is schomz vith caf?

[destructor]

I am havink von of my moments vhere I kvezchon everythink I beeleeved to be true ebout life, ze universe and my mafia games. It may have zomthink to do vith the vicious fever I have jost cort. On zat note,

Mod:

I have cort zom zort of illness. If I disappeer for a few days, it is likely becos I am lyink in bed and groanink.

It is very important to me zat imaginality, Sly and Kmd tell os who zey tink is caf's schombuddy. I beeleeve it vil give us moch informashon regardless of vich vay he flips.

I am interested zat elvis says she is lookink for "lady" love. Is it zat gender is important? Vhat iv ve gender claimed? Male/female/NA?

[destructor]

Zank joo very moch hazcow vor zat. My laptop battory is ebout to die so I caynot post moch.

Am not convinzed elvis is town eizer, but at ze least ve haf more chance of confirrrming orrr catchink elvis out if elvis is scom, I zink.

Vhat is it joo ment vith ziz?

[destructor]

I vud say ve haf won schom left.
I sospect zat elvis and des-Khan vere killed by a pro-town player.
A massclaim may be uzful, bot I vud prefor zat ve didont vor reesons zat may becom apparent iv ve do. I beeleev massclaim is appropriate iv ve do not lynch schom today.


Am am zinkink zat imaginality is ze schomiest player bot I had reesons vor beeleevink he was moor likely town iv elvis vos schom. I need to rereed to remember vy this voz.

[destructor]

Hokay, I found ze reeson: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 19#1464419

It iz not stronk one and cud eesily be distanzink since elvis did not follow it op. It seemed genuine to me becos imaginality's reply seemed sincere.

I am holdink onto my town reed of kmd but am slightly oneezy becos I do not recall him ever havink a problem vith elvis. He seemed only to vant to lynch Iyzak and I am considerink if he vos doink zis (appearink to tonnel) so he cud avoid commentink on his boddies. I vil need to rereed his interacshon vith Darox, I am tinkink.

Hazcow, I had som bad vibes from in day 1. I recol elvis accusink him of followink Iyzak's plan. Her akuzashon vos cleerly false and she vos schom. I beeleev zis is an interestink interacshon to compare vith elvis' attak on imaginality.

I voz gettink more pro-town feelink from sly in day 2. Only major concern I hav is zat he voted for caf over elvis and made a comment about elvis beink moor likely town vor somthink zat did not vorrant it.

[destructor]

Why would you guess SK over protown vig?

Yes, I vos vonderink zis last night olso. His soggeschon is (Mafia:SK:Survivor:Town) 2:1:1:8 insted ov 3:0:1:9. I am curious vy he vud say SK is more likely.

[destructor]

Joo are probably right.

I vud like ze claims to happen in an order somzink like this:
imaginality
Kmd
Hazcow
Sly
me
Plom

I olzo noticed zat no von is silenced today. Haz, do joo know vy joo vere silenced?

[destructor]

Privyet!

[destructor]

3:1:1:7 = with a Vig, Cop, and a smattering of unknown-as-yet powers, possible.

This puts us 1 away from a town win. I think this is the most likely scenario because every game I have ever been in that had a GF, there were 2 other scum. I don't know if this is how it always is, but that is how it has been in the games I have been a part of that had a GF. Has this been the experience of everyone else?

Not specifically in my experience, bot von GF and von ozzer Mafia is not impossible. However, I do not beleev zis is ze caze here.

1. I have reason to believe that mis-lynching a townie will be disastrous for the town today.
2. I think there is a good possibility that we are 1 person away from getting a town win.
3. I think a discussion of the claims could help expose the fake claim and ensure we lynch the non-townie today to claim the town victory.

I am very inexperienced at being this deep into a game. If I am missing something and a mass claim would more likely hurt the town, please speak up and educate me. If a mass claim is definitely a bad idea, I don't want to push it.

I zink zis is good reezonink.

Zere is von thing I am interezted in knowink

from everyvon:

Vud joo be willink to allow Plom to decide vezzer she shood claim at her own dizcreshon?

Olso, is everyvon happy to follow the claim order I soggested?

[destructor]

Wassup.

[destructor]

Sly, I vill onzer joor kveschon later. I vud like ze ozzers to respond first.

I am certain that Plom, haz and kmd are all postink around ze site. Vy are joo not postink here?

[destructor]

Kmd's torn to claim.

If we are claiming, I'd prefer to see you claim before Sly.

Vhy is this?

I vill need to spend som time lookink over imaginality's claim.

[destructor]

Hi!
imaginiality, how many targets did joo haf each night?

[destructor]

Necks

Lol.

I do not onderstand vhy joo vud haf bitten two players iv joo vere not sure vat joor bite did. That seems very risky.

[destructor]

Sly, is there anytink else about joor role joo haf to claim?

[destructor]

I am Fanya Baron, a Russian anarchizt revolushonary. I reject ze system and their elecshons. I vil vote for who I vant ven I vant. I am olzo supportink 'armed stroggle' and as soch, I may personally attempt to assassinate ze enemy. I am a vigilante. On ze first night, I killed des-Khan. On ze second I killed elvis.

I haf been weighink up ze merit of claiming ze rest of my role. It is, as Glork alluded to before me, somthink that is beneficial to ze town, bot only ven it is unknown. Once I claim it, it's effect vill be negated. I vud ask all of joo to decide. If joo beleev enoff that I am town, then I vil leev my claim at that vor now. Bot if joo vant to know, I vil claim it. I vil definitely claim it if I am alive tomorrow.

[destructor]

imaginality, vy on earth vud

anyvon

bredcrom SK? I do not know vat else joo are tryink to impy vith zat quote.

As vor ze rest ov it, I caynot imagine vy joo vud be receevink a chessbord vrom me. I am vonderink ebout how joo came to find ze informashon on Pichushkin.

I am vaitink for input vrom Sly and Kmd as to my claim and ve can go vrom zere.

[destructor]

Ze way I am seeink things:
imaginiality is town - he is havink sanity issues or ze items he receives are misleedink or random (bastard mod)
imaginilaity is schomz - he is lyink ebout his "theef" ability.

I beleev it may haf been obvious to many zay i vud claim vig. Can ozzers comment on zis vor me?

[destructor]

- Imaginality presents the difficulties posed by his claimed chessboard thievery as such that either he or Des must be lying scum, and votes Des.

So, Des, which of the possibilities do you think is more likely?
Additionally, what can we gather from the fact that Imaginality was fairly willing to go into a 'one of us must be lying scum' scenario whereas Des hasn't even come to a conclusion? I'm not sure myself. Des, Imaginality seems quite convinced that his stolen items aren't random, that he's a semi-viable flavor-Cop. Why do you still believe it's a fair possibility that the claimed chessboard was random?

I haf been ponderink about ze posibilities. I am actually takink imaginality's presentashon of ze results as slight town tells at ze momont.

There is ze possibility zat imaginality is schomz with a misleedink or random ability I did not list before. It certainly possible that he, as town or schomz, may beleev that he has caught a serial killer.

I asked ebout ze predictability of my vig claim becoz I voz considerink ze possibiilty that imaginality had set himself up to claim an incriminatink result on me. However, as I tink ebout it, I beleev lyink ebout havink a theef ability at this point in ze game as schomz seems counterintuitive unless he is plannnk to bloff himself out of ze lynch tomorrow. This has somethink to do vith me seeink zis claim as a minor town tell. I haf not seen imaginality play before, but if he confident as schomz, then then I vud not be seeink thinks ze same way.

As soch, my attenshon is movink back tovards hazcow and Kmd. I am goink to need to get those rereeds don.

[destructor]

I vill be postink somethink later tonight. I vant to get some rereedink done first.

Regardink this:

Maybe destructor is a zumvhat generric Rrrussian so is (i) communist and cannot vote

Vote: MeMe

[destructor]

Sincere apologies. Varios tinks came op that haf stopped me vrom gettink to read ze game. I haf som time set aside tomorrow night for this.

[destructor]

I haf not seen imaginality play before, but if he confident as schomz, then then I vud not be seeink thinks ze same way.

Are you working under the assumption that imaginality is not so gutsy as scum?

Given vat I haf seen ov his play in this game thus far and ze context in vich I made ze comment, yes. I noted in a later post that I'd made ze comment before considerink zat he may be schomz who really does haf a thief-like ability.

Basikolly, I do not see a situashon vhere imaginality is lyink about beink a thief as likely. If he is schomz, zen I beleef he has zat abiity, bot I do no immediately see it as likely schomz power. I realise I am makink assompshons vithout doink the meta-research zat vud be required... So, eh.

Des - if claiming the rest of your role will help convince us you're not scum (and you aren't actually scum), it may be beneficial or necessary to do so.

I am definitely considerink it given ze state of ze game.

I beleev it is best zat I full claim only if most of ze town vonts me to.

---

Doink som rereedink now.

Dahill's attack on Kmd might be a good place to start.

Darox

takes a jab at Kmd here.

elvis

does not comment on dahill's attack directly, but says this in Post 230:

I believe that scum give off tells in the random phase, but I also think that the weirder tha game, the less you can see as tells in the random phase. The more idiotic people are acting, the less you can make of the random phase. There is a high level of idiocy in this game. Therefor, I am not interested in looking for tells in the random phase.

Honeztly, dahill's attack on Kmd probably had moch moor to do vith him beink a lyncher than Kmd acktually beink schommy, so I caynot say elvis not givink ze argument moch heed is partikularly tellink. Bot if Kmd is schomz, she may haf been takink ze opportunity to pull steam vrom vhat might haf been a vagon.

imaginality's 239 still reads like a veak attack to me. I beleev I may haf gone over this before.

Darox

votes Kmd. (Post 249)

---

ooo. Glork-laid breadcromb.

I vood still like to vote for Pee Jay.

But why? Or does this just mean there aren't any actual people you want to vote for.

Vot? I am voting for ze bezht kandidates. Joo vood, too, if yours were left off ze ballott!

---

Hazcow's virst post ov kontent on replayzink in makes no mention of elvis, nor moch ebout Darox. He votes vor Iyzak.

Hmm. Looks like a new arc is startink here. I vill look into it moor tomorrow as I'm fallink asleep now.

[destructor]

I haf zort ebout it som moor and decided that I may as vell claim ze rest. I doubt schomz vud vant to kill me given imaginality's claim.

If anyvon kills me at night, they vill die. There is a menshon that this may only apply with

humans

.

There is no flavor justificashon vor this. It is jus there after it says I am a vigilante. Given zat I vos a pro-town killer, I do not expect any other killers to be pro-town. Hence, I beleev that ze only people who vud be killed by this are schomz.

[destructor]

As vell as me.


Can anyvon explain vhat Kmd has just claimed?

[destructor]

Kmd, vhen were you informed?

[destructor]

Kveschons:
1. Vy didn't you claim it then?
2. Can anyvon conceev this as beink ze result of anythink other than a day actshon?
3. Who tinks Kmd is fake-claimink schomz? *puts hand up*

[destructor]

ZOMG ITS IMAGINALITY!

[destructor]

I did not claim to be unnightkillobe.

[destructor]

psot

[destructor]

Important tinks to konsider:
How did Kmd bekom unlynchobel?
- Kmd and Sly, please reveal as moch of the flavor and mechanics associated vith joor abilities as possible? I beleev Kmd shud go virst.

Is Kmd unnighkillobel? Vos Sly unnightkillobel?

Could Kmd still be schomz?

Is there an expiry date on his apparont invulnerobiloty?

[destructor]

Des, if I was scum, I'd be guaranteed a win. That's unfair.

Vich is vhy we need to consider joo as unlynchobel bot possibly nightkillobel schomz. Soch a schomz is entirely conceevobel in a bastard mod game.

Vhat vos the flavor that came along vith joo invulnerability?

[destructor]

imaginality, do joo not tink that Kmd could be schomz?
If he is schomz and unlynchobel, how can ze town vin?

Plom, I am koncerned that joo vud equate joor role vith Iyzak's. Joor role is

meant

to receev a resolt. Iyzak's wasn't. Vhy should he, then, be told that he vos blocked?

[destructor]

psot

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I really don't tink that imaginality is schomz. Iv ve lynch cow, I vud moch rather not kill. That vil leev 4 alive tomorrow, instead ov 3, vich givs ze town more opshons (possibility of no lynch). It olzo means that I may be abol to kill Kmd on Night 4 iv his invulnerability is lost.

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I am olzo becomink concerned by ze nomber ov people who are creatink an imaginality/des dichotomy. Ze possibilities vor imaginalities resolts haf been discossed and he has even said himself that the chessboard may simply be a referonce of Russia and chess. This is easily conceevobol.

Vhat I am sayink is, if I am lynched, I do not beleev it is wise to immediatey assume, as Kmd has been pushink, zat imaginality is automaticolly schomz.

[destructor]

In fact, zat line of thought may well leed to a town loss.

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Good game. Well done Kmd. I really didn't think you were scum until the end there. In fact, I thought you were town until Day 3.

The claims in this game were insane. Sly's claim was awesome.

Did imaginality really have to wait for someone to post before he did? I didn't see anything implying that in his role pm.

I'm slightly regretful over lynching Darox, because I was enjoying his "who would win in a fight" questions. lol

Some fun trivia, Night 2 was pretty much a coin flip between killing elvis or imaginality. How this game would have been different if I'd gone the other way...

I had a lot of fun here and you guys were all great to play with. I'd be more than happy to play with any of you again.

And Mirth, you're crazy. <3