Mini 729 - WaTR Mafia - Game Over!

[Vi]

Confirming in.

Good evening, middle of hostile nowhere!

It looks like I'm going to have to claim first thing. Fair enough... I am

seafoam

. I'm a Miller, because people confuse me with Ocean Spray (that disgusting canned drink from the '90s).

...wait, I think I missed something. I signed up for Water Mafia, right? *reads cue card* I'll come in again.

------

All kidding aside, Prom King is about as retarded as his username would suggest, to the point of making me wish for Social Darwinist programs. My role PM explicitly states that I win when the bad guys are dead, which is obviously the Town win condition. I'm going to guess that making the game keep going until Day 6 is an alternative win condition for the Town, since it makes flavor sense and I'm really not sure why that would be in the rules in the first place otherwise.

I do not know freeko's alignment. Why did Prom King intervene and call him Town? Again, terminal idiot. Expect him to make a guest appearance in my rulesets.

An post with suspicions will be forthcoming. I remember not liking Korts for some reason when I was skimming the first time, but I don't remember why.

-----

Also, hi Juls!

[Vi]

Vi, are you saying you aren't a mason?

Ah, I forgot to mention that.
I am a Neighbor. I have not been explicitly told that freeko is pro-Town.
HOWEVER. Based on freeko's reaction to being outed as expressed in the QuickTopic I was given with my Role PM, I don't think he's Mafia.

[Vi]

Did PK know something you did not or was he just trying to get himself lynched?

The latter.

[Vi]

Vi, just so you know. The caravan reaches the destination town on the start of day 6. That is listed in the game rules.

I saw, but I haven't seen anything that specifically says that anything happens at that point. It's heavily implied, but I don't see anything "in writing".

Rereading now.

[Vi]

I'd better put this fire out now.

The reason you vote for PK is that I cannot confirm PK while PK can confirm me.

This post was made under the assumption that Prom King said HEY THIS GUY'S TOWN plain as day, and he was telling the honest and not-misguided truth about it (he wasn't).
Other than that, I don't see where freeko said that he was confirmed Town, except by Prom King's idiocy. In fact, he called himself third party (and I can understand why, but that's also false).

Nonetheless, I'm fascinated by how mislynching freeko gives you license to mislynch me as well.

Freeko says his role PM has an alternate win condition of making it to the next town, and Vi says his does not.

My Role PM's flavor says I only wish to get to the next Town.
It does not say anything game-mechanic-wise (as in, Your Win Condition Is) about doing so. However, I can see where the distinction could have been blurred based on the wording.

[Vi]

I like how thinly veiled this is getting.

Vote: Rhinox

(L-5)

If he's scum, we lynch Korts-scum for being his partner.
If he's Town, we lynch Korts-scum for feeding his wrongness.

See what I did there?

[Vi]

I acknowledge BSG's begging. However, there's still an appropriate target.

VI

Daykill: raider8169

-----

@Rhinox 373: All of that stems from two basic misunderstandings:
1) That our win condition is to survive until D6, with eliminating the bad guys being secondary. This is an understandable misreading (well, understandable to me because I can read my own Role, although I can't quote it to you) but, as mentioned earlier, not the case. Dare I ask if anyone else got a similar message in their flavor text?

2) Prom King claimed to confirm freeko as Town. freeko understandably had no idea what was going on with that, because my Role PM says absolutely nothing about a confirmed-Town partner and I'm willing to believe freeko's doesn't either. So here you have a conflict of interest for freeko - Prom King is calling freeko obvTown AND is "linked" to him, but at the same time is acting like obvscum who deserves a noose necklace.

The last part of your post is understandable, but freeko said it based on a misunderstanding.

If freeko is scum, I'm comfortable letting Vi live a while, but not as confirmed town.

What you said: If freeko is scum, Vi can live, but Vi is NOT confirmed Town.
What freeko read (based on his response): If freeko is scum, Vi is confirmed Town, but should be lynched anyway.

----

yeah... I see what you're saying, but

I think you're trying too hard.

Um, hello? You DO realize who you're talking to, right?

As I believe what I actually said was if freeko was scum, you've earned your right to live and NOT be tomorrow's lynch, but if freeko is town, then you're scum (see my last post for "Reasons why one of the 2 of you are lying").

And this is a no-win scenario, because I believe freeko is Town (if not confirmed Town).
If you're up in arms about someone lying, I've already covered that Prom King lied to you and everyone about having a confirmed partner, so there's really no mystery about it. But I don't think you're interested in who's lying, so long as one of us gets lynched.

Also, lining up lynches is *bad* in the general sense.

-----

You tell me yours and I will tell you mine. There will be no other terms or negotiation here.

Denied.

You will nameclaim - for yourself AND me - and you will do so with no further stipulation.
Nobody else has reason to claim right now, except you and me. And you can do it for both of us.

In addition, please keep in mind that I think you're pro-Town mostly for your response to being outed in the QuickTopic (paraphrase: "Prom King you @$$4@7 why did you do that? Now we just have to wait and see who gets NKd"). Your responses ITT are NOT reinforcing this. You can lash out less and try to justify yourself more any time now.

-----

From as far as I've gotten in my reread, I'm getting suspicious of raider for hanging out on the periphery of the game and generally being dispensable. So his cameo appearance in this argument is noted.

[Vi]

While BSG's question of what freeko's rolename is is a little weird, freeko's reaction is very unusual and quite scummy. I also don't like the negotiation of one name for another name; it gives me the notion that freeko wanted a pro-town rolename before he'd claim his own to check whether it would be accepted.

What do you think of my reaction to the same?

[Vi]

raider: We were told what kind of person our companion was in our Role PMs. I could answer my own question just as easily, but I'm not going to.

Who ARE you suspicious of, raider? (Sorry if you said this earlier, but again, I'm not done with my reread.)

[Vi]

freeko's claim is accurate. (Of course I have to be the sidekick )
Also @freeko: Flavor in theme games is generally not to be looked into too deeply. See previous question regarding this in 390.

[Vi]

Which is it?

The win condition plainly stated near the bottom of the role says I win when all threats are gone.
The flavor says I want to get to the next town.
Since apparently nobody knows what's going on with the whole getting-to-town thing that was mentioned in the topic post, I'm banking that the actual win condition (or at least the one worth being interested in) is the one that just happens to look an awful lot like the standard Town win condition.

Which is it?

Flavor Name: Merchant's companion
Role Name: Neighbor

[Vi]

Doubleposting to say that my avatar is now creeping ME out.

[Vi]

All right, here's my idea of what's going on. It's not terribly well-organized because I typed it to look good in the text box rather than in the post, but I think you can read it - all hard returns are separate thoughts.

-~-

RS's posts on Page 1 look seriously sketchy to me - the immediate explanation after posting his path choice followed by the bandwagon "random" on Korts. I obviously wasn't there for the post loss, so maybe someone can tell me if that was originally more random than it looks. I'm not sure what to make of 25 either.

My path chosing is a total null tell in every respect.

The mod himself stated its lack of importance. I mearly saw the game had started first.

RS later joined the Lunar_Tick wagon in 67 after L_T said he had mod-given info about which choices are better than others. Whoever replaces L_T needs to talk about this, pronto.

-~-

freeko's activity can basically be summed up as saying "don't hurt the newbie" while offering minimally-to-plainly-UNhelpful posts in a seemingly violent manner. 88 is a good example.

-~-

raider seems to like slipping by. His comments tend to be dispensable one-liners. Am I missing a meta here, or is this an obvious front for activity?

I am a reserved voter as in I normaly do not vote unless I have reason too. However I have learned its the people that toss their votes around that get people talking and in the end figure out the best people to lynch.

...

Vote MM

Keeping a vote on a claimed Mason is not cool. Granted he has not been cleared yet but it is worth of an unvote.

You mean after all that freeko business, you're just now finding a good reason to vote someone? Did it have to do with the three people who voted just before you did, perchance?~

-~-

Korts seems reasonable early on, though he also jumps on the L_T wagon at the first opportunity. And then he claims the world is fogging up in 101, when Occam begins to question said wagon.

I find it really annoying that you guys are making so much of a fuss about a clearly random, at least for now, choice.

What LT said, basically, is that there is no chance at all that it

wasn't

a random choice. Sure, chances are that it was, but there is no reason to exclude the possibility of scum motives.

This is weak. But not entirely dubious.
When Prom King softclaimed, Korts immediately jumped to the conclusion of having found a scumpair. I

wish

Mafia was that easy; you should know it's not.
Basically everything about Korts's reaction to Prom King + freeko looks opportunistic to me, to save time...

"Ugh. Mason claim from my two top mislynches. I'll see if I can salvage a cop investigation on them, though."

lol, this feeling. I know it well. (Although I usually think this when I'm Town... Does this make me a bad person?) I'm pretty sure I saw something like this in your reaction. And...

Wow.

unvote, vote: MonkeyMan

Old flames returning?

L-1

, please claim.

Good find, Rhinox. Someone hammer plz?

Right on the next wagon and driving it to a lynch.

I think cleric is supposed to be doctor applied to the theme. But on second thought, I can't imagine sheep as clerics.

THIS is interesting. Did you seriously think until me and freeko claimed that all the Townies were sheep? Excoos me for being incredulous here. With no sample Townie PM to base your judgment on, this either means your role is Sheep and your role PM has no indication that anyone else in the caravan is human,

OR

you have no idea who's in the Town

because you're not one of them.

vote: Prom King

Post or perish.

And... an L-2 vote to throw on the pile. My, my, mymymy.

-~-

Kiro 81 seems like the kind of waffley post scum would use to join an obvious wagon. (I recognize it because I've done it before myself ) Kiro is one of the bunch who came to mafiascum from the same place I did, and he reminds me of me (except with tact and skill) - always looks pro-Town, and is very thoughtful, but is almost never Mafia. And I think that last part is showing very much in 81.

I dislike how Juls' analysis of everyone is "suspicious, be on guard". This isn't necessarily a scumtell, but it's not a good position to be in.

-~-

Why are you still on LT's wagon? Do you feel it's justified?

That all depends on whether or not LT is scum.

Um, what?

Well, seeing as my vote was random and the first vote on LT, I'm not really part of the wagon. My vote should be analyzed separately from the rest of the bandwagon votes.

Um, what?

When not saying overtly suspicious things, Rhinox has come off as somewhat reasonable, to produce a generally uneasy read on him.

(And Juls, I know better than you do how good Rhinox is at this game )

-~-

BSG flew completely under my radar; I forgot she was in the game until 184. I'm not sure what to make of her.

-~-

Sipylus hasn't been readable to me.

--------------
~~~~~~~
--------------

Cool people to lynch, in order of decreasing importance:

Based on the L_T wagon:

Kiro/Juls
Rhinox
Korts
raider

Based on the RS conspiracy:

RS/Megaflareon
Korts
raider

Based on Prom King + freeko

Korts
Korts again
Rhinox
Juls
raider
Der Hammer

Unvote: Rhinox
Vote: Korts

(L-5)
:arrow: Claimed scum gogogo :arrow:

-----

Also and off-topic, as far as I can tell Neighbors are one of the most useless roles evar. I guess it helped in this case when mass reading comprehension failure took over, but when all you can do is talk to someone overnight without knowing their alignment, the best you can do is decide their alignment based on the night-talk... which is all kinds of unprovable.

P.S. Next game you mod, you should include a Dayvig named Right Said Fred, who must include the phrase "I'm too sexy" in every post

When Jailbreak is over, I'll poll everyone about what the next game's theme should be. An iPod theme is definitely one of the options

[Vi]

@Vi
I'd like to know what the difference is between me and Raider. According to you, I flew completely under your radar. You say sorta the same about Raider. So how come Raider is scummy to you, while having no read on me?

Because you ask questions like this and say more than one thing at a time.

@Vi
I can't see how PK could make a mistake like that. According to freeko, it's mentioned at his PM that he doesn't know what the allignment is of his partner. The same, according to you, is written in your PM. So I don't see how come PK was sure that freeko is innocent. I know you can't answer for PK, but do you perhaps have an explanation how he could have missed this?
And could you explain the part of '(if not confirmed Town)' said in post 390?

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity... and people who seem to enjoy throwing games. Have you heard of Gimbo, a.k.a. Puta Puta? (Look at his posts by themselves. Yes, I see the irony in him being Mafia and claiming Mason. There was no way in heck his scumpartners were going to touch that one. But apparently he did stuff like that regardless of alignment.)
The parenthesized side comment seems self-explanatory. I believe freeko is Town. I do not believe freeko is confirmed Town. The reasons why have been explained already.

------

Why aren't people voting Korts? Hur-ry, hur-ry, hur-ry, step right up. You can't get more of a slip than that. Two shots at the dunking booth for a quarter. Quit pushing, everyone gets a chance.

(I think DrippingGoofball is rubbing off on me.)

[Vi]

vote BSG

, but still exploring other routes as well.

Denial is the first stage, is it not?
Your reason for voting BSG bites*, and your seeming-ignorance of me OBVIOUSLY BANDWAGONING SOMEONE is out of place.

*Subject to change upon learning why BSG wanted to know the flavor per se. 'Doesn't change how you've attempted to answer this question for her though.

[Vi]

You guys are going to make me fail my tests! (procrastination is scum!) So, I did a re-read of Korts. I didn't like some of his decisions early on and I can't ignore Vi's point about him possibly outting himself and being a bandwagon whore. I am still not convinced of the masons but I am willing to accept the

possibility

of it being true. With that said,

Unvote, Vote: Korts (L-3)

This seems weak, like you'd much rather be beating the merchants around BUT

ooo look shiny wagon!

*follows the shiny thing*

----

Ok someone explain the korts bandwagon. I dont recall Korts doing anything that deserved to be lynched.

RTFP

Right now I think either Freeko or Vi are scum. Im

sure

the flavor is that one wants to make all the money for themselves or something and when no one is looking will take out the other person. I do not know which one and I have been back and forth between the two alot.

This warrants an

OMGUS: raider

And I'm not talking about a vote.

Not only are you saying one of us HAS to be scum, but you're going so far as to fabricate flavor to support it.
(This is similar to what Juls is doing, yes.)

---

You seem to have 5 people on your list of suitable lynches (6 if you count Der Hammer ).

*Korts
*Juls
*Someone yet to be determined (currently looking at Rhinox and raider; I'd like to see replacements before going further with this because that's 33% of the other players unaccounted for)

'Better?

---

Despite your usual verbosity you just jump on my wagon with an "oh yes, Korts is obvscum" comment.

This is actually true. 'Not entirely sure what this means per se.

[Vi]

FFS are there even enough people playing the game to secure a lynch right now?

There are, barely.

@mod: Look at that last vote count again.

o i c

~Fixed, thanks

[Vi]

Korts, I acknowledge I wasn't here before I replaced in, but the last time I saw someone hop onto a wagon to try to get the game to go someplace, that person was scum. (JDodge and afatchic are the scum in this case)

I am a sheep and I didn't have anything to imply that not every townie would be that. In fact I don't have anything solid now, either. MM was neutral, and the two of you (Vi, freeko) may still be scum together.

How is this not completely cut down by MonkeyMan's flip and the Neighbor claims? Are you suggesting that all Townies are sheep, and all humans are neutral or scum?

I'm somewhat interested in what kind of power role a sheep could be, but I think it can wait a little longer.
I'm not interested in moving my vote though.

[Vi]

My post 420 is actually an extension of post 419, I just didn't put the EBWOP at the top. So I was still being vebose. I voted you for the point Vi made about you slipping up and calling MM a sheep - I thought he had a good point - and for a bit of pressure, and Vi wanted to wagon you, so I thought I would see where it went. Plus, Vi said you claimed scum. Can't argue with that

(...)

unvote

Y'know, on most non-kiddie bicycles backpedaling doesn't actually do anything.

Back to BSG... BSG, why did you want to know freeko's flavor name? I was assuming you were asking for him to give his role name, I.E. mason or neighbor, to see if it was consistent with what Vi said.

In light of Rhinox 416, again, backpedaling.

Vi's expressed curiousity in what power you might have is noted.

Wow, what a horribly weak excuse for an attack. You'll notice I didn't ask for a claim; I was just amused by the potential for a Sheep role.

[Vi]

Your overreaction to my statement that WASN'T an attack, is now also noted.

What is this, Technicality Day? And I wasn't told ahead of time? How dare you slight me in such a way.
Your notation of my notation of your notation is, quite frankly,

noted

.

No, I don't view it as backpedalling... excuse me for humoring your attempt at a wagon on Korts.

"Humoring my attempt", right.
Also lol, you ARE backpedaling with regards to assuming BSG's motives.

That said, BSG needs to exist.

@Vi: forgot to add... so what are your intentions with the korts wagon... do you actually find him scummy, or were you just hunting for reactions?

You've been in too many of my completed games to not know better than to ask.
Of course I find Korts scummy. And you too

-----

VI

Oh my..

That should be Vi.. Sorry about that.

Daykill: freeko

Nonetheless...

Be very well aware that there are NO vanilla roles in this game. It was mentioned by the mod before that there are roles that may appear to be vanilla , but are anything but. I believe this point came up when MM went and fakeclaimed that he was vanilla early in the game. This was right after the cutscene where Korts dropped the hammer on MM on the first page for easy reading.

I know. Um... what does this have to do with anything?

-----

I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that.

Why?
(Also, it occurs to me that you people set a

sheep

up to watch camp last night.)

-----

hmmm... don't know what to make of this post. On the surface, its rolefishing. However, he might be completely honest here... wolves might be told to go after the sheep, so someone with a role as wolf would both know that sheep exist, and suspect that sheep are town (assuming wolf would be a scum role)... The "mafia" in this game might be a pack of wolves, or there might be a different mafia group, and a lone wolf sk type who's wincon is to eliminate the sheep... I remember someone talking about wolves before, going to go see if I can find out who.

Super-awesome flavor-based suspicion

go

~

-----

This was meant to be a jab at me but I have to be honest, I LOL'd. I laughed because I always use this against

my husband

when he isn't paying attention to what I am saying or changes the conversation...I say "did you see a shiny penny or something?" LOL.

O.O
I'm so used to being older than everyone I've met thus far on the Internet that it still surprises me to hear about married couples.

Well since the wagon appears to have deteriorated, I wanted to try to put a little pressure on Korts for his statements and see how he would react.

This excuse is getting a little worn out, isn't it?

What is most troubling is this confusion started when Vi entered the game. I have only played as Vi's scumbuddy and confusion is obviously a scum tactic.

This is the most hilariously bad thing I've read all game. (Prom King's posts were bad, but not hilarious.)

The confusion started because 1) I clarified obvious misconceptions about my role and freeko's, 2) I disrupted the mislynch that you had going, and 3) I began pursuing other people, which was against the status quo of the whole day.

That's what I should be doing when I replace in for someone who's about to be lynched for being a fool.

The part about you only knowing me as a scumbuddy is an ironic irrelevant detail, because that would mean that you in particular should know that I was a cream puff in Mafia 87. (Yes, Rhinox had me on meta. Though from D2 until Jah00do replaced in the game really was boring as what-have-you; I don't think I would have done much better as Town.)

Meanwhile, I think you're obvscum - partly for trying to push that on me after coming off a wagon I started, partly for Kiro's votes, and partly for what armlx noticed about me in Mafia 87 - you just

happen

to get the third vote on the wagon these days.

Korts - 4 (Vi, Rhinox, Juls, freeko)

'sup

Rhinox - 3 (Vi, Freeko, Korts)

Wait, you're not voting here. Is it Rhinox that kept you away? Hmm... oh wait.

Freeko - 2 (Rhinox, BSG)

Vote: freeko

There

we are.

Prom King - 4 (BSG, Juls, Rhinox, Korts)

Oh wait, it's Rhinox this time. But he's sketch too. And look, you're right before him.
(Also, every time I see Prom King in Jebus's green italics I misread it as "Porn King". I have no idea why; I'm not like that.)

------
~~~
------

raider seems to be taking Korts's side on this for some role-based reason. While I have some amount of skepticism about the matter, I'm more comfortable with raider than Rhinox, frankly, so

Unvote: Korts

Vote: Juls

(L-5)

[Vi]

I'm going to unvote for now. I'm intrigued that raider is backing up Korts claim.

Where did he claim? I must have missed something.

Baa-a-a-a~

[Vi]

Um, freeko dearest, you DO realize where that whole "slip" thing came from, right?

[Vi]

VI

I think everyone else had better duck for this one too. This bullet's unleaded.

Daykill: raider8169

That was my mistake, but what do you think it means?

Uh, isn't this obvious? I think you were trying to push an explanation onto BSG. That's --scummy--.

That being said, will you please tell me why flavor-fishing is a crap excuse for a vote on BSG?

Asking for a more full claim from someone whose existing claim is highly dubious is scummy?

Well, you've called everyone who's active scummy, pretty much. (Juls, Me, Korts, Raider, and to lessar extents BSG and Freeko).

Scummy, sure. People I want to lynch? That cuts that in less than half now that Korts has someone covering him.

Suggesting that my suspicion on you is even partly grounded in personal bias is, like, a

totally

awesome straw man and mildly insulting. I'd random vote you, sure (though it would be because you never answered the question about the puppy in the last game), but I'm more interested in finding scum than settling personal vendettas.
Not replacing in for obvSKs would probably help this, BTW

Also, I can't get the enjoyment out of your daykill until I'm home from work and away from the content filter I'm suprised youtube is blocked, but mafiascum/message boards aren't...

Wait, so you're posting these walls on the job? Quick, what do you do for a living? *gets ready to take notes* [/onlyhalfjoking]

Not true... did you not read the whole thread, or just the part where korts watched without the town's blessing?

I read it. It's called a "joke", a peculiarity of my geographical region.

All the cool kids were doing it

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between a contradiction of ideas of who's Town and fabricating flavor to tack onto existing claims that twists them into being false.
I've never been one for setup speculation, either.

Hey! since when does being married equal being old??? I'll be 25 when my big day comes in June, and my parents were 19 and 21 when they tied the knot...

OMGUS: Vi

-.-;;
This is so weird...

what do you have to say about freeko's reasoning for jumping on korts' wagon? (because the rest of us seemed serious about it, to see if korts was lying)

I will say in general that I agree with Korts 458.

The reason for suspecting Korts at the beginning of the day was defies logic in the four dimensions we reside in. However, I can see that he was basically suspicious of you and Korts for whatever reason during the day. It's not a solid reason by any means, but at least I can see where he's coming from.

Remember, my meta is that you are ruthless in attacks when you're town, but your ruthlessness is directed towards only the person you think is scum - not everybody in the thread... You've kinda been all over the place so far ITT.

Joining every wagon in that Newbie game doesn't count as being all over the place?

FFS

I admit I have no idea what this means, but something tells me I don't want to know.

I didn't even think Vi was being serious when he started the wagon on you? Korts claimed scum, go go go, ring any bells? How about: "Why aren't people voting Korts? Hur-ry, hur-ry, hur-ry, step right up. You can't get more of a slip than that. Two shots at the dunking booth for a quarter. Quit pushing, everyone gets a chance." Or even this one directed at me: "and your seeming-ignorance of me OBVIOUSLY BANDWAGONING SOMEONE is out of place."

And here I'd have thought you knew me better by now. I would jokingly talk like I'm bandwagoning someone, but I wouldn't vote someone unless I were serious about it (unless I unvoted in the same post).

So Vi goads everyone into voting you, on what was obviously aparent not a 100% serious wagon, and looked like a good oppertunity for a pressure-utility wagon, and then you

[Korts]

and

him

have the balls to say "Ha! gotcha opportunistic scum?"

Really... Me? Am I the "him" in question? I don't remember ever saying that.

...opportunistic scum

[Vi]

Posting to say

1) freeko, you're going the wrong way. It would be most unkind for you to waste the second chance at life I gave you.
2) BSG's video looks like something forbiddanlight would be into. Also, you're ZazieR's sister, right? Ignore everything she says about me. ...Wait. Ignore everything

bad

she says about me.
3) More pointless

ad hominem

and taunting with Rhinox (with the occasional on-topic point) will come later.

[Vi]

I'm perfect for this game; I have no social graces

I could go lobbying for some more replacements. still 2 of them right? I know a couple mods who owe me favors for replacing into their games

I'm counting my replacement in here on YOUR tab, btw. (Actually, this is foiled somewhat because you already pre-/inned for my next game... hmm...)

80lb lapdog

o.o
That's most of my body weight. I feel more two-dimensional already.

hmmmm... so you DO have a vendetta with me then

Well...

(why doesn't this site have an smiley)

Actually, now that you (Juls) mention it I remember hearing something about Moratorium's IRL life... I guess that was it. This is the first time in a long while people have made me consider myself "young" though, IRL or otherwise...
And catching "glimpses" of people through the Internet is kind of fascinating tbh. It's probably not good to make a big deal of it in a game where everyone's supposed to be suspicious of everyone else, though :v

Also, I refuse to conform to your collective FFSing.

------
~~~
------

You have said a few things that are still inconsistent

Such as?

This.

Scummy, sure. People I want to lynch? That cuts that in less than half now that Korts has someone covering him.

This.

I said that I knew freeko would follow Vi because ever since Vi joined the game he has followed pretty close to everything Vi has said. It reminds me of a school kid that is being bullied and his mommy comes in to save him and he is standing there boldy in her shadow saying "yeah..see! I told you!" So yeah, I knew he would do whatever Vi did.

I will agree that the vote wasn't entirely surprising.
That said, Mother dearest is letting the school kid get what's coming to him at this point. Experience is the best teacher~

-----

If no one else claims sheep then Korts is confirmed sheep.

This is a first.
I've heard of confirmed Town, confirmed scum, and Confirmed for Brawl, but not confirmed Sheep

-----

Vi, I've got to give you props. You're pulling out all the

stops

this time...

Oh,

stop

.
Why the congratulation, though?

Yes, absolutely, especially in theme games. In theme games, when scum don't have safe claims to make, scum need all the help they can get flavor wise in order to make a convincing fake claim. I'll use Meerkat Manor Mafia as my evidence for that, as someone recognized a scum day 1 due to flavor fishing. You replaced into that game didn't you? go back and read through late D1 I think, after mafiamann claimed.

Actually, we never saw the scum Role PMs, so I don't know if there were falseclaims out there or not.
I have no idea what ClockworkRuse was trying to do though, as Cass pointed out that a name-counter-claim would be highly unlikely.

The point being that I'm really not seeing this.

Its only a straw man if it was the only thing I was using to try to deflect your attacks. In fact, this comment by you is just as much of a strawman meant to deflect my defenses.

Um... no, actually.

Oh... you mean kinda like raider did with the merchant backstabber scenario?

Yep.
I called him on that too.

Uhh... So if my vote on Korts isn't causing you to suspect me right now, then what is?

The absolutely hideous reason for voting freeko, and associated lining up of lynches. The cryptic responses to questioning about the Lunar_Tick wagon. The shoving of words into BSG's mouth regarding the claim request. The being scum.

Its only backpedaling if you think I'm scum and

know

korts is town and... wait for it... opportunistically jumped on korts' wagon, before backpedaling away from it...

no

Question @Rhinox, Juls, and raider: Who's suspicious -

other

than me or freeko?

-----

And Rhinox, I'd like to know what is more scummier to you: Asking for a role name trade (like freeko did) or 'fishing' for a flavor name (like I did)?

Objection!

I'm going to be honest - maybe it's because I don't have anything to lose but this dancing-around-what-our-roles-are bit is getting old. I'm not asking for a massclaim, but seriously, I'm getting sick of the vague attacks and defenses based on private information.

-----

BTW what are you basing your "wolf in sheep's clothing" theory on, other than an insistance that I can't be anything else than scum?

Probably something Juls said in 425

[Vi]

Probably something Juls said in 425

Maybe you should check your buddy freeko in 410. I probably won't say it again (ever) but what freeko said actually made sense!

*trip*
*fall*
'Didn't remember that at all.

[Vi]

I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that.

It seemed to fit the picture I was expecting regarding someone having a sheep role.

I knew that Korts said something sheep like before but I took that originally as he was trying to draw out the sheep.

How?

-----

Now snap back over to this game.

We know, or at least don't have any reason to assume

that scum have safe fake names included in their role PM.

This makes me VERY uneasy. Which is it, and why?

So, BSG asks for a flavor name. Why? Same two options as before...

1) BSG wants to compare the flavor name in freeko's and Vi's claim to her own flavor name to see if freeko and Vi's claim is believable (I'm not saying BSG has the same flavor name, I'm saying that she's comparing more the flavor, than the name itself. Does Merchant make sense as a town role, taking into consideration whatever her town role name is?)

-or-

2) BSG is scum, say, a wolf. (Not saying I have any reason to believe all scum are wolves, but then again, I have no reason to believe they aren't). Later in the game, BSG might have to fake claim something to save herself. Without knowing anything about any of the town roles, how would she have any idea of a flavor name to use for her role? Thats why specifically asking for a flavor name is kinda scummy. For a while, scum could only assume sheep were town roles (due to the N0 flavor kill, and Occam mentioned something about sheep on cliffs). Thats why everyone should be suspicious of Korts claiming sheep, regardless of whether or not raider can confirm there are sheep in the game. Now scum also know there are non-sheep town roles, since freeko and Vi are merchant/companion. In other words, before freeko and Vi's flavor names were revealed, scum had no reason to believe there were any town flavor names other than sheep. Now, they have more flexibility in fake claiming later knowing they can come up with something other than sheep.

Now consider BSG's quote above. She flat out denies that she was asking due to option 1. So, its either option 2, or some other role specific option that I can't possibly know since I don't know BSGs role.

I'm pretty sure she flat-out denied Option 2.

And based upon the information I have received in my PM, I can tell you that scum don't have a reason to flavor fish names...

Interestingly, this contradicts what you (Rhinox) said earlier about not being able to assume scum have safeclaims. I think Battlestar Galactica needs to give some input on this.

I want everyone to think very carefully and ask themselves this question: Did my vote on Korts really appear to be made with the intention of lynching korts? Vi, look at my votes in mafia 87

In Mafia 87, I recall you wanted to lynch all the people you voted for... which you should have, given that you replaced in D4

-----

In post game discussion, players insisted that it was a valid tell, but based on my own experiences and games, I have nothing to suggest that lynching someone because they were the 3rd vote on (almost) every wagon in the game increases the chances of lynching scum.

I'm going on my extremely limited experience as Mafia here. This is what I have heard (as has everyone) and what I've observed of my own tendencies.

-----

I don't think now is the time to consider policy lynching inactives, unless we have reason to believe that every active player is town.

I agree with this, with the addition that I find it very unlikely that everyone present 'n' active is notScum.

(Noticeable caveat: Jebus is correct that Lunar_Tick neglected this game for a while while winning as scum elsewhere.)

-----

Hmm... Rhinox... what a pretty name... hehe

'Mind if I give your kid a much classier two-letter nickname?

Regarding all the non-game discussion we seem to be having: I actually kind of like it, so long as its not distracting us from the business part of the game. It makes the game seem to have another dimension to it, as I feel like I "know" a little bit who i'm playing with. I just hope it doesn't cause any hurt feelings if things get heated later on. I don't want anything to get personal, so to speak.

I'm fairly sure in my case if I were to get personal with you, I would have already
Actually, even people you've never played with have told me you are cool, so I think you're in the clear.

However, you should also know I would replace into any of your games without even having to think about it.

I'll try to make my games notFail then.

Why is it that whenever I play in games with masons, the masons play the scummiest and are forced to reveal themselves D1...

Why is it that whenever I play in games with masons, I wind up being one of them and they're never confirmed... and yes, at least one gets outed D1...

-----

I might as well have been talking to my dog... would have gotten more of a response

Woof.

I can understand what you're saying about that freeko vote.

However, that other freeko vote D1 (Page 6) looks like what you tried to pull on Korts just now - big wall about something else, vote someone unrelated, explain shortly afterward. Was that your intention (re: the freeko vote)?

-----

Are you saying you've never voted for/wagoned someone with an intention to get reactions from other players, without intending to lynch the person being wagoned?

Well, I have, actually. As scum
Usually I want to get a reaction out of the person I'm voting for. But I digress; I see your rationale. The question is, are scum more likely to set these kinds of traps?

-----

1) How was I putting words into BSG's mouth?
2) What words was I putting into BSG's mouth?
3) What is scummy about it?
4) Also, explain in what context was a backpedaling. Yes, I voted korts, then backed away. Explain to me the context of whats so scummy about that.

1) 2) 3) Now that I see where you're coming from, I... actually have no idea what I was talking about.
4) It comes down to WIFOM. Were you really fishing for reactions, or were you interested in Korts' lynch? Did you expect to get called for your baseless vote, or not? What kind of pressure comes from a baseless

Unvote; Vote Korts

? Your explanation seems to be a cop out. But because of how unlikely it was that you could actually get away with that, I'm willing to let it go by as a null-tell for now.
Do you think Juls was fishing for reactions as well?

-----

I don't remember L_T saying he had mod-giving info about the choices, I think L_T incinuated that there might be mod-given info in some people's roles (I.E. RS) about picking paths, and he said so in a scummy role fishing kind or way.

L_T 66?

-----

This sounds an awful lot like asking for a mass claim, while saying you're not asking for a mass claim. You figure you claimed, so everyone else might as well?

Not quite. I'm sick of the airs of mystery around the sheep and the other sheep and the shepherd and the merchants and the role-given information about safeclaims(?) and the lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) and so forth. It's getting annoying quickly.
At the same time, that sounds like a personal problem I can get over. But I still like complaining, because, well, complaining. Having already claimed just adds a twinge of bitterness to it~

-----

I missed this in Vi's post. I have little nuggets of suspicions on several people and there are a couple of people that I haven't found anything to be suspicious at all. I would say my post 283 is still a fairly accurate indication of my suspicions more or less.

So... everyone is scummy, at best neutral, or absent?

-----

This is part of why I am looking towards you as possible scum. I have said my case as to why I think Kort is town and all the people that have not acted apon it are the people I am looking towards as possible scum. I can understand why people are not taking what I am saying as fact because I am sure I do not seem like the most townie person to them and that Korts does not either. Also yes your vote did seem to made with the intention of lynching korts.

This doesn't seem to flow well.
Rhinox is scum because he voted Korts with the intention to lynch him... in spite of the fact that you defended Korts...

after the fact

.

-----

Welcome TonyMontana. I like this new avatar better than the last one, btw. And interesting gimmick with your game; reading through the first few pages I wish I was in it.

Now post. *kick*

-----

Either way, I suppose I should take a closer look at juls, since she is the only active player I haven't looked closely at - mainly for what I thought was a town tell in one of her first posts. However, this tell was contradicted in one of her recent posts

So what's the tell?

most of the town is hungry for blood

rawr

(Now to put that in context~)

I did think that the quick growth of the wagon was odd... but it tells me some things... either most of the town is hungry for blood, there really is some basis for the wagon, or there are scum on the wagon. I find it more odd that the player who unvoted and admitted that he didn't think there was much basis for the wagon going to claim/lynch territory (me) is the one everyone is finding scummy for doing so... Korts, do you think there is justification behind the wagon that formed on you?

After Korts answers this question, I would like for you to narrow down which of these options you think is most likely.

-----

Freeko, this is like the third or fourth time you have requested role information. Do you realize that doing so is anti-town? Do you realize that scum can read this board too and thus get to see the role information as well? Why are you so determined to get others roles and how do you think doing so benefits town? And how do you think this information will help you find scum? I would appreciate if you could answer all these questions.

Where are you going with this?

-----

Ok. I will answer them all.

1)blahblah
2)shocker
3)look up at my last post
4)look up some more at it.

Hey Shepherd Guy. Can I borrow that crook so I can beat someone over the head?
Seriously, I don't follow what you (freeko) are saying here.

Alternatively, what Juls 508 said.

[Vi]

EBWOP:

I agree with this, with the addition that I find it very unlikely that everyone present

'n' active

is notScum.

It would be more correct to say that I seriously doubt TonyMontana, Lunar_Tick, and Megaflareon are all Mafia; and by extension everyone here is Town.
Three-plus lurking scum? Sure, it happened in Serum and Steel. Three-plus flaking scum? Possible but not nearly as likely.

Also, anything that looked like a vote in that previous post must have been a typo or something. Dunno how that happened.

Unvote; Vote Juls

[Vi]

Is it because I use a capitial "I" or something. I have been daykilled a few times now and I if that is not the reason I am confused.

Yep.

For the record, VI stands for Village Idiot.

Now die.

Daykill: raider8169

Actual post to come once I deal with the games that I've been neglecting.

[Vi]

Is it because I use a capitial "I" or something. I have been daykilled a few times now and I if that is not the reason I am confused.

Yep.

For the record, VI stands for Village Idiot.

Now die.

Daykill: raider8169

Actual post to come once I deal with the games that I've been neglecting.

Ahh, I understand. That doesnt explain why you dont like it capitialized.

Also, according to the link you are scum...

Read through the edits to that page, and apparently I could be DrippingGoofball too.

Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing...

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-10

Korts - 1 (freeko)
Rhinox - 1 (Korts)
Freeko - 1 (BSG)
Juls - 1 (Vi)

Not Voting - 6 (Megaflareon, Lunar_Tick, TonyMontana, Raider, Rhinox, Juls)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Currently seeking a replacement for Lunar Tick and Megaflareon, in that order.

Deadline is in 10 Days, in case you happen to be wondering.

[Vi]

The Korts wagon was turned away by raider claiming inside info that says something to the effect of Sheep = probTown.

[Vi]

Can we lynch korts now so I can die happy?

Why/How do you expect to die?

[Vi]

btw, was an explanation given for there being a limited reveal in the deaths so far?

Flavor is flavor, ignore!

It's easiest to assume that Occam has snuffed it. It's what I feel is most likely given how Mafia games usually work (that and the Doctor was lynched D1).

[Vi]

While I agree freeko is acting very anti-town, I must concede that Vi's "confirmation" of freeko is every bit as, if not even more, credible as yours of korts.

unvote

I agree, only niether has been confirmed as town. I have a good idea that the sheep is town so I like to think my information is a little more confirmed however I am sure I am the only one that believes that.

Similarly, from freeko's response to being outed in the QuickTopic I believe freeko is Town and do not advocate his lynch... though I understand the temptation.

freeko. Answer my question.

From the way he acted before the lynch, i find it highly unlikely that he was a doc. (saying he could easily prove his power, for instance) Cleric is a kind of Priest. Priest, according to wiki, is a player unable to place the lynching vote on someone. I'd say that is an easily provable claim. Pagan, has a third-party (/neutral) cling to it.

Or you can cheat and read what THE MOD SAID.

MonkeyMan was an indifferent doctor, and being a Pagan and not with the church, he was also hated by you, only six votes to lynch.

[Vi]

@freeko:

Can we lynch korts now so I can die happy?

Why/How do you expect to die?

[Vi]

IF I am somehow wrong on this, then I dont mind being lynched day 3.

Reality cheque. If there are three Mafia - which I expect - then tomorrow is LyLo. Signing up to be the LyLo lynch is

bad

.

Also, you

still

haven't answered my question (which I quoted for you some time ago). Though at this point your repeated ignorance of it matters more than the answer.

-----

Also waiting for BSG's answer to Rhinox.

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-12

Freeko - 3 (BSG, Raider, Korts)
Korts - 1 (freeko)
Juls - 1 (Vi)

Not Voting - 5 (Megaflareon, afatchic, Rhinox, Juls, TonyMontana)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Currently seeking a replacement for Megaflareon.

Deadline is in 8 Days, in case you happen to be wondering.

[Vi]

EBWOP:

If there are three Mafia - which I expect - then tomorrow is LyLo

"if you are somehow wrong on this"

.

This was kind of implied, but I don't feel like getting nitpicked.

[Vi]

Actually, you just accidentally answered me.

I full well know that

I wont live past this day

one way or another. If the scum fail in their plan to lynch one of the masons (excuse me neighbors i guess is more correct), then they have to at least carry out the other half and

NK one of us.

Not to rain on your parade,

but

...

[Vi]

Again, I have four people on that list that I felt were suspicious/scummy: Vi(PK), freeko, Korts, and raider.

What a coincidence! All of them are being covered for by other people. 'Time to look elsewhere, ne?

If we went through the day and gave Vi/freeko a pass and then Occam didn't come back then where would be?

I don't understand this.

-----

Is this because you're scum and you have a safe fake name? In my town PM there is nothing to indicate that scum wouldn't have a reason to fish for names...

Quit stealing my better arguments

What I am learning is as town, I tend to be more relaxed, arrogant, and cyptic when there are no votes on me, but when I get wagoned, I become a little more stressed, humbled, and straightforward. I see some similarities in how korts has been posting most of the game towards the former, so I thought more votes on korts would give us a post more like the latter. And I think it worked - I could absolutely tell a completely different tone in korts post after the wagon than before. I liked what i heard, so I unvoted.

So for the record, do you find Korts suspicious?

So reading the rest of 514, I have no idea why you're not voting Juls. Well?

-----

FFS

Fixed.

I said this:
"I can't imagine sheep as clerics."
Where cleric is a rolename and not a role.

I can't imagine sheep as Cops or Trackers either
So the logic kind of breaks down here, considering this game is supposed to be vanillaless.

I thought my thorough defense of my actions had something to do with it

I'm sorry, did you say something?

-----

Shortly put I'm having a more difficult time believing the whole sheep/shepherd thing now that Jebus has cleared up that he's not one of them. Would anyone like to claim Sheep 2? (other than Occam posthumously)

-----

I did not finsih my letter last time as I had to

chaperone

a

college

valentines day semi-formal dance.

This should answer some question from a while ago.

Anyway, a friendly reminder to freeko... this game is supposed to be vanillaless. In other words, a sheep is, if not a power role, manipulable by some other power role.

-----

freeko, that is some bullshit case. Most of the things you bring up are at best nulltells, and the rest speculation.

Nevertheless your conviction probably wouldn't be this strong if you were scum; the one thing I'm asking is don't tunnel in on me. You can be voting me, you can try to lynch me all you want, but you should not be ignoring other cases. That is NOT pro-town.

unvote, vote: Rhinox

You're right, Rhinox IS obvscum.

Unvote; Vote: Korts

[Vi]

It appears my previous post had another typo in it.

Unvote; Vote: Juls

[Vi]

Kiro 81 seems like the kind of waffley post scum would use to join an obvious wagon. (I recognize it because I've done it before myself ) Kiro is one of the bunch who came to mafiascum from the same place I did, and he reminds me of me (except with tact and skill) - always looks pro-Town, and is very thoughtful, but is almost never Mafia. And I think that last part is showing very much in 81.

Unconvincing vote on Korts

What is most troubling is this confusion started when Vi entered the game. I have only played as Vi's scumbuddy and confusion is obviously a scum tactic.

This is the most hilariously bad thing I've read all game. (Prom King's posts were bad, but not hilarious.)

The confusion started because 1) I clarified obvious misconceptions about my role and freeko's, 2) I disrupted the mislynch that you had going, and 3) I began pursuing other people, which was against the status quo of the whole day.

That's what I should be doing when I replace in for someone who's about to be lynched for being a fool.

The part about you only knowing me as a scumbuddy is an ironic irrelevant detail, because that would mean that you in particular should know that I was a cream puff in Mafia 87. (Yes, Rhinox had me on meta. Though from D2 until Jah00do replaced in the game really was boring as what-have-you; I don't think I would have done much better as Town.)

What a coincidence! All of

[your suspects]

are being covered for by other people. 'Time to look elsewhere, ne?

[Vi]

Vi, what is your purpose in stating that Rhinox is indeed obvscum if you go and vote Juls?

It's a running gag; pay no mind.

[Vi]

Vi, what is your purpose in stating that Rhinox is indeed obvscum if you go and vote Juls?

It's a running gag; pay no mind.

I'm always obvscum hehe.

Actually, I was combining two thoughts--
1)

and you're right. Korts is obvscum. Way scummier than BSG.

unvote, vote korts

2)

What kind of pressure comes from a baseless

Unvote; Vote Korts

?

Also, anything that looked like a vote in that previous post must have been a typo or something. Dunno how that happened.

Unvote; Vote Juls

Meh, explaining a joke takes the funny out of it, but there you go.

----

So Rhinox, you say you're up in the air about Korts, Juls, BSG, and three other players. Are you even going in some direction with this game?

It also seems his last vote on freeko was more of just a feeler to see if anyone would follow to lynch freeko for being... well, freeko.

What do you think of his unvote, then?

also, Vi, curse you for making me feel obligated to include post numbers in my quote boxes... grrr.

im in ur mafiascum, revolutionizin ur notation

----

Korts. My response to Korts 530 in post 590. Elaborate.

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-12+1

Freeko - 2 (BSG, Raider)
Korts - 1 (freeko)
Juls - 1 (Vi)
Rhinox - 1 (Korts)

Not Voting - 5 (tubby216, afatchic, Rhinox, Juls, TonyMontana)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in 7 Days, in case you happen to be wondering.

[Vi]

Im sure the flavor is that one wants to make all the money for themselves or something and when no one is looking will take out the other person.

Yep, strike 2 on the outside corner. Already an 0-2 count, guess its time to get a little defensive. Gotta expand the zone and make sure you dont strike out now. Anyways, seems the pitcher took his sign and here is the windup. The pitch...

So I am guessing flavor, I enjoy doing that as this is a well thought out game. Whats wrong with that? I am not guessing your role just explaining how it is possible that you could be scum while Vi could be town or vice virsa, explain how there is anything wrong with this.

Actually, I had forgotten about this quote. And it strikes me how when someone else claims merchants, you immediately suggest that one is guaranteed scum. But when it comes to Korts, you suggest that "you think" he is Town based on your own guessing. 'Pretty one-sided on the flavor-guessing, ne? For me to do the same as you did, I would have to suggest that Shepherd (which is what I'm assuming you are) is the same as a Godfather.
Moreover, I said WHY I believe freeko is Town. You haven't actually produced a paraphrase that would suggest why you think Korts is Town.

Bottom line: Outguessing the setup fails (or it should in any game that's competently made). You are scummy for trying to do so for purposes of an accusation.

I am not able to talk with anyone else, but wait you can. Is Vi "coaching" you on this one?

No dice. No daytalk. And while this line of commentary/frothing accusation is amusing, I trust you've seen that I don't view this sort of behavior as a Good Idea, strategically speaking. Your accusation is bad, and you should feel bad for making it.

Furthermore you have scum written all over you and Vi is the only reason you have not been lynched by now.

And why aren't you after me?

[Vi]

Someone is trying to make sure the sheep get to the next town for who knows what reason. Its a make sure they get there type thing and not a everyone must be dead type thing. That is why I think the sheep is town.

That's... actually sensical.

Well, I have two options here. I could quit playing cause I am really bad at the game...or, I could keep trying and hopefully learn from my mistakes and the other players in the games with me. The speculation on Occam was excitement for me cause I thought "oh...did I just pick up my first bread crumb?" Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. Only time will tell. But I don't put faith in myself. (Being hard on myself is a bad personality trait!)

I sympathize. I'm the second-worst Mafia player I know (that actually tries), and the worst one just quit so guess where that leaves me. Oddly, nobody believes me when I say this.

Declaring mass claim time just means everybody starts shouting out roles and flavor, and scum have a candy store of information to choose from when fabricating their fake claims. Although, and I think I said this earlier, I'm very interested to hear the types of fake claims we would be getting, knowing that scum can't take the easy way out and claim VT.

Which is why ORDERLY massclaiming is cool. If you'll take Tarhalindur's word for it, anyway.

Maybe we should get this confirmation/rejection from everyone?

I AM NOT A

CROOK

SHEEP

@mod:

Where is BSG? We're running out of time and we're running out of steam.

Around here somewhere. He's been prodded.

[Vi]

Which is why ORDERLY massclaiming is cool. If you'll take Tarhalindur's word for it, anyway.

Right... in theory, all good. But since scum are part of the town, the order is also open to manipulation.

Setting 2 on the Massclaim Machine is "random", which takes care of this reservation. Dice tags are wonderful for this.

[Vi]

@Rhinox,

i am voting freeko because i believe his wild posting and accusation are a smoke scree very anti town, I have seen nothing of value come from him yet, if he is town is fail, but i believe him clever scum

Clever...

right.

freeko, when's the last time someone's mentioned that one of us HAS to be scum? (Answer: raider 651... where he said he WOULDN'T say that. The time before that was Juls 612. The time before that was Korts a long time ago IIRC

*lazy*

) I'm fairly positive I can take care of myself; the people in this game are generally rational and speaking frankly they can't ALL be scum. I think you can drop the fears about me getting quicklynched now.

I agree with Korts and Juls re: tubby and freeko. Maybe it was just the segment of GFAQs that I was on three years ago, but I can't remember the last time I've seen commentary like what's going on here. (At least, not from people who weren't immediately banned.)

TonyMontana: I got lost somewhere. Are you white and

nerdy

fluffy, or not?

This is the problem.

Lynching me when you know I am MUCH more likely to be town than scum,

is absolutely retarded. Its also the scum's plan to win the game. This I am certain of.

freeko... Realize that one of the few reasons people think you're more likely Town is because I said so... judging your reaction in a private and currently unverifiable QuickTopic... and I've been known to be very wrong before.
I've already mentioned that while the Mafia would gladly take your mislynch - if it IS a mislynch - you're essentially

handing them all the reasons they need to vote you and convince others to do so too.

Right now your head is so big that the halo you think you have is actually around your neck like a noose.

Now if you'll excuse me for changing the subject, our merry band of replacements needs to decide who's worth lynching (other than that guy). The time spent sighing at the sideshow is time lost with 3.5 days left before the deadline. Notice my vote is still on Juls, where I like it.

[Vi]

with out looking i'd say three. but i need to check

Newbie 644 - tubby-scum, Vi-town (tubby replaced in for the best Doc claim ever)
Mini 667 - tubby-Town, Vi-scum (this must be a typo, as I'm

never

Mafia)
Xyl's Relative Chaos - tubby-scum, Vi-town (7 out of 15 players were scum in this game; wth Xyl)

Also, Richard Nixon wins post 666 (:P @Korts)

nyaaaaaaaaaaaaa--

I have a quick question though...I think I missed what you guys were talking about with the massclaim (in the way someone misses an inside joke, not that I didn't see it). Are you guys saying that if there is a massclaim you want to just do a random dice roll (like say from 1 to 12) and the person assigned the rolled number claims?

That's the basic idea.

I'm not sure if we need claims from anyone who hasn't already brought their role up (BSG, Korts, raider).

[Vi]

Maybe then I can really get inside Vi's head

You don't want to do that.

plus i knew vi was town with in his first page of posts, he has a tell and if i inform you of it his tell will dissapear,

Perhaps not; I'm well aware of the obvious tell. If I were ever Mafia *cough* I would be able to work toward fixing it.

That said, it could provide a convenient way to get around analyzing my posts, as freeko said...
Hey tubby.
1) Who is scum? (Please name more than one person.)
2) Do you agree with the massclaim?

Responding to prod. As said, I have been busy, however the holidays are starting tomorrow so I should have a post with content tomorrow. But now, I'm going to celebarte 'Carvanal'

I'm assuming that's like Mardi Gras?
If you get soused, make sure you come back and tell us everything you know

In all seriousness, time is very tight. Post ASAP.

[Vi]

plus i knew vi was town with in his first page of posts, he has a tell and if i inform you of it his tell will dissapear,

I call dibs on the Vi-tubby scumteam.

Nevertheless the play today is either Rhinox or Juls. Whoever will have the bigger wagon near deadline will be the one I jump on.

Right, this is completely pro-Town
Is it just my imagination, or have all the hot reasons for suspecting me been based on what

other people

have done?

Query: If a wagon on someone other than Rhinox/Juls forms, would you join it?
And on whom would you prefer a wagon?

----

4 players I said shouldn't be good lynches today: {korts,

orly

afatchic hasn't contributed at all since replacing in. I get the feeling afatchic is just sitting by waiting for the game to get to deadline without contributing. He confirmed into a new game on tuesday, and his posting frequency since joining the site is nearly 9 posts per day. Deadline games take priority, and he's posted in 4 other games since last posting here.

You have my attention.

@mod: Please prod afatchic

Done.

[Vi]

My bad, I thought you were voteless.

Why?

[Vi]

Why don't you humor us and tell us why you think Vi wants Juls lynched. Also, can you tell us if you agree, disagree, or are indifferent with that reason.

I was willing to let your "Vi is town" conclusion slide for meta reasons, but you have to start providing something to support your conclusions.

This.

So my feeling is that afatchic (Lunar_Tick) is the scum equivalent of my role. I would like to have a claim from afatchic.

Vote: afatchic

And just an FYI, on D1 the path Kiro got from the mod was Path A.

Question: Isn't this directly consistent with what Occam was saying D1?
Do you have some kind of connection with Occam?

Juls- im not even gonna attempt to answer any questions about why my predecessor said something, or did something, and if you feel the need to lynch me have at it. however im not him, so im not gonna answer for him.

Anyways, i haven't had as much free time as i had anticipated, and my normal way of replacing is to wait until i finish before i post comments, since people didn't seem to like me posting as i read. so im just posting to let everyone know i haven't forgotten about you, but i just haven't finished completely reading.

And no i don't anticipate claiming soon, juls.

...you say two days after your prod.
Give a timeframe at the very least for your summary post. Now.

The question I would like to know is that are you not willing to answer the question or can you just not answer the question.

This.

I endorse this pressure.

Unvote: Juls
Vote: afatchic

(L-3)

[Vi]

Vote: afatchic[/b] (L-3)

Heck, add on three more before i get caught up why don't ya. that should be fun.

If only I could.
Y'know, there's an easy way to get these votes off you. It involves making this game a priority, catching up, delivering a post, and pointing to someone scummier than you. Without the mod kicking you to do it.

[Vi]

Paging BSG... I know you're around...
Come out where we can see you with your flippers up...

[Vi]

I'd start a wagon on Tony from scratch

Is it because of the freeko vote by itself, or is there more?
Also, what do you think of the afatchic wagon in light of the people who started it (Rhinox, Juls)?

afatchic is currently at L-2 and there are five days left before deadline. Just playing stock ticker.

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-18

afatchic - 4 (Rhinox, Juls, Vi, freeko)
Freeko - 3 (BSG, Raider, TonyMontana)
Juls - 1 (tubby)
Rhinox - 1 (Korts)


Not Voting - 1 (afatchic)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in 5 Days, in case you happen to be wondering. This is Friday, February 28th, around 1:00 GMT (or 20:00 on the 27th for EST, etc.)

btw note to the mod this is the most twisted game i have ever been apart of period

Why thank you

[Vi]

Your line of questioning, I take it, means you'd be willing to explore a Tony wagon?

Plotting to kill people is one of my favorite things to do. I just have to be really public about it because I'm never scum.

In all seriousness, if there is a worthy case to be had on someone, I'd like to comb through it. I don't really have a read on TonyMontana right now.
On that note... In TonyMontana #3, he notes that freeko's "confirmation" is as good or better than as Korts' confirmation, and unvotes. But he's unvoting

Korts

, not

freeko

.

Non sequitur.

This also begs the question of why he's not voting the less-confirmed Korts.

@freeko 728: She's made 11 posts elsewhere since her last one here ("responding to prod, will catch up"). Something's most decidedly not right here, and I'm tempted to take freeko up on his offer.

[Vi]

Posting to say--
1) This monitor and the words on it are swaying back and forth; it's kind of a neat effect. wooooOOOOOoooo~ *is sick, dazed, and confused*
2) I'm beginning to increasingly feel that we're not going anywhere and taking a shot in the dark for this lynch. Academic question - how bad could No Lynch be?
3) BSG claims to be ZazieR's sister, etc.

[Vi]

The sheer preventability of the afatchic lynch (on afatchic's part) is making me sicker than this virus.

[Vi]

consensus?
And did I miss a meeting?

I know I'm sick, but I'm pretty sure I didn't see that one.

[Vi]

Well that answers a lot of questions. Good fencing @the JulsSlayer btw.

Now 4srs, does anyone have anything that would suggest that one path is better than the other?

The night was ablaze with activity. Unfortunately for freeko, he fell asleep before it all happened.

I sense this is why the Watch choice makes so little difference
Isn't anyone here a coffee vendor? [/joke]

[Vi]

Based on the empty bottle of oil being among Occam's possessions, I think the watch would only have made a difference if he had done it (with a lantern, he would have been less likely to fall asleep, or at least see something).

I second Path B personally, but I'd like to hear if anyone (actually) has any idea of what's going on regarding the paths before anyone chooses one.

[Vi]

Leading wagons and wagons associated with Kiro/Juls:

BSG

-

Kiro

,

Occam

, Prom King (Page 4)

Lunar_Tick

- Rhinox,

MonkeyMan

, Rogue Shenanigans, Korts,

Kiro

(Page 5)

freeko - Korts, Rhinox,

MonkeyMan

, Sipylus,

Occam

(Page 6)

MonkeyMan

-

BSG

, Rhinox, freeko,

Occam

, raider, Sipylus, Korts (End of D1)

Prom King -

BSG

,

Juls

, Rhinox, Korts (Page 14)

Rhinox - Vi, freeko, Korts (Page 16)

Korts - Vi, Rhinox,

Juls

, freeko (Page 18)

freeko -

BSG

, raider, Korts (Page 24)

freeko -

BSG

, raider, tubby, TonyMontana (Page 29) (

afatchic

joins later)

afatchic

- Rhinox,

Juls

, Vi, freeko, raider, TonyMontana (End of D2)

Kiro

-

Occam

(Page 5)

Juls

- Vi (Pages 19 through 29)

Juls

- tubby (Pages 30 through 33)

-----

Table of replacements:

Rogue Shenanigans -> tubby
Spambot -> Sipylus -> TonyMontana
Prom King -> Vi

Lunar_Tick -> afatchic

Kiro -> Juls

-----

Observations:

I see Rhinox's name on this list. A lot. Which makes sense; me and him always wind up on the high-profile bandwagons
In all seriousness, I'm going to need to look over his interactions with me regarding Juls. I was so dreadfully lonely on that wagon for the longest time.

TonyMontana seems to like showing up at the end of bandwagons, as does his predecessor Sipylus. For this and being unconvinced of his D2 play, TonyMontana is my top suspect entering today.

I also see Korts' name on this list. A lot. Okay, I know there were only a few active players in this game at some point. What strikes me about Korts is that Juls hopped onto his wagon in quite the scummy way. This would lead me to believe that Korts is more likely Town... though I would like a fullclaim sometime to satisfy nagging doubts.

Scummy

TonyMontana
|
Rhinox
raider
tubby
|
Korts
freeko
Vi

Not Scummy

[Vi]

Vi, I can't answer for what sypilis did, but I think you are overstating how I get on wagons. Personally, I would be more concerned of how korts seem to appear on every single wagon in your (conclusions excluded) nice compilation of votes.

And if you read the whole post, you would notice that I covered that already.

Should we assume that the day-delayed reveal is just a part of the game, or is it possible that we (or someone) can do something to save the people?

I would believe it's a method of scumkill. By killing the mugger, we could get instant results like we got with the Vig/fencer.
Flavor-based guessing, etc.

Rhinox seems pretty keen on selling the idea of a mountain walk. Do you know something? (other then your profound flavour reasoning)

I'm giving you this

you can't be serious

look over the Internet.

[Vi]

And if you read the whole post, you would notice that I covered that already.

And this conflicts with my wish for your priorities how?

I've already explained why I do not believe Korts is guilty - I do not think Juls was bussing him.

What do you think I should think about Rhinox, while we're on the subject?

[Vi]

Also, Vi, Freeko, since we know Y'all are masons and what not, talk about anything fun and exciting during the night? I'm curious as to why Vi has freeko listed as the most town person besides himself...

Sure, why not.
Brief synopsis--
(freeko) Yay I may have a decent convo tonight
(Vi) You have more balls than CF Riot, you know that? In case I die overnight, attack TonyMontana, Juls, and someone, in that order.
(freeko) At least you call me ballsy and not an a$$hole. I don't think you'll die overnight; that would risk clearing me. Still wary of Korts/raider; not so much on Korts. 'Still think they're going to try to get one of us to be the lynch tomorrow.
(freeko) Why Juls? TonyMontana maybe, but not Juls.
(freeko) REALLY don't see either of us getting NKd.
(Vi) You're not cleared by my death 4srs. Juls is Mafia because she stopped scumhunting at post #46 out of 67, plus all the stuff I mentioned earlier.
(freeko) If you die, obviously whoever attacks me killed you. What do you think of BSG? Hateful pengy voted me for 20 days and never really did anything.
(Vi) Iunno, BSG could be scum. If Juls and TonyMontana are scum, Rhinox is likely Town, and since he was paying more attention to BSG just listen to him. (Yes, I said that.)
(freeko) Still think raider is scum for buying Korts' weak sheep claim and generally buddying to him. What do you think? I also think I could argue against you, but this isn't the place for that sort of mudslinging I don't think.

As I typed this, I saw two things that just pushed freeko up from the bottom of my scumlist. Could it really be coincidence...?

Incidentally, I only just now saw that last response in the QT. You can have fun trying to accuse me of being tied to Juls; I'll leave that there.

[Vi]

No, but seriously, you're arguing against nothing here. I'm not questioning your beliefs about korts.

Why can't you just let me less convinced?

Your English is acting up again.

Could we start this from the beginning, or something?

[Vi]

Path A - Korts, tubby, TonyMontana
Path B - Rhinox, Vi
No input - freeko
No preference - raider

Path A

You can go play. I'm going to sleep for the night.

[Vi]

Rhinox, why did you ask what the Neighbors talked about last night?

To a degree, I'm interested in raider's claim. (I'd actually REALLY like to know who hit Juls last night, but I don't think anyone's willing to claim it.)

[Vi]

Also posting to say that I swear tubby is scum in every game I've read, even some of the ones he wasn't in.
Except that one game where I was rumored to be Mafia.

[Vi]

I sense TonyMontana is protecting something~
Nonetheless, there's some sense behind his plan. *shrug*

Rhinox should know why I'm doing this. If he doesn't, that sounds like his own fault.

Vote: Rhinox

(L-2)

[Vi]

Rhinox should know why I'm doing this. If he doesn't, that sounds like his own fault.

Reread 866, and 850 if you have to.

[Vi]

Just started taking more online classes

so I need to balance things.

Ew. I tried those once, and I don't know how I passed.
Those are a lot harder than people who haven't tried them would think.

-----

You made this comment, but didn't reveal what you saw, or ask any questions, or otherwise pursue any actions relating to this comment. What two things are pushing up your suspicions of freeko, and why aren't you questioning freeko about them?

Correct. I was waiting on YOU to comment on it, specifically if you saw the same things I saw... since you were the one who asked me to reveal what we talked about, and didn't bother with it afterward.

Notice that the conversation I posted - which freeko just acknowledged was a good summary - deals almost exclusively with the people who died overnight. First, Juls - why Juls over TonyMontana? - and second, BSG - scummy or not? Also notice that freeko has insisted that neither of us (particularly me) would die

because that would clear him

- and it would... as a Neighbor, but not as Town. I hate to break this to you, freeko, but my death wouldn't do a whit of good for you. And last, see if you can notice a subtle difference in freeko's opinions here.

(freeko) Still think raider is scum for buying Korts' weak sheep claim and generally buddying to him. What do you think?

I really thought the NK would be either korts or raider.

By the way, when I said "subtle difference" I was being sarcastic. This is a contradiction.

BSG was not an obvious choice for the night-kill. I'm fairly positive that through yesterday I was playing the part of Dead President Walking. The only people that I can remember having any kind of interactions with BSG were Rhinox and freeko - mostly freeko. They seem like the people that would benefit most from BSG's death.

Thus, I have to come to four conclusions and have to pick one.
1) This is a coincidence. A staggering coincidence, but nonetheless. Move along, nothing to see.
2) freeko is in the Mafia, and based the BSG kill partly on my information (and partly because BSG was a direct threat to him - and potentially Rhinox as well. Also note that I listed Rhinox as the reference for seeing if BSG was scummy or not; if Rhinox were already known to be reluctant to make a case on BSG - and IIRC, that was the case - it could be expected that BSG would not be lynched). What doesn't fit here as much is the Juls kill, for obvious reasons. However, it wasn't until after I mentioned why Juls was suspicious that he said he could make a case on me.
3) freeko is an independent killing element, and based the Juls kill on my information. This could make him a Vigilante or a Serial Killer. As an SK, freeko REALLY doesn't want me to die, as I've been stopping him from being the obvlynch. My loss would be... tragic for him. The BSG kill doesn't make as much sense in this scenario though - freeko was too busy killing Juls in this case.
4) Someone outside the two of us is listening in on our QuickTopic. I've never seen a role like this before, but in a game like this I'm fairly positive it's possible - and for it to be balanced, it would have to be Mafia-aligned.

The bottom line is that I cannot find a 100% tidy explanation for the curious coincidences between what we said overnight and how the kills came out. However, in light of this I no longer think freeko is uncontestably Town, and am actually leaning toward scenario 2) above.

The reason for the vote on Rhinox was because he was the one who asked me to bring up what was said, but didn't seem to bother with actually looking at what was said. Did he care? Did he already know? His question with no follow-up, in light of the relevance of the answer, looks scummy. Yet as I think more about it, there's a problem here, too - a Mafioso scummily outing his partner is utterly preposterous; and I'm fairly confident that even Rhinox, who last time I checked has no experience with non-suicidal scumpartners, would do this. For a counterpoint, see 4) above, though...

One more thing. Assuming that the two sheep claims are true, TonyMontana and Korts are extremely unlikely to have made the NKs these past few nights. "Mugging" is a decidedly human thing to do; furry four-legged critters have only been seen doing that sort of thing in News of the Weird. I'm pretty sure I've also expressed the belief that the mugging flavor and delayed flip is attached to a particular Mafiate; if that Mafioso dies, kills will resume as in every other game.

In light of the recent thought about the mugging flavor, I think I'll set aside the claimed sheep for today - TonyMontana and Korts. While I will still research them, as both of them need it, I do not believe both of them can be the remaining Mafia under the game's flavor. That leaves... freeko, tubby, raider, and Rhinox as my suspects - with emphasis on freeko and Rhinox, but mostly freeko.

More at 11.

figuratively speaking

Until then,

Unvote: Rhinox

until further information comes in.

[Vi]

A note on defense - The vote on Rhinox was in large part for pressure's sake, because that appeared to be the only way to get him to RT*T (or at least that was the way that would work best in my one-dimensional worldview).

Actually, I'm suprised that the 2 of you even get a quicktopic, instead of just PMing. I've always thought quicktopics were for groups of 3 or more, where it would become tedious to PM everything to everyone.

Nah. PMs are a bit on the inconvenient side for ongoing discussions; it's good to have all the conspiracy discussion in one place.

However, one thing you wouldn't mention, but we can't rule out, is that the rest of us KNOW there was someone else reading your quicktopic besides freeko, and that person is you yourself.

I'm fairly sure this is accurate. I did read the QuickTopic last night.
Or are you calling me Mafia?~

That is why anything in the discussion kinda boils down to WIFOM to the rest of us - how do we know you didn't kill BSG and be ready to frame freeko for it due to the night conversation? Not saying I think thats the most likely scenario, but thats why I decided not to comment on the night conversation - theres nothing definative for me to deduce from it.

A note on this. I didn't even see the apparent coincidences until you said something and I looked back at it. (I didn't take the conversation very seriously at the time...)

Juls was scum, tony probably isn't... How does assuming tony town move me from "probably town, trust his judgement" to "one of my top 2 suspects"?

TonyMontana *probably* isn't? I said I wouldn't focus on him today, but I'm not going to go that far.
Also, circumstances have changed since the time I said that. What these circumstances are have been beaten to death in my posts recently.

For more clarification, I would like to set aside the sheep only today because they're sheep... not because of raider's alleged confirmation.

-----

Though Vi, you do a good job of showing how I am thinking of who the likely NK target will be. Then doing a 180 after the fact and trying to play my staement of still being suspicious of raider as a contradiction. Now, if I had said that BEFORE the NK, you might be onto something.

How does that make a difference?

Of course that question has yet to actually be answered, and should probably have been before anything was revealed.

He's answered it.

Thats the last time I ever try to have an intelligent discussion involving someone other than myself.

'Guess you're not going to get one any time soon then~

-------

TonyMontana, tubby216, or Rhinox seems like one of them will be todays lynch.

Why these three?

I would still like to look into Vi and freeko more but

I dont think I would get support for them today

so my focus will be on the other 3.

I always hate it when people say this.
Are you interested in the truth, or getting a lynch (that isn't you)?

I need to read the thread for a change. brb

[Vi]

Skimmed enough to say:

*I can confirm the *gambiting thing. I can also confirm missing the "hint". I don't think I'll miss it the next time though <.<
*I believe Rhinox's claim. The only reason NOT to do so is if someone can counterclaim the Juls kill (which I would have expected someone to do by now). Also, Jebus apparently plays Fire Emblem for apparently including limited-use weapons.
*In order to overturn Rhinox's claim, Korts needs to tell us what he knows (a fullclaim would be nice) AND someone needs to counterclaim the Juls kill.
*IF Rhinox is the Vig, THEN he is awesome for believing me the one time I'm actually

right

about someone being scum. (It does nothing for my precious SWA though )
*The RT*T thing was unintentional. I like my Internet to be PG-13.
*I am Town in this game. Rhinox needs not worry (especially since he's already fullclaimed... tubby got it right, but for the wrong reasons...)
*tubby's meta tell is... not good. Running jokes are funny if you're paying attention. I daykill everyone who calls me VI regardless of alignment. (oshi--)
*I tried skiing once. I almost went off a cliff. 'Don't think I'll try it again.
*How come I'm never anything other than Doctor or Neighbor while other people get to be Vigs and stuff? *vintage whine*
*I'm getting sick again (I just got home and found that my father's recovering from something flu-like. This is already a promising spring break.) I'll try to hold it together, because inactivity is lame, but, well, note the word "try".

[Vi]

Is it really that hard for people to fullclaim the first time so it doesn't look like they're adding to their claims?

...and that's really all I have to say at this point, other than that TonyMontana's claim is actually quite believable given Occam's flip.

Cut by raider: Generally speaking, scum should not bus if they don't have to. Juls' vote - which missed my vote analysis because she jumped off the wagon in favor of Korts on that same page - doesn't look like bussing. With that in mind, I think it's more likely (based on the freeko wagon) that freeko is Town and scum jumped on.

[Vi]

I can vouch that Korts has been getting replaced all around. Good luck with what's going on IRL, Korts. Hungarian Power, etc.

I side with Korts that pushing accusations based on the term "bulletproof" is retarded. It's the standard name for the role, and in

every other game

Mafiosi use these modern inventions called "bullets". And after reading... Korts' claim isn't necessarily terrible, except for the part where he claimed Rhinox killed Occam. What bothers me is how he made a show of saying he can't divulge that his information came from Candle Ja--er, the m*d, when the only regulation I see on the matter in the rules is against

quoting

stuff from the mod. In addition, he says that he got this information in a manner "similar to how raider got his about the sheep", yet raider's information came from a role-related ability and Korts has made no mention of such a thing. Oddly, reading raider's N1 disclosure the claimed informatia raider and Korts got seem like they could fit together. But if that's the case, why am I only the first person making this connection?

I sense that somewhere, some key information is being missed. Which would suggest that that information wasn't there in the first place? Intuition strongly suggests against this, but--

Vote: Korts

(L-2)

[Vi]

What information could fit together? I dont know what you are referring too.

You said you overheard a shepherd talking to his sheep.
Korts claimed (among other things) Favorite Sheep, so the shepherd (Occam) would have been talking to

him

.

[Vi]

What the. This role doesn't fit any template I've heard of, though it comes closest to Mafia Traitor (who got owned N1 with the Occam death). I --think-- this means there's only one Mafioso left?

Also, Herr Mod just confirmed what kind of scum we're looking for ITT (wolves).

Speculate, etc.. I'll elect to Watch in an hour and a half.

[Vi]

M'yokay.

Watch

whilst wearing sunglasses at night

[Vi]

It's looking more and more like my first theme game is going to be Mafia ViPod~
I didn't think music and lyrics would turn out to be one of my trademarks, but it's not a bad thing to be known for...

[Vi]

Hey, hey, hey. Hold the phone here.

I got some info from the Watch.
*Rhinox was watching raider while he slept
*I may have hallucinated seeing tubby attack freeko, and also may be hallucinating that tubby has a bloodstain on his coat (obtw, that's a notSheep mod confirmation)

This matches up with raider's claims, which were most recently corroborated by BSG's flip. I believe myself, I believe raider's claim, I believe TonyMontana's claim. What worries me is that one of the two kills is unaccounted for... But it's too late to change anything if that's significant.

Vote: tubby216

... who is, of course, scum again. This is up to L-2 as TonyMontana did not bold his vote.

[Vi]

Vi,

How much do you believe in your hallucination? Everything does fit but I do not wish to rush this.

This mod-info, even with the label "questionable", fits in with everything we know and does nothing to go against any of it (except tubby's Dumb Sheep claim). TonyMontana's claim is solid. Yours is weird as anything, but I don't have a reason to doubt it. By that alone, tubby is singled out.

In other words, this would be the best play today regardless.

---

Mod-Edit Only Votecount of Day 4

Raider - 1 (tubby)
tubby - 1 (Vi)

Not Voting - 2 (TonyMontana, Rhinox)

With 4 alive, 3 to lynch.

[Vi]

Also, note that TonyMontana/Sipylus was the only role to place a hammer. All four of them xD

I noticed.
I... hate flavor logic. (TonyMontana still made a great claim though.)

We were in a Prisoner's Dilemma D4 anyway; I'm somewhat glad it was brief.

Anyway, I nominate myself for MVP and Honorary Scum. At the same time.

*reads the flavor* Wait, so there were FOUR scum and an SK? Not to mention losing the Shepherd at night... and...

-Choosing the wrong path increases chances of the mafia getting two kills at night by 2. This does continues to grow until the right path is chosen.

Are you zetta kidding me? This game wass incredibly rigged toward scum, and I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.

[Vi]

EDIT: raider's claim was unbelievable, but he still worked it into something nice.

And I'll go ahead and say that Juls made a good falseclaim as well. Kudos all around *passes out candy bars*

[Vi]

Also, I noticed a typo - the group makes the town at the end of Day 5, so if you had survived this night, you would be at the town at the end of the day, making it a Town win.

Which would have been bastard modding to the scum.

[Vi]

Vi, great job at being pro-town. You totally blew my game wide open. I was blushing in embarassment a lot after you came in. I thought I was doing so good and wham! you suck Juls! (put much nicer by you of course). So tips are welcome...what can I do to improve?

Given my track record as Mafia,

no

You couldn't help Kiro's lukewarm vote, so I can't say much there.
My primary scumtell is not scumhunting. You need to have a direction, and when you say "oh everyone's scummy" it hurts that. When it's not the end of the day, it's fine to say who you think is Town or not; if you don't say it they'll be able to pick it up half the time anyway - and sometimes if you DO say who you're not suspicious of, the scum don't pick it up (happened to me in another game, when f-light-scum thought I was catching wise to her when I had said she was all but assured Town). And toward the end of the day you kinda stopped doing... stuff. You basically hung around. Being convincing scum is a war against laziness.

Also, when in doubt, look cute. And don't wagon EVERYONE who gets close to a lynch *coughTonyMontana*

...does this help?

@tubby: I don't blame you~

[Vi]

And I finally get to change out of this avatar. That in itself is something I've been looking forward to.

[Vi]

freeko, now that the game's over and everyone's motivations are clear - and we're free from all contracts to each other - SHUT UP.

[Vi]

obtw. You can has QT

Though you should know what's in it already.

[Vi]

Vi, you should've chosen Edgey if you wanted Ace Attorney.

Actually, I wanted to be Mia Fey, the defense's counsel (to represent my relationship with freeko).
Unfortunately, all of her poses in Phoenix's career are kind of ugly by themselves, so I went with Mia the rookie prosecutor.

There's another reason I wanted Mia, but I think you'll see that for yourself in time.