[jedimindtrick]You don't want to vote me. You want to vote someone else. [/jedimindtrick]dahill1 wrote:vote Yos
for manipulating me IRL.
Mini 720 - SPQR Mafia {Game Over}
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um...you pretty clearly knew Glork was one of the most experenced players in the game, from this comment.Coriolanus wrote:
no clue what the evidence for this is. if i had replaced "glork" with "dahill", what difference would it have made?dahill1 wrote:
this.Pathetric wrote:I would be curious to know where Coriolanus learned about Glork and not the rest of us.
corio definitely seems to know glork in some way, but i guess that's kinda beside the point.
I'm not really sure why you're getting so defensive about this, either.Coriolanus wrote: considering the player list, i'm disappointed by the lack of glork death. apparently experience doesn't count for much.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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(nods) That was why I said "darn simulpost"; it means, I didn't see the post you made 3 minutes before when I was making my post.Coriolanus wrote:yossarian, that comment does not convey in any way that glork is an experienced player, and even if it did, i posted my reasoning for why anyone would be able to determine it.
I think the emotion conveyed in this sentance is pretty strong evidence all ready that you're reacting pretty strongly to this whole thing; if you didn't care, you probably wouldn't be swearing at me. Not to mention the way you were arguing with Glork over it for about 5 posts; interestingly, you continued to argue it without ever actually denying you are an alt, and honestly that, plus your obvious mafia experence, pretty much confirms it it my mind.i want fucking evidence.
Again, it dosn't matter that much, although it is useful information for the town to have I think. I'm just wondering why you're reacting so strongly here.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Pathetric wrote: At least Yosarian admitted that this probably wasn't the most productive subject.
Actually, no, I don't think that. The subject of "is Corio an alt or not", isn't all that relevent; but Corio's answers, his response, really seem strange to me here, and I think his posting here might be a very productive subject.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well...it's a useful thing to know, and especally if he says whose alt he is I suspect I'll have a much easier time reading him, for meta reasons and such (there are a few players from which I wouldn't find this kind of over-reaction to be a scum tell, for example.)Assmaster wrote:
I have no idea what Yos is trying to achieve with this. It seems like he's trying to argue Coro into admitting he is an alt, which I don't think has any relevance to whether he's scum or not.
But, mostly, I just think it's odd the way he's reacting. I think his initial "why isn't Glork dead yet" post was really odd, and I'm trying to figure out what he's thinking right now. I care less about if he is an alt then about why he's reacting this way to Glork speculating he's an alt; , the overly hostile reaction to what looks to me to be logical speculation on Glork's part seems kind of scummy to me.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out. My natural reaction is to be suspicious of someone who reacts like that, although as Ether pointed out there are other possible reasons for it.Incognito wrote:
Yosarian2 and dahill1, do you find Coriolanus's reaction to be scummy-interesting or some other type of interesting?
Also, a lot depends on if I'm dealing with an experenced mafia player or a true newbie; reactions are different. Glork asked him that question earlier of if he'd played on a different forum, and he hasn't answered it yet.
(shrug) Haven't decided yet if his play is scummy or not, I suppose.Why have neither of you gone forward and actually voted for him as of yet?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Erratus Apathos wrote:
Not liking Yos2's "contributions" so far.
Unvote
Vote: Yosarian2
This is the sum total of your "contributions" so far.
Erratus Apathos wrote:Vote: xtoxmErratus Apathos wrote:FoS: Glork
How do you know Yos isn't tricking scum?Erratus Apathos wrote:
Octopuses don't have fingers. Lynch the liar!Glork wrote:Trust me, an octopus would be FoSing Yos, too.
Unvote
Vote: Glork
Random vote, pointless questions, joke vote.
I'm doing my best to discuss an actual game relevent issue here, and to use pressure to try to get moving. You have done nothing. What, exactally, do you have against my "contributions"?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yuck...xtoxm claimed vanillia? WTF?
Xtoxm, what the heck are you doing this game? So far you've self-voted and claimed vanillia on day 1 with no reasoning very early. Do I need to explain how anti-town either of those actions are?
On a side note,unvote:incognito; it was a random vote, and Incog's actions so far give me pro-town vibes, so I don't want to keep it on. If I was going to vote now, it'd probably be for xtoxm, but I think I'll hold off for the moment.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Erratus Apathos wrote: You could end this paragraph with "I'm chainsaw-defending Yos2!" in bold red using the largest font and it wouldn't be much more obvious than it already is.FOS:Erratus Apathos
You gave a vote for a bad reason. He voted you for it. "Oh, he's just doing a chainsaw defense of Yos2" is a really weak defense on your part, especally considering that I was in absolutly zero danger since no one else even thought me suspicious.
And your "that was just the random phase" defense is bad as well. Yes, it's ok to joke and fool around early in the game, I've got no problem with that. But if all you've done so far is joking and fooling around, and I've actually discussing game-relevent issues, you really don't have any grounds to attack my "contrabutions" as "unhelpful in finding scum" or whatever.
(shrug) If someone does something that looks like an over-reaction to me, my natural reaction is to put more pressure on that nerve and see what happens, especally early in the game when I'm just trying to get something going. You really don't see how that can lead to finding scum?
I can't see how they lead to finding scum.Yosarian2 wrote:What, exactally, do you have against my "contributions"?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yeah, the whole "chainsaw defense" thing is way overused. If you use it at all, you should use it when you already have caught and lynched one scum, then it might be worthwhile going back and seeing who tried to prevent the lynch, using several different possible methods, including the "chainsaw defense". But many attacks in mafia are always going to be based off someone else thinking your vote was scummy; you can't always just say "You're trying to chainsaw defense!!!"I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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...Xtoxm wrote:
Sounds like someone knows i'm town.Yosarian2 wrote:Yuck...xtoxm claimed vanillia? WTF?
Xtoxm, what the heck are you doing this game? So far you've self-voted and claimed vanillia on day 1 with no reasoning very early. Do I need to explain how anti-town either of those actions are?
On a side note,unvote:incognito; it was a random vote, and Incog's actions so far give me pro-town vibes, so I don't want to keep it on. If I was going to vote now, it'd probably be for xtoxm, but I think I'll hold off for the moment.
I clearly didn't say anything like that, at all; I said your actions were incredibly anti-town (and implied that they were also incredibly stupid), and made it clear I was getting frustrated by them.
However, this post isn't just anti-town. It's you manipulating my words, trying to make it sound like I said something I didn't, in order to create the illusion that you are pro-town. That's not just anti-town, that's activlly scummy.
Vote:XtoxmI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um, that's because you call anyone who suspects you scummy.Xtoxm wrote:The people i'm calling scummy are all voting me...
Anyway, you going to actually answer my point and explain yourself, or would you rather just get lynched and die? Either one works for me.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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...so, you're really going to totally refuse to explain what you were talking about, even if it means your lynch?Xtoxm wrote:Whatever, lynch me if you want. I'm town.
You realize that that's just incredibly bad play no matter what your alignment is, right?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Meh. There really isn't a "new" Xtoxm wagon, it's the same wagon that's been on him since he self-voted and claimed vanillia town for no reason. As I pointed out, I was right on the verge of voting Xtoxm anyway, and his last post pushed it over the edge.Coriolanus wrote:
this newest one, that came after the last.Yosarian wrote:Also, what "new" xtoxm wagon?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well, I'd really like Xtoxm to explain what he was talking about there. His "Yos thinks I'm town" post, which he is absolutly refusing to explain, dosn't make any sense at all from what I had just said about him, and it just seemed scummy.Pathetric wrote:...Yos2's response and vote is full of hyperbole. I don't see the manipulation in Xtoxm's post that he claims too at all, and dahill's vote just looks like opportunism.
Of course, that's not the only reason I'm voting him. Not long before, I said:
And you didn't have a problem with me when I said that. The only reason I didn't vote him was because I thought he was close to a lynch due to all the "lynch -2" talk, although he really was only at 3 votes out of 7.Yosarian2 wrote:If I was going to vote now, it'd probably be for xtoxm, but I think I'll hold off for the moment.
As for dahill...I haven't played much forum mafia with him, but from my recollection of how he played in person at Starkadium, my impression is that he tends to follow people he thinks are "good players" a lot, irrespective of alignment. Glork and Ether will probably both agree with me about his in person play. I'm not sure if that's his forum mafia meta as well, though; anyone play with him recently in a forum game?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Why?charter wrote:I think Xtoxm is town
Yeah, that was why I said it was "anti-town but not really scummy". Claiming vanillia for no bloody reason, though, is INCREDIBLY anti-town, and on day 1 that by itself is almost enough reason to lynch someone (because they claimed vanillia, which a scum would do but a townie should never do; and because it's a safe lynch; and because it limits the number of day 1 claims). Combined with the other scummy behavior, and his refusal to answer simple questions, he really seems like the lynch at this point to me.I don't understand why everyone always blows up when someone self-votes. I don't even remember the last time I saw scum do it when it wasn't a hammer to end the day short.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um, I just gave 3 reasons why him claiming vanilla for no reason is a good reason to lynch him. Town should never claim vanillia, at all, but scum tend to want to claim vanillia, so it's a scum tell. Plus, he's a safe lynch now that he's a claimed vanillia (he's either a vanillia or a scum), and if he gets lynched no one else has to claim, which protects the power roles.Coriolanus wrote:how could that possibly be a good reason to lynch him?
Still, none of that is by itself quite enough reason to lynch him by itself, although it's close. I'm still waiting for him to explain himself about that one scummy post, though; that one really pushed it over the edge for me, unless he can explain what it was he meant.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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How so? Pretty much everyone has commented on him by now and said if they think he's town or if they think he's scum. If he gets lynched, then when we find out his alignment, we get information based on all of that, based on who was right and who was wrong and for what reasons. What we don't get is extra claims, and that's a good thing.Coriolanus wrote:
exactly why i think he shouldn't be lynched today (although when i tried to verbalize that before glork shit his pretty little panties). he's got absolutely no information benefit; he's a sinkhole.Plus, he's a safe lynch now that he's a claimed vanillia (he's either a vanillia or a scum), and if he gets lynched no one else has to claim, which protects the power roles.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Hmmm...interesting.Pathetric wrote: Scum tend to want to claim vanilla? Your experience must be very different to mine. On the contrary, I see lots of townies carelessly claiming vanilla because they don't think their role is especially important; it's poor play but I don't see how that translates to scummy, and in my experience scum prefer to wait until a claim is explicitly forced out of them.
I was talking in terms of motivation, that scum have a reason to want to claim vanillia townie and town don't; you are right, though, that in practice town probably carelessly claim vanillia as much as scum do.
Still, I would really rather hear Xtoxm explain
1. Why he decided to claim
and
2. What he was talking about when he said he thought I "knew he was pro-town"
rather then hear everyone else in the game defend him before he even bothers to defend himself.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I know a lot of people hate the whole "safe lynch" concept, but it really is true and valid in this case.Glork wrote: I will say that in spite of Yos's known "claimed vanilla townies should die" theory (something with which I still disagree, by the way), I dislike his "safe lynch" comment regarding Xtoxm. It feels like an underhanded way of trying to get fence-sitters to just finish him off.
I should make clear, since lots of people seem to be misunderstanding this, that I'm not actually pushing for an instant speedlynch of Xtoxm or whatever; I mean, the game is only, what, 5 days old? We do need to put pressure on him until he starts making sense, though, and I find it frustrating that so many people are making it so hard for me to do that by everyone in the game suddenly jumping to his defense here.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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No, it dosn't, which is why I specifically said that it's not enough reason on it's own to want to vote him; however, it is a strong supporting reason.Glork wrote:Well the point I'm getting that is that the point of a "safe lynch" in no way makes him any more likely to be scum, which should be far and away the primary reason somebody votes to lynch.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Tell me, all else being equal, which is better for the town; a day 1 where one guy claims vanillia and then gets lynched, or a day 1 where 4 people claim? In which scenerio are town power roles more likely to live long enough to help the town?Glork wrote:No, it's not a strong supporting reason. It is a terrible one.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I've asked you to explain this 3 times now, and you haven't yet. What in my post gave you the idea I thought you were town?Xtoxm wrote: Yos is scummy because his post is directed at someone he either knows or believes to be town, he expresses anndoyance at the fact i'm town and claimed my role, rather than finding me suspicious for it (which later changes to once he realises his mistake).
I have already explained why I claimed, perhaps someone isn't reading the thread thoroughly?
You put yourself at lynch -2, then claimed because you were at lynch -2. What on earth made you think that was a good idea? And why would you claim vanillia townie just because you were at lynch -2 anyway, how is that ever a good idea?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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...both of whom you only "suspected" because we were already suspecting you. And then you wonder why "everyone who you suspect is voting for you?"Xtoxm wrote:
No. It was in reference to Glork and Yos. I didn't mean everyone voting me too.I'm assuming this wasn't in reference to me?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Pathetric: Want to explain why you think I'm scummy? You've said so like 5 times, but the only thing you've actually commented on about my play was my vote for Xtoxm, and even there you all you said was that you thought I was "streaching it" (which I really doubt; Xtoxm really just looks like a scum flailing around here to me) or that you didn't agree with me that scum want to claim vanillia townie (which, again, I don't get; isn't it obvious why scum "should" want to claim vanillia?)
And everyone's jumping all over me for my general stratagy comments; I don't get that, either. If someone gets pressured to a claim, and they claim vanillia, you generally want lynch them unless you've got a really good reason not to do so, and no one has given me any good reason to think Xtoxm is pro-town (certanly Xtoxm hasn't.) You don't want to then, after the vanillia claim, pull the bandwagon apart and pressure someone else to a claim; not unless you're scum who's trying to find the power roles, anyway. You could argue that Xtoxm wasn't really "pressured to a claim", but then again in his own words his only justification for a vanillia claim were that he was at lynch -2.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Basically, the argument EA made against me wasn't that my actions hurt the town; it was that he thought my actions weren't that helpful in finding scum (basically, that my posts had a low expected value to the town).Pathetric wrote: I don't like your response to Erratus Apathos voting you, quoting a few posts made by him in the random stage seems kind of cheap and just designed to make him look bad. I still fail to see why someone who's been pretty inactive apparently isn't allowed to critisise the contributions of an active player, in fact I can't really think how else they'd get into the game. Part of me still thinks there must be some basic misunderstanding on my part of the position you and Glork are putting forward here, because it seems ridiculous to me.
Now, that would be a reasonable argument if we were talking about a long period of time; if I spent most of day 1 doing posts that had a low expected value to the town instead of doing "real" scumhunting; then, one could make a valid argument that I wasn't being as pro-town as a townie should be, or something like that. However, if I'm doing something with a low expected value, while he (and most of the town; I wasn't really trying to single him out there) had only posts that basically had zero value, I would think it would invalidate that attack.
Or, to put it another way, "Yos is doing X instead of scumhunting" isn't a valid attack if no one else is really scumhunting yet either.
I hate this kind of argument, personally. It's not just "stuff that gets you negitive attention". it's stuff that SHOULD get you negitive attention, because it's anti-town behavior.Already commented on your Xtoxm-vote. Not sure what else to say; if Xtoxm is town (which I personally give about an average chance, my other head gives a high chance), he's an easy target for scum, because he's played pretty sloppily, claimed too early, self voted, asked to be lynched, all kind of stuff that often gets you negative attention whether it's scummy or not.
Besides which, when he self voted, I actually kind of defended him, pointing out that self voting wasn't actually a reliable scumtell (even though it should be, but that's a different argument). I only voted him when he started acting really scummy.
Ok, let me explain again why I think he's scum.You joined the wagon on him for reasons I find unconvincing.
First, he basically did nothing for the first 4 pages, not reacting to anything until he felt himself in danger.
I think he first felt himself to possibly be in danger here:
Assmaster wrote:
You should put your vote on Xtoxm. -2 to lynch always kicks the game up a notch.Tuberkulos wrote:Now that was a waste of four pages.
His response was the self vote.Glork wrote:Dibs on the hammah.
Could be a townie who was just playing around, but considering his later statement thatXtoxm wrote:Allow me
Unvote Vote Xtoxm
I don't really think he was. I think he was intentioanlly trying to deter people from voting him using a self vote, and that is scummy.Xtoxm wrote:I wouldn't be adversed to hammering someone on page 4.
Glork responds to this by voting him, and putting him at -1 (which is the correct response to that kind of gambit, IMHO.)
Xtoxm then responds with an OMGUS vote on Glork, and he also, pointlessly, claims vanillia townie. He does this in an oddly subtle and nonchalant way (so subtle I didn't even notice it at first); if a real vanillia townie felt forced to claim, I'd expect him to actually claim in a clear way. Well, here, look at the post again.
This post bothers me in several different ways. If Xtoxm really thought he was in danger of being hammered here, why didn't he unvote before this post? At least if, as he later claimed:Xtoxm wrote:I'm just mucking about, it's the random phase.
I think GLork's vote was pretty and opportunistic, I think he was hoping someone would hammer, with the fallback of "I was asking for it".
Unvote Vote Glork
VT btw.
Why wouldn't he unvote himself during those "Several hours", if he really thought there was a risk someone would hammer? And if he knew there wasn't, why did he think Glork didn't know that? Did he think Glork was a moron or something?Xtoxm wrote: Yeh, I also left my vote on for several hours just to prove you wrong on that front. I was here when you voted me. No one hammered though. I unvoted not to protect myself but because discussion had moved away from that and i'd found a good place to put my vote.
And, like I said, the whole "VT btw" thing seems unbelievably non-chalant. If you think you are in danger of being lynched and feel you need to claim to try and prevent that, or to give the town needed information, or something, why would you do it like this? It just dosn't feel honest, feels more like he's trying to play a role of a cool, relaxed townie, if you know what I mean.
Finally, his response to me expressing dislike about his vanillia claim and me expressing a willingness to vote for me was, again, OMGUS, just like his response to Glork was. In what I can only assume is a delibrate misrepresentation of my post (I have to assume that, since he has steadfastedly refused to explain himself, even on threat of being lynched), he acted like my expression of frustration at his anti-town actions was somehow evidecne that I "knew he was town", or something. He then made this misleading statement:
Even though the two people he's talking about, me and Glork, are both people he ONLY suspected AFTER they had attacked him.Xtoxm wrote: The people i'm calling scummy are all voting me...
Finally, he's basically done nothing to even try to help the town. None of his posts look like an honest attempt to find scum to me. He refuses to answer questions (with a useless response of "Fine, lynch me if you want, I'm town"), he acts in an anti-town way on several occasions, and he's just generally not being helpful.
Why is it I have to explain all of this, Patrick? What in his posts made you think he has only an "average chance" of being scum?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well...that kind of thing is basically a scum tactic, in my mind. Town who think they are in danger are more likely to meet their attackers head on, to demand to know why they are being voted, because they know that they are town and that anyone who suspects them is either wrong or scum, and either way they want to hear reasons.Coriolanus wrote:
i agree with the first conclusion, but i don't follow the second. please explain this.yos wrote:I think he was intentioanlly trying to deter people from voting him using a self vote, and that is scummy.
Scum, on the other hand, are more likely to use mind games, emotions, and manipulative tricks (like this one) to avoid bandwagons, because they know the people voting for them are right, and so they really don't want to hear the reasons for them, they just want the wagons to go away. Scum tend to be less confident of their ability to honestly defend themselves against wagons.
Hmm. Well...it's not easy to explain, exactally, it just seems like a put-on. Like he was trying too hard to look like "Hey, I'm just a vanillia townie, I've got nothing to hide"; whereas I don't think a real vanillia townie who was under enough pressure to feel he had claim would play like that.you later on make a point about playing a "cool" townie. how is this at all consistent with his self-vote? that is a massively risky move for townie or scum, if it was deliberate, as you claim.
Eh...in his post, I thought he was trying to make it sound like people were attacking him because he thought they were scummy, when actually the opposite was true. It seemed like he was trying to make himself look like the victim; again, another manipulative, scummy trick, IMHO.
again i agree, and again i'm puzzled as to why this is scummy.Even though the two people he's talking about, me and Glork, are both people he ONLY suspected AFTER they had attacked him.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Of course, but scum are more likely to feel the need to use manipulative tactics like to do so.charter wrote: How do you figure? Shouldn't anyone, regardless of alignment, want to get votes off themselves?
Also, dosn't that question pretty much directly contradict what you say right here?
I don't think that scum would do that to self vote. You know that if you self vote in such a situation (where you're under actual suspicion with a legitimate case building against you) that you're just going to increase that suspicion with a self vote. I think scum are less inclined to do so.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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So...you would focusRally Vincent wrote: I didn't say it is a bad thing. I just think that you focus too much on Xtoxm, even as he isn't willing to defend himself any further. Either we lynch him or not, but for now he is dealt with. We could still use the remaining time for other things.lesson someone because they're refusing to defend themselves?
That dosn't make sense. You focus more and more on them, until they start defending themselves and making sense.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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So, why have you still refused to defend yourself, or answer my question, or respond to any of the points against you? Do you think you can just accuse the people who suspect you of being scum and that means you don't have to respond to their accusations?Xtoxm wrote:
Yos. They're pretty much on level pegging, actually. My 3rd i'm not so sure about. I'd have no qualm with Dah at this point.Xtoxm, who is your number 2 suspect besides glork?
Patrick:
Yeh, my last 3 posts had little direct game relevance. So? Do you have a problem with that? I asked when deadline was because I wanted to know.
And i'll have you know I put a great deal of thought into my games. Most of my games, anyway.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um...how about all the reasons I gave for suspecting you?Xtoxm wrote:I have nothing to defend against.
1. You need to explain why you thought i was "assuming you were town" or whatever, when my post pretty clearly said nothing of the sort
2. You need to explain the contradiction between your claim that you knew no one would hammer you, and your logic that Glork was scummy because he thought someone would hammer you when he put you at -1.
It might also help your if you explain why on earth you thought it was a good idea to claim vanillia just because you were at -2, or give us some kind of reason why we might not want to lynch you. Or, heck, make a rational argument for why you think Glork is scum. If you want to live, you need to do something useful.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um....wtf are you talking about?Xtoxm wrote:So Yos either isn't reading, or is just plain BSing. I might change my vote if he continues...
No, they clearly have not. The closest you came was to repeat your initial point and say again:Xtoxm wrote: No. All have been previously addressed.
While constantly ignoring my ACTUAL question, which was WHY, and HOW, you could have ever game to the false conclusion that I "either knew or believed" that you were town. I certanly never said anything of the sort.Xtoxm wrote: Yos is scummy because his post is directed at someone he either knows or believes to be town, he expresses anndoyance at the fact i'm town and claimed my role, rather than finding me suspicious for it (which later changes to once he realises his mistake).
I don't know why so many other people in this game seem to be giving you a pass and letting you get away with just ignoring everything I say to you, but I will not.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Look, for the last bloody time, tell me how you could possibly have interpreted my post that way. Because every time you keep repeating that and you keep not explaining yourself, I become more and more convinced you're scum who's trying to BS your way out of trouble.Xtoxm wrote:
No, it doesn't. However, Yos slipped up earlier.That last bit implies you know xtoxm is town.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Xtoxm wrote: Yos is scummy because his post is directed at someone he either knows or believes to be town, he expresses anndoyance at the fact i'm town and claimed my role, rather than finding me suspicious for it (which later changes to once he realises his mistake).EXPLAIN HOW WHAT I SAID MADE YOU THINK I "EITHER KNOW OR BELIEVE" YOU ARE TOWN. DON'T KEEP REPEATING THE SAME GARBAGE OVER AND OVER AGAIN, EXPLAIN WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUTI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Bull. 99% of the time, if the town as a whole refuses to accept a certain behavior from a certain player, and the town makes clear that that person will die if he dosn't improve his behavior, the behavior changes.Rally Vincent wrote:
If he refuses to defend himself again and again, you won't get anything out of him, no matter how much you poke him. If you deal with him almost exclusively, you neglect the other players. The outcome of Xtoxm will not change. Either we lynch him or not. I know Xtoxm's attitude isn't helpful, but what do you expect to get out of him?Yosarian2 wrote:
So...you would focusRally Vincent wrote: I didn't say it is a bad thing. I just think that you focus too much on Xtoxm, even as he isn't willing to defend himself any further. Either we lynch him or not, but for now he is dealt with. We could still use the remaining time for other things.lesson someone because they're refusing to defend themselves?
That dosn't make sense. You focus more and more on them, until they start defending themselves and making sense.
Of course, so long as you and others keep defending him and keep accepting that kind of behavior from him, he has less reason to change.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Could you explain what you mean?Pathetric wrote:I'm actually getting a bit wavery on Xtoxm now, too...I'm painfully aware that only a small part of my read on him is based on his own behavior. But his wagon still gives me a bad feeling, and I still definitely dislike Dahill, so, meh. The impending deadline is actually a bit of a relief to me.
A question to Incognito, Glork, Yosarian2, Erratus Apathos, Rally Vincent, probably some other people I'm forgetting:
Are you in fact aware of the full case against Dahill? What do you think of the contrast between this and this?
Like I said, based on meta, I don't really think sheeping is inherently a scumtell coming from Dahill, and I don't have a problem with him following me on Xtoxm. I don't really have a read on Dahill yet, I could equally see him doing everything he's done so far as either town or as scum. If there's more to the case then that, I'd be interested to hear it.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ahhh...ok, I see it now. You think there's a contradiction between his vote here and the stratagy he endorsed in MD. That's a very interesting point.Pathetric wrote: He posted an excuse, but it's pretty obviously bullshit, considering the context of the second quote. I'm taken aback by the number of people who dismiss Dahill's scumminess without acknowledging this contradiction at all...the way that youquoted me drawing attention to itand then reiterated how you're okay with his sheeping. I accept that sheeping is in-character for Dahill, but it's not what I'm talking about. I hate his Xtoxmvote and I hate this.
Dahill, do you have an explination for this? What is your general opinion about someone voting without giving a reason?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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And yet, you refuse to answer these questions:Xtoxm wrote:I don't much like RV's last post. Firstly, I have provided better suspects, Glork and Yos.
You claim to suspect me and Glork, but you refuse to actually explain the reasons you gave for those suspicions; and, as it stands now, the reason you gave for suspecting me seems to have nothing to do with anything I've said, and the reason you gave for suspecting Glork seems to contradict what you've claimed as your own thought process. Basically, I don't believe either of them is an honest suspicion, you're giving every sign of a scum who's trying to fake a suspicion on someone, and you refuse to explain farther, probably because you can not.Yosarian2 wrote: Um...how about all the reasons I gave for suspecting you?
1. You need to explain why you thought i was "assuming you were town" or whatever, when my post pretty clearly said nothing of the sort
2. You need to explain the contradiction between your claim that you knew no one would hammer you, and your logic that Glork was scummy because he thought someone would hammer you when he put you at -1.
Frankly, Patrick/Ether, I'd agree with you about Glork being suspicious, except I don't think Glork is likely to be scum with Xtoxm, and Xtoxm is looking far more suspicious ATM.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well, I'm not really interested in defending Glork here, because I still do find him suspicious based on his day 1 play in general. I'm not really buying this argument, though; yes, Glork had easier mentioned he might try to hammer via phone on the way out, but Xtoxm was acting so unbelivably scummy right up to the end there, I don't blame Glork for just dropping the hammer and getting it done. I'm not sure why you think Assmaster would have said anything different about Xtoxm if given another few hours, either. This whole argument kind of confuses me. And yeah, Glork's over-reaction to the question is fairly bizzare as well.Incognito wrote:
This seems odd since it's not really the hammer in and of itself that I have an issue with. I wasn't evenYosarian2, [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1424940#1424940]in his 403[/url], wrote:I don't really see a problem with Glork's hammer, personally. If you're not going to be around before deadline, better to drop the hammer then to not.completelysuspicious of Glork until he began responding to my questions in the manner he did today. I have more of an issue with the fact that Assmaster could have had an opportunity to get at least a final say before a hammer was dropped, but Glork completely shut down that opportunity by laying down the hammer a bit earlier than hehimselfsaid he would. I'm fairly suspicious of Assmaster so the fact that Glork laid down the hammer when he did thereby completely disallowing a possible pre-N1 Assmaster-post really bothers me.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I guess the biggest thing I found odd was his whole attack on you yesterday. That never really made much sense to me; he had several posts attacking you, some of them quite long, but the only point he actually made against you that made any sense at all to me was the "if he's scum we'll take care of him tommorow" comment, and that hardly seems enough.Coriolanus wrote:yos: why are you suspicious for glork's play?
Glork is a good enough player that his scum-play dosn't diverge much from his town-play; so even though about 70% of his play yesterday is what I would expect from him as town, including the Xtoxm hammer, the other 30% makes me nervous; more so then if it was someone else.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I'm not "extra nervous" because you're renowned, and that's not what I said. I'm just much more on the lookout for possible small differences between your scum playstyle and your town playstyle, because I know full well that small differences are all I'm likely to find if you are scum; everyone is readable to some degree, but with good players the differences between their "town playstyle" and "scum playstyle" is far more subtle, and is much more in the details and the exact direction of their arguments then in more general style issues or more obvious scumtells. And I've always gotten the impression you look over everything I post with the same fine-toothed comb, for the same reasons.Glork wrote:Pffft. Being "extra nervous" because I am renowned is bullshit and you know it, Yos.
From what I saw, it looked like most of your other points were either just rhetoric or line-by-line disagreements that didn't really amount to anything. There's nothing fundimentally wrong with anything you said, but it just dosn't seem to add up to a case.Also, Yos, you really need to go back and read my posts again, if that's ALL you got out of my attacks. I'm going to assume this is an honest mistake, because I don't believe that you as scum, would so blatantly lie about that, but seriously. Terrible play.
(shrug) It's that part of yesterday, the part where you were attacking Corn, where I get some bad vibes from you. I can't really explain it much better then I have, which is why I haven't made a big deal about it yet, but IGMEOY.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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All right. I also still want you to explain exactally what I missed in your Coriolanus attacks, day 1, because I still don't get what it is you were doing there.Glork wrote:
I think so. I'm going to either elaborate or move my vote once I've re-read more thoroughly, but I wanted to have it somewhere.Yosarian2 wrote:
Any reason for this?Glork wrote:Vote: Yosarian2I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Meh. I'm trying to figure stuff out, but I'll admit, Xtoxm flipping town really threw me for a loop. Nearly everything I had thought I had figured out on day 1 is gone, and I feel like I'm totally starting from scatch again.Coriolanus wrote:Yos, why haven't you posted any scumhunting/votes recently?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Hah. You wish I wasn't interested in scum hunting.Erratus Apathos wrote: It's pretty clear to me that he's not interested in scum hunting.
I'd like you to make a list of people who have done more scum hunting this game then I have. (Hint: you're not on the list.)
Also, it's scummy as hell that, when the only attack you've made at all today was a vote on Glork, you suddenly turn around and take advantage of Glork's logic-less vote on me without questioning it. Especally considering how insistent you've been on voting for Glork, compared to the general shittyness of your case against him.
You're doing the same bullshit you tried day 1, again, when you complained about my contributions while you hadn't done anything yet. I'm posting and actually doing stuff, and you're really not; this is only your third post of the month, and the first two were complete garbage, as I pointed out about your Glork case at the time; and yet you again act like I'm the one who's not scumhunting, just because I haven't voted yet today?
Vote: Erratus ApathosI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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?charter wrote:Yos's poor attacks against EA makes me even more suspicious of him.
Poor attacks?
Do you really think EA dosn't look scummy here, charter?
And what do you mean, "even more" suspicious of me? You haven't given any reason to be suspicious of me yet.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I'm not going after EA "because he didn't say much". It's because of the way that he keeps using craplogic for bad attacks on people, and this isn't the first time I've pointed this out, either.
Well, that, and because he's scum.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Correct.[/quote]charter wrote:Yosarian2 wrote:Do you really think EA dosn't look scummy here, charter?
Well then, I would suggest going back and re-reading his posts in isolation.
That's not me attacking him for not contributing, that's me responding to his craplogic reason for voting me. I mean, HE thinks I haven't been scumhunting? Where does he get off saying that?Dahill wrote: this paragraph makes it seem like it
Besides, the point you guys seem to be missing here is that he's scum. I mean, just read his posts for crying out loud. I'll admit I didn't pay as much attention to him as I should have been until he voted me, but once I took a good look at his "contributions" so far this game, it because blatently obvious that he was scum.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yeah, I'm still waiting for that to be revealed as a mod error.charter wrote:Xtoxm was scum too, that worked out well for you...
Especally after he actually ADMITTED that he was delibratly being evasive, for crying out loud. How the @#@# did he flip town? I mean, seriously?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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