Mini #717 - Alpha Centauri Smalltown (Game Over!)

[MacavityLock]

I call Commisioner Pravin Lal.

I call good luck with that one.

[MacavityLock]

Vig and Redirector were 2 of the 4 roles I had picked out. Now time to weigh the benefits of the other 2.

[MacavityLock]

"Now it's day and night the irons clang, and like poor galley slaves
We toil and toil, and when we die, must fill dishonored graves
But some dark night, when everything is silent in the town
I'll shoot those tyrants one and all, I'll gun the flogger down
I'll give the land a little shock, remember what I say,
And they'll yet regret they've sent Jim Jones in chains to Botany Bay."

-- "Jim Jones", Traditional

---

You are

Foreman Domai

of the Free Drones. Having a strong affinity with the downtrodden masses, you are able to incite a riot in any other faction's central base, keeping the faction leader too busy restoring order to pay a visit to anyone else between Planetary Council meetings.

In other words, you're a

Roleblocker

. At night, you may PM me the name of another living player. If that player attempts any night action, you will attempt to prevent them from carrying it out.

Pa-dow. Gimme some a dat roleblockin' action.

[MacavityLock]

PS

Is anyone picking a role because they think it would be excellent to have as scum?

Yes, but the converse is also true. If I'm scum, I want my role. If I'm town, I want the scum to not have my role. Win-win!

[MacavityLock]

I call good luck with that one.

Are you opposed to me being jailkeeper son?

Not at all. I just doubt it'll get to you.

[MacavityLock]

farside, just out of curiosity, was Inventor one of the 3 you identified early?

[MacavityLock]

Scumbuddies!

[MacavityLock]

who are we on,
and what is gone?

I think Gremwell is up with Doc, Politician, Bulletproof, and Commuter available.

[MacavityLock]

Bulletproof sounds dangerous in the hands of scum and essentially useless for town, since everyone already knows who's bulletproof.

is silly. A bulletproof scum is at most slightly more dangerous than a regular old scum. Were you going to rely on crosskills? Bulletproof town is much more dangerous for scum than vice versa.

Slightly less than random vote: Occam

[MacavityLock]

Unvote.

I see now what Occam's point is, and I can see how it can come from a townie. I'm dealing with finals, and I don't have enough time for a complete dig, so I'm not going to vote just yet. But I'm a bit worried about a few things.

If it was a bandwagon vote, why would I word it as though I hadn't noticed the other votes?

Fortified WIFOM.

When I finished what I was saying and decided to random vote, I just looked up and his was the first name I saw.

Where did you look up? Are you saying that you specifically chose someone who already had votes on them? Because the most recent few posts before your vote were voting him.

This sequence struck me as strange.

Every game I've been in with a lynch in 3 or so pages or less for day one has resulted in a town loss... More later.

How many games is that, charter? Links please?

Even if charter hasn't actually been in any games like this and is lying, does it tell you anything about him?

Other weirdness:

Bulletproof sounds dangerous in the hands of scum and essentially useless for town, since everyone already knows who's bulletproof. Based on that:

vote: DP

...

Please explain to me your reasoning behind this statement? How is me being bulletproof DANGEROUS to the town? I am not lynch proof..or investigation proof…RB proof.. Other than the vig, who else uses bullets and how does that make me dangerous…

Occam is quite clearly saying that BP is a dangerous scum power. This is either a clear misrep or you're admitting that you're scum.

[MacavityLock]

Hello, failed alt :}

[MacavityLock]

I will weigh in and say

FoS: Gremwell

. No votes from me until after finals finish (tomorrow ~5 PST) and I can do a re-read.

[MacavityLock]

I haven't been able to keep up with this game, but now that finals are done, I'll be working on a re-read. Expect something substantive mid-week.

[MacavityLock]

you are CLEARLY NOT READING THE FULL THREAD..why is that? I know Occam is saying that a BP is dangerous to the town, HE is the one denying that he said it...How is this a misrep of ANYTHING? I know this is 6 pages back from where the game is currently, but I would still like an answer to this one…

I read the whole thread, and Occam never said that BP is dangerous for the town. He said BP-scum is dangerous for the town. There's a difference.

[MacavityLock]

All right then...

Unvote: Occum
Vote: Gremwall

Why are you in a rush to finish off this bandwagon?

[MacavityLock]

I'm not in a rush, but there's no point in my vote going to waste and voting after he's lynched.

This is not a good enough reason for a vote at this point. We have more than enough time for you to try to swing things to a person you think is more scummy. I need to do a closer re-read, and will have something by Thursday, but for right now

Vote: MonkeyMan

.

[MacavityLock]

ML, what do you think of Gremwell?

Certainly need to re-read closer. The whole "As for farside and Occam, let's lynch one and then vig the other" plan and then saying it was all for reactions was pretty bad (which I did state at the time). I'm not completely against a Grem-wagon, but I think I like a Monkey-wagon better at the moment.

[MacavityLock]

Well, I did a complete re-read, and I'm really happy with my Monkey-vote right now.

I understand the pitfalls of a quick lynch, but if everyone who voted for Occum thinks he is the most guilty, it doesn't really make sense to unvote to avoid lynching, if you actually think he is scum. Cephir does look like a bandwagon vote, but at this point I am for more concerned with Occum.

RVs are barely over. Do people "actually think he is scum" at this point?

Self-voting isn't the only thing Occum has done that's scummy though, there's also suggesting BP isn't a powerful town role, and then strongly defending the statement after a logical reason was given that it is.

How is any of that scummy, particularly?

Did I miss something on page one. I see nothing about a SK in the game. Is it normal for a SK in small town? I ask because the assumption there is a SK makes my head hurt.

If people are randomly town or scum, that means the vig could be scum, which would be essentially a pro-scum SK.

Super-weird reaction to farside's question, but I have no idea what it means.

Also, it should be noted that since Occum voted for Ceph, it is unlikely that they are both scum. That means either they are both town, Occum is scum and Ceph is town, or Ceph is scum and Occum is town. Since they have both exhibited questionable behavior, I think the first scenario is unlikely, I think they are on opposite teams. That means if we lynch one and they are town, then we can lynch the other one day 2(unless better info comes along), and they will likely be scum.

Yeah, this is a pretty well-known post at this point. Still, it's just another point against him.

at FOSing a logical statement. I didn't say it was 100% true, I said it was likely, and a possible strategy, not one that we have to follow if something better comes along.

The wording used in 166 suggests that you thought it was 100% true. So, backtracking?

This makes no sense. I haven't referred to Empking in any of my posts, and gave several solid reasons for my Occum vote.

Any particular reason you think this is why Oman thinks you're potentially their scumbuddies?

So anyone who doesn't want to bandwagon Gremwell is automatically scum? My policy is not to change my vote unless I think the new person I'm voting for is more scummy than the person I'm currently voting. My reasons for my vote are sound, weather you agree or not.

is directly contradicted not 20 posts later with:

I'm willing to go with the majority on Gremwell if we need my vote for a lynch, but I don't want to give the impression that I'm letting Occum off the hook.

279 is also clearly contradicted by the actual change of vote.

I don't agree that I'm not scumhunting, I've already stated that Occum and Gremwall are the two scummiest, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, that's not scumhunting.

To RR, I apologize for flying below the radar. I have been really busy, but should have a ton of time over the holidays.

[MacavityLock]

OK, 2 things first off:
1) Preview button is your friend.
2) All of that is attributable to me, not RR.
Not that either of those things is scummy, just annoying.

Self voting is scummy because the only logical basis for it is to gain town sympathy.

Town sympathy is not the only logical reason for a self-vote, though I don't particularly like them.

If you know you are town you should not be voting for yourself. If you are scum you should not be voting for yourself. In short, any self vote is scummy.

Hee hee.

279 is also clearly contradicted by the actual change of vote.

That's not true, I considered everyone else's opinion, and decided that Gremwell was probably the best vote at this point.

No, you said you switched because you wanted your vote to be used for something, not that he was the scummiest. Also, the contradiction in 295 is worse, and you avoided addressing it.

Yeah, that's not scumhunting.

Semantics. If you want to vote for me because I don't do things the way you want me to, that's your business.

No, scumhunting is not saying someone is scummy. Scumhunting is finding flaws and asking about them, trying to dig deeper into the game.

[MacavityLock]

You're entitled to change opinions, but stating a

policy

of yours which then disappears into thin air is very scummy.

Not really, one has to weigh standard policy vs the individual case.

Except for the fact that you changed your mind on this "policy" less than 20 posts later. Changing your mind like that is very simply an excuse to jump votes.

Seriously guys, this is getting kind of silly. Is there any point to discussing night actions for Night 1, or is it too early/too many people to make complicated plans?

[MacavityLock]

Now, either you think Gremwell is scum, or you think I'm scum.

Methinks the Monkey doth protest too much. When Monkey flips scum, I think there's a good chance that Grem is a buddy.

[MacavityLock]

If you want a reason, if my vig kill is planned it lets Doctor, Jailkeeper, busdriver, probably someone else I'm missing mess with it, and since I don't know any of your alignments (and think at least one of you isn't town aligned) I can tell you now that you can discuss it all you want, but I won't be vigging who the town picks because the town picked that person.

I agree with this. Also, you're forgetting the Roleblocker i.e. me.

[MacavityLock]

Scale of 1-10, 1=scum, 10=town
MacavityLock - Foreman Domai, Roleblocker
(7) - Solid scum hunter

I am Monkey's 2nd towniest read. What does it say about Monkey when he says that I'm a "Solid scum hunter" when the only bandwagon I've been on with any conviction is his?

Once Yos2 makes his posts and Grem returns, can we just end this?

[MacavityLock]

No more discussing vigs….we should be discussing how we are going to claim tomorrow…I think Dicecorn (Popcorn Dice) It is the most random so scum can not manipulate.

Straight Popcorn is better.

Can someone explain? Don't know the terminology.

[MacavityLock]

Also, I should probably reply to DPs' questions.

All right then...

Unvote: Occum
Vote: Gremwall

Why are you in a rush to finish off this bandwagon?

why are you not voting anybody and casting blame on someone who is? Take a stances on some people today for me. I don’t understand your vote on MM. I mean I know why I think he is scummy, but this seems out of no where. If Grem DOES flip scum, I will be exploring this further.

The reason I hadn't taken a stand at that point was due to being busy with finals. Once I had a chance to read, I think I did. My first vote on MM was because I really didn't like

Like I said, I'd be glad to vote for Gremwall if necessary for a lynch, but certainly not as a threat.

followed directly by a vote. "Necessary for a lynch" is a phrase that shouldn't show up until we're near deadline. My subsequent read only solidified my belief that Monkey=scum.

Now, either you think Gremwell is scum, or you think I'm scum.

Methinks the Monkey doth protest too much. When Monkey flips scum, I think there's a good chance that Grem is a buddy.

why is that?

Because this sounds just like a caught scum trying to protect his buddy the next day.

[MacavityLock]

Monkey, what's your case on Gremwell?

[MacavityLock]

Monkey, what's your case on Gremwell?

He wanted to wait until others gave their opinion before giving his. That's scummy and deceitful. Evidently other people have cases against him as well, but you'd have to ask them.

So, because of this one fact, he's scummier than you?

[MacavityLock]

Hey Yos, we've got no Cop.

[MacavityLock]

Apologies, my headspace has been taken up by another game over the past couple days.

I agree with RR: I don't see how anyone could have Monkey as not their top scum choice. In fact, charter switching his scumlist back to ort smells of bad OMGUS to me. But that's for tomorrow.

[MacavityLock]

Grem/ort has been my top suspect for like ten pages.

Yeah, but I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't give ort a bit of slack for replacing, especially given that he's the doc.

Wasn't it Emp that switched his vote and for really no reason?

Yes, he's certainly someone I'll be looking at as well.

[MacavityLock]

I still don't get the point of not lynching someone because of their role. Role has no bearing on alignment. If you don't lynch any of the 'good' roles, you're down to about half the people in the game, which is dumb.

Risk-reward of losing town-doc vs losing town-politician, especially on day 1.

And I still don't see how Grem/ort is scummier than Monkey.

[MacavityLock]

And the other thing I want to know, where does the 'risk reward' thing end? How far are you planning on using that justification?

Used only in cases where they're equally scummy, and it doesn't apply for me in this case, as I think Monkey is much scummier. I'm still trying to understand how it doesn't apply to you (i.e. why you think Monkey is less scummy than Grem/ort.)

[MacavityLock]

Highlights of Oman-scum's game (w/ commentary):

Plus its a risk reward thing, i'd rather kill a town politician than a town doctor.

In the light of Oman being scum this is a handy comment. MM WAS a town politician. Does this mean ort (doc) is at the very least not S.C.U.M.?

No.

I think that regular popcorn would slightly help find links once we've found the next scum while dice popcorn would slightly prevent the scum from hiding now. The SK doesn't care about claiming, since their NK is an additional action and is untrackable, etc. So, only the two S.C.U.M. care about this, and it feels to me like 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

I don't think that Emp should unilaterally decide that DP goes first. I think it should be either:

• Regular popcorn - Occum completes his claim (did he receive an invention, etc.) and chooses who to go next.
  Dice popcorn - ort claims and dices who to go next.

How does the dice tag work, by the way?

[MacavityLock]

I would prefer popcorn or dice popcorn to the order as listed by Occam.

I will be very LA from pretty much now until the 20th, and if you need to replace me so be it. I will be around to post tomorrow, but after that, I can't guarantee much.

[MacavityLock]

NB: I would like to stay in this game if at all possible.

[MacavityLock]

Blocked Empking. Received no inventions, nor mason invites.

RR, I choose you.

[MacavityLock]

ML, why did you decide to block Emp?

I had 3 potential people I was considering targeting. (I'm not going to say who else I was considering, as I might go that way tonight, etc.) I chose Empking because I did not at all like the way he jumped off of MM onto Grem/ort at the end of yesterday, and I thought as someone without an active ability, he would be a likely person to be tasked with kills.

I would like to add my voice to DP asking charter why he killed farside.

I need to re-read as well, but my LA will hamper the situation. I'll do my best, certainly, and try to respond as quickly as possible to any questions.

[MacavityLock]

The most significant thing I can glean from this is that ortolan didn't make the NK and targeted me rather than a scumbuddy (which is what a scum doctor would've probably done), so he's likely not scum.

Two things:
1) orto didn't make the S.C.U.M. NK. There's no reason he can't be the SK.
2) As RR is not confirmed, we cannot make any conclusions about protections either.
Still, as I haven't found RR that scummy, I agree with this in general.

Empking didn't make the kill either if ML's telling the truth, and charter used his action on killing farside. So assuming Oman chose to redirect something rather than kill, the scum kill was made by either DP, Ceph or Occam (or, far less likely, ML). That doesn't help all that much, now that I think of it.

Because we don't know the exact actions of the JK or Redirector, we can't come to any complete conclusions here either.

@mod

, I don't think I saw this in the rules, but I'd like some clarification if possible: If someone gets RBed, JKed, or Redirected, are they told about it?

[MacavityLock]

Sorry for double post.

We have three scum (2 mafia and a sk) left...most likely they are lying about their actions.

The SK does not have to lie. They both get their regular action + a NK and that NK is untrackable.

[MacavityLock]

Charter, why did you decide to kill farside?

I was about as sure that her and ort were scum. I also figured I'd have a much easier time today getting Ort lynched, so her.

Why did you kill at all last night?

Occam (and everyone) what is your opinion of Ceph? Mine is that he is scum.

Vote Ceph

Why is Ceph scum? Why is ort no longer scum?

Also, I'd like for us to come up with a settled nomenclature for the S.C.U.M. that isn't "scum". I'm kind of sick about the confusion based around "scum". Any ideas? How about "mafia"?

[MacavityLock]

@charter: Why? Also, what happened to ortolan? He's still near the top of my list, so what changed?

Based on RR's and ort's night actions, they are either BOTH scum or NEITHER is scum.

This is incorrect. There are 3 scum remaining: the SK, the mafia that made the kill, and the mafia that didn't make the kill. RR only cleared ort of being the mafia that made the kill.

You also haven't answered my question as to why you vigged at all. Actually, another question: Do you think you'll vig tonight?

[MacavityLock]

EBWOP:

There are 3 scum remaining: the SK, the mafia that made the kill, and the mafia that didn't make the kill.

We don't know whether Oman made the kill or not, so it's possible that two "mafia who didn't make the kill" are still out there. Point is the same, ort isn't cleared by a longshot.

[MacavityLock]

Emp: Why did you ask a useless question and then refuse to answer anything directed towards you? Do you find asking useless questions and then refusing to answer anything directed towards you scummy?

Everyone: How do people feel about "Lynch All Liars"? I have a tiny voice in the back of my head suggesting that someone may have lied about their night action, though purely for game theoretical reasons, not for any posts this person made or other game-specific knowledge. I'm also slightly worried that it is possibly beneficial for that person to have lied both as scum and as town. Still, I kind of feel like LAL is generally a good plan, and want to get other opinions.

If people agree to it, and said person doesn't admit to a lie, I will likely propose a small plan for some of tonights' actions.

[MacavityLock]

One other thing:

No. I really believe that whether or not the redirector should act, should be discussed.

Emp, why were you interested in seeing this discussed pre-N1?

[MacavityLock]

Everyone: How do people feel about "Lynch All Liars"? I have a tiny voice in the back of my head suggesting that someone may have lied about their night action, though purely for game theoretical reasons, not for any posts this person made or other game-specific knowledge.

Is there any reason not to say who this person is? Also, lynch all liars does not equal lynch all possible liars.

1) I don't want to step on anyone's toes just yet, and I'm still trying to decide if my idea is worthwhile.
2) This plan would not necessarily result in a lynch. I used "Lynch All Liars" as a better-known shorthand for "Kill All Liars," and the idea I have (if I figured it correctly) would only result in death for someone who actually lied.

[MacavityLock]

Occam, are you planning on Commuting tonight? If you'd rather not answer, that's understandable, but if you won't answer please say why you won't.

Still waiting on answers from charter: Why did you vig at all last night? Do you think you'll vig tonight?

As for Empking, your question was put out there to be dodged. No one would/should ever take your question seriously. Why did you refuse to answer questions posed to you?

[MacavityLock]

Oh. That's by no means cause for a lynching, and I see no pro town reason for you to want to know the answer to that.

FOS ML

.

As I said, my plan doesn't end with a liar-lynch, but it could end up in a liar-death.

Fine, I'll just put it out there now. This has more to do with my distrust of charter than of anything about Occam. Given that we could have up to 5 deaths over the course of today/tonight, I don't want charter to get his vig-kill. (Potential for 5 deaths comes from lynching Emp-saint, which I'm not against.) Those deaths could easily end the game with a town loss. So, my plan was to effectively neuter his vigging by directing his kill towards Occam-commuter.

Very simply this comes down to me not trusting charter with his vig, and this plan failing if Occam actually lied about not commuting yesterday, which I could see both scum or town doing. So, if we get Occam's sign-off, does anyone see a major problem with this plan?

[MacavityLock]

ML, why do we need Occam to prevent me from vigging, why don't you do it?

Because maybe my RB will be better used elsewhere. I just wanted to get the idea out there, and if people aren't for it, that's fine.

[MacavityLock]

Your plan doesn't make sense. It all stems from YOU not trusting me. I see no reason why the town should support your idea unless they all don't trust me either.

Yes, exactly. Sounds like others do trust you, so there we go.

If I was commuter-town I would have absolutely no qualms with lying about having commuted.

This is why I specifically asked for Occam's sign-off on the plan.

ML, what do you think of both of them?

Emp remains near or at the top of my scumlist, though barring me being JKed or Emp being one of the redirecteds, my RB has semi-cleared him of being the SK and the mafia that made the kill.

As for Ceph, there are certainly a couple things that I don't like, but I need to do a re-read to decide for sure. Given LA/No Access, that won't come for a little while.

[MacavityLock]

Plus, everyone will know that I'm not going to be able to commute tomorrow, scum included, if we follow ML's plan. I don't agree with it.

This is a very interesting comment.

How does it help scum to know that you can't commute N3? Only in that they could potentially kill you. However, given the variety of other kill targets, does it really matter? If you didn't say anything, they'd probably choose to kill someone else on the chance that you did choose to commute. So, hiding whether you can or not will probably not save us a death. This is a similar argument to DP's about Bulletproof.

Now, how does it help town to know that you can't commute N3? Quite a bit, actually. We could potentially block/track/masonize you to attempt to confirm.

So, can anyone find a reason that having public knowledge that Occam wouldn't be able to commute N3 would be anti-town?

[MacavityLock]

Likely last post before my No Access begins.

Occam's 683 makes sense, so I'm done with that.

[MacavityLock]

Bonus post!

For me at least, there's really no one else I find even close to as scummy as you, so letting you live another day seems like it will just increase the chance of lynching a townie to me.

Even though your reasoning for no longer suspecting ortolan isn't valid?

Seriously, charter, the fact that your suspicions of ortolan have absolutely vanished is massively scummy. Your logic for the "clear" doesn't work, and you've given no other good reason why your thoughts from day 1 would have changed.

And now, back to No Access!

[MacavityLock]

I'm back and re-reading. But for now:

RR/ort would have to be the scumteam and NOT made the kill last night.

Again, not true. It's entirely possible that ort did protect who he says he did but is still scum.

He has to be scum with RR still.

No, he doesn't. This has been explained many times. Please explain why you insist this is true.

[MacavityLock]

RR tracked him protecting RR. What about this doesn't make sense. They're either both lying or just RR is lying.

Why does ort have to be lying if he's scum?

[MacavityLock]

Vote: charter

[MacavityLock]

Your insistence that ort has been cleared means you have more information about night kills than the rest of us. In this open setup with you as vig, that means you're scum.

[MacavityLock]

I'm not sure I buy it, charter. You've had all of these arguments in front of you for a week. For the moment, my vote stays.

MacavityLock I'm not sure if you're saying you find me scummy or simply find charter's change of tune scummy, but feel welcome to tell me why you find me scummy also, if in fact you do.

At this juncture, I am only commenting on charter's reaction to you, not your scumminess or townieness.

I need to catch up before adding any more of my 2 cents-es.

[MacavityLock]

It's getting to me how Cephrir and MacavityLock are interjecting while admitting they're not even "up to date" with the game. Surely it's not that hard, I replaced in and I still read all of it.

I'm not allowed to comment on things I find currently relevant while I'm catching up? I got back from vacation less than 24 hours ago. I humbly request that you hold off on making this argument against me for a couple days please.

[MacavityLock]

I think charter is the SK.

Occam (and everyone) what is your opinion of Ceph? Mine is that he is scum.

Vote Ceph

Why is Ceph scum? Why is ort no longer scum?

I'll post that shortly. ort is no longer mafia because it means either he and RR are both mafia or neither is. I think neither is. I don't know who is the SK, but I don't see ort's play as very SK'ish, I thought he was mafia yesterday.

@charter: Why? Also, what happened to ortolan? He's still near the top of my list, so what changed?

Based on RR's and ort's night actions, they are either BOTH scum or NEITHER is scum.

This is incorrect. There are 3 scum remaining: the SK, the mafia that made the kill, and the mafia that didn't make the kill. RR only cleared ort of being the mafia that made the kill.

Hmmmm, you make a good point. What I said up there isn't true now.

2 important things to note here:
1) charter is aware that the SK has the untrackable NK.
2) He admits his incorrectness on the ort/RR scumbuddy conclusion.

RR/ort would have to be the scumteam and NOT made the kill last night.

Again, not true. It's entirely possible that ort did protect who he says he did but is still scum.

He has to be scum with RR still.

He forgets point 2 from above.

Ort is either scum with RR or not scum at all.

And doesn't allow for the possibility that ort is the SK. Maybe because charter knows that he isn't?

Charter, why did you decide to kill farside?

I was about as sure that her and ort were scum. I also figured I'd have a much easier time today getting Ort lynched, so her.

Oh really?

Farside gets demoted to almost certainly scum, just below Gremwell again. Not looking to start a wagon on farside anymore. MM reading is still the same.

Grem/ort has been my top suspect for like ten pages.

If he's your top suspect, why wouldn't you kill him? Maybe because you found that it would be easier to get another lynch. farside was unlikely to be wagoned today had she survived, while ort almost certainly would have.

Oh wait. I'm an idiot. I just got what you were trying to say. Ort goes back to a prime suspect. I could now lynch ort today as well.

came immediately after

Your insistence that ort has been cleared means you have more information about night kills than the rest of us. In this open setup with you as vig, that means you're scum.

The moment I accuse him of having additional knowledge about NKs, he "figures it out." I think he simply got caught.

If you re-read him, charter comes off as by far the most blood-thirsty player in this game. I don't think it's just a fact of his vig-ness. Everyone who thinks of him as a good townie, I don't particularly disagree. A good SK in this setup will look exactly like a good townie. But the other tells are enough for me.

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I'm having a really hard time figuring out Empking. He had a couple good scummy actions yesterday (vote jump to Gremwell, the discussion about whether or not redirector-scum should act, general unhelpful behavior [possible common Emp-meta]). Today has been pretty much nonsense. Even more unhelpful, and I'd say specifically detrimental to the town with his harping on DP for no good reason. (I will accept no arguments that refusing to answer a stupid question is scummy.) Problem is that I have absolutely no idea if he's playing bad town or bad scum, though given day 1, I'm thinking scum.

Basically, I'm torn between whether I want to lynch charter, or whether I want to lynch Emp and have charter be the hammer. I'm leaning the latter, but will leave my vote on charter for now.

[MacavityLock]

2 important procedural things:

1) We need a true majority to lynch. If we do run up Emp and our choice for hammerer refuses to, we will end up with a No Lynch. (Unless I'm reading the rules wrong.)

2)

@mod

, due to Claus's recent replacement, I'd like to officially request a deadline extension. I don't see any rules about whether you'll accept that or not, but I think it's worth it to at least ask.

[MacavityLock]

Time for some charter-style case:

FACT - charter was and is fully aware of the SK being untrackable.
FACT - charter made the claim many times that "Ort is either scum with RR or not scum at all."
CONCLUSION - charter knows that Ort is not the SK.

FACT - At the end of Day 1, charter's top scum suspect was Grem/ort. Top, not tied with farside.
FACT - charter vigged his supposed 2nd suspect.
FACT - At the start of Day 2, charter claimed that farside was tied with Grem/ort at the top of his list.
CONCLUSION - charter is making excuses for a bad vig. This bad vig also gives many people an obvious Day 2 lynch target.
OPINION - charter's case on farside wasn't all that compelling to begin with.

@ort or anybody - What SK tells are you looking for? Have you found any?

@charter - I won't be voting Ceph just yet, though I'd prefer his lynch to No Lynch. I'm re-reading your iso post 73 (your case on Ceph). Some of it is good, some of it is weak. More in favor of the Emp lynch, though I'm not psyched about getting consensus on how to do this with a pretty close deadline. charter, would you be willing to vig Emp tonight?

[MacavityLock]

Why did you hammer now without letting my questions get answered?!?