Mini #717 - Alpha Centauri Smalltown (Game Over!)

[MonkeyMan576]

I bet I know which role I'm getting...

[MonkeyMan576]

farside, just out of curiosity, was Inventor one of the 3 you identified early?

Yes. I never got to be in inventor or JOAT's before. Always wanted the role.

I've been Leonardo da Vinci, Inventor on another site. I had a post restriction where I had to write backwards in Italian. It was truly mean.

[MonkeyMan576]

Interesting idea, farside. I assume that's the whole point of the supersaint. We definitely need to wait on that until we have a few cleared, IMO, but its worth a shot later in the game.

Are there any roles that are inherently anti-town? Would it be worth lynching roles that are, as a starting point?

Bulletproof sounds dangerous in the hands of scum and essentially useless for town, since everyone already knows who's bulletproof. Based on that:

vote: DP

That reminds me - Mmm, doctor pepper...

I'll followup on macavity's point and say that suggesting a bulletproof townie is useless is rather dumb. With a competent town, scum are more likely to be lynched, and town more likely to be night killed. Thus, while a bulletproof scum can be dangerous, a bulletproof townie is very helpful to the town.

[MonkeyMan576]

And

Vote: Occum

[MonkeyMan576]

(-) on Cephir for voting for no particular reason when there is a good reason.

[MonkeyMan576]

I would think that in this setup that scum would have a very easy time working around a BP and killing off more important roles like tracker, jailer, any that could potentially out them

EX-FREAKING-ZACTLY.

WE KNOW ALL THE POWER ROLES AND WHO HAS THEM. IT IS TOTALLY OUT IN THE OPEN.

BP TOWNIE IS COMPLETELY USELESS.

That is all. If you think I deserve to get voted out for revealing the obvious, so be it.

But if we're talking about revealing the obvious, how about the fact that Farside basically ruined any chance we had at executing her plan by bringing it up on day one and basically putting a target on the SS?

unvote - vote: farside

This is an obviously false statement. Having a player that can not be night killed can be very useful, especially late in the game when numbers can be more important than powers. I'm pretty sure Occum is scummy now

[MonkeyMan576]

and a big FOS on Gremwall.

[MonkeyMan576]

How many games is that, charter? Links please?

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, so Occam votes himself to try to convince people that he's really town, and then he admits that he attacked without voting, which makes it look like he's trying to throw suspicion off himself without presenting a good arguement to do so.

I understand the pitfalls of a quick lynch, but if everyone who voted for Occum thinks he is the most guilty, it doesn't really make sense to unvote to avoid lynching, if you actually think he is scum. Cephir does look like a bandwagon vote, but at this point I am for more concerned with Occum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Cephir does look like a bandwagon vote

It doesn't just look like a bandwagon vote, it's the most blatent bandwagon vote I've ever seen that didn't come right out and say "I'm voting to bandwagon".

Or alternatively, it looks like

a random vote

.

No it doesn't.

Now you're lieing. LAL.

Where do you see that cephrir was voting on occum based on the votes on him already?

Vote: Occam for no particular reason.

[MonkeyMan576]

The fact that its a fantastic coincidence that he apparently hasn't been reading the posts above him and then all of a sudden votes the guy with the biggest wagon.

C'mon!

So you don't believe Occum had a knee jerk reaction to the votes on him? Do you really belive a pro-town person votes themself?
I do agree that cephrir's vote and no reason at the time look rediculous. I just don't like Occum's post or self vote.

I refuse to believe occum's self vote as anything more that what it usually is: a null tell. Its interesting, but not able to be analysed right now.

you see there are too many variables to deal with here. I can give you one scum-occum for every town-occum scenario you give me. And one town-occum for every scum given to me.

We'll look back on it later, especially if occum is scum.

I think self voting when he did and saying it's town is terrible thing to say. It's not a null thing in my view. The are very, very few times I vote for self and I can see scum doing it to gain sympathy.

You see scumtell, I see nulltell. We're different. I'll review it later, but you must agree that ciphrirs clean lie is a worse act than a selfvote.

Self-voting isn't the only thing Occum has done that's scummy though, there's also suggesting BP isn't a powerful town role, and then strongly defending the statement after a logical reason was given that it is.

[MonkeyMan576]

Anti- town roles:

Janitor
Terrorist
Framer

those are what come to mind.

[MonkeyMan576]

Anti- town roles:

Janitor
Terrorist
Framer

those are what come to mind.

Where's that coming from? None of those roles exist in this game. I assume you're saying that BP isn't an anti-town role. I agree. But as far as roles go, BP is the least useful of the roles we have. Period. I'm done discussing BP and am ready to move on if you are - my vote is already elsewhere.

Well, I disagree that BP is useless, especially with a SK/Vig in the game.

[MonkeyMan576]

I would agree that BP isn't useless if this was not an open setup, but guess what - it is. Everyone knows you're BP. No surprises. People just aren't going to try to kill you at night - they'll kill someone else.

Well, it's one less person for the doctor to protect, at least. The bulletproof can go scum hunting as much as they want without worrying about scum retalliation.

[MonkeyMan576]

Did I miss something on page one. I see nothing about a SK in the game. Is it normal for a SK in small town? I ask because the assumption there is a SK makes my head hurt.

If people are randomly town or scum, that means the vig could be scum, which would be essentially a pro-scum SK.

[MonkeyMan576]

I feel pretty secure in my vote for Occum. He seems angry that he has been called out twice for scummy behavior and is acting accordingly.

[MonkeyMan576]

Also, it should be noted that since Occum voted for Ceph, it is unlikely that they are both scum. That means either they are both town, Occum is scum and Ceph is town, or Ceph is scum and Occum is town. Since they have both exhibited questionable behavior, I think the first scenario is unlikely, I think they are on opposite teams. That means if we lynch one and they are town, then we can lynch the other one day 2(unless better info comes along), and they will likely be scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't see the link that the two cannot be on the same team.

I didn't say they

can't

be, I said it's unlikely, because since Occum voted for Ceph they are probably both not mafia, and since they are both behaving anti-town they are probably both not town.[/u]

[MonkeyMan576]

Also, it should be noted that since Occum voted for Ceph, it is unlikely that they are both scum. That means either they are both town, Occum is scum and Ceph is town, or Ceph is scum and Occum is town. Since they have both exhibited questionable behavior, I think the first scenario is unlikely, I think they are on opposite teams. That means if we lynch one and they are town, then we can lynch the other one day 2(unless better info comes along), and they will likely be scum.

Oman's right, this isn't necessarily true.
Fos monkeyman for pulling the "lynch them both" stunt.

at FOSing a logical statement. I didn't say it was 100% true, I said it was likely, and a possible strategy, not one that we have to follow if something better comes along.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, I'm not getting into silly arguments or voting for myself. He must be scum:).

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkeyman

why would you vote someone you thought was stupid over someone you thought was town?

Only scum would vote someone they thought was town.

FOS: Oman

[MonkeyMan576]

I will wait to comment until others weigh in

Scumtell. If you have an opinion you should say it now.

[MonkeyMan576]

I like everything in Oman's post except:

If Occam is scum I'm looking at:

* Empking
* Monekyman

Where does "if occam is scum" come from? The rest of your post doesn't really lead up to that.

There is a possibility I'm wrong. I accept that. I don't think you're scum, but if you are, these two look like scumbuddies.


Also on the Gremwell's "either Farside or OCcam is scum" I believe they are not both scum, though one could be scum and the other SK so its interestingly useless to think that way.

This makes no sense. I haven't referred to Empking in any of my posts, and gave several solid reasons for my Occum vote.

[MonkeyMan576]

So I don't want to take part in Farside and Occum's little argument and it makes me scum? What is it that I'm supposed to take a position on exactly that I haven't done so already?

[MonkeyMan576]

So I don't want to take part in Farside and Occum's little argument and it makes me scum? What is it that I'm supposed to take a position on exactly that I haven't done so already?

What gives you the impression that people are saying that?

I don't know, but I must have done something wrong to get linked to you as scum if Occum is scum, even though I voted for Occum a long time ago. I'm just confused why I'm getting pointed at.

[MonkeyMan576]

obviously I didn't actually want a plan like that to go through, I proposed it to get reactions, .

Is that, "I acted scummy do get reactions"? (I'm honestly not sure.)

That's exactly what it was. I think I'd rather lynch one of gremwell or MM today. MM is reacting horribly to being very loosely called scum. Way overly panicky. Gremwell isn't even trying to find scum, is acting scummy, and hasn't said one thing this whole game.
Since Oman's 3 sided coin landed on Gremwell.

Unvote, Vote Gremwell

I'm not being panicky, I'm trying to get an explanation for being FOS'd without reasoning.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not voting for Gremwall because I think Occum is scum. I agree with Farside that selfvoting is scummy and I am also suspicious of him claiming that BP townie is worthless.

[MonkeyMan576]

MM did flip out a little but I don't think it was too bad. The worst thing he's done has been terrible logic (this being that farside and Occam basically can't both be scum). Gremwell I get, but I'd rather not lynch him yet since he's the doctor. I would be suspicious of Empking, but I know that he always plays like this. We seem to have quite a few lurkers which needs to be fixed.

Empking, I'd like to know why you don't think my vote was random. Don't just steal everyone else's reasons.

I never said farside and occum can't both be scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not being panicky, I'm trying to get an explanation for being FOS'd without reasoning.

I don't know why you were Fos'd, but you pretty much blew up over it. Also, I just looked back over your posts because I can't really remember you talking very much. You've said about as little as Gremwell. You aren't trying to find scum either, you're just trying to fit in and avoid suspicion.

Ha. Thought it seemed wierd, but I didn't really read it carefully. But yeah, MM is now a solid number two, right after farside,

Why did you have to wait till someone else pointed it out before saying anything?

I read it once briefly, I thought it was odd. When Oman pointed it out I gave it more attention and realized why it was odd. For the love of god, stop trying to use pointless crap. Try and actually do something useful in this game. Why not comment on Gremwell's utter lack of contribution, or his recent very scummy idea? Why not comment on MM's gross overreaction to being called likely scum in the event Occam is scum? Why do you only post terrible logic and pointless questions?

MM did flip out a little but I don't think it was too bad. The worst thing he's done has been terrible logic (this being that farside and Occam basically can't both be scum). Gremwell I get, but I'd rather not lynch him yet since he's the doctor. I would be suspicious of Empking, but I know that he always plays like this. We seem to have quite a few lurkers which needs to be fixed.

Empking, I'd like to know why you don't think my vote was random. Don't just steal everyone else's reasons.

Not lynching someone because of their role is dumb. While doctor can be useful, in hands of scum it's way worse. Stop trying to start a lurkerhunt as well and comment on the people that are talking, they've said plenty.

I'm not voting for Gremwall because I think Occum is scum. I agree with Farside that selfvoting is scummy and I am also suspicious of him claiming that BP townie is worthless.

You forgot "I'm scum with Gremwell". That holds more water than the reasons right there.

I honestly can't see why no one else will wagon Gremwell. What do the rest of you guys want? How do you propose getting him to start talking?

So anyone who doesn't want to bandwagon Gremwell is automatically scum? My policy is not to change my vote unless I think the new person I'm voting for is more scummy than the person I'm currently voting. My reasons for my vote are sound, weather you agree or not.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not sure what I did that was scummy besides asking for a reason for a reason why I would be guilty if Ocum is guilty, but whatever.

[MonkeyMan576]

Roles aside I think Grem's played scummier. Monkeyman isn't far behind but I really don't think we ought to let the fact that this is an open setup get in the way of lynching scum.

Agreed.

I actually want to know why those voting MM picked him over Gremwell. I can see a possibility (remote though it may be) that MM just blew up over getting called scum as town. It doesn't excuse the rest of his scummy actions, but I think regardless, Gremwell is worse.

To me, Occum has messed up twice(undervaluing BP townie, self voting), while Gremwell has messed up once(withholding opinion).

I'm willing to go with the majority on Gremwell if we need my vote for a lynch, but I don't want to give the impression that I'm letting Occum off the hook.

[MonkeyMan576]

Lulz, Gremwell's mistake is bigger than Occam's two put together.

This may be true, but to me the fact that Occam has messed up twice shows a pattern, and to me a pattern is more damning than a one time occurrence. To me a one time occurrence would have to be nearly confirmed scum level damning to be overturn a vote on someone than messed up twice, unless the infractions were minor, which I don't feel is the case for Occam.

[MonkeyMan576]

You guys are silly. We have two prime candidates who have actually done scummy things, in Occum and Gremwall, and you are voting for me, for being upset at being labled scum without a good reason.

[MonkeyMan576]

Like I said, I'd be glad to vote for Gremwall if necessary for a lynch, but certainly not as a threat.

[MonkeyMan576]

All right then...

Unvote: Occum
Vote: Gremwall

[MonkeyMan576]

I already said I'd be willing to change my vote. Are you saying you don't think Gremwall is scummy?

[MonkeyMan576]

I've made my opinion on Occum well known, I still think he's scummy, but I think Gremwall is scummy too. So there's no incosistancies there.

[MonkeyMan576]

All right then...

Unvote: Occum
Vote: Gremwall

Why are you in a rush to finish off this bandwagon?

I'm not in a rush, but there's no point in my vote going to waste and voting after he's lynched. I can't use my politician power until day 2, since I steal votes during the night, so you don't have to worry about that yet.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, I admit I probably should have changed to Gremwall at the beginning, but I thought I others would see the obvious regarding Occum, which they obviously didn't. So yeah, I want to be on the Gremwall wagon because I think he's guilty.

[MonkeyMan576]

If Oman thinks I am acting scummier than Gremwall, he is either stoned or scum. I already explained the reason I overreacted is there was no logic to pointing to me as scum, which is still true.

[MonkeyMan576]

The case against me is really weak. Any townie should see that. Any time anyone says I'm scummy, they fail to actually say the reasons I am scum. And the only reason people have to say I am scummy, those actions are totally reasonable and NOT scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

Funny, I just gave a whole lot of reasons why you're scummy. And if your only defense is "NOT!", well, don't expect to sweep anyone of his feet.

So far, the two reasons I have heard that I am scummy is my reaction to being called scum, which was completely reasonable considering a reason for the vote was not given at the time, and switching my vote, which I have explained fully. So, I don't see either reason as a good reason.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't agree that I'm not scumhunting, I've already stated that Occum and Gremwall are the two scummiest, as far as I'm concerned.

[MonkeyMan576]

RVs are barely over. Do people "actually think he is scum" at this point?

How is any of that scummy, particularly?

Suggesting a BP townie is worthless is scummy because it gives him an excuse to vote for him based on flawed reasoning. Self voting is scummy because the only logical basis for it is to gain town sympathy. If you know you are town you should not be voting for yourself. If you are scum you should not be voting for yourself. In short, any self vote is scummy.

Super-weird reaction to farside's question, but I have no idea what it means.

I mean that if the Vigilante were randomly assigned to be scum, they'd essentially be a pro-scum serial killer.

The wording used in 166 suggests that you thought it was 100% true. So, backtracking?

My wording was:

Also, it should be noted that since Occum voted for Ceph, it is

unlikely

that they are both scum. That means

either

they are both town, Occum is scum and Ceph is town, or Ceph is scum and Occum is town. Since they have both exhibited questionable behavior, I

think

the first scenario is

unlikely

, I

think

they are on opposite teams.

BFE: In know way did I imply it was 100% true.

Any particular reason you think this is why Oman thinks you're potentially their scumbuddies?

I have no idea why Oman thinks we're scumbuddies, which is why I was werided out by the comment.

279 is also clearly contradicted by the actual change of vote.

That's not true, I considered everyone else's opinion, and decided that Gremwell was probably the best vote at this point.


[Quote="RagingRabbit"Yeah, that's not scumhunting.

Semantics. If you want to vote for me because I don't do things the way you want me to, that's your business.

[MonkeyMan576]

Apologies for the formatting, still getting used to this.

[MonkeyMan576]

Sorry about the mistake. Trying to get better.

No, you said you switched because you wanted your vote to be used for something, not that he was the scummiest. Also, the contradiction in 295 is worse, and you avoided addressing it.

Well, they're both actually true. I DO want my vote to mean something. I don't see the point of keeping my vote on Occum when I think Gremwell is scummy as well, and the town is clearly in favor of a Gremwell lynch. I'm really torn between Gremwell and Occum as who I think is scummiest. I've considered everyone's opinions, and Gremwell's behavior WAS really bad, but Occum HAS messed up more than once. So it's really hard to say.

Scumhunting is finding flaws and asking about them, trying to dig deeper into the game.

Well, I suppose some would try to find flaws in every single player, and some would try to concentrate on those they find most guilty. My playing style is the latter.

[MonkeyMan576]

First off, MM's selective-quote response is definitely scummy. You can't respond to some, but not all, of someone's points against you. Otherwise it looks like you're accepting those points, which, if you're scum, perhaps you are.

If I'm selective quoting it is an oversight. I'm happy to respond to any questions.

[MonkeyMan576]

1. The main reason Gremwell is suspected is for trying to line up kills on farside and occam, creating a false dillema stating one of them has to be guilty. In 166, you did the very same thing, only a bit more subtly, with Ceph instead of Farside and a suggested sencond lynching instead of overnight vigging. Since the core of the idea is the same, what exactly in Gremwell's play do you find scummy?

He said he would not give his opinion until others did. Even though I have waited to change my vote to see if other players would be aggreeable to my attack on Occum, I have always been upfront about my opinions. Withholding information, even, maybe even especially your opinions, is definatley a scumtell.

2.And yet you moved your vote to Gremwell, despite explicitly saying you don't find him scummier than Occam, and even in fact that you'll be "glad to vote him if necassary for a lynch,

but certainly not as a threat

". How is this not a contradiction?

My opinion on Gremwell changed(for the worse), and I decided attacking Occum was no longer productive. I'm entitled to change my opinion, and weigh others opinions when appropriate.

3. It was pointed out multiple times that you chose to answer what is clearly not the right form of the question, and yet you still chose to ignore it. Why? Also, why would you vote someone you thought was stupid over someone you thought was scum?

I was trying to point out what I saw as a freudian slip.

4. How does doing two unrelated things you don't like create a "pattern"? Is comitting two scumtells always more indicative than comitting a single one, regardless of how strong they are?

Obviously, committing one grave error is worse that commiting two minor errors, but I don't feel that Occum's errors are minor. When confronted with this issue, one has to consider the problem on a case by case basis, and in this case I felt the other players arguments were compelling, and I didn't feel my argument against Occum was being taken seriously(regardless of the merits), so I decided it best to change my vote.[/b]

5. If selfvoting is equally unwise for town and scum, how is it a scumtell?

If you are town, then you are voting for a known townie(yourself), and if you are scum, self voting is a very forward and clumsy tactic, and you are letting your clumsy play be known to the town, when you should be more subtle.

[Quote="RagingRabbit]6. Are you suspicious of Occam for undervalueing BP's power in the hands of scum (if yes, explain why this is a scumtell), voting early in the game for a weak basis (if yes, explain why this is a towntell), or both (explain both)?

[/quote]

Mostly I am suspicious of Occam for 1) Undervaluing townie BP and 2) Self Voting. I would have to do more research to consider the other two possible scumtells.

[MonkeyMan576]

You're entitled to change opinions, but stating a

policy

of yours which then disappears into thin air is very scummy.

Not really, one has to weigh standard policy vs the individual case.

This is not an answer. Why ignore the actual question? Why are you

still

ignoring the actual question?

That is my answer. I'm sorry that you don't like it.

.

Somewhat taking back your earlier satement a about a pattern here, but whatever.
Anyways, what arguments by other players against Gremwell did you find compelling?

That's the main one.

This is not an answer. How is it a scumtell, than?

If you are town, you do not vote for town(yourself). Occum voted for himself, meaning either he is scum or he has some alterior motive, and is just acting scummy. Either way, a scumtell

Mostly I am suspicious of Occam for 1) Undervaluing townie BP and 2) Self Voting. I would have to do more research to consider the other two possible scumtells.

Also not an answer. Why is undervaluing a role scummy?[/quote]

This habit of yours of saying something is not an answer, when in fact you just don't like the answer, is rather annoying. But to clarify, if you undervalue a role, it gives you a reason to vote for a possible townie, and then when they turn up town, say, "it's not a big deal because it's not an important role."

[MonkeyMan576]

question MM: Why would you vote someone you thought was stupid over someone you thought was scum?

In Occum's case, I thought he was stupid AND scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

You're entitled to change opinions, but stating a

policy

of yours which then disappears into thin air is very scummy.

Not really, one has to weigh standard policy vs the individual case.

Except for the fact that you changed your mind on this "policy" less than 20 posts later. Changing your mind like that is very simply an excuse to jump votes.

Seriously guys, this is getting kind of silly. Is there any point to discussing night actions for Night 1, or is it too early/too many people to make complicated plans?

Really, you're reading to much into it. I switched from Occum to Gremwell because I thought they're both scummy, that's it. Now, either you think Gremwell is scum, or you think I'm scum. If you think I'm scum, get on with it and don't be suprised when I come up town, considering I'm the one who caught Gremwell's main scumtell. But it's really telling that niether Occum or Gremwell have voted for me, because they both know that if they hammer me and I turn up town, they will(rightfully) be looked on as scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

I just love being a guinie pig to see if Gremwell is scum or not.

[MonkeyMan576]

There is no case against me. The only serious points against me have been refuted.

[MonkeyMan576]

Scale of 1-10, 1=scum, 10=town

(3)Cephrir - Prime Function Aki-Zeta 5, One-Shot Masonier
*Has been lurking a lot since being fingered at the beginning.
(6)charter - Prophet Cha Dawn, Vigilante
*Has been doing a pretty good job of scumhunting, not sure I agree with all of his logic.
(2)christiano drago - Comissioner Pravin Lal, Jailkeeper
*he can pick a role but not post the rest of the day?
(8)Crazy Raging Rabbit - Datatech Sinder Roze, Tracker
*Has been pretty consistantly scumhunting, though I would like to see him have the ability to consider others opinions other than his own, a little bit of tunnel vision.
(4)Drunken Piper - Colonel Corazon Santiago, Bulletproof
*Lurking
(4)Empking - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Supersaint
*Pretty much following and not adding anything new to the discussion.
(3)farside22 - Academician Prokhor Zakharov, Inventor
*Voted for me even though there is a stronger case against Gremwell, and dropped her attack on Occum even though he was still suspicious.
(1)Gremwell - Lady Deirdre Skye, Doctor]
*Wanted to see what others said before giving opinion.
MacavityLock - Foreman Domai, Roleblocker
(7) - Solid scum hunter
MonkeyMan576 - C.E.O. Nwabudike Morgan, Politician
* - Will refrain, I know I'm town, obviously others don't.
(1)Occam - Captain Ulrik Svensgaard, Commuter
- Suggesting BP townie is worthless, self voting.
(5)Oman - Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, Redirector
*follower aka Empking

[MonkeyMan576]

Appeal to Emotion:

I just love being a guinie pig to see if Gremwell is scum or not.

Monkey really doesn't have solid answers to the questions directed towards him or the points raised against him. He's fallen back on making it look like we're just using him to check if Gremwell's scum when it's clear to anyone actually reading that the case against him is much more than that.

I'd really be surprised if Monkey isn't scum. Whether or not Gremwell is scum doesn't necessarily hinge on Monkey being scum, either, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. They could both be scum, like I said, and it wouldn't surprise me, as I've said many times, but the cases against both Grem and Monkey are independent of one another, so I think its worth noting that Monkey himself brought this up.

'

Occum is just trying to mask his own scummy behavior. There's no solid case against me and everyone knows it. All I ask is that if I'm lynched, when I come up town you look at those that drove my lynch.

[MonkeyMan576]

There's no solid case against me and everyone knows it.

...That's not true, and you know it.

The primary case against me is my "reaction" to being voted on without any reason and switching my vote to someone I actually believe to be scummy, so my point is the case against me is very thin and I'm a townie through and through. It's not like my power can be used for scum without being obvious.

[MonkeyMan576]

I hope everyone(especially townies voting for me), can see how silly Occum's and RR's arguments are.

[MonkeyMan576]

Could you give some examples of why Oman's a "follower"?

I don't see why it matters, as you're determined to see me as scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

You should though, it's good for your town act. That way it'll look like you're trying to supply us with leads for later.

I'm glad to see you're admitting to you're tunnel vision.

FOS: RagingRabbit

[MonkeyMan576]

You have a very creative way of interperting posts.

Serisouly, if you're a townie, why not supply us this info?

There's no point in taking questions for someone who's not open minded to your alliance. The point of questioning is to determine if someone is innocent or guilty, not to lay trap after trap until something sticks. I'll have more than enough opportunities to prove my towniness in the future.

[MonkeyMan576]

How do you figure this?

I point out that with Occum and Gremwell, two people I have pointed out as scummy, having not voted for me yet, and me being at L-2, that they would have enough votes by themselves to hammer me. Then Occum(predictably) votes for me, saying he wants to "see what happens", clearly implying that he wants to see if Gremwell will vote for me or not not. To me, Occum is trying to cover his losses, since he can always say voting at L-2 for a townie is not as scummy as voting for L-1 for a townie. In actuality, however, this seems to be a variation on appeal to probability, and nearly just as scummy as Gremwell's potential hammer(which can't be done now with Farside's unvote). In actuality, it might be MORE scummy, because it relies on two scummy actions, the vote itself, and the appeal to probability.

[MonkeyMan576]

Scale of 1-10, 1=scum, 10=town
MacavityLock - Foreman Domai, Roleblocker
(7) - Solid scum hunter

I am Monkey's 2nd towniest read. What does it say about Monkey when he says that I'm a "Solid scum hunter" when the only bandwagon I've been on with any conviction is his?

Once Yos2 makes his posts and Grem returns, can we just end this?

I meant that you've been attempting to look for scum, not that your reads have been correct. IMHO, someone who makes an honest attempt to look for scum and is wrong, is better than someone who is lurking or hindering the town.

[MonkeyMan576]

[

I still like my vote where it is. grem needs to post, but I dont like some of the statements used to push the MM case. that being said, I think that there are some valid cases against MM (yes there are MM). Interested in hearing Yos's thoughts.[/quote]

I didn't say there was no case against me, I said the case was weak. I would reiterate this and also say there are some that are obviously trying to exaggerate the case against me into being more than it should be, and I don't understand why Gremwell is being protected, when it seems pretty obvious that he's scummier.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey, what's your case on Gremwell?

He wanted to wait until others gave their opinion before giving his. That's scummy and deceitful. Evidently other people have cases against him as well, but you'd have to ask them.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey, what's your case on Gremwell?

He wanted to wait until others gave their opinion before giving his. That's scummy and deceitful. Evidently other people have cases against him as well, but you'd have to ask them.

So, because of this one fact, he's scummier than you?

Yeah, I think it's a pretty strong case. I haven't been deceitful.

[MonkeyMan576]

Oh thats right, you had the vote removed to avoid the hammer, is that right?

Could Grem

and

MM be scum or just one or the other?

Considering I was the one who called out Grem I would think that would be obvious.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not scum, I'm town, so this whole train of thought is pointless.