Vote : Mana_Ku
Mini 681 - Mish Mash Mafia - THE END!
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Unvote
This seems like a good idea. Except that I think we should discuss as normal *then* ask for kill choices and elect the executioner.Caboose wrote:Here's what I suggest.
We each pick a person that we would kill if elected executioner. Once we have everyone covered (everyone's got somebody that would kill them), then we play like a regular mafia game. Instead of voting for the person we want to lynch, we vote for the executioner who would kill that person.
Is that OK, or is that stupid?All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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You're supposed to vote for people you find pro-town, in this game. Why voting for someone you think suggesting something you think is pro-scum?Knight of Cydonia wrote:I refuse to state who I would kill, because as soon as the scum know who each of us would kill, they can and more than likely will attempt to steer lynches onto town players who would kill town.
Vote Caboosefor suggesting it.
Your remark does make sense though.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Back from my long WE. Wow you guys moved that thing fast.
After my catching up, two players stood out as towniest in my eyes : Mana_Ku for giving the most pro-town analysis, and sekinj for being the player whose ideas I agree the most with.
The two are pretty close, but I'm going toVote : Mana_Kubecause she came up slightly on top.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Bad. Elect an executioner then getting him to select a target is better, because it gives town more info : once as a normal vote, and another nice bit on the executioner himself.letsbefriends wrote:Do you think skipping the 'elect an executioner' stage would be good or bad for town?All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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- following majority is a decision, and gives infoletsbefriends wrote:The only additional information you gain from electing the executioner is if they decide to not follow majority decision and lynches someone on their own. If they follow majority decision, it yields no information. And little bit of information you do get is WIFOM. If the executioner kills scum, they could be town with good scumdar, or they could be scum bussing. I don't see how that is more useful than completely eliminating that step to remove it.
- it's no more WIFOMy than a standard vote
I think my point stands.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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I disagree. The steps are obviously different, thus there is no chance we'd get the same info. But if you're talking about quality, both electing an executioner and voting for a lynch would be the same (I don't think you're discussing this), but we'd have a chance to get extra info from the execution itself (I agree, it's not a big chance, but I don't think the chance is inexistant).letsbefriends wrote:
I'm saying it gives no ADDITIONAL information. If we skip electing executioner, we will still be majority voting on a lynch, thus getting the same information.lord_hur wrote: - following majority is a decision, and gives info
You're comparing one person to the entire population. It's a lot easier to catch scum and scumbuddies alike when having everyone participate than when narrowing it down to one person.[/quote]lord_hur wrote: - it's no more WIFOMy than a standard vote
Of course, but then we'd have both a decision in which everyone is participating, *plus* a single-person decision. More is still better, even if marginally.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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As much as I prefer sekinj's reasoning to LBF's overall, I have to agree with her here. Looks quite scummy to me.letsbefriends wrote:
How does her playstyle in other games affect her alignment in this game?orangepenguin wrote:No, I have been reading. sekinj has by far the best strategy. Plus, I've played with her before, so I trust her more than anyone else (as much as you can trust anyone in these games).-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Not that it is very important, but I was voting for Mana_Ku, so the vote count is a bit off.
I'dlynch OPover LBF, but not by a huge margin. I don't find the fact that he entered the game scummy, as it is not a good move for either scum or town. The only thing I have against him is his strange trust of sekinj, and it is not a huge thing. Still enough to select him though, as I don't have much against LBF.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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I don't think it is absudly powerful. For one, it is not one vs one, and we can easily make him lose 20 points each round if he "abuses" this power (like, putting 5 into attack, rest into defense each round to get an insane power amount round after round...).
For two, some people (read : farside22) got absurdly low starting power, so the mini-game could end very fast, negating most of the advantage of this power.
But even if it was that powerful, why would you find that suspicious ? He had no guarantee that he (or one of his pals, if he's scum) would get it, right ?
MOD : I guess that the first person who loses is considered lynched, right ? But what if two people lose on the same round ?-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Actually, no you can't, since she gains 5 power right away from rally.Caboose wrote:I'd like to know what stratagy Farside was using. I hope she knows that I could knock her out of the game Round 1 without allocating a single point to attacks.
And as ShadowGirl said, power prices exceeded their usefulness.
For example, why the hell spend 21 power to get 10 attack (slander) : that's a 11 power net loss, AND it forces you to use those 10 on attack. Same goes for clean campaign and campaign commercial.
Quick Witted Riposte is too situational, and only worth it if comboed with Electoral College. Buying both was too expensive.
Rally and Obama bomb rely on the fact that the game drags on, which is far from certain.
Only Expose Dark Secret and Electoral College got me thinking. For Expose Dark Secret, at that steep price (25 net power loss), I figured that if I found someone particularly scummy, I could just attack with my massive 100 power and actually overpower their defenses.
And for Electoral College... It's a very cool power, but the price was just too high for me. It would have left me with only 49 power to attack, which is not enough firepower for my taste.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Yes, like this :
Attack Empking : 30
For being the only player who has voted to get both OP and LBF killed, and also, on reread, for lack of meaningful participation in the previous day's discussion (in my opinion, of course).
Please note that it is possible to unattack (in this case, if Empking improves the quality of his interventions).-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Empking's posts 22 and 25.farside22 wrote:
Can you quote where mafia does point to both LBF and OP please?lord_hur wrote:Yes, like this :
Attack Empking : 30
For being the only player who has voted to get both OP and LBF killed, and also, on reread, for lack of meaningful participation in the previous day's discussion (in my opinion, of course).
Please note that it is possible to unattack (in this case, if Empking improves the quality of his interventions).
Also so far my minimal experience with SSk is he is'nt very helpful no matter his alignment. But I do suspect him in this game as he is laying far lower then I normally see and I don't see him contributing squat to this game.
I also wouldn't oppose a MafiaSSK assault, since I naturally dislike heavy lurkers (though I must admit I haven't be so active in the first part of the game, as I had a very tough working period ; this will pick up though), and I agree that he has contributed even less than Empking.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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What's with people not saying why they attack ? I think I'm the only one that gave anything resembling a justification...
Attacking in this mini game is like voting, so it should be justified, in my opinion. Unless there's something I don't get...All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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You talk in the past tense, yet I didn't see much improvement lately. You still didn't make a single attack on anyone.MafiaSSK wrote:Fang Tooth Nightmare was horrible I have to admit.
Also Farside, I've had a buch of stuff to do I can't be as talktive as I usually am.
Ok, I'm not sure I'll be able to place my attacks before the deadline if I don't do it now, so here they are based on my current suspicions :
Attack Empking : 20 (for a total of 50)
Attack MafiaSSK : 30
Defend : 20-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Hmm, seems the day/turn isn't over yet.
I don't like how some people (SG, MafiaSSK and RF) didn't play at all. Of all those, only MafiaSSK has some kind of excuse, since he can give his moves after everyone else.
It also makes me nervous that everyone else followed my attack on Empking. Either he's obvious scum, or he's innocent and there are scum riding this train.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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While I will agree that what Empking did was "obviously selfish", what are you thinking of ShadowGirl, who just put 100 into defense and did no scumhunting at all ?farside22 wrote:It's hard to ignore someone who is being obviously selfish as well as combative for no reason. That allow would be vote worthy if votes mattered.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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While I will agree that what Empking did was "obviously selfish", what are you thinking of ShadowGirl, who just put 100 into defense and did no scumhunting at all ?farside22 wrote:It's hard to ignore someone who is being obviously selfish as well as combative for no reason. That allow would be vote worthy if votes mattered.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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he = Empking, and I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would find that rude. Unless I am using "nuts" inappropriately, which is possible since english is not my first language. In this case, I apologize.farside22 wrote:
Yay if he is it better not be directed at me. Because that is rude.lord_hur wrote:Unless he's nuts, I think he was talking about another game.
I meant that unless Emking was not thinking when he was typing, he must have been talking about another game.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Simply because I remember liking your and sekinj's interventions in day 1, who seemed genuine to me in their intention of helping town.Caboose wrote:@LH and RF: Why do you think sekinj and I are pro-town?
And about day 2, everyone either voted for Empking or just protected themselves. There was no real discussion as we all went for him, so I feel like scum could have safely stayed away from the voting. Day 2 thus gave very little info in my opinion.
So I chose to trust my conclusions in day 1, in which we were much more active.
If I had to vote to lynch someone, it would not be one of you two. Thus I'm willing to get you two out of the equation.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Not in my eyes. Even if he's scum, he could be bussing too.sekinj wrote:Since he has been one of the scummiest players... maybe that just about clears both of us...
I'd like MafiaSSK to expand on his accusation too. I guess every message in favor of another player could be seen as mafia helping each other, but I didn't see this message as especially suspicious. Well, except that sekinj is again following my vote, and last time it lead to a mislynch... Can't really blame him, since I still think my points were valid and he has a brain too, but still...-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Ridiculous ? I'm not so sure. Day 2, when I saw the attacks piling up upon my own, I had the distinct feeling that such a consensus could not have been reached without a couple scum participating. Since there was the possibily of scum bussing, I didn't change my attacks (plus it wouldn't have changed a thing concerning the outcome), but allow me to be cautious about votes following the same pattern today.sekinj wrote:@LH - dont' be ridiculous. I'm not following anyone. We all obviously have to agree in order to declare someone safe. My vote has nothing to do with yours.
Also, please avoid using empty and unverifiable affirmations like this, it brings nothing to the discussion :
There is no way I can be sure that your vote wasn't cast because of mine.sekinj wrote: My vote has nothing to do with yours.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Looking forward to it. Your low participation makes it very had for me to assess you, and it makes you look like scum hanging back and waiting.I'd be grateful if you were a bit more offensive.ShadowGirl wrote:Will post when I get home from school.
Can you develop on this, sekinj ? It looks like nearly-standard voting with 6 mini-days to me, which is much in favor of town in my opinion.sekinj wrote:hmmm.... I think this is much harder than regular lynching.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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I don't have anything against you for now except that voting right after me too times in a row, which might very well be a coincidence.sekinj wrote:@LH: If you have a case on me, please make it instead of just nit-picking at my wording.
I could answer to this, but it would be pointless for the discussion.sekinj wrote:You say that I can't make statements about the motive of my vote because that is unverifiable, yet we are supposed to trust thefeelingsthat you are professing to have?? Pot, meet kettle.
You know, you don't *have* to vote for me. Vote for me, or don't. Though you'll have to tell me how attacking in all directions is scummy. On the contrary, only scum know on whom to focus their attacks. I guess town could legitimately follow his guts and attack only one person to bring him down, but not in LyLo (in my opinion anyway). Scumhunting is still our best bet (something people kinda forgot with these mini-games, and I'm especially talking about day 2).sekinj wrote:and Yes, I believe it is much harder to go through and say one by one that each person is town, rather than just pick one player who is acting scummy. For example: I'm going to have a very hard time voting you as town because these flailing attacks seem to be cast out in all directions and have no point or focus. I'd like to see you take a stand on something.
Also, I'm taking a stand, even have been the first to vote, but I'm not willing to accept anyone as guaranteed town, because I've made that mistake before, and that cost me victory.
There's one thing I'm sure about : passive play never helped to find scum. Pardon me if I play agressively in LyLo.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Hmm you're right, this guy is a one-liner artist :/Knight of Cydonia wrote:MafiaSSK is a proven major lurker, whether town or scum.
I suggest from now on we D1 lynch him in every game until he starts playing properly.
I must say I also support this proposition. But it doesn't help right now as we're in LyLo, and I'm at a loss as to how to get hints about his scumminess.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Since (assuming that you're town) the other townies don't know that you're town, the impact of that strategy would be rather limited, no?Caboose wrote:
So they can appear as a townie.lord_hur wrote:
And what would be the point of securing a townie, for scum? (because you will claim townie, right?)Caboose wrote:I find it weird that KoC flung some crap attacks at me D1 and then goes to dropping the hammer on me D3.
(And, yes, I'm town)-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Crap attack ? I'm not so sure... SG's accusation rang a bell, and made me reread Empking's lynch. KoC and sekinj attacked him one right after the other, the third attacker (after me) being none other than Caboose...Caboose wrote:
I want something more than a crap attack.ShadowGirl wrote:It's a gut feeling. It just seemed like it was rushed. What more do you wan?
I know, Empking was obvious scum and all that, but this is quite a coincidence, don't you think ?
Damn, and these 3 were my top pro-town choices... Voting will be tough, today...-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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I think saying that I've been "convinced by her vibes" is a bit abusive. I think I've added a sizable element, which originated in my own reflexions. Thus I claim this idea as mine (not that it's a big thing...).sekinj wrote:LH - you are being blown around by every idea that comes across. How can you possibly be convinced by SG's vibes when you earlier stated that I can't even tell you my personal motives for a vote because they can't be proven?
And I don't think I'm getting "blown around", which implies that I'm not controling where my thoughts are leading me. This observation I made only shifted my suspicions a bit, nothing more. I'm not of the type to be influenced by other people, unless I have the obsolute proof that they are town (well actually, it made me lose once, and I'm not going to make the mistake again).
That said, you are free to make your own investigations and come to better conclusions.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Unfounded suspicions ? Are you claiming that you know they are unfounded ? Anyway, this is a crap attack.Caboose wrote:in hopes that I can fling around some unfounded suspicions at some people on his wagon
This is your opinion. Unless you can prove me that it is a widely accepted opinion, then it can be a proper defense.Caboose wrote:Hopefully nobody recognizes the fact that being on a townie wagon is not a scumtell
Crap logic is logical fallacy. I showed a fact, nothing more.Caboose wrote:and that I'm using crap logic to try to cast some suspicion onto Caboose and sekinj to get people to second guess themselves.[/color]
This is the only thing making sense, and should have constituted your only defense. What was this reason ?Caboose wrote:Caboose had a good reason for attacking Empking
Since it seems you need to learn what crap attack is, this is it. An attack not based on any fact or reasoning.Caboose wrote:Caboose already got cleared so we don't get to mislynch him. I guess we can still go after sekinj. Getting a mislynchwill be tough, today...
Why are you only talking about sekinj, and not KoC ? Because he is the only one you have to defend ?-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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And this is crap logic / logical fallacy : using mere opinion for established fact to make a point.Caboose wrote:
Being on a townie wagon=/=scumtellUnfounded suspicions ? Are you claiming that you know they are unfounded ? Anyway, this is a crap attack.
The foundation to your argument just vanished.
I find rushed votes significantly more scummy. Especially when repeatedly done, *and* with the same persons, since scum tend instinctively to coordinate their attacks.Caboose wrote:
It's my opinion that I've formed through experience. Do you have an alternate one? If so, please share.This is your opinion. Unless you can prove me that it is a widely accepted opinion, then it can be a proper defense.
Again, your opinion. And since you appear to be anything but flexible, this means that all attacks against you are scummy.Caboose wrote:
I find that people who make crap attacks often flip scum. So no, my attack is not a crap attack but I point out that SG, SSK, and you are trying to attack me for something that's not a scumtell or not even scummy.Since it seems you need to learn what crap attack is, this is it. An attack not based on any fact or reasoning.
Ah ok, sekinj is not scummy because she is the only one who didn't attack you. You should have said that right from the start.Caboose wrote:
If sekinj is scum, then she's playing a really good game right now because I don't see anything scummy about her play. KoC, on the other hand, has made some scummy moves Day 1, which includes attacking me for something not scummy.Why are you only talking about sekinj, and not KoC ? Because he is the only one you have to defend ?
@all : did anyone play with Caboose before, and if yes, does he always show this kind of behavior ?-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Town loses when all 3 scum are voted, not when the first one is. Caboose can still be scum.RestFermata wrote:I don't understand lord_hur's continued accusation of Caboose. How can he continue to attack Caboose now that he is cleared as town? If Caboose was mafia, the game would be over. We've entered the next voting stage, so he needs to lose the tunnel vision and look for other pairs.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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@SG : I actually like a couple isolated observations of yours, but seriously, that's a LOT of assumptions. Especially that "scum not attacking each other" thing : scum can bus each other you know, and nearly every game has examples of it.
And about MafiaSSK : my heart nearly stopped when I say him seemingly posting more than one line, then I realized that he just made a mistake with quotes.... Seriously, I have no idea how to handle this : how do you determine whether a person is scum or not if he is not playing ?All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Logically, as I have no idea how to assess him, I should place MafiaSSK at exact neutral (between those I think are more town, and those I think are on the scummy side), so he would not be my last voted. Problem is, I hate this kind of play, so I think I will not act logically in this one case.RestFermata wrote:I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. Healwaysacts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.-
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- Location: France
No, meta cannot help in any way in this case.MafiaSSK wrote:
Is it because I'm playing as I usually would without any change to my meta?lord_hur wrote:
Logically, as I have no idea how to assess him, I should place MafiaSSK at exact neutral (between those I think are more town, and those I think are on the scummy side), so he would not be my last voted. Problem is, I hate this kind of play, so I think I will not act logically in this one case.RestFermata wrote:I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. Healwaysacts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1204
- Joined: February 20, 2008
- Location: France
Bleh, no more activity? What's up, activity looked good till now...
Ok, well, enough with hesitations. sekinj has scored more town vibes with me than any other player. That voting right with KoC two times looks not so good after a partial reread (as SG said, I must admit there's not much evidence of them being scum pals other than that), and she responded quite well to attacks.
Also, I cannot picture myself voting her after MafiaSSK, RF or even KoC.
Sovote : sekinj-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1204
- Joined: February 20, 2008
- Location: France
Because your participation is insignificant (in my opinion at least), so there's no way to discern any variation in your play that could be specific to you playing town, or you playing scum.MafiaSSK wrote:
Why?lord_hur wrote:
No, meta cannot help in any way in this case.MafiaSSK wrote:
Is it because I'm playing as I usually would without any change to my meta?lord_hur wrote:
Logically, as I have no idea how to assess him, I should place MafiaSSK at exact neutral (between those I think are more town, and those I think are on the scummy side), so he would not be my last voted. Problem is, I hate this kind of play, so I think I will not act logically in this one case.RestFermata wrote:I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. Healwaysacts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1204
- Joined: February 20, 2008
- Location: France
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1204
- Joined: February 20, 2008
- Location: France
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1204
- Joined: February 20, 2008
- Location: France