Mini 635: WOMAFIA - Forbiddanlight + Vagina-Haters win!

[nonny]

random vote Darla

this movie makes me sad, I saw it once....yeah.

[nonny]

bra's do suck mirth. Poeple always make fun of how big mine is, and I can never buy pretty ones cause they don't come in anything over D. >.<

I hate miller claims for the earlier reasons stated. Though the only logic I see for the uncle sam poster is that uncle sam is supposed to be a good guy but a lot of poeple don't like him and associate his picture with the military or a draft which is seen as bad. I have no clue what any of that has to do with us as women though.

[nonny]

unvote

it was random and don't really see why there is the bandwagon. Fuller post coming once i re-read.

[nonny]

OKay it wasn't the re-read that was taking time, it was life outside scum. I do apologize for the delay. Re-read didn't really reveal anything new to me.

For mirth's question: I honestly don't know what I would do if I was miller, I've seen the role a total of two times and niether of the games a finished for me to know if it was scum trick or honesty. So Yeah not sure which I would do. Like I said before I don't like a miller claim, but if in the situation I might calim.

Lord Gurgi: I havn't stated whether or not a believe it, because I have no real answer with out over analysizing it or doing WIFOM. So for now i'm just taking it as you claimed miller, not that you are miller.

I don't get the validity of the meta gaming. It seems some poeple are throwing accusations or trusting poeple just based on how they have played with them before. I think this is a bad way to go about a game. I personally am against metagaming. So I don't get why you would right someone off as most likely town this early

[nonny]

Nonny: if you had to pick someone to lynch right this instant, who would you pick and why?

Basically thus far, as falcone pointed out, I'm not finding anything overly suspicous, nor anything overly town. Though I don't see how that deserves an FOS, I play rather caustiously. Though if you asked me to pick at this point it would almost be random. There has been good discussion but not many slips or anything that caught my eye. So far the juice seems to have been meta gaming which I don't really like to implement.

Scum don't always wagon jump at random for oppurtunisms sake. I know that I don't do this when I'm scum. Neither do a lot of other players.

I do find this post rather scummy though. Mostly for the second line. Why did you feel the need to say your play style as scum? When poeple pull stuff like that it bugs me almost more than in newbie games where they start off saying "I'm vanilla townie" This would bring up WIFOM. But with this line it does seem you are trying to say "if i was scum i would be doing this" or "I can't be scum cause I'm not doing this" which leads to "I'm town because I was nice enough to tell you how I play or don't play as scum and why would I do that if I was scum?" Which is rather scummy I think. You could have had that statement letigatmatly without the second line, still would have functioned. That line served no purpose towards your point.

[nonny]

I already re-read the game. And I did so because it was moving faster than I was keeping up with it. I didn't find anything in particular but rather just answered questions directed at me and other such things. I didn't find anything new really to point out, which is disappointing.

[nonny]

Forgotting who mod is I can understand, since in another game I just asked for a prod on the mod.

But having lurkers as your top lynch canidates doesn't seem that helpful, just because they are lurkers doesn't mean they are scum, so if lurking is the fault you have I don't see how that in itself is worthy of a lynch.

[nonny]

farside: I like how you take one post and use that. I know I havn't been posting a lot but I have more than that one post. My stance on miller claim isn't strong because i've yet to have a game finsih that I was in with a miller, so I'm not even sure what my stance is.

Falcone's case makes sense.

[nonny]

i have had opinions on topics and have shared them. I have nothing new that I havn't already shared.

[nonny]

If i had to vote it would probably be for spacecase because I want to hear more about that. I'm not going to vote however just to have a vote. I understand your point and I am trying to contribute more but right now I don't have anything new to say that hasn't been said.

[nonny]

Mirth: you are kind of a nag....lol j.k

I never disappeared, I've had announced v/la but that is about it...I have been reading at the begining the game was moving faster than I was. I'm actually too wondering why I don't have strong suspects...guess that means I need to read the thread...again >.> will do so shortly.

[nonny]

Some of this has already been covered, but these are my thoughts as re-reading. I guess there was stuff there I just wasn't look at it right(sorry for being lazy >.<)

2. She asked Lord Gurgi if his claim was serious or not, then before he responded, stated that it's “theoretically best” to claim at the beginning of the game as a miller, which makes me feel as though she knew the claim was serious beforehand and that she tried to lend credence to the claim. Then, after Lord Gurgi confirmed his claim, she asked for a counterclaim, which seems a very strange thing to do after a miller claim, and again has the implicit connotation of “Well, if there’s no counterclaim, I’ll believe the claim”. Since I don’t see why there can’t be either zero or two or more millers in a game (see for example this thread: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8831), the absence of a counterclaim doesn’t tell us anything about the value of Lord Gurgi’s claim.

On my re-read I actually see why she asked for a counter-claim. If someone countered that would be gurgi was most likly scum making it up. Miller is not a very risky thing to claim since it's so rare, but it is possible scum would try it and might get counter-calimed. (confirmed in post 98)

I see why a miller would be a douchebag, everyone hates douche's but they are good(sort of). I think the picture just happens to be uncle sam. You google "douchebag" and the third image is that uncle sam one.

All I am saying is that after we've exhausted d1, if no one is REALLY scummy, that LG would be the best lynch, because its win win either way.

I find it a very false statement. If he is telling the truth, we lose a townie. Which is not a win, it is in fact a lose. Just ebcause he isn't a power role doesn't mean he is completly disposable.

The flavour makes sense so I'm going to treat gurgi as a confirmed town from here on in.

Still haven't decided who I think is scummy though.

very poor reasoning.

FoS admiral

I can't see any townie writing some one off as confirmed this early. Falcone and Gurgi both touched on this.


DBE reverts to WIFOM in almost everypost, it's a little irksome. We know at this point she thinks it's WIFOM, why not move on to the rest of the game?

Mariyta: you are still not actually answering my question and starting to convince me that my vote is in the right place. I asked you, as an experienced player, about your no substance comment when I voted you. You still have not responded to this despite me asking you to multiple times. Now you failed to explain what you meant by "overreact" And you "people attack me and I give up and quit" answer just now seems like a bit of a cop out, like you're saying not to attack you.

Agree with this post regarding mariyta

DBE posts 140 and 128 are pointless. No one was eagerly requesting information. Didn't need to update twice on one page to say I'm not quite ready to post.

Sometimes people don't talk because they can't think of anything to say. This may be because they haven't been able to get on as much and really take a good look at the game, or because whenever they think of something to say they realise that someone else has already said it or a number of other reasons. As I said this sort of thing has happened to me quite a few times in the past; in some games I'm very talkative and in others I'm a bit of a wall flower. Basically I don't think it's a very good indication of whether someone is scum or not.

QFT

On the LG case, I've already explained myself, and I don't intend to lynch him flippantly or even suggest such a thing. MY position is quite clear in my posts, and a lot of LG's recent activity is making me more comfortable with his claim.

then why say he is a last resort or not valueble?

Nonny random-voted Darla, then jumped of her wagon without much meaningful comment on it. Hasn’t expressed suspicion or trust of any other player.

I would never express trust in a player unless they were confirmed, but especially not day one ever. Don't see why you would be expecting trust, I see the other portion of the post's point though.

Farside22: Really hard to figure out if she is scummy or not due to her game play. Which makes it hard for me at least to make an assessment.

Either her play is scummy or not, making her scummy. I personally don't think you should right it off just because that is how she can act. If you see something scummy point it out.

Falcone: You seem to be running the conversation which is kinda scary. It's a plausible thought to say that he could be a scum figure.

I don't see how he is running the convrsation, if anything mirth is. Which is good, since the converstation has yet to die. And with the deadline approaching I don't see why you would say this is a scumtell.

ThAdmiral agrees with mirth on townlist/scumlists says he might do his own, then when asked to do so says he doesn't actually have one. Seems a bit odd. Do though agree with his statement on spacecase.

that seems like a waste of a lynch LG. I have my answer now. I'd lynch LG if it came down to it.

I think it is a bit strong to go after LG for that, given that lurker lynches are not the worst idea day one (although they're not a great one) and furthermore LG is not the only person going after lurkers.

Agree since spacecase was talking about lynching LG not simply voting for him over it.

Another pointless "i'm not ready to post" post from DBE (221)

I really am up in the air on almost everyone so far, I'd still really like the more lurky players to come out and contribute some as we can't really get a feel for you all if you don't post.

We have 1 week right now I believe...and I must say I'm liking this Elvis as Scum thing

A bit hypocritical(i know now i'm being hypocritical) to call out the lurkers when she hasn't post that much either and has only posted about wanting to post ever since she came under some heat.

Mariyta has given up without even trying, a little bothersome. And I hate metagame but it's not how I have seen her act in another game recently.

FOS DBE, will turn into a vote after i see a current count

FoS Spacecase

[nonny]

vote Darla

I want to hear a lot more from her, especially with the deadline.

[nonny]

It's not just that she isn't participating, mirth, it's that she is doing so blatantly. Most of her posts are promises for more posts, or her saying she is too busy to post.

She need to post something legit by the deadline. If she does and it's satisfactory then I'll switch to spacecase.

[nonny]

I want to know that too (see above)

mod has DBE been prodded? thanks

MOD UPDATE!

I prodded DBE today. Also, spacecase has yet to pick up his prod from thursday. Xyzzy promised a post and never posted. SOOOO... I'm going to see who gets back to me (by like end of tomorrow), and who needs replacement. I have one replacement waiting in the wings. Hopefully we won't need more.

I will extend the deadline by one week if I put in a replacement. But don't let that be a reason for you to slack off!

[nonny]

thanks DBE for doing the exact same thing you've been doing. Vote is still going to stay till she says something contributing.

[nonny]

I'm satisfied with that right now.

unvote, vote spacecase

she was next on my list.


(random: I keep seeing everyone called she and i'm like are they really a she, then realize in this game they are ^.~)

[nonny]

mirth see post 251. Also, I may have not been the most active. But most of my posts do have some content not just promises for more posts. All posts have atleast a reply to a question, none are simply "will post more later but i'm too busy now even though i'm posting this"

Admiral that is a little rude, but sort of funny none the less.

[nonny]

Everyone is she in this game ^.^

Now then, I also saw your Darla vote which you removed after a rather weak (contentwise) post from Darla where Darla jumped on the only viable wagon that wasn't her's. After this you unvoted and switched to Spacecase. Now then, while you did FOS him, the vote still strikes me as very odd because Darla pretty much echoed some stuff said earlier, listed townies, and brushed the miller conversation aside. Why are you satisfied with this?

I agree it was weak. I said I was merely satisfied for now. For one thing the fact that she did actually need a prod to post was something I was testing, because we have all been in those games where you say X is lurking and then a few posts later X is posting a fairly good analysis or atleast one that isn't a promise for more. I personally think that for now(this may change) she isn't the best lynch candidate. Also, it may just be she wasn't paying attention, which isn't a good thing but it does happen. So that makes me think either she is a townie with a vanilla role and doesn't feel that invested, or she is very bad lazy scum. Based on this I'm more interested in the case on spacecase. Yes, I'm not the only one to ask those questions, but (s)he has yet to answer them from what I see.

Also spacecase is obviously noticeing the votes on him, that is where I called him a her, so I expect responses doubly quick with the deadline being in 3 days(10 if a replacement occurs)

[nonny]

I agree a confirmation would be a bad idea. I think he should post his picture, LG did it and didn't get mod killed so I don't think it counts as quoting a pm.

Falcone asked for a claim. But spacecase was -3 from lynch(e was the deadline default true) but normally a claim isn't asked for at that time.

Really this is another calim you can't prove in any manner, even if a partner speaks up it would just be scum.

unvote

not inclined to want him lynched at this moment.

[nonny]

RULES

8) Do not quote your role PM. You may, however, quote the photo that accompanies your role PM.

For Nonny.

Oh thanks....see so I think he should atleast post the picture.

[nonny]

Nonny, ThAdmiral, why wouldn't I ask for a claim when we were three days before the deadline and Spacecase was the main lynch candidate? He was effectively in as much danger as someone who's at L-1 in a non-deadline situation.

Falcone asked for a claim. But spacecase was -3 from lynch

(he was the deadline default true)

but normally a claim isn't asked for at that time.

Bolded to show I understand that part of it. Still the deadline might have been extended, but on think it over the ask for claim was right with the deadline.

And I don't like how y'all assume he's town just because he's a mason. Mason does not automatically mean townie unless both partners have the mod-confirmed clause in their PMs.

I'm not assuming he is town, but I'm not assuming he is scum either.

How does someone not know who their Mason partner is? I haven't heard of that, but as Space case really strike me as scummy I'm just wondering if anyone has heard of such a thing before.

never played with masons except in chat and those were day masons, so i'm not sure how it works.
Pretty sure the whole point of masons is to know your partner. Also, supposedly they are normally pro-town.

Ummm... I'm having troubles posting the picture currently... BUT its the teacher with the really long boobs from South Park. And I do not know who my partner is currently

First off, that picture makes no since to me but i can overlook that, at this point. Secondly no one asked if you knew your partner, and no one wanted to know who your partner was at this time. So saying that was pointless and/or a slip.

not enough to vote but

FoS and IGMEOY spacecase

faerielord: not sure if that counts as posting more.....

[nonny]

welcome forbidden light, you are already doing better than xyzzy

[nonny]

I have to find my "partner" during the night. Once i do find my fellow mason, i can talk to him or her during the night

anyone ever heard of a role like this? Or any speculation on wat the picture has to do with this?

[nonny]

welcome forbidden light, you are already doing better than xyzzy

That's probably because I'm actually a girl.

oh nice one!

Okay mariyta, i just havn't seen that much out of the ordinary sincei havn't played that much lol. Picture is still what is leaving a huge doubt in my mind about the role...I would say that she is looking for love or a friend bu that doens't fit I think.

[nonny]

yea, I really don't like the 'unable to quote the picture' bit myself.

That is you only comment you have, and the only part you don't like? Are you serious?

He basically doesn't know how to quote the picture, now that he has instructions that should be cleared up. I think the fact that he described the picture show that that was somewhat sincere.

I too think the role name is a big deal. Because when you google doucebag LG's picture is one of the first results, so I'm curious if that is the case here too, or if that was just a coincidence.

[nonny]

Okay uhm a little more coherantly now DBE. Sorry but that post makes next to no sense to me. Maybe I'm just in a dumb mood, but I really don't get what you are saying, from what i can make out of it it looks a little contradictory and then a little like just repeating what everyone has said.

[nonny]

nonny: Post 153: Solid post...except the part where you pull a Marayita and evade Mirth's question. It's not that hard to project what you might do if you know what the role is. I mean, I've never played in a game with a miller before this, and I already know I'd probably claim first post first day.

My opinion on that matter for now is the same. I can't honestly say if i'd go one way or the other. Just because you are more decisive doesn't mean I have that skill. I think thing through a lot and i'm still back on forth on the issue.


Nice posting and actually doing something when you say you will ^.^

[nonny]

Run-off voting. We all list who we're willing to vote for in order of preference. (But if we do this, we should *only* list the people we are willing to vote for and no one else. Don't need to include the "least suspicious" part of the list.)

right now i think this is a good idea.

[nonny]

Because I wasn't sure if ti was happening yet.

Right now: Spacecase, Darla, Faerielord. (not nessacirly in any order of who i'd vote first)

[nonny]

I agree it's not the best idea, but it's not the worst. Unless someone has a better one.

[nonny]

I don't quite get how the scoring works.

I, too, am going to remove spacecase for now from my list. Though I still think she needs to post.

[nonny]

vote darla

She disappeared again, with nothing adequate.

[nonny]

What about falcone's claim? Any more input then just a vanilla claim?

[nonny]

Or we wait till the deadline...either way it's a waiting game unless she decides to participate.

[nonny]

I like your bear mirth. I want to learn how to make those!

[nonny]

We don't need to distract the mod, post the pictures so darla will come and play with us properly!

[nonny]

Vote: farside22

We should have lynched her yesterday.

Did you post reasons for this before?


I'm going to have to look over my original list and revise it. I'd like to hear from Incognito, too.

same.


I'm assuming falcone found the other breast than....because that basically would confirm spacecase's claim to a point. (yes, yes they could still be scum together but still)

It's sad that I'm not to shocked about mirth being picked off, she was the most active the one questioning the most poeple.

[nonny]

Any one want to refresh my memory on this reasoning? Maybe I'm missing something...enlighten me.

[nonny]

hmm i'm going to have to review what is happening. While I think it's and interesting case I don't like how forbidden(and falcone) are condemning her on the spot without prompting any discussion. If day is our best asset against the scum why not provoke the use of it and not encourage poeple to bandwagon.

forgot this in previous post.

FoS Lord Gurgi

for blatant bandwagoning.

[nonny]

I would think a townie would ask that before voting...however it should be 6.

So you are voting her because she put together a weak case against you on what page 4-8? Uhm that sounds OMGUS to me. What actions of hers are causeing you to act, not her case on your actions. I believe that would be more helpful and effective.

[nonny]

"she did it so I can do it too!!!"

Uhm what? You say her case is baloney and is based on your case, what is your case since you showed it was based on her case. See the circle forming? Just because her case isn't based on your actions as you claim doesn't mean you can have the same type of case. If you are saying her poor case on your is making her scummy then why would you do the exact same thing and just judge her on the case? Am I making sense here? I understand you think her case on you is bad, but there is probably other reasons you find her scummy, such as her actions. That is stronger material, so I'm wondering if you used any of it. So far it seems like you bandwagoned and then later decided you should have reasons, trying to be a little different you picked that.

Also how can her case be about your case if intially it was all about your miller claim?

To a point yes, forbiddenlight. But like I said you are so difinative on farside being scum. Do you have no questions or things you want her to respond to. Do you have any inklings on pairings or maybe new hindsight with her interaction with mirth? I'm not trying to nesscarily help out farside, I want to hear from her too. But I just don't like it when "townies" are so difinative without reason, it's a pet peeve.

[nonny]

Sorry? Part of MY case is her reaction to my claim. To my knowledge nothing in her case is about my claim.

okay that part is poor reading on my part and puncutation on yours ^.~

But the rest still applies. You say her case is based on yours and yours is based on hers. See how that doesn't work? Actions speak louder I think, or at rest; votes, interaction, logic(failed or sucessful).

Fair enough forbidden.

Now we wait for other players(farside) to post.

[nonny]

I think the speed at which this wagon has formed is suspicious. Especially since there was hardly any/no case on farside yesterday - and now everybody supposedly agrees that she is definite scum.

One page after the new day is announced Farside is already at -3 (falcone should be asking for a claim any time now!), and forbiddan is warning people not to hammer. It seems like almost a foregone conclusion that she will be lynched.

Uhm that's what I said....


Uhm farside; I think we all know who uncle sam is. Google image search "douchebag" the picture LG posted is one of the first to come up. It's because of that I'm letting the WIFOM slide.

Forrbidden is still coming off as overbearing yet not it's interesting and bothersome.

Nice that falcone hasn't posted since starting the wagon.

[nonny]

Well, it does seem that way, true. I know I personally just push with certainty when I want to see a lynch. Recall yesterday my list was DBE and farside. Nothing has changed that. I still don't want to see a hammer til everyone has weighed in and done their thing.

Mostly this is what is bothersome. While it's helpful yes, to say no hammer till everyone has posted. It's also strong, forced. The "push with certainty" especailly is bothersome, how can you be certain? You say you list is the same as yesterday, meaning niether or the deaths have change anything in the game? You have no desire to read through with the known ailgnments of two players and see any intereations or anything. It just feels/sounds odd to me.

[nonny]

OKay that is an acceptable post. It's not your actions that are bugging me just your playstyle I guess. I'll move on from it for now.

[nonny]

See falcone's case does make sense when layed out like that. Still want to hear from the rest of the town, though.

Falcone I knew your case on farside wasn't new, it was LG that was bothersome in that aspect.

[nonny]

Why no comments on my request to be night killed?

I didn't see it, was with customers came back to finsh reading falcone's post and didn't refresh to no new posts were there.

Concerning my reasoning, point #3 was not OMGUS, she put me on her LoS not because I was being scummy but because I suspected her and wasn't giving much to support it, and so she did the same and put me on her list with basically OMGUS reasoning.

huh? that makes not a lick of sense. Reword please! Right now it reads as 1.) YOu are place on farside's LoS because "I was being scummy but because I suspected her and wasn't giving much to support it," 2.) She does the same thing as herself as an OMGUS and you are on her list.......0.o huh?

You request to be killed is flat out bad. If you are so sure farside is scum why would you rather be the lynch then her? Or are you trying to see if there is a vig or otherwise out there? Either way it's pointless, stupid, and bad play. Nor does it show you as being town which i think is what you intended it to appear as.

[nonny]

Which i see as somewhat a silly request still. And it still doesn't show in a good light in my eyes. Because no only are you trying to see if there is a vig or otherwise, you are asking them to kill you. If you are protown you wouldn't due such a thing i think. Also, if there is a vig and they are one shot then you shouldn't ask them to waste it on you.

[nonny]

LG...she already stated that she knows mirth can't answer. I do that too, type up everthing and don't edit things out since they are valid even if sometimes they are covered or uncoverable.

While I agree with falcone on farside, I don't agree on LG. Asking the vig to do that is silly. I'd rather, if there is a vig, they do what ever they feel is right. If it's one shot why would you have them use it on LG if you feel he is that scummy then lynch him don't leave it up to that and rob town of thier only night kill power.

[nonny]

I don't need a prod, I have been here not been able to read much of the recent stuff and I'm posting this from my phone, but I have been her and maybe not posted in two days. That doesn't need a prod.... I find it silly to request one for that short of a time frame too

[nonny]

Huh, guess it was tuesday. Well i have been following along and was going to post after the big case against admiral that I found him scummy day one. But then decided I didn't need to post that and instead I should just review my case on him....and then got busy

[nonny]

I am working on a catch uip post, but school just started today so i'll get it done today or tomorrow. Sorry for slacking.

[nonny]

That's not true: look at rosie o'donnel.

Still looking things over, as i said i'm suddenly busy. Will get full post tonight or tomorrow still.

Also note: don't like how LG is just ageeing with everyone and seemingly joking around. Hasn't posted any meat for himself only agreed so far from what i see.

[nonny]

Okay didn't have as much time as I thought for a big re-read with my car breaking. So I will breifly summerize that while I agree with the wagon on thadmiral(i posted some stuff against him last game day) I am more concerned about how quickly the wagon picked up momentum.

Will explain futher if needed.

[nonny]

So...i guess that confirms spacecase's claim but not the ailgnment.

Also, good to know we have a vig, nk, or maybe bus driver type role. Other than that I need a re-read before I can assess the new information. Am suspicous of those on the bandwagon the other day.....and how quickly it got off the ground.

[nonny]

Wow.....I hate that!!! "I'm glad Mariyta died too as she was next on my suspicions list " hindsight is 20-20 eh? IIRC you never mentioned suspicions on mariyta so really it looks like you are just trying to make yourself look good. Which anyone would do after leading that bandwagon yesterday.

As I said I need a re-read though. But I find that comment very suspicous.

[nonny]

I'm the right boob, and I'm looking for the left one. At night, I can target another player, and if I find the left boob, we become masons. Before anyone asks,

alignment is not mod-confirmed,

but given the flavor and the fact Spacecase claimed my exact role, I think the chance he's scum is extremely small.

Sorry you are far from confirmed in my book.

Also, forbiddenlight is right. Ussually when you are wrong you atleast re-assess your suspcisions of the person you are going after.

Another thing, while I see the point in looking at mariyta's actions and seeing her interaction with players I don't quite see how a PBP review is nessacary. It seems a little like filler to me, the second half is interesting but the first is pointless IMHO.

[nonny]

nonny: I don't really see much mentioning of Mariyta from nonny during Day 1. She mentions that she agrees with a Mirth-post that mentions she's happy with her Mariyta-vote. She also mentions that Mariyta's play seems atypical from what she's used to from a previous game but at the end of this post she only FoS's Spacecase (me) and DBE. nonny, why no Mariyta votes or FoS's despite mentioning her play seems off and agreeing with Mirth's thoughts on Mariyta? Also gives me silly flak for mentioning that I was happy with Mariyta's death. Silly, nonny. Neutral leaning scummy.

You mean this? Uhm the middle part is confusing if she is talking about what I or mirth said. Because I never voted mariyta I believe. I actually said that she was ussually a lurker, since I was in another game with her at the time(it is on-going but i got killed so yeah) so I knew she was somewhat of a lurker, I didn't write it off I guess it didn't bug me as much because I had what I felt were bigger fish to fry.

bus driver type role

How do you figure that?

Well now that faerielord came forward I don't figure that. I just didn't want to limit possblities, also ms crabtree sprang to mind but I doubt we would have two south park women. Was mostly random speculation.

Right now no comment on the faerielord claim, seems believable.

[nonny]

EBWOP: even though it's ongoing i think i can mention her and I were both town in that game where she had the same post style. Although it did pick up by day three.

[nonny]

Huh I guess I did really think it through before stating it....guess two kills doesn't make sense.

No I havn't done that analysis yet. The reasons I found you scummy so far is that wagon and how quickly it started and how quickly you are just moving down your list. Also, the attempt to show yourself as confirmed is weird to me.

Whether or not she posted more it still would seem trivial and a little useless.

[nonny]

.....hmm okay in hindsight she was acting the same in not posting much. But the part where she was seemingly giving up was different than the other game i was in with her.

[nonny]

Wow farside22 claim already.

And what FaerieLord is saying isn't WIFOM at all; it's logic. He didn't have to come forward and claim nor did he have to ask

us

what he should be doing tonight with his kill. I believe the claim.

To quote ThAdmiral. I will claim when I want claim nazi.

And like ThAdmiral you'll soon be drowning on cheese puffs while I sing

Genie in a Bottle

.

Lord Gurgi, Faerie Lord, and I all agree to mass claim. Can someone else vote mass claim so we can get a majority agreement already?

Wow, i'm so shocked all the poeple that already claimed are for a mass claim. Also, I have nothing against it at this point.

*sorry i fell behind in the game again >.<*

Also, why are you so proud that you got the admiral lynched? That seems almost like gloating. You are so die hard and aren't even considering that you may be wrong and blindly pursueing another townie. Your playstlye is very odd, and rubs me completly the wrong way.

mod votecount please

VOTE COUNT

Farside - 2 - Lord gurgi, Forbiddanlight

Not voting:
farside22
forbiddanlight replaces xyzzy
FaerieLord
Incognito
nonny
Vivian Darkblaam

With 7 alive, 4 to lynch!

[nonny]

True.

Though, I'd actually like to see that promised wagon analysis from nonny too before ending the day.

This will occur. Am planning on doing it tonight after work and/or tomorrow between classes. Either way will be posted by tomorrow evening at the latest.

[nonny]

Hmm never even heard of a jester....Will have to look that up.

Got loaded down will stuff but post about the bandwagon will still come tonight!

In the meantime since I was next on the list. I <3 Vagina....aka vanilla vagina.

[nonny]

nonny, why did you not bother to do or even suggest to do a wagon analysis type of thing after DBE's lynch? Also, why did you not give farside22 the same level of flak that you gave me for pursuing suspects? farside22 came down pretty hard on DBE and then followed up her DBE attack the day after with more attacks this time on Lord Gurgi, but you didn't really have much to say about that. Compare that to your reaction to me where I attacked ThAdmiral on Day 2 and then followed up my ThAdmiral attacks today with an attack on farside22 where you pretty much told me that I should "consider that I may be wrong and blindly pursuing another townie".

Because I was activeduring that list and saw it happen. This last lynch I had some problems getting on line to check on things. Also DBE lynch took the full autodeadline time, where as admiral lynch was much quicker and seemingly came from no where. The DBE lynch some poeple had been suspecting her for quite some time and then she became the deadline lynch.

Really I'm not getting much out of re-reading the bandwagon. It just sprang up from no where and easily picked up momentum. Similar to how the farside wagon started earlier. Though I still don't understand you incognito, and how you can be so very wrong on the admiral but still feel confidant on farside, I mean sure it can happen if you are looked for indepeant scum and not partners, but does nothing make you readjust your though proccess? This isn't nessaciraly scummy, just very odd and making me look closer at you.

[nonny]

Wow, so I guess you were right one out of two times. So for now I remove my previous suspicion and resistants.....Will post more later(sneaking this at work)

[nonny]

ThAdmiral: Wrong
Farside: Right
---------------------
1:2 right

That is what it is in reference to.

[nonny]

Oh that. Initially meant you, incognito. Lord Gurgi has been more of a sheep in my book, where as you seem to be the ringleader(or sheep dog for the analogy i guess)

[nonny]

Depends on the theme, I perfer town with a power role or scum. I like to know what is going on. Being lost is annoying to me.

Anyways, We have 5 poeple alive. 2 scum dead. Most likely one scum left. Odds are in our favor. So we aren't even in lynch or lose yet which is very good. Hmmmm I would like to see if everyone wants to do a scumlist?

[nonny]

I just want a clear concise list so that it's all in the same area and easy to look at together.

Uhm, I don't see why you need a link to such a game since I hate meta and find it pointless. All finished games I don't have a good vanilla track record since in mature mafia I was lynched and scum won(I pegged a scum though). Then mental war mafia I was night killed and scum won. Those are the only ones off the top of my head that I was vanilla in recently. My wiki page has a complete list of my games though.

[nonny]

Hmmmm I would like to see if everyone wants to do a scumlist?

Not that I'm trying to completely blow this off (I should be presenting my suspicions in a logical format once life stops being so complicated), but isn't this a situation where you might as well go first?

I don't mind going first. I just need to reread some parts and collect my thoughts. Didn't mean for it to look hypocritical or anything.....

[nonny]

nonny, I'll check out your wiki then. I happen to find meta extremely useful as there have been a number of games I've played in where it's been the difference between a correct lynch and a mislynch with a number of players I've played with.

That's fine, but you'll find I play fairly consistantly......I always get votes for being "too town" no matter what side I'm on.

LG: I sort understand that but it always bugs me when poeple announce they are waiting for someone else to post.

Will have my scumlist up tonight(i think....no i should have it then...)

[nonny]

Right now my list is:

Forbiddan-- hard to read, likes to answer for incognito. xxyzz was a bad lurker, some what suspicious. Has had vote on every lynch. Leaning Scum
LG-- miller claim, been on all bandwagons(except DBE but announced he would hammer) changed quickly from farside to admiral. Easily persuaded? Neutral Leaning Scum
Viv--Post seem like she is trying extra hard to be nice and not step on toes. nuetral
Incog-started admiral wagon, confirmed mason via falcone not confirmed town, wants everyone active. Good logic in posts. Leaning Town

(yes I know logically there is only what one maybe two scum left?)

Okay that is not technically a flat out LoS but I wanted some reasoning posted as well.

And you asked my opinion on farside right? Well at the time of the wagon I didn't nesscarily have one. I wasn't against her lynch persay, more against the speed at which the bandwagon was going. I should have taken more time to read through and get a grounded opinion on her. (but that was a really busy time for me since school just started and my car broke....3 times. Not trying to make excuses just telling you how it is)

[nonny]

There was only one instance looking back that you directly answered for incog. But that isn't what makes you scummy. It was more your budding with incog, almost as soon as she replaced you were buddy-buddy which I found odd from the begining.

Being on every bandwagon is scummy...I should have to explain that one. You are the only one alive that has been on every bandwagon. Meaning that either you always found the lynchee scummy, or you just wanted a lynch to occur. Most likely the later based on statistics. Look at the other players alive. LG has been on 2/3, I have been on 1/3, incog 2/3, viv 1/3. Being on all the lynchs is odd to me and stands out as inherently scummy. Though you havn't started any of the lynches, you have pushed for most of them, most times just by repeating other players logic(mostly incog's) That is the main reason I think you are scum(perhaps the last one)

[nonny]

Day three one. The day two one I was going to look at her then the admiral thing started. I knew I had already had some suspicion on admiral so I wanted to look that back over but really didn't find much. THought to sudden pace of the wagon was odd. Then it was over.

As I said your play style is hardheaded and that always bugs me. I took a closer look at your posting though and it is all very logical and striaght forward. So I believe that is just your personality. Putting that aside you have been playing very pro-town from what I can tell. Normally don't see scum ask proactivly for as many prods as well (see mature mafia, most scum didn't ask for prods. Only the townies did in majority. I as townie actually took it upon myself to do the prods...it was a self modded game) But you interactions and arguments also strike me as town upon closer looks.

[nonny]

I never said you weren't using your brain, I was just saying you were following along an aweful lot.

It's not misrepresentation, those numbers are true. I know there are circumstances around them. And I have yet to vote you for any of this because right now it's just quick observations. Havn't been able to do a full read through.

You are being very defensive though.

Why do you feel the need to point out what incog was saying? Could you have just simply said I was suspect in your book? Even if that is your playstyle(which as said tons don't like meta) you are awefully attached to certain players. Either it's calculated or subconsciously.

[nonny]

had a feeling you were going to say that. Once you said you wanted to wait for my list, I knew that is what you were going to come back with. Expect more detail into why you think this way as soon as you return from where ever you are going/went.

Well, if it's subconscious scum, one would think there would be more buddying with farside and Mariyta. If it's calculated, I'd probably be mildly less blatent.

True, but by calculated I meant picking and choosing whom you say as best to tag along with. Ussually if you agree with someone numerous times they write you off as scum.

Like I said I do need to do a full re-read these were just preliminary since poeple were waiting on me. I only have one class tomorrow and no car since it's in the shop so I should have plenty of time to do this reread and be more thorough.

[nonny]

Not trying to be a flake, boss man messed up my schedule so ugad to work yesterday. But now I have Sunday off expect my review then, not making empty promises. *posted from phone ignore spelling errors please*

[nonny]

I'm doing my re-read now at work so it may take a while. (luckily myboss isn't working so i won't get in trouble) I'm just going to start at day two because i pretty much remember day one..

[nonny]

forbidden can you say who the quotes are from please? Even if they are all the same person...just like to know which person forsure.

LG: and....?

[nonny]

Haha, not even you can escape META!!!! (Btw, was she town or scum there?)

mentioned later when the other game ended she was town.


I gues I could have read it before asking whom it was supposed to be....I'm upt to pae 25...should have post done soon.

[nonny]

LG: and....?

The point is, that by day two, and certainly day three, you ought to be voting for

someone

. Unless you can't dredge up some reasonable qualification for fabricated results.

Right, the wagons moved faster than I was able to read the arguments for an against. I wasn't going to vote for the sake of voting.

[nonny]

That is what I just said. Hence I have to do a re-read. I had been very busy. Day Two started a month ago...normally days last much longer. We(you really since aparantly i did nothing) have moved very fast. And as I've said I have had a rather busy month, but here I am now devoting time to catching up. Still working my way through that analysis of mine(just got off work so it should be faster now)

[nonny]

LOL!!!!!!

you

lynched scum?

You

also lynched a townie. Actually what you actually did was follow along and let others pick whom to lynch. If you were so sure about farside then why were you on the admiral wagon? Nice job trying to make yourself look better and important for being on the bandwagon.

If you keep wanting to vote so bad at this point it will end up on you.

[nonny]

i kept a promise!!! Kay this is day2 till nowish.

This wasn't precisely unexpected. What I am shocked at is she risked a power role this way.

So you think mirth should have played differently to protect her power role? It wasn't obvious she had a role i think just that she was active and most likely protown.

I do, however, beg no one lays the hammer down anytime soon because the day is our best weapon against the scum.

If you were so worried about a premptive hammer why did you place a vote on farside in the first place? i did already ask this but the answer wasn't stasifactory at all. (you just pointed out that you asked poeple not to hammer....which is not really town to me.)

Why no comments on my request to be night killed?

this still boggles me. Also, at that point it was completly odd. Since there is no known vig, if you truly are protown your wouldn't sacrfice your self like that and create even more WIFOM over your claim....odd, very odd.

What I am saying Nonny, is that my WIFOM is best resolved with a night kill. Not by wasting a lynch.

besides the fact that the vig is no dead this is still silly. Why waste a ig on you? Just to end WIFOM. Vig is something scum have no say in....so why waste something like that. Lynch is something scum and townies decide. Most information comes from it and it's not a fully protown thing...

Now understand the admiral wagon....talk about bad play just from his "fixed" defense. But his longer defense is actually okay, the back an forth doesn't seem to accomplish much...just seeminly he said that she said that he said.

Why is forbideen light ripping apart theadmiral's defense, when it was orginally a ripping apart of incognito's post. I would think you should have incog reply first..

Nonny is a horrible lurker.....:p

You make a case! Just because I'm on the chopping block it doesn't mean the responsibility for finding scummy people lies on my head.

See that's another thing about this game - everybody is just sitting around waiting for someone else to do all the work.

You know what, I will make a case. I'll get back to you.

I agree fully with this, and thus makes me find LG more suspicious for saying

So then make a good case and I can personally guarantee I'll look at it. I am on your wagon because of your responses, more than the case. The second any suspicion went your way you blew up into OMGUS, deflection, and strawman.

Considering he had made no cases, and done almost nothing for himself.

LG(post 604) uhm only one person disregarded you as town based on your claim and you helped lynch him. Why so adamanet to not have poeply think you town? Also, I wouldn't call waiting half a page "holding off" on a vote....

We really have to stop curtailing discussion with arbitrary hammers.

just this line alone makes vivian look more town to me...also her posting in general is fairly good...

Vivian: Not all of my suspicions are based solely in evidence like some other people. I just don't play that way. And I don't know about you, but when I sleep on something my thoughts will change or become more confirmed.

why not? With out evidence you have nothing but gut.

Re-reading just makes me feel stupid. Farside was obviously scum and horrible at hiding it. Hindsight is 20/20 but this is see through....ugh now i honestly am mad at myself for not being more active..>.<

Incog: COnfirmed Mason, not confirmed town
LG: miller claim
Nonny: vanilla
Vivian: vanilla
Forbiddan: vanilla

Just from those claims i'm leaning LG as the last scum.

o I'm kinda curious why there would be a miller and no cop. Someone lied during the massclaim, and that's not a good idea since essentially a cop could lock the game at this point with 2 innocent reads.

IIRC mirth was the cop?

forbiddan gets a little defensive, and then cools off a lot at the end of page 31. Seems like how town would act. I'm familiar with that feeling of frustration at least...

I really couldn't be bothered to make the nonny case until I see some others.

baaah, stop being a sheep and do your own work first!

After reading through that, the only person I can see being scum is LG. Everyone else is seemingly acting town, and the main problems i originally was suspicious of were just playstyle, when seen one by one they are bothersome but seeing them for multiple pages made them more....personality then alignment.

[nonny]

oh right was the doc...i was mistaken.

The only reason I'm not voting LG is WIFOM and it is bugging me beyond belief....since now that it's pointed out there may not be a cop. Also, him lynching farside consistantly seems off for him to be scum. Unless it was strategy...which it's quite good strategy.....but yeah that is all WIFOM.

I want to hear an actaul case from LG for once, I hate that he feels it's okay to just let everyone else post first.

[nonny]

of course they are all claims that is a silly fix.

If you aren't scum then I don't know, I'm very lost no matter how many times I read over I'm in the dark...

You asking admiral to specfically find someone else fo town to focus on was silly, and scummy. I'm pretty sure as soon as he did poeple would just add it to his list of scummy behavior by trying to pull a suspect out of no where.

You can play by gut all you want it won't get you very far. Even players that are known for thier guts like Pooky or Glork lets say go back and find evidence to support it. The whole point of this game is to convince poeple of what you think is fact, you can't do that by saying "i have this feeling....trust me" It doesn't work, and it's horrible anti-town to just go off gut in my opinion, because when you are wrong you just say...oops my scumdar is off today not my fault!
Just quick reply, have to submit befor boss man sees i'm on this site....will add more later as needed.

[nonny]

nonny, what is it about Vivian's single line that you mentioned in 816 that makes you think Vivian is town?

That was just the only line i quoted. Her whole post from that reaks of town. Also her posting has been consistantly town. Only thing I don't like about her posting is it seems overly trying to please which is either just personality, or she really wants every one to like her so she won't be seen as scum.....havn't decided which is more likely.

[nonny]

Nonny, you are STRAWMANNING me, I told him I would look at a case that he made, when you are portraying me as demanding that he tell us who else to go after.

in no way did I say that. Actually read my posts before just assuming that I misinterpreted you.

I already stated they were all claims.....you making each one say claim is a bit dramatic and useless.

[nonny]

You use the arguement that you only play by gut and shouldn't be lynched for not having evidence or cases. I never siad I shouldn't be lynched for being "too town" I just said I have been accused of it from multiple games and alignments.

May I ask why you are setting up lynches beyond this one, LG? Is it possibly because you know the alignments of those two and they aren't precisely scum? If you feel you are wrong about nonny, or even think it's possible, it's probably a good idea to rethink the case. If you are sure of nonny, then why set up Viv's lynch? This is scummy...

I find that intersting too. I assumed with 5 poeple 2 scum dead that we would be in lylo. We mislynch we lose cause we would have 4 townies, one night kill, 2 alive one scum. Do you know for some reason why a night kill wouldn't happen? Because if we lynch right the game should be over. I can't see 4 scum in a 12 player game.

*watching the LG-Nonny argument escalate with bag of popcorn* (seriously, I'm getting good reads off of this from both sides, keep it up)

I bet...

@Nonny: I have a talent for appearing pro-town (it probably has more to do with my writing style than anything else). I don't think that means I take pleasing positions; I just think that I can make my positions pleasing.

fair enough.

Right LG, I never said you demanded it I said you requested it and only from him. That behavior is scummy, and if he had made a case most of the town would say "nice try at misdirection" So the fact that you asked for that is scummy. Also, you made it orginally sound like "you are scum and dead no matter what, but you can try and distract us with someone else if you like" (notice i say that it sounded like, as in my opinion on what was said, as in I'm not misrepresenting you purposfullly or willfully saying this is exactly what you said)

I hate when poeple are like " you are saying i said x, and I said yx so you must be scum!" paraphrasing and personal perspectives have a lot to do with this game, I did not alter what I saw as your orginal intent of the post, but you changed what I noticed it looking like. There is a difference between demand and ask.

This looks like her setting up a hole for her to think Viv is scum tomorrow, should I be lynched.

Or it's my honest opinion that I don't know which is the case. Nice way to twist everything to have me appear calculating. Also as I already stated, if we lynch you and you aren't scum we lose. If we lynch you and you are scum we win. If by chance there are two scum left, we lose if you are town, and we get a 3 person end game if you are scum. Sorry but I won't take the chance of not knowing with out a doubt you are scum, hence I'm still havn't voted.

[nonny]

Oh yeah my math was off, oops was thinking of the wrong game. Okay will reply more later internet is down at work and I'm just checking up on game via phone. Even if we aren't lylo I'm not voting yet because. I don't vote till I'm sure.

[nonny]

Uhm if someone is willing to ask to be lynched then they aren't protown and I would ask them to reconsider. Ugh reading on phone fails, will catch up better when I get off work in under an hour

[nonny]

Thing is nonny, you're brining in meta either way.

I didn't use any meta....where are you seeing this "meta"?

When it starts to get this important not to screw up, I generally try to be right the first time.

QFT

Yeah. Like I said, it's hard convincing everyone else that two people who always play townie are scum. Whereas I'm the claimed miller and I play aggressive gut, it seems stacked against me. If I am lynched, I just hope you'll review what I've said and think about it. Even if I'm not, I would appreciate the motion.

You are the only one stacking the cards against you. I wouldn't call you agressive at all more hard headed and sheep like, when you aren't being a sheep you stick your foot in your mouth. If you are so worried about being lynched than don't play so anti-town. Whether or not someone "plays townie" there are ways to tell and show poeple they are scum. I know the difference in my own subconscious play style and I can see difference in others, usually. If someone is scum no matter how town they play there are clues like rushing a hammer, or false claims or what ever number of basic tells. So really, this is just an appeal to emotion and a child like one at that. Sounds like you are saying "be nice or I won't play any more because you aren't being fair!"

[nonny]

I never siad I shouldn't be lynched for being "too town" I just said I have been accused of it from multiple games and alignments.

You mean this? uhm I don't consider that meta. I consider that a statement of truth. I have been accused of it. Off the top of my head by tally in mature mafia and we were both town. Meta is my playstyle in past games to see if I'm using it here and if you can learn from my past behavior and behavior in this game. I was merely pointing out it has happened, I didn't say anything should be decided one way or the other on it. I guess technically it can be used as meta but wasn't intended that way.

[nonny]

Here I thought referencing past games as indication

of alignment in

current play was meta. Am I wrong?

bold makes it right as far as I know.

[nonny]

i think they are different...which is why i fixed it. But I think it something that most poeple have different takes on *shrug*

incognito hasn't posted in a while, I wonder what her take is on things (whenever this game ends i'm gonna miss just referencing everyone as she)

[nonny]

oh sorry incog, you posted while I was working on my post previously so I didn't refresh and see it.

I love exercise....it's addicting.

[nonny]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:33 Post subject: 848
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:41 Post subject: 849

Looks more like 8 minutes to me...

[nonny]

PostPosted: September 16 - 7:33 PM Post subject: 848
PostPosted: September 16 - 9:04 PM Post subject: 855

That's what she quoted and referenced.

I know that I didn't say she hadn't posted an hour and half after she had. My point was that I posted 8 mins after her and then we were on the next page so I never saw her post.

This is such a petty thing to argue over....

[nonny]

I didn't see any misunderstanding.....incog pointed out she posted, i apologized for missing it.

Exercise is good. And pain is rather common for women.

Just as an aside in slight vulgarity, I never understood why someone that has a low pain tolerance or is overall weak is called a pussy, when generally we have a MUCH higher pain tolerance than men.

hahaha I totally agree!!!

[nonny]

Exercise is good. And pain is rather common for women.

Just as an aside in slight vulgarity, I never understood why someone that has a low pain tolerance or is overall weak is called a pussy, when generally we have a MUCH higher pain tolerance than men.

At risk of egotism, I would venture that I have a higher level of pain tolerance than you.

deliver a child than we'll talk oh wait I havn't done that.....I know I have a higher pain threshold than most males because my tattoo artist told me lol.

[nonny]

I feel almost certain gurgi is scum upon my review and his recent actions. But I want to review vivan now for myself.

also....oooh masochism!! I'm a sadist personally, but I don't mind pain....can tell by my amount of tattoos.

[nonny]

Forbiddenlight is not on my list at this time.

[nonny]

am still reviewing vivan but I have two papers to write first.

also winslow should have that hat on in the comic lol

[nonny]

So far the games I have played here, millers do know they are millers. However I just don't get why LG claimed so early. There was no need or pressure for such a claim

I'm just curious can you show me where the discusion on this was? I think I can think of the reason why claiming this early is good. I just wonder what was said exactly on this.

It seemed like there was likes of back and forth on the issue. Some people talk about when during the day to claim and others say it sets up for scum claiming it to save themselves.
However with the poster of uncle sam I feel like that would be something a person would see if they were recruiter. You know the army poster that says Uncle Sam wants you

Farside was the first one to be really skeptical of the claim, and question it. Mirth asked for a counter claim which i saw as a joke, vivan asked if millers even knew they were millers.

I certainly hope so Falcone, I'm suspicious of anyone who would ignore my claim, Why Faerie Lord though?

Why? I feel the best thing to do with a miller claim is ignore it, it's all WIFOM. Why did you feel it so special that everyone must acknowledge it? You did that same thing with the request to be vig'd. You want everyone to know it. So either you just like the attention, or you think these actions make you look pro-town and want every one to comment on it and hopefully remember it.

Vote: Farside22 Why are you man-hating so much? You have a kid!

So his voting of farside started with a seemingly random joke vote? And he just kept on it because she didn't believe his claim and almost nothing else. When day 2 came we was back on like fire IIRC after falcone had already revoted per his reasons day1, LG mimic'd this but had no real strong reasons. Falcone had a whole case he brought back, LG even said "wow i agree fully with his case, it's better than mine"(paraphrasing, to lazy to look up direct quote) So I don't think LG gets any credit for farside being lynched as scum. I see it as perhaps distancing, busing, and planned. I now have no doubt in my mind.

vote Lord Guirgi

I believe he is now at L-1

[nonny]

I'd still like nonny to comment on Vivian as well

I am working on this, I just had some free time after you posted the mariyta part found it interseting wanted to review what happened during the claim more. Once I get free time(most likely tomorrow mid morning after class) I will review vivian.

[nonny]

I'd like more from Vivian, and I'd still like nonny to comment on Vivian as well

before anyone even thinks about hammering LG

. I think Vivian was going to go more in-depth with stuff too, so I'd like to see that as well.

......IGMEOY

that defeatist attitude makes me worried...hope we were right. *waits for mod to announce*

[nonny]

That was a very stupid thing to do.....some mods would count it regardless of that stipulation.

[nonny]

But yeah, what do we do now? We have to lynch someone.

I don't think we are currently under a deadline. What's your rush?

Also, even though that gambit does make me suspect you a little less you are still a sheep.

Will still be reviewing viv tomorrow after class.

unvote

just in case. Also, that gambit proved to me I'm not as sure as I thought I was.

I know it was a gambit incog, you pming ek makes it a bit less stupid I suppose.

[nonny]

Unlike you, some of us like to research things and find out possible angles and you know evidence. We can't all just blindly point fingers and hope for the best based on gut. So it's not a stalemate, it's an information gathering time *nods*

I agree forbiddan, but I want more time to review in case someone wants to drop the hammer for real.

[nonny]

It wasn't purposefully insulting, just stating how we have differing methods than you, you self proclaim to only use gut.

[nonny]

why? reasoning?

Will review Vivan tonight and/or tomorrow.

[nonny]

nonny, you got anything for us yet?

No, but i'm taking tomorrow off work as a sick day, so I will have time then.

[nonny]

nonny, you got anything for us yet?

No, but i'm taking tomorrow off work as a sick day, so I will have time then.

You're really sick?

Yes....I keep coughing my way through sales. It sucks >.< But yeah like i said I will do my review tomorrow( after my doc appt. )

[nonny]

The day is still young.....just kidding. I'm going over things now. Had to do homework first.

[nonny]

Hate doing these player only post by post analysis, but didn't have time to read whole game.

Post numbers are based off only viewing viv's posts.

First few posts are a little odd. What strikes me most is her mention of a compromised lynch that DBE insinuated. She voted based on it. She didn't mention anything with LG just recently tried a compromised lynch with his list of who suspects whom.

I think it is pretty obvious that you're backpedaling (one word, one "d"), but I usually think backpaddling hard enough to rock the boat is not something scum often do. Farsidescum would have backed entirely off of DBE when challenged by Falcone. Arguing the point to a nub is something people do when they've actually made up their minds about something, not when they're pretending to have.

This seems almost like a pat on the back post since we now know farside is scum.

Fair enough. I overreacted.

I don't see why this is needed, she didn't over react. All that was done was ask for an explaination of why admiral overrates meta but was still useing it. He replied, and we get this. Really seems..like an apology and out of place.

All of Falcone's recently posted suspicions hinge around the target not participating to the fullest. Why no Mariyta?

Points out mariytascum lurking.

Both known scum end up in her scum list. Don't read it as spacing from them. Though she ends up voting faerielord for his lack of content. When she had two suspects based on thier content. THis seems like an arbritrary way to vote. What made him the one to vote for? Nothing in the posts says she sees him as more scummy...odd

I think there already is pressure on some of the others. I felt like FL was a new discovery that required action so as to have the most info possible going into deadline.

does one vote really help with pressure? Why not on the person you felt needed to be replaced? I don't have the context to know who was suspicious of whom in this analysis style, but it seems like a weird way to put it.

mirth accuses her of budding up over the spacecase claim. Viv insinuates that there may not be a picture to post baed on "independant research" uhm what?

Falcone's case on Farside is fairly solid but also fairly old. There doesn't seem to be anything from the end of D1 (though there's almost certainly material to work with) Why the sojurn to DBE before turning back to Farside today?

On the other hand, if Farside is scum, Admiral's ridiculously blatant defense of her should be underlined in red ink.

She is setting admiral up it feels like, a blant defense does not spell scum in a game where the players are expierenced. In a newbie game I can see this logic, but not here. Also, what does the case being old have to do with it, if you say it's good than it's good.

it's the only experience I've had with Admiral, but it will definitely flavor the way I treat the wagon that's cropped up. (Even if you dislike meta, it's still a fantastic game. It has several big names when they were just starting out, MOS playing the best game of his life, and a 45 page long D1 with no fewer than 4 L-1 wagons)

So she favors the wagon, without really saying much about it? Never actually votes.

[quote-"post 19"]farside getting a chance to post before being lynched. Suspects should always be given every opportunity to talk. If they're town/scum, the truths/lies they tell might help later. More specifically, what caused LG to drop his vote between 596 and 604?

Vivian Darkblaam: NabNab kept on mentioning that "clock is ticking" stuff with respect to Mariyta throughout Day 1. He-she questioned Falcone about an opinions post that failed to include Mariyta also. I never saw any indication from this Russian cross-dresser of an FoS or vote in her direction though. Then again, he-she never did much FoS-ing or voting throughout Day 1 or Day 2. He-she directly opposed condorcet so he-she never provided a list to summarize his-her feelings. He-she also had negative comments about my predecessor's claim (mentioning it sounds cult-ish) but since I've replaced, he-she hasn't really given me much flak or questioned me further about it. Hmm. His-her early FoS of Falcone also seemed really off (an FoS for having a vollkan-like quality?).

Is this a case? Because only 3/7 of it have to do with the seemingly objective heading its posted under(This account is 100% woman by the way; no need to go all PC "they" alternative on me)

I'm gonna have to think about the relationship between the farside and admiral wagons yesterday. They way they competed screams deflection from farside, especially Incognito's kitchen sink-included case, but one of the main architechts of Admiral's lynch is now a confirmed townie and the other voted farside right out of the gate today, so I don't know that to think. [/quote] She never comments on her thoughts on farside. Only the wagon, and wanting her to post. Sort of says she is inevitably the lynch, a stance I can see a partner taking.

tend to extend the benefit of the doubt to poor or infrequent players (try reading the section midway through 458 where I coin the term "Villiage Idiot") more than most and sometimes more than I should. My main goal in saying that the "clock is ticking" to Mari was to get her to say something of significance. I didn't want to should "lurker!" because that probably would not have promoted participation. When Mari did produce the post you disected, I saw that she was pretty much lost at sea when it came to analysis. Lots of non-sequiters and vague generalizations. Now we can see that this was just her attempt at being scummy, but at the time it kind of just made me sigh.

her feelings on maryita. How is "the clock is ticking" more conduesive to her posting and less threatening than "lurker!"?

One thing that should have been bothering me more if I had been paying attention. Why in holy hell did farside hammer herself? There would be no point in keeping up the jester facade. I can think of 4 explanations.
-She had just given up
-

There was an outstanding question she'd rather not answer/a general fear of exposing her scumbuddy through defense
-She was afraid her buddy would expose themselves (further) in a doomed (chainsaw?) defense.

-Uber-WIFOM anticipation of posts like this

This post seems...subjective and perhaps purposfully distracting? Especailly the bolded part. Was any one activally defending her? I was saying the lynch was fast, incog wanted discussion before she most likly self hammered. If anything you set her up to self hammer with the l-1 vote. So are you trying to set some one up, or generally curious. Hard to tell.

In regards to that appraisal, I was also very much wrong on giving farside and mariyta passes, and that post in particular will probably come back to bite me if anybody ever gets around to the PBPA's they've been talking about. Just because I take my time to make my decisions and value the discussion of the town over my own gut doesn't mean I don't take stands.

So she is aware of the fact she didn't take stances on them. She never mentioned her gut on them, only once asked that farside be allowed to post before her getting lynched, that was day three. So is this covering her own butt....feels like it.

I could totally see why farside would give up on a hopeless situation like the one she was in.

so she is no longer trying to help her partner, she has just given up? Then why point out the other "possiblities" earlier?

Additionally, Mariyta was the only one to make an appeal to newbishness with her string of "but I don't want to get yelled at posts". The post that you refrence as my vote was made far before I could have formed an opinion on whether or not Darla should be considered a newb

But mariyta isn't a newb, so why excuse her based on that? She has been playing for quite some time.

I felt it was more important to shine some light on those I saw as lurkers than to wagon a person I wasn't confident about. Instead of following, I scumhunted

You didn't really scum hunt, you just placed a vote on a new person that no one was voting....this isn't scumhunting. you didn't even really follow it up later.

Viv goes back and forth. She defends her actions for not voting farside saying she was suspicous but not enough to add another vote. Then defends saying no she wasn't trying to push a lynch on space case. This seems....very off. Why would you in one swoop be seemingly apologizing for not voting farside, then in the other not wanting a lynch. Sure they are different poeple, and that is the exact point. You want us to think you were against farside when you never voiced an opinion as such, but don't want incog to think you were/are against her/her predacessor.

I was actually very angry that D2 ended when it did. I was just starting to get into a discourse on ThAdmiral when the hammer fell. Things defintiely would have been different if I hadn't been V/LA when that whole thing sprang up

pointless thing to say, since she basically said she was leaning toward an admiral lynch, atleast half way stated that. So far she is good talking about actions but doesn't nail down any opinions on the actual players. I very keen way for scum to play.

I was operating under the premise that farside was pulling a desprate gambit with her jester claim (she was), and that while she would vote for herself while alive as an attempt to prove the claim, she wouldn't have any reason to seal the deal. I was actually confused then (and now) by your, eventually correct, prediction that farside would self-hammer. That said, it probably was rash to put the L-1 down at that time, but the case at that point seemed overwhelming.

Additional discussion wasn't going to reveal any more about whether or not farside was scum

(it was crystal clear that she was), but I am sorry for curtailing any more disscusion that might have been fruitful.

You, said yourself, that we shouldn't lynch farside till she spoke andthat discussion was good. It was obvious farside may self hammer based on the (fake) claim, and the fact that she kept throwing votes on and off herself. If you don't believe anything useful would come then why apologize for the vote on scum? The bolded I see as you gave up on her chance to defend herself, voted and then waited for a hammer.

Nonny: I've already posted what I wanted to post about the way Nonny played D1. It was lacking scumhunting despite being involved

At this point I can safly say the same for your day one and two behavior. Just because you voted someone different than everyone else, doesn't mean you scumhunted.

Ugh....FL is confusing one it's either faerielord or forbiddenlight. Comes up a lot...oh well. /sidenote

nfortunate if a preventable mislynch were to be undertaken simply because you had concerns that were never voiced outside of the vaguest of terms and that I never had any chance to respond to.

That looks like an appeal to emotion to me. Ussually these are used as a "don't do it, you'll regret it!" In my expierence ussually by scum or flailing town.

n these posts: She bemoans the speed with which the wagon has grown (39,43,44), asks for a case (37,38), fights intermittently with the cases she eventually receives(40,41,42), and basically gives up (45,46).

No i argued with LG because his case made no sense, and agreed that falcone's case made sense.

She does not: Defend farside directly (i.e. call her town, talk for her) or attempt any of the analyses she proposes. Her only direct address of farside is regarding Gurgi's Uncle Sam picture.

If these are points against me, they are against you as well. Though you didn't promise a re-read, you simply weren't there. I knew the current discussion, looked back on admiral didn't see where him being scummed suddenly got pulled from. Then got caught up in IRL.

I already admitted that I was busy, and didn't pay the attention needed. You seem to be skewing your case against me to look more substaintal than it is. The "mechanics" of cases I "ripped apart" were LG's and anybody looking at them would do the same. The only other case I commented on was Falcone's and only to say it made sense. I didn't cathc much of the admiral cases because I only had time to skim and fully read the longer of posts.

Her play goes nowhere and makes no effort to get the town anywhere.

Once again I could easily apply this to you.

When a town player undertakes a defense of another player that lasts unbroken for 10 posts, it is usually not undertaken lightly as it will be rightly seen to be a major connection to a player who is likely to be lynched and might just be scum for all they know. That Nonny's defense of farside is so timid and so uninsipired, that she at best gives lip service to the cases against farside, that even when she claims to agree with them makes no move of actual suspicion towards farside suggests the behavior of a scum watching a buddy sink and doing everything they can without going down with them.

First part is WIFOM, last part is silly. I had no reason to "watch a buddy sink" to "(avoid)going down with them" If this is your case it is weak at best. If I was watching then why would I bring up the speed of the lynch? Where did I defend her? I was against the speed of the lynch, and LG's case on her made no sense. Whereas falcone's case did. I wasn't going to vote simply because I agreed with one case. I wanted to look for myself to see if she was scummy, since I didn't have the time it never occured. I was not going to leave a vote on someone when I wasn't fully convinced on the case without having my own.

what do you make of nonny's continued indirect defense of farside22 during Day 3?

That your opinion, if so where? I may have been against the speed(again) but mostly because I was busy and being left behind. Please show how I'm indirectly defending her?

Also, you both have mentioned that I indirectly defend farside. But I was against the speed of the admiral lynch too, and had said as much. So you only pointing out the farside part seems caltulating.

I feel more than confidant to do this now

vote vivan

Reading through her play is just off, she never comments on players themself only the actions...She put farside at l-1 basically ignoring incogs suggestion. Her appeals to emotions and promises that had she been around it would be different are majorly scummy.

[nonny]

Sorry forgot to preview my tags....wow only one wrong! Anyways I am now all warm...fever I think. So I am done for the night.

[nonny]

Uhm sorry no LG. I'm not no longer sure about the lynch on you as stated before. I believe Viv is the lynch for today, from everything I said. Reading her posts in succession cleared that up for me. Thought about what was going on and all that. Also, the incog's gambit didn't hurt you either. Never said you are clear in my book, you are still suspicious.

[nonny]

Alright, thanks for the reply. I see what you mean. I get grumpy when I'm sick....taking a half sick day >.<

[nonny]

do you not think my participation could have changed the course of his wagon?

No, I don't. I also find it a pointless thing to bring up as you had.

That is all I feel the need to reply to right now.....can't concentrate enough to respond further, sorry.

[nonny]

nonny, will you be responding to the rest of her questions when you're feeling better? I'd be very content with seeing more responses from you.

surely will...when i can concentrate on it.

[nonny]

Is that addressed to me forbidden? If it is I'll assure you i'm not coasting. I really am sick and unable to reply at this juncture. That post by post analysis I did took a lot of work and energy I don't have. I swear when I'm better I'll be more than involved but this is all I can do at this moment...

And I realize we have autodeadlines here...right? So when would the auto deadline be?

[nonny]

Oh...by eventually I meant next day or two. Wouldn't put it off for five days no matter how sick i am.

Will you actually make comments on any analysis or just make a descision and then vote? More contribution from everyone will get us the furthest I think.

[nonny]

Pointless, since I wasn't expecting any comments on the analysis from you in the first place LG. If you do have actual game play comments that would be nice, but since you are sticking with your "i'm a gut player" thing I didn't think so. Whereas I was thinking forbiddanlight would have something to add, contribute, or comment on.

Vote Count!

Viv (2) - Incog, nonny
LG (1) - forbiddanlight
nonny (1) - LG

Not voting: Viv

With 5 Alive, 3 to lynch!

[nonny]

Okay I will respond to LG and viv, i guess. Again not at this time. Not exactly what i meant by commenting on cases.....but it's better than sitting around doing nothing I guess.

[nonny]

It was quicker to just to an in quote reply to LG and Viv.

Well, some parts of Nonny's case are blatant misrepresentations. A selection:

Fair enough. I overreacted.

I don't see why this is needed, she didn't over react. All that was done was ask for an explaination of why admiral overrates meta but was still useing it. He replied, and we get this. Really seems..like an apology and out of place.

I don't see why this is scummy. I extrapolated too far on what I saw as a contradiction and apologized when I realized that I was wrong to be as forceful in posting as I was.

Nab is right on this, Nonny's was a stretch.

I was merely pointing out her need to smooth everything over, it was hardly meant to condemn her. The way i saw it she didn't over react, nothing warranted an apology from her play, it just feels off

mirth accuses her of budding up over the spacecase claim. Viv insinuates that there may not be a picture to post baed on "independant research" uhm what?

Various image searches for the South Park charater mentioned. I found one really basic stock photo, but going from what I had seen of the townie and miller roles, the standard picture was an impact image macro, and there were none of those.

This line of questioning is irrelevant, it would have been nice had either of you said this back when it was said, but at this point it is meaningless.

Uhm...that makes no sense. So somehow from their only being stock photos you get the conclusion that space case may not have a photo and then later may be a cult figure. That was a stretch. How is it meaningless at this point? i'm not questioning the orginal claim or picture, I'm questioning her behavior.

Falcone's case on Farside is fairly solid but also fairly old. There doesn't seem to be anything from the end of D1 (though there's almost certainly material to work with) Why the sojurn to DBE before turning back to Farside today?

On the other hand, if Farside is scum, Admiral's ridiculously blatant defense of her should be underlined in red ink.

She is setting admiral up it feels like, a blant defense does not spell scum in a game where the players are expierenced. In a newbie game I can see this logic, but not here. Also, what does the case being old have to do with it, if you say it's good than it's good.

I only said his defense need be noted, and your grounds for ignoring it are classic WIFOM. I've been over the "old" idea with Incognito. I thought the case was fairly good, I was scrutinizing

Falcone

over ressurecting the case. Only after looking back just now do I realize that he never voted DBE *slaps forehead*

Nonny's right, this does look bad, usually it pays to check if what you're attacking someone for actually happened.

I still don't see how the case being old makes it any less "good" So really it looks just like an attempt to discredit it, poorly.

it's the only experience I've had with Admiral, but it will definitely flavor the way I treat the wagon that's cropped up. (Even if you dislike meta, it's still a fantastic game. It has several big names when they were just starting out, MOS playing the best game of his life, and a 45 page long D1 with no fewer than 4 L-1 wagons)

So she favors the wagon, without really saying much about it? Never actually votes.

F-L-A-V-O-R

Yeah... Reading is good.

Alirght, honest mistake...was sick when i read all this. So you didn't favor the admiral lynch? Guess it's hard to know now since you never clear stated one way or the other at the time

One thing that should have been bothering me more if I had been paying attention. Why in holy hell did farside hammer herself? There would be no point in keeping up the jester facade. I can think of 4 explanations.
-She had just given up
-

There was an outstanding question she'd rather not answer/a general fear of exposing her scumbuddy through defense
-She was afraid her buddy would expose themselves (further) in a doomed (chainsaw?) defense.

-Uber-WIFOM anticipation of posts like this

This post seems...subjective and perhaps purposfully distracting? Especailly the bolded part. Was any one activally defending her? I was saying the lynch was fast, incog wanted discussion before she most likly self hammered. If anything you set her up to self hammer with the l-1 vote. So are you trying to set some one up, or generally curious. Hard to tell.

I'm going to lump together all criticisms about my voting farside D3 here. When I voted farside, I did not consider her self-voting to be a possibility. I was thinking entirely along the lines of "Well, she wouldn't take her Jester claim so far as to self-hammer, so this is safe" (which I thought Incognito's waring was falsely based on). I'm aware of the scum's desire to end the day quickly, but I have

never

seen suicide as a tool of this, and the possibility just never clicked. I challenge those making a case of me, however, to make my behavior scummy and not-simply boneheaded. If I was giving farside a leg-up to suicide, why would I then call attention to the possibility of scum-buddy interaction in the above post (especially in such an awkward manner). Why wouldn't I just communicate a desire to bus, allow farside to self-vote, and apply the hammer at a time when it wouldn't look like euthinasia? I know most of this falls into WIFOM, but it takes a lot of WIFOM to explain away such apparently poor play.

Why is her voting a scum to L-1 being scruitinised? I just don't see this as a scum tell.

True it is WIFOM. Well now you know scum can commit suicide, I've personally seen it before. So now you say that you thought incog's inference that she would self hammer was silly, when orginally after being questioned on it you said you didn't see it....This is a small thing, but still.

Lg: because even though it was scum, it cut off discussion and promptly ended the day. Incog had also specifically asked for this not to be done so more discussion could happen. So preforming this act, when already warned of the possiblity, ended the discussion for the day

In regards to that appraisal, I was also very much wrong on giving farside and mariyta passes, and that post in particular will probably come back to bite me if anybody ever gets around to the PBPA's they've been talking about. Just because I take my time to make my decisions and value the discussion of the town over my own gut doesn't mean I don't take stands.

So she is aware of the fact she didn't take stances on them. She never mentioned her gut on them, only once asked that farside be allowed to post before her getting lynched, that was day three. So is this covering her own butt....feels like it.

I was saying I

do

take stands. This was an example meant to blast the notion that I have played carefully.

You

do

play carefully, and only now are you beginning to take a true position on things.

What stands have you taken besides recently?

Additionally, Mariyta was the only one to make an appeal to newbishness with her string of "but I don't want to get yelled at posts". The post that you refrence as my vote was made far before I could have formed an opinion on whether or not Darla should be considered a newb

But mariyta isn't a newb, so why excuse her based on that? She has been playing for quite some time.

If it walks like a newb, posts like a newb, and smells like a newb...

It is a noob.

I guess but I personally wouldn't let someone off that has been here since what 04, 05 of as being a newb.

I felt it was more important to shine some light on those I saw as lurkers than to wagon a person I wasn't confident about. Instead of following, I scumhunted

You didn't really scum hunt, you just placed a vote on a new person that no one was voting....this isn't scumhunting. you didn't even really follow it up later.

I attempted to, but was really posting only intermittently and with little time at that point in the game. I do remember asking one question (remember that there was not a whole lot of material to work with), but the time frame on her reponse and my rebuttal was too long to matter.

Nonny, I don't know where you get off criticising people about voting habits.

I'm not criticising the vote, I'm criticising that she is calling it scumhunting, one vote doesn't count as scum hunting. If it was too long to matter why keep the vote, IIRC you never unvoted.

Viv goes back and forth. She defends her actions for not voting farside saying she was suspicous but not enough to add another vote. Then defends saying no she wasn't trying to push a lynch on space case. This seems....very off. Why would you in one swoop be seemingly apologizing for not voting farside, then in the other not wanting a lynch. Sure they are different poeple, and that is the exact point. You want us to think you were against farside when you never voiced an opinion as such, but don't want incog to think you were/are against her/her predacessor

You are taking two different situations that I approached in two different manners and trying to eke a contradiction out of them. All you get is a mess. (I did express suspicion of farside in my initial suspects posts, btw)

Stretch by Nonny, had you dropped the last sentence, I would have no problem with this statement.

Sure you had her in your original list, page like 6? And didn't even vote her, instead you went after a lurker. You treated them somewhat the same at the time, you scrutinized thier play but never voted. Then now you say you treated them differntly. I don't see it.

Nonny: I've already posted what I wanted to post about the way Nonny played D1. It was lacking scumhunting despite being involved

At this point I can safly say the same for your day one and two behavior. Just because you voted someone different than everyone else, doesn't mean you scumhunted.

Now, see, this is funny, because I've been called on being somehow overzealous on Falcone and Spacecase D1. I was one of the first on DBE (though I eventually saw enough to get off), and my vote on FL was an attempt at scumhunting even though I wasn't able to pursue it.

Nonny, once again, I don't think there's any reason for not voting for two days. Just bad.

Once again, you didn't scumhunt. You were on DBE briefly when Falcone was for the "if no one else is very scummy" you said it should be if "no one is slightly scummy" then let's lynch LG thing. Further you critized spacecase claim up until the point falcone vouched for it. Then the next day you just said his case was "old" Where is the scum hunting? If this is scum hunting than it's very poor at best, and needless at worst.

LG: why do you feel the need to answer for her, and defend her actions? Why do you have to bring up my play in the mean time, especailly because you keep missing the points

nfortunate if a preventable mislynch were to be undertaken simply because you had concerns that were never voiced outside of the vaguest of terms and that I never had any chance to respond to.

That looks like an appeal to emotion to me. Ussually these are used as a "don't do it, you'll regret it!" In my expierence ussually by scum or flailing town.

I'm not saying you'll regret lynching me (you will, but I hadn't said that until 6 words ago). I'm was not out of defenses, merely things to defend against (your post as replenished the store). This post remains as a call for the town to hit me with its best shot, so that I have every available chance to iron out misconceptions (see "flavor" above) and state my case. If I played poorly enough to still be lynched after all is said and done, then so be it, but I refuse to give up on stopping the town from making a mistake.

This seems off to me, mostly because you're not refuting anything, in fact you only confirmed what she said.

Right you say so be it, but say we'll regret it. How is that not an apeal to emotion?

LG: exactly, she did confirm what I said. Threats like this to the town don't bode well at all, and are not commonly used by town except on occasion in newbie games when they don't know how to defend themselves. I'm pretty sure you should know how to defend yourself, so why resort to these threats?

She does not: Defend farside directly (i.e. call her town, talk for her) or attempt any of the analyses she proposes. Her only direct address of farside is regarding Gurgi's Uncle Sam picture.

If these are points against me, they are against you as well. Though you didn't promise a re-read, you simply weren't there. I knew the current discussion, looked back on admiral didn't see where him being scummed suddenly got pulled from. Then got caught up in IRL.

I already admitted that I was busy, and didn't pay the attention needed. You seem to be skewing your case against me to look more substaintal than it is. The "mechanics" of cases I "ripped apart" were LG's and anybody looking at them would do the same. The only other case I commented on was Falcone's and only to say it made sense. I didn't cathc much of the admiral cases because I only had time to skim and fully read the longer of posts.

I am not condeming you for not being there (in fact, this period was one of the more active of yours in the first three days), I was simply commenting on the things your play lacked that might indicate you were scum.

I accept your point about Gurgi's case being crap, but continue to note your enthusiasim in attacking that particular piece of crap.

Essentially, my issue with your defense of farside is demonstrated by a later part of your post in which you are able to (in decent conscience) ask "Where did I defend [farside]?", and that the preservation of this ability appeared to be intentional.

No comment needed here.

Sorry, but even with hindsight I would rip apart his case. It was crap, crap cases even on now known scum are stupid. Just because she was scum doesn't make his case any better. Falcone's case I had nothing to add or sabtract from, but I wasn't going to make my desicion on his case.

I feel more than confidant to do this now

vote vivan

Reading through her play is just off, she never comments on players themself only the actions...She put farside at l-1 basically ignoring incogs suggestion. Her appeals to emotions and promises that had she been around it would be different are majorly scummy.

What are players if not their actions? But even with that being said, it's blatantly false to claim that I did this.

Farside's L-1 has already been covered.

doesn't make it any less valid

What appeals to emotion would these be?

The "you'll regret lynching me" appeals

Why is it scummy to claim that my participation in most of D2 would have altered its course? Given that my last post of D2 was all about ThAdmiral, my opinions on him, and his wagon, do you not think my participation could have changed the course of his wagon?

i don't think it matters, and I have no way to know if it would have besides your word it would. That does my no good, and just makes you look like you want townie points. Either way that is a stupid card to pull, not nesscarily scummy but it could be

This appears to be an extremely slapdash conclusion, did you really consider what you were doing when you voted me? Because I've put a lot of consideration into voting you. I've wanted to be absolutely sure I'm doing the right thing; signing my name to the wrong wagon now would almost ensure that I am lynched tomorrow, causing the town to lose. I'm still not sure if I want to vote you. There are still many existing and potential accusations to answer and to make (I'm getting to D3, Incognito. I promise!)

She's voted for two different people at this stage in the game, saying that she's very sure each time.

See, I did consider my vote on you, I thought about it for days before my PBPA just based on current play, and I have thought about it after placing it. And I'm still confidant over it. So you would be lynached tomorrow, you admitting to scummy lynchable play than?

LG: you said you were sure about the admiral....really I'm confidant about viv, when I made the vote on you I was confidant but not as confidant as I am now especially after what incog pulled. If I am wrong than I will have to re-evaulate you. So it's not like I've written you off.

I still like a Nonny lynch, and I won't settle for a Viv lynch at this point in time.

LG: from this all I saw was you defending viv's actions, some of which were pointless agreements and others were just pointless. This beheavior is odd, but I gues you often don't comment on cases and I guess the effort is good, but it's still weird that you are just agreeing with her except a few times when you saw I was logical and right. Have you even said why you want me lynched? As far as I recall it was just from our little back and forth and my lack of voting. So you complain about me not voting, and then about me voting too much. Make up your mind, either way I'm not going to try to appease you.

[nonny]

mod is deadline rules the same here we need less than 3 or does it stay at 3 votes for a lynch?

For once LG is correct. Plus we have till monday. Incog want to finally weigh in?

[nonny]

well than we are at a stalemate it appears since:

LG: will only vote nonny
Forbiddan: will only vote LG
Nonny: will only vote viv or LG
Incog: is voting viv, find non scum
Viv: doesn't want to vote

Is that right? Seems what I recall everyone saying.

[nonny]

Looked back forbiddan said she would willingly vote me or viv, didn't specify a prefernce. Just said it depended on if we looked scummier than LG.

LG i'm only slightly willing to vote, don't think I'm changing my vote though.

[nonny]

Side note: Did anyone ever wonder why farside22 was considered a Godfather as opposed to a Godmother?

Best point ever!

[nonny]

I was just looking for forbidden's comments. If nothing else is to be said I'm ready to go to night.

[nonny]

Oh...no I don't know that. Just mixed up game scenerios with another game I'm in.

[nonny]

Okay so I'm going out of town friday-sunday, with limited access thursday. I will be able to check from my phone but not often since i 'll be driving 15 hours.

[nonny]

Saw that coming.....had a feeling forbidan was the last bad girl. I never dropped my suspicions I just knew it would be a losing battle since you all had her written off as town.

[nonny]

Then i could be scum with you...that is how i play lol.

Yeah mod scene would be nice. Should have voted right off the bat but I knew LG wouldn't follow....

[nonny]

Bah. I do not understand how y'all were giving FL a free pass considering she just sat back day 4 and did all of nothing.

QFT

that is why i didn't push for her since incog and LG were so sure she was town. But my gut was very mad at me for it....lol I never trust my gut >.< damn it.

LG why did you vote so soon? that was super silly.

[nonny]

I don't know exactly what flipped me on you incog, but something in your posting made you seem more town to me, also you read on me affected it a little too. The way you post is logical and seemed very pro-town. I was never that against you mostly against how quickly everyone followed you as soon as you replaced in. Like FL and LG...

Yeah in 4 years i still havn't learned to trust my gut I play too cautiously. Until LG voted me I was still debating because I didn't want to choose incorrectly. Than he voted and I figured FL had to be the scum. Scum wait and then pounce in endgame I find no matter their playstyle.

[nonny]

Funny thing is mod hasn't declared it yet.

Also, LG I was leaned forbidden as scum...but you'll just have to take my word for it. I doubted i could sway you though.

[nonny]

I thought it would have been funny to not have the picture for vanilla townie provided...but that would turn into the "word" issue in mature mafia....oh wells.

I liked the set-up. Don't think we proved the women are better mafia players though....we did finish quicker then normal I think....The males probably tainted the experiment.