Mini 573 - Darkstalkers Mafia - Game over!

[gorckat]

Random.org has told me to vote DeanWinchester.

armlx has already come out against purely random votes, and I agree.

vote: Alabaska J

[gorckat]

I think, if needed, I could show I've been consistently against pure random votes since the MD thread discussing the "random vote stage".

What should concern you is I wanted to say the exact same thing about Al's two posts worrying about being targeted and not wanting to be suspected.

barn: armlx :p

[gorckat]

Where people use dice and similar methods.

Voting someone "at random" based on name, avatar, previous game event or w/e all involve deliberate choice, and are better for the town.

[gorckat]

Possibly, but you're giving the impression it was a non-committal vote.

Unless someone planned on somehow proving it was deliberate, I can't imagine why we should take random.org votes at more than face value.

[gorckat]

I probably could've been more clear:

Why should I assume or consider that people citing random.org are lying and the vote is intentional?

Any other joke/random reason is made with 100% intent to vote a person, no matter how flimsy the reasoning.

If scum want to distance in the first page(s), we should enforce a standard that makes them do it deliberately, not let them off the hook with fake random.org votes. We do that by not allowing any random vote to go unquestioned.

[gorckat]

I'm curious why armlx didn't find Al mildly suspicious for saying he believes townies should first and foremost not be suspect (something armlx disagrees with) but finds me mildly suspect for agreeing with his stance against random voting.

[gorckat]

Notice my vote is still on Alabaska.

Duh. I guess that implies a fair level of suspicion.

[gorckat]

@Sir T: If he was faking one for some reason, would you expect him to come out when asked?

[gorckat]

I'm not put off by Ranger choosing this game to rant. If it was something for him to get off his chest, where/when he did it is irrelevant.

His lurking is obviously of concern, but I think until a prod is picked up and no post made that its premature to speculate that he's intending to lurk through the day. We've one mediocre flare-up on the subject of random voting, and now on Ranger himself.

We can now start to look at who fell where on those subjects.

I'm thinking Al looks like he wants to be part of the Ranger wagon, but not responsible for it.

[gorckat]

At the end of it, he says he's going to keep up with the game and comment when things get substantive. I imagine his own defense would be substantial.

I suppose a wagon to force his hand in that respect does have merit. I guess I'm trying to avoid any rush to judgement on a single post and no confirmation of an ignored prod.

[gorckat]

Never said you started the wagon on him.

What I said was it was looking like you wanted the wagon to proceed, but did not want to actually get your hands in on it.

[gorckat]

@Al: Wishy-washy. much?

[gorckat]

isread your post because when you said I didn't want to be responsible for it, I took that as meaning I wanted to hide the fact that I started it (which I didn't) but you meant I was trying

to make it look like I didn't want people to know I was supporting it. Which I wasn't, necessarily. But I wasn't against it, either

, as I had FoS'd him.

Wishy-washy in bold.

[gorckat]

Do you normally FoS people whose wagons you don't support?

[gorckat]

No- that was for Al.

[gorckat]

FoS: spring

for the intentional lurking statement.

I agree with the view that Ross has been non-committal.

There are a lot of people without recent posts. My work net was down the last two days and I haven't had much time to spare, for my own lagging.

[gorckat]

unvote
vote: Sir Tornado

Last post here: Mar 7
Total posts since Mar10: 17 (including one or two in WSOGMM)

[gorckat]

I was unaware Dean had also lagged like that. I've played a few times with SirT and when I looked at his recent activity, he caught my vote.

Equal

FoS: Dean

for being active elsewhere but not here.

Al...you're distinction between Dean and SirT is

fascinating

.

RL can screw with things, and because of this, I view major lurkage like Dean's as a null tell until we can gather more info. Another thing that is bad about Dean's situation is that his lack of contribution makes him an easy target. Your post could be seen as scummy because of the fact that you are setting yourself up for voting for someone <snip> I don't think you had that intention; you were kinda just overzealously prodding.

Okay...Rogueben was vigorously prodding someone who is active elsewhere but not here by way of a FoS.

In gorckat's case, however, I normally would be okay with voting the lurker except that nothing in Sir Tornado's post scream "scum who messed up" so I think just a prod is all that is needed. Voting him is a tad overboard in my opinion...

Hmm...normally you're okay with voting a lurker (who is also active elsewhere but not here) so why a problem with Rogueben's FoS and willingness to vote Dean if he doesn't contribute or get replaced?

You also don't think SirT did anything scum worthy. You didn't mention that for Dean (I mean- he only has two posts. Kinda hard to make a big error there, huh?)

You seem to be judging two players with nearly identical behavior (lurking here, playing elsewhere) by different standards, and the people who move against them by different standards.

[gorckat]

Both should be responding in thread, according to the rules. If they need replacing, then I'll go back to Al. I think he's a very good choice for scum.

[gorckat]

@Al- so you were aware (if only based on my post) that SirT was posting elsewhere?

And you are normally okay voting a lurker?

Why is my vote to harsh?

Because you think the game slipped down his Watched Topics list? Are his other games more active than this one? If people have been posting here since his last post here, how exactly did this game slip down his Watched Topics list?

unvote
re-vote: Alabaska J

FoS: SirT

if Al is scum, I'd bet Sir T is, too.

[gorckat]

Gorkcat, Armix, Alabaska: What do you think of the headbutting between Spring and DP?

spring seems to be saying there was more coming in the way of answers and DK is pushing hard for them. I hadn't made up my mind yet because of apparently incomplete info.

GW, on the other hand, is getting much less attention than he deserves. He is not really lurking - he comes to post no-content posts, starts staying away from the RoN wagon, then answer questions for him when DP starts questioning him, then joins the bandwagon when it gets popular.

I have been a bit tunneled on Al, and GW hasn't done anything yet. Do you think if GW is scum that Flame(RoN) is, too?

[gorckat]

Al- you keep answering questions directed at others, and it keeps making me think you're doing it to try and stay ahead of any bandwagon curve.

[gorckat]

I was asking Claus what he thinks of GW and Flame(RoN) being linked. I'm pretty sure you've done that before.

[gorckat]

@DP: Did you read Al's different reactions to Dean and SirT getting attention for lurking (before anyone brought up GW or Dean)? What do you make of that?

Looking back at Claus' thread reviews, it looks like he points out Dean for the same things as GW, but goes after GW.

FoS: Dean
FoS: Claus

[gorckat]

armlx- what faulty reasonings am I also using to attack Dean?

Dean and SirT were both posting elsewhere but not here
I voted SirT because that's whom I noticed
I FoS'd Dean once I was aware he was gone, too
I voted Al when it looked like he was treating the two cases differently (he left a few questions about that unanswered, too)
I'm now FoSing Dean and Claus because it looks like Claus brushed away Dean

Claus was just pointing it out but felt the case was a null tell and attacking Dean for it in itself was scummy.

I don't see where he called it a null tell, nor do I see where he said it would be scummy to attack Dean.

[gorckat]

Like a box of Neopolitan...

Even though he seems to contradict it once in a while, i get the sense that alabaska is just clumsy, possibly newb, town.

Thank you for this comment. If Al ends up being revealed as scum at some later point (possibly today), you are extremely suspect.

1) Ross had an earlier statement and FoS that stuck out to me on Al, as well.
2) By pointing this out, Ross is less likely to continue making this mistake (if it is, in fact, a true slip).

L-2. Standard warning that anyone who votes Al from here until after he defends himself further is very suspect, and that anyone who ends up lhammering him between him making a full defense and claiming is even more suspect.

Why the heads up for anyone that wants to jump on Al? You could have said something like 'I want to hear from him before anyone hammers'.

And claiming? No. Al shouldn't claim. Unless he's a Vanilla townie. Scum shouldn't get off by claiming Power.

[gorckat]

It was worth a shot, at least, to see if he might claim vanilla. I think DR also mentioned it in the mini theme sign-up thread (or he linked me to that post).

[gorckat]

Do you know the name of the SK?

[gorckat]

Don't think I posted in any game over the weekend. I'm going to work and then Opening Day today. I'll post either from work or this evening.

[gorckat]

unvote

I actually think the flavor kind of works, at least as far as Demetri being an SK, the way he's described in Wikipedia. Morgan is also supposed to be an important character, so if no one is countering him, then I think he's legit.

I'll be back tonight to figure out where my vote goes next.

[gorckat]

1. How would it help mafia to jump off a claimed SKcop?
2. If I was SK, how would it help me to jump off a claimed SKcop?

Claus: Do you have answers for these questions?

[gorckat]

I don't want an Alabaska lynch. I'd prefer a duel at the very least.

Most recently, you had FoSed GW and armlx- why DP over GW?

[gorckat]

But what does this has to do with the fact that Rogueben overreacted to a minor fos of mine? I think he is a better lynch than Alabaska (and much better than DP).

I would go for a DeanWinchester lynch as well, but I'll wait for the opinion of the replacees.

Now, we are 48 hours away from a deadline lynch. I don't see DP dead today - didn't see him as scummy, and I would like to see if Alabaska will survive the night. Other people don't seem to have reacted to your overreaction, or to my vote in response of it (other than gorckat) - so you are probably not getting lynched today.

So I guess I'll jump on your boat and
Unvote; Vote DeanWinchester Xtomx

vote: Claus

Finding rogueben lynch worthy and then voting the same person he is seems really fishy.

[gorckat]

Finding rogueben lynch worthy and then voting the same person he is seems really fishy.

What does this mean?

Claus was saying he wants to lynch rogueben. Now he's voting DW/Xtom

with

rogueben. That doesn't make sense to me.

Sure- a full on wagon is gonna have someone you find scummy on it, but in this case, Claus' best lynch candidate is the only other voter.

[gorckat]

Huh. I would've expected Al to go down, being practically confirmed with the SK's death.

[gorckat]

Sorry about my lack of activity since replacing in. Shortly after I replaced in I was V/LA for a short while, and when I got back it was night.

I will read the thread and post opinions.

So what did you base your night choice on?

[gorckat]

Why thank you. Have you forgotten that time we asked Al not to claim unless he was vanilla?

And its not fishing- if he did something at night pro-town, he should have read the thread already.

[gorckat]

Good point. Hadn't considered that.

[gorckat]

Xtom's rapid fire responses look like a guilty conscience trying to explain himself.

@Flame: Do you think either armlx or Xtomx are coming at you from a scum position?

[gorckat]

FWIW, I'm getting used to DP's posting. Yes, its odd, but you just need to read what it says, not read the rhyme, if that makes any sense:

Do you have a completed game where you said you were against random voting?
Your defense of Ranger/Flame, then you vote him, I am noting.

The first line makes sense the way it is written. I read the second as: You defended Flame, then voted him, which I think is noteworthy.

Its almost automatic for me to now translate it as I'm reading it.

[gorckat]

Al- did you look at someone last night? Someone else asked and I haven't seen an answer.

[gorckat]

It would be helpful to do so in the future, to ferret out anything like a scum-aligned RB lacking a better target.

[gorckat]

I don't like the "so, what did you get yesterday?" from gorkcat. Rubbed me the wrong way, I'm not just sure how yet. The "RB with nothing better to do" excuse doesn't make much sense.

Please let me know if it occurs to you why it bothers you or makes you uncomfortable that I'd be interested in people targeting Al.

this last post is 7 days past.
how many more will pass?

And seven posts since in another game,
'tis a bother and quite lame

I'm curious where he'd weigh in on both the tizzy with Flame and armlx/xtoxm and this little sidebar of mafia RB/targeting speculation.

[gorckat]

What bothers me is that I can't see why town would do that. How does it help scumhunting?

Hypothetical: Watcher watches Al. Two people target him. One's probably a doc (he is confirmed, after all). And the other would be?

[gorckat]

Not just scum, scum power role.

[gorckat]

No- I was thinking of a night when another person had died, as in past tense information.

And town can go one for one a lot easier than the scum can.

[gorckat]

Holy crap- GW hasn't posted here since 4-7, and spring who had soemthing up there sleeve is absent a week, too.

Mod: prod spring and GW?

[gorckat]

Check rule two. Protecting one/both of them form attention?

[gorckat]

Sorry for my absence the last few days- RL stuff (b-day parties, in-laws visiting, angling for a job interview and now my daughter apparently fracturing her elbow/wrist) are keeping me from doing anything productive.

I'll post this evening if I can sit down and read up.

---

DR was prodded over a week ago in another game and never responded- does anyone know if he had a backup mod?

[gorckat]

My non vote you mean? I have something up my sleeve thank you.

I can't remember if I've quoted this yet. Let's hear it.


As much as I despise Flame's insults of people, a couple posts of his have me split on him. He hasn't done much to present a case of his own, other than attacking those attacking him, and his attitude of 'town is fucked' and not bothering to repost a correctly bolded response to Claus are null tells.

They could be frustrated townie or given up scum. I've seen both in others.

[gorckat]

I want to hear from OpFor's replacement. We've had zippy from him today, and we need something.

[gorckat]

I think a mafia is very likely. Someone died Night One, after the SK.

Two people targeted Al night one, FWIW.

[gorckat]

Yes- I know the names.

[gorckat]

I think that Gorckat should reveal the names. We probably caught the Cult Leader red-handed here.

Even if I out a doc?

[gorckat]

If I wait any longer, we can't act on the info at all:

Claus and OpFor targeted Al, thus why I've been pushing for OpFor or his (eventual) replacement to do something.

In a vacuum, I've been willing to think Claus doc'ed Al, but with no idea what OpFor was up to, its hard to say.

[gorckat]

Does anyone besides spring have confirmation of a cult in the game?

spring: You said you had the cult leader's name, didn't you? We really need it.

[gorckat]

Holy crap!

[gorckat]

Who should gorckat watch?

No one- it was a one shot power.

I'll comment on all the goings on later tonight.

[gorckat]

This whole double RB/doc (jailkeeper) thing is a bit disconcerting, even if power roles abound.


I agree with Claus that trusting a claimed mafia doesn't a lick of sense. More than likely, he just wants to confuse things to his faction's advantage at this point.

I'm not convinced that any kind of name claim makes much sense just yet- what we'd basically be hoping for is someone to dupe a name, right? If SL knows the CL name (and if you haven't clarified that for me yet, don't- there's a load of stuff to be caught up on at some point), then they'll not use it.

What does make sense is to lynch the caught scum go from there.

[gorckat]

Bah, investigated BBM last night to double check if what I thought was true was. Obviously, he turned up town.

Who?

[gorckat]

Ah- gothca.

Then we were somewhat of the same mind, armlx (looking at the Flame/Xtoxm flare-up). I was able to determine Xtoxm is not a darkstalker.

vote: Xtoxm

[gorckat]

Who should gorckat watch?

No one- it was a one shot power.

Oh my goodness. This is gold.

Strong FoS: gorckat

I never said I couldn't do anything else. I said

watching

was a one-shot power.

I used my other one-shot power to investigate if the least prolific person was a Darkstalker or not, which by his confession you can see he is.

(he claims not to have investigated one of the jailkeepers, which would have been the obvious prudent decision for protowns).

Obv, I disagreed here. If you guys are jailkeeping each other, then I can't read either of you, can I?

I do agree that we need to hear from spring and her cult details before moving forward.

[gorckat]

No- no one shot vig power.

[gorckat]

@Mokina:

No- no one shot vig power.

I haven't had a chance to look back and review GW's posts. I'd like to do so before any lynch happens.

[gorckat]

Heh- I just read over his stuff and its a lot of nothing. He's been more passive than I had recalled.

For shits and giggles:

vote: Flameaxe

[gorckat]

Dammit.

unvote
vote: Flameaxe

Have to wait till the next vote count to see if anything can be done about souls BIH.

[gorckat]

Duh- thank you. Had flame on the mind because one- he's already burning (:P) and he died last night.

unvote
vote:Rougeben

[gorckat]

Good to know!

unvote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-Bee

After reading that, I'm pretty sure GW is the CL.

vote: Ghostwriter

[gorckat]

Hmm. I remember looking at Lilith when Al claimed and thinking it would make sense if Lilith needed to hook up with Morrigan at some point.

Looking at Lilith's wikipedia entry, it seems that while spring might be claiming cult-cop, she mightbe looking for Jedah for something else.

[gorckat]

armlx visited spring. I tracked him to try and confirm he wasn't cop-ing people based on cult results.

[gorckat]

I've only made one track. I watched you and investigated Xtoxm for Darkstalkerness.

[gorckat]

Huh. 48 hours sounds good.

[gorckat]

Am I the only person wary of feeling all smug like we've won when there are at least two people anti-town still alive?

I haven't yet celared all possibilities of armlx either being a cultie taking the fall or there actually being a cultie out there that could win if he makes it to true endgame.

[gorckat]

Also, i've been thinking there's something dodgy about 2 jailkeepers. Especially when i'm a roleblocker.

Like ooba, I am a JOAT. That is what made me willing to believe two jailkeepers in the setup, and I have at least one power duped by others (investigation, somewhat).

The multiple factions makes duplicate roles very plausible.

[gorckat]

Yes, i'm essentially a pro-town vig at this point, and you blocked my kill. (And my RB).

So you can do both at once?

I do believe armlx is the CL. If there is a cultie, its Claus given his reaction to the unculting of recruits.

[gorckat]

vote: armlx

Too much noise.

[gorckat]

I've said it several times before- I have no vig power.

[gorckat]

vote: Xtoxm

[gorckat]

Gorckat, I have not been impressed with gorckat’s scum hunting abilities in any game he has been in. But you fire a shotgun enough times in a forest, you eventually will hit a tree.

I've never impressed myself either, FWIW

I suppose bagging the SK Day one made things a lot easier, as well as the cultcop surviving long enough to reveal. Before the role and night action reveals, I was actually thinking town was overpowered (even with a sk and cult out there) but it looks more like we got lucky making all the right moves.