Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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Late to the party. Sorry fam.
I'll join RVS by punishing myself for lurking.
VOTE: Nn30
To answer questions from earlier...
1) What is your preferred alignment?
Scum. It's more fun.
2) Are you often mislynched? If so, why is that?
Haven't played enough to know.
3) Can you describe your play style concisely in one sentence?
Only if you can ask your question concisely.
4) If you were the deciding vote at lylo with the slot above you, and the slot below you, which player would you lynch and why?
I'd lynch PenguinPower. They're useless birds - they can't even fly!
5) How excited are you for this game?
Mafia / Werewolf / The Resistance / Secret Hitler / Spyfall are all wonderful games. Deception games are my favorite. Problem is it's hard to play them in person regularly. So...
HELL YEAH I'M PUMPED LETS DO THIS.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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In post 62, eagerSnake wrote:
Why aren't you voting me then? If you're going to try and push popular opinion in this light then vote me you scared childIn post 61, implosion wrote:This feels reeeeeeally like a scummy claim to me. Pings me really very hard. Feels like a mafia ascetic trying to act like a town ascetic. It also doesn't necessarily reduce the negative effect of ascetic to claim it, as, if town, eagerSnake is now a free nightkill if scum want to kill him.
This seems overly aggressive.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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Fair (to both points).In post 87, Gamma Emerald wrote:
No, scum is more concerned with staying alive then finding scum.In post 84, nn30 wrote:Yes, I outed myself on post 1 day 1. /s
Your over-aggressive-ness is a sign of scum IMO. If "I'm not afraid to die" is your reaction to getting voted then you're not playing to your win con.
I'm more of an MLA guy.
And I hate writing papers in general.
@eagerSnake - Dug through your finished games. Only found three completed - you were town in all three.
1) Did I miss a finished game where you were scum?
2) You explained similarly aggressive in one of your townie games. You explained that if you're a townie you don't mind dying (especially for a power role)- because your reads flip and everyone gets to re-read you as a confirmed townie. Dying for the cause. Because of this I'll retract my suspicion at your aggression - for now - since it's consistent with how you've played in the past.
3) Before anyone tells me not to base too much off of meta... I know. It's not like I have much to go off of on page four.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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@everyone - is there a list of all the possible PR's which could be in this game? Would be useful if I could dig through it.
Sorry about that!In post 95, Gamma Emerald wrote:Naw he's new: I know because he was auto-subbed into my first game.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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I read the RVS of a few random games. In 2 of 3 games my initial scum-reads turned out to be accurate. There's a lot to be learned in RVS.In post 99, MariaR wrote:I don't think anyone has done anything that is towny or scummy yet but this is amusing to watch.-
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In post 86, Grendel wrote:
If I was wanting town approval before I did something then why did I not wait for a positive response before posting?In post 64, implosion wrote:Grendel's opening post is also potentially scummy.
Why not just ask the questions? This seems unnecessarily roundabout.Grendel wrote:Anybody up for some questions?
I've been finishing up a new set I want to use.
Some people are roundabout in the things they do. However, it doesn't mean that they don't get anything done.
That was more me signifying that I was about to post my questions then anything. If I had gotten a response, positive or negative, I would not have pulled back from my original opening.
Yes, I like to review the question results to see if I can divine some alignments. Why not contribute to the game with your answers?
If this is non-sarcastic then I'm holding you to this - I'd like to hear what actual alignment-indicative or otherwise useful content you're getting out of these questions.Grendel wrote:If its cool I'd like you all to leave me to analyze them,
Also of all games to feel like you need to force an RQS or RVS, this is a very silly one. We havea claim.On page one. An unusual one at that. We have a goldmine of material to analyze already - why do you feel the need to instigate an RQS? RQS and RVS as they're usually conceived are both kind of outdated anyway. There's usually enough substance in the first few posts to get reads that are legitimate enough to argue about, even if they're very unstable.
I don't know if Eager claiming ascetic at day start is more likely to come from town, or scum. So I'm doing something I'm more familiar with.
I'm interested why you find my entrance poitenally scummy when you feel Zoronos is legitimately scummy. If you thought that Zorones was implying I'm scum then why was your initial reaction to my post, "well that's kinda scummy"? Sorry, but its weird that you'd have me as a tertiary scum read while your top scum is, in your opinion, also scum reading me. If you think he is scum, why do you think I am scum too?
I am not seeing much town intent with these pushes of yours.
Okay, gun to your head: Am I mislead town, or misleading mafia?Zoronos wrote:
Because I don't vote the instant I have an inkling of suspicion. Or moreover, because the simple act of asking the questions isn't necessarily scum play. Using the questions as a sole form of contribution on the other hand is (which doesn't necessarily mean Grendel, a townie putting down that kind of list gives the scum room to dwell on it to contribute, so it isn't even that Grendel is scum for doing it, it's just pro-scum to exist). So yes, I'd rather take the hard line early and nip camouflaging play in the bud.In post 64, implosion wrote:Zoronos, you're implying a scumread on Grendel; why not follow it up with a vote?
Or maybe these boards don't have a conception of 'fake content' or maybe I'm using the wrong jargon to explain the idea. If I'm unclear, well.
I disagree what you are saying about RQS, but I'll have to wait until I've gotten a decent sample size before I post full reasoning.
In the meantime it'd be super nice if you'd humor me and play along.
I'm suspicious of this post. It's too early for you to be this defensive.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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Why?In post 184, eagerSnake wrote:Zoronos is probably town-
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I'm inclined to agree.In post 162, Zoronos wrote:
I'm trying to figure out if I agree with you on this one or not.In post 132, Gamma Emerald wrote:VOTE: Implosion
Serious vote. He doesn't talk about LUV at all but then votes him. Trying to flashwagon are we?
Implosion's logic and stances seem, to me, to be very confused.
It seems like he's holding contradictory opinions and trying to justify them after the fact because he was playing off gut and didn't think through whether they made sense together (which leans towny).
My gut doesn't like his post, but I think that's because a lot of it is talking about himself. I want to call him scummy for that, but he's responding to a direct question about his behavior, so talking about himself makes sense. He's answering a direct question after all.
So basically my head and my gut disagree on that slot.
In 61 Implosion makes somereallythin analysis based on well... not much.
Also, in 61 he gives a reason for snake being scummy. In 62 snake calls him out on it (why don't you vote me then?) and in 64 he goes on to ask Zoronos why he didn't follow up his scumread with a vote. He ends 64 by voting Zoronos.
Here's what the problem I have with that exchange - he doesn't vote anyone in 61 himself (which contradicts his line of questioning to Zoronos in 64). After snake calls him out in 62, he claims to have a "number of reasons" to not vote for snake (wut?) and then goes on to vote Zoronos.
The play feels reactionary - he felt afraid of snake being so direct with him so instead of going toe to toe with Snake, he deflects and votes for Zoro.
VOTE: implosion-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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Also, implosion went dark after leaving his vote on luv. It's been ~18 hours since he last posted (compared to some pretty heavy activity on his part early on).
He could just be lurking for legit reasons.
Or he could have started lurking in response to getting some heat and just let the thread move past thinking about him.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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Agreed on the town readIn post 242, PenguinPower wrote:
I've done both flipping a coin. Doesn't make it valid.In post 241, Grendel wrote:I have legitimately caught scum with RQS. I've legitimately identify'd town too.
Yeah. You're town.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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In post 231, nn30 wrote:Also, implosion went dark after leaving his vote on luv. It's been ~18 hours since he last posted (compared to some pretty heavy activity on his part early on).
He could just be lurking for legit reasons.
Or he could have started lurking in response to getting some heat and just let the thread move past thinking about him.
These posts occur next to one another (mine was 243, his was 247). I posted in 243 about Implosion potentially using lurking as a scum tactic. He then starts his series of posts, with an explanation for not being aroundIn post 247, implosion wrote:Took longer than I thought to get to this game today so forgive what is about to be a multipost because I think they're more readable than walls. Alas.
but totally ignores the fact that I mentioned this as potentially scummy.
It's like he wants to discredit my reaction to him lurking without directly engaging/responding to me.
He then makes a series of posts responding to older stuff and totally ignores that I've voted for him in 229.
More implosion votes please.-
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@town - can you follow my line of reasoning? I ask because I want to see if Implosion is the only one not understanding me.
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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Yep.In post 291, MariaR wrote:
What I get from what you're saying is he's only posting when it's convenient for him to post yes?In post 289, nn30 wrote:@town - can you follow my line of reasoning? I ask because I want to see if Implosion is the only one not understanding me.
Also that from 247 - 261 he addresses a significant number of issues, but ignores the ones I've raised with him. The most he responds to me is by giving an explanation for why he hasn't posted in a while.
Apologizing for not posting for a while would have been a fine explanation - had he directed it at me. Instead, to me, it feels like he tried to slip an explanation under the radar without having to directly confront me on anything. THAT felt more scummy than the post pattern itself.-
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In post 303, Zoronos wrote:
Super busy day at work so I'm behind, but I agree with this sentiment.In post 295, MariaR wrote:
I think you're looking into that a bit to much and overthinking I don't think that's what he was going for that seems way to smartIn post 294, nn30 wrote:
Yep.In post 291, MariaR wrote:
What I get from what you're saying is he's only posting when it's convenient for him to post yes?In post 289, nn30 wrote:@town - can you follow my line of reasoning? I ask because I want to see if Implosion is the only one not understanding me.
Also that from 247 - 261 he addresses a significant number of issues, but ignores the ones I've raised with him. The most he responds to me is by giving an explanation for why he hasn't posted in a while.
Apologizing for not posting for a while would have been a fine explanation - had he directed it at me. Instead, to me, it feels like he tried to slip an explanation under the radar without having to directly confront me on anything. THAT felt more scummy than the post pattern itself.
I do think you're town though for all this
NN30 sees himself as the focus of questioning / investigation and assumes that his target is considering his posts foremost when responding (assumes active neglect vs just not noticing / not caring). It reflects a stance wherein he believes everyone should be responding first and foremost to him; a responsibility seeking rather than a responsibility avoiding posture. He thinks his questions are super important and should always be answered, and that any avoidance of those questions is scum. Scum are happy to appear contributory, but this goes past simple appearance into active investigation attempt.
It's a 'Not considering equally plausible alternatives' fallacy, but this expression of the fallacy is much more likely to come from town than from scum, imo.
tl;dr active followup / active attempts to solve ergo leans towny.
I am reasonably pleased with what LUV posted over night and appreciate that he's taking a more active role in the game.
I need to find time to ponder Grendel more.
I still want a response from Penguin to my earlier question. Especially now that LUV made a big contribution post.
Translation - Nn30 is cute, he's trying, ++town points.
I'm still wary of implosion. Since I'm not getting any traction with him at the moment, I'll drop it and see if I have anything to contribute to the other wagons occurring right now.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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Explain?In post 326, eagerSnake wrote:So Gamma is probably town then, cool.-
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In post 128, Shadow_step wrote:Naked voting is Pro scum. ^Dude...
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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No it wasn't.In post 364, eagerSnake wrote:That's L-1.
Shadow was already on PP - check the vote count on the top of the page.-
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In post 374, Shadow_step wrote:Why would it be directed to you ? Are you scum?
What do you mean why would it be directed towards me?
In 128 you say "naked voting is scummy" and in 363 you naked vote PP.
Your reaction ("why would it be directed to you? Are you scum?") gives no indication that you even understood what I said.
Anyone else getting a scum vibe from Shadow_step now?
ISO him - he's done exactly 0 worthwhile scum hunting so far.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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In post 379, Shadow_step wrote:374, quote shouldn't be there, was directed at Maria
Okay - that's fine.
Now please respond to my 366.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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Also, what town reads had you gotten before I pointed this out?In post 381, Shadow_step wrote:
Whyyyyyyy, just when I was getting more town reads.In post 377, nn30 wrote:
No it wasn't.In post 364, eagerSnake wrote:That's L-1.
Shadow was already on PP - check the vote count on the top of the page.-
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In post 397, Shadow_step wrote:Like nn30 is ob town after that. Unless he is a very good scum player. I'll have to check his games to make sure.
@nn I was already voting PP and I had given reasons to vote him.
@Shadow_Step - You're not getting out of this by town reading me. So many people have done that already that it's about the safest thing in the world to do.
I would like responses to 366 & 395.
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In post 413, Shadow_step wrote:
I've already answered that?In post 404, nn30 wrote:In post 397, Shadow_step wrote:Like nn30 is ob town after that. Unless he is a very good scum player. I'll have to check his games to make sure.
@nn I was already voting PP and I had given reasons to vote him.
@Shadow_Step - You're not getting out of this by town reading me. So many people have done that already that it's about the safest thing in the world to do.
I would like responses to 366 & 395.
I was already voting PP because I didn't like his stance on the eager claim. He said he believed it and said he read him as null. Which was very safe. I'll get into the details of this later.
I got a town read off of you after that hammer because I think as scum you would attack me for hammering someone prematurely amongst other things .
1st answer was satisfactory.
2nd answer was not.
Result - scumlean.-
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In post 422, Grendel wrote:
His wagon on Lil Uzi Vert is easy. Lil is non contributing and anti town, but his play is a largely null tell for me because he did this exact same thing as town last time I played with him. Heck I, as scum, pushed to get Vert lynched with the same reason that Penguin is here. That Vert is “fence sitty and his lack of stances make him scum lordz”. Lil is a great wagon for scum!Penguin because he can push this wagon through with little consequence once Vert were to flip town.In post 342, Zoronos wrote:
Putting the answers to the random questions completely aside, can you point to why Penguin is scum, based on things he's posted in game?In post 302, Grendel wrote:Oh and, I'm about to get really busy on something, and won't be on tonight.
See you all tomorrow... evening?
His move to Gamma isn’t much better because Gamma is known for taking things at face value. Like Gamma is hard town reading, and defended me because I opened with RQS. This is because I played a game as scum where I didn’t open with RQS. When the reason I didn’t open had more to do with me subbing into a game with 20+ pages then my alignment. It’s the same thing with Vert, Gamma has an experience with town!Vert being fence sitty and non-contributory, so he thinks Vert is town here. Penguin’s biggest reason for voting Gamma is because Gamma tr Vert, everything else seems like that Penguin seems to find scum about Gamma looks like pretty normal Gamma play too honestly.
Basically Penguin has only pushed for wagons on easy players.
I also don’t care for announcing I’m town without explaining why. All the more awkward considering that he seemed to think i was scum, (or bad town), just one page earlier. I only posted a couple thought in between those points. I don't see how Penguin would have come to that conclusion as quickly as he did based solely on that. All I really did was defend my RQS, and tell Penguin that calling me "scum, or bad town" is an ugly knee jerk reaction. I could totally see Penguin as scum backing off because he decided I wasn't an easy lynch.
First off - I've been town reading you for a while.
Second - I don't think it's appropriate to townread gamma because he defended your RQS opening. Making that argument is strategy oriented and scum or town could make it. It's more null than anything.
FYI - I meta dived gamma. In none of the town games I found did he make a point of saying "I'm town reading xxx." He's done that a number of times this game. He's referenced playing mafia scum on another forum - which leads me to believe his play style is relatively consistent.
Do an ISO dive on him - you'll find him pointing out town reads on a number of people. Then check his past games. I think you'll agree with me.-
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Nah, not worried you'd brush me off.
Ulterior motive - trying to let the people I have town read explicitly know it.
Enough people have town read me by now that if I don't get NK'd tonight it's because of some WIFOM shit.
In the meantime I want to do my due diligence scum hunting and town telling.
@Snake - you're in the town pile too.-
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Not trying to lead is indicative of scum, not town.In post 466, Gamma Emerald wrote:Actually, she doesn't really seem to be trying to lead, so she's solid town.-
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I don't agree with this logic. He has presented two options - you could be genuinely pissed about a hammer or you could be faking it. He buttered you up by saying you're a good enough player to fake it.In post 470, MariaR wrote:
Shadow being paranoid about me being scum with faking a reaction screams town to me I know he's good enough to fake it but I think looking at his other posts he can be town aswell-
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In post 477, Gamma Emerald wrote:Reads atm, not ordered by strentgh, just who I chose.
S_S: null scumIn post 485, Gamma Emerald wrote: As for ShadowStep, I want him to not be as tunnely.In post 503, Gamma Emerald wrote: @PP: Because SS seems to be faking content.@Gamma - I 100% call BS.
Shadow Step said precisely nothing between 477 and 512 when you switch your read on him. At best this is town!Gamma being inconsistent / changing his mind on a read without explaining why. At worst it's scum!Gamma not being careful with what he says and being caught out.
@Town - I previously stated that I meta dived Gamma. In none of his town games (I read through 3) did he make a point to state town reads as they happen. He scum hunted and stated scum reads - never town reads.
In this game he's explicitly stated things that Luv & Snake were doing were town tells. He's explicitly said "I think you're town" to Shadow_Step, LUV, and Implosion.
Gamma smellsveryscummy to me.
VOTE: Gamma-
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Instead of reacting to the whole case you chose to react to a single part of it which, on it's own, would indeed be a BS case.In post 547, Gamma Emerald wrote:
This case is bsIn post 543, nn30 wrote:To add on - the reason his stating so many town tells feels scummy is that scum already know who town is - they have perfect information - what better way to gain cred with the town than "reading" their play and letting them know that he thinks they're town?
That's why cases are made up of multiple pieces.
More Gamma votes please.-
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Yet you have time to post two replies to me...In post 551, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I'm sorry I have less time to read than I like.In post 549, nn30 wrote:
Instead of reacting to the whole case you chose to react to a single part of it which, on it's own, would indeed be a BS case.In post 547, Gamma Emerald wrote:
This case is bsIn post 543, nn30 wrote:To add on - the reason his stating so many town tells feels scummy is that scum already know who town is - they have perfect information - what better way to gain cred with the town than "reading" their play and letting them know that he thinks they're town?
That's why cases are made up of multiple pieces.
More Gamma votes please.-
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That's twice now that you've responded to a case on you with a one liner.In post 597, Gamma Emerald wrote:Willing to move your vote if there is significant resistance
Hi, willing to please scum!-
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@Dierfire - Your 595 seems fairly convincing to me. I'm also inclined to give more credit to your reads because you came in late - people who come in late get a better picture of what's happened before them.
I agree that Gamma's quick switch on PP in 481 felt hinky. I also agree
Also, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
The fact that another player (Dierfire) is grouping the two of you together should have no bearing on your read of PP. Doing so is engaging in a logical fallacy.In post 570, Gamma Emerald wrote:
As for Dierfire, I think he is the most likely scum on PP's wagon.His grouping of me and PP feels like throwing shade on us. This makes me think PP is town.If Dier flips town I'll reconsider my PP read.-
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The grammar does, sure.In post 611, boring wrote:
Does this seem uncomfortable to anyone else?In post 607, Grendel wrote:
You suspensions of me actually strength my town read on you. The Scum!Eager I played with was totally okay with being a strong tr of mine. Your paranoia here makes me all the more sure you are town.In post 582, eagerSnake wrote:
Throw Grendel in there and lolIn post 579, Zoronos wrote:The dichotomy between Boring and Maria here is interesting; Maria is hard to sort because she is content light (apparently purposefully), and Boring is hard to sort because some of her content makes me go "Yup, that's scummy def" and some is "Well, that is pretty darn reasonable".
I mean, if youarescum you a mighty fine actor lol.
The logic doesn't.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
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- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1457
- Joined: August 15, 2016
I presume you've listed people who feel scummy.In post 614, Prism wrote:I don't think Penguin is undeinably rocksolid town but comparing him to people like Implosion, boring, LUV, Gamma, Maria, or even Grendel he might as well be the Pope.
If there are that many people on your scum list, you're doing something wrong.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1457
- Joined: August 15, 2016
In post 333, implosion wrote:And I think the most damning thing about Gamma (which I've mentioned but no one seems to have noticed) is still this flat-out contradiction. It's indicative that he doesn't actually have a consistent internal state of reads in his head; if he actually didn't hold the opinion that LUV was probably town, he straight-up would never have explicitly called LUV town. The fact that he called LUV town and then said that he doesn't actually believe LUV is town (just that a particular argument was bad) is very strong evidence that he's just pretending to have reads on people.
I think this post needs more attention. (I agree with it).-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1457
- Joined: August 15, 2016
@Gamma - Look, I'm new to this site. I don't know how people do things around here but I have a few things I'd like to share.
1) We're on a website specifically for people to play mafia on. I presume most of us have played these games in person, loved them, and brought them online because there aren't enough opportunities to play them in person.We're tryhards.
2) I've been internally putting people into my town bucket & scum bucket since the game started. The only reason I would forget where I put someone is because my read was weak.
3) If your read on LUV was weak enough that you'd flat out forget it in the space of 24 hoursyou shouldn't be stating it so strongly to begin with.
Fin.-
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nn30 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1457
- Joined: August 15, 2016
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