Mini 1800 - Game Over

[Masquerade]

Hi

UNVOTE:

Gonna start the catch-up read now.

[Masquerade]

Just reached page 17 and need a break. Will post thoughts when I'm done.

I'll respond to questions but please make them as concrete as possible (don't ask me what my reads are, narrow it down a bit)

[Masquerade]

Anyway, for bloodthirsty players like Mecha and qubixes, why not use this time to be productive? If I am scum, who are my scum partners?

I'm really curious to see what you think, seeing what you think prior to my flip is much more valuable from a town perspective.

If I'm going down, I'd like to take at least one scum with me.

I feel like this, and especially the bolded part, is a townpost. I had Karnos as a scumread all the way until the page this post showed up and I just want to say that if we're all going to be reaction testing and put out fake reads it's going to be hard to distinguish the townreads from the scumreads so please stop it. Karnos doesn't strike me as the kind of person to fake this as scum so while I still dislike the reaction test thingy, his explanation makes sense to me and he can be town. So can Wingback, but I already had good feels of sickofit at some point. Kind of popular reads I guess, I also like Persivul for town, but carefully.

Now that Karnos is a townread I need to reread some iso's, don't have strong scumreads. I'm not impressed with Dierfire at all so far, Shady doesn't impress me either but I did like Johnny's catch-up. Would like to see more from him. Species has next to no content at all but it's a small iso and not enough to actually call him scum for it but I'm very much looking forward to his replacement. Snork has even less posts but I get more townvibes from his posts compared to Species.

I don't like Mecha for focussing on Wingback while pushing Karnos. For one, if Karnos was scum I would expect him to either just fake changing his read from scum to town or not have such a detailed explanation for his reaction test at least. Also, Karnos has adressed Mecha and Mecha ignored that to keep pushing that Karnos faked a read. Why would any scum admit to faking a read? Even if it might be fitting to how you've been playing, you still do not want to put that seed into other people's brains.
I feel that Karnos saying he faked his read is a bit awkward, but I think what he means (and what showed from what he was doing) is he was actually townreading Pers but afraid/paranoid about being wrong. This happens, people get alts because of it. Anyway, he 'faked' scumreading Pers to get a more definitive reaction out of him hoping to ensure his read.

Mecha, what's your read on Wingback again?

Johnny, have any of your reads changed since your catch-up post?

[Masquerade]

@Qubixes: Right now I care more what you think of my townread on Karnos than what you think of Karnos. Why do you dislike the townreads on Karnos?

@Mecha: How and when did you get to that townread? And elaborate more please on that flip-thing.

[Masquerade]

Oh so you do have something to add then?

[Masquerade]

Karnos can you post some updated reads?
I have thoughts but no time so will talk about them later today.

[Masquerade]

I voted a player who I was currently reading as town

EXACTLY MY POINT!

I think we can reasonably assume that voting someone means that you think they're scum!
What's next, "I only said they were acting scummy, not that I thought they were scum; I actually believed they were town acting scummy the whole time"?
"I said I wanted them to be lynched, but I never said that I actually scumread them; I just didn't want them in the game"?

This is blatant semantics and I will have no part of it. TOWN DO NOT VOTE THEIR TOWNREADS. End of discussion.

I agree with you. BUT if I were scum and Karnos was town I would push the exact same thing you are pushing now. Sometimes townies, and especially newer ones, do silly things. They saw something work in another game and want to try it but they have not enough experience to know what they should be looking for.
Now I am starting to change my mind on Karnos because he parroted my post where I defended him without giving me credit and for me that looks like scum saw a good excuse for his thing and uses it for himself, after saying he actually had nothing to add.
Now maybe I would have listened to you earlier if you actually replied to MY post and explained to me how I was seeing things wrong (in your opinion then) but you seem to be stuck in a tunnel rn that is just saying: 'town does not vote other town'
Karnos explained he was townreading Pers in another game, but he flipped scum there. About an hour later he posted his vote for Pers in this game. He got paranoid of his townread because he saw him flip scum while townreading him in another game. The only reason that it sounds bad is because Karnos himself said his vote was fake. Now I don't know why Karnos called his vote fake, because if his story is true, it really wasn't a fake vote.
I will reread Karnos because I'm suddenly starting to doubt things.

@Dierfire: What exactly in my post are you not agreeing with?

@Mathblade: I've seen scum hard-defend their buddies 3 times since I started playing here. I was scum all those 3 times hard-defending my buddies (1 recent, 2 on my main) What I'm saying is: scum generally do not hard-defend. And you have Wingback as Karnos' buddy and me as a potential buddy. No.

(the bit about calling Persivul vs Sickofit TvT doesn't make sense either since Sickofit is my slot).

Btw, I think scum are less likely to get confused about who is who, and who is scum/town. Just some food for thought.

Ye sure but scum can also use that for wifom. So no. Also, I'm a messyhead regardless of my alignment
And I'm with Wingback on this one, it's really weird Mathblade calls Sickofit town and then Wingback scum in the very same post with actually
I need to quote it

qubixes -- Strong Town lean -- Post 175 -- I think qubixes is spot on with the Persuval v Sick discussion. That feels like TvT ripping each other apart. I don't really understand how that got started anyway. I plan on rereading this tonight and seeing how that got started. The first person on the Karnos list according to VC.
*****
Wingback (replaces Sickofit1138) -- I think they are probably scum with Karnos for the reasons above.

That's not confusement, that's not paying attention to your reads because you're faking them.

Ok, fully caught up now and I see I made kind of a huge post.. After I take a break I'll reread Karnos, I'm not ready to have him lynched, give me a few hours to look into this really carefully. I'm also going to read Qubixes, I think I saw something but I need to make sure if it fits. I'll let you know either way.

Btw, Karnos, you don't have me in your readslist.

[Masquerade]

Sorry guys, I should have announced this but I'm going away today and tomorrow is father' day so will be spending that with my parents for a big part. Another big part is sleep.. I'll try to post tonight if I'm cohesive but I'm not sure (depends on whether I'm the DD)

[Masquerade]

Too tired for this rn.

Just one question: Karnos, you basically confirmed that my thoughts about the way you voted Pers was accurate. Now here's my question: Why did you call it a fake vote? Because I can completely understand you getting paranoid of a townread that you were townreading in another game and in that other game said person flips scum. It happens. However, paranoia is not fake.
This has been bugging me since yesterday and I'm to tired to think rn.

[Masquerade]

I'm inclined to believe Karnos' claim. He's hinted at being PR during his pressure and I think scum would love to claim if they can come up with a good one and since scum have daytalk, if Karnos is scum his buddies could have helped him. I would have expected a claim to happen sooner if he was scum, so to say.
Also, the lack of a counterwagon being pushed tells me scum aren't interested in moving the attention away from Karnos.
I'm not sure about mathblade yet, he should be experienced enough to not assume scum hard-defend each other? If Wingback and I are Karnos' buddies, why would we want to endanger ourselves? For a long time it looked like Karnos was getting lynched no matter what. I'd rather lynch someone who hasn't given an opinion yet. I'll start with Johnny because he suggested it.

VOTE: Johnny
What are your reads on Wingback, Mecha and mathblade atm? Do you believe Karnos' claim?

@Qubixes: My first instinct was 'well that kinda cop is more useful to scum than to town' but that was before I checked the wiki and still thought it was just a fancy name for a vanilla cop. Best case scenario Karnos (if his claim is true and town-aligned) lives until lylo and cleared enough players, or identified scum, to get us a win. But that depends on other factors. I think 2 town cops will make town very strong and I have never seen it happen (tracker/watcher with cop sometimes ye, but not 2 kinds of cops) If there is another cop, I think they should decide for themselves whether to cc or not. I'm not cc'ing Karnos' claim, but if I had a cop-role I wouldn't cc for reasons I don't want to explain rn.

[Masquerade]

Check the rules ib the OP. ALL factions with pt may talk at any time.

Kappy is opportunistic. I'd vote him if I didn't like the wagon on johnny happening.

[Masquerade]

Can't quote it on phone but it's number 4 in post #2

[Masquerade]

Actually I think mecha is scummier for asking first.

[Masquerade]

mathblade, your idiocy makes it very hard for me to take you seriously. I also think it makes you town because I don't think scum will go where you are going.
How about you respond to my point of an entire scumteam hard-defending a buddy?

[Masquerade]

This is a self-preservation claim (NAI) If Karnos is scum that wants to lure out a town-pr he could have claimed cop, or (and imo more likely) try and lure out the doc.
If I didn't just finish that game with Karnos (where he was scum and there were masons) I would think he was scum trying to get out pr's.
So I for now believe Karnos is town unless modconfirmed evidence or a believable cc counters that.
And I think that's the best way to handle a claim from someone at L-1, unless it's lylo/mylo.
Also, in another game of mine not too long ago I was wagoned and I was a JK, which I obv claimed, and there was 1 guy that did not unvote, he would not believe I was JK. Mind you, this was an open setup (Sharing is Caring). He flipped scum.
We're not lynching Karnos today without a cc, I'd rather not see anyone cc Karnos Day 1 but on the other hand, I don't want to bet this game on pr's. Only 3 days left in the phase if I read that correctly.

I'm not sure how I feel about Johnny's wagon, votes piled on quickly after mine. Starting to worry I just started a cc for scum :/ so ye, re-evaluate it is.

[Masquerade]

Ye no I'm not worried. Karnos is town.

VOTE: Qubixes
See previous post^

[Masquerade]

What's the problem with the votes on the Johnny wagon? Persivul's analysis on Johnny is accurate as is Mechagoomba's elaboration of it. I gave my reasons why I'm scumreading Johnny at least twice now and said I'd vote for him so that shouldn't have been a surprise.

If we're going to dismantle a wagon purely because it formed quickly, how are we ever going to lynch anyone?

I'm not trying to dismantle the wagon on Johnny. Though I started it because he had disappeared which made it look to me like he had hoped Karnos would get lynched.
I think it's ironic he started to respond more since he got wagoned. Then I got good reason to scumread Qubixes and changed my vote because I also wanted to see what Johnny would do. He completely ignored it.. I don't know, I just get this strong feeling with him that he doesn't really care that much. So time to get to know Johnny a little better (look at his more recent games) He's more involved as town. I found 2 scumgames (I didn't go back too far, people change) and in one he died too soon but the other one is the game his playstyle rn resembles most for me.

@Johnny: You didn't seem too interested in the gamestate when Karnos was still being wagoned. You also haven't said anything about Karnos' claim. You got interested when you started getting votes. Or am I wrong?

VOTE: Johnny

[Masquerade]

What makes you think he'll live that long?

[Masquerade]

Lol I'm an idiot.

[Masquerade]

@Johnny: In 1 of the games I saw a post of yours that said something about being gone for a year and then dying so fast, so I only went up from there, here's link http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=59284 The second scumgame I saw was the third forthnight http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66246
The towngames were Nightless vengeful mayhem 613 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=63741 Mini 1782 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65928 Mafia cafe mini 1709 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=63042 and Newbie 1537 of which I saw later it's over a year ago, but still fits with the other towngames.

[Masquerade]

No he missed the other clue.

[Masquerade]

I'm bored.
Dierfire, you gonna make us wait another day or you here now looking? What do you mean when you say looking?

[Masquerade]

@Masquerade: Okay, so you have a bunch of links to games. Are you planning to analyze them at some point?

From my limited look at his games, I'm willing to write Johnny's behavior off as being playstyle for now. Might come back later.

No. I did what I did with them and am done with that now. I was curious about Johnny's playstyle in general, that's about all I can get from past games sadly. That's also why I didn't post the links initially, but Johnny asked.
I thought I saw similarities between that forthnight-scumgame and this game. In the towngames I saw I felt Johnny was more engaged and pro-active, while in that scumgame and here he was less engaged, and reactive. But then last page makes me think I saw wrong.
I want to do this rn.

VOTE: Math

[Masquerade]

I should probably reread on some stuff because rn I have a few issues with magna..

@Johnny, in a rolemadness I was a scum tracker, claimed tracker, shared results/confirmed townies and killed them later, and won (on my main) So yeah, we should definitely be critical of Karnos, but I think if we give him a night or 2 for results we can use that to figure out his alignment. That also gives him a day or 2 to show us he is town. Meanwhile we keep on scumhunting because p sure we're playing against more than 1 scum so even if Karnos is scum we'd still have to find more (his buddy/ies, opposing faction, 3rd party?)
I know flips will be able to help me strengthen some reads.

[Masquerade]

A vanilla cop gets vanilla results on goons, a neapolitan gets vt/not vt basically.

[Masquerade]

Low and behold what do we have here. Masquerade was actually the first person to drop a vote on Johnny but because of when GreyICE did vote counts it looks like Persival. Then when the wagon starts to pick up steam Masquerade votes me. They also do not explain why they are voting me either or try to explain why they are voting me. Instead it is what they "want". This looks like trying to split the bridges more so than any case they can provide. If they thought Johnny was scum but I was scummiest I would have expected them to at least explain a reason of some kind as to why me over Johnny. This would get people to look more closely at me and try to analyze me, which is what you want people to do to your top scum read. To help gain understanding of if you are right or wrong and why.

I was indeed first to vote Johnny. Then I voted Qubixes when Johnny's wagon built up, then I revoted Johnny, then I voted you. If you had issues with my votes, why didn't you address it when I made them?
And since you seem to really want to know why I'm voting you: Snork wasn't impressive at all. You so far have focussed most on Karnos, you also kept your vote there very long and in one of my previous posts I explained why I think that's scummy (683). You keep throwing shade my way but you don't engage with me and you ignored what I said about you in 593 and 669.

[Masquerade]

Hm I was just starting to like magna better. I'm afraid I'm starting to get biased from pre-associations. My favourite lynch for today is mathblade, but I can go back to Johnny, keeping my eyes on the clock.
magna's thoughts on mathblade's vote on Dierfire matched mine to the point.

[Masquerade]

I'm here just really quick before having to go, and the bits my eyes caught in mathblade's post made me not even want to read it because it's a big collection of misreps.
Mathblade or me today. Lets go.

[Masquerade]

I have never done this 1v1-thing before but now I get why people want to. I want to prove math is wrong SO BADLY I want to flip for it.

[Masquerade]

Ofc I'd rather have math lynched because I'm p sure he is scum and while people are townreading me apparently (not mathblade ofc), nobody has talked to me about my read there so my assumption is nobody has a problem with it.

[Masquerade]

You can see how hastily the post was crafted because he calls Persivul vs Sickofit "TvT" while at the same time calling Wingback "probably scum" - this sloppy mistake shows he didn't really do the work, but rather was just desperate to get out a hit piece on me ASAP before the wagon lost momentum.

This.

@Qubixes: Here it is very, very concise:

Snork wasn't impressive at all. You so far have focussed most on Karnos, you also kept your vote there very long and in one of my previous posts I explained why I think that's scummy (683). You keep throwing shade my way but you don't engage with me and you ignored what I said about you in 593 and 669.

And math keeps on ignoring or miss-reading everything I say. Do you agree with his observations of me in his 803? To me it feels like he went through my iso and looked for keywords he could use against me, but he got a lot of stuff so wrong I'm not even going to dignify it with a response.
And why is he starting a new wagon on Dierfire, which picks up a little bit of steam, then switches to another new wagon with now even less time left?
My flip won't prove mathblade's alignment in any way or form, I mostly hope that everyone sees math's case on me blows. I offer myself into a 1v1 because of how certain I am that he's scum.

[Masquerade]

@Masq

– You didn’t answer this the first time. Please do so in your next post.

I'm afraid I'm starting to get biased from pre-associations.

Please elaborate if this has to do with my slot predecessor or other games.

Oh wow this must be really important to you. I'm not elaborating because the condition you gave is false. Iow, it has nothing to do with you or your slot specifically.

[Masquerade]

I just really feel like Mathblade is looking for a viable wagon that isn't Johnny. I think Mathblade hoped Johnny would get lynched sooner and then that didn't happen and now he has to maintain his stance on Johnny as a townlean so try to start another wagon, but someone not too viable so finally we'll end up with either a Johnny-lynch anyway, or a no-lynch. Johnny is more likely town than scum in this scenario. I don't have a strong read on Johnny currently, I wish I had. I'm not opposed to lynching him but I'd rather keep fighting for a stronger scumread a little while longer.

@Mathblade: Why is Johnny a townlean again?

[Masquerade]

@Mathblade so what did you think of Magna's (I think it was magna, I'll quote it when I have more time if you need me to) assessment of Johnny's meta?

[Masquerade]

First of all, I had no time to check at the time but I distinctly remember someone saying something about Johnny's meta. I thought it was magna (I still do actually..) but he says it's not so it might take me a bit to find.

Please do. I looked in a hurry as I am getting ready for work at Magna's ISO by searching for the word "meta" in their ISO and none of those posts came up with a post about Johnny's meta.

Also are you going to answer 826? I find it completely hypocritical that you scum read me for "ignoring" posts I addressed and then ignore my numerous requests for your reads and now direct questions to you.

I skimmed over your wall and saw some misreps. You can try to read my iso again properly and then try again.
For one, I did not say I would have claimed sooner if I was scum, I said I expected scum to claim sooner than Karnos did. This is just one example of stuff you have misinterpreted, and I'm stuck on a scumread on you and there is nothing anyone can do this dayphase to change that. I will reevaluate after we've had flips.
Please go and worry about getting a lynch at all today, it's obvious that I'm not able to get a wagon going on you.

Now off to find that thing..

Oh, one more thing, I never took 510 as a crumb, but I suck at those. Why did you wait so long to bring it up?

[Masquerade]

As far as my willingness to switch my vote, that isn't something that could be manipulated by some power-role or nightkill. If the mathblade lynch doesn't happen, my vote isn't going to help anything by sitting on him. I can either move it to a viable lynch, or I can be part of the problem and potentially leave us with a no-lynch. It's essentially out of my control.

Eh how is that out of your control exactly?

[Masquerade]

@Mathblade (and Magna):

You've made more posts than any other player that replaced in near the same time as you, and yet you have far less actual content than anyone else.
I could write it off as playstyle, but my meta analysis makes it look pretty clear: you do usually have this style of many short posts, but usually you're moving towards something constructive with them. I can't see that here.

Sorry guysm I confused your names!

[Masquerade]

Thing is, I know my alignment and I read Pers, Mecha and Wingback as town (Pers less so currently) and those were the people to sheep me on Johnny the fastest. So for me that wagon doesn't feel scum motivated.

[Masquerade]

Hi Fire!

I think it's obvious he's talking about Johnny, math..

[Masquerade]

Throughout my iso.

[Masquerade]

Karnos.

[Masquerade]

Why do you want Fire to read you? If you're town, why do you want him to waste his time getting a townread on you when he should be figuring out whether to hammer Johnny or fire up a new wagon?
I'm not putting my reads into one post. Why did you stop voting me btw? Why is Magna a better wagon for you?

[Masquerade]

Are you reading my posts? Magna wasn't reading mine and just grasping at straws to try to say things were scummy. That is why they got the vote. So much lack of reading....

I'm reading them for the most part. I have issues concentrating so very long posts I just zone out no matter how much I want to read them. I didn't ask you why you voted Magna, I want to know why Magna is a better vote than me. The thing is, we're nearing deadline and you seem to be looking for a viable wagon. To me it seems useless to keep votehopping at this stage because it makes you look not certain of your read and that's how people don't join your preferred wagon.

@Mecha: A lot of people commented on Karnos so even though we're not lynching Karnos, reading him would be a help in determining other players' alignments, I agree it doesn't have to necessarily be before the lynch but if Fire wants to understand why people take certain stances it would definitely help.

This came completely out of the blue. Barely anyone has expressed any interest in lynching you and you are in no danger. On the other hand, Mathblade has attracted considerable suspicion as well as a wagon. Why would you want to flip rather than just lynch Mathblade? Why do you think seeing you flip town will suddenly cause everyone to lynch Mathblade when you could just as well be wrong? This looks like something that seems townie on the surface but doesn't really make sense in the context of this game so I want to know exactly what you were thinking here. I see you answered in Post 812 but I still don't get why you want to allow yourself to be lynched just to show that Math's case "blows."

Because I was sure that I wouldn't get lynched before mathblade. I wanted to show how sure I was of my read on him. + another reason I won't get into now.

[Masquerade]

@masquerade: At some point you said that there might be something suspicious in my ISO, but you would check to make sure. What were you looking for?

I don't remember, can you link the post where I said that?

I do NOT want to figure out who to lynch in the last hour. If Johny was a PR he should have claimed already so either he is scum or a vt, so lets lynch.
Here is my intent to hammer.
Does anyone have anything they *need* to say before nightfall?
I'm done and I'm getting bored with this. Either pick a goddamn wagon that has votes or stay on Johnny. THIS IS NOT HELPING US LNCH SCUM>

[Masquerade]

Actually, no. No. I'm not going to risk another unvote and end up with apathy and no flip.

VOTE: Johnny

[Masquerade]

Found it myself btw. Will get back to you on that tomorrow, am going to reread most players after we see Johnny flip.

I'm also going to read Qubixes, I think I saw something but I need to make sure if it fits. I'll let you know either way.

Thing is, I never got to rereading Qubixes because my attention was caught elsewhere (Karnos' claim, Johnny, Mathblade..)

[Masquerade]

Ok I read some posts after my hammer before I realized how many and big they became. I have never seen such activity after a hammer.
We had several extensions, this dayphase has gone on longer than usually is and should be the case. We do not need to use all the time provided but the way things were going I saw the following scenario happen: Last hour of the phase. Johnny still at L-1 (or maybe L-2) Suddenly everybody stops wanting to lynch Johnny and we have to rush another wagon and hope it will be hammered.
I wasn't going to wait for that to happen.
There was no progress being made as far as I could tell. Lynchtargets are being suggested but no new wagon was building up AT ALL. I admit, I panicked. But not because I was afraid because a hypothetical buddy is in the line of fire. If I wanted a misslynch I would have hammered Johnny when I had the first chance (assuming me scum and him town, that is)
I'm vt. I was 100% sure Mathblade is scum and I figured that if people ended up lynching me over Math it wouldn't be a horrible loss. That's the thing I didn't want to say earlier. Karnos can decide for himself who he wants to investigate. I don't object to it being me but he shouldn't announce it. If I really am town I will be able to show you that tomorrow through talking, if you then still want to lynch me, so be it. I'll be there to defend myself and scumhunt.

[Masquerade]

I think Qubixes is scum with Kappy. I'm having huge issues concentrating and having a really hard time explaining but just look at his iso in his first 400 posts. I can't remember what pinged me when I first read Qubixes' iso maybe it will come to me later, maybe not.

VOTE: Qubixes

Math: What do you want me to say about the flips? I didn't believe Johnny was scum when I hammered him and I had Wingback as a strong townread. They both flipped town which means my reads there were accurate. I agree with Fire that scum will likely kill pr-suspects or threats, not for framing. Why would scum kill Karnos' biggest defender? Because they really want Karnos mislynched. At least, that's my humble opinion.

[Masquerade]

I investigated persivul. No result. Either I got roleblocked, or persivul got jailed.

Mathblade, if Karnos was scum he would have talked about his result with his buddies. There are more reasons for Karnos' action to fail, yet he can only come up with 2 of the most common roles that mess with investigation. If Karnos had talked to scumbuddies, I'm sure more option would have come up, like commuter or hider or roles like that. But he didn't mention them. It also makes a lot of sense to me that Karnos picked Persivul to investigate.
And that's why I still think Karnos is town.

Johnny wasn't a townread. I just didn't believe he was scum. If Johnny was an actual townread, I would have tried harder to stop the lynch. Ffs just read my goddamn posts from when I first voted him to where I finally hammered him.
I wanted a flip. I was selfish. I assumed we would have a frantic last hour where we had to hastily put a wagon together. I have meta but sadly it's an ongoing game so I can't explain rn. Hopefully soon.

I already said I think Wingback was killed because scum want Karnos misslynched.

[Masquerade]

Also, when I'm scum I kill the players I can't mislynch. Wingback would fall into that category for me.

Math, everyone plays this game differently. We can speculate why scum killed someone, but as long as we don't have a scumflip it's going to be REALLY hard to figure it out for sure.

[Masquerade]

How about you make your own reads instead of depending on others?

[Masquerade]

Actually, I want to

VOTE: Magna

If Wingback was a threat to anyone, it was Magna.

[Masquerade]

How about you make your own reads instead of depending on others?

This account isn't made to do work.
I have karnos at null because all thats literally happened with him so far is talk about actions (at least today i think).

Yeah no I misinterpreted your post I think. I like you're being sort of critical and I think you're town rn.
The reason I'm townreading Karnos, and defended him yesterday, is because everything he explained checked out.
Karnos was townreading Persivul, then Pers flipped scum in another game, at which point Karnos got paranoid and voted Pers (and was awkward with explaining that calling it a fake vote) and I checked that other game and the timing checks out. And you of all people should understand, because you have been paranoid about me in the past after you townread me when I was scum.
What is your stance on this? Do you believe Karnos as scum would have thought to do this the same way? Do you believe Karnos would have gotten paranoid feelings from Pers flipping scum if he knew in this game what alignment he has (if Karnos is scum he knows Pers' alignment, unless this is multiball or we have a SK, but the single kill points to singleball rn)

[Masquerade]

What is your stance on this? Do you believe Karnos as scum would have thought to do this the same way? Do you believe Karnos would have gotten paranoid feelings from Pers flipping scum if he knew in this game what alignment he has (if Karnos is scum he knows Pers' alignment, unless this is multiball or we have a SK, but the single kill points to singleball rn)

What does this have to do with Persivul alignment? You suggesting multiball of Pers flipping different team? Huh?

If Karnos is scum, he knows whether Pers is town or scum, no? Unless this is multiball or if there is a SK. So there was no reason for Karnos as scum to be paranoid of Persivul. You answered the question anyway:

I don't know if he would or wouldn't, all I could do is put myself in his shoes and say what I would do, and its likely not claim a PR unless my ass was really on the line. My first thoughts wouldn't be Neopolitian cause I have seen town get lynched with that claim and I don't think its even a good role. I can't say what Kranos would do though cause I don't know how he operates as far as play style. His posts seem simplistic in style and in tone. Maybe its a facade but he doesn't seem like some master planner, unless his hypothetical teammates are, even so its some weird lies.

Meh, I don't think mathblade is on the target with it. I can tell by logic used by math its forced and its just self serving the bias had before with a previous read.
I would like to hear more about it, but that's my thoughts so far without doing ISO of Kranos.

I don't take Karnos as a master planner either, I don't think Karnos would have come up with using his other game that just ended like that if he didn't feel real paranoia. But I also don't see him as a bad player. Only experience I have with him is a multiball where we were on opposing scumteams. My buddy was lynched D1, I killed Karnos' buddy N1, town lynched me D2, and then I think they lynched Karnos D4. So I wouldn't call him a bad player, but I don't think he'll be making very complex plans.

[Masquerade]

I’m whelmed by karnos’s results.

Whelmed. So you're neutral then?
I actually think Karnos' pick made sense..
What is your read on Qubixes?

[Masquerade]

@Pers. 1 Unless they are afraid a more common role is already in the game. They would be cc'ed. So in a closed setup a less common role is safer to claim.
2 Completely agree and that's exactly what I would do if I were scum as well (and have done)
3 Yes, but thanks for spoonfeeding that to Karnos. I mean, I'm pretty sure he's town but I'm also aware that I could be wrong. Besides that, other players are not convinced of Karnos being town so they kind of need a genuine answer from Karnos.

[Masquerade]

Addition to 1: It's possible scum have roles and claim that or something similar thinking it won't be in the game because of their own roles.

[Masquerade]

Where am I attacking Karnos?

[Masquerade]

Qubixes, yes, my hammer was bad. It was selfish. I was afraid we were going to end up no-lynching and took matters into my own hands and hammered while I still had the chance. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sorry but it happened, we can't change it. So if you scumread me for it you go and push me and make a case on me. And if not then just stfu and accept that it happened.

[Masquerade]

Oh, new page..

[Masquerade]

@Mod

I need to go on V/LA for a week because I'm co-modding this game and coming week it's all me and it needs 2 extensive updates a day. If this is an issue, replace me.

@Mathblade: Read my posts again. We are disagreeing. I will not give you the satisfaction of changing my opinion because you give yourself brain damage from hitting your head into walls. All the points you keep bringing up about Karnos I have already refuted. Stop it. WE ARE NOT LYNCHING KARNOS.

[Masquerade]

Math: What do you want me to say about the flips? I didn't believe Johnny was scum when I hammered him and I had Wingback as a strong townread. They both flipped town which means

my reads there were accurate

. I agree with Fire that scum will likely kill pr-suspects or threats, not for framing. Why would scum kill Karnos' biggest defender? Because they really want Karnos mislynched. At least, that's my humble opinion.

1 @Masquerade: This was the reason I thought you had Johnny as town. Why would you say your reads are accurate when you had them as null+town? I mean I guess you were right on one flip. Why bother calling your reads accurate anyway? Does your opinion becomes more important because of it?

Qubixes, yes, my hammer was bad. It was selfish. I was afraid we were going to end up no-lynching and took matters into my own hands and hammered while I still had the chance. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sorry but it happened, we can't change it. So if you scumread me for it you go and push me and make a case on me. And if not then just stfu and accept that it happened.

2 Where did this come from? Because I said that out of the three (Karnos, Saru, you) I would be surprised if all of them flipped town? Out of the three I think you're the least likely to flip scum at the moment, so there's that. I'm just kind of wondering why it triggered you though, since I wasn't bringing it up to say Masq is so very scummy. I just wanted to explain why I thought it was (very) unlikely that Johnny would flip scum.

3 What do you think about Saru?

1 Weak town, not strong town. Weak enough to hammer, not strong enough to defend. How is that not understandable?
2 Because you keep finding ways to remind people that I made a bad hammer, but you don't push me about it directly. That makes me think you are scum that wants my misslynch but is too much of a pussy to push for it himself.
3 Saru is probably town.

[Masquerade]

The thing that seems to be the most confusing though is how I don't mean someone is a strong townread worthy of defense when being lynched, when I say I don't scumread them.

[Masquerade]

The thing that seems to be the most confusing though is how I don't mean someone is a strong townread worthy of defense when being lynched, when I say I don't scumread them.

I don't think that is particularly confusing.

Though it isn't really what happened here, is it?

Nobody accused you because of not defending Johnny. But we're getting back to the original point of hammering a weak town read, which you already explained and I expressed my opinion on.

I'm sorry but I have no idea what you mean with the line I bolded^

[Masquerade]

Yeah I get it's confusing that way. Johnny's meta made me think he was scum, Johnny's attitude made me think he was town. I was going back and forth on him and he wasn't the player I wanted to lynch. I just wanted a flip and I figured that plenty players had given their opinion on Johnny and I was afraid that if we had to go for a hasty compromise lynch people would just jump on with naked votes "for the flip" and then we can't read people. Now at least we can look back and interpret the reads that were made.
Basically I have not been able to keep my story straight, why aren't you all over me?

[Masquerade]

Mathblade, I want you to go over my posts and explain to me every single point I made in Karnos' defense how that was based on site meta.

[Masquerade]

"Everything checks out" is site meta. The Persuvial day one bullshit was nothing more than scum lying. You are literally warping what Karnos did to fit town rather than what they actually did. Everything checks out is "I am too lazy to analyze so are the obviously lying" if not move on.

No it isn't. Karnos said Pers flipped. I checked. There was an hour between Pers flipping and Karnos voting him. So that checks out. It has nothing to do with 'site meta' and everything to do with 'unbiased evidence available as public information on site'.

[Masquerade]

Have to hunt*

@Mod

I need to go on V/LA for a week because I'm co-modding this game and coming week it's all me and it needs 2 extensive updates a day. If this is an issue, replace me.

@Mathblade: Read my posts again. We are disagreeing. I will not give you the satisfaction of changing my opinion because you give yourself brain damage from hitting your head into walls. All the points you keep bringing up about Karnos I have already refuted. Stop it. WE ARE NOT LYNCHING KARNOS.

:/ *dies a little inside*

Damn it. This is a repeat of day fucking one all over again.

You were responsible for the clusterfuck at the end of day one. You and Quibixes with that weird vote shit. I figure if we can't lynch obvious scum who isn't even giving goddamn reads I might as well start poking the beasts defending those reads, that started what was clearly a counter wagon, had a really bad hammer, and by their own admission can't keep their story straight.

Masquerade may be bussing Quibixes. When they were "pressuring" me they repeated the same damn point 10 (not an exact count) times. Here it looks like they are actually putting in a god damn effort. Furthermore you haven't refuted my points, you have dismissed them. How about instead of saying we are not lynching Karnos explain why someone who just OMGUS's me and doesn't post reads, mason hunts, PR hunts, votes town reads, is contradictory the shit out of day one doesn't lie.

Look at how little Masquerade and Quibixes interact D1. It is like they don't have to figure out each other.

Spiritual vote Masquerade

Spiritual vote Quibixes

^^This is where I would look besides Karnos but I want someone besides a scumread to say we aren't going there.

Isn;t it enough that nobody is sheeping you on Karnos?

[Masquerade]

What is your stance on this? Do you believe Karnos as scum would have thought to do this the same way? Do you believe Karnos would have gotten paranoid feelings from Pers flipping scum if he knew in this game what alignment he has (if Karnos is scum he knows Pers' alignment, unless this is multiball or we have a SK, but the single kill points to singleball rn)

What does this have to do with Persivul alignment? You suggesting multiball of Pers flipping different team? Huh?

If Karnos is scum, he knows whether Pers is town or scum, no? Unless this is multiball or if there is a SK. So there was no reason for Karnos as scum to be paranoid of Persivul. You answered the question anyway:

I don't know if he would or wouldn't, all I could do is put myself in his shoes and say what I would do, and its likely not claim a PR unless my ass was really on the line. My first thoughts wouldn't be Neopolitian cause I have seen town get lynched with that claim and I don't think its even a good role. I can't say what Kranos would do though cause I don't know how he operates as far as play style. His posts seem simplistic in style and in tone. Maybe its a facade but he doesn't seem like some master planner, unless his hypothetical teammates are, even so its some weird lies.

Meh, I don't think mathblade is on the target with it. I can tell by logic used by math its forced and its just self serving the bias had before with a previous read.
I would like to hear more about it, but that's my thoughts so far without doing ISO of Kranos.

I don't take Karnos as a master planner either, I don't think Karnos would have come up with using his other game that just ended like that if he didn't feel real paranoia. But I also don't see him as a bad player. Only experience I have with him is a multiball where we were on opposing scumteams. My buddy was lynched D1, I killed Karnos' buddy N1, town lynched me D2, and then I think they lynched Karnos D4. So I wouldn't call him a bad player, but I don't think he'll be making very complex plans.

Don't take Karnos to be a master planner. Okay that is a read. However this point is fundamentally flawed as Karnos wouldn't have to be. Scum have daychat as was pointed out in the thread. So this point is a non point. Unless you are arguing that scum are ignoring daychat.

No he would not. Do you think before every post Karnos makes he's going to have a chat with his buddies first?

[Masquerade]

That is what you did there and it is lazy.

I never said I wasn't lazy. Is that alignment indicative?

[Masquerade]

Actually, I want to

VOTE: Magna

If Wingback was a threat to anyone, it was Magna.

Off topic -- What happened to this huh? Ever gonna fucking explain? I can understand misplaced shade on me based on Wingback's post but where do you get Magna?

Why, thanks for asking! Wingbacks iso. Check it.

[Masquerade]

EBWORp

What is your stance on this? Do you believe Karnos as scum would have thought to do this the same way? Do you believe Karnos would have gotten paranoid feelings from Pers flipping scum if he knew in this game what alignment he has (if Karnos is scum he knows Pers' alignment, unless this is multiball or we have a SK, but the single kill points to singleball rn)

What does this have to do with Persivul alignment? You suggesting multiball of Pers flipping different team? Huh?

If Karnos is scum, he knows whether Pers is town or scum, no? Unless this is multiball or if there is a SK. So there was no reason for Karnos as scum to be paranoid of Persivul. You answered the question anyway:

I don't know if he would or wouldn't, all I could do is put myself in his shoes and say what I would do, and its likely not claim a PR unless my ass was really on the line. My first thoughts wouldn't be Neopolitian cause I have seen town get lynched with that claim and I don't think its even a good role. I can't say what Kranos would do though cause I don't know how he operates as far as play style. His posts seem simplistic in style and in tone. Maybe its a facade but he doesn't seem like some master planner, unless his hypothetical teammates are, even so its some weird lies.

Meh, I don't think mathblade is on the target with it. I can tell by logic used by math its forced and its just self serving the bias had before with a previous read.
I would like to hear more about it, but that's my thoughts so far without doing ISO of Kranos.

I don't take Karnos as a master planner either, I don't think Karnos would have come up with using his other game that just ended like that if he didn't feel real paranoia. But I also don't see him as a bad player. Only experience I have with him is a multiball where we were on opposing scumteams. My buddy was lynched D1, I killed Karnos' buddy N1, town lynched me D2, and then I think they lynched Karnos D4. So I wouldn't call him a bad player, but I don't think he'll be making very complex plans.

Don't take Karnos to be a master planner. Okay that is a read. However this point is fundamentally flawed as Karnos wouldn't have to be. Scum have daychat as was pointed out in the thread. So this point is a non point. Unless you are arguing that scum are ignoring daychat.

No he would not. Do you think before every post Karnos makes he's going to have a chat with his buddies first?

No he would not need to be a master planner.

[Masquerade]

The purpose of claiming was a last fail safe. A last ditch effort to see if the scumminess seen matches the role claimed.For example if it was a lurker lynch or someone just dropping a vote on a person they would have to claim a cop or a tracker or something with an investigative role.

Why didn't lurker scum adapt and start claiming an investigative role to avoid lynch?

However if you were loud and tunnely and scum read and you didn't claim VT or BP then you got lynched.

Why didn't loud tunnely scum adapt and start claiming VT or BP to avoid lynch?

About this.. Mathblade, what if a player has a general scummy playstyle?

[Masquerade]

Well actually, math, I kind of changed my mind about you during the night and don't think you're scum anymore just an idiot in a tunnel with the lights off, because I realized that all your reads were based on this one read you have on Karnos and that's something I think of as being towny. I have a tendency to not share my reads completely because I don't want scum to piggyback off them, especially pretty early or very late in the phase. Also, I don't do walls because, again, I have trouble concentrating so if I write a lot I forget what I was on about. I know that's not a good thing to have when playing mafia, that's why I make short posts and focus on max 3 people at a time. That's also why I completely forgot about Qubixes, because of the whole ordeal with Karnos and then Johnny meanwhile you being a frustrated ass.

[Masquerade]

When I read Magna's posts I got a really strong feeling of him pushing an agenda. What Mecha just pointed out is part of the reason why I think Wingback was killed.

[Masquerade]

I should probably dig into Magna's iso and also whom he replaced to make a case or something.. I'll try for a bit tonight.

[Masquerade]

Noticed something in my re-read, something that stood out and is a bit more interesting to me than the constant noise from Mathblade.

Masquerade has been someone I have avoided looking at too closely. Admittedly, I thought he might be scum in the same way I thought Wingback might be scum, but I'd just be reiterating the same argument, scum trying to buddy up to town pre-flip to build cred. At the time when I was at L-2 to L-1, I felt my situation was pretty delicate, and I didn't want to kick the hornets nest so to speak, and cause him to turn on me and hammer me before I could claim and have some discussion. (I came out against Wingback as potential scum, but I almost immediately regret that decision because I realized if he was indeed scum he could quickly counter my argument by simply lynching me. ) This was compounded with the fact that it was just a thought of a possibility, not a serious feeling that he was scum, and I wanted to remain focused on what I thought was the most obvious scum in the game at the time, Mathblade.

The recent trend of multiple huge wall posts every day by Mathblade distracted me for a time, and didn't even think about bringing Masquerades buddying as a scum tell, but upon my last re-read I noticed something odd about this post:

Only experience I have with him is a multiball where we were on opposing scumteams. My buddy was lynched D1, I killed Karnos' buddy N1, town lynched me D2, and then I think they lynched Karnos D4. So I wouldn't call him a bad player, but I don't think he'll be making very complex plans.

The game in question:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=975

I wasn't lynched D4. Certainly not trying to brag, really it came down to a coin-flip decision, but I went to endgame and won as scum. Why is Masquerade downplaying my scum game? I just can't fathom a reason. Yet he was there, posting in the game thread after it was all over, I just don't see how him being unaware that the game ended with a scum win.

Masquerade, whats your deal?

VOTE: Masquerade

Oh really? Then I remembered it wrong that's so stupid lol.
But do you really think that's alignment indicative?

[Masquerade]

Still rereading

it is a bit of a slog with all the walls

to get through. Going to respond to recent posts and then get back to that tomorrow after work.

Ya think?

[Masquerade]

Oh really? Then I remembered it wrong that's so stupid lol.
But do you really think that's alignment indicative?

I am not sure. But if it was important enough to bring it up in a post, my thinking is it would be important enough to click the "view your posts" link and take 10 seconds to read the game ending. You also posted something about being lazy. Is the error due to laziness, or is the error intentional and the lazy comment was to allow for plausible deniability if your error was realized.

I just don't know, I want to get some other opinions on the situation.

Well, if you must know, I'm depressed so that makes me sometimes not want to think too much. Ok? Thank you.
I was inaccurate, yes, I remembered that game having a townwin, I'm sorry I messed up. I didn't think it was important enough to actually check.

Mod, replace me out. I cannot deal with this without at some point crossing some line and scaring people.

[Masquerade]

Never mind, mod. I will give myself another 24 hours to cool down. I came home from an appointment that has me in shambles.

I'll be back later.

[Masquerade]

@Karnos, and everyone else, I'm sorry for lashing out earlier. I shouldn't have come in feeling the way I did, I'm going to make sure this won't happen again.

[Masquerade]

I;ve been going over Magna's iso and what stands out to me is him wanting Karnos to out his reads. But then I think, that actually might be a good idea because it forces scum to kill conftowns. But Magna wants Karnos to claim every day while it's not a good idea to claim not vanilla because scum will know whether they are scum.
I didn't like how Magna didn't give his opinion on Karnos' claim during his catch up, he went straight on to Johnny's wagon falling apart. It feels to me like he was moving in to voting Karnos all during his catch-up but once he gets to the point where Karnos claims it's all about not lynching an uncc'ed pr. Never mentions scumreading Karnos again, but in later posts it is visible the scumread is still there I think.
I'm not sure anymore of my read here. Gonna reread some other stuff. Not sure how I feel about the votes on Mathblade, it's a wagon that I was pushing yesterday, I'm gonna go see how the votes today match up to the reactions yesterday.

UNVOTE:

[Masquerade]

Math's posts sound so different since Titus joined..

Fire, thanks <3 and Math thank you too.

I overslept and have to go, will be here tonight to read some more isos.

[Masquerade]

Work again. Be on later.

@Masquerade -- ...Got some reasons with that shade or are you doing the same thing I mentioned earlier...again?

@Karnos -- It will be clear to everyone else that you have a scum role PM one of these days. There is no reason to egg me on like this if you are town. I am hunting for your likely partners in the interest of group cohesion. You seem to have no interest in doing so and are not even trying to figure out the game.

*repeat after me*
Math will not get sucked into the Karnos hole.
Math will not get sucked into the Karnos hole.
Math....

Remind what 'that same thing' is please.
I think it's mostly that I read your posts with a female voice now. It wasn't meant as shade but as an observation that I was thinking about, but I can see how it could be seen as shade.
Do you think it's a good idea to go buddy-hunting when we haven't had a scumflip yet?

@Karnos: Why do you think scum would lie at all about verifiable information, like a game everyone can read? Have you asked yourself that when you thought I was lying about something to buddy you?

Gonna start rereads in a couple of hours. Mathblade and Mecha have priority for me rn. I'm still a bit bothered by how he responded when I said scum have daytalk, like he was testing the waters to see if anyone else wanted to wagon me for knowing that. He was too careful, while Kappy just outright voted me. While I still think Kappy's response was opportunistic, I think Mecha's reaction was much scummier. Titus hasn't done enough yet to redeem that slot fully, but rn I don't think Math is scum so will see how I feel after rereading. I had Mecha as a townread at the end of Day 1 because of his reactions to my hammer, but those can be faked so again, will see how I feel upon reread.

[Masquerade]

If you don't think I am scum why am I your focus?

Because you are the leading wagon and I want to improve my reads before I either try to prevent your lynch or contribute to it.
So yesterday I read you as scum for trying to get a new wagon going when Johnny was wagoned, and when Johnny flipped town that kind of countered that theory. I had to reassess my read on you and figured that because everything seemed to come from one read and it was consistent, you were probably town stuck in a tunnel. But just now I remembered that tunneling is also a scum-tactic.
Anyway, I'm going to check if your iso is as consistent as I think it is.

[Masquerade]

Turns out I missed 585 several times. Probably scrolled through too fast, this time I took more care. I understand what Math is trying to say regarding Karnos and I'm starting to lean towards lynching him. I mean, the reason he gave for voting me was really strange. Why would anyone lie about something that's so easy to check? And looking back at his 1136 it's atrocious. He is simultaneously giving a reason for his votes not matching his reads (having me as townread because Math is a scumread but then voting me oh I'll just quote it

You aren't wrong about one thing, I did think Masq was likely town based on Mathblade being scum, and I do still think MathBlade is scum. But I try to be realistic, my scum reads aren't actually going to flip scum 100% of the time, and my scum reads aren't going anywhere without support from other town. I'm trying to avoid tunneling, and this particular comment from Masq really stuck out to me.

I disagree on your summary, this is about the opposite of confirmation bias. Confirmation bias would be ignoring anything that doesn't support my preexisting "MathBlade is scum" argument.

So he's now scumreading both Math and me while Math just had this push on me and not a word about that. What was it Karnos? Was Math bussing me there? Was I bussing Math yesterday? It just really looks like he isn't trying, I can't not agree with Math about this anymore.

Yeah, I'm going there.
VOTE: Karnos

More rereads to come soon. Kinda tired now, might try another one before bed but it's already pretty late so not likely.

[Masquerade]

@Magna: I reread Mecha around twilight and in 2 posts he goes from not great but understandable hammer to all kinds of bad hammer. My Mecha-read today comes from his scummy response to my knowing about scum daytalk.
Mecha not wanting to vote Karnos today because people have bad reasons for scumreading him looks weird because yesterday for a long time he was scumreading Karnos. What's changed?

So who do you think is in best position to call a wagon on Town bad? That’s classic scum 101 “Claw for Towncred on a Mislynch” play.

Sorry what?

I still keep getting the feeling Magna is manipulating me..

Keeping my vote on Karnos. As long as he keeps throwing stuff around to see what sticks and not committing to a read 'because I know I'm not even 50% accurate' he deserves it. Also, how is Johnny not a scumread for defending you and Wingback and me to a lesser extent were?

JohnnyFarrar: I really don't see the scum read here, but

maybe I'm being bias because he defended me to a degree.

He can't keep using the "busy" excuse forever, especially as we approach the end of the game day. null/town

I also still find it weird you would scumread me today on one ping. How does that warrant an immediate vote when I was a townread at the end of Day 1?

Spoiler: Karnos progression

Readlist: I know, it was intentional. I don't have a strong read on you [Masq]. Your slot was absent for a long time before you replaced in, so I don't have a strong read for it prior to you either. However, see my read of wingback - the same logic *could* apply here, but you have been more subtle and less confident so I don't think it's nearly as likely that you could be a scum going for town cred.

Masquerade: Was mostly a null read, but the recent interactions with Mathblade moves him to

a solid town read. My sense is that masq and mathblade couldn't be same alignment.

Mathblade: See above. I am in the minority here though, and I am will to switch votes to prevent a no-lynch, but would much prefer to just lynch mathblade. scum

Wow, I wasn't expecting that so quickly.

Lets hope for a scum flip!

Anyway, if anyone wants to shoot out an investigation suggestions I will take them into consideration, though I have a person in mind already.

No apparent issues with my vote, he shouldn't have as he just stated intent himself and when someone unvoted had placed his vote for L-1.
1102 is where he votes me today.

To be clear, Mathblade is still scum. I'll revote him upon request. What I noticed from masquerade demands a vote.

[Masquerade]

If Karnos is scum I see a good chance for Magna being scum as well. He came in after Karnos claimed, he could have easily caught up knowing he would have an 'out' I'm not saying this happened, but it is a possibility. He completely discarded his scumread on Karnos and doesn't take a stance on the claim other than 'we don't lynch uncc'ed pr's in a closed setup'
I have scumreads on people that logically can't be scum together, like for instance Magna/Mecha (I don't think they can be scum together based on their communication, but both have said/done very questionable things.) and that makes me lean towards multiball. We only had one kill but there are several options for it, and I also remember one time playing a multiball where 1 of the scumfactions didn't have a factional kill.

Also, 1253 looks like an afterthought as if you just realized you were not supposed to townread me. Which it looks like you do in 1251. Why can't I be buddying you btw?
And no, I am not pushing Karnos with the intent to get you riled up again. I just can't see his recent posting coming from a town-mindset (if I was a townread why does he immediately assume I'm lying instead of first asking me?) and that made me agree with you about how we shouldn't just disregard scummy behaviour after a claim.

Gonna continue isoreads and see if I can make sense of my thoughts and get some decent reads.

I don't know yet about Dierfire, Titus. I mean, he could be scum but that conflicts with other reads I have so I want to do a reread first. Can you give your opinion on what I'm pushing Karnos for? I think I made it pretty concise in my previous post and here even more. This goes for others as well, I would like some feedback to help improve my reads overall.

[Masquerade]

Excuse me?

VOTE: Mecha

Where do we know there is 3 scum?

[Masquerade]

Oh for crying out loud, I reread that post like a dozen times to make sure I got that right :/

Ok, dude, Mecha, we started with 13 players. It's perfectly possible to be multiball. Why would there be an uneven number of scum?

[Masquerade]

UNVOTE:

I don;t know anymore and I don't care anymore. Tell me who to lynch.
Not Math.

[Masquerade]

I meant I don't want to vote you today. I don't really want your opinion either because I know it's all based on a Karnos-scumread. If you're wrong about Karnos, all your reads need reevaluating. Therefor I can't trust your reads.
I can't read Dierfire so I can't base any opinions based on other players' reads on him which sucks tremendously.
I have reasons for believing Magna is scum, and I have reasons for believing Mecha is scum, the tone in their posts makes me pretty sure they are not scum together. So that's massively conflicting.
And now I am frustrated. I'm stuck and I can reread all the stuff I want but it;s not helping me clear up the above.

[Masquerade]

VOTE: Karnos
I want clarity on this slot.

[Masquerade]

I can do Magna too because I still don't like the way he handled Karnos' claim and he feels manipulative and if anyone wants to talk to me about it please go ahead. Especially if you don't agree.

[Masquerade]

Yeah sure this can be scum

VOTE: Dierfire

[Masquerade]

Well I skimmed most of his iso but what stood out is that he was scumreading Mizzy when she wasn't posting anymore but before I replaced her, and after I came in Dier hasn't been able to commit to a read on me anymore. Other than that he's mostly been picking at inactive players and today he scumreads Saru but votes the bigger wagon. In a nutshell.
I also still think Magna could be scum, but I should reread him again because I forget what he said about Dierfire.
So I checked and there is no read.

Magna, what's your read on Dierfire?

[Masquerade]

Because I haven't been focussing on Dierfire lately.

[Masquerade]

Because I was focusing on other people and I can only do so much at a time.

[Masquerade]

When why not ever talk to Dierfire? Focus I understand. But never asking a single question except one you don't follow on and not taking a stand needs more explanation.

Did I? Completely forgot about that.
I have concentration issues.

[Masquerade]

I think the scum are Dierfire, Karnos and Magna currently.
I don't do tiered readslists like ever.

[Masquerade]

I think the scum are Dierfire, Karnos and Magna currently.
I don't do tiered readslists like ever.

I agree with 2 of those 3. Why are you reading Magna as scum again? I would look back at your ISO for reasons, but I honestly can't follow most of it. So if you could lay them out for me all at once, that'd be great.

I feel manipulated by him.
He hasn't posted any kind of read on Dierfire, but I did see a little bit of defending him in the form of attacking his accuser (Math)
He had a whole read progression on Karnos which was entirely dropped when Karnos claimed (Magna replaced in after the claim happened) and refuses to consider lynching him because we shouldn't lynch a uncc'ed pr. IIoA.
He pushed Johnny's lynch p hard, even while Dierfire came up as possible scum end of Day 1 and kept pushing Johnny and never gave any kind of opinion on Dierfire, as if he just wanted that misslynch to happen.

[Masquerade]

Also, he seems to townread me without question.

[Masquerade]

@Saru
Anything that Magna directed to me.
Isn't null the definition of not having a read?
He never tried to improve his read on Dierfire when that wagon came up yesterday and today.

[Masquerade]

Would rather you gave some thoughts as your slot has been empty for quite some time.

Hi, btw

[Masquerade]

We've already established my hammer was all sorts of awful, but still town. Now unvote and go scumhunt. If you need a place to start, go look at the players with the most votes currently. That would be Dierfire and Math.

[Masquerade]

I'm going to be so annoyed if Math and Mecha turn out to be scum because they were gutreads already and then I get influenced by words and overthink everything and do stupid things like lynch town :/

I don't want a quicklynch but I'm fine with either Math or Mecha rn.

[Masquerade]

I dunno but that response to Karnos hammering looked a suspicious amount like you knew Dier was gonna flip town, Math.

[Masquerade]

@Math oh I just checked and it wasn't after hammer but before. I meant the post that Karnos quoted on the previous page anyway.

Ye sure, Math, Mecha and Titus.

VOTE: Math

[Masquerade]

I dunno but I believe Math has the bigger wagon. Math also has bigger influence on me so for me personally I want her gone first.

[Masquerade]

Wtf? My eyes are bleeding.

Yeah I'm prolly wrong because somehow I know you don't bus.

[Masquerade]

O just don't feel like putting in an effort anymore. When I do my reads are wrong. And Karnos confirmed me. So whatever. Just don't lynch me.

[Masquerade]

O = I*

[Masquerade]

There's no reason for scum Karnos to confirm me. Maybe if we were scum together but I know my role pm and I'm not scum so Karnos and I aren;t scum together so Karnos is town.
Math could have jumped on Karnos yesterday, I'm not doing it today. Too late. Too obvious. Scum.

[Masquerade]

Ok I'd like to talk about Kapy just jumping on me when I knew about scum daychat and I also want to talk about Mecha acting awkward around it as if he was asking what others thought before he was jumping. I brought this up before. I want some serious responses. If you don;t believe I'm a vt you can lynch me or Karnos, otherwise start talking to me.

[Masquerade]

UNVOTE:

I wanna talk about Kappy and Mecha because I don't know them and maybe someone does and give me a decent pov on it. I think Mecha is more suspicious because of how he did and would think town is more likely to just jump in and out like Kappy did (who is Titus now, and Titus, feel free to weigh in with your opinion)

[Masquerade]

I don't know, but why would Persivul replace out as scum? I kinda see his replace out as frustrated town that just doesn't want to deal anymore.. I felt he was p towny early game, his inactivity is NAI and really shouldn't change that. Unless he was scum with Karnos and fed up with him or something, but since I no longer believe Karnos is scum I can say with fair certainty I think Pers-slot, dwlee that is, is town.

[Masquerade]

I have no opinion on Fire but I remember having some sort of opinion on his slot while I was reading early game. I should refresh my memory.

[Masquerade]

I need sleep. Will continue thinking tomorrow.

[Masquerade]

No Math. I wa pushing Karnos yesterday and you wouldn't jump on because you thought I was scum too so you'd rather not lynch scum then lynch scum pushed by a scumread?
Can we just vote this scum?

[Masquerade]

No Math. I wa pushing Karnos yesterday and you wouldn't jump on because you thought I was scum too so you'd rather not lynch scum than lynch scum pushed by a scumread?
Can we just vote this scum?

ebwor

[Masquerade]

UNVOTE:

I'll just sheep. There are too many walls and I cannot process that information. I will not be able to play decently as long as people (mostly math and magna) keep posting huge walls instead of being more to the point. I'm done.

[Masquerade]

I hereby vow that I am NEVER going to explain my reads again. I would have pushed scum if I didn't let myself get influenced.

GG