Mini 1755: Game Over

[Golden Robster]

Hello folks, I'll be replacing Deus Asmoth. *bows*

[Golden Robster]

Welcome, Golden. Can you please provide your thoughts asap, as we have about 5 days remaining. I personally want to know your reads on AI, Droog, Boon, pisskop, Keys, Rask. Thoughts on other players would be nice as well.

Spoiler:

01. pisskop

- From the ISO's, most of his earlier statements were not substance worthy and more like banter/personal attacks e.g #48, #99. I'm unsure of whether or not this is his style of playing but nonetheless, it's not useful.
- Interestingly, at one point he votes himself. #100. Self-resignation? Creating a negative view(maybe that is what he wants) but regardless, my current view of him is definitely leaning towards scum/null. I'd be surprised if anybody ACTUALLY thought he was a town member with that post. Maybe that is just his style, idk.
- This conflict between PK and AI is quite interesting. Need to look further into that and I'll post my observations about it later.
- Interesting, #478. Thinks that AI/Droog is where we should be lynching.
- #501, accuses AI of dodging questions. Need to look over that argument.

RVS vote on AI ---> switches to Droog

02. Boonskiies

- Has not said anything. Null for now. Lurker?

03. Performer

- #13. Reinforces the oddness of the question that Axle asked Keyser. Indeed, I'm also quite suspicious of that question. Why post it on the forum when a private message would equally do the same job? Surely Axle would know that it would be scrutinised?
- #119. Again, questions the oddity of the question and the fabrication of it.
- #121. Says that Key is up to her charming town methods, that UTL appears different and states that he is not certain about Massive.
- #247. Reads are posted here. Claims Keys, UTL and Ircher are town. Scummy people are Massive and Rask. Reasons are stated in the post.

No RVS vote. Votes Axel ---> Switches to Ras for looking scummier than Axel ---> Unvotes, and then switches to Droog

04. UpTooLate

- The post that gave town leading read on her was this one. #124. She breaks down and analyses what has been going. She states concisely that AI jumped onto the PK wagon and Keyser sheeps. PK at this point gives up, self-votes and Ircher wants to lynch him on his bad attitude.
- Analysis and summary of what happened. PK has had no post with substance other than one or two maybe, maybe he wanted to see the reaction of town? She explains that we're put in a bad situation if we PL him and flips town, or we leave him and he continues with the lack of substance.
- Agree with the idea that we're put in a bad spot if we PL him and he does flip town? What then?

No RVS vote ----> Votes Ircher.

05. droog

- #294. Likes the post that Key said about the question that Axel asked was null-indicative which I disagree. Surely he knew that it would be under scrutiny and that the mafia/scum would latch onto it.
- #299. Claims Ircher looks scummy; the only thing stopping him from voting is that Ircher is new.
- #306. VERY INTERESTING POST. I LIKE IT. Talks about how UTL could be trying to look town with #124 and could be in fact scum. Then again, it could be absolutely possible that she is in fact townie but anyways, I'll delve more into that once one of you flips.
- #390. "Everything performer has said on this page is townie"
- #432. Disagrees with Ircher's post about lynching targets for D1. Looking into that later.
- #449. Accuses AI of defending Irchir and "white-knighting" him. Looking into this later, good point made though.
- #450. Similar reads here.

No RVS vote ---> Votes pisskop ---> Votes Irchir --->

06. AxleGreaser

- The question on#7 was so weird to ask. Couldn't you have sent a private message instead? Wouldn't you have known that it would be under scrutiny?
- Or maybe, he purposely asked the question in order to gain an idea of which scummy person would latch onto the Axle wagon. (mindgames)
- More to come.

RVS vote on Burning_Earth --> Changed to Ircher ---> Changed to Raskolnikov

Doing these guys later, too tired right now.

07. massive
09. Raskolnikov
10. Keyser Söze
11. AlwaysInnocent
12. Ircher
13. Heat

[Golden Robster]

odd that you like 306
now that ive discarded my utl read

want to add that the question pk asked
that ai 'dodged'
was a request about why there was a scumread
which ai has answered many times now

I liked 306 because I didn't realise it myself. You clearly stated that it could be an act that she was trying to pull when I got sucked into the fluidity of her argument.

Thanks for telling me about the question that he answered, looking over it now.

[Golden Robster]

Again with the votes on Ircher. Stop voting for obvious town.

Why is he obvious town?

[Golden Robster]

Again with the votes on Ircher. Stop voting for obvious town.

Why is he obvious town?

Like I explained before, this is exactly his town game from Newbie 1666.

{Ras, Droog, Heat} --> Mafia
{Boon} --> SK if there is one.

What do you think about his reads?

[Golden Robster]

Read List D1 V3

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher, Keyser}

{Deus}

{Performer}

{Lilac, Massive, Burning_Earth}

{Axle, Heat}

{UpTooLate, Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop}

You state in your reads that Pisskop is your scummiest read. I agree that some of his posts were indeed strange, but the self-vote changed my view about him.

Why would he do that as scum? What would he be trying to accomplish in doing so? Gaining townrep by doing so? Nuh-uh. Doesn't make sense. Policy lynch has been brought up a couple of times and UTL has stated that it doesn't help town both ways if he is alive/dead.

Not much interaction between UTL and PK apart from one post from UTL commenting and analysing the PK wagon early on. (Need to look at this)

Also, UTL has been questioning a lot of Ircher's passiveness at wanting a PL rather than showing initiative and doing so.

And you've got UTL on leaning to scum and PK on scum. If we do PL him and he does indeed flip scum, then you're moving up to town in my reads. No way you've been bussing him for that long & if your meta read on Ircher is half-decent, then droog might be half-suspicious.

I'm quite interested as to why Ircher believes that PK isn't scum.

[Golden Robster]

Personally, I'm against the following lynches for D1:

{AI, Heat, Keyser, Ircher, Axle, Droog, Pisskop}

Why shouldn't we lynch Heat? What do you think he's done to stand out as a town?

Spoiler:

I want to lynch AI today.

Hes been avoiding questions all week, and is trying to

push me

based on stupid shit he can't even prove (how tf am I being opportunistic this game?) and I hate how he defends ircher

I've only skimmed the parts I missed but those are my thoughts atm.

Why would scum self-vote? What would they hope to gain from it?

1. I think there's a misunderstanding between Heat and me.

The reason why I sugget PL Pisskop was because he was unpleasant and self-voted

. As explained in my first game here, self-voting is objectively bad and

good evidence of scum

. I did not vote because I am wary of mislynches. Which, in Newbie 1666, you will be able to see I tend to err on the cautious side of things. Not to mention that we had three mislynches in a row that game (Zombie, who self-voted, Jake, who was being stubborn and uncooperative, and myself, because we were in lylo and there was lke a wall between me and DoTA who was town.) My reaction is normal.

I mean, self voting is bad and its a scummy action, but it doesn't necessarily make someone scum. The whole "lets PL pisskop!!" came really quickly after a few posts; I'm still holding my opinion that it was very opportunistic of you. In addition, you're now townreading pk, but you still aren't really stopping your whole policy lynch crusade? Do you still want to PL him?

The reads I gave at the time were the only reads I had. But atm they haven't changed much. AG, keysoze, and PK all seem town, although I'm not as sure on pk. I like UTL for town too.

AI and ircher are still scum. ras is getting worse.

HEY RAS WHY ARE YOU TOWNREADING ME

(you never answered </3)

@Ras Same, why are you town reading him?

UTL, what do you think about AI?

UTL, what do you think about AI?

I was a little turned off by his tunnel on PK, simply because I feel like he's feeding right into PK's obnoxious game. However, it seems like he's trying to engage with him more now, instead of just poke at him, which I like. He's asked people who aren't really giving much out about their reads, including you. I really don't see anything scummy with him wanting to hear from you before explaining his reads, as at that point you really hadn't given much. Has to be a give and take, ya know? Overall, I'm leaning town on him.

(I'd still like to know about his flip flop on me.)


Heat, might I ask why you like me for town?

UTL started out with some

really strong analysis

that I liked, and I do agree with a lot of her views on players, namely keysor and Pk.

She also has an Asuna avatar and I'm SAO trash so

Really strong analysis? What does that even mean? You mean this post down here?

Let’s talk about this wagon on PK. Burning and Ras voted him in RVS, then AI jumps on the wagon, changing his vote from Ircher to PK “because he’s scum.” He later lists his reasons, where Keyser “feels like sheeping this” and jumps on too, at which point PK just gives up and selfvotes putting himself at L-2 because he doesn’t care and this game is dumb. Ircher now wants to lynch him based on his poor attitude (but isn’t doing anything about it?).

AI’s reasons for voting him aren’t bad. PK has been at him with nothing of substance, with no sense of real intent. Unless, of course, he was just trying to see what reaction he could get out of the guy that, at the time, wasn’t really contributing much either. If that’s the case, it worked. He definitely got a reaction.

What’s really bothering me is the selfvote. He says he doesn’t care about this game, and yet, he doesn’t want to let somebody who does sub in for him. At this point, we’re put in a crappy situation. If we Policy Lynch like Ircher is suggesting, he may flip town and we’re already down on day 1, which isn't a good start. If we don’t and he survives the night, he may just continue with his current level of participation (or lack thereof) and draining attitude.

I guess what I want to know, PK, is what exactly is your intent with the selfvote?

What parts of the post do you like? Do you agree that we should PL PK? Why?

@UTL I may have missed it but what's your read on AI , for pushing on your demise? You voted Ircher instead of AI.

You know, I really don’t get his vote on me. He says I’m opportunistic, but I don’t get how. If that were the case, there are a couple of wagons I could have jumped on, but didn’t, because I wasn’t 100% comfortable with them. I reread some things, and decided to see if I could get a reaction out of him as to maybe lend some insight into his thought process. He has been defending Ircher all game, no great reasons why. So, I decided to put pressure on Ircher to see 1) how he would react and 2) if he would give any more insight as to why he’s so sure Ircher is town.

He dodges getting asked about his reads on me by PK, decides Droog is town, and moves his vote off of me to pressure Boon

. No real insight here. But then we get this:

The town-Ircher I know from Newbie 1666 is extremely open about his views, even when they are sometimes contradictory, or controversial.

I know this, because I was the scum framing him for his mistakes. We lynched Ircher in LYLO and won the game.

I am not going to let that happen now that I am town.

@Ircher, why is UTL opportunistic? Is he taking advantage of something? Explain.

[Golden Robster]

The first part, soz I put the wrong thing down. I meant, "If AI and Ircher are both scum buddies, wouldn't that make there relationship blindingly obvious when AI gives a lackluster explanation and compares it to a "gut" reading of Ircher."

Heat is pushing for a lynch on AI which I find interesting in the regard that UTL is also hinting at the fact that AI might be lean scum.

I need to look at the interaction between Heat and UTL because frankly, they might be scum partners.

[Golden Robster]

UNVOTE: Pisskop

[Golden Robster]

I'm against a D1 Heat (and Droog) lynch because I think another day may help in sorting them out.

Who would you lynch then?

[Golden Robster]

Not going to be here for the next two days but I want a lynch on either Heat, UTL and Ras.

[Golden Robster]

I'm liking what we have so far. The flip will tell us a lot, especially since we can completely disregard the later comments made by the person getting lynched (wifom), and focus on their early interactions if they end up being scum.

If their town, we can take a look at the wagon and start to scrutinise the interactions that occurred.

[Golden Robster]

G'morning.

We're on the right track folks.

[Golden Robster]

Townreading Heat and UTL at this point.

*looks at them with an intensified look*

As I stated before, I definitely think that one of them is scum.

[Golden Robster]

Whelp, I won't be on tommorrow in time for deadline, so:

VOTE: Ras

@Ras
In case you flip town:

Who do you think we should lynch D2?

Axle, droog or UTL

. I'm wary of you being a red herring at this point and there's something in your interaction with AI that makes me averse for now.

Since intent is here, VT. Good luck guys.

At this point here, he knew he was screwed. The wagon was at L-1.

Since he knew his actions were going to be scrutinised, wifom, do you think that there is any real possibility that a scum exists in the people he talked about above. Again, I dislike UTL and Heat for reasons stated before.

[Golden Robster]

After looking over AI’s posts about scumreading UTL,

You mean when he kept throwing around "opportunistic" and never once explained why?

Based on his advancing reads lists in d1, particularly his reads list 1.4 on scumreading Heat/UTL/pk, I have a theory that he was offed because he was on the right track.

Yeah I agree with this.

[Golden Robster]

I'm pretty sure my reads are pretty accurate. Ras was one of my scum reads on my last reads' list, along with Performer and Ircher, so my reads haven't really changed much. if anything I'm even more sure of it now. I'm more likely to be wrong on Ircher due to tunnel vision, but meh.

Boonskiies

pisskop
droog
massive
Keyser Söze
AxleGreaser

UpTooLate
Heat
Golden Robster

Performer
Ircher

Wait a minute.

You think Performer is scum when he explicitly states that Ras is one of his scum reads during one the earlier posts.

town: utl, keys, ircher
scummy: massive, Rask
-----
Rask - I'm scum leaning Ras for his very brief and mysterious posts.

You think he'd intentionally bring his own scum buddy out into the spotlight for "his very brief and mysterious posts."

[Golden Robster]

Townreading Heat and UTL at this point.

*looks at them with an intensified look*

As I stated before, I definitely think that one of them is scum.

And as we noticed in the vote count...you were the only one not voting. Please elaborate for me why that was the case.

tbh, it was more like I forgot to vote; had an interview and it kept me preoccupied.

[Golden Robster]

Wait a minute.

You think Performer is scum when he explicitly states that Ras is one of his scum reads during one the earlier posts.

I don't see your argument here.

Also, it is not unheard of (at all) of scum bussing their partners, especially when it is desparate.

You think he was desperate at #241? Nah mate. Just Nah.

Nobody even had a vote on Ras at that time.

[Golden Robster]

Nobody even had a vote on Ras at that time.

Ircher had expressed an earlier scum-read/vote on Raskolnikov (post 213).

Didn't see that; yeah I'm still going to stick with my belief that Performer might be town.

[Golden Robster]

I townlean axle and townread Massive.

@pk this is interesting...I'm scum leaning massive instead of town reading him.
*yells at massive's apartment*
"Massive come out
you said I asked about weekend activity
but now it's the weekday!"

@Ircher I find it somewhat peculiar that you lean town on me. Although I'm beginning to lean town on you because of your reads list and the way you seem to be carefully going about things.
I think instead of a PL (which wastes a day's lynch if the target turns out town), you should rally people against who you scumread.

Ras is looking scummier than Axle at the moment.
VOTE: Ras

-----
Between the pk vs AI and Ras vs Keys situations, I'm only townreading Keys,

I'm scum leaning Ras for his very brief and mysterious posts

, and the pk vs AI situation..

they both have experience with each other, they are both voting each other. I'm not certain who's town in that dilemma, or if both are even town.

I get where your coming from. There's a lot of fluff within this pile of text that hides it away but the vote clears all that away.

I'm going to stick with my guns on this one. Even if he does flip scum and you all accuse me of being scum buddies together.

[Golden Robster]

There's a lot of fluff within this pile of text that hides it away

but the vote clears all that away

.

I am still confused.
I don't see anything special about that vote except that it was tacked onto a bit specifically driected at

@Ircher

, and had any explanation for the vote tacked on the end of a paragraph @Ircher, its about the least clear, purposeful vote i can imagine.

So
If a vote (any vote?) clears it all away...
then in your view every time a scum votes his buddy for bit of distance,
that drags the buddy into the spotlight so much
that it appears you don't believe they can be buddies.

I am not sure i followed that right, if I am mistaken please clarify.

Actually fair point, I just realised how dumb I sounded there.

But yeah, it's more to do with gut rather than anything else. Obviously that sounds preposterous but feel free to dismiss what I'm saying.

(inb4 I'm completely wrong on this)

[Golden Robster]

I'm her, time to catch up.

[Golden Robster]

But yeah, it's more to do with gut rather than anything else. Obviously that sounds preposterous but feel free to dismiss what I'm saying.

Its Ok I usually feel free to dismiss what people say even when neither i nor them are not confused.

There is however the other problem, not what this is saying about performers alignment but what it is saying about yours.

Your read currently stands as being based on stuff that when examined as I did in 996 does not turn out to really be truth.
It then becomes based on "but the vote clears all that away."

Which when examined again 1005 again is not what you now mean,
and now its just " it's more to do with gut rather than anything else."
and no "Obviously that sounds preposterous" , gut reads do happen, that is not preposterous.
But normally they dont get prefaced by two other claimed explanations(996 1005) that dont make sense.

Actually fair point, I just realised how dumb I sounded there.

The other option is you were caught flat footed when your made up reasoning unravelled.

Can you make any progress with 'gut' related to what?
This seems like pretty strong stance

I'm going to stick with my guns on this one. Even if he does flip scum and you all accuse me of being scum buddies together.

for a read you try to explain and fail on twice, finally resorting to gut, but with no specifics at all.

I'm telling you man, it's the gut. THE GUT. Sometimes, you've just got to roll with your instinct and my instincts are telling me he's town.

[Golden Robster]

Honestly I don't mind lynching either UTL/Heat. I said it in a post really early on that the interaction between them seemed off to me and I'm betting that one of them is scum.

VOTE: UTL

UTL reads.

Keyser, Axle
Pisskop,Droog
Massive, Boon
Golden,

Heat,

Performer, Ircher

Heat reads.

[Heat]
[Keysor, Axle]
[Droog, boons, pisskop]
[massive, GR]
[Ircher, Performer]

[UTL]

The reads are pretty much the same. And yet they scum read one another.

Why? Similar reads usually provide an assurance that your on the right track to lynching scum regardless of whether the person making the reads is right or wrong.

@Heat Why did you instantly change your thought process midway through your ISO and decide that UTL was scummy? Doesn't that sound awfully strange? What made you change your decision about him?

@UTL Why do you scumread Heat? Who do you think we should lynch? Performer & Ircher? Which one would you prefer?

[Golden Robster]

Oh yeah, that vote on UCL can easily change to Heat.

I want to hear more from Heat since I've not had a chance to ask him questions and see his response.

[Golden Robster]

I'm telling you man, it's the gut. THE GUT. Sometimes, you've just got to roll with your instinct and my instincts are telling me he's town.

That is nice and all, and i have had GUT reads myself,
your town read of performer was however first claimed to be based on two other things that tuned out not to be so.
As i described in 1028

and your only answer for why you first thought it was other things but now realize it is only based on gut is

I'm telling you man, it's the gut. THE GUT.

Your mistaking my honesty for scumminess. Honestly, when I came out with what I said, I was being truthful. You can complain all you want about how I don't have anything to back what I'm saying, which is WHY IM TELLING YOU. It's in the gut.

Fine lynch thou art Performer. If he flips scum, you can lynch me next. If he flips town, then you should bloody well review your reads.

Rant over.

[Golden Robster]

Look, I'm telling you it's my gut.

Please continue to read me as scum. If your unsatisfied then by all means lynch Performer.

You'd think if me and him were scum buddies, I'd be a teensy wee bit less obvious eh?

[Golden Robster]

That is indeed a problem.

What's the problem?

and was only THE GUT,

y'know there comes a point when it becomes too obvious

It is also teensy bit obvious for white knighting.

Exactly. So why are you still trying to lynch me?

It is also a teensy bit empty (its reasons keep changing) for a thought about town read.

How does it keep changing? I started with my honest thoughts, and then proceeded to say it was more to do with my gut.

My best understanding (unless i am wrong on my stronger town reads) is the game is tad rich in town reads so finding people to mislynch is hard.
Scums back is against the wall. Losing another team member is not viable.

By all means sir, lynch Performer.

They ought be playing in do or die mode. You appear to fit the bill.

Are you joking me? We've only lynched one scum and you think there "backs are against the wall."

Honestly, I'm not going to argue with you about this.

[Golden Robster]

Are you joking me? We've only lynched one scum and you think their "backs are against the wall."

If this following post is true (accurate assessment), then yeah, scum when town are on the right track D2 and lynched scum D1, scum are in serious do do.

G'morning.

We're on the right track folks.

Scenario 1: I'm scum, hard defending my scum buddy Mr Performer and white knighting him so he can stay alive.
Scenario 2: I'm scum and hard defending Performer so when he flips town I gain towncred.
Scenario 3: We're both town.
Scenario 4: I'm a crazy mislead town member and hard defending a scum

Again, a teensy little bit obvious eh if it was scenario 1.

You seem fixed in your ways so i'm not going to bother.

[Golden Robster]

yes because i'm that desperate to protect my scum buddy performer.

if he flips scum, then you can all lynch me next.

if he flips town, then you can all bow down to me.

[Golden Robster]

@Performer

I need a list of your updated reads.

[Golden Robster]

@Performer

I need a list of your updated reads.

Sorry, scrap that. Just saw your post about scum.

[Golden Robster]

Great, even the guy who I think is town, is now scum reading me.

Golden unvoted pisskop, posted near deadline, and ended up not voting on d1. This sequence is still suspicious to me – his reason of no vote being he forgot to vote because he had an interview.

I unvoted PK cause my former slot member had voted him.

Moreso, Golden claimed to have gut townread me in his posts 906-989. Then out of nowhere, he posted in 1110 about being alright with my lynch, which is extremely scummy because of the sudden unexplained contradiction. So he’s been gut townreading me and suddenly he’s ok with my lynch - as if he knows I am town. He continues the passive aggressive charade for my death, with 1112 & 1114. massive, you recall the last time FB used "gut" to read people? He turned out scummy. This is a similar case with this slot, in addition - Golden is fine with my lynch . Wow. That doesn't add up to him being town.

I'm alright with a lynch, because Axle seems to be thinking that me and you are scum buddies. My gut can't save you Performer, soz man; you can curse me in the afterlife.

I feel like you're just wifoming right now. You sense your imminent doom, and you realise that you can't escape. You use my gut read as an excuse to attack me. Doesn't add up.

His scumreads include Heat/UTL – he thought one of them is scum. He took all the way until his 1/29, 1095 post to say he wants more from Heat – then he stated he didn’t have a chance to engage with him, yet he never followed up on engaging with Heat. Empty words.

Just to be clear, I'd lynch Heat right here, right now.

Also.

VOTE: Performer

[Golden Robster]

Why'd you switch PK? Go hammer him down.

[Golden Robster]

I was going to asK : I also think one of { UTL, Heat } is scum but I'm not pushing it. Is that scummy for me too?

.. but I don't want to get too bogged down in the semantics of it, because I have a fairly comfortable town read on you at this time and I think (at this point in the game at least) I need to not worry about being paranoid. Let me look at GR and then we can talk a little more.

Dunno did you say you had already stated that as your read in the thread when you hadn't?

Did you at the start of D2 that on D1 you had

As I stated before, I definitely think that one of them is scum.

meaning that when you ended D1

No Vote (1): Golden Robster

So either you'd be lying that you had earlier thought one of them as def scum, or you had been voting nobody D1 when you actually thought one of two people were def scum...

So yeah if you have done those things
then oops
I had better go find them in your filter (verify the things that are not there, are there...?) and scum read you .. that is if I can find those scummy things in your filter.

WHAT DA FAK ARE YOU ON MATE.

The first part, soz I put the wrong thing down. I meant, "If AI and Ircher are both scum buddies, wouldn't that make there relationship blindingly obvious when AI gives a lackluster explanation and compares it to a "gut" reading of Ircher."

Heat is pushing for a lynch on AI which I find interesting in the regard that UTL is also hinting at the fact that AI might be lean scum.

I need to look at the interaction between Heat and UTL because frankly, they might be scum partners.

You see dis shit?

[Golden Robster]

@PK, Why did you switch your vote to UTL at this point?

Him.

psure performer is a he.

Now listen here, Im sherrif of this here town, and I also jus' happen to be the champion of this here wagon. Get. Back. On. or give me reasons Im wrong.

What's this eh?

Dislike this immensely. State your reasons for changing.

[Golden Robster]

Honestly I don't mind lynching either UTL/Heat. I said it in a post really early on that the interaction between them seemed off to me and I'm betting that one of them is scum.

No

frankly

actually you did not.

You did I suppose say...

Heat is pushing for a lynch on AI which I find interesting in the regard that UTL is also hinting at the fact that AI might be lean scum.

I need to look at the interaction between Heat and UTL because

frankly

, they

might

be scum

partners

.

but many people shared some reads... why that one, and is that really what you are referring to

You said you were going to and they might look like partners. (which is not one but both)

And you highlighted this read by someone else who flipped scum.

Townreading Heat and UTL at this point.

*looks at them with an intensified look*

As I stated before, I definitely think that one of them is scum.

and if you subscribe to the too obvious cant be scum school of reasoning as you claim too.

How often have you seen scum just post both his scum

partners

as empty unjustified town reads?

So no you have noted someone elses interaction

with them

and made hand waving promises about what you would do but didn't.

and had contradictory ideas that they might be partners but cited evidence(874) for one and only one...
and even though you claimed to have those ideas on D1, you were not voting either on D1 at the end.

HUH?

I said there has to be a scum in Heat and UTL. THAT WAS WHAT I SAID.

As I stated before, I definitely think that one of them is scum.

Your telling me, that you believe that I'm scum, along with Performer, along with one person out of Heat and UTL.

You refuse to see past you're clouded view that in all possibility, I could be town.

and if you subscribe to the too obvious cant be scum school of reasoning as you claim too.

How often have you seen scum just post both his scum partners as empty unjustified town reads?

Yes, and how often have you seen scum jump on an easy target to attack? Exactly. How was it unjustified, I plainly said that the interaction between them was strange. And I still stand by that view. You think there "empty" and unjustified.

I'd still lynch Heat & UTL right here, right now.

[Golden Robster]

Someone should hammer utl

Why'd you switch from Performer to UTL.

I want an answer from you.

[Golden Robster]

Someone should hammer utl

Why'd you switch from Performer to UTL.

I want an answer from you.

I hope you understand when I dont care what you want

Thanks for that productive town play sir, you're just emitting enthusiasm.

[Golden Robster]

What happened in the five minutes you spent justifying you vote?

Why did you switch your vote?

Answer my question, before I answer yours.

Common courtesy.

[Golden Robster]

I flip town
you guys lose me and then we lose another town player at night

Thanks captain ovbious.

OR

I flip mafia
you guys lose me and then we lose another town player at night

[Golden Robster]

I had a change of heart Performer *sniffle*. Don't worry, if you flip scum, town will lynch me because I look scummy.

[Golden Robster]

Boon is a cool bean.

[Golden Robster]

Are you confused by my awesome plays Axle?

[Golden Robster]

do I get my pony now?

yus

[Golden Robster]

@Axle
you stated

GR wants to keep Performer alive

I elaborated that's not the case with Golden, who

suddenly sneaked in a post that he’s ok with my death,

I don't get what's so hard to understand.
Your continued confusion during d2 against me, is starting to make me think there's more to this than you being town trying to figure things out.

Yep, i'm okay with you're death.

When did I say I was "hard defending you". Lol.

I was gut reading you as town.

Yes you got me Performer, i am scum. I'm just going to ride on that town cred once you flip town and i'm going to be the mvp of the game.

[Golden Robster]

@Golden what are voting me about? Your vote is looking like OMGUS to me

Slightly; it's not retaliation or anything but I'm suspicious of your motives.

I dislike how you attempt to move the limelight of yourself onto me. It's almost as if your playing diversionary tactics and saying "don't lynch me, lynch GR. He's a lot scummier than me."

I also dislike how PK switched the vote quite suddenly, from you to UTL. It's making me re-evaluate my reads and making me cautious.

[Golden Robster]

@Golden what are voting me about? Your vote is looking like OMGUS to me

Slightly; it's not retaliation or anything but I'm suspicious of your motives.

I dislike how you attempt to move the limelight of yourself onto me. It's almost as if your playing diversionary tactics and saying "don't lynch me, lynch GR. He's a lot scummier than me."

I also dislike how PK switched the vote quite suddenly, from you to UTL. It's making me re-evaluate my reads and making me cautious.

Iirc, you gut townread me, suddenly mention you're ok with my lynch and you didn't vote me.
That's as contradictory as the third letter of the alphabet.

Then pk unvoted me, and you added your vote on my wagon. Hmm.

Yes darling, mafia is a game of lying.

You'd think I'd be dumb enough as scum to come out to white knight someone who I knew was town.

Mislynch occurs, and everybody looks at me. YES DARLING, GREAT FEKIN MOVE.

Also you're wrong. I was going to hammer, but PK unvoted.

[Golden Robster]

Reads

Town

Axle - Solid reasoning and attempt to pressure me was very strong. Strong town vibes.
Keysor - Again, logical and analytical. First one on the Ras wagon so I'm pretty sure he is town.

Leaning Town

Massive - Second one on the Ras wagon. Good reasoning and logical thinking.
Ircher - I'd say he's pretty town. Good posts with substance.

Null

Boon - Not paid much attention to him.
RC - Not caught up.

Leaning Scum

UTL - I'm actually reconsidering this scum read partly due to the change in vote from PK to UTL. (Maybe I'm crazy, who knows)
PK - Doesn't strike me as town. His comments have been lacking and the sudden change in vote has made me immensely suspicious of him. No reasoning to back it up?
Performer - When I talked about the gut read, he switched me from slightly town to scum. Not only does this seem like an overreaction, but the possibility that scum performer realises he's on his last legs, and is trying to find someone else who looks scummier could be quite possible.

I know, I know. Everybody's like "Wow GR, why do you scum read Performer when you thought he was town like 2 seconds ago".

[Golden Robster]

Oh yeah add Heat to the Leaning Scum as well, forgot about him.

[Golden Robster]

Robster is having a field day out here, trying to paint up my switch as the scummiest fucking thing ever. Tell me, why would you ask for him to post and then 5 minutes later try to hammer?

Youre playh is lackluster, your opinions unimportant, and your reactions overdrawn. Its almost like youre sad you arent hammering. Do you want some kind of credit for it or something?

Wait. One thing.

Have you even explained yourself yet? Again, I stated that I immensely disliked it and you continue to ignore it.

Yes, feed me with your vocabulary, i'm sure you can get a reaction from me in the next century.

[Golden Robster]

Im not the one too weak to successfully push people.

Ah yes, the old "I'm not the one who can't do X."

Nobody in this game has the power to force my lynch. And as such Im declining to answer.

True. Nobody in the game does have the power to make you answer, but I'm pretty sure that alternative reaaaally doesn't help either.

@Golden
How much FM experience do you have?
I've seen people (who turned out to be scum) "defend" town by using the reason of gut reading them.

still no follow-up with Heat, who you think is one your scumreads
while you obviously keep your vote on me since you're so adamant on me being scum, why don't we stop the pointless interaction with one another until this day ends, and you try engaging Heat ?...who I am also scumreading.

As for RC, droog was his predecessor - these are same slot. What's your read on droog?

Not much FM experience but I regularly play RL mafia. If you're going to use that as indicator for me then please feel free.

I'm tempted to say I was wrong about Heat, because looking back, the only real thing that makes me strange is that his reads were pretty similar to UTL and this weird vibe that I got from him and UTL. Again, I'm re-evaluating my reads and I can engage Heat, but not going to lie, he hasn't been talking much and the last thing he said was that he was debating a flash lynch on me or a hammer on you.

I've not paid that much attention to Droog so I can't comment.

[Golden Robster]

@Massive - Before you hammer, I want to hear Keysor and his views on all of this.

[Golden Robster]

DUDE WTF.

[Golden Robster]

pisskop you got 20 minutes to make me believe UTL or I'm hammering Performer.

well
my Antihero-playstyle forecasting from an earlier post, is coming true about massive
-----
Some observations in twilight:
massive stating intent to hammer, pk's unexplained certainty about me flipping town (I'm flattered but it is rather sudden); Heat's "not talking too much" - as Golden said so himself, along with Heat's indecision about voting me or flash lynching Golden.

KK. Noted.

I really hope you're not town :S

[Golden Robster]

Pg 51 interactions between pk and massive, as well as pk's interaction with Golden in refusing to answer about his weird switch to UTL...could this be that pk is actually scum, who fabricated a complex taunt plan people into getting me lynched?

@Golden well , I am town.

GOD FEKIN DAMMIT I KNEW IT.

[Golden Robster]

If I get NKed, someone take a look at PK/UTL/Heat.

[Golden Robster]

And the provocation begins.

[Golden Robster]

pk acting like he'se the angel in all of this

When did you become a confirmed town again?

[Golden Robster]

Uh, so I'm going to need to be force replaced most likely.

Love you all!

Well then

[Golden Robster]

Totally

*showers pk in town cred*

[Golden Robster]

@Axle

I seriously don't understand how you can continue to read me as scum

[Golden Robster]

Pisskop, why didn't you just explain why you jumped wagons yesterday? If you want people to fucking listen to you, you can't just pull the "I'm PK so do what I say" bs. Don't get all pissy today because we didn't see what you saw, and you didn't take the time to point it out.

This shit

[Golden Robster]

Answer that shit

[Golden Robster]

Tomorrow we go after massive.

Well, like I said, bring it on. You did a great job at the end of the day yesterday playing for town cred, in a way that has turned out to be WAY more efficient than normal "abandon the town wagon" style, that even had me going "but I still think pisskop is town" overnight. But why couldn't you produce this:

Like are all of you so goddamn stupid you cant read a players readslist and be like 'Oh shit, thats actually really genuine'?

when asked, repeatedly, by multiple players, for an understanding of why you jumped ship?

I agree with both of these statements. That sudden change in vote without a proper explanation did not help my read of you PK.

VOTE: Pisskop

[Golden Robster]

vote" AI

You keep not engaging. We'll see who wins

Coincidence that he was nked n1? Bullshit. Scum knew that he was getting close.

AI reads. I consider this as a point of reference.

{AlwaysInnocent}
{Ircher, Keyser}
{Deus}
{Performer, Droog, Raskolnikov}
{Axle, Boonskiies, Massive}

{Pisskop}
{UpTooLate, Heat}

I want a lynch on these three. PK is pushing for a UTL lynch.

If we lynch UTL and he flips town, I suggest we lynch PK afterwards. He's been wrong with AI and only lightly touched on Ras. Afterwards, he lead the wagon on Performer until he switched with no reasoning apart from "sub-par players".

Im not explaining shit. I understand you lot are too fucking weaksauce to read players, but this game isnt worth my effort. Subpar ass players.

I say we lynch UTL and if he flips scum, we re-evaluate our reads and look at the early interactions between them. My vote can change; I want opinions from other people.

[Golden Robster]

I'm pretty sure my reads are pretty accurate. Ras was one of my scum reads on my last reads' list, along with Performer and Ircher, so my reads haven't really changed much. if anything I'm even more sure of it now. I'm more likely to be wrong on Ircher due to tunnel vision, but meh.

Boonskiies

pisskop
droog
massive
Keyser Söze
AxleGreaser

UpTooLate
Heat
Golden Robster

Performer
Ircher

Are you not going to re-evaluate your reads after the mislynch on Performer?

Give me a rundown on why you think Ircher is scum.

[Golden Robster]

Yeah I agree with that tunnel vision. I don't scum read Ircher.

[Golden Robster]

Golden, how do you respond to this wagon on you?

Just woke up, give me time

[Golden Robster]

Reads

Town

Axle - Solid reasoning and attempt to pressure me was very strong. Strong town vibes.
Keysor - Again, logical and analytical. First one on the Ras wagon so I'm pretty sure he is town.

Leaning Town

Massive - Second one on the Ras wagon. Good reasoning and logical thinking.
Ircher - I'd say he's pretty town. Good posts with substance.

Null

Boon - Not paid much attention to him.

RC - Not caught up

.

Leaning Scum

UTL - I'm actually reconsidering this scum read partly due to the change in vote from PK to UTL. (Maybe I'm crazy, who knows)
PK - Doesn't strike me as town. His comments have been lacking and the sudden change in vote has made me immensely suspicious of him. No reasoning to back it up?
Performer - When I talked about the gut read, he switched me from slightly town to scum. Not only does this seem like an overreaction, but the possibility that scum performer realises he's on his last legs, and is trying to find someone else who looks scummier could be quite possible.

I know, I know. Everybody's like "Wow GR, why do you scum read Performer when you thought he was town like 2 seconds ago".

i dont understand this. Not caught up, so no read? What about the slot she replaced into?


I'm borderline wanting to push Gold now instead of Irch. How's that for a reevaluation?

You start the wagon on me by claiming that I've had plenty of time to evaluate the RC slot. Frankly, I haven't been paying much attention to RC and that reason stands true. The slot before him was leaning town. These were the reads Droog agreed on and I concur with.

{AlwaysInnocent}
{Ircher, Keyser}
{Deus}
{Performer, Droog, Raskolnikov}
{Axle, Boonskiies, Massive}
{Pisskop}
{UpTooLate, Heat}

i agree a lot more with\
what your readlist has become

And then his reads change.

town

keysey (same reasons as before)
ai (same wavelength, doesnt take pk crap)
axle (he gets in-depth in a way not worth faking as scum)
irchir (misguided but coming from the right place)

heat (nothing sets off alarm bells)
utl (ive decided my old scumtells were crap here)
boonskiiies (lurksakc)


pisskop

performer

scum

Agree on PK as scum lean.

I want a lynch on these three. PK is pushing for a UTL lynch.

You do keep including heat in the list of people your happy to lynch them never really quite doing anything about that.....

geee I wonder, why that would be.

Yes because when I flip scum, you can charge right at him. BE. MY. GUEST.


To answer that contradictions crap, when did I ever say that Performer was confirmed town. I HAD A GUT READ THAT HE WAS TOWN. AND LOOK, HE TURNED OUT TO BE TOWN. I went with the lynch, because everybody started scum reading me as soon as I said I thought he was town. Not helping was Axle, who continually pursued my case with this shit below.

1. ER, GR. THE VOTE DOESN'T WASH DAT SHIT AWAY.
2. ER, GR. WHY ARE YOU OKAY WITH A PERFORMER LYNCH.

1. Yes, I agree. There was a lot of squabble and fluff in that post. But the vote stated his intentions quite clearly. And before you go into the "scum can vote, are you saying scum are not lying when they vote", I got a towny vibe from Performer beforehand, so I wasn't doubting him.
2. This was more to do with the pressure I was feeling. Everybody began to list reasons as to why Performer could be scum so I began to doubt my gut read of him as town.

When I flip, someone analyse the wagon starting on me and take a look at PK/Heat. I'm starting to have second thoughts about UTL but don't leave him out.

[Golden Robster]

To answer that contradictions crap, when did I ever say that Performer was confirmed town.

and I dont know quire who you are responding to as you didnt say...

but i have never claimed yous aid he was confirmed town.

You had read on him you tried and failed to justify finally resorting to the old and permanent(universally applicable) standby ... well it is GUT read.
Then I provided evidence abotu jyst how string that read was in you view. (you were stated you were willing to get lynched if he flipped scum)
and then flipped that supposedly strong tread on very little new evidence at all.

You did describe yourself as hard defending him, and later claimed LOL no you never had....

Those are the things you did do.

So yeah ragrding contradictions crap. I did notice other people say you had contradictions.
No I don't recall those contradictions involving claims you said performer was confirmed town, and you have failed to specify where or who claimed that,..

TBMK you just refuted a non existent claim.

I don't understand what you're trying to say? When did I describe myself as hard defending him? WHEN? Give me a post and don't post crap that makes me sound like i'm insinuating it.

I did not hard defend him. I gave my opinion and did not say meaningless posts like "you're going to have to lynch performer over my dead body." I said, and I quote here

Look, I'm telling you it's my gut.

Please continue to read me as scum. If your unsatisfied then by all means lynch Performer.

You'd think if me and him were scum buddies, I'd be a teensy wee bit less obvious eh?

I don't understand how you can view me as scum. You're a stubborn one who can't seem to budge on someone once you have a pre-formed opinion about them.

Rob is full of contradictions and opportunism and I'll probably vote for them when they respond to my question.

Go ahead and vote for me, I don't see this game progressing without you guys lynching me otherwise Axle will continue to tunnel me.

Final thoughts from me before I flip

1) Don't immediately think that Axle is town from his analysis. The continual tunnel on me may seem justified but overall, he can't seem to get to grips with the idea that I might be town and his flexibility is poor. (no offense)
2) I think Massive is town & PK is scum. I can't shake off the Heat & UTL shit but I'd rather have a lynch on Heat than UTL.
3) I'll post more afterwards

[Golden Robster]

I am perfectly fine with the idea you might be town i have endeavored to find the towny line of reasoning behind your play and failed.

Meh. You're stuck in your ways.

but I'd rather have a lynch on Heat than UTL.

did you have any reasons for this distinction? <<< in particular.

massive (3):

pisskop, Heat,

Boonskiies

PK/Heat is scum. No question. Massive is town.

[Golden Robster]

I said, and I quote here

yes you said that there, that in thatpost and thsoe words you did not explicitly say you were hard defending him is not exactly evidence it didn't happen.

Especially when i quote where you literally said that.
and where elsewhere you offered that you could be lynched the next day if he flipped scum . (That is very hard town rad and very strong defence of player)

To characterise it as less than hard defending is fiction.

Yes, but I was right in my gut read and hard defence?

The only reason I voted Performer afterwards was because I hesitated with my read of him, no thanks to your continual tunnel on me and everybody else's mistrust of my reasoning.

I'll claim when I'm at L-1.

[Golden Robster]

Meh. You're stuck in your ways.

No, what you need is reasoning to move me...

not emotive appeals claiming "Oh you are stuck in your ways."

So I suppose in that sense I am stuck in my ways.
if and when I find new better ones i will be stuck in those.

You are stuck in failing to refute my arguements, explain your play,
and instead and trying to be dismissive of me as a person.

I have explained my play, but you refuse to accept them.

1. I said I had a gut read of Performer.
2. I said the vote gave a clear indication of where his motives were, I was already town reading him.
3. Everybody started scum reading me and I hesitated with my gut read, thereby voting him.

[Golden Robster]

1. I said I had a gut read of Performer.

Not quite...

You said, he was dragging his buddy into the spotlight was the reason.
I showed that was not a valid description of the events.

You said the vote made ti so he was dragging his buddy into the spotlight.
That also didnt hold water as reason.

Then you decided it was "gut read", Gut reads are convenient for scum because theres no way to dispute whether or not they are genuine.
THAT does not make them scummy just convenient.

What Does not sit right with me, is thateread you intially thought and claimed and stated ou had reasons for tuned out not have those reasons as valid... Twice...

and yet you now post facto in hindsight, say Oh no its a gut read.

That ^^^^^^^^^^^^ seems very fabricated to me

I dont object to the isolated fact that player *(you said) they had gut read.
I claim the sequence of events was scummy.

I have made that distinction abundently clear...
You persistently reframe it as something else and refute that instead.

That too is a scum style response.

Wrong. You did not prove that it didn't hold reason. You merely presented your own thoughts and said that it didn't make sense. To me, he was dragging his scum buddy out into the spotlight with that vote, if they were scum buddies (which they weren't)

I'm going to push for a lynch on PK because I'm still alive and I won't be much use when i'm dead. I agree with what massive said earlier.

VOTE: Pisskop

[Golden Robster]

I relented and acknowledged that there was a lot of fluff within that post.

[Golden Robster]

gdi you suck at this, bro

thanks partner

[Golden Robster]

Wrong. You did not prove that it didn't hold reason. You merely presented your own thoughts and said that it didn't make sense. To me, he was dragging his scum buddy out into the spotlight with that vote, if they were scum buddies (which they weren't)

NO prove is a level of showing such a thing that simply doesnt happen in mafia games.

You changed your read, failed to further explain or support your point,
You in no way refuted the idea that that the vote was in anyway different to any other distancing vote that scum routinely make.

and instead CHANGED your claim to it is was THE GUT.[/quote

this shit won't end till im dead huh

[Golden Robster]

Id vote you but Im fairly sure I already know what your awfully obvious scumgame looks like.

even pk admits im town

[Golden Robster]

Id lynch you just for being an asshat.

The irony of this statement completely blows my mind.

[Golden Robster]

nobody is considering the situation where I flip town

[Golden Robster]

I''d rather Golden claim before we switch onto a new wagon.

Claiming vanilla townie.

I don't think that Golden Robster is gonna flip scum here.

I'd rather lynch UTL.

Listen to this guy ^

The way I see it:

If Golden flips Town then Boon is gonna push for my lynch D4 which would lead to a D5 LyLo situation barring extra nk's or other stopping roles.

That will probably be the outcome.

I'm really struggling to see how lynching Ircher D4 is going to help town.

Honestly, there are just too many reasons not to lynch anyone else at this point. We get loads of new information even if we are somehow incorrect on Golden.

Some thoughts beforehand

1. Take a look at my wagon from the beginning - I'm actually quite nervous if the scum group was something like PK - Boon. (Maybe I'm crazy about the whole PK switching vote incident & Boon's adamancy on lynching Ircher next night)
2. I'm pretty sure RC is town, so stick with him.
3. There is probably at least one scum on my wagon, if not two pushing for the mislynch.

The scum team is Ircher/Golden.

Those were good shots, though. Golden. Keyser and AlwaysInnocent. I imagine your next shot would have been Axle, so also nice shot.

Scum are targeting the players that can have a strong impact on the game.

[Golden Robster]

Np, I got you fam

if you get nked we still got axle

[Golden Robster]

I do think one of them is likely scum (not both) and it's a pick-em for me at this point. Gonna go back and look at Keyser's ISO and see if I see anything that would make one or the other want to kill him more N2.

Keyser's more on UTL than Heat, and if I can see UTL being the more likely of the two to kill AI N1, it also follows that she'd be the more likely of the two to kill Keyser N2.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: UTL

[Golden Robster]

If UTL flips town then it's probably heat

[Golden Robster]

The first part, soz I put the wrong thing down. I meant, "If AI and Ircher are both scum buddies, wouldn't that make there relationship blindingly obvious when AI gives a lackluster explanation and compares it to a "gut" reading of Ircher."

Heat is pushing for a lynch on AI which I find interesting in the regard that UTL is also hinting at the fact that AI might be lean scum.

I need to look at the interaction between Heat and UTL because frankly, they might be scum partners.

Not going to be here for the next two days but I want a lynch on either Heat, UTL and Ras.

Read List D1 V3

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher, Keyser}

{Deus}

{Performer}

{Lilac, Massive, Burning_Earth}

{Axle, Heat}

{UpTooLate, Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop}

You state in your reads that Pisskop is your scummiest read. I agree that some of his posts were indeed strange, but the self-vote changed my view about him.

Why would he do that as scum? What would he be trying to accomplish in doing so? Gaining townrep by doing so? Nuh-uh. Doesn't make sense. Policy lynch has been brought up a couple of times and UTL has stated that it doesn't help town both ways if he is alive/dead.

Not much interaction between UTL and PK apart from one post from UTL commenting and analysing the PK wagon early on. (Need to look at this)

Also, UTL has been questioning a lot of Ircher's passiveness at wanting a PL rather than showing initiative and doing so.

And you've got UTL on leaning to scum and PK on scum. If we do PL him and he does indeed flip scum, then you're moving up to town in my reads. No way you've been bussing him for that long & if your meta read on Ircher is half-decent, then droog might be half-suspicious.

I'm quite interested as to why Ircher believes that PK isn't scum.

[Golden Robster]

The key in analyzing AI imo was the fact that he didn't seem the most logical nk. Sure, he was a nuisance and may be a bit difficult to lynch, but imo, there seemed to be way better canidates than AI for the n1 nk (most notably Keyser).

So, as I understand, Axle believes that AI was mainly nk'd cuz scum thought there was a high prob. of him being a PR.

I agree, but I also think he was n'ked because his reads were on point.

{AlwaysInnocent}
{Ircher, Keyser}
{Deus}
{Performer, Droog, Raskolnikov}
{Axle, Boonskiies, Massive}
{Pisskop}
{UpTooLate, Heat}

Regarding the Heat question about why Ircher would prefer a lynch on him rather than me.

I think the answer to that is because everybody seems to have a universal scum read of both you and UTL. More associative info will be revealed once you flip.

[Golden Robster]

of you, UTL or both of you*

[Golden Robster]

+ we can take a look at the earlier scum reads/town reads; again, useful information in town's hands.

[Golden Robster]

I think the last scum is boon, will post more on that later.

[Golden Robster]

Also, Axle are you still scum reading me and heat?

[Golden Robster]

...?

counting is apparently hard.

Is this a joke, you're still scum reading me?

I can't tell if your stubborn or scum.

[Golden Robster]

Wrong quote. On the phone. Meant to put Ircher's quote up there about his reads.

[Golden Robster]

Still on my phone btw

If somebody actually looked at the post where I said heat and utl could be scum buddies they'd probably realise that I'm not scum.

Axle's reasoning on me is poor because me and heat are not scum buddies, on the contrary I'd probably compromise with a lynch on him.

ive said that I wanted a lynch on utl or heat from the beginning. I haven't changed

[Golden Robster]

Somebody look at boon's comment before the flip. It was something along the lines of "UTL flipping scum, lynch GR"

I'm betting my ass that it's scum boon. I did an ISO analysis of him last night and i did not like where his votes were. Once I get home, I'll give a proper analysis.

[Golden Robster]

@GR,

please explain why you highlighted the rd bits that you did?

In particular 622

I want to lynch AI today.

&&

push me

seem entirely unrelated to the asscoiated comments.

213

The reason why I sugget PL Pisskop was because he was unpleasant and self-voted

&&

good evidence of scum

also seem unrelated to the associated comment
676

He dodges getting asked about his reads on me by PK, decides Droog is town, and moves his vote off of me to pressure Boon

. also seem unrelated to the associated comment

Spoiler: an earlier post

Personally, I'm against the following lynches for D1:

{AI, Heat, Keyser, Ircher, Axle, Droog, Pisskop}

Why shouldn't we lynch Heat? What do you think he's done to stand out as a town?
[spoiler2=]

I want to lynch AI today.

Hes been avoiding questions all week, and is trying to

push me

based on stupid shit he can't even prove (how tf am I being opportunistic this game?) and I hate how he defends ircher

I've only skimmed the parts I missed but those are my thoughts atm.

Why would scum self-vote? What would they hope to gain from it?

1. I think there's a misunderstanding between Heat and me.

The reason why I sugget PL Pisskop was because he was unpleasant and self-voted

. As explained in my first game here, self-voting is objectively bad and

good evidence of scum

. I did not vote because I am wary of mislynches. Which, in Newbie 1666, you will be able to see I tend to err on the cautious side of things. Not to mention that we had three mislynches in a row that game (Zombie, who self-voted, Jake, who was being stubborn and uncooperative, and myself, because we were in lylo and there was lke a wall between me and DoTA who was town.) My reaction is normal.

I mean, self voting is bad and its a scummy action, but it doesn't necessarily make someone scum. The whole "lets PL pisskop!!" came really quickly after a few posts; I'm still holding my opinion that it was very opportunistic of you. In addition, you're now townreading pk, but you still aren't really stopping your whole policy lynch crusade? Do you still want to PL him?

The reads I gave at the time were the only reads I had. But atm they haven't changed much. AG, keysoze, and PK all seem town, although I'm not as sure on pk. I like UTL for town too.

AI and ircher are still scum. ras is getting worse.

HEY RAS WHY ARE YOU TOWNREADING ME

(you never answered </3)

@Ras Same, why are you town reading him?

UTL, what do you think about AI?

UTL, what do you think about AI?

I was a little turned off by his tunnel on PK, simply because I feel like he's feeding right into PK's obnoxious game. However, it seems like he's trying to engage with him more now, instead of just poke at him, which I like. He's asked people who aren't really giving much out about their reads, including you. I really don't see anything scummy with him wanting to hear from you before explaining his reads, as at that point you really hadn't given much. Has to be a give and take, ya know? Overall, I'm leaning town on him.

(I'd still like to know about his flip flop on me.)


Heat, might I ask why you like me for town?

UTL started out with some

really strong analysis

that I liked, and I do agree with a lot of her views on players, namely keysor and Pk.

She also has an Asuna avatar and I'm SAO trash so

Really strong analysis? What does that even mean? You mean this post down here?

Let’s talk about this wagon on PK. Burning and Ras voted him in RVS, then AI jumps on the wagon, changing his vote from Ircher to PK “because he’s scum.” He later lists his reasons, where Keyser “feels like sheeping this” and jumps on too, at which point PK just gives up and selfvotes putting himself at L-2 because he doesn’t care and this game is dumb. Ircher now wants to lynch him based on his poor attitude (but isn’t doing anything about it?).

AI’s reasons for voting him aren’t bad. PK has been at him with nothing of substance, with no sense of real intent. Unless, of course, he was just trying to see what reaction he could get out of the guy that, at the time, wasn’t really contributing much either. If that’s the case, it worked. He definitely got a reaction.

What’s really bothering me is the selfvote. He says he doesn’t care about this game, and yet, he doesn’t want to let somebody who does sub in for him. At this point, we’re put in a crappy situation. If we Policy Lynch like Ircher is suggesting, he may flip town and we’re already down on day 1, which isn't a good start. If we don’t and he survives the night, he may just continue with his current level of participation (or lack thereof) and draining attitude.

I guess what I want to know, PK, is what exactly is your intent with the selfvote?

What parts of the post do you like? Do you agree that we should PL PK? Why?

@UTL I may have missed it but what's your read on AI , for pushing on your demise? You voted Ircher instead of AI.

You know, I really don’t get his vote on me. He says I’m opportunistic, but I don’t get how. If that were the case, there are a couple of wagons I could have jumped on, but didn’t, because I wasn’t 100% comfortable with them. I reread some things, and decided to see if I could get a reaction out of him as to maybe lend some insight into his thought process. He has been defending Ircher all game, no great reasons why. So, I decided to put pressure on Ircher to see 1) how he would react and 2) if he would give any more insight as to why he’s so sure Ircher is town.

He dodges getting asked about his reads on me by PK, decides Droog is town, and moves his vote off of me to pressure Boon

. No real insight here. But then we get this:

The town-Ircher I know from Newbie 1666 is extremely open about his views, even when they are sometimes contradictory, or controversial.

I know this, because I was the scum framing him for his mistakes. We lynched Ircher in LYLO and won the game.

I am not going to let that happen now that I am town.

@Ircher, why is UTL opportunistic? Is he taking advantage of something? Explain.[/spoiler2]

I highlighted "I want to lynch AI" and "push me" because it seemed like Heat was omgusing slightly and I wanted to make a mental note of his push on AI.

Ircher's "self-voting is bad and objectively scummy" was something that I disagreed with. I've seen town self-vote and hammer themselves just because they're annoyed/tired of shit.

The UTL part was because it struck me as slightly scummy. That's why I highlighted that; it was more to do with his reasoning rather than anything else.

[Golden Robster]

Raskolnikov

(7):

Keyser Söze

, massive, AxleGreaser, Performer, pisskop, Ircher, droog
Ircher (1): Boonskiies
AlwaysInnocent (1): Heat
Heat (1):

UpTooLate

Boon was nowhere near the Ras wagon at the start and may I add that Heat was still on AI at that time. UTL was voting Heat, but this could be scum voting scum. I'll give Heat some town cred for that.

Massive/Axle are all leaning town for me just for being second and third on that wagon.

Note that Boon was nowhere near the Ras wagon. Ircher/Droog/PK were on the latter parts of the wagon.

Performer

(6): Boonskiies, AxleGreaser,

UpTooLate

, Heat, Golden Robster, massive
UpTooLate (4):

Keyser Söze

, Ircher,

Performer

, pisskop

I put my hand up and say I played some part in the performer lynch but let's take a look first.

Boon was adamant on the Performer lynch. Heat might have also been trying for the mislynch on Performer.

I'm giving town points to Ircher for that.

PK on the otherhand switched his vote quite suddenly, and I'm not sure of what to make of that.

Golden Robster (3): Boonskiies, AxleGreaser, Ircher

UpTooLate

(3):

RadiantCowbells

, Heat, Golden Robster
RadiantCowbells (1): pisskop

I'm giving town cred to Heat for the vote on UTL. Obviously this could be scum Heat realising that UTL is on his last legs.

I believe that scum Boon tried for the mislynch on me and when he realised that I wasn't getting lynched, he panicked and switched to UTL and hammered him. Note that Boon was also the one leading the Performer wagon as well.

UpTooLate

(5):

RadiantCowbells

, Heat, Golden Robster, pisskop, Boonskiies

Now look at his reads before the UTL flip.

RadiantCowbells
pisskop
AxleGreaser
massive

UpTooLate
Heat

Ircher

Golden Robster

He had UTL as leaning town and here.

PK/RC, not axle anymore.

Probably UTL

.

This quote was when he was listing off people who were confirmed town. "Probably UTL."

I could see a potential Golden/Heat team.

Giving Heat town points for this. Scum Boon could easily implicate me and Heat.

Another thing I want to point out was that there was little to no interaction between Boon and UTL. NOTHING WHATSOEVER.

And the last thing that tops it aaaaalll off is this comment.

Everyone else, if UTL is scum, you lynch GR tomorrow.

He was reading UTL as leaning to town for most of the game. So why would he come out with such a bizarre statement about UTL flipping scum and lynching me afterwards.

He knows that UTL would flip scum, and again, tries to push the suspicion onto me. "I'm probably dead tonight" bullshit.

I'm pretty sure PK is town.

I want a lynch on Boon.

You're reads have been pretty darn wrong apart from the obvious town.

Defend.
Yourself.

VOTE: Boonskiies

[Golden Robster]

I highlighted "I want to lynch AI" and "push me" because it seemed like Heat was omgusing slightly and I wanted to make a mental note of his push on AI.

Ircher's "self-voting is bad and objectively scummy" was something that I disagreed with. I've seen town self-vote and hammer themselves just because they're annoyed/tired of shit.

The UTL part was because it struck me as slightly scummy. That's why I highlighted that; it was more to do with his reasoning rather than anything else.

So...
instead of making notes somewhere else you put them in spoiler, in the thread?
(FYI: You can Pm yourself you know)
and you noted things, that you merely disagreed with such as Irchers statement, but scant say they were even particularly alignment indicative?

Please explain how UTL's "He dodges getting asked about his reads on me by PK, decides Droog is town, and moves his vote off of me to pressure Boon."
is "slightly scummy"

Yes because it's called opinion good sir?

WHY WOULD I BE CRITICISING MY SCUM BUDDY SO EARLY ON, ARE YOU ON DRUGS?

He dodges getting asked about his reads on me by PK, decides Droog is town, and moves his vote off of me to pressure Boon. No real insight here. But then we get this:

Performer didn't dodge his reads.

Droog was town to me at that point.

Pressuring someone is a good thing.

No real insight my ass.

[Golden Robster]

AND HERE. LOOK. UTL JUST SOFT DEFENDED BOON WITH THAT POST.

LIKE WTF.

[Golden Robster]

and moves his vote off of me to pressure Boon.

[Golden Robster]

okay fine bad word choice, i got heated up in the moment where i was posting my comment

Why would I be bringing attention*

I didn't want to lynch AI today. When did I say that? And don't bring up any insinuation bullshit.

You are making pointless assumptions that I could be scum communicating blah blah.

Let's face it; you're stubborn.

[Golden Robster]

okay fine bad word choice, i got heated up in the moment where i was posting my comment

Why would I be bringing attention*

I didn't want to lynch AI today. When did I say that? And don't bring up any insinuation bullshit.

You are making pointless assumptions that I could be scum communicating blah blah.

Let's face it; you're stubborn.

[Golden Robster]

soz for that double post

[Golden Robster]

Why would I be bringing

attention

*

I didn't want to lynch AI today. When did I say that? And don't bring up any insinuation bullshit.

You are making pointless assumptions that I could be scum communicating blah blah.

Let's face it; you're stubborn.

It didnt bring any

attention

. You had question at Ircher inside spoiler. You never brought any attention to it by asking him to you know answer it.
You had other rhetorical questions in there.
You claim the highlighting in there was more of personal mote taking kind of thing.

That all seems wrong and made up.

I am suggesting the highlighting was communication.

So no they are not pointless and not assumptions they are the most likely interpretation of events that i have found.

Yes they are pointless. Because that's like me saying, "Er yeah Axle is probably scum because he's been communicating with his scum buddys about tunnelling them beforehand."

They are assumptions.

[Golden Robster]

I'm starting to believe they killed off RC because he was the only one who believed that I was town.

[Golden Robster]

Let's assume for a moment that once I flip town, the most likely lynch is something like heat.

Lynch GR (flip town) ---> kill axle ----> lynch heat (flip town) ---> kill someone

At this point I want a lynch on boon. Cause I'm pretty sure it's him if it's not heat.

Someone do an ISO analysis of ircher as well.

[Golden Robster]

Indeed; i'm willing to go down as long as town follow that lynch pattern.

[Golden Robster]

I'd prefer Boon over heat but w/e

[Golden Robster]

meh, you're wrong but w/e

lynch boon then heat after i die

[Golden Robster]

^

That's why I want a lynch on you.

[Golden Robster]

Ircher, massive, GR
I have three lynches for you right there

And I'm not surprised that you're still scum reading me, I just wanted to know where you're at. Id be a bit more suspicious if you suddenly dropped the scum read of me.

This is exactly correct. The final scum is in that 3.

I'm curious to hear why you think Massive is scum?

Has something dramatically changed about your perception of massive that has made you change him from town to scum?

RadiantCowbells
pisskop
AxleGreaser
massive

UpTooLate
Heat

Ircher

Golden Robster

this is where I am right now. Need to pay more attention to Heat/U2L

[Golden Robster]

Nah, you are totally scum man.

I want a lynch on Boon once I flip cause you're not winning that easily.

[Golden Robster]

LOOK AT THIS SHIT.

HE WANTS A MASS CLAIM AT THIS POINT SO HE CAN GO FOR THE PR's.

HOW SCUMMY IS THAT SHIT.

[Golden Robster]

I propose a GR lynch ---> Boon lynch ----> (Whoever)

[Golden Robster]

@PK
RC was NK'd.

We're lynching GR today.

no

[Golden Robster]

Can we just lynch GR, these shenanigans are making me think GR is town.... which is bad.

u're unflexible about your reads.

honestly, broaden your view

[Golden Robster]

And again, I want a lynch on Boon.

Stating that clearly/

[Golden Robster]

@PK
Let's lynch GR first. We still have 2 more lynches if GR is town.

No.

[Golden Robster]

yup i'm cool with this

[Golden Robster]

Thanks for modding Dierfire!