for being original
Mini 495 - Mafia on a Plane! GAME OVER! =)
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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So you add a fourth vote to someone that is eager to lynch. You may want to look at your own track record. This fourth vote comes on p.2 on your second post approximately 1hr after you have even begun to read the thread, and one post after you sayOman wrote:Okay.
1) Originality looks BAD! Contradiction,eager to lynch, LEAPS to defence. Almost worth a -2 vote.
2) If Originality is scum I'd be expecting a coach in there. But everyone looked clean.
3)Vote: orginalityI just want to see what pops up scum should jump on him
"Hey Mr. Kettle, you're black" said the pot.Oman wrote:Hey the game started!
I'm here, I'll read the last 7 posts and post my random vote.
FoS Oman-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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O that's right a scum would never try to provide evidence to protect themselves. Only a townie would do that.Oman wrote:Elais, highlight my post. You'll see there is somesize 1 white text at the end that clearly states I was only looking for scum to jump on.Yes, i was taking the oppertunity, but not to lynch orginiality, but to see if I could catch the scum.
I unvoted when that didn't happen.
@originality, have you played this game online before, and how long did games typically last at that site if you have?-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Yeah I know that, I'm basically just saying that putting little tiny white text saying this is a trap could be done by either side as it is premeditated. In my mind it has no bearing on the action itself. If I really wanted to get WIFOMy, I could reason that it was a scum signal for your "partners" not to bandwagon the vote to. But either way, I don't think the white text matters one way or another.Oman wrote: And Shaft.ed, you're right, scum do try to give evidence, but mostly scum give evidence after they've been caught out, to explain themselves. I stated my intentions at the time of the vote.
This is a very big stretch. I've not noticed a single OMGUS attack. He just pointed out his little white text and explained why he thought this exonerated him.lucienne wrote:First off, Oman is my top suspect because of his highly opportunistic vote, and his OMGUS attack on Shaf.ted.
Also he put originality at -3 not -2 he was the fourth vote on seven to lynch. Elias voted prior and miscounted saying his vote was actually the -3 when it was in fact the -4. Please do not misrepresent peoples votes.Lucienne wrote:THe way you put originality at minus 2 on page 2 was suspect
All this adds up to aFoS Luciennefor taking Oman actions obviously out of context in order to build your case against him.
I need to read more before commenting further on other players. But I feel that orig just misplayed page one, and a bandwagon formed super fast. I personally think there's more information in the bandwagon than what set if off, but some of his defense seems a bit off. And just because someone seems to be a little green, doesn't mean they can't be scum.
Man this game has too many suspicious people.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Looks like things are going to slow down a bit. With two players out till the weekend (hope everything goes OK for you guys btw), and Karen hasn't shown up yet.mod did you have any luck with a replacement?
Anyway,
@spurgistan, yeah I noticed that weird spurgistan, shaft.ed comment but didn't know what it meant. Also didn't notice any OMGUS on you either, so no matter which way that goes it's unfounded.
I really didn't gain a whole lot from the bandwagoning of originality. Its always hard to tell how much weight to give votes on page 1. No mafia would realistically think they could move for a bandwagon that fast. And if they did, it would be very incriminating.
I do think if anyone was a townie setting a 'quicklynch' trap it was Elias since as soon as Oman got his vote on originality, Elias swtiches his vote to Oman, a more likely play than tiny white letters. Though the reasoning leaves a bit to be desired.
Elias wrote:Oman in his last post clearly seemed to think that Originality got to -2...So why does he say that Originality is almost worth a -2 vote, yet does it anyways? Hmm. Not to mention his vote looks opportunistic. vote: Oman.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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I agree that claiming town is not a strong scumtell. Personally I think it's a much stronger newbtell. But Dr. Black appears to have been active here for long enough to know better. Maybe he just hasn't played as mafia yetFoS Dr. Black
I'm also 100% certain now that VampanezeHunter is lurking. He posts very heavily in the nongame forums but can't show up in game.
unvote vote VampanezeHunterto draw him out of the woodwork.
I will remove if you manage to post something substantial.
Pretty sure its grateful. www.dictionary.com is your friend.Lucienne wrote:Apologies for using this thread as English practice, but can someone tell me the correct spelling of "greateful"? It is one word I continually cannot spell in english.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Wow. I think he's going for the so insanely erratic play so that you have no usable read on him strategy. He could be pro-town he could be anti who knows. He could be an asset he could be a liability no way to tell.
I was with you through this part.
I've seen this done many atime from newer players. It's very common for people to think that everyone's going to claim V. townie, what's the big deal.Dr. Blackstrike wrote:Yeah, I thought it would be the sort of claim that had no merit, because everyone might do it.
And I don't think you can be anything in that range. You're playing in a mini-normal. A townie that can't hammer isDr. Blackstrike wrote:-Doc "I claimed non-vinilla, which could be anything from scum to a townie who can't hammer" Blackstrikeunlikely to exist in such a game.very
majorFoS Dr. Blackstrike
I don't think I'm going to bother voting for you though, because I'd be amazed if the mafia don't NK you after this performance.
And Vampaneze how many times can one person post "I'm looking into it" with out actually doing anything?-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Some Random Thoughts
I'm very surprised this mantra is getting repeated over and over again. This is completely reverse of reality. Oman ended up taking heatAlyG wrote:@VampenezeHunter: Yeah your right it seems that Oman may be trying to attack other people to get the heat off him.he was attacking people.because
FoS AlyG VampanezeHunter dybeckfor perpetuating this falsehood.
Please point to example of jumping on easy bandwagon(dybeck wrote:'Jumping on easy bandwagons to save your own ass' is scummy and that's what you're being accused of. FOS: Oman for misrepresentation.). We all remember originality, but where's the rest? Yes I know you clarified this later, but you're first quote clearly states that you are also accusing him of bandwagoning. AnothersFoS dybeckas long as FoS's are getting passed out for misrepresentation.
If it's that important to you why haven't you unvoted him?AlyG wrote:Guys please don't lynch Vampeneze hunter until he's given an explanation. If he doesn't in the next weeks i'm fine with it though. Just give him a chance to explain first.
WHy are you feeling pressured to vote, who brought this up in regards to you? And how convenient you chose the biggest bandwagon.originality wrote:Well, Im feeling rather pressured into voting for someone.
As I explained, VH is seeming the most suspicious here, so im going to tip the balance by vote VampanezeHunter.FoS originality
All toll I'm getting a bad feeling from dybeck.
unvote Vamp vote dybeck-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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I know you didn't ask me, but I've been slightly defending Oman recently because a number of people are attacking him with false claims while he's got a bandwagon going. Such activities are most likely perpetrated by mafia, so I think it is likely at least one of said attackers is scum.Dr. Blackstrike wrote:Oman: What do you say if I say that you and shaft.ed look like a pair?
-Doc "You haven't seem to considered that yet" Blackstrike
I'm still suspicious of him due to his first stating on p.2 that he was trying to fuel a bandwagon as a scum trap, but then avoiding such a play on VampanezeHunter on p.6 because he didn't want to lynch "so early." But with a minimum of six candidates for likely scum in this game, I cannot sit by and watch someone get bandwagoned over false claims. There are just too many valid reasons to go after people right now to be inventing them.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Nice analysis Carrotcake. I was a bit suspicious of AlyG as well. I'll have to ponder this for a bit.Carrotcake wrote:On AlyG --- after a short read of posts
- Very aggressive against originality, he attacks "lets lynch the lurkers" over a series of posts. AlyG then attacks originality after listening to general reasoning, and changing his mind. Not really scummy, but it seems to be bloodthirsty. This worries me as it seems like bullying an easy target. Getting an easy lynch.
- "And originality, if you don't come up with a good defence i'll be voting for you which means you'll already at 4 votes. Not good. " - AlyG
"you shouldn't be so eager to put votes on people. He was already on 3 votes and getting to 4 on the 2nd page is going a bit to far. " -AlyG to Oman
You yourself threatened to cast the fourth vote, but you attack Oman for doing it instead of you. You seem to care too much about the placement of your own votes, as if you are avoiding something.
- Voted for vamp, on the grounds of lurking.
- "Guys please don't lynch Vampeneze hunter until he's given an explanation." Even while you still have a vote on him. Afraid to look wishy washy if you keep voting unvoting? Or would you like to use this as water to wash your hands clean if he did come up as town?
- " And Dr. Blackstrike who's role claiming is really destroying our chances of winning. " Is really destroying seems to be an exaggeration. Invoking hate against Blackstrike.
- You do not switch your votes around. You already know about being wishy washy, so you might be working to avoid vote switching. You do however call out plenty of suspects while seemingly relying on what other people to dig deeper. Planning to cause confusion? You do explain your reasons, but it hardly feels like your own.
- Hey wait a moment, I think im seeing the same post twice , oh well I have written quite a bit already so I might as well just post it
Vote: AlyG
for spreading confusion and hate
I have to intense studying to in to, this is my last long post for a while (even if the quality is quite low). I can still post small snippets though!
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Post #1Lucienne wrote:
Wrong.shaft.ed wrote:
I again invoke the pot and the kettle. "Hey Mr. Kettle, you're black" said the pot. Seriously you don't have a post over two lines long in this whole thread.Lucienne wrote:Meanwhile
vote: Dr. Blackstrike
Seriously, what has he actually done through the game, except coast and say basically nothing?
Here's some examples of posts, not only more than 2 lines long, but where I am scum-hunting. My Post 1, 3, 4 and 9 are all examples.
Conversely, Dr. B has done no scum-hunting. That is scummy.
Dr. B has not been scum-hunting for the entire game. That is scummy.
I'll assume this isn't what you meant by post 1 so here's what I believe you inted to represent Post #1Lucienne wrote:Sorry, just got online. I tried logging on on Sunday, but it failed to recognise my username or something. Anyhoo here I am.
Ok first two lines are talking about your gender. Then you have a grand total of four lines with two points. First point is attacking originality for his play in the random stage. And I'll give you point two as a valid argument against Oman.Lucienne wrote:Firstlt, carrotcake called me a boy.
How man boys called Lucienne do you know?
On more pressing matters, I`m not liking originiality for his lurker voting, and opinions that there are no strong reasons for voting. His opinions are entirely flawed here - voting on Day 1 can be strong and for good reasons, and similarly voting for lurkers is not a good strategy in this scenario. I disagree that not posting on confirming for around 2 days is inherent lurking.
That said, I`m not liking Oman`s vote here, as he basically adds nothing yet puts him to -2. Seems like some early scum bandwagoning to me.
Post #3
One line saying you can't use quotes. Another line devoted to a false argument against Oman for OMGUS'ing me. And two lines for your current argument against the crazy Dr. We'll give you three lines of content with one being false information.Lucienne wrote:Whoopie, i cannot get my quotes to work.
First off, Oman is my top suspect because of his highly opportunistic vote, and his OMGUS attack on Shaf.ted.
vote: Oman
Also am pretty suspicious of Dr. Blackstrike, since the only things I have seen him do so far are vote or finger suspicion at originality and Oman, the two people who have been the biggest "suspicion getters" at this point.
FOS: Dr Blackstrike
Post #4
Line one is attempting to correct your false argument against Oman claiming he FoS'd me, saying you mixed up me and sprugistan. Only problem is he didn't OMGUS either of us. You then spend three lines attacking Oman with a justifiable argument (plus one line of quotation). So we'll give you four lines on that one with one being another false argument.Lucienne wrote:Gah! spurgistan, shaf.ted. oops.
Nonetheless, I still think you are the scumiest. THe way you put originality at minus 2 on page 2 was suspect, and your recent claims that I am in cahoots with Dr B are fairly ludicrous and without any real evidence is suspect.
Uh, no. Nice try.Oman wrote:You're reaching here, I suggest that vote was just to get on the latest bandwagon.
You can quite clearly see my post 33, where I am the first person to notice and call suspicion on your vote. So no, joining the bandwagon is quite a fruitless accusation against me.
Post #9
Only seeing two lines of content here.Lucienne wrote:Wow.
FoS:originality
I find it quite convenient that he felt "pressured" into voting for someone and, oh gosh, just happened to pick the person who had the most votes at the time.
He really was adding to the bandwagon, without actually explaining anything.
Die scum
So I stand corrected you have two posts with four lines and one post with three. I'm not saying Dr. Black isn't crazy suspicious, and that you haven't pointed out another reason to think so. I'm just letting you know that your reasoning is applicable to other posters.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Are you trying to get killed? Now that you've set up the "mafia will leave me as lynch bait excuse", you know that if you survive the night we're very likely to lynch you tommorow (assuming you don't get lynched today) because this screams of you setting up an excuse for surviving a NK.Dr. Blackstrike wrote: At the moment I'm hoping to get out of nightkill because I'm a likely lynch. (The mafia doesn't want to kill lynch bait, right?)
Now the fact that I've said that means it won't work, right? Maybe yes and maybe no. We'll see.
Maybe you can try commenting while you read this time.Dr. Blackstrike wrote:*sighs* Looks like I need to re-read.
And you're again pseudoclaiming, threatening the town with a loss of a power role if you are killed. You know all of us playingDr. Blackstrike wrote:And finally: I understand I look suspious. Heck, I'd probably vote me at this point. But you guys shouldn't, because if I'm a powerrole, I'd have to claim, and if I'm a townie, I'd have to lie. And that just ain't cool.couldbe a powerrole. You're freaking crazy. I still support the strategy of letting you survive day 1 and if you make it to day 2 you'll be my first, second and third candidate for a lynch.
I hope you're town if your plan is working.Dr. Blackstrike wrote:"My evil plan is working"-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Told ya so Dr. B.dybeck wrote:
This is quite simply the scummiest thing I have ever read in all the time I've ever played mafia.Dr. Blackstrike wrote:At the moment I'm hoping to get out of nightkill because I'm a likely lynch. (The mafia doesn't want to kill lynch bait, right?)
Now the fact that I've said that means it won't work, right? Maybe yes and maybe no. We'll see.
You're deliberately acting scummy so you don't get nightkilled? And now... when miraculously you don't get nightkilled, this is going to be your excuse for the rest of the game?
No way. No way in the world.
If he is in fact town we're screwed, because the mafia don't need to NK him after this performance he'll be lynched by tommorow at the latest if he survives the night. And he's so blatanly setting himself up as unNKable that us townies can't let him live even if he may have in fact been useful.
I still say we lynch him tommorow because if he's not mafia he's basically claimed a powerrole that might be useful this evening, but that's just MHO. Actually...even if he claims a powerrole tommorow after miraculously surviving the night, there's no way we can trust him on it.
FoS Dr. Blackstrike, probably moving to a vote after I ponder the utility of powerroles that I don't trust. And thanks for the terrible play if you are in fact town.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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I agree with you Lucienne. We have no way to trust Dr. B. It seems a consensus that he needs to be lynched today or tommorow. I'm just trying to figure out what the benefit of keeping him around could be given that he has basically claimed (although not very truthfully) and that the scum won't go after him given that they can be almost positive he will be lynched by D2.
I think this is a dangerous topic for anyone to discuss as I think it will look hella scummy, but I think it needs to be said out in the open. Here are the likely possibilities for powerroles:
Cop: Can't trust him so this role would be useless unless he comes up cop after lynching. Best-case scenario = one investigation if he's kept until D2, compared to 0 after D1.
Doc: If kept until D2 1 in 11 chance that he will prevent a townie death given 1 NK, if a SK exists this will go up to about 1 in 5, compared to 0 in 11 or 0 in 5 without the Doc.
Vig: Townie driven NK from a demonstrable crazy guy. I would say this is probably the worst case scenario as his odds of hitting town are greater than hitting scum.
Roleblocker: 1 in 11 chance to block a mafia NK, also 1 in 11 chance to block SK if we have one. Counter that with 1 in 11 chance to block Cop investigation and 1 in 11 chance to block Doc protection (though his chances of actually hitting a useful target combined with the Roleblockers chances make this fairly moot). This is basically similar to having a Doc for a day, but with the drawback of possible cop-blocking.
I'm still on the fence with this one and agree pretty heartily with Carrotcake that our suspect list is nearly 12 players long at this point. Still not sure what to do about Dr. B-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Your both wrong
You've got to be kidding me. He's said that he's playing very scummy so that the mafia won't NK him. How can you get more serious than this? It basically excuses his previous scummy behavior and gives a reason for not getting NK'd.Elias_the_thief wrote:He's not even that seriously suspicious
Then he says no matter what happens he's claiming a powerrole even if he has to lie. So we know if he claims it won't be vanilla townie, and if he claims a powerrole there's a good chance he's lying. Basically what dybeck seems to be after is salvaging what he can from a possible townie that looks incredibly likely to be lynched that has claimed a powerrole. While I don't agree completely with this tactic I can understand a town making it. On the other hand, I imagine scum are just as confused with Dr. B as we are. They might want to rolefish a bit more before they target him at night.
You know this is not true. I'm really amazed that you are espousing such fundamentally flawed tactics. Not surprising after your legally disclaimered scum trap.Oman wrote:No, I don't buy that. Info helps town, no matter what.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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ryan, welcome to the game, nice to see someone join who is likely to be a good and consistant contributor.
I don't think the early bandwagon was justified IMHO. His reasoning was a little odd for p.1, but at the time I really thought this could be explained by non-familiarity with the pace of games on this board (ie much slower than others). But his play has alerted me fairly consistantly over the course of the game, it's just been drowned out by Dr. B's antics and the 4 or more other contenders for scum we've had. If I get time today I'll get in a reread focusing on originality among other candidates.ryan wrote:Vote: originality
I still haven't figured out why the early bandwagon on him was allowed to die, I think he's a suitable place for some more pressure as his defense didn't really sit well with me.
I have to add I'm a bit discomfitted by two posters in a row stating "let's lynch originality today and string up Dr. B tommorow". Sounds a bit like a scum two-fer to me.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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I'll admit my bad on this one. I've read back over your and my posts and I am doing some word twisting here. I hate people that do that. I'm still not clearing AlyG though its possible he's setting up a two-fer.ryan wrote:I am of the "lynch all liars" way of mafia. If he's lying about his role than he deserves to be taken out on Day 2. If he's being honest I don't anticipate him making it through Night 1 (the scum will see to that) Don't try and twist my words to make my statement a scummy one-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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ryan, could you make a quick comment on your predecessor's play. I realize there wasn't much of any detail but here's one of his more substantial posts from p.6
And I've read back over the thread again. Not seeing anything substantial in originality's early play this time either. To me his biggest issue was when he posted that he felt pressured into voting for VH. This itself is odd, but what is weird to me is that VH was under attack, had a bandwagon forming, and was contributing hardly anything to the thread. Since the lynching lurker's points had already been made, I'm kind of uneasy about why he'd make the same choice for a vote. Especially one of more weight than his p.1 vote had.VampanezeHunter wrote:Ok I've just read through and I'm finding Oman most suspicious here. This is because he is pretty much defending himself with an attack. That is scummy IMO. Also Orginallity is probably second on my list because at the start he was all over the place. Making scummy moves. Those were contradicting himself, keen to lynch and also he seemed to look quite aggressive. That's not a scum tell but it kind of makes me suspicious. I don't know why. One more thing. Did anyone actually see what the size one writing said? Anyway that seemed scummy for me. Ok I'm done. If that's not enough tell me. Also do I need to roleclaim yet?-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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No reason to kill yourself over craplogic either. You may think you've outed scum, but generally the beginings of the bandwagon are primarily townies. Thus, we're not likely getting any useful information out of you suicide "I told you so" tantrum. You were effectively arguing withryan wrote:
No problem at allshaft.ed wrote:Are you freaking retarded? You had at most 4 votes on yourself, one of which is the threads accepted crazy guy, and now your getting yourself modkilled?
Thanks for helping so much.No reason to put up a defense against craplogic.Feel free to look very closely at the idiots who put their best foot forward though. Good luck town, you'll need it.people in the town and decided to kill yourself becuase they wouldn't play nice nice, when you were the one that started with the hostile tone.3
This is just freaking ridiculous.
Anyway, I don't know how modkills work very well. Does this mean that a lynch has not happened, and the only consequence on today's activities is that only 6 votes are now needed to lynch or does the modkill substitute for a lynch in which case it is now twilight and we shan't be posting?-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Wait I got a great idea. originality can kill himself too to prove to you that he's a townie and your stupid pissing match will be over and the town can be down two players. [/sarcasm]
This is a team game. You don't win when you were 'right' on one single point. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
There fixed that for you.ryan wrote:Please remove your head from your ass before you kill yourself.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Well AlyG, Carrotcake was most adamant in going after you. I'm surprised you wouldn't remember that.
FoS AlyG
Carrotcake post 202 wrote:On AlyG --- after a short read of posts
- Very aggressive against originality, he attacks "lets lynch the lurkers" over a series of posts. AlyG then attacks originality after listening to general reasoning, and changing his mind. Not really scummy, but it seems to be bloodthirsty. This worries me as it seems like bullying an easy target. Getting an easy lynch.
- "And originality, if you don't come up with a good defence i'll be voting for you which means you'll already at 4 votes. Not good. " - AlyG
"you shouldn't be so eager to put votes on people. He was already on 3 votes and getting to 4 on the 2nd page is going a bit to far. " -AlyG to Oman
You yourself threatened to cast the fourth vote, but you attack Oman for doing it instead of you. You seem to care too much about the placement of your own votes, as if you are avoiding something.
- Voted for vamp, on the grounds of lurking.
- "Guys please don't lynch Vampeneze hunter until he's given an explanation." Even while you still have a vote on him. Afraid to look wishy washy if you keep voting unvoting? Or would you like to use this as water to wash your hands clean if he did come up as town?
- " And Dr. Blackstrike who's role claiming is really destroying our chances of winning. " Is really destroying seems to be an exaggeration. Invoking hate against Blackstrike.
- You do not switch your votes around. You already know about being wishy washy, so you might be working to avoid vote switching. You do however call out plenty of suspects while seemingly relying on what other people to dig deeper. Planning to cause confusion? You do explain your reasons, but it hardly feels like your own.
- Hey wait a moment, I think im seeing the same post twice , oh well I have written quite a bit already so I might as well just post it
Vote: AlyG
for spreading confusion and hate
I have to intense studying to in to, this is my last long post for a while (even if the quality is quite low). I can still post small snippets though!-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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I also like the way you are priming everyone for the "LOOK EVERYONE DR. B'S STILL ALIVE!!" I'm not saying I believe Dr. Blackstrike, I'm just saying if he is town, that's exactly what scum would want to start the day with.AlyG wrote:Oh Snap...Blackstrike wasn't NKed, we ate up his claim, he hasn't helped us at all and now i believe his claim was a lie. He is probably scum.FOS: Dr. BlackstrikeI've got to re-read the thread now to try and get an understanding of who may have wanted the NK Carrotcake or Spurgistan.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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I FoS'd you because you were saying "Oh golly Gee, I wonder who CarrotCake was connected to?" You were the only person she ever had strong opinions on. If you didn't say anything I wouldn't have bothered connecting her death to you because of the endless WIFOM that goes on in such a situation. But your quick post wondering what may have happened to her, when you should remember those who vote for you, raised my eyebrows.AlyG wrote: So you FOS'd me because you think that the person most likely to kill Carrot Cake was me because she had suspicion of me? If i was mafia which i'm not, why of all people to kill would i pick CarrotCake? the only person who had suspicions of me, wouldn't that look to obvious?-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Welcome to the game vollkan. Nice to have you in another of my mini's. Saves typing since I can postI agree with vollkanmore often than not.
Anyway, pretty good analysis of the game thus far. Two major things discomfitted me however.
1) While I agree that AlyG's play was a bit questionable in the first day, you paint it as glaringly scummy. A lot of this analysis is based on AlyG attacking obviously newbish plays, but you fail to take into account that AlyG is in fact also new to the site. It seems that some of his heartened attacks could also be made from a new players perspective. For this reason, I am definitely suspicious of AlyG, but the way you paint him as obvo-scum is a bit over the top.
2) You hardly even mention Dr. Blackstrike's play at all. I also meta'd him and think I understand what he's doing to some extent, but for god's sake he basically said "I'm acting like scum, therefore I won't be NK'd like scum because the scum are setting me up not because I am scum." This deserves and FoS no matter what you meta'd on him.
Combining these points with the fact that we got absolutely no read on your predecesor D1 and I am a tiny bit suspicious of you.mFoS vollkan
@AlyG, I don't have time to go over everything PBP right now. But as others have pointed out your defense is a bit lacking. I'll try to get back with specifics so my argument amounts to more than "you're just scummy."
@Dr. Blackstrike, I would very much like to hear from you.
@dybeck
?Que pasa?dybeck wrote:
If shaft.ed is not the serial killer I will eat my hat.shaft.ed wrote:Wow this is great, first we get a shortened D1, now it looks like there's probably a SK in the game.
vote: shaft.ed
@Lucienne
It's my first reaction because I was already upset that Retarded Ryan basically pissed away D1 for us. Then the new day begins with the added bonus of having two killing roles, which makes the game much more difficult for the town.Lucienne wrote:
I'm puzzled that this was your first reaction.shaft.ed wrote:Wow this is great, first we get a shortened D1, now it looks like there's probably a SK in the game.
@Oman
You're right it doesn't look good. This entire game you've been jumping from one wagon to the next. Now you see vollkan enter the game and provide a strong case against AlyG and the first thing you do is jump aboard.Oman wrote:Sigh, this is not going to look good after vollkan got into me for defending but:
Vote AlyG
That post sat all wrong with me. It was basically saying "look, doctor blackstrike is still alive, lets lynch him" when there are many possibilities:
1) He could be scum lieing to us (Possible)
2) He could be a doc, protecting the wrong person (Possible)
3) He could have forgotten to send in a night choice (unlikely)
4) He could have been RBed (unlikely, though possible)
5) He could be any other role like a cop/hider/tracker that we don't see the results of (possible (likely))
6) The scum didn't kill him in the hope that some would say what you did, or to say it themselves (likely)
So there are 6 options, and you only looked at one.FoS Oman-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Seems someone put the breaks on this game. We've got to perform really well today if we want to take out scum. I'd estimate we've got 6 town, a SK and 2 mafia. That means we're going to need to get 5 out of 6 votes in the right place today. With a likely 1 in 3 chance of hitting anti-town players with our lynch. Guess the good news is we've still got our powerroles.
Right now I'd place AlyG and Oman at the top of my suspect list.
AlyG for reasons outlined above and Oman for his seeming opportunism.
I'd still like to hear from Dr.B about his "plan"
And I'd like to know what dybeck was talking about when he said I must be the SK?
I guess I don't have much to add, just trying to jumpstart conversation.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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My apologies. I just did a reread of Oman's posts and he is absolutely right. I thought originalty he was town and my reread reinforcd that.Oman wrote:Yeah shaft.ed, I'm so glad that my entire scumplan was to vote for AlyG after I planned that he make a horrible post and then stay there. My oppertunistic scumplan is gettin him under serious pressure.
:eye roll:
I've got to say my AlyG impression is looking worse after this last reread.
Waiting to here from some of the other players in this game. Particuarly Dr. BS. Care to give more thought behind your L-3 vote on ryan yesterday outside of him being an ass?-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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I 100% agree that this is usually a good tell, but I personally feel that it applies more towards pro-town powerroles than other game roles as SK's are generally trying to blend in. I also don't agree that said tell, in and of itself, is engouh to promote a lynch.dybeck wrote:The first person to mention a role after it's been revealed, or done good work, is very frequently it. And that's a real tell that you can take to the bank.
Do you know what else are good tells? Conflating an argument against someone based on very little evidence and projecting anti-town roles onto a person when there is incredibly little evidence. We have examples of both right here:
Nice projection there. Interchanging Serial Killer with shaft.ed. And per above it seems very anti-town to lynch someone over a single tell.dybeck wrote:Seriously though, if we lynch shaft.ed today, we are left with 7 alive tomorrow, and it's highly likely that 3 of them are mafia.
Oman wrote:Okay, but the role was not revealed. A KILLING ROLE was revealed, which means it could be (looking at the likely ones) a protown vig or an SK. Now, my comment was if he was involved in any way 10 to 1 he's say it was a protown vig.
Acutally dybeck's point is that since I said SK, I not only revealed that I must be the SK, but that the killing role must also be an SK. However, by this logic, it also would be to my benefit to have said "You suck vig" because then I'm outing myself as the killing role and also letting everyone know that I'm the vig. as you stated previously.
Actually I said that first:Oman wrote:Also, by your logic. Congradulations all pro-town memebers for not being NKed. I am now a confirmed Pro-town character due to my congradulating that role.
So I suppose I'm not only the SK but also all of the pro-town powerroles.shaft.ed wrote:Guess the good news is we've still got our powerroles.
No this makes absolutely no sense. While SK can kill mafia at night, odds are that he's going to hit a townie. It's very simple, you don't leave anti-town killing roles alive.dybeck wrote:Does any of this make sense? I am honestly just trying to act in the best interests of the town. I know it's counterintuitive to leave an SK alive, but it's a numbers game, and it makes sense to do it here.
Actually I have a feeling the SK would be pro-SK.dybeck wrote:I love the fact that you'd vote someone for being pro-SK though. Like they could be in a scum group with him
So we have dybeck conflating arguments, projecting anti-town roles, advocating for leavig the SK alive and.being admittedly pro-SK
I think my vote from yesterday is going right back where it was.
vote: dybeck-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Wow lots of developments over the evening. I'll start with a minor point towards dybeck:
First of all I was not being defensive, I was being offensive in pointing out the errors and mistakes of your post. And once again there you go with the projection. You argued the SK should not be lynched, not me. Since I'm not the SK and I'd prefer to see them dead, I strongly believe your argument is wrongheaded.dybeck wrote:Shaft.ed, I think you're the only person ever to get so defensive over somebody trying to persuade the town thatshould not be lynched.you
However, I realize the issue of a mislynch is horribly bad for us right now. And analyzing your past vote history I can see that you are very quick to toss votes and talk of lynching around to pressure people. Thus I willunvote dybeckas I see your play as pro-town, in that I would have made a similar accusation in your position and the weight you gave the accusation was a difference in playstyle.EGMEOY
Now on to AlyG. All I can say is WOW. I agree strongly with Oman and vollkan, my BS detector went through the roof when AlyG made that claim. What really really stood out like a sore thumb was this passage:
I really don't see the need for someone claiming with what seems to be a tight case (ie. I tracked a guy that targeted a dead person) to be so defensive and downright threatening in their claim post. It just doesn't make sense.AlyG wrote:And if you guys don't believe then go ahead and lynch me. I dare you. if you do then you have lost a valuable pro-town role.
I also agree with the sentiment that a tracker is a more rare role thus less likely to run into a counterclaim.
Also if I were in this position my first post of the day would have been all about how scummy originality is. His play put him as one of the most erratic in D1 and you very likely could have built up an argument against him without claiming. Heck you still could have built up an argument on this page without claiming. If you really were pro-town you'd do everything in your power to get your 'known scum' lynched without having to out yourself. But this is the first post today you even mention originality. In fact it comes only after your failed attempt of getting a Dr. Blackstrike bandwagon started.
Since the voting is so crucial today I'm going toHoS AlyGuntil we hear back from originality. This is seriously a hair's width from becoming a vote.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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You're right I should have said, that we either have an SK or an incredibly reckless/moronic vigilante that decided to gamble on a NK after a shortened D1 on which we have obsolutely zero evidence as to who may be mafia since no bandwagon got passed L-3. Seriously a vigilante kill on N1 is rare enough, only a complete and utter idiot would have attempted a NK after the amount of information that ryan allowed us to produce on D1.Lucienne wrote:
Yes. And I'm having trouble working out how "we have two killing roles" constitutes the same as "there is an SK."shaf.ted wrote:It's my first reaction because I was already upset that Retarded Ryan basically pissed away D1 for us. Then the new day begins with the added bonus of having two killing roles, which makes the game much more difficult for the town.
If there is anyone in this game that doesn't think we have an SK in it could they please raise their hand? I doubt we'll be seeing any.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Lucienne I'd also just unvote to make sure your vote isn't counted if you don't want it to be. We're in a precarious position right now.
I also agree Oman's vote is a bit odd. I had forgetten it preceeding AlyG's claim. Thanks for pointing that out.
Another thing I just realized. If AlyG does come up scum I think this very much implicates Dr. Blackstrike. AlyG started the Day against Blackstrike and now suddenly shifts to originality. I think this points out that Dr. BS is untouchable to AlyG if this is a set up to lynch an innocent.
And it looks as though I could argue all day on this SK comment. But after this game's over maybe I'll make a poll as to how many people would vig kill N1 after a shortened D1 as we had. I think it'll be below 5% maybe even 1%. I'm not talking perfect play here, I'm talking playing aboe the 5th percentile.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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So you're taking AlyG's word at 100% face value. Not a single thing in that post made you question the authenticity of their claim.dybeck wrote:Can somebody please tell me why are we going for the tracker and not the scum?
Is it upside-down day? Should I be walking around with shoes on my hand and gloves on my feet?
FoS dybeck-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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You sir are the most retarded vig I have ever seen in my life. Now do we believe one or either of these claims?
I guess you were right Lucienne.
I need to digest this whole episode. It's hurting my brain. So we have a scummy claim followed by a scummy counterclaim. Just not sure where to go from here.
I need to know the following from both AlyG and originality.
AlyG: Why did you wait to out originality and what prompted you to claim?
Why did you not either claim immediately or at least push for an originality lynch?
Why did you take such a defensive stance in your claiming post?
originality: Why would you kill anyone after a D1 with little to no usable information?
Is there any other reason we should believe you are a vig and not an SK or simple mafia?-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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EBWOP:
And why are you blaiming AlyG for outing you? I would have never suspected a vig of performing such a feat.originality wrote:AlyG- You are fu*@ing retarded. You should have kept your mouth shut, why the hell would you claim us two for no real reason?
And please let's lose the language especially when directing it towards our fellow players.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Nice to see some more thought going on and less jumping to votes.
Why did he kill anybody? I'm still mad about this (if he is the vig).Oman wrote:Vollkan, lets assume you're right. Orig is a vig.
Now: Why did he kill carrotcake?
I don't know how exotic this would be, but we can't be 100% sure of AlyG's alignment. It's mildly possible that AlyG is a scum tracker and orig is a town vig. So if orig is eventually cleared, I wouldn't let my guard down to AlyG completely. Do realize this is a far outish scenario.vollkan wrote:Our possible scenarios as I see them are as follows:
1) AlyG = Tracker; Orig = Vig: To me, the massive inconsistencies in their behaviours (which we have all noted) makes this seem unlikely.
2) AlyG = Tracker; Orig = Scum (Maf/SK): Very possible. There were only 2 kills yerstday so maybe Orig figured he would have to claim something. Doc, Cop or RB could risk a counter so vig possibly seemed safe, seeing as AlyG, the scummiest person, was not NKed. By that, I mean that vig probably seemed a safe claim to scum-Orig because AlyG, who was such obvious scum, was not NKed. If there was a vig, the vig would likely have targeted AlyG.
3) AlyG = Scum; Orig = Vig: I cannot see scum taking this particular gambit. It would be suicide to claim tracker and then randomly call someone out.
4) AlyG = Mafia; Orig = Mafia: I want this to be true. It would make so much sense given their behaviour, but it is impossible to substantiate without a counter-claim.
I'm surprised that we haven't had a counterclaim by now. I think this at least points out that either A) orig is in fact the vig or B) we don't have a vig in game. Tracker's are a bit more rare so I believe AlyG's claim, only way he is lying is if him and orig are scum partners. But there is absolutely NO need for them to run such a gambit. The scum were sitting pretty after the first round of death's. Also the odds of either of them being powerroles went up considerably when the first three out of the game came up vanilla townie's.
So from where I am sitting. I am 99% sure AlyG is in fact a tracker, maybe 85-90% sure he is town aligned.
I'm leaning towards believing originality. I really thought AlyG's original post was very scummy and I think after three other people came out against him, originality could have run a gambit in favor of taking down AlyG. Claiming vig (while more convenient in the long run) would basically confirm AlyG as the town tracker opening him up for possible Doc protections from the town and the chance to hit more scum at night. I don't see why he wouldn't bite on the chance to take down AlyG. Also as has been pointed out by vollkan and Oman, originality has basically signed himself up for a NK with his claim either way.
Here are my scenarios I will assume that we don't have any other vig than the one that originality has claimed since there is no counterclaim:
If Orig is Mafia:
: A SK must exist to account for second NK. Would it be reasonable here to assume the SK would target orig in the night? If so lynching him is a possible waste opening up the SK to kill a likely townie instead. Lynching someone else would give us information to work from tommorow. If SK kills orig and he is scum we are left with 4:1:1 in wcs (75%), 5:2:0 if we lynch the SK(13%), 5:0:1 if we lynch the other scum (13%). If SK kills town and we don't lynch orig we are left with 3:2:1 in wcs (pretty much over, 75%), or 4:1:1 if we lynch scum (13%) and again 5:2:0 if we lynch the SK (13%). This set-up is very dependent on SK actions.6:2:1Totals for 6:2:1 63% town advantage, 38% likely town loss (3:2:1)
: If the SK kills orig at night we are left with 3:2:1 in worst case scenario(63%), 4:1:1 if we lynch scum (25%), and 4:3:0 (LYLO) if we hit the SK (13%). If the SK kills town and we don't go for orig we're at 2:3:1 in wcs (63%), 3:2:1 if we hit scum (25%) and again 4:3:0 if we hit the SK (13%).5:3:1Totals for 5:3:1 13% town advantage, 13% LYLO, 44% likely town loss (3:2:1), 32% auto-loss (2:3:1)
So I'm estimating our odds break down to the following if orig is scum and we let him live today (calculated weighting SK actions 50/50 and 2 vs 3 scum 50/50):
Town advantage (not LYLO): 38%
LYLO: 10%
Town pretty much lost (3:2:1): 36%
Town Auto loss (2:3:1): 16%
If Orig is the Vig:
There's no SK so the math on this is a bit easier. If orig is the vig and we don't lynch him today we will have 4:3 tommorow if we mislynch (63%) or 5:2 tommorow if we hit scum (38%). This is assuming he doesn't shoot. If he mis-shoots after a mislynch it's game over (6:3HINT HINT if you are the vig), if he mis-shoots after a mafia lynch it's 4:2 tommorow. Of course hitting the target after lynching scum would be the best but odds are quite low.
So in sum this leaves us at (assuming no shots):
Town advantage: 38%
LYLO: 63% <-- best case scenario for ANY mislynch today really
If Orig is the SK:
If orig is the SK I think it is very safe to assume that he will be NK'd by the mafia tonight. I will make my following calculations based on this assumption. If we let orig live and the is the SK we have a 75% chance of mislynching town and a 25% chance of lynching scum. Orig would also get a NK which would then have ~ same odds dependent on who was lynched. End result is wcs 2 townies and Sk killed 4:2:0 (LYLO 54%), 1 scum 1 townie killed 5:1:0 (42%), 2 scum killed 6:0:0 (4%).6:2:1
Town win: 4%, Town advantage: 42%, LYLO: 54%
Again assuming that orig is the vig and is going to be NK'd by mafia but this time there are more mafia. If we don't lynch orig and he is NK'd we will end up with a 63% chance of a mislynch and a 38% chance of hitting scum. Final numbers for the next day will depend on orig's night actions but will leave us with 3:3:0 if two townies are killed (town loss, 36%), 4:2:0 if 1 scum and 1 townie are killed (LYLO, 54%) and 5:1:0 if we lynch scum and orig hits scum (9%).5:3:1
Town advantage: 9%, LYLO: 54%, town loss: 36%
So weighting the two options for 2 vs 3 scum as equally likely we end up with:
Town win: 2%
Town advantage: 26%
LYLO: 54%
Town Loss: 18%-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Actually that post was more for me to get some numbers available to mull over.
mulls
I'm not certain on this yet. I'm thinking letting orig live and having the crossfire sort it out is our best bet, but it's also a gamble, and I don't want to force the town to take a gamble that I am OK with.
One thing I do want to posit to everyone is please don't throw your votes around. We may be in a 5:3:1 situation where mafia can endgame with a mislynch. A quicklynch wouldn't be a poor place in this scenario.
continues mulling[/i]-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Allright one other thing. I'm a wee bit unhappy that most of the decisions seem to be getting made by us four common posters. I don't know why AlyG hasn't chimed in since originality's claim and I wish originality would add a bit more given his "insight" since his claim. Also Dr. BS is off the map even though he's posted in the discussion forum for advice on adding content. Elias is away till Sunday. And Lucienne seems to get about one meaty post a day so I hope that will come in soon.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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I'm pretty much on the same page as vollkan. And I'm advocating a slow down to the voting once again. I'd say putting someone at L-2 without consent is suspicious given the game conditions. Would really like to hear more participation.
I really don't want you to be guided in any way. The more the mafia know what's going on the more they can prepare for it. It's not out of the question that they have a roleblocker either. Just do what you think is best.AlyG wrote:So you guys want me to track dybeck during the night?
I Personally don't have a problem with Lucienne right now. Best of luck with your family matters.
To all I'm LA over the weekends, please don't do anything crazy guys.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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No time for long post just want to add:
I realized that if Orig is the vig, the mafia would benefit greatly from his lynch as they don't have to waste their NK on him and can thus take out our claimed tracker during the night instead.
Also on the matter of vig killing, I'd prefer a no kill if you are the vig.
If we hit scum we'll be at 5:2 tommorow. A mis-kill puts us at 4:2 (LyLo)
If we hit town we'll be at 4:3 tommorow (LyLo). A mis-kill puts us at 3:3 (loss).
I'd also be more inclined to believe you're not a SK if you take a night off.
Finally, we still only have 2-3 people contributing to the discussion. I thought we were going to be keeping the voting down to prevent a possibly quicklynch.FoS vollkanfor the votes.
No time for my other points.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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dybeck wrote:If shaft.ed is not the serial killer I will eat my hat.
You seem very certain of your predictions. Did you end up being co-mod?dybeck wrote: I'm 100% certain that originality is scum
That said I'm not totally comfortable with a dybeck lynch at this point. While I agree heartily with vollkan, I'm a little bit worried of scum buddying up to me. I am also a bit uneasy with Oman's tendency to change his mind so easily as of late. So for reasons I've mentioned earlier I'd really like dybeck to not be at L-2 right now. At least let's hear from Dr. BS and Elias.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Why are AlyG and orig the only people who matter if a guilty investigation turns up.Oman wrote:
No we don't stop fishing. We need to know IF his night action has any bearing on today (i.e. if he's doc, it really doesn't. If he's cop with a guilty on you or orig...it really does)AlyG wrote: and we need to know what he did during the night!
And yes that is rolefishing AlyGFoS
On the Dr. BS side of things I think he's AWOL. Five days without a post anywhere on site. Any chance for a re-prod?-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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OK I'm starting to get a wee bit uncomfortable with two people effectively running the show here.
While I agree totally with vollkan's logic, I'm a bit uneasy that someone seeming so careful would have no qualms with leaving dybeck at L-2 when we haven't really heard from almostone thirdof the town thisentireday. You do realize with the set up there's ~65% chance that at least one of the three people we haven't heard from is scum (Elias, Dr. BS, Lucienne [granted she's away for family reasons]). I do think dybeck's actions are a bit scummy, but we've got one player lurking through the entire day (and most of day 1 for that matter) and another that hasn't posted on site for six days contributing no content today. But you're that sure about dybeck that you don't really want to look at them? Also if they are scum, do you realize how easy it will be for them to stroll into the game and say "you guys are right, I agree with a dybeck lynch." This is getting a little out of hand for my tastes.
And Oman has recently been setting a little uneasy with me. His last post, suggesting an AlyG lynch instead of orig, is just logically flawed. There are only two unlikely scenarios whereby AlyG is scum 1) AlyG is a scum aligned tracker, 2) AlyG and orig set up some crazy scheme to trick the town by outing originality as someone that indescriminantly NK's. While I'm a little bit worried about #1, #2 is just ludicrous in my mind after the scum got through D1/N1 with three town dead. On the other hand, if you were to lynch someone between orig and AlyG the reasons for picking originality are greater in number and in plausibility. And it's also worth noting that if orig were scum, the scum would want him alive with AlyG dead so that they can lynch the confirmed tracker and NK whoever they please.FoS Oman
I'm not voting Oman because I've saved my vote for Elias. Elias pretty much lurked through D1 with a few posts of significance (including joining the originality page 1 bandwagon). And in D2 he has contributed zero, while still be active on site. I'm voting for him until he adds to the discussion.
vote Elias the Theif-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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dybeck,
While I see what you are talking about in that AlyG's claim makes it painfully clear the originality killed a townie last night, I think you are doing a very poor job of reading into the implications of originality's actions following AlyG's claim. Originality had a lot of options open to him after AlyG's post and he decided on one that puts him in the worst possible situation where he is very likely to die tonight. Please take the time to look over my points.
1) originality could have shot back at AlyG. AlyG's claim post was scummy as hell. This has been analyzed by three players (me vollkan and Oman). All of whom commented before originality. If scum, he could have simply lied and said "no way I didn't kill anybody last night" and pushed for an AlyG lynch. While this would have resulted in his very immenent death when AlyG's role was revealed he would have at least taken down a powerrole with him. Instead originality does the opposite. He owns up to the kill and states that he firmly believes AlyG to be town. Note this goes against orig being mafia, but clearly leaves open the SK.
2) Originality didn't have to claim vig. Vigilante was probably the worst scum claim in that situation outside of Doc or Tracker #2. Sure it explains the death and so he might live past AlyG, but it a) makes him a prime target for NK regardless of alignment and b) leads to a ton more suspicion than if he had just claimed Roleblocker.
For point a) assuming he is not the vig, this means that there has to be an SK in the game. If originality is false claiming either the mafia or the SK know it, and are incredibly likely to NK him this evening or at least sometime in the near future. A SK would never do this as he has only one life to live, this would draw way too much attention to himself from the mafia and the town. The mafia are unlikely to claim vig as the SK will undoubtedly NK orig for this claim either tonight or the next at the latest.
Point b) is listed because I have seen it mentioned that the vig is the most convenient claim. I have to disagree. To me, a roleblocker would have been safe. It would explain the tracking and it would clear orig of carrotcake's death if believed. It's also less likely than a vig so not as likely to have a counterclaim. A watcher also would have sufficed in that it's unlikely to be countered. At the very least a cop claim would out the cop, note that this point does not support orig as the SK. But a vig is a rather common role, and it has not yet been countered.
Finally, we're in a precarious situation here. A mislynch puts us a LyLo in the best case scenario. I think there is enough reason to keep originality alive for the day at least. If there are two NK's tonight he's the obvious lynch tommorow (if he's still alive). Keeping him alive also has the added benefit of likely crossfire during the night, which may aid in keeping alive our claimed tracker. I think between the benefits of having him as a night distraction and the possibility that his claim is real are enough to not lynch him today.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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Oh and I forgot one more point when writing up the above, Distancing.
If scum where in fact nailed so obviously as AlyG seems to have, it would be a pretty likely reaction for scum partners to distance themselves from the accused. The only people at a distance from originality right now appear to be AlyG and dybeck. I know this is WIFOMy but still a point to be put out there.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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OK originality please calm down with the talk of vig killing tonight. I posted many pages back about the dangers of having a second kill tonight and they are all quite obviously bad for the town. In fact I'm quite surprised you would bring this back up againFoS originality.
And orig, if you are pro-town, I believe you are playing quite naively right now. You do realize that you are listing a large number of players (4) as almost definitely town. By pure mathematics the odds of at least one of us four being mafia is 80%. I know this is a game about reading people, but the scum will be trying very hard to look pro-town. You also have to remember, if you are pro-town, the mafia know this too. Think of the townie credibility they will gain when they have all along been defending the vig that was backed into a corner. Don't be overly paranoid, but remember just because someone is on your side in an argument, doesn't make them on your side in the game. In short I'm just trying to say, in another wayshaft.ed wrote: Also on the matter of vig killing, I'd prefer a no kill if you are the vig.
If we hit scum we'll be at 5:2 tommorow. A mis-kill puts us at 4:2 (LyLo)
If we hit town we'll be at 4:3 tommorow (LyLo). A mis-kill puts us at 3:3 (loss).
I'd also be more inclined to believe you're not a SK if you take a night off..please don't kill anyone tonight
@Elias, Thanks for responding. Even if you aren't adding content it's nice to know you're alive.unvotefor now
@Gemelli, Thanks a lot for taking over for the good Dr. While I'm sure you won't match his unique play style, I'm also sure we'll all be better off for it.
@Oman, Your most recent example of vote hopping did not go unnoticed.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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dybeck, I know there's a lot to read when revisiting the thread after the back and forths that seem to go on in the night. But could you please address the post I made earlier.
shaft.ed wrote:dybeck,
While I see what you are talking about in that AlyG's claim makes it painfully clear the originality killed a townie last night, I think you are doing a very poor job of reading into the implications of originality's actions following AlyG's claim. Originality had a lot of options open to him after AlyG's post and he decided on one that puts him in the worst possible situation where he is very likely to die tonight. Please take the time to look over my points.
1) originality could have shot back at AlyG. AlyG's claim post was scummy as hell. This has been analyzed by three players (me vollkan and Oman). All of whom commented before originality. If scum, he could have simply lied and said "no way I didn't kill anybody last night" and pushed for an AlyG lynch. While this would have resulted in his very immenent death when AlyG's role was revealed he would have at least taken down a powerrole with him. Instead originality does the opposite. He owns up to the kill and states that he firmly believes AlyG to be town. Note this goes against orig being mafia, but clearly leaves open the SK.
2) Originality didn't have to claim vig. Vigilante was probably the worst scum claim in that situation outside of Doc or Tracker #2. Sure it explains the death and so he might live past AlyG, but it a) makes him a prime target for NK regardless of alignment and b) leads to a ton more suspicion than if he had just claimed Roleblocker.
For point a) assuming he is not the vig, this means that there has to be an SK in the game. If originality is false claiming either the mafia or the SK know it, and are incredibly likely to NK him this evening or at least sometime in the near future. A SK would never do this as he has only one life to live, this would draw way too much attention to himself from the mafia and the town. The mafia are unlikely to claim vig as the SK will undoubtedly NK orig for this claim either tonight or the next at the latest.
Point b) is listed because I have seen it mentioned that the vig is the most convenient claim. I have to disagree. To me, a roleblocker would have been safe. It would explain the tracking and it would clear orig of carrotcake's death if believed. It's also less likely than a vig so not as likely to have a counterclaim. A watcher also would have sufficed in that it's unlikely to be countered. At the very least a cop claim would out the cop, note that this point does not support orig as the SK. But a vig is a rather common role, and it has not yet been countered.
Finally, we're in a precarious situation here. A mislynch puts us a LyLo in the best case scenario. I think there is enough reason to keep originality alive for the day at least. If there are two NK's tonight he's the obvious lynch tommorow (if he's still alive). Keeping him alive also has the added benefit of likely crossfire during the night, which may aid in keeping alive our claimed tracker. I think between the benefits of having him as a night distraction and the possibility that his claim is real are enough to not lynch him today.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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