Mini 486: GAME OVER!

[JordanA24]

Right, sorry that I haven't posted for ages, I had a complete analysis a couple of days ago, but I lost it, I've been working on a new one yesterday, which should be completed by the end of the day.

[JordanA24]

Sorry for the delay in getting this up

First of all,

Unvote

I have got no problem quick lynching a person who acts this ODD in the random stage and doesnt want to explain it...

Woah! What a horrible statement, do you really want to end the day that quickly with such little evidence. Very righteous

FOS: Nelly

I'm here! I'm alive! Nobody vote me off for being inactive!

That was very jumpy, it was Page 2, no-one was voting for him, yet he pleads not to be voted off.

Sucks that random stage is over so quickly.

Surely any townie would rather catch scum than random vote.

As we are possibly out of the random stage (ALREADY!)

Same as above, only more serious I'd say, since Page 3 should be considered past the random vote stage anyway.

Hang on, you say Oj is your top suspect for quite a fair reason, yet you're voting somebody who hasn't posted yet.

FOS: Elias & Oj/Paradox

But that doesn't automatically make him scum. Some of the comments made about him here suggest that he's anti-town no matter what side he's on, though, which leads me to think we're better off lynching him sooner than later.

Whet the hell? So you suggest we quicklynch Oj on Page 4, and you can't come up with your own reasoning that we should, so you try and use other people's comments about him. Very opportunistic and a horrible idea.

FOS: TheHermit

Oman, can i just ask how Nelly comes high on your list? I've just read back and as far as i can see he/she has only posted twice, hard to tell from that.

Ah just noticed that line. Indeed it is very strange to make a comment like that. Though maybe a bit too reckless for a mafia?

Surely if you've read Nelly's posts you'd have noticed something as scummy as that. And when you do "notice" it, you defend him with WIFOM. This is poor.

FOS: SPAG and Nelly

I'm starting to think we're best off killing ojpower immediately so his lurking, random-voting self can't kill us later when we're at LyLo. At this point I don't even care whether he's scum or not, I want him gone.

Vote: ojpower

Oh dear, this post is horrible, you stick to your already bad idea of quicklynching Oj, and you say you don't care whether he's scum either. You are quite the scummiest person I've seen for a while. Even with your reasoning in Post 101, he could still be replaced.

Yes, I realize it's a scummy thing to do. No, this won't change my opinion. I don't want some lurker coming in at the eleventh hour to drop a stupid, senseless vote that the scum all jump on for the win, or even worse, stay hidden so that it's impossible for the active towns to get a lynch on the active scum for want of a single vote.

My vote comes off when he contributes something meaningful or he gets replaced. Not a moment before. Unless somebody does something very scummy.

Now you've realised what a horrible post you've made, and you're backtracking.

Actually, Nelly's comment is only a shade different from The Hermit going after oj...

So, Nelly deserves a vote, and TheHermit deserves a semi-FOS for pretty much the same thing.

Pulse hasn't added much lately... you got anything to add?

2 posts later, Pulse posted, deliberate lurking?

FOS: Pulse

Actually I dont think that is a bad Ideal Gorckat....

Vote:Nelly

I really hope this is a joke, if it's not, WTF are you doing? Even if it is a joke, this is a seriously poor contrabution considering how much has happened since you have posted last.

That is about all you arte going to get from me on Day One so vote me or leave me alone sir...

Same point as last time. And someone mentioned Jester, while it would seem plausible for such poor play, there are only Mafia, Masons, Townies and a Vig in this game according to the mod.

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Nelly claims

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Nelly claimed for absolutely no reason whatsoever, which carries on nicely from his earlier dire play. I cannot figure out whether this is scummy or stupid. I don't know, call it WIFOM, but would scum draw this much attention to themselves. Scum often give up and vote themselves, but I've never seen them blow up this spectacularly under no pressure, I'm leaning towards stupidness than scummyness. The bandwagon also built up really fast on him, which is a tell that the scum are pushing this wagon.

Well I've never lynched a mafia on day one. =(

Vote:Nelly632

Unfortunately(unless he's mafia), he's forced our hand. It's 100% necessary to lynch someone who doesn't play.

that puts him at -3 I believe

This seems rather too sure that Nelly is scum to me, I agree that Nelly's play is very scummy, but outright stating that he's scum doesn't seem right to me, it could easily be a null tell on it's own (It's a common newbie mistake, I fell foul of it once as well), but it was also combined with saying that Nelly was at -3, when his vote put him at -1, which was pretty scummy and could very easily have ended up with Nelly being accidently lynched. It could have been a miscount, but being 2 off seems a bit much. I hardly see why the lynch is 100% necessary either, in fact, it fits with the accidental quicklynch theory. He says it's 100% necessary Nelly is lynched, someone sees that, and is further convinced that Nelly should be lynched, so puts a vote on him thinking he's putting him at -2, but is actually lynching Nelly. I think this deserves a

FOS: Paradox

Anti-town play can only hurt the town, whether the person is mafia or not.

O RLY? If Mafia don't start looking anti-town, how are the town supposed to catch them?

Back on the -3/-1 issue:

Yes. I didn't realize he was near a lynch so I made casual and incomplete count. My fault entirely. But take notice that I said, "I believe." It's important to account for human error.

How could you have not realised that he was near a lynch when votes for him were flying in left, right & centre? And the way you try and dismiss it with crap reasoning doesn't help it either, you made a "casual and incomplete count", if you're taking the trouble to count the votes in the first place, I really doubt it'd be casual. And how does saying "I believe" rather than "He is" make any difference?

Unfortunately(unless he's mafia), he's forced our hand. It's 100% necessary to lynch someone who doesn't play.

that puts him at -3 I believe

this is by far the scummiest sentences thus far in this game...

100% necessary? Forced our hand? -3?

If he doesnt want to post then he is replaced...someone is hungry for a lynch..why is that?...

If anyone here is hungry for a lynch, it's you, for me, because you seem pretty damn worried about your little friend Nelly and quick to deflect suspicion to me.

And if someone is trying to deflect suspicion, it's you. I can't see how CKD is more lynch-happy than you are. You say it's 100% necessary to lynch Nelly, CKD (rightly says) that your post was very suspect, and you say that CKD is hungrier for a lynch than you are. That's ridiculous.

Therefore the only logical choice is to lynch him now.

Oh yes, you are so not lynch-happy right now.

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Vollkan claims

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Would you prefer that I vig pulse?

Para
Pulse
Elias

I didn't want you to misinterpret a "yes" as "more than Paradox"

I would, right now, prefer you didn't vig anyone just yet. I would want most if not all players to re-read and post a scumlist.

OK, a dead scum has posted this, which is strong evidence that Paradox and probably Pulse are town, it might have been distancing, but we're talking about vigging someone here, so it's not easy to believe, especially on Pulse, since there was no pressure on him anyway.

Also, if Nelly came up as scum, and I had used my vote on hermit, it would have appeared that I was trying to distract from the wagon, and thus protect a scumbuddy. There are two pretty solid (IMO) reasons that I voted for Nelly as opposed to hermit.

And what if TheHermit is scum and Nelly is town?

Pulsewidth, spag, thehermit, and sir tornado have not really posted enough to warrant a judgement right now either way.

I find this comment to be horribly neutral, I think it could be said for Sir T, but the other three have posted at least 9 times, and I certainly have opinions on all three.

What makes you think the scum will kill volkan?

not that I am a fan of answering a question with a question, but what makes you think that vollkan will not be NKed by the mafia?

I really don't like how you simply evaded the question there CKD.

The stupid scum is dead…and the other one has my vote on him.

Wow, this page has really opened my eyes towards you CKD, why are you so certain Elias is scum? A common scumtell if you ask me. Though, as I said before, it's not a foolproof tell, but still, you're looking a lot scummier than you were before.

I said he his town in my book until DAY 2...but if I had money, I would put it on vollkan being NK tonight.

Oooooor the mafia could simply pick somebody else to kill tonight and laugh as we lynch the townie dayvig tomorrow. If they're really crafty, they'd worm some way into making his survival looks suspicious so that the dayvig would be forced to lash out at one of his attackers, possibly killing another townie. Hey! Sorta like what you're doing!

FOS: curiouskarmadog

He's confirmed as the dayvig. He's not confirmed scum or town. Even the night won't change that... well, unless he turns up dead in the morning.

I really don't think the post you quoted, or any other posts by CKD say that he is willing to lynch Vollkan if he doesn't turn up dead the next morning. I also think the death scene quite clearly indicates that Vollkan is a one-shot Vig. Your attack on him is pure BS.

1) Hermit was contributing. I would rather see a scummy player who wasn't contributing to town (nelly) lynched then a scummy player who was contributing (hermit).

So, you would rather lynch a lurkerscum than a vocal scum? Even though the vocal scum is spreading his scummy ideas amongst the town, while the lurkerscum is doing no harm to the town apart from being scum.

In my opinion I had already cleared CKD in my mind as being scum so I was not looking for a reaction from him

Why?

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Elias claims

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Are you kidding me? Each one of those massive posts takes about 15-30 minutes to write. I've barely had any time to look for scum.

Pardon? I understand that your massive posts take time to write, but that doesn't give you an excuse not to scumhunt, you don't spend all of your time on here writing defenses surely?

I just don't like the whole 'avoiding scum tells despite suspicions is a good thing'. Townies should play fearlessly.

The extreme loss of temper also doesn't ingratiate me. What you basically said is, 'Reason doesn't work, so let me name call.'

vote: Elias_the_thief

Getting pissed off, like Elias just did, I don't think automatically means scumminess IMO. I've seen townies lose it like Elias did loads of times. Using that as a reason to vote for him doesn't work for me. Though I agree with you about the first quoted point, a townies job is to catch scum, a scum's job is to look as pro-town as possible, not the other way round.

And now you vote for me. What are your reasons? You are simply jumping on because you can. First, you have not responded to any of my arguments, and let Vollkan do that work for you. Second, Vollkan hasnt even responded to my most recent proof that I didnt make a contradiction. Thus my first and most prominent reason for making my vote stands. I have no idea why I'm being voted by practically everyone. I want an explanation from Gorkcat and the hermit as to why theyre voting me.

Gorckat gave about 3 seperate and independant reasons for voting you, though, TheHermit didn't, he simply said:

I don't like the way Elias is trying to misrepresent me. It's good that the town's not buying it (as I clarified my position seconds after voting oj), but I get the feeling he thinks if he repeats an argument often enough people will believe it. I find the points against him logically sound given the information we have.

Vote: Elias_the_thief

Elias wasn't misrepresenting you, you said "Ojpower should be voted off now", Elias pointed it out, and said you were scummy for saying it, that doesn't look like misrepresentation to me, and you backtracked later. Then you said you were voting him because Vollkan's points against him were logically sound, basically, not giving any of your own reasons at all (or at least not giving any truthful ones)

Post 133 is me being a prick to see some reactions,

in my mind the people who get really upset are less scummy then the people who take it in stride

… Karma Dog once again questions me instead of voting for me, this is a great sign in my eyes… He has more then enough reasons to vote for me now he could simply say…

“I ask and I ask you simple questions but you refuse to answer so now you leave me no choice but to vote for you Nelly”

But instead he stay patient and gives me some chances to get myself out of hot water, very pro-town move…

In other words, you said calm people are more scummy, but ckd (who reacted calmly) is not.

You later said:

In my opinion I had already cleared CKD in my mind as being scum so I was not looking for a reaction from him... Being a jerk was a attempt to get a read from people not CKD because I once again felt I had a good enough read on him... I will give you a example of what I was loking for...

A calm person:
"It looks like someone is taking this game a little bit to serious, tossing insults is not going to take the heat off of you"

A not calm person:
"It is funny how someone can contribute nothing to this game, come out here vote for themselves and then call the rest of us foolish. You need to stop being a noob and get replaced instead of being a jerk."

I can't believe I didn't notice this at first, this is very scummy of Nelly.

FOS: Nelly

Okay, there's a lot here for me to digest. MAN, you guys post novels. After sleeping on it I'm not as confident about my vote; I'll need to read through the latest developments in the thread. If my opinion remains the same I'll put the vote back on, but I don't want the day ending before I've finished catching up.

Unvote

Ah, another backtrack. Elias (rightly) asks "Why are you voting me?", and rather than admit you were just following Vollkan, you unvote, using the "I need to reread" excuse.

3. As I said before, I only had the time to skim the relevant posts, and I got the impression that Elias was dodgy, shifty, and suspicious.

Elias seemed to respond to everything thrown at him, so I fail to see how he was dodgy and shifty.

Quality, not quantity. I thought your points were reasonable, but apparently your entire strategy revolves around throwing ancillary points around in the hopes of... what? That they'll crack under the pressure? That someone else will do something stupid so you can go throw everything including the kitchen sink at THEM? Had I noticed earlier that this is what you were doing, I wouldn't have voted for him. Is that what you wanted to hear? That your style of investigation is counter-productive?

Pressuring is a perfectly valid method of scumhunting. And besides, how does his strategy affect the validity of his points against you, you even admitted that his points were decent, so basically, you realise that his points are good and hard to argue against, so you try and dodge them by saying his strategy is poor.

When you yourself admit that your points are garbage, what else am I supposed to say? I thought they were compelling at the time, but they lose a lot of weight when you yourself say, "By the way, I don't believe in that".

This is an outright lie, he in no way said his points were poor.

I thought that's what you said.

I briefly skimmed the contents of your diatribes

There we are Hermit, there's your contradiction.

Curious Karma Dog

His failure to Hammer me when I was one lynch away has really left me to believe that he is townie. While Yes, hammering me would have put a lot of heat on him in Day Two, I personally believe that if he was Scum it would have been worth the risk to ensure a Townie is lynched on Day One, giving the scum a slight advantage going into Day Two.

Please explain to me how an Earth a 1-1 exchange between scum and town at all favours the scum.

Hermit
“Were best off killing ojpower IMMEDIATELY” now it is the immediately part that concerns me the most. I cant help but feel like he is rushing the game and making it seem like we urgently need to do this.

In this game of Mafia, TheHermit has learned that not only can he never make jokes but that every little word he says will get zoomed in on like it's the entire point of his post. I meant "immediately" as opposed to "later, when lynching a townie puts us in a really bad position".

Well what do you expect? Not really defending yourself are you? You're just trying to use your newbieness as an excuse, which is not going to work.

I was going to write another fuming defense, pointing out how what Elias pointed out aren't really backtracks and how Nelly is once again misrepresenting me, but I decided to take a walk instead. It gave me a view to the other side of this whole situation. So, lemme try this again.

I'm a new player to mafia, and I haven't been subject to the suspicion I've been the target of in this game before. From my point of view, there are explanations for all the things that have been pointed out. But you don't believe me, and I can't prove them. Honestly, I know I look bad; I'd probably be right along with you if this were someone else. The only way to prove I'm telling the truth is to die and get my card flipped. It sucks that my death will probably not help the town catch any scum, but I've no one to blame for that but myself. I only hope lynching me doesn't lead to the town losing.

I dislike repeating myself, and I admit I got more than a little heated over the last few days. I apologize for losing my temper. I hope that if we are in any future games together we will be able to start with a clean slate.

Well, time to stop beating around the bush and get this over with. Go town!

Vote:TheHermit

And here you do the classic newbscum thing and vote for yourself saying "Go Town", hoping that we will take pity and Unvote. Again, it's not going to happen.

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TheHermit claims

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Uh oh! Look out everyone, TheHermit is backtracking again! Everybody bandwagon!

Unvote

Note for future play: This sort of negative behaviour does not help your cause.

TheHermit's recent behaviour has swung it for me.

Vote:TheHermit

, -1 by my count.

[JordanA24]

Same as above, only more serious I'd say, since Page 3 should be considered past the random vote stage anyway.

Hang on, you say Oj is your top suspect for quite a fair reason, yet you're voting somebody who hasn't posted yet.

FOS: Elias & Oj/Paradox

It's called pressure.

If someone hasn't posted in the first two pages, it's likely that player has either not noticed the game's started, or has just forgotten about it. Saying that, I suppose I can accept that explaination, especially since you did get your request for a prod denied.

Also, if Nelly came up as scum, and I had used my vote on hermit, it would have appeared that I was trying to distract from the wagon, and thus protect a scumbuddy. There are two pretty solid (IMO) reasons that I voted for Nelly as opposed to hermit.

And what if TheHermit is scum and Nelly is town?

It's called a hypothetical.

And my point isn't?

1) Hermit was contributing. I would rather see a scummy player who wasn't contributing to town (nelly) lynched then a scummy player who was contributing (hermit).

So, you would rather lynch a lurkerscum than a vocal scum? Even though the vocal scum is spreading his scummy ideas amongst the town, while the lurkerscum is doing no harm to the town apart from being scum.

Yes. Scum that talk still give you hints (inadvertantly) as to who their partners might be.

I suppose that's a fair point, but I still think that an active scum is much more valuable to the scum than a lurkerscum, and now, since we only have 2 scum, if one is active and one is a lurker, the active one can't give as much away about who is scumbuddy is than if they were both active.

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Elias claims

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Are you kidding me? Each one of those massive posts takes about 15-30 minutes to write. I've barely had any time to look for scum.

Pardon? I understand that your massive posts take time to write, but that doesn't give you an excuse not to scumhunt, you don't spend all of your time on here writing defenses surely?

During that time period? It's about all I had time for, considering I actually do have a life outside of mafiascum.

But if you signed up for the game and got a town role, I'd expect you to try and find scum as well as defend yourself. I know that everyone has a life outside Mafiascum, but finding scum is the town's primary job, and not making yourself look scummy is the secondary townie job, you don't have to respond to every post made against you immediatly.

And now you vote for me. What are your reasons? You are simply jumping on because you can. First, you have not responded to any of my arguments, and let Vollkan do that work for you. Second, Vollkan hasnt even responded to my most recent proof that I didnt make a contradiction. Thus my first and most prominent reason for making my vote stands. I have no idea why I'm being voted by practically everyone. I want an explanation from Gorkcat and the hermit as to why theyre voting me.

Gorckat gave about 3 seperate and independant reasons for voting you, though, TheHermit didn't

...

Gorckat once again used one reason as if it were the only reason,despite my requests and claims that I used all three reasons posted in my decision. He also did not have three reasons, he stated his one reason thrice.

In addition, it would look bad to vote for him with the mounting Nelly wagon anyhow, so I voted Nelly.

1)

You continue to say not looking bad is a reason not to vote someone you are suspicious of.

After voting Nelly, you go round a little with xombie, then address Nelly's suspicions where you first said (as I've quoted before):

and if you turned up scum and I had in the heat of your wagon voted for him instead, it would have appeared that I was simply distracting from your wagon purposefully.

2)

I just don't like the whole 'avoiding scum tells despite suspicions is a good thing'. Townies should play fearlessly.

3)

The extreme loss of temper also doesn't ingratiate me. What you basically said is, 'Reason doesn't work, so let me name call.'

Three seperate reasons, 1 & 2 seem similar, but they are not totally the same.

No one hammer til Hermit gets to say something!

Seconded

[JordanA24]

Well I've never lynched a mafia on day one. =(

Vote:Nelly632

Unfortunately(unless he's mafia), he's forced our hand. It's 100% necessary to lynch someone who doesn't play.

that puts him at -3 I believe

This seems rather too sure that Nelly is scum to me, I agree that Nelly's play is very scummy, but outright stating that he's scum doesn't seem right to me, it could easily be a null tell on it's own (It's a common newbie mistake, I fell foul of it once as well)

I didn't say he was scum, in fact I later said it was probably more likely he was town. I guess it's not too important but I might as well set the record straight.

You seemed to instigate he was scum, and you said it was 100% neccessary to lynch him, so I'm hoping you thought he was scum, and wasn't just voting him because he was refusing to play, because a town could just as easily do this, and you would just be helping the scum to an easy quickmis-lynch.

Yes. I didn't realize he was near a lynch so I made casual and incomplete count. My fault entirely. But take notice that I said, "I believe." It's important to account for human error.

How could you have not realised that he was near a lynch when votes for him were flying in left, right & centre? And the way you try and dismiss it with crap reasoning doesn't help it either, you made a "casual and incomplete count", if you're taking the trouble to count the votes in the first place, I really doubt it'd be casual. And how does saying "I believe" rather than "He is" make any difference?

Well Vollkan later pointed out that it's 6 to lynch instead of 7 and someone voted 1 minute before I posted and that might've been the cause. And saying "I believe" instead of "He is" may not change the scumminess of my mistake, but there's still a pretty big ****ing difference in the meaning between them.

I accept your explaination for the incorrect vote count. But when I'm typing up a post, "I believe" is just another way of saying "He is" to me, regardless of the fact that they have a slightly different meaning if you're going to be pedantic about it. But since the vote count now seems like a genuine mistake, it's a bit of a moot point now.[/quote]

Whoa what?

That means a day with no discussion, which is very anti town.

that's too bad, if we're gonna have to lynch some random guy inevitably, why not make it sooner so you can get on with hunting?

This was biggest slip up so far. “so

you

can get on with hunting”? ummm, aren’t

we

suppose to be hunting scum? Why are you not hunting scum? Not only do you state you want the day to end sooner, your justification to Elias is so “you can get on with hunting:”

HUGE SCUM SLIP UP HERE!

This is a pretty bad slip, but I still think the town-tell that Oman said he'd prefer a Paradox vig over anyone else outweighs the scumtell you've pointed out there.

But you ignore my primary argument that if players are always allowed to live simply because they do nothing is pretty stupid. I still pose the question: What keeps scum from acting that way and getting a free ride? I f you want to argue circumstances, then whatever, but just letting people get away with it is inevitably game breaking once scum see the potential.

Simple, actually.

Let's imagine two hypothetical lurky non-contributors named A and B.
A = Vanilla townie who is lurking and non-contributing due to inexperience and/or boredom and/or juvenile humour attempt.
B = Scum who is lurking and acting as a non-contrubutor as a conscious tactic of avoiding a lynch.

I would be prepared to bet that Person A tires of the stupidity (or learns how to play in the case of a newbie) A LOT faster than person B. Anybody who fits A's profile (any of the possibilities) is clearly not going to have the committment this game requires and, thus, will eventually tire of the stupidity and become a plain lurker and then get replaced out.

Anybody who maintains such a persona for an extended time is, in all likelihood, scum.

Thus, as a scum strategy, it would have no point. It might let a scum live one day or so, but in the end it will come crashing down upon them.

Hence, I unequivocally disagree with Para that it is good to lynch such people early on. If they are a lurking scum, they will eventually and rightly come under suspicion for maintaining it for a long time.

Don't give me an argument about such a person posing a risk in LYLO, because in all likelihood I think that a genuine stupid player would, in this game, have given up already. If, even by this stage, someone had maintained such an attitude you might be well advised to suspect them, but at the point of time when Para did so, it is utterly anti-town.

Good post, I agree 100% with this.

[JordanA24]

This is a pretty bad slip, but I still think the town-tell that Oman said he'd prefer a Paradox vig over anyone else outweighs the scumtell you've pointed out there.

why is that? If I was Oman and I was trying to find a quick fix to get some town cred I would have fingered someone I knew was scum. Lets say Vollkan vigged Para (on Oman's insistance) instead and he turned out scum..wouldnt that have bought some Oman some cred?

Oman might have thought that we would think that he might have simply sacrificed one of his own to gain town cred. I'd imagine he would have gained some town cred, but not nearly enough to make him consider decreasing his chances of winning by that much.

[JordanA24]

This is a pretty bad slip, but I still think the town-tell that Oman said he'd prefer a Paradox vig over anyone else outweighs the scumtell you've pointed out there.

why is that? If I was Oman and I was trying to find a quick fix to get some town cred I would have fingered someone I knew was scum. Lets say Vollkan vigged Para (on Oman's insistance) instead and he turned out scum..wouldnt that have bought some Oman some cred?

Oman might have thought that we would think that he might have simply sacrificed one of his own to gain town cred. I'd imagine he would have gained some town cred, but not nearly enough to make him consider decreasing his chances of winning by that much.

So we dont really know why Oman picked who he did...that (in my mind) does not out weigh Para's scummy play.

I'm still 95% certain he'd pick a townie first.

[JordanA24]

OK, lets assume for a minute Paradox is scum and Pulse is town:

Oman posts a list of vigging choices, putting Paradox at the top and Pulse second, hoping that Paradox is vigged and that gives him some town cred. But then he is asked whether he would prefer that Pulse is vigged and Paradox is lynched. If he was looking to sacrifice one of his own to gain town cred, why would he say he approved that Paradox was lynched rather than vigged? If Paradox is lynched, the town might later end up saying "I bet Oman said he approved Paradox was lynched rather than vigged because he wanted to see whether it was neccessary to get rid of one of his own, since a vigging is instant, and a lynch isn't." So if Oman wanted to gain as much town cred as possible, he'd have stuck with vigging Paradox rather than Pulse, rather than risk Paradox not being lynched and not gaining any town cred, and even if Paradox would have been lynched, he wouldn't have gained as much town cred than if Paradox was vigged.

I hope that made sense.

[JordanA24]

I'm willing to trust CKD didn't PM any game related info to SPAG.

[JordanA24]

Well, I have objections which I've already stated, all I say is I urge all of you voting for Paradox to reconsider and really think about this. I still find Hermit to be a much better lynch.

[JordanA24]

Rereading SPAG's posts, I really don't like what he's done, he seemed to push Paradox's wagon subtly, and when he was sure that Para was going to be lynched, place the hammer on him. I've underlined the important parts of the posts below.

Ok, although i haven't been able to read through the whole thread,

a selection of you seem pretty sure on Para, and from what i have read on him (I looked through his posts) he is looking like the prime suspect at the moment.

Well, I'm going to go with it.

vote : para

I just hope we are right.

I think he is scummy, yes, but i am yet to read the thread properly.

Since we have a fortnight (almost) until the deadline, I have plenty of time to have a read through and cast a thoughtful vote rather than a quick one on the first person i suspect.

Then we have the hammer.

Oh yeah, i forgot to say good job on Oman I trust you will be protected.

Well, i think i'm going to go for it and place my vote on him.

Vote: Paradoxombie

I just hope we are right.

Why does he say "I hope we are right" twice? The bit that particularly catches my eye is the "we" bit, I think he's trying a bit too hard to seem part of the town.

Also, in the post a day before the hammer, he says

Since we have a fortnight (almost) until the deadline, I have plenty of time to have a read through and cast a thoughtful vote rather than a quick one on the first person i suspect.

The next day, he hammers, saying "I hope we're right" Terribly scummy if you ask me.

I think this combined with Setael's case makes me confident enough to

Vote: SPAG

.

[JordanA24]

Okay, so first, TheHermit. Honestly, I don't see anything scummy or townie from him.

Yagami + Hermit scumteam?

I'd like reasons from Yagami as to why Hermit is neutral (preferably a PbP).

[JordanA24]

Vote: YagamiLight

. That puts him at -1. He needs lynching.

QFT

[JordanA24]

Bah! Go town!

[JordanA24]

Btw mod, the OP should say I was killed Night 2, not Night 3.

I'll be quiet now.

Ah yeah...that's true. -Mod