Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[Nelly632]

Hello everyone, I must say that having to go through 10 pages of post equaling 229 posts was actually kind of grueling. I wont say that I read every single post word for word (Plessiez can write his butt off) but what I did was use a notebook to keep track of vote counts and used Microsoft word to write down notes so that when I started to write this I would have something to go on. If your name does not come up it is probably because you didn’t stick out in my mind, hell after page five it was like a blur to me lol…

Vampaneze Hunter
First thing that stood out in my mind with him was his first vote for Hjallti, he claimed that this was simply a random vote but for me I found it hard that he could just pull a random name out of the list and it turned out to be a person who voted for him. So this struck me as a lie and kind of scummy, he also started to push some heat on Kheluaster which struck me as odd. Another thing that really has no basis in my mind besides my gut feeling was his post #150, in this post I believe he simply came back to the game after a while away and simply made a small comment in his statement which was agreeing with Plessiez about finding more info on Omens other Mafia members before he was lynched incase he did turn out to be Mafia. While this is a sounds ideal I got a weird feeling about how he agreed but nothing major.

I would like to pose a few questions toward Vampaneze Hunter and please once again correct me If I am wrong with any of these comments because I went through the thread in about a hour and a half…

1)Do you still stand by your comment that your first vote was completely random or would you like to say that it was based on him voting for you?

2) If I am not mistaken you pushed slightly for Kheluster in the early stages of the game. If this is correct and now you have a FOS on him why haven’t you cast your vote for him to apply some pressure?

3) Since you agree that we should find out some more info about Mafia before we quick lynch and assuming that Omen is Mafia, who would you suspect as other Mafia members?


Vampyrysddg

Honestly the one player in this game who strikes me as townie, the reasoning behind that being that he has flip flopped on his votes so many times that this would be a clear way to draw attention to yourself which is something Mafia does not like to do. His first vote for Muerrto was casted after Plessiez cast his first vote for Muerrto, his second vote for Vampaneze hunter was a bandwagon vote. His votes there after were for Hjallti, Malchonn & Death Omen. I noticed that he never cast a vote for someone who hadn’t already had a vote on them. My thoughts on that were simply, this is either a brilliant strategy by a Mafia member or a indecisive strategy by a townie, my opinion lying towards the latter obviously.

1)Each time you changed your vote were you truly convinced at that moment that the person you were changing your vote for was scum or was it simply a way to apply pressure?

2) If a person became -1 would you be willing to hammer that person and end day one?

3) In other Mafia games do you flip flop as much or is it just this game in particular?

Death Omen

The lamb that Kheluster is attempting to lead to slaughter, I can honestly clump my name in with the people who are NOT convinced in your guilt at this point. You were the first person in the game to cast a second vote on someone while we were still doing the random votes which is not a crime but suspicious. Vampyrusddg unvoted and voted for Vampaneze Hunter then you quickly changed your vote giving me the impression that you could be scum and Hunter is your partner in crime and you didn’t want to see a quick lynch, it would be interesting to see if Hunter cast a vote for you down the line. Then the biggest thing you did that drew suspicion was trying to turn people onto Muerrto for simply being vocal, that had to be the scummiest thing you did in this game but I can say that in a sense Kheluster is trying to get you lynched but if it wasn’t for his non-stop gunning for you I would cast my vote your way but at this point I simply cast a FOS toward you…

1) It seems only reasonable for you to assume that if Kheluster is gunning for you and you are townie then he is infact Mafia. With that being said why have you yet to cast your vote his way?

2)What are your thoughts on VampHunter?

3) It has been said that you claim to have a special role in this game is this true? If so don’t you believe that hinting toward a special role would put a target on your back when night falls?

Kheluster

My favorite thus far, you are the person that strikes me as SCUM and here are a few reasons why. Your first vote in the game was cast toward Muerrto and at such a early stage in the game you had no real problem placing him 3 votes up and 4 votes shy of a lynching and then laid claim that it was random. Then you make a ludicrous claim that you are confirming your vote for Muerrto and while you may not have meant it like this I took it as if you were going to stand by this vote as if you had some prior knowledge that he was scum and as we know prior knowledge is impossible unless you are SCUM and then you would know who all the townies are. Then WITHIN TWO POST from you, you go from CONFIRMING your vote on Muerrto to starting a bandwagon on Death Omen who you had not mentioned until placing a vote on him. Then you don’t give him a chance to reply you simply attempt to get people to bandwagon him by using the excuse of PRESSURE. You say that you are totally convinced that he is scum then you say on post 151 that “IF HE IS TOWN”. You cant have it both ways Sir, you have to understand that in a sense all we can see is Death Omen defending himself from a quick lynch that truthfully was unwarranted at the beginning and became warranted after you called him out. Kind of like watching your dog sleep quietly and peacefully and then waking her up and placing your favorite pair of shoes in front of her with a piece of meat in them and when she goes to chew on your shoe you hit her.

You MADE him get defensive then you laid into him and took everything he said and used it in your own favor.

1) If we all went with you and voted for Death Omen and he turned out to be Townie, would you volunteer yourself for our vote?

2) You performed a total 180 from Muerrto to Death Omen very quickly, while I might have missed it do you still have suspicion toward Muerrto? If so can you please lay out a claim for him to be lynched?

3) Death Omen is lynched today, what are you going to do now?


Now like I said I went through 10 pages today and in my notes these were the only people that stood out in my eyes. Interesting enough in my notes I put that Muerrto & Plessiez do not strike me as SCUM but I have nothing to back that up so I didn’t list their names. Another note was “Plessiez POST 107 WOW! Great way to kick start the game”. As you can see these notes were useless toward placing these people’s names on the list above. I am more then willing to answer any questions in regard to this game so you all can get a better feel of how I play. I am not casting my vote as of yet because I want to see how things progress now that I am active but I will say that if I had to cast right now it would be Kheluster…

[Nelly632]

I understand that Vampy is probably a good player and by my comments I did not mean to imply that he is a bad player. Obviously you have played with him much so I will take your word for it, I will concede that once rereading the comments it would appear that all but the Demon vote was done in good fun during the random stage.

As far as the comparison to between Kheluaster & DO well here area a few thoughts in my head and I actually might have said them already…

D.O
--- By unvoting Vamphunter when I believe he had three votes on him could have been a situation where he was placing the vote on Hunter who is possibly a second Mafia member to throw off people down the line. Then when he saw it was 3 votes he quickly changed his vote just incase a bandwagon formed. But two things are wrong with this, ONE being that D.O & Hunter would have to be scum meaning I picked out two scum at the beginning which is highly unlikely. Two, we were still inn the random vote stage so I might be over thinking Omens first vote.

--- The attempted bandwagon of Muerrto that he tried sticks out in my mind as scummy, to me it appears like a man trying to keep the attention away from himself. Problem was he encountered a lot of resistance from people who realized that Muerrto was simply talking and that was not enough reason to lynch him or start a bandwagon toward him.

--- But on that same note I have been in D.O place with people attacking me and dissecting every word I say and sometimes it is hard to articulate what you have in your head. They say the best defense is a strong offense and I think that D.O would benefit himself with a stronger offense to get everyone off his back. Right now he is simply being defensive toward everything that is happening. Hell if you need to take the time and reread the thread and come up with a valid opinion that might sway people otherwise. (I apologize if you have already done this D.O)

Now he is coming off less scummy and more desperate…

Kheluaster

---- I have to reiterate that the scummiest thing he has done thus far is his ruthless bandwagon of D.O. Simply voting for him was not good enough in his eyes he was insistent on us reaching a LYNCH quickly as if he didn’t want us to have time to over think the situation. Then when people came out and gave valid reasons as to why we should not be so quick to judge he pounced on it and made comments that did not make sense. When working on wood you measure twice and cut ONCE, we are making a choice that could send us into the night missing one townie and he just doesn’t see that. Even though he knows in his head that that could possibly happen he has us convinced that he is so convinced in his head that D.O is scum that it makes me wonder if that is really what he is thinking. Hell he COULD be thinking that he is so good at this game that he can have us lynch one of our own go into night kill one of us off get identified by the cop and have us lynch the cop the next day then put us in a real whole… Damn that actually isn’t a bad ideal now that I think about it, he could be pushing for us to end day one because he knows the cop will investigate him at night and when the next day comes and the first vote comes his way he will assume that is a COP and push for him to get lynched… BUT MIND YOU THIS IS IF HE IS SCUM and truthfully I am about 90 percent convinced that he is scum but NEVER 100 percent until the death has occurred and the role is revealed… I would never be so bold as to state that I am 100 percent sure unless I am a cop and even then I would be afraid of being the insane cop…

Honestly I am waiting for a few answers from the questions I asked and especially from Kheluaster, then once that is all done I will feel confident in casting my vote…Muerrto you say that you want D.O to give you a reason to unvote him and I say I want Kheluaster to give me a good reason not to cast my vote his way…

[Nelly632]

Khelvaster Wrote

If by WITHIN TWO POST, you mean four posts later

Post 45 was your conformation vote…
1st post after this was post number 47
2nd post is number 63
3rd post number 99
Then we have the infamous post number 100 So it was within 3 post but it still doesn’t make it any better…

D_O attacked Muerrto for defending himself well. There is no reason that is anything but scummy. Given the recent stuff with Muerrto, it is even possible scumdistancing.

So what you are saying is that by D.O simply attacking Muerrto the person who you voted for you are so convinced that he is Mafia that you jump all over him. Seems odd to me…

If he is town is called a contingency. If he had claimed cop, suddenly our loss for lynching him if he happens to be a really shitty player (like Battle Mage tends to be) would be much higher. Since he wasn't claiming, the mean expected return for the town was, in my mind, somwhere higher that 0 (This is an exact way of saying how scummy I felt D_O was.) Generally, a random d1 lynch would have a slightly negative return.

I am sorry can you explain that to me in lamest terms because I have no clue what you are talking about.

Lemme use your dog analagy. If I put my shoes by my dog, give him meat, and then hit him, he is likely to be somewhat defensive, or maybe attack me. He won't jump at the throat of three people who are sitting quietly in the corner (lurkers.) If he does, there is something wrong with him (scum.) Anyway, I've already made a huge number of cases against Death Omen.

You sounds like Michael Vick to me…

This is a hugely scummy question. There is no right answer to it--any answer I make would implicate me as scum or would let you WIFOM me into scum. The problem is, whether the person being asked this question is scum, SK, town, or anything but jester, they will say no. I will not volunteer myself as a lynch if D_O comes up innocent. However, I will say, if I were one of you, I would lynch myself d2 if he were innocent. This would lead to a town loss. Thus, I would not be doing what I am doing right now unless his actions were as scummy as they are now.

Once again I am sorry but you have to clarify this comment for me because it sounds like double talking. But what I am saying is are you so sure that he is SCUM that you would put your DAY TWO life on it?

You mean, If D_O is lynched today, I take it? My answer is, I will most likely vote for Muerrto, seeing as he keeps trying to give D_O advice. D_O coming up scum

would mean Muerrto is almost guaranteed to be scum.

In your eyes SIR and that is the problem you are pointing fingers at people who do not see your point of view and that is why I asccuse you of believing you are better at this then the rest of us because you are already convinced of the guilty parties while the rest of us keep a open mind.

You are sounding entirely too sympathetic towards Death_Omen. I can understand if maybe you aren't totally convinced he is scum. Not having any suspicion, however, just strikes me as strange.

Yes I am extremely sympathetic to a person who is being bandwagoned by someone else for no real reason except being defensive… But then again we now see who is really defensive…

This was based on a notion which I thought was true, but which I was then assured was false (that we could beat the mod's replacements, and thus see if they were scum or not.) Please look at my defenses before you go on the offensive.

I was simply answering a question and I really find it hard to believe that you based your quick lynch comments all on the night phase coming and us avoiding the replacements. Maybe you were more fearful of a replacement like myself coming in a seeing you for what you really are…

And one which would have, at very worse, traded one townie for the confirmation of two. However, after I was told it didn't work, I switched gears. Again, attack my explanations of my actions if you are groping for a handle--don't attack things I have already explained. It is annoying for me to repeat myself.

Once again let me

repeat

myself, your defense is terrible and unbelievable…

Then finally I see what I wanted to see all along, the man who was so quick to hound Death Omen got extremely defensive and said this…

I will vote for whoever reaches hammering distance first: Omen, Muerrto, or Nellie.

Basically saying to us that “I see you all are not coming around to the thought of voting off Death Omen so please consider these 3 people and vote for one of them and I will hammer them with no questions asked”…

LOL… You can point your finger at me all you want sir but through this entire game you applied pressure and finally when the pressure was on you… YOU CRACKED with only a single vote cast for you….

[Nelly632]

Hjallti wrote

You didn't answer his remark but went around it. If you are sure he is scum, you can't consider the possibility he is not, so you are not sure, and shouldn't have claimed to be sure in the first place. Saying you are sure is leaving out the rest as worst case scenario.

Thank you...

SeraphicMirth Wrote

(however, one thing that makes me hesitate is his inclusion of Nelly on his scum list now.. I don't know what I think about that).

Actually I was suspecting that the majority of the times when you toss out suspision toward somebody they will toss it back toward you which can be interpeted as...

1) A Townie who actually thinks you are scum because you are pushing for him so hard. (This works both ways for K & DO.

2) Scum trying to lash back at you for hitting to close to home...

But honestly this comment did not bother me it was his comment about being willing to Hammer either Muerrto, D.O or myself if the time come... I would have trusted him more if he would have stuck to his guns on the D.O regardless if I agree with them.

Flea Wrote

Loaded question. Kthxbye.

While it might appear to be a loaded question I did revise the question "But what I am saying is are you so sure that he is SCUM that you would put your DAY TWO life on it?"... If this is still loaded in peoples eyes then I will drop the issue...

Vamphunter Wrote

Answers

1)Ok, ok I admit that it was partly to do with OMGUS but it was mostly to do with random vote+ a random reason!

2)Yea I did apply pressure but when I looked at this game I thought that Khelv was a townie using his best technique he knows of in this game but I think he has got it wrong.

3)Well here is my LoS:
A)Nelly-Think he is trying to throw suspicion around!
B)Vampddg- I think he is scum who is sitting back a watching the game
C)SM- Gut feeling.

Good answers and thank you Hunter... And by all mean you can cast LOS on me I am more then willing to be cast in the light... JUST BE CAREFULL I MIGHT JUST CRACK!!!! (Screams)

Vampy Wrote

I'm always willing to do the dirty work if nescecary, although I would never speed hammer someone, no matter how sure I am of them being scum. Always give them a last chance to dop a team mate in it by trying to distance themselves fom he rest of the goons before they go.

Good answer... By the way I got the impression that it was scummy in your eyes for me to go on a big rant about Khelv and not vote for him.. If that was the case I can actually say that I was kind of fearful that voting for him right off the back without letting him say some things that might change my mind would be considered scummy. Either way I am casting my vote in this post...

Vote: Khelvaster

[Nelly632]

Plessiez: Vampaneze, DeathSauce and somestrangeflea--none of these people look scummy at all to me.

Too me this translates as...
you guys have yet to vote for me so I want you too know that I am not against you so you wont place your vote on me...

You have named 3 names as the people you believe to be scum...

Nelly632
Muerrto
Death Omen

The comment above names 4 people who have not voted for you and because of that you clear them of being scum... What about Vampy & Hjallti? You are not attacking them or clearing them, is this because they have already cast their vote for you and you see no point on bringing them up?

[Nelly632]

Nellie: I have already seen what your defense of this stuff is, and I don't need another defense restating the same things. I want the other peoples' opinion of this.

I dont need to defend it anymore you have stated in the previous post the reasons as to why you have singled out DO & Muerrto and then you decide to post a seperate post pointing the finger at me for simply sending you out loaded questions. You asking for everyones else opinion reads to me like "Come on guys I know you are on titl about Muerrto & D.O but lets attack Nelly anything to keep the heat off of me"... But hold on keep reading before you get all hot and bothered LOL

HOWEVER, I believe DeathSauce is more of a careless townie than a scum. As I said, all of these things are "soft" scumtells

You love to claim that Muerrto is feeding D.O defenses because they are scum buddies but right here you are defending every move Death Sauce and claiming that in you "OPINION" they are soft scum tells and that we shouldnt read much into them... To me this is more proof of Scum Buddies then your weak comments about Muerrto feeding him lines... But on that same note I personally dont believe meant it that way so I didnt take it that way.

I have read all of your post Khelv and the truth is that ever since I voted for you I have gotten nothing but TOWNIE vibes that totally contradicts all the pushing for a quick lynch evidence I have...I put pressure on you and you reacted by pointing the finger on me and making a few really stupid moves which is like a townie trying to defend themselves. So the real question is, In this game of facts and proof is a gut feelings enough to unvote someone that you WERE dead set on being scum?

Death Omen Wrote

Just keep jumping on the wagon Khel, you did it before and your doing it again. With the simply reason of stupidity lol.

People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones SIR...


A gut feeling is not enough to vote someone... But a GUT feeling is enough in my mind to Unvote someone...

Unvote: Khelvaster

Vote: Death Omen

Am I sure this is the right move? NO! Why am I making this move? Because instead of taking the shift toward Khelvaster in the voting polls as a oppurtunity to come out and post some theories about your stance in the game. You did nothing but toss your vote with the bandwagon and give no real explination besides the obvious fact that he gunned for you...

[Nelly632]

Good move Death Omen...

My only question is why would you Role Claim when you have only 4 votes on yourself? You make it seem like we all have worn you down and the truth is that nothing 24 has really changed in the last 24 hours besides me changing my vote your way.

I honestl dont know how to read this role claim...

1) If you are in fact the cop then lynching you would put us deep in hot water..

2) If you are not then you can be trying to draw the real cop out of the water...

example: Khelvster says "Now I know you are scum because I am the cop"

Then you get lynched anyways but now the other Mafia member knows who the cop is and then he ends up dead...

It is interesting to see how everyone else reacts to this and you all play thi game how you want to but my suggestion is IF YOU ARE THE COP and D.O is not DONT SAY ANYTHING...

But good play D.O I am sure you will have people who are on the fence with you rethinking their vote... I know that I wasnt sure and now you put more doubt into my mind...

[Nelly632]

I believe that Malchonn is corect and that Khelvaster is at L-1. I suggest that no one hammer until we can discuss this cop claim further.

I think we have discused it long enough, he has made a RC and no one including myself is willing to take a chance on day one. KL is the only person who has came close to lynching and is scummy in everyones eyes (Including mine with the exception of my gut feeling).

Hammering on my part would seem odd if I hadn't cast my vote for Khelv already and just recently changed it... I can honestly say that this gut feeling is still with me but like everyone has said "Lynching a claimed cop role is a bad move on day one" so be relatively new to this game I will go with the census and agree that D.O has saved his butt with a claim to be the cop...

Unvote: Death Omen

Vote: Kehlvaster

After 20 days and 14 pages of post I can say that I am ready to end day one and move on (Even though I wasn’t here since day one)...

[Nelly632]

Looks like we made a mistake Ladies and Gentlemen... I think today is going to be a very long day...

[Nelly632]

Well lets see...

As of right now I believe this is how the votes fell...

Death Sauce placed 3 votes...
Weyounslastclone ... Muerrto ... Death Omen

Clone is no longer in the game and Deathsauce's last two votes were for the two people that Khelvaster claimed to be Mafia...

Death Sauce received two votes, Plessiez & SomeStrangeFlea interesting enough out of the two of them Flea is the only one who changed his vote and jumped on the bandwagon for Khelvaster...

Then ofcourse there is the rest of the us who was on the bandwagon that lunched Khelvaster. Hjallti, Vampy, D.O, Muerrto, Flea, Malchonn, Nelly632...

As of right now I have a FOS on Muerrto... And a HOS on Flea & D.O more so on D.O until he gives us some reason to believe his COP statement yesterday...

I will give furthur detail on my FOS & HOS later right now I have to do some real life stuff lol...

[Nelly632]

I don't see how it was wrong, a RANDOM vote still counts as a vote and I simply stated that you cast a vote for Death Sauce and as far as being the only one of the two to cast a vote fo Khevlaster, well I believe that to be true also so ONCE AGAIN what am I wrong about besides not mentioning that your vote was random...

Hey Guys Flea cast a vote for Sauce but it was RANDOM!

[Nelly632]

Flea Wrote

If it was random, then how can you use it to prove/disprove/mean anything? You're trying to imply some sort of connection between my vote for DeathSauce and my switch to Khelvaster.

Now, considering that you can't use my vote on DeathSauce to mean anything whatsoever, what you have as a case is "Flea voted Khelvaster", which isn't actually a case I'm afraid, namely because it's only got one thing in it. What you have is a single file.

The comment wasn't meant to prove or disprove anything it was simply a recap of the votes thus far.... You getting so defensive of it is what strikes me as odd... While yes I did cast a FOS on you it wasnt based on these facts it was based simply on a gut feeling which is why it is a FOS and not a VOTE...

Unvote

D_O, if you don't have any results tomorrow, you're a dead man.

Vote: Khelvaster

I'm not liking his exchange with Muerrto...

The real question is, now that D.O has spoken up a has simply said that he was roleblocked do you still stand by this comment?

I think alot of heat should be placed on D.O right now because his role claim is what caused us to lynch Khelvaster...

[Nelly632]

Flea Wrote

Not true. It was a Hand of Suspicion, which specifically singled out myself and D_O as being very scummy from your perspective, which is now just a gut feeling?

You don't cast HoSes on gut feelings. You rarely cast FoSes on gut feelings.

First off how can you tell me what is true and not true when it is my own thoughts... If I say it was based on a gut feeling then it is based on a gut feeling regardless of what you might think. Secondly I can cast HOS & FOS on whoever I want for whatever reason I want to because they mean nothing they are simply for the reason to see how a person reacts to them and you my friend reacted like a person who is hiding something... Now would you like to continue this debate furthur or would you like to be a productive townie like you claim and find some scum?

Malchonn Wrote

Well he was my prime suspect, the only other real one claimed cop so I couldn't muster up a vote for him because of it. Also I didn't want to be the hammer it was either be the 6th on my highest target or not vote at all, in hindsight I should've not voted at all, because in most games I play we give the doomed one a chance to save himself/RC or whatnot before getting hauled off to the woodshed. I will definitely be more cautious of some of your itchy trigger fingers

*cough* Nelly *cough*

If he would have RC'd Vig I totally would have taken my vote down.

LOL... Very Funny...

I dunno why no one has mentioned that maybe Malchonn's character role doesn't allow him to be investigated, like perhaps a godfather.

Vote: Malchonn

D.O role claimed to be cop then came out today and said he was bocked which I found interesting because I believe him...

I am very confused about Muerrto I dont know what to think about him...

With regards to Flea I have to say that his defensive nature stirkes me as scummy but then again he could just be a townie trying to keep his name off the chopping block...

I am casting a vote for Malchonn...

[Nelly632]

In my opinion the most likely scenario:

The mafia have a roleblocker and decided to RB DO because all eyes were on him, while offing someone else they thought was a lurking power role.

Nelly regardless of wether Khel had mixed up his roles or not you hammered him without giving him a chance to RC, follow this by your immediate jumping on Malchonn because "He may be the godfather", if all that had gone on here was that then DO would have got an innocent on him, not a failure to investigate. That would make the godfather stick out just as badly under investigation as any other scum, add to that some initial deduction based on pure WIFOM:
Nelly632 wrote:
Death Sauce placed 3 votes...
Weyounslastclone ... Muerrto ... Death Omen

he had no more idea who the scum were than anybody else, how would his votes help us pin anyone down? The scum decided who died, but would they off someone who had pointed fingers at them, or used that to make other players look worse?

vote: Nelly632

Well you are entitled to your opinion Sir... But I can assure you that you are wasting it on me... I am Townie...

[Nelly632]

Why vote for Malchonn is a question that is circulating right now and I am willing to answer it with no problem… As you saw earlier I gave no reason to vote Malchonn because there is no reason to vote Malchonn…

Unvote:Malchonn

One way for me to stir the pot was to place a vote on someone with no real chance of getting voted off, give no reason for the vote and then sit back and wait and see who bandwagons me… I had a lot of thoughts about who is scum and who is not but it is hard to tell the right from the wrong in day one. But my thoughts process was that SCUM would be more then willing to stick their neck out in a bandwagon on day two because if they draw attention to themselves while lynching a townie they still walk into day 3 with an advantage over the town…

I will give you a Role Claim right now so incase someone wants to hammer me they can do so with no hesitation (if the time comes ofcourse)…

PLAIN VANILLA TOWNIE… Nothing special going on in my part of town…

By placing my vote for Malchonn I am sure that some of the votes for me are from Townies who see this as ODD but I am positive that regardless of my fate we can assume that the TWO scumbags are part of the group that is voting me… So lets see…

Out of the 4 votes on me thus far I am only truly suspicious of one...

Hjallti - This is the person who i believe placed the first vote on Khelvaster and stuck with it without flip flopping... This to me is unscum like, he could have easily bent and went for D.O who was close to a lynch but stuck his guns...

Flea - Tossing out the HOS on him and making up a lame excuse like GUT feeling was my way of getting a read on him... Very Defensive... Thus far the people who have gotten defensive (Khelvaster & D.O) are townie (I will explain the D.O thing in a minute) so instead of sitting back and not drawing alot of attention to himself he stood up and defended himself which gave me a good read on him and I dont think he is scum ONCE AGAIN I DONT THINK!

Vampy - I personally feel that this person has been quite, yeah he has probally spoken alot but by quite I mean he hasnt rocked the boat in my eyes and stuck his name out there... This is odd but nothing major in my eyes as of yet...

Muerrto - Once Khelvaster came up Townie I said to myself that I would cast my vote for either D.O or Muerrto based on his passion toward both of them... (To be continued after D.O)

D.O - Thought he was SCUM! Then he goes out and roleclaims to be a cop, then today he says that he got a fail on his read of Malchonn... All of this makes me believe the man is TOWNIE... Because we have shown that we had a vigilante & I dont believe we would have one of those and not a cop so the odds are we have a cop... So for him to role claim and no one has indicated this to be wrong (Meaning if I was a cop I would point the finger at D.O and say I know for a fact he is scum)... So that means the odds are he is right and he is a cop... Which on a side note more then likely means we have a doctor and he protected D.O...

QUESTION:
Is it possible to have a Doctor that when he protects he roleblocks the person?

If that is so then it is possible that D.O was roleblocked because he was protected by the DOC and that is why he got a fail... Just a thoughts..

But anyways with all of this going through my mind I have to say that i belive D.O to be Townie regardless of what I said in the past...

Muerrto: I have to say that this person is very good at his job if he is infact scum... He talked so much that he made me believe that he was townie but as of right now I honestly think that his talking was a ploy to make him seem like town... I think everyone believes scum sits back and waits so he took a opposite approach and spoke so much that anyone who is watching would say that he cant be scum...

Vote: Muerrto

In conclusion... I think everyone wants to know why I hammered Khelvaster without giving him a chance to ROLECLAIM...

The reason for this was simple... We had D.O close to a lynch and alot of people were convinced that he was scum.. But then he comes out and with one post and a roleclaim he turns the tide because no one wanted to vote for a claimed cop role... So then we all turn to Khelvaster and get him close to a lynch and then someone says "Wait and let him roleclaim"...

Now what i was thinking was, he comes out and claims to be the Vigilante (He double checks his PM and sees the mistake) so now he makes this claim and everyone says "Oh well I dont want to lynch a claimed Vigilante role on day one" so then we go back to square one and lets say we all jumped on Vampy and then he got close to a lynch and then he claimed to be the Doc and we all stoep back and say "I dont want to lynch a claimed doc role on the first day"...

You see what I am saying, we had no real way of knowing if someone is telling the truth so I took it upon myself to hammer him...

On that same note if I was scum why in the hell would I stick my ass out there and hammer someone! Knowing that this would put my name on the tip of everyones tongue on day two!

Anyways I hope this explains alot... I am not going to sit here and defend attacks from people so unless you have a question for me you will not receive a answer...

[Nelly632]

Confirm Vote Muerrto

[Nelly632]

EBWOP

Any questions in there Muerrto or would you like to just continue to take what I say and attempt to bury me?

[Nelly632]

There were quite a few questions in there. Did you bother to read it?

Here's some questions for you, did you expect WIFOM to prove anything?

Can you explain your hammer vote? Can you explain your explanation for your hammer vote?

Are you playing anymore? Have you given up?

There ya go. Questions.

1) WIFOM, not sure what this means?

2)I believe I explained this already. What about this was confusing to you because I thought it was rather clear.

3) Yes I am playing this game still. No I have not given up but I will not come on here and start to back track and make myself look worse then you claim I have already made myself look. I came out here and did what I needed to do to give myself a ideal who I believed to be Mafia, this turned out to be you and I understand that you are upset and I understand you are defensive, but I think your scum and people don't have to follow me they can vote me off... I have explained myself and I have casted my vote, with the exception of answering questions, there is nothing I can do to change their mind if they have already made it up.

[Nelly632]

WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me

refers to any circular logic especialy in a defense. i.e. in your argument there hammering him and then saying "would I stick my neck out like that it I were scum?" it leads back on itself, you say scum wouldn't take a risk like that but then wouldn't that be perfect cover if you are scum?

Ok I see now thank you...

Here's some questions for you, did you expect WIFOM to prove anything?

Actually I didnt know this had a name for it but actually yeah I hoped it would help me out by bringing that thought to peoples eyes but I wasnt aware it was something that was used so often that it had its own name... But on that same note nothing we say can prove anything, for example nothing you say can prove that you are not scum. But you will continue to attack me in hopes that no one will sit back and start to look your way.

[Nelly632]

Just to be clear Muerrto I dont have to explain myself any furthur to you... I have already explained why I hammered Khelvaster and you have made it clear that you understand what I said but it is not good enough for you... Well vote for me then... Oh wait you have!

I am not going back and asking you to explain every vote you made and everytime you kept a vote on with doubt in your mind so dont ask me and expect a answer...

People are coming on here and calling me a noob (Not a big fan of being called that but being new to this game I cant dispute it) and basically keeping a eye on me but easing up and looking else where but like I said you continue to turn your attention to me and try to bandwagon me... Thats a scum move if I have ever seen one...

Look at me I simply said why I was voting for you and then cast my vote and left it at that...

You come out here and continue to attack me in hopes that I will explode and you can point your finger futhur and then come back afterwards (If you get me lynched) and say that it was my own fault because I am a noob and I talked myself into a grave...

I am done answering your questions Sir... You need to sit back and realize that this is a game and we all cant get bent out of shape over a game!

[Nelly632]

Muerrto:

You know what I am a grown man and like a grown man I can step back and accept if I am wrong... I agree with Serp that maybe my comments toward you are out of frustration and my lack of acknowledgement toward you is more then likely a way to give you less ammo to point in my direction... I cannot claim any role to anyone besides plain old townie and I felt like defending myself to you would lead me into hot water and I did not want to get lynched because I may or may not have made a stupid move at the beginning of day two...

I do agree that my actions at the start of this day may have been percived as scum like and there is nothing I can do to change that now...

I will step back now Muerrto and stop assuming you are simply attacking me... I believe you asked a question in regards to D.O and I would appriciate it if you would simply repeat this question and give me a little time to recap my post so I can once again gather the train of thought I was in when I posted...

Thank you very much

[Nelly632]

Okay, heres my take on the situation, and I'm convinced I'm right.

The Mafia have a

roleblocker

, they knew that if there is a doc in the game he would be protecting DO (no reason for them not to)

so they neuter our cop while offing someone else, and lose the risk of wasting their NK.

What has me so sure about this is

if DO was scum why would he bother with saying he got a fail? It would make much more sense to come out and say he got an innocent on someone he knew was town

, forgoe the NK so it looks like he's got protection before they satrt NKing other people on N2. The scum knew we still had our eyes on him and we could well end up lynching our cop ourselves, and

until then they can continue blocking him night after night

while picking off everyone else.

Bottom line, we need to get that roleblocker

. until then we've effectively lost 3 power roles, I'm hoping there is a doc so if we do catch him we've got some investigations, but if not we're going to have to do this the old fashioned way.

I agree with this 100% but how do you weed out a ROLEBLOCKER I mean it isnt like someone is going to come out and give away a tell that lets us know that he/she is a roleblocker... But honestly good observation...

[Nelly632]

Muerrto:

1) The cop roleclaim to me was good and bad, in doing so Death Omen (In my eyes) has cleared his name and now I believe him to be townie... Why?

--- If he is a scum he would have no clue if there was a cop in this game or not so if he was not a cop and RC then another person came out and said "I know you are scum because I am the cop" then he would have buried himself so in my eyes to big of a risk...

--- By RC and giving us a sufficient answer in day two and with the failure for anyone to step up and claim otherwise I am left believing him...

2) I am almost convinced that there is a DOC out here who saved D.O last night and roleblocked him at the same time...

3)I will admit that now that everyone has voiced their opinion I will go with the consensus and agree that this was a bad move... At the time I didn’t see any harm in it... I was not aware that a roleclaim before someone is lynched is standard practice and no one mentioned that before my hammer... All that was said was that we should discuss the COP RC more before lynching Khelvaster... And I didn’t see a need for more discussion on this...

4) Let me try this one again... I was trying to prevent us from being placed in the same situation we were in when D.O roleclaimed... If Khelvaster roleclaimed and we all took his word for it then when would it have ended... EXAMPLE...

D.O is close to a LYNCH he roleclaims COP and we leave him alone...

Khevlvaster is close to a LYNCH he roleclaims VIGILANTE and we leave him alone...

Next we turn to Muerrto and he gets close to a lynch and he roleclaims DOC and we leave him alone...

Then we turn to Vampy and he roleclaims TOWNIE and as was pointed out before by muerrto this seems to not be a good enough RC so out of frustration we lynch him because we are sick and tired of taking RC...

Then at the end of the game it is revealed that Khelvaster & Muerrto are scum and we kick our selves in the butt for accepting there word for it... But on that same note I didn’t think of the fact that if we allow them to roleclaim and they claim a role that is held by someone else we have essentially caught them or narrowed scum down to two people, MY MISTAKE...

This is what I was thinking and it seems now that this thought process was wrong and I am sorry for Hammering before you all had a chance to discuss it..

[Nelly632]

As strong as my convictions towards you are Muerrto, I must admit that your words continue to remain consistently pro town as they remained from day one... My vote was based on actions that I believe to be false as of right now, nothing you have done since my vote was cast on you has confirmed it more in my eyes but on the contrary loosen it in my eyes... Too sum it up; I would like to remove my vote toward you with a final statement...

"Either you are a sincere townie who has our interest at heart or a GREAT Mafia member who has perfected this game"

Unvote: Muerrto

Um..there's 12 people. 1 dies each day and 1 dies each night. So if we lose another town today and another town tonight we have 8 people and 3 scum. That makes the next day 6 people and 3 scum. That's lose.

So if we mislynch today we're in LYLO. If you were actually legitimately asking that's cool but you seem to keep trying to find things in stuff I say(like the WIFOM thing) that you can use to cast suspicion on me even though what I said made perfect sense.

Two mislynches means day 3 is LYLO and day 4 is lost.

The reason I quoted this above if because I know for a fact that I am TOWNIE and I would hate for the town to lose because of my mistake at the beginning of Day Two... There is nothing that I can do that will convince you 100 percent that I am Townie I just hope that my comments above followed by the unvote helps you lean toward believing me and preventing the quoted situation above from happening...

[Nelly632]

I can't ask for much more then that... Thanks...

[Nelly632]

I believe I am only at 2 votes...

[Nelly632]

I honestly dont really know I mean if I was forced to come up with a list I could but it would be based on loose stuff...

[Nelly632]

Malchonn Wrote:

I have kind of already gone over my reasons on Nelly, obviously the hammer still shines, but even further I was kind of

expecting a response to my post 376. Where I called him a noob and threw out a scenario, I was wondering if I was even close

, but I got no response. In all fairness he did get caught up in a Muerrto debate so I can see how he got distracted.

The confusing part to me, about your reason, is when you mentioned D.O was getting close to being voted, then he role claimed then we changed direction; so when was at -6 Khel you decided not to let him role claim so we wouldn't change targets? So you took it upon yourself to sacrifice Khel so that others couldn't role claim to get out of trouble, whether fake role claims or not? I guess I can kind of see where you’re coming from; I could never justify that because the role claims could always be false. Just sounds more n00bish than WIFOM.

Question for all with votes or thinking about votes on Nelly, Why you think Nelly's actions were more Scummy than N00b?

As I have explained numerous times, I placed my hammer vote on him because I believed that everyone was placing to much trust and emphasis on the Roleclaims and that we would never exit Day 1 if we continued to allow people to RC... Obviously I was torn between Khelvaster & DO voting wise and I was determined in my mind to vote one of the two off in Day one based on my thoughts... Once the majority stated that they refused to vote off a claimed cop role on day 1 I felt there was a good possibilty that DO was lying and got out of hot water simply based on a RC and now I was left with simply placing a vote on Khelvaster who was the other suspect in my mind. Once he got to -1 and I began to see the writting on the wall and knew that a RC from him would place myself and everyone else in a delima and possibly save him on day one with no actual proff to back up his RC... But you have to understand that this was not my main goal, I didnt cast the hammer completely based on preventing him from RC, I had spoken before my vote about how I believed Khelvaster to be scum and placed my vote on him before... It is not like I came out of the blue without ever casting a FOS on Khelvaster and Hammered him...

Sometimes in this game we stick our neck out and if it results in a SCUM lynch you have been cleared in the eyes of your fellow townies but if it results in the lynch of a fellow townie then you are left holding the bag and SCUM if right there trying to bury you...

If there was a wooden beam holding a building together and everyday someone came by with a AX and took a swing at this beam... Then one day a person comes by and takes that final swing that brings the building tumbling down... Then everyone looks at the person who took the final swing and ignores the other people who took the swings that contributed to the building coming down, how does that make sense? A hammer is not what caused Khelvaster to be lynched a MAJORITY VOTE caused him to be lynched and everyone has failed to look at that majority and has layed the blame entirely on the HAMMER VOTE...

[Nelly632]

Muerrto you are always going to come out here and try to bury me so I just take it with stride... I say that if everyone already has there mind made up and refuses to let the Hammer stand for what it is then cast your vote already and lets get this day over with... I will hammer myself if I get to -1...

You all believe that RC is good and I believe it is not... Plain and simple...

[Nelly632]

I believe D.O roleclaim because no one has discredited him...

I believe waiting for someone to ROLECLAIM before voting them is pointless if you feel you have enough info and are confident in your vote...

[Nelly632]

You all believe that RC is good and I believe it is not... Plain and simple...

YOU ALL BELIEVE THAT ROLECLAIMING IS GOOD AND I BELIEVE IT IS NOT...................

My comment never said that YOU ALL BELIEVE HIS RC IS GOOD AND I BELIEVE IT IS NOT....


Oh and no I will not stop ..............................

[Nelly632]

UNVOTE: Vote: Nelly632

[Nelly632]

Screw that, I am done with dealing with certain people who cant see five feet infront of there face... You have people going on vacations and coming on left and right claiming that they have to reread and everything while sitting back not making a sound letting the world pass them by and those other certain people keep applying pressure where pressure is no longer needed...

HERE IS YOU STUPID ROLECLAIM....
Vanilla Townie

MY VOTE STILL STANDS....

****************************************************

6th Vote Count of Day 2

Nelly632 - 3 (vampyrusddg, Muerrto, Nelly632)
VampaneseHunter - 1 (SeraphicMirth)

Not Voting:

- 6 (death_omen, Hjallti, Malchonn, Plessiez, somestrangeflea, VampaneseHunter)

6 to Lynch

[Nelly632]

I am not going to be replaced, I am playing this game and I have placed a vote for myslef... If all of you choose to LYNCH a townie then do it if not get off my case... My vote will stand and I will not request a replacement... Why dont all of you get a clue and start going after the people that keep their mouth shut...

[Nelly632]

No see my vote for myself is not costing YOUR team, see it takes more then one person to lynch & I only get one vote just like last round when I had ONE vote...

[Nelly632]

You all caught me fare and square, I am scum so come on guys and jump on my bandwagon and vote me off... Hell if voting for me because you think I am a terrible Townie gets you off then do that also but the point is I am the right person you should be casting your vote for...

[Nelly632]

If you can tell me why you started to play mafia that'd be cool. Hell, when the game ends I'll link you a game where I took a 16 page beating. You're over-reacting.

Your right I am over reacting and I think we should all ban together and vote me off for being a sore loser...

[Nelly632]

Agreed..

Vote:Nelly632

Your kind of play is bad on the whole, try defending yourself with proper statements and NEVER take the game of mafia seriously.. EVER

I am not taking this game too seriously I have given you all more then enough reasons to vote me and yet we sit here and I am not lynched... Come on guys lets get on ball how do you expect to win this game if you let SCUM like me walk around in your back yard...

[Nelly632]

My view is simple... Lynch me already...

If I am scum then you guys are doing the right thing and will win...

If I am Town then I am a bad townie and you guys had no choice right...

If you hate the way I am playing the game then YOU stop playing Mafia because I can do whatever I want to do in this game...

I am in several other games and I participate alot more then in this one because unlike this game the other games have people who are smart enough to realize other alternatives then pointing the finger at the person who hammered in the previous round...

You all our sheep that see a hammer and go

"um i think he is scum because he hammered so lets ask him why then everytime he gives us a excuse lets tear it down because we like putting pressure"

I tried and tried to explain why the hammer happened and it fell on deaf ears so now I vote myself and give you all what you want and you are still not happy...

****************************************************

7th Vote Count of Day 2

Nelly632 - 5 (vampyrusddg, Muerrto, Nelly632, death_omen, somestrangeflea)

VampaneseHunter - 1 (SeraphicMirth)

Not Voting:

- 4 (Hjallti, Malchonn, Plessiez, VampaneseHunter)

6 to Lynch

[Nelly632]

He added to the list of votes on me so yeah it counts...

[Nelly632]

We don't want you to be lynched. We want you to use words, sentences, logic, and thought to explain to us why you shouldn't be lynched. We do not want to you take an immature hissy fit and blow up all over the thread because you're being suspected.

SHEEP!

[Nelly632]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!

Funny...

VH... Why dont you just Hammer me already and lets get this over with...

[Nelly632]

Because I don't think you're scum.

Well atleast that is ONE smart person in this game...

[Nelly632]

"EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS STUPID, BECAUSE I'M OBVIOUSLY TOWN!!!!111 EVERYONE IS STUPID AND WRONG..........................................................................................................................................................................................."

Now thats the spirit...... 111111111111111111 I knew you would eventually come along1111111111111111

[Nelly632]

My god lets all listen to Muerrto because he goes by JOIN dates... NOOB lol... Come on guys lets vote me off already so you all can be a Lunch or lose...

[Nelly632]

YOU speed hammered. YOU thought RC'ing was bad. YOU made the noob mistake(if it was a mistake) and EVERYONE agrees those were both BAD moves. So who's the noob?

LOL... OK...

UNVOTE

I feel better now... SSF wants me to play then fine I will play... I will give you all a detailed list of suspects and other stuff first thing tomorrow...

[Nelly632]

I don't know what to tell everyone but the truth is that even with a reread of the thread I have gut feelings but nothing really solid on concrete to back it up.

Vampanezehunter is suspect to me simply based on some of his actions which can be interputed in numerous ways. His time away from the game on vacation can be held suspect if it was proveable that he was lying (Which I am not claiming). By claming to be on vacation a person can sit back and allow the game to take place without being help under suspicion for lurking. But what strikes me as odd is his reluctance to hammer me, I understand that he probably didnt want to hammer me then suffer my fate the next day but I think he took it to another level. He had plenty of time and just cause to do the dirty work and no one would have blamed him but his hesitation struck me as scummy. Then his last post is written like someone who is sure I am scum and if he was given the choice to lynch me he would, kind of like someone being confronted by a tough guy and being quite then when the tough guy walks away they run their mouth. Maybe that was a bag analogy a better thought is he didnt want to be the one to hammer and once he saw that I MIGHT be able to get myself out of a bind he came out and said a few things in hopes of swinging the votes my way again and getting the job done...

Once again this is loosely based and has now real evidence also I was thinking for a second that Serp might be a COP who investigated VH during the night and knows he is scum but then I saw he was unvoting VH and if a cop had a guilty read he wouldnt unvote that person. Then I thought that maybe Serp is the COP and he investigated me on Night One because I hammered and he knows I am town and that is why he wont vote for me.

I dont know this is just a few of my thoughts, if the rest of the town doesn't want to be placed in a lynch or lose situation I would recommend that you listen to my words and change your vote.

I made a mistake in everyones eyes by hammering Khelvaster before he had a chance to RC because if he would have RC VIG then we would have let him go just like we did DO.

Well I am sitting here right now telling you all that I am Roleclaiming Townie and I would hope that you all take this Roleclaim and listen to it as too prevent a Lynch Or Lose situation.

Vote: VampanezeHunter

[Nelly632]

Please don't get pissed at me again if I respond to this post first off.

I am not pissed I understand that you have to say something.

A. I don't like even insinuating VH lied about vacation. That's an absolutely horrible reason to suspect someone.

If I insinuated that he was on vacation I apoligize and retract it, I was saying that when a person comes out and says it twice I start to think something is wrong.

B. Overly hesitating, like he did, is less of a scum tell and more of a town tell. Especially if it'll cause LYLO if we're wrong.

Like I said it was my feelings and I couldnt prove anything besides what I had in my gut.

C. That's your third RC for vanilla. Excessive at best.

Yes very excessive but I was hoping that by saying it one more time I could convince you. If you are pro-town like you claim then I would hope that you would take my claim a little bit more seriously.

D. I thought I was your #1 suspect. But now that some attention is being brought towards someone else you shift? Do you no longer suspect me or suspect him more?

I still suspect you as a matter of fact you were on that post right above VH with a long list of stuff I thought about you. Before I posted it I erased it all because I hoped that by not mentioning you in my post you would not feel the need to try to disect everything I say. But that was my mistake.

VH seems to be really new, and kind of off the wall. He also said at some point that he was only 13. These 3 things explain every 'scum tell' IMO. Some people may disagree and like I said I have a history of ignoring scum tells as newbie tells. But I'm definitely not ready to switch off Nelly especially after his quick shift to VH.

I think personally it looks like you are trying to defend VH by claming that he is simply a young person and that is why he appears to be scummy. The problem I see with you is that you refuse to have a open mind in this game like you have admited, you get your heart set on voting someone off and no matter what they say you will not see anything else besides what you want to see. Either that is a problem or it is your scummy side coming out. You have refused to examine the list of people that voted for Khelvaster and continued to hold your vote on me with standing the numerous roleclaims I have stated in my post. Also before you copy and paste my post where I RC scum please be aware that I am well aware what I have wrote in the past and unless you feel the need to show the entire thread once again please refrain.

[Nelly632]

Ok. Everyone is allowed their own opinion. But your reasons for voting me are really bad. A) Faking a Vacation!?! Why would I do that? I have people you could ask and they would say I was on Holiday! Bad reason.
B) Hesistating. I'm not a very deciscive person. I saw what happened to you at the beginning of this day and how you were attacked constantly.
Also I gave you a chance and you throw it back in my face! I'm sorry but you haven't even said thanks! Oh well. Major FoS: Nelly

My reasons for voting you are based on my feelings and no proof like I have said several times already, I have already apolgized about making it seem like I was saying you were faking a vacation I thought I already clarfied that it was a thought that crossed my mind. I am sorry.

I was saying that with all the Suspicion you have toward me now that it would appear that you didnt want to hammer me and now you want to draw more attention to me as if you are regretful that you didnt hammer. Once again my opinion and I am sorry you do not feel the same way.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not generally considered anti-town to draw attention to people you think might be Cop? Or is that Doc? Or both?

By making my thoughts known to people I thought I was giving everyone what they wanted from me in this game. I couldnt very well mention my thought process toward VH without mentioning that I believed Serp to be a cop. But once again it is simply a SMALL belief that has no real backing what so ever.

[Nelly632]

First off, welcome to mafia

. I know I've said that a few times but I apparently have to say it again. That's why there are so many quotes in people's posts. This is mafia. Everyone goes through every post with a fine tooth comb and picks out the inconsistencies. If you don't want me to dissect what you say, you may not be in the right place.

Thank you once again for welcoming me to the game of Mafia.I am well aware that people will disect everything you say and you have done a great job in doing just that during the course of the game. As I stated I chose not to mention you because I didn't want to give you just cause to once again repeat yourself.

Second, I already claimed to be defending VH in a way by placing him under a protective 'newbie' sign. I also already stated that sometimes that bites me in the butt. But sadly, that's not something I can simply choose to change. All his tells can be seen as either one(newbie or scum) and I still see them as newbie, whether that's right or not. I defended VH on day 1 with the same argument. Now whether other people see it that way or not is their business, but this is nothing new. I didn't just all of a sudden jump in front of VH to protect him from the mob. Pless asked me on day 1 if I assume everyone's town till I have reason to believe otherwise and I said yes.

I have no problem with you protecting VH I just thing your reasons for protecting him are wrong and not a good way to play this game. You pick and choose who you want to give passes to based on newbie actions. Some consider my actions to be Newbie but they do not give me a pass like you give VH a pass.

As for examining the list of people who voted Khel?

I'm on that list and I know my role so how does looking at the other votes help?

I have no doubt there's both town and scum on that list as almost everyone suspected Khel. But you're the hammer, the speed hammer, and the reason we never found out he was a vig. That's what I'm examining. How is looking at the other votes more important than that?

How can you furthur examine the Hammer? I have explained it and you have said that it is not good enough of a excuse. I have no other excuse so in a sense the Hammer can no longer be examined. I think your reasoning for not examining the rest of the list is suspicous, you yourself has just said that the list has your name on it so examining it is pointless. Is that because you do not want someone to look at your name? I think your lack of a open mind in regards to the list is scum like.

Step back, pretend it WASN'T you that hammered but it was someone else, at the same speed, for the same reason. You're telling me you wouldn't be a bit suspiscious? You're not suspiscious only because it's you. To the rest of us it was a very big tell. If you can look at it from a 3rd person view I think you'll understand a bit better.

You are not just a little bit suspiscious you are basing your vote all around the hammer. There are several people in this game who all witnessed the hammer and are not basing everything they do around it. I believe you should take a second and step back before you make a mistake here.

By keeping your vote on me I can come to no other conclusion then to assume that you are infact Scum and will not change your vote regardless.

Unvote: Vote: Muerrto

[Nelly632]

Bolding everything you say is getting old. And this vote is straight OMGUS because I'm voting you. You even state that yourself.

Vote stands.

The bolding of my words was not meant as a act of hostility or frustration it was simply a way to distinguish my words in the quote from your words. The last part that was in bold was suppose to be inside the quote with the rest of the responses I gave you.

My vote for you is not based on your vote on me it is based on your continued effort to get me lynched without examining any evidence besides the actual hammering. You yourself have placed a extreme amount of game strategy around the Roleclaim that we failed to receive from Khelvaster. My assumption would be that if Khelvaster were to have roleclaimed then you would have changed your vote because like the DO situation in which you failed to vote for a Claimed role. Now in this situation I have claimed my role in this game and because it is not a role that has any real significance in your eyes you choose to hold your vote on me because of pure stubborness.

My vote for you was simply because you can't honestly be town if you are willing to place the town in a Lynch or Lose situation which you are doing by failing to consider other avenues and lift your vote from me after I have Roleclaimed.

[Nelly632]

While it is apparent that a Vanilla Townie Role Claim would be useless I ask the question what am I suppose to say? The reason for me saying I was Vanilla Townie was to get it out of the way since it is obvious alot of people in this game would like to know a persons role before lynching them. I can't claim a power role because I dont have one but I can tell you that since lynching a townie on this day will lead to a lynch or lose situation you have to consider my roleclaim to be more important on this day then it would be on day one.

I say I am a Townie in the hopes that I can sway everyone in my favor and save a townie lynch on Day Two. I believe by not repeating over and over again that I am townie would be a huge diservice to the town.

I have no viable defense for my Hammer and no excuse for my child like behavior but I see now that the only way to win this game is to hope that the town will believe my Role Claim and look at other avenues for a lynch on this day.

Muerrto is my choice based on the facts I stated previously, I do not expect for the town to do a complete 180 and turn on Muerrto. Hell I will not even ask that because even I am not 100 % convinced he is Scum but if it is him or me who gets lynched today I have to hope that it will be him based on the fact that I know my role and I know for a fact that lynching me would be one less townie at days end. Lynching Muerrto could results in the same situation or it could results in a Scum lynch to end Day Two.

[Nelly632]

By examining the list we can gather much more information then you know Muerrto...

1) By looking at the list and re-examining the reasons for people casting their vote will give us furthur insight into the mind frame everyone was at when they placed Khelvaster at -1.

2) We can ask everyone on the list what their personally feelings were after the vote before Khelvaster was revealed to be Town. Excluding their opinion of the Hammer but focusing more on if they were confident in their vote prior to the death scene.

3) You claim to have me on the top of your suspect list, well by examining the list furthur you can apply more pressure to the people on the list and hopefully find a scum buddy for your top suspect.

Ultimately by disregarding the list and pointing a finger at me and no one else you fail to gather as much information as possible on Day 2. You are over focusing on the hammering which is your reason for voting me and not focusing enough on drawing out information from me seeing how I am your top suspect.

You seem scummy because you seem content on finishing this day with a lynch on my neck without gathering more information that can benifit us all on Day 3. If this is because you are angry at my actions then I truly apoligize but you need to focus more on getting more information and less on condeming a person who you are not 100 % convinced to be Scum.

You say you have no real suspect besides me but you need to ask yourself why is that? Is that because you have examined all other possible scenarios and have concluded that I am the best choice? I think not. Is it because you have pressured several other players and they seem to have reacted better under pressure? I dont believe so. Or is it more likely that the reason you have failed to find other suspects is because no sane scum member would dare rock the boat and draw attention to themselves while you are on a "witchhunt" that appears to be working to end Day 2 with a town lynch. Too sum up what I just said, you have no other suspects because you have not tried to find any other suspects and if you continue to sit back and wait for someone to slip up you will be waiting a very long time.

That is why I believe you to be Scummy, voting for me based on a very overused point and a failure to seek out other scenarios because of fear that you might either be proved wrong or exposed as Scum.

[Nelly632]

But you're the hammer, the speed hammer, and the reason we never found out he was a vig. That's what I'm examining.

Can I ask you a hypothetical questions...

Assuming I allowed Khelvaster to Role Claim before I Hammered him and he stated that he was simply a Townie. Which is exactly what he would have claimed if given a chance, he would not have claimed Vig. Would you be attacking me as much over my Hammer & if yes why?

[Nelly632]

Not at all. If you want me to link a game where I hammered someone immediately after they claimed town I will. It just ended a couple days ago. I got crap for it the next day because they were town and I had to explain in that game as well that town=null claim. The IC's in the game of course understood but the newbies were like, not always. So I was like, then how do you ever lynch when someone claims town? One of the newbies actually said they'd roll a die. I was like ok, you no longer get to speak.

So if Khel claimed town and you hammered would I have ANY suspiscion for you? No. Honestly besides the hammer and your explanation you've exhibited no scum tells. Look at my opinion of you on day 1. But the problem is, if he'd claimed town that would be on him, not you. Him not being able to claim is on you.

And no, I'm not bringing up the hammer again just replying to your post. That's what I meant by not bringing it up. In fact I'm not sure I've posted without it simply being a reply in several days.

Actually I should amend that. Lot of personal crap going on here in real life(called the cops last night, we'll leave it at that) and I have been quiet recently as Seraph(I think it was Seraph) said. I'll try to do a full re-read since it's my day off tomorrow and give a full synopsis of all players.

One of those two are scum, I can assure you of that.. My thoughts were slipping onto Plessiez before he asked to be replaced.

I honestly thought the same thing but there is no real proof as far as I can see...

Thank you for your complete honesty on this subject and it would appear that by speed hammering Khelvaster I ultimately brought this heat upon myself because with him being mistaken about his role if I would have waited I could have avoided this horrible day two experience.

I cannot go back in time I can simply move on with this game in hopes of avoiding my lynch which would be another townie dead to end day 2. Puting your own feelings aside can you please give me a ideal of who your top 3 might be at this time. Obviously I am number one but I am curious to see what the other two names might be.

[Nelly632]

EBWOP

Not at all. If you want me to link a game where I hammered someone immediately after they claimed town I will. It just ended a couple days ago. I got crap for it the next day because they were town and I had to explain in that game as well that town=null claim. The IC's in the game of course understood but the newbies were like, not always. So I was like, then how do you ever lynch when someone claims town? One of the newbies actually said they'd roll a die. I was like ok, you no longer get to speak.

So if Khel claimed town and you hammered would I have ANY suspiscion for you? No. Honestly besides the hammer and your explanation you've exhibited no scum tells. Look at my opinion of you on day 1. But the problem is, if he'd claimed town that would be on him, not you. Him not being able to claim is on you.

And no, I'm not bringing up the hammer again just replying to your post. That's what I meant by not bringing it up. In fact I'm not sure I've posted without it simply being a reply in several days.

Actually I should amend that. Lot of personal crap going on here in real life(called the cops last night, we'll leave it at that) and I have been quiet recently as Seraph(I think it was Seraph) said. I'll try to do a full re-read since it's my day off tomorrow and give a full synopsis of all players.

Thank you for your complete honesty on this subject and it would appear that by speed hammering Khelvaster I ultimately brought this heat upon myself because with him being mistaken about his role if I would have waited I could have avoided this horrible day two experience.

I cannot go back in time I can simply move on with this game in hopes of avoiding my lynch which would be another townie dead to end day 2. Puting your own feelings aside can you please give me a ideal of who your top 3 might be at this time. Obviously I am number one but I am curious to see what the other two names might be.

One of those two are scum, I can assure you of that.. My thoughts were slipping onto Plessiez before he asked to be replaced.

I honestly thought the same thing but there is no real proof as far as I can see...

[Nelly632]

Has anyone noticed that Nelly has really slipped under the radar as suspicion has been cast of him. I dont really get what he did to get everyone of his case. So I'm gonna re-instate:

Unvote
Vote: Nelly632

When I am finished with this games I probably will quit mafia. Anyways I agree there with D_O We hae kinda let Nelly off the hook, so to speak. Also when was his last post?

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: 598

I believe the post above answers all of your questions.

[Nelly632]

Vote: Muerrto

I honestly don't see a reason to change my vote from last time, he defended Hunter and hunter came out Scum.

[Nelly632]

EBWOP:In fact I'm almost of the belief that Nelly could actually be our SK. It would definitely explain the speed hammer and the simply joining any vote wagon that forms.

Day 1 was DO, then Khel. Day 2 he was all about suspecting me then switched to VH when that wagon started.

That's not 100% mind you but we do need to find the frickin SK.

Actually I jumped on VH before the wagon started and if you recall I didnt even havce my vote on him when he was lynched.

Question:

Aimee was the one who was claiming you were scum right?
(I am fairly sure she was but right now I am too lazy to pull up a new window simply for the purpose of confirming this)

[Nelly632]

Yes. Not to use WIFOM to try and prove my innocence but that means if I'm scum then Aimee called out BOTH her partners in one swoop since both her and VH were scum.

That'd be...interesting to say the least.

That is exactly what I was thinking I found it highly unlikely for her to blast both of her Scum partners and since we know VH was scum then I can accept that you are town.

Unvote

[Nelly632]

I am going to go with Muerrto & D.O on this thing here, I personally feel that Muerrto is good in my book now because of Aimee wouldn't have attacked both of her scum buddies and since she clearly attacked one and he proved to be scum I have to logically assume that Muerrto is town. Also since D.O has claimed cop I have to go with him until he is proven otherwise, while my questions regarding him not getting a decent result back from his investigations are starting to weigh on my head I can only trust him currently...

Unvote: Vote: Karen

[Nelly632]

So...
2 Town
1 SK
1 Scum

Muerrto
SST
Vampy
Nelly632

That gives me a 1/3 chance of picking scum, 1/3 chance of picking SK & a 1/3 chance of picking Town.

I know with 100 percent certainty who one of the townies are (me), but who to trust:

Muerrto Wrote:

Ok, first off, no one vote, if that's not obvious. We OBVIOUSLY have 1 scum left(a blocker) and an SK and 2 town.

So let's start speculating. Who's the SK? Who's the scum?

Karen was obviously wrong...and dumb for killing herself.

DO WAS the cop. Although I gotta say I didn't expect Hjalti as the doctor. Wild.

SO, here we go. Aimee called out VH, me, Vampdog, and Hjalti. She was scum,

VH was scum, Hjalti was the doctor, so I'm assuming Vampdog isn't scum just like I did yesterday. I'm scared I'm sheltering Nelly but I don't see him as being the last scum either. That leaves Flea. I have to admit I didn't ever see him as scum but I'll have to re-read now I spose. I'll also have to re-evaluate my opinion of Nelly.

As for SK? Since I think Flea's scum and Nelly's town(I hope) I have to go with Vampdog. He's back now but still lurking so it definitely fits. I've suspected him a few times but when he got called out it kind of cleared him.

So him being the SK makes perfect sense.

Problem is, if we lynch town today, unless the scum and SK kill each other we lose. I've tried to work out all the scenarios but there's far too many. We can assume no more cops, no more doctors so if we lynch town today we're at 1 SK, 1 scum, 1 town. The night phase is gonna be a mess and town is most likely going to lose. So we HAVE to get this right.

It is logical to assume that if Aimee avoided SST name then in this scenario he is SCUM. Like I have said before I don't believe she would have brought up both Vampy & Muerrto if they were scum buddies while at the same time voting off VH who was her scum buddie. It just seems kind of excessive.

SK, I wish I could agree with you but as you know the only thing that cleared you in my eyes was the Aimee thing but now it is clear that you can be a SK and Aimee wouldn't have known about it. I won't lie I am leaning toward believing you are the SK...

Hold on I am going to stop right in the middle of my tracks and say something...

The more I think about it the more I realize that this more about who is going to win this game between the SK & Scum then about the townies winning. It would appear that only a few scenarios work right now in my mind...

(Names dont matter in these scenario just because your name is under a role doesn't mean you are that role)

Muerrto (SK), SST (Scum), Nelly (Town), Vampy (Town)

Nelly, Vampy & Muerrto lynch SST...

Muerrto NK's Vampy...

Next Day we have Nelly & Muerrto and I believe that is a SK win...

Another scenario:

Muerrto (SK), SST (Scum), Nelly (Town), Vampy (Town)

Nelly, Vampy & SST lynch Muerrto...

SST NK's Nelly...

Next Day we have SST & Vampy and I believe that is a Scum win...

Another Scenario:

Muerrto (SK), SST (Scum), Nelly (Town), Vampy (Town)

Nelly, SST & Muerrto lynch Vampy...

((( Muerrto NK's Nelly ))))
SST NK's Muerrto

SST Wins for Scum

((( SST NK's Nelly ))))
Muerrto NK's SST
Muerrto Wins as the SK

(((SST NK's Muerrto )))
Muerrto NK's SST
Nelly wins for the town

Another Scenario:

We NO LYNCH

Close our eyes & cross our fingers hoping that they take each other out lol

Because if one of the two townies get knocked out during the night and either the SK or the scum get knocked out then we are still left with 1 on 1 and that is bad.

The best scenario is for us to go for the SK and hope that the Roleblocking/Night Killing SCUM that is left cannot kill tonight then we have a chance for tomorrow.

My vote is on Muerrto as the Serial Killer but I can be swayed because it is not set in stone.

[Nelly632]

Ok let me see I am under the impression that the Scum who is left CANNOT NK tonight (Or atleast hope), the reason I assume this is because it just doesn't make sense for a scum who can Night Kill to continue to Roleblock DO when he could simply Night Kill and ensure that the scum have one less Town to deal with. But instead this scum Roleblocks DO for most of the game then does a Night Kill last night, leading me to believe that possibly he has only 1 night kill all together but once again I could and probably are wrong.

I believe Vampy is a Townie because why would Scum or even SK try to off himself on the last day.

I know I am town...

Muerrto like I said before because of Aimee I put you as the serial killer...

SST is are last scum...

But personally knowing these roles doesn't really matter to me at this point, I don't believe that lynching a townie is the right move.

scenario 1: we lynch town, leaving 1 scum, 1 SK, 1 town. the 2 killers choose their targets. both hit each other, town wins. 1 hits town, 1 hits the other, survivor wins. both hit town, draw game (deadlock tommorow, both kill each other that night)

So now we lynch Vampy who is Town and Muerrto & SST have to choose what to do. Both can target me leaving them at a deadlock tomorrow, one can target me leaving himself open to be killed by the other giving the win away. Or they can kill each other giving the town the win, what I am saying is "Why would they give the town the win?" We are hoping that they kill each other but why would they do that? If they kill each other they assure a victory for the town, no one wants to lose so lets say that just to be sure SST roleblocker blocks Muerrto and because of that we have no NK and now we are back on another Day.

Muerrto Votes for SST & SST votes for Muerrto, now what do I do? At this point the town has lost anyways so whats the point?

Now what I am saying about killing the serial killer is I think us townies should take a chance. We should kill the SK & take a chance on the last scum not having a NK.

If he doesn't then the next day arrives and we have a win.

I believe that Muerrto might think that SST doesn't have a NK so he wants to have a townie lynched so he can kill off SST giving him the victory.

I think SST would have voted off Vampy already if he had a NK available.

I don't know I could be wrong but at this point I will listen to Vampys wishes, if you honestly feel that my points are wrong and I should hammer you then I will do just that.

[Nelly632]

Why did the serial killer wait to the last night to show up and kill? All other kills appear to be the act of the Mafia and we get our first glance of a Knife killing just last night.

I am wondering why he didnt kill on the first two nights?

[Nelly632]

Is it possible that Hjallti was a paranoid doctor and he was both protecting and roleblocking DO this entire game not even knowing. Becuase if the SK took out Hjallti last night that mean he couldn't protect nor roleblock DO and he was killed by the scum.

[Nelly632]

Is it possible that Hjallti was a paranoid doctor and he was both protecting and roleblocking DO this entire game not even knowing. Becuase if the SK took out Hjallti last night that mean he couldn't protect nor roleblock DO and he was killed by the scum.

Normally, night actions go through, even if the actor (?) was killed that night. From what I've seen, anyway.

Well then I am wrong lol, I am not going to hammer a townie unless he tells me too so SST if you want to hammer him now I am sure it wont be a problem with them because they are the ones with the votes on Vampy.

[Nelly632]

Also, how can I possibly explain why I think you're either the SK or scum? Vamp's town for sacrificing himself, I know I'm town, ergo, you and Nelly are the anti-town. I knew I never should've let up on Nelly but sadly I DO have a history of doing that as I said.

This is exactly why i refuse to hammer, I would assume that Vampy is town because he is sacraficing himself and since I KNOW i am town I have to assume you are a liar Muerrto and you are one of the scummy roles. So I do not want to hammer because you are so clearly for it and I have to wonder why the SK OR SCUM wants the townie dead so quickly and us moving to night. I have to think if their is a ACE under your sleve.

Vote: Muerrto

I have to assume he is the SK & personally I would rather lynch a Serial Killer then Lynch a townie and take a chance on losing anyways. Atleast by lynching Muerrto we go down fighting town.

BTW Muerrto if you are Town and you claim we shoudl lynch a townie so we have a chance on winning this game then why don't you change your vote to yourself?

[Nelly632]

I didn't die last night because I'm a Bulletproof Townie, and, just in case it's relevant, being Bulletproof can't be effected by Roleblocks, since it's a passive ability (doesn't require a Nightchoice). I did not die last night, and I will not die tonight.

Oh, and since we're all on different teams, the very worst of luck to both of you...

Vote: No lynch

If you are really a bullet proof townie like you say you are then you should have trusted me when I say I am townie and we could have killed Muerrto.

But I believe you are just saying that in hopes that tonight Muerrto will believe you and Kill me leaving him open for a kill by you. So Muerrto if I was you I would fall for his game.

Anyways it seems like you all have already made the choice so let have a

Vote: No Lynch

[Nelly632]

Good Game people, nothing like being targeted by Two people on the last night LOL...