Mini 1543--Natirasha's On Parole!(Game Over)

[Selkies]

UNVOTE

We'll put our vote somewhere shortly.

[Selkies]

On whom?

[Selkies]

Yeah, I don't have enough to go on with Nacho. The Aronis push is something he'd do as either alignment. The switch to Ross at a point where my read was starting to fizz around the edges a little worries me. But, it takes quite a while for my Nacho read to go solid these days. :/

I got a really strong townsense from SSK early. I hate to let go of that because it doesn't happen very often with him.

Goodfather I dunno. He comes off really newb and suspicious of anything he hasn't encountered before. I never did really delve into his offsite games like I should have.

[Selkies]

I dunno. We're getting really different impressions of neighborhood-Aronis from the other two neighbor. The basis itself adds up - the conclusions are different. Aronis' reaction to his bandwagon looks newbtown, though, all the way down to the half-baked reads list.

I think I've only played one game with katsuki where he wasn't highly suspicious to at least one player. He's seems very reactive in a way that's reminiscent of ArcAngel, i.e., he assumes that people who suspect him are scum. In the games I've played with him it was a bad assumption. It was interesting to see that play out here as well. We went to the top of his scumpile when we voted him. AFAIK he still thinks we're scum but we've fallen off the radar since we stopped actively pushing him. I haven't played a game where he was scum. I kinda wonder if the similarities to AA9 hold in that alignment.

[Selkies]

Goodfather fits the profile of lurker-scum pretty well IMO. I don't know,

I see like very few if any dissent/doubts about players that I would expect from town, especially after the game got going.

What does this mean?

My scum reads have fallen apart. I want to get together with Orcinus if possible to see what he thinks, but I think it's going to come down to my vote decision today. How long are you going to be around? I want to review some stuff and see what I can sift from the null section of my pile.

oops. me.

[Selkies]

FourTrouble, how are you feeling about your Ross read?

[Selkies]

Yeah but I would have hammered him if I hadn't derped about nightfall. :/

[Selkies]

Do you see Aronis doing the stuff that you feel is missing from GoodFather's play?

[Selkies]

@Nati-Mod: will we get a deadline extension for the 2-ish hours of site down time?

[Selkies]

This spoiler stuff is getting annoying.

[Selkies]

VOTE: nachomamma8

My reasoning,
Playstyle seems really anti-town and I want to lynch someone before time runs up and you guys are really indecisive.

Is ross not "someone"?

Is his vote scummy?

[Selkies]

VOTE: nachomamma8

My reasoning,
Playstyle seems really anti-town and I want to lynch someone before time runs up and you guys are really indecisive.

Is ross not "someone"?

Is his vote scummy?

Merely interesting~

Adding 1 vote to a 1-vote wagon doesn't look very survivalistic to me.

The only way I can see any sort of scum sense given the vote mechanic is if Ross and Aronis are scum together.

Am I missing something?

[Selkies]

Am I missing something?

I'm waiting for you to give your reads list, it's been absent this entire day phase and it worries me deeply.

I haven't made an explicit list, but I think it's quite clear what my reads have been. My scumreads came unglued. I'm working through that right now in real time.

[Selkies]

My scum reads have fallen apart.

I want to get together with Orcinus if possible to see what he thinks, but I think it's going to come down to my vote decision today. How long are you going to be around? I want to review some stuff and see what I can sift from the null section of my pile.

While we're on the Ffery topic, this sounds so invented... "my reads fell apart" Another one of those lovely statements you can make to try to sound town.

It sounds almost like in 1436 (past game) where you were like "I've gone over things a million times in my head, and I've flopped back and forth for N number of times."

One of these days you're going to figure out that the reason scum won 1436 was because I wasn't playing my scum game.

I had Aronis and Ross both as scum. That's up in the air right now. This game has my full attention while I work through that.

[Selkies]

I had Aronis and Ross both as scum. That's up in the air right now. This game has my full attention while I work through that.

Umm...ffery you know you never made it clear you ever were reading Aronis-scum...

You asked Cabd for his reasoning, and you mentioned how you wanted to look into Aronis more because you think Cabd's town. Aronis seemed more like a potential option to look into, but nothing more than that - were you being purposely ambiguous????.... This makes me wonder if you're really thinking this game through from a townie mindset.

Hesitancy you're showing is one thing I can understand, but tacking on an "in case it isn't clear, we're reading Aronis (!) and Ross" as scum. Basically, both options aka both main wagons.

That said, I actually will post a reads list sometime today.

I'd still like for you to talk about your Aronis read

If Cabd's town, and I think he probably is, I want to put some weight on his Aronis read. But, I wish he'd put more reasoning down. I'm also looking at Ross and maybe Goodfather. But, my Goodfather issue is mostly because his vote has been really sticky in the face of most of his concerns about us getting dog-eared.

There were three main reasons I had Aronis as potential scum - Cabd's read, Orcinus' read and a 3 player neighborhood. Orcinus preferred Aronis or Katsuki for lynch the last time we talked and he was caught up. I didn't.

He's out of that group now. Rereading and rethinking, I still think Ross could be scum. And I think you made some good points about Goodfather. I discounted him mostly because he was all freaked out about noisy hydrae.

[Selkies]

It wouldn't be a day 1 without some Bert paranoia. That pretty much seals my town read. :/

[Selkies]

I'm starting to regret derailing the selkies wagon earlier, ffery, so if you're town you need to be

really

town right now.

I thought muffin derailed it, to the extent we didn't derail it ourselves.

So, you want to talk reads or not?

[Selkies]

It wouldn't be a day 1 without some Bert paranoia. That pretty much seals my town read. :/

He's been town for pages

Quite. Now there's a bow on it.

[Selkies]

Town:

Cabd
FourTrouble
Bert
zmuffin

Maybe Town:

IdiotKing – neighbor, muffin thinks he's town, some of his posts have resonated town pretty strongly
Aronis – neighbor, seems newbtown
NotSci (King Kenny was null, leaning scum due to lurk/flake). Notsci hasn't pestered me nearly enough about how obvtown he is.
Nacho (inherited a scummy-looking slot, hasn't towned it up except in terms of sheer bravado
SSK – town read has gone stale. Didn't like his last post.

Not So Town:

Goodfather – there's probably some bias here due to his sticky vote on us
Ross – could move him up, but I think Aronis has looked more town (newb factor maybe)
Katsuki



If there's scum in the neighborhood, I strongly doubt it's muffin.

List is not seriatim.

[Selkies]

heh. Why aren't you, though?

[Selkies]

Ffery and Cabd- What are your thoughts on Ross's vote?

About the same as my thoughts on Aronis' vote for Nacho.

What are your thoughts about it?

[Selkies]

I play a different game replacing into a game, especially near deadline. It has to do with the need to establish a presence and stance quickly vs having the luxury of time to think and experience the game in real time. Based on feedback in a few recent games, I think I've probably gone too far in the observational mode direction. It will be interesting to see what sort of feedback I get in the next few games, because I will be making some adjustments.

[Selkies]

RossWilliams

Based on my rethink, if it were a week from deadline I'd try to sort GoodFather. There isn't time, and I'm not going to throw out a vanity wagon. Goodfather is my message to day 2.

[Selkies]

VOTE: RossWilliams

[Selkies]

I will be here. I won't be happy about changing my vote if it turns out I need to.

[Selkies]

ugh.

[Selkies]

^says the person who said (see below) - lol spare me <3

I won't be happy about changing my vote if it turns out I need to.

Says the person who went from voting me to following my vote.

[Selkies]

I haven't seen "lady ffery" in at least a month! Made me smile.

[Selkies]

VOTE: Selkies

Starting here.

This fails on such a fundamental level.

[Selkies]

hello im here

[Selkies]

If we were scum, one of you or Nacho would be dead. I don't know how to pull off another Newbie 1436 yet, and the old one will never work again.

[Selkies]

hello im here

Hi. I found out you're scum.

Would you like to....

A: Discredit me
B: Set up false links to townies on your way down
C: Try to change my read with ~effort~
D: All of the above

none, actually, because you can read our town game so im sure you'll come round soon enough.

VOTE: aronis

[Selkies]

Option E.

[Selkies]

We're arguing about that vote atm.

[Selkies]

Not going to prove anything. Going to be what we are, which includes currently in disagreement about where our vote should be.

UNVOTE

[Selkies]

I don't get the reference to AA, though.

[Selkies]

Unless you're talking about that day 1 push that scum-you made on us for Nati's semi-appearance the night he traveled back home?

[Selkies]

Unless you're talking about that day 1 push that scum-you made on us for Nati's semi-appearance the night he traveled back home?

Yeah, that one and just the whole general manipulation of Nat.
I dunno. I just really liked my play in that game.

That game shook my belief that Nati can read you well. I think it shook his confidence a little too. :/

I still don't understand what scum-you putting Nati through the wringer has to do with this game. I don't think there's a similar wringer you can use on orcinus or me. And if there is, then I don't understand why you'd want to draw a parallel to your scum game in this game.

[Selkies]

I quit clicking links and didn't review the entire list yet. but saw you led off with what were some of my best scum games. If you cherry picked such that some of my less than stellar town and scum games aren't in that pile, expect squinty eyes.

[Selkies]

Unless you're talking about that day 1 push that scum-you made on us for Nati's semi-appearance the night he traveled back home?

Yeah, that one and just the whole general manipulation of Nat.
I dunno. I just really liked my play in that game.

That game shook my belief that Nati can read you well. I think it shook his confidence a little too. :/

I still don't understand what scum-you putting Nati through the wringer has to do with this game. I don't think there's a similar wringer you can use on orcinus or me. And if there is, then I don't understand why you'd want to draw a parallel to your scum game in this game.

I was talking about how Cabd was so certain of you? And how it reminded me of my push on Nat in AA?

Hell if I can follow your thought process then. You're comparing Cabd's play to your AA game? And you're voting US?

[Selkies]

@Cabd

Do you feel like those games represent the scope of my town and scum games?

[Selkies]

@Cabd

Do you feel like those games represent the scope of my town and scum games?

No, they're all the games we've been together in. You should have noticed that.

I think one is missing.

[Selkies]

I will be here. I won't be happy about changing my vote if it turns out I need to.

So let's start off with a post from yesterday, If I understand correctly, you do not want to move your vote to me, how nice.

hello im here

Hi. I found out you're scum.

Would you like to....

A: Discredit me
B: Set up false links to townies on your way down
C: Try to change my read with ~effort~
D: All of the above

none, actually, because you can read our town game so im sure you'll come round soon enough.

VOTE: aronis

Now you come out today and start off by voting me without any damn reasons, which is how I originally got votes put on me. And right after you weren't moving your vote yesterday. Could you explain that? Or are you just wanting to lynch a weaker player?

Yesterday's post was fferyllt. Today's vote post was Orcinus. I unvoted, and we're talking about where our vote goes next.

[Selkies]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32904

kind of a significant game.

[Selkies]

If we were scum, one of you or Nacho would be dead. I don't know how to pull off another Newbie 1436 yet, and the old one will never work again.

First, Why on earth are you even thinking about who you would kill? Second, why would you go after Nacho? They are one of the weakest players who have been more anti-town then town. All in all, this post would not be made by a townie and I fail to see the reasoing behind it.

Because IF I were scum, those two players, if town would be the biggest threats to me. Way bigger than FourTrouble. Arguably Cabd would scare me more because his scum game has shaped mine, though I've definitely backslid since the last morph scum game. Nacho's had more influence on my town game.

[Selkies]

Based on my rethink, if it were a week from deadline I'd try to sort GoodFather. There isn't time, and I'm not going to throw out a vanity wagon. Goodfather is my message to day 2.

GoodFather is a person of interest to me.

Also, I'd like to hear from Idiotking and Zmuffin what their current thoughts on Aronis are.

[Selkies]

Be happy that you got your lynch, lady ffery

And this post kinda stood out to me after the flip.

[Selkies]

Personally I find that answer the typical reaction and most unsatisfactory.

You just set it up perfectly, Congrats! This is exactly why you would kill FourTrouble, nobody expects it, it doesn't make any damn since for you to, so by default you must be town. Oh and don't forget the two other people on your team who wanted to lynch FT, another reason why you couldn't lynch Nacho.

My vote is staying on Mafia.

Your vote is not on Mafia.

As scum, I PR hunt for night kills, and barring that I either go after players I feel are threats to my team, or I go for unconventional kills. If you read through the first game that Cabd linked and find the Night 1 kill announcement you'll find a kill that matches the third criteria - my partner and I killed a player who claimed vanilla town at the end of day 1.

[Selkies]

Personally I find that answer the typical reaction and most unsatisfactory.

You just set it up perfectly, Congrats! This is exactly why you would kill FourTrouble, nobody expects it, it doesn't make any damn since for you to, so by default you must be town. Oh and don't forget the two other people on your team who wanted to lynch FT, another reason why you couldn't lynch Nacho.

My vote is staying on Mafia.

Your vote is not on Mafia.

As scum, I PR hunt for night kills, and barring that I either go after players I feel are threats to my team, or I go for unconventional kills. If you read through the first game that Cabd linked and find the Night 1 kill announcement you'll find a kill that matches the third criteria - my partner and I killed a player who claimed vanilla town at the end of day 1.

That's cool. Everyone always follows their same criteria every time. That totally happens.

On the contrary. I outlined three very different criteria.

[Selkies]

A SELKIE WAGON??!?

VOTE SELKIE

someone wake me up when we decide to policy this sack of shit

i will try my utmost to do something tonight

[Selkies]

You just set it up perfectly, Congrats! This is exactly why you would kill FourTrouble, nobody expects it, it doesn't make any damn since for you to, so by default you must be town.

In 1436, Ffery made a kill on goodmorning, a claimed VT, because it was an odd kill, and a kill on Cabd or someone else might implicate her in some other way. (1436 is a past newbie game).

So don't buy into her WIFOM about NKs if that is helping to change your read.

Vote: Selkies

You mean the wifom where I cited the very game you've brought up here as one example of the sorts of kills I favor as scum?

Personally I find that answer the typical reaction and most unsatisfactory.

You just set it up perfectly, Congrats! This is exactly why you would kill FourTrouble, nobody expects it, it doesn't make any damn since for you to, so by default you must be town. Oh and don't forget the two other people on your team who wanted to lynch FT, another reason why you couldn't lynch Nacho.

My vote is staying on Mafia.

Your vote is not on Mafia.

As scum, I PR hunt for night kills, and barring that I either go after players I feel are threats to my team, or I go for unconventional kills.

If you read through the first game that Cabd linked and find the Night 1 kill announcement you'll find a kill that matches the third criteria - my partner and I killed a player who claimed vanilla town at the end of day 1

.

[Selkies]

VOTE: Goodfather

[Selkies]

ou mean the wifom where I cited the very game you've brought up here as one example of the sorts of kills I favor as scum?

you're using NKA as a reason that you're town, right? it's not a tell

If you read through the first game that Cabd linked and find the Night 1 kill announcement you'll find a kill that matches the third criteria - my partner and I killed a player who claimed vanilla town at the end of day 1.

this supports what rationale of yours?

My job is to find town and find scum, and to get scum lynched. I'm not going to "prove" I'm town. There are players in this game who've seen my scum game from the other side of the curtain. It's not a matter of NKA. It's a matter of what I as scum would think was necessary to help my team win.

I think my vote is on scum.

[Selkies]

I think my vote is on scum.

you're sheeping me, so duh

You're sheeping me.

[Selkies]

I'm not going to "prove" I'm town.

->

So I'm going to be ridiculously transparent this game. But I don't know how to obvtown, so you'll have to bear with me and deal with the body of work.

That's right. I don't know how to obvtown. I know how to be town. And I trust it becomes apparent as the game evolves. It usually does.

[Selkies]

I think my vote is on scum.

you're sheeping me, so duh

You're sheeping me.

i sheeped you before you voted?
is it possible to be a god of sheep?

Based on my rethink, if it were a week from deadline I'd try to sort GoodFather. There isn't time, and I'm not going to throw out a vanity wagon. Goodfather is my message to day 2.

GoodFather is a person of interest to me.

Also, I'd like to hear from Idiotking and Zmuffin what their current thoughts on Aronis are.

[Selkies]

What are your thoughts about Nacho?

[Selkies]

GF
IK
You (but it's kinda close)
Maybe Selkies

Did you post some reasoning to go with this?

[Selkies]

So I am gonna be busy taking care of family stuff irl for the next day or two, so i thought i'd post now before i won't have a chance to. Seems like i have a wagon on me, and it seems like its nobody's fault but mine for not being particularly active this game. I don't wanna to be lynched today, so here a breakdown of how i see the game so far:

1. MafiaSSK* - 135 ( seemingly blindly accepts a case on katsuki), 166 (another blind acceptance of a selkies lynch), 231 (gets convinced by selkies of a muffin lynch) 236 and 914 (defends aronis the first time, then jumps on the lynch)

over 100 plus posts with almost no content, multiple vote shifts with little to no justification except for blindly accepting other arguments. 270 is the only semblance of scumhunting

SSK is one of my scum reads

2. Cabd - town; seems to be scumhunting in earnest

3. Selkies(fferyllt+orcinus_theoriginal) - null; not sure about selkies. Still adjusting to hydras

4. zMuffinMan - null leaning town; his playstyle is very foreign to me, a lot of his posts lack justification, but it seems as if he reserves his reasoning for posts like 590. out of the three in the neighborhood, he is 2nd most likely to be town imo (after IK and before aronis)

6. notscience King Kenny - null leaning town; this read is a lot my read on bert. Their posts, also kinda like nachos are more conversational than i am used to. i am also thrown off by the whole in thread qt thing they have going on.

7. The Goodfather** - town

8. Nachomamma8 kabooooom - like bert and NS, i am getting a mostly null vibe, but i am leaning scum just because that was how i read his slot while kaboooom was playing.

9. Bert Karlos4 - same as not science, null leaning town

11. Aronis** - scum (most likely scum in the neighborhood). He has changed his votes almost 10 times, altogether voting for 6 or 7 different people, with little to no reasoning each time. seems to just hop on whatever wagon is convenient

12. Idiotking* - like his playstyle, and i think he is the most likely town in the neighborhood

13. Katsuki* - scum - seems to be trying to skate by without doing anything. Maybe his meta, but if this is his town game, he is not an asset to our game at all

those are my thoughts.

I am gonna try to post more in the next couple of days, but i may be busy.

How did you develop a read on kaboooom?

What's the basis for your pushing us to scum to null? You haven't changed the reasoning at all from what I can tell.

What's the basis for your notsci town lean? You've described stuff about his style of play, but there's nothing about what's alignment indicative to it. And how the hell can you characterize bert's play as similar to notsci's in any meaningful way?

[Selkies]

Unvote, Vote: Selkies

:/

[Selkies]

yo selkies thoughts on nacho's vote on u pl0x

I just found it. I got all distracted by the valentines quiz results.

I miss the days when I was easy to read. I don't think I'm really harder to read, though.

[Selkies]

Ffery, same question with a sub-question of "what the fuck is Orcinus doing with his passion since it isn't here"

I'm doing my thing. And I'm not letting fatalism set in this game. Orcinus isn't around much and we haven't talked about the game since right after day 2 started. I'm driving for now.

What do you think about Goodfather?

[Selkies]

Nahco, what the actual fuck are you doing this game?

Ffery, same question with a sub-question of "what the fuck is Orcinus doing with his passion since it isn't here"

+1000000 town points for Cabd.

i dont understand any of your posts

sorry friends i just got back to school and life sucks

catching up with ffery now

[Selkies]

goddamnit i keep having to hop offline because stuff keeps coming up

anyways

my reads right now: cabd town, nacho lean town, katsuki needs to be policy lynched

ill try to be around for interaction

also idiotking town.

muffin im leaving to fery

ssk town due to early game. him falling off like this i feel resembles his normal games closely so im not worried

the ingame masonry makes me lean town on both bert and notscience. it's not very much to go on, but i think the inquisitiveness would be kinda hard to fake. also from what i understand of their play, they seem to enjoy town more than scum, and this sort of lighthearted behavior falls inline with that

[Selkies]

yo selkies thoughts on nacho's vote on u pl0x

I just found it. I got all distracted by the valentines quiz results.

I miss the days when I was easy to read. I don't think I'm really harder to read, though.

the day nacho doesn't vote me at least once in the game is a strange day indeed

[Selkies]

So who is scum then, orci?

right now obviously i have enough town reads to POE down to a reasonable number. katsuki, goodfather, aronis

[Selkies]

you haven't pushed aronis yet today why is that

[Selkies]

Hmm, that dos well enough for now.

UNVOTE:

Really? That WIFOM was enough?

sort of reminds me of scum being thrown by a perceived easy wagon not being so easy

interesting how his next post was to mediate his position on us and then lurk

open to rethinking ssk

[Selkies]

nacho what do you think of cabd? in 69 posts you haven't mentioned a semblance of a read on him

[Selkies]

you haven't pushed aronis yet today why is that

Who me? I'm not terribly worried about him anymore.

what changed your mind?

Tippy lost as jester

Lold

chortle

[Selkies]

well you're silly

[Selkies]

whoops misread 1174, was going too fast

why are we scum

[Selkies]

Well I take that back, I'll tell ffery when she's around.

o hai

[Selkies]

As far as parking your vote, it's pretty clear you're going to be paranoid about me as long as we're both in the game. That needs to be resolved before LYLO.

Nacho's not around to talk to. I want to know 1) why he voted us and 2) why he almost immediately switched to Aronis when he's back.

I'm not scumreading Aronis. I haven't dug into the game you linked yet.

[Selkies]

Nacho's not around to talk to. I want to know 1) why he voted us and 2) why he almost immediately switched to Aronis when he's back.

i had a moment of paranoia
aronis vote feels more horrible than it did before

Orcinus and I don't agree yet on aronis. I need to go look at that other game, but he's being pretty aggressive and irritable for newbscum here.

[Selkies]

i don't like meta

lol'd. almost went looking for an appropriate smilie.

[Selkies]

I smile all the time. But mafia is srsbzns.

[Selkies]

Well I take that back, I'll tell ffery when she's around.

o hai

You know that one thing that you sometimes like to pretend to think like? I'm doing that.

That works out pretty well sometimes. For me it's an interactive thing.

[Selkies]

Or you could ask me why Cabd's town.

[Selkies]

a lot of it comes down to how he's interacting with me. If he were scum, he would have picked a stance and would be more consistent. There'd be a big ah ha in his stance change. This is true of interactions with other players as well, but I see it more clearly in his stance on me because I am a little myopic that way - how people read me and interact with me informs my read of them because it's easy to test and push at.

The other major factor was his gambit-crumbing on day 1. As scum, crumbing would have been part of a grand plan, and I would expect it to start more subtly yesterday and then crescendo today. This fit how he gambits as town IMO.

[Selkies]

now can we lynch ssk together, ffery?

I want to know what orcinus thinks about it. I can see SSK stepping up his game in honor of Nati's triumphant return to modding.

[Selkies]

The bigger question is whether getting more involved in a Nati game is alignment indicative. People get more or less involved in games for a variety of reasons.

He was more involved in the AA game because he was playing against town-Nati.

[Selkies]

Yeah, as scum. And I'm not sure either.

[Selkies]

You know how sometimes one post convinces you?

You also know how one convincing post can lead to a terrible misread. :/

[Selkies]

which post was it?

140. That whole exchange between Four Trouble and SSK was good, though.

p-edit. Yeah the Empking post in the JS micro was one of the posts/games I was thinking about.

[Selkies]

nacho what do you think of ssk's early game

[Selkies]

You're starting to worry me, Cabd

[Selkies]

Not fery

What's your read on us, Cabd?

[Selkies]

Ffery why is Cabd starting to worry you

He's not.

[Selkies]

Not fery

What's your read on us, Cabd?

Still more likely to be town than not, but this bullshit you're trying to kick up on me is liable to get you killed.

what bullshit?

why is there an invisible barrier protecting you from scrutiny?

[Selkies]

i am fery's little bitch and cabd is obvtown

what worried me initially was his trajectory on us (which i didn't understand) and that i felt like he wasn't doing as much as I recall him doing

but whatever im ok with cabd staying in our town pile

[Selkies]

I repeat, why is Cabd starting to worry you or your hydra buddy?

yo calm down i was talking

why is there an invisible barrier protecting you from scrutiny?

Nacho+ffery townread means you're gonna have to sit outside in the rain, orc.

crazy italiano

[Selkies]

cabd, what do you think of bert?

[Selkies]

@Aronis: SSK, Selkies for sure

Last one is harder, still slight scumread on Goodfather - getting Tiershift past game vibes in his explanations - I may be wrong on Katsuki or notscience

wait, why are you scumreading us?

[Selkies]

ssk looks like too easy a vote, and i am still having a hard time believing his day 1 play could be scum

[Selkies]

meta dives and observations really do nothing to advance the game state? need I go further?

what the fuck is this a response to

[Selkies]

and your vote on Aronis earlier in this game wasn't too easy?

i feel like you get the vibe that im accusing you of something and i dont know what it is

Pedit: so what exactly would you classify as productive?

[Selkies]

yes and we promptly threatened to kill you, remember that?

[Selkies]

we didn't promptly threaten to kill you,

that's the point.

yeah idk our hydra is weird sometimes because i occasionally go super-lurky and i think fery wanted to wait for me

i gotta jump to track, brb

[Selkies]

Heh. I was right. On day 1.

[Selkies]

wow what enthusiasm. and so do you believe him or not??????????????

Are you kidding? I'm smug as hell and Orcinus is going to eat crow. I told him on day 1 that Cabd was crumbing vig.

Also 1466. There was a reason I was calling it a gambit.

[Selkies]

He did kinda telegraph that. Asked if the neighborhood could have a factional kill.

[Selkies]

So you think nati would put two vigs in a game?


..oh actually I kinda do. Either way, dayvig claim is testable.

I do. Question is how it's balanced.

I also think the way he claimed it looks pretty genuine.

[Selkies]

welp.

If you ever are (or want to fake it) claim that way again.

[Selkies]

wow what enthusiasm. and so do you believe him or not??????????????

Are you kidding? I'm smug as hell and Orcinus is going to eat crow. I told him on day 1 that Cabd was crumbing vig.

Also 1466. There was a reason I was calling it a gambit.

oh ok so you think it's just a gambit. got it

oh and does SSK freak out like this often

I'm not saying whether I think it's a gambit or not. it was a nice opportunity to say I thought it was a gambit.

[Selkies]

Guess fucking what Bert? I didn't post because there were a few votes on me. I posted because it was nearing yet another 48 hours and I hadn't posted. So I posted.

^scum manifesto so why are you lurking then after what you tried to do D1. what happened to "stepping it up because it's Nat's game"

Oh wait, that was just soap scum hmm?

BECAUSE OF FUCKING REAL LIFE. I STARTED LURKING IN ALL OF MY DAMN GAMES.
Fine, fuck it, lurking can be alignment indicative sometimes. But not for me. And definitely not here.
SO FUCKING STOP WITH YOUR SHITTY REASONING.

ive got like 2 bucks on this post making bert even more nervous about us haha

i agree with bert and here is why

normally townie anger is when they are being misunderstood or ignored on something they've been trying very hard to get across

ssk hasn't even been here. i dont understand how this anger would be justified in his mind. it doesn't seem in line with his other play

i read a scum ssk game that fery showed me. i feel like the distinguishing factor between his scum and town games is that his scum game is more aggressive, his town game much more apathetic

i think 1578 is in-line with that scum meta

confirming fery told me that cabd was a vig day 1 ><

[Selkies]

where the hell is idiotking and notscience?

[Selkies]

Cabd what are your thoughts?

[Selkies]

So I lied not gonna get caught up in this game anytime soon.

If you are town plz stop being utterly useless.

I think orcinus and I are approaching something resembling consonance about you.

[Selkies]

That I'm voting somebody later, and vigging the fuck out of SSK for the past few pages.

Ok. We'll go back to arguing.

[Selkies]

Guess fucking what Bert? I didn't post because there were a few votes on me. I posted because it was nearing yet another 48 hours and I hadn't posted. So I posted.

^scum manifesto so why are you lurking then after what you tried to do D1. what happened to "stepping it up because it's Nat's game"

Oh wait, that was just soap scum hmm?

BECAUSE OF FUCKING REAL LIFE. I STARTED LURKING IN ALL OF MY DAMN GAMES.
Fine, fuck it, lurking can be alignment indicative sometimes. But not for me. And definitely not here.
SO FUCKING STOP WITH YOUR SHITTY REASONING.

ive got like 2 bucks on this post making bert even more nervous about us haha

i agree with bert and here is why

normally townie anger is when they are being misunderstood or ignored on something they've been trying very hard to get across

ssk hasn't even been here. i dont understand how this anger would be justified in his mind. it doesn't seem in line with his other play

i read a scum ssk game that fery showed me. i feel like the distinguishing factor between his scum and town games is that his scum game is more aggressive, his town game much more apathetic

i think 1578 is in-line with that scum meta

confirming fery told me that cabd was a vig day 1 ><

Orci, you have to realize that this is something that I've just shrugged off and dealt with in a lot of the games that I've played here. And it's just here is where I broke. I just needed to let it all out. I wasn't raging because I was trying to AtE. I was angry because I'm honestly angry. And confused. I don't know how I can play and be seen as town. If I post a lot, scum. If I post not, scum.

Oh and for all you know I could have been here. Just reading the thread and not posting. Watching everyone post patronizing comments about that "lurkerfuck". Just because I don't post doesn't mean that I'm not reading posts.

But then you generalize my games based off of my general aggressiveness. Emotions change over time, orci. Sometimes I'm more aggressive sometimes I'm not. That's also not alignment indicative. I'm not some mafiabot.

Just level with me here, do you think I'm scum?

yes i do

although i've never seen you AtE this hard

[Selkies]

i personally dont think there's anything wrong with it, nor did I imply that there was

i was just making an observation because that's not something i've seen in either of your metas

[Selkies]

i think when i stop being lazy (i say tomorrow, but i am the king of broken promises, so we'll see i guess) i'll properly sort goodfather then go back and look at the end of D1 and the aronis/ross wagons

coz i still have this icky feeling that aronis was basically talked into upping activity to look town after yesterday and everything he writes makes me want to pl him

idk about goodfather but this sounds like a thrilling read

[Selkies]

Cabd and I were in that game as well. There was no flip-out from SSK. It was a mass claim situation.

I know the paradox prime game was a long time ago and I think it was SSK's first game upon becoming an active player at MS again. He was mislynched after claiming bullet-proof town iirc. No flip-out. I can't think of a game he and I have played where he's reacted this way.

[Selkies]

VOTE: ssk

-orci

katsuki really, really, really needs to go

[Selkies]

UNVOTE: wait

[Selkies]

Also, Cabd, shoot Katsuki. Please. You'd be doing us all a big favor. I'll give you all the change in my pocket if you do.

i second this

if we massclaim, katsuki goes first, then we popcorn from there

fery and i are discussing ssk right now. i think we might do a final meta dive on ssk tonight regarding his fakeclaiming.

[Selkies]

Why do you people encourage him to keep playing like this i don't understand

[Selkies]

Do u think he or she is capable of playing better??? Examples from the past???

This wasn't a great game for any of the town players, but Katsuki was engaged and trying all the way to the end: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=28947

He voted me in 3P LYLO and scum-Swords hammered. But, the point is he was active and engaged.

I'm still really, really reminded of ArcAngel's super-reactive reads and pushes.

[Selkies]

Do u think he or she is capable of playing better??? Examples from the past???

no, i just find it intensely irritating that people let katsuki think that his play is even remotely ok

lynch him enough and he will get the picture. if someone develops a meta for being shit, i honestly don't understand why we encourage that meta by townreading him

is there a reason that you're spamming question marks???

[Selkies]

Wow ffery got brought to 3pm LYLO as town

Holy....

It was one of my worst town games ever.

[Selkies]

Fery I'm on my phone

I'm ok with L-1ing SSK right now

[Selkies]

No, I'm on my phone. I also don't care for his future long term meta and you're suggsting we lynch him to make a long term statement that his or her play is not ok

Hence the ??!!!!!

Yes and this is why site meta is shit right now

Also I'm suggesting to lynch him because he's being townread for adhering to his town meta, which apparently is to be an arrogant useless shitsack. I am not ok with this reason for town reading people

[Selkies]

Lynch or shoot^

I honestly don't care which at this point

[Selkies]

No, I'm on my phone. I also don't care for his future long term meta and you're suggsting we lynch him to make a long term statement that his or her play is not ok

Hence the ??!!!!!

Yes and this is why site meta is shit right now

Also I'm suggesting to lynch him because he's being townread for adhering to his town meta, which apparently is to be an arrogant useless shitsack. I am not ok with this reason for town reading people

This is going to sound sarcastic, but it's not, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that my lurking makes you think I'm an arrogant useless shitsack. That type of anger really shouldn't be in a game. We should be playing to have fun. I'll try and be more active if that would help, I guess.
Sorry.

That wasn't even referring to you but ok

[Selkies]

I'm liking Guyett so far.

Nacho's kinda bugging me. I keep pushing scary thoughts away, but I don't have a good read there.

[Selkies]

Scary thoughts?? Elaborate please because that's super easy for you to write

He really didn't come in at replacement and try to town the hell out of the game, which I am reading as something town-nacho would be more likely to do than scum-nacho. But, realistically, I'm terrible at catching scum-nacho.

The interactions with you looked pretty smooth and easy going. You probably have a better feel for whether he can do that and get past you as scum.

[Selkies]

ffs Bert.

Learn to read me.

[Selkies]

No I don't, he is tough to read.

And you are not terrible at catching scum-nacho. That's a bold-faced fib.

I haven't caught him and held onto the read since buzzword bingo.

[Selkies]

ffs Bert.

Learn to read me.

Ffs you said this in 1526 so don't give me that

I said something similar. I don't think there was any real bite to it. I don't really get annoyed at someone for being right. I get annoyed at myself for being obviously scum.

That's not what's happening here.

[Selkies]

You have enough past analysis that you've already done so that you can't classify it as anything less than adequate

Proof is in the pudding.

[Selkies]

Also why is me giving you a reads list so important to you? That's not the way I've chosen to play this game, and thus that is not ow m going to play.

What's the reason for playing this game the way you are?

[Selkies]

oh yeah i wasn't around when it was being discussed but i agree with whoever said mass claim today is a good idea

That was me.


Neighbors, Vig, Doctor. Expecting at most one more PR for town.

So are we doing this?

[Selkies]

you and bert both, this is the game I'm going to link to when you claim to be able to read me in the future.

And I swear if I have to move off GF and he flips scum you will never hear the end of it.

[Selkies]

are you suggesting that you think SSK is town too because

Fery I'm on my phone

I'm ok with L-1ing SSK right now

Yeah I do think so. Vig suggests a protective role of some sort IMO.

[Selkies]

fuck?

[Selkies]

Nacho if he really believed in an Aronis lynch could sway it.

Ditto with Ffery on Goodfather.

What do you think about Aronis voting to tie up our wagon with his?

And what would you think if I did the same thing and put him ahead and at L-2?

[Selkies]

There's a cop now?

i should hope so. No one has claimed if thats what you're asking, but i would hope we have a cop in action to help us determine alignments. Is it that strange to assume there is a cop? fyi, i'd be fine with the cop (assuming there is one) to investigate me if i am truly as suspicious as selkies makes me out to be. I just feel like their vote is OMGUS for my suspicion of them dp1

lol. that's a rather delayed OMGUS. I tend to do the opposite. Even if I suspect someone I put a lot of extra thought into it if they're voting me.

is selkies a hydra with ffery in it?

ffery and orcinus.

[Selkies]

Still get vibes of phok/TIP from Chosen, and I really think his actions and everything are just really scummy in general - that doesn't mean scum.

I wouldn't really care if you put him at L-2. I'm not going to vote him today, and I doubt he'll flip scum...plus you wanted to lynch him yesterday but settled for Ross as your #1 choice D1. I still think your play has been more like your scumplay than anything. You haven't done anything to really try to get an actual wagon going on GF. A limp vote all day long isn't good.

P-edit: Yes Guyitt, it's Ffery + Orcinus

Some truth to that. But, Orcinus and I aren't in agreement right now. He thought there's scum in the neighborhood and we should move to Aronis or maybe IK.

[Selkies]

Oh, and I also really like his vote on you Ffery

because I think you're scum

. <3 Plus, I'd go insane if I were in his neighborhood, and I can't imagine how he is feeling in that QT. There's nothing wrong with ignoring a QT especially if you don't trust each other, like IK accused him of doing.

No kidding. You've been yelling it from the rooftop since day 1.

[Selkies]

Bert, if you're so sure we're scum then who's our partners?

[Selkies]

help me ns lynch ffery u wouldn't listen 1526

Where are the scum on my wagon?

Will you vote GF tomorrow?

[Selkies]

VOTE: selkies

This is 100% without a doubt a spite vote and a sheeping of bert

This is you abdicating responsibility for your vote.

[Selkies]

I have to admit, having the power to lolhammer ffery is ever so tempting.

It's probably for the best. I don't want to be at LYLO with bert again. He'll never, ever see town-me in that situation again.

[Selkies]

But ffery, you get to start off massclaim popcorn now~

Town Vanilla.

[Selkies]

Is that a vanilla claim?

Obviously.

[Selkies]

Okay. If you flip town i'll let you direct the shot. Name your target, and we'll mercylynch ya.

GF.

[Selkies]

sigh.

townreads: bert, nacho, cabd, zmuffin

[Selkies]

Questions for me?

[Selkies]

orcinus would say Aronis is the scum on our wagon. He may be right but the bluster and aggressiveness looks newbtown to me.

I really do think nacho's town.

[Selkies]

heh.

[Selkies]

What kind of face would you make were you to hit the dead QT and it turned out me and nacho and muffin were the scumteam?

it would involve skull and crossbones.

[Selkies]

though it would kind of explain bert of all people being able to push this wagon to L-1.

[Selkies]

heh.

Not answering those is a scumclaim~

troll

[Selkies]

I wish I was scum here, being able to say "I mislynched ffery" would be worth it.

feeling quite smug about 1426 atm.

[Selkies]

heh.

Not answering those is a scumclaim~

troll

Nope, serious. Answer or die.

I might work on them.

[Selkies]

I followed that game. I forgot you were the drunkhammerer.

[Selkies]

That was a pretty quick reversal of opinion, ffery. You are now sure you DON'T want to get lynched today?

What is this in reply to?

[Selkies]

why are you confident in GF as scum, ffery

what has he done, and why havent you pushed that case if you believe enough to recommend he be vigged

You guys were lynching me without orcinus around to make his case for Aronis or IK. If we are getting lynched today I hope you'll give us both time to post well formed last thoughts.

[Selkies]

why are you confident in GF as scum, ffery

what has he done, and why havent you pushed that case if you believe enough to recommend he be vigged

You guys were lynching me without orcinus around to make his case for Aronis or IK. If we are getting lynched today I hope you'll give us both time to post well formed last thoughts.

doesn't look like you're gonna die today. Why not answer berts question? I would like you to elaborate on your read on me as well selkies/ffery/orc whoever i am talking to

Should be up tonight.

[Selkies]

I would like you to elaborate on your read on me as well

selkies/ffery/orc whoever i am talking to

btw this comes off as a sort of discredit.

[Selkies]

here's my aronis case

so first off, in reading newbies like aronis, you don't attack their scumhunting. they don't know how--that's what makes them new.

so even though i think that their cases on basically everyone sucks, we discount them for the purposes of reading his alignment.

the bits that are telling for me are a lot of his awkward moments. i think that awkwardness is the most telling bit for new scum players. take fuzzy in last tales game--a bit off in his thought process for sure, but his posts had trajectory.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=37613

Aronis scum game just ended

Meta time guys

Interesting

I hate you. Now I'll get lynched, because of something totally unrelated to this game.

this does not. this is random, this is naked and unreasonable anger at something that impacts a hypothetical scum win-con.

this post, tbh, comprises much more of my scumread on aronis than it should. assuming he's scum, if I were a newbie in aronis' shoes, I'd be pretty satisfied with my scumplay. I think that this response demonstrates perfectly that he feels that being lynched would be unfair and undeserving wrt his play, which is perfectly in-line with this narrative. This fits much more in aronis-scum model than it does with aronis-town.

a lot of aronis' play this game can be described as overeager, which is a trait in newbies that can swing to both alignments. fuzzy was overeager as fuck. aronis displays the same, but there is a lot less town motivation in his overeagerness. his dayvig claim had no plan behind it--like, even early-

varsoon

had some inkling of what he wanted to accomplish.

also the whole ordeal with the dishing out of "town points" really just seems like scum getting into a rut because they don't know what to say.

[Selkies]

but yeah i'd be pretty happy if aronis flips scum because his play in this game was really decent and i look forward to playing with him again

[Selkies]

GoodFather Day 1

jumping on the easy lynches already? that didn't take long.

Speak for yourself.

dude im town this game

And apparently an easy lynch. :/

I swear to god I

will

vote you.

This is why hydras give me migraines...

Seriously, you guys are playing achingly pro-scum so far, regardless of your actual alignment. It's basically 6 pages of meaningless clutter.

Agreed, the first 6 pages were almost entirely you three: {selkies, cabd, and mafiaSSK}. Given the sheer amount of spam, it is likely one of these three is scum, out of the three, I'd say SSK is my strongest town read because of his interactions with idiotking on page 11. Specifically post 270, in response from post 261 from idiot king. And on that note,

I get a strong town vibe from idiotking. His posts seem genuine, and his desire for justified votes is not only reasonable, its downright common sense. On a similar note, I find that ross williams has a similar post style to idiotking, I hope neither of you mind that association. I also liked his thoughts on selkies in 291.

In fact, selkies is my biggest scum read: spamming pages 1-6. Conversations between hydra heads like in the quote above, orcinus slipping and posting as himself several times, seeming to look for easy lynches, etc...

so, VOTE: Selkies

here is a tentative list of other reads:
Town:
Ross williams,
idiotking

null leaning town:
Bert
katsuki (asked some dec questions, although his initlal comment about rule 6 was more similar to my interpretation than that of others)
mafiaSSK (already talked about a bit.)

null:
muffin man (his post style really throws me off)
Four Trouble (been going back and forth on their posts. Gonna stay null til I hear more)


null leaning scum:
Cabd(overactivity first 6 pages, and then suddenly disappearing. Could just actually be sick. Could be avoiding the spotlight)
Selkies,
kabooooom and kingkenny and other lurkers
aronis (seems to be attempting to blend)


on a side note, I realize not all my null leaning scum leads are likely to be scum, but I prefer to be skeptical of people until I get a clearer town read. Its safer that way than assuming everyone is town until they act scummy.

^^ This was GF's first substantive post (aside from a post supporting katsuki's comment about the voting mechanic). The stuff I didn't like about it at the time I still don't like. There's a lot of hedge to some of these reads, and his vote choice (us) looked opportunistic both for the reasoning (including parroting complaints that other players made to get us to change our posting style and frequency, but calling it scummy) and the timing: 4th on the wagon, which pushed us over the halfway mark. It's where newbscum votes often fall, especially if the player isn't super aggressive.

Cabd(overactivity first 6 pages, and then suddenly disappearing. Could just actually be sick. Could be avoiding the spotlight)

Listen up asshole, because I'm only gonna tell you this once.

Mafia is a game. You can insult my play. You can insult my reads. You can insult my logic. But you know what you don't do? You sure as fuck don't trivialize an illness I was born with, and can cite the existence of in plenty of other places, as me abusing my honor. I get stomach acid piped up my throat daily, and I've been having that happen since the day I was born. Some days are easier, some days are harder. This past week has been a flurry of "harder" ones. Go google "Gastric reflux" and then go sit in the corner and feel like shit until you apologize.

Up until I read the last line, i was prepared to apologize.
1) I have ever played with you before, so I would have no reason or occasion to recall your illness.

2)I never said anything about your honor, but the way you responded makes me think that you have none, or more likely, thatyou are scum.


Everyones got something to bitch about in their life, the difference is not everyone uses it as a crutch. Take a tums or some fucking alka seltzer. No need to rip off my head for an observation that your activity has decreased substantially. And if you really wanted an apology, you might try in the future to be less of a dickhead

^^ This post also bugged me when it hit the thread because of how reactive it was. You can argue that Cabd was also reactive but he had the actual excuse of being ill. GF upped the ante in a way that added nothing to the game, and it stands out given his low-key play for most of the rest of the game. I find that when there's tension in a game, some scum players will look controlled and calm until they suddenly don't. This was an overreaction and I think it was a scummy overreaction.

In fact, selkies is my biggest scum read: spamming pages 1-6. Conversations between hydra heads like in the quote above, orcinus slipping and posting as himself several times, seeming to look for easy lynches, etc...

How is conversing between hydra heads scummy?

Its spam. I have never been in a hydra, but i've read that the heads of hydras can communicate with one another outside the game thread. If that is the case with you, then head to head conversations between hydra are literally spamming the thread with fluff. Scummy

How is hydra slipping scummy?

Yet again, its spam. Especially if you and your other head can talk to one another outside the thread. I don't know for sure that this is the case, but as this is my current understanding of how hydra's operate, it seems scummy to do these things. Correct me if I am wrong, and i will reconsider my read on you. @mod, can you clarify how hydras work in this game. Do they talk to one another off thread, maybe in a qt or pms, or is their only means of communication in the game thread itself?

How are we looking for easy lynches?

What is etc?

this is what I am talking about I don't know which head i'm talking to, but you may say you are looking for scum on easy lynch wagons, but you may just be looking for a convenient scapegoat to lynch dp1.

In regards to Selkies, pointing out who might be an easy lynch isn't good for the town. Even if you are town, you're giving information to uncreative scum about who would be a good target to pile on, and if enough people declare so-and-so to be an easy lynch, people are going to start seeing scum in them just because people are lazy

I'm not the head who made the observation out loud, but in many games players are familiar enough with each other to know who are likely lynchbait, who are bus-candidates if they are scum, etc. One of the places I look for scum is on the "easy lynch" wagons.

Just by the fucking way we will play our hydra how we want to play our hydra

Some hydras want to be unified. Others (like us) have two players with very distinct styles and we might not want to force ourselves into a playstyle that neither is comfortable with. That is our goddamn prerogative.

And yeah if you read any of our past games we do talk inthread a lot. We normally pull things to skype when we wanna match reads, but aside from that we sort of each do our own thing.

Also the argument that hydra slipping is scummy is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. I phone post a lot and so I don't always remind myself to switch accounts.

95% of my posts are focused on the game. The other 5% are "fluff" because I do play this game for fun. And guess what? I do have fun by having banter with fery inthread, by poking cabd. How on earth is this scum indicative?

haha, I'm not telling you how to play. That would be extremely hypocritical of me as a new member, and i don't think anything i've said can be viewed or construed as me telling you how to play. I was merely giving my reads and justifying my vote. You obviously disagree, as is your prerogative. As I've said, I am wary of hydras, and I will continue to be as long as they remain unknown to me. That may be simple minded, but i have found that skepticism is often justified in this game, especially this early in the game

Don't get me wrong, I still think you are scum, and it is not just because you are a hydra. You may have called it the stupidest thing you've seen all day, but I still think you guys unnecessarily spammed the first 1/3 of this thread. Also, I will not change my vote just because you are trying to belittle my read by saying its the stupidest thing you've heard all day. You confirmed my thought that you communicated with one another outside the thread. Just because you say you converse with one another in thread for the sake of the other players being able to differentiate between the two of you does not mean your posts are any less spam. I have gone over the first 6 pages several times now, and each time i feel more confident in this.

Add to the fact that my one vote has both hydra heads biting at me further confirms my belief that you are scum.

This is a reaction to orcinus. It looks to me like he knew that the “oooh hydra – unknown = scum” read is weak and shallow. So why not build on the case? And why not work to develop a better read. Arguably he has interacted with us more than with any other player in the game, and it's mostly because we kept up the conversation with him until he faded out during late day 1.

kinda sick and forgot about game iwll post

someday

maybe

... ... take all the time you need ...

This came after a post from him promising content of his own that he hadn't yet produced. His post wasn't delayed too long after that, but I thought it was interesting that after his “I'll catch up later post” didn't get any backwash, he jumped on Katsuki this way. This once again feels like he was using irritability that others expressed as a leaping-off-point.

I'm pretty sure it's also a proven scum meta of mine that if I'm providing concrete thoughts and cases I'm scum, so no thanks I'm not gonna do that this game haha.

so why are you an asset to the town if this is how you play? What reason should you stay in the game for. You only make conrete thoughts and cases when you're scum, so you are basically a useless townie...

Gamestate without reading the game? Damn this is gonna be a hard one.

I'd say, selkie scum is wagoned, partnerbert and selkiescum are doing all they can to get a counterwagon going but it's not working well.
Then you have a bunch of other ppl who are useless/scum. Not sure which were the ones who called me scum or a good policy lynch/jester outside of fourtrouble, but that's a really bad assessment to be making if town (who the fuck just leaves it at

"oh this jester or policy lynch is good watch me say this as I do not look for scum"

).
Actually typing this post right now I really need to go back and look (or you can do it for me <3). But yeah I at least found my scum, there are too many who aren't even scumhunting and looking for easy wagons or leaving the backdoor open

if a katsuki-wagon pops up (those are probably your selkie scumbuddies)

.

closest thing you've done that resembles scum hunting. You basically are only saying that if selkies is scum, then bert is scum too.

Oh and lets not forget you basically saying anyone who votes for me is scum. I can't ever recall hearing of a pre-meditated omgus, thats almost impressive... almost

@Katsuki, any ETA for a catchup?

Probably never. (while I'd love to say maybe, it has never happened in the 3+ yrs I've been here so)

Is this how you typically play? Not making cases, putting pressure, or even reading the thread??

How does that work out for you?

I still am suspicious of selkies, and i realize the following two things:

1 - if i am suspicious of selkies, why vote for the same person as them?
- because i have been rethinking my initial selkies read for the last few days. In that time, katsuki has done less than nothing.

2 - If i am suspicious of selkies, why am i voting for someone that is also suspicious of selkies?

- because i don't get think katsuki's read is genuine. He even admitted that he wouldn't be making concrete cases, so at best his reads are gut instinct. It feels as if he is just agreeing with what a lot of people were saying at the time, that selkies was scummy.

UNVOTE: Selkies

VOTE: Katsuki

also not a fan of bert's self-hammer threat, but i understand the tactic. I just happen to disagree with it in this case.

This vote pings for all sorts of reasons, and he obviously knew it would ping. At this point our wagon had totally collapsed, and he goes for what had to appear like low hanging fruit, even following his scum read onto the wagon. More shallow reasoning and his reason for voting Katsuki – that he had been following the crowd wrt to our wagon – was false, and actually fits his own voting behavior better than Katsuki's.

my understanding of neighborhoods is that not all members necessarily have the same affiliation.

So can the three of you really be sure of each others affiliation? I doubt that you would have outed yourselves if you were the scum team, so it is likely that 1 or more are town, but there is also no guarantee that you are all town. Is this understanding of neighborhoods correct @natirasha??

A lot of stating the obvious here, which I'd consider newbie-null in a more charitable mood.

This was his last post on day 1, iirc. He had no influence at all over the actual lynch.

Day 2 up next. It shouldn't take as long.

[Selkies]

I still like Katsuki for town.

Something to note- the wagons are tri-voting. (ie they're voting eachother in a triangle).

I like Katsuki for town.

Why was this something to note? What's the significance of this voting pattern?

[Selkies]

A SELKIE WAGON??!?

VOTE SELKIE

Could you at least explain this vote?

you stupid fucker.

That is rude, mean and utterly uncalled for. Natimodpls

is this supposed to mean that you jumped on the selkies wagon simply because she upset you by saying 'you stupid fucker'??

its like 5 am now, but i am all caught up. i am gonna try to post a list of reads tomorrow after work

i voted for katsuke yesterday, and it seems like his/her scummy behavior has not stopped with a new dp.

VOTE: Katsuki

I hope there is a better explanation for your vote other than ^ that post in reply to aronis.

Goodfather's a solid wagon, although I want to see him say something in response to the wagons. It's hard to pinpoint any of his posts as townie-looking or scumhunting.

Ffery has been extremely meh this game, which is not a good sign.

Katsuki feels like the person scum came into today wanting to mislynch - hence the rampant "OMG Katsuki is scum" comments coming out at the start of today - a darn easy mislynch too. The way Goodfather joined that wagon looked bad and unreal.

The point is most of GF's posts have been centered around "oh, this is what I understand about neighborhoods,' or "Ffery doesn't post enough in this game, therefore is scum," or "Katsuki is scum because he/she isn't scumhunting." That's what the bulk of his posts come down to, and that's not really enough for me in terms of contribution.

Vote: The Goodfather

There, I talked myself into doing something other than being lazy, and moving my vote

You liked this vote at the time. What changed?

[Selkies]

I'll talk about the first quote in that post later.

[Selkies]

What changed is you started voting him and I've thought you're scum all along.

Thought experiment. Assume for I dunno 5 minutes that I'm town or that I'm not in the game at all. Now, what's your actual opinion of GF's play?

I went off Ross after I saw you on the wagon, and switched to Aronis on D1 last minute. Then, when IK started telling me he/she thought I was trying to force a NL with a few hours left, and then notscience came in and said he preferred Ross rather than Aronis whom he had voted earlier, I caved and voted who you voted...and then Ross flipped town (surprise).

And your following me at that point when you were calling me scum and saying you'd start with your vote on me today gave me a really bad feeling about the lynch. I got over it. I don't know why you voted that way, but half the time in this game (and in other games we've played) I don't get why you're voting who you're voting, because you move your vote places that don't agree at all with your stances.

[Selkies]

And we make sense as groupscum. :/

[Selkies]

I said I think GF's scum under the condition that I assumed for a minute that you are town.

Actually no, you implied that you have a separate scum read of him, or had one.

[Selkies]

Yes, I did have a separate one on him before I developed one on you solidly. But I went away from him as a priority after seeing you push him.

Ok.

I'm going to finish my day 2 stuff and then I'm basically going to ignore you for the rest of the game day. You can make what you will of my opinion on GF.

[Selkies]

A SELKIE WAGON??!?

VOTE SELKIE

Could you at least explain this vote?

you stupid fucker.

That is rude, mean and utterly uncalled for. Natimodpls

is this supposed to mean that you jumped on the selkies wagon simply because she upset you by saying 'you stupid fucker'??

its like 5 am now, but i am all caught up. i am gonna try to post a list of reads tomorrow after work

i voted for katsuke yesterday, and it seems like his/her scummy behavior has not stopped with a new dp.

VOTE: Katsuki

I hope there is a better explanation for your vote other than ^ that post in reply to aronis.

This was his beginning stance of day 2. No comment the two competing wagons that ended in Ross' lynch at the end of the day. Nothing about the huge discussion of my meta and the NK choice. 2 flips and another wagon on us, and none of it appears to have affected his take from day 1.

His next significant post was his reads list. I asked him some questions about the list here:

So I am gonna be busy taking care of family stuff irl for the next day or two, so i thought i'd post now before i won't have a chance to. Seems like i have a wagon on me, and it seems like its nobody's fault but mine for not being particularly active this game. I don't wanna to be lynched today, so here a breakdown of how i see the game so far:

1. MafiaSSK* - 135 ( seemingly blindly accepts a case on katsuki), 166 (another blind acceptance of a selkies lynch), 231 (gets convinced by selkies of a muffin lynch) 236 and 914 (defends aronis the first time, then jumps on the lynch)

over 100 plus posts with almost no content, multiple vote shifts with little to no justification except for blindly accepting other arguments. 270 is the only semblance of scumhunting

SSK is one of my scum reads

2. Cabd - town; seems to be scumhunting in earnest

3. Selkies(fferyllt+orcinus_theoriginal) - null; not sure about selkies. Still adjusting to hydras

4. zMuffinMan - null leaning town; his playstyle is very foreign to me, a lot of his posts lack justification, but it seems as if he reserves his reasoning for posts like 590. out of the three in the neighborhood, he is 2nd most likely to be town imo (after IK and before aronis)

6. notscience King Kenny - null leaning town; this read is a lot my read on bert. Their posts, also kinda like nachos are more conversational than i am used to. i am also thrown off by the whole in thread qt thing they have going on.

7. The Goodfather** - town

8. Nachomamma8 kabooooom - like bert and NS, i am getting a mostly null vibe, but i am leaning scum just because that was how i read his slot while kaboooom was playing.

9. Bert Karlos4 - same as not science, null leaning town

11. Aronis** - scum (most likely scum in the neighborhood). He has changed his votes almost 10 times, altogether voting for 6 or 7 different people, with little to no reasoning each time. seems to just hop on whatever wagon is convenient

12. Idiotking* - like his playstyle, and i think he is the most likely town in the neighborhood

13. Katsuki* - scum - seems to be trying to skate by without doing anything. Maybe his meta, but if this is his town game, he is not an asset to our game at all

those are my thoughts.

I am gonna try to post more in the next couple of days, but i may be busy.

How did you develop a read on kaboooom?

What's the basis for your pushing us to scum to null? You haven't changed the reasoning at all from what I can tell.

What's the basis for your notsci town lean? You've described stuff about his style of play, but there's nothing about what's alignment indicative to it. And how the hell can you characterize bert's play as similar to notsci's in any meaningful way?

They reason why I asked about his kaboooom read is because he's scumreading Nacho on the basis of having developed a scum read on kaboooom.


I want to know where in this:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

he found the data to develop a scum read, especially since his other reads have been so influenced by other players' irritabilities.

The other two reads I asked about, I don't want to say why at this time.

I agree with the ssk lynch. I said so in my post post 1297

It also looks like my vote on katsuki is not doing much. A lot of people have said they would policy lynch katsuki, but no one has acted on it

UNVOTE: katsuki

VOTE: SSK

In this post, he gives up on the katsuki wagon. He's acknowledging most of the lynch sentiment there was policy, but he said he was reading katsuki as scum. The easy flip here to another scum read feels off, mostly because if he genuinely thought Katsuki was scum, "oh well, policy lynch not happening is a bad reason to drop the push.

i'm willing to say that you shouldn't replace out either even tho you have a scum read on me. I just want people to be participative and actively giving reads and justification. I am still new to this game so im sure I can only do so much, but it sounds like you could be a great asset to the town if you wanted to be.

And here it looks like the scum read has completely disappeared. He's unvoted SSK, and now the question is where to next?

with aronis' vote on selkies, both he and selkies are l-3. We've got like 3 days to figure out what to do this dp. If we can't decide by then nati will take a random shot to figure out who is lynched.

As of now bert, both nacho's vote for IK and ffery/selkies vote on me are not accomplishing anything.

I am inclined to say that SSK should targeted by the cop tonight. Ideally it would be a rolecop so we can verify his claim without having to kill him in case he is not bs with his claim

Assumption of a cop could be knowledge-based, but it could also be that wherever he plays elsewhere utilizes cop roles extensively. I've played games on sites where a cop (and a godfather) were basically givens in most games.

why are you confident in GF as scum, ffery

what has he done, and why havent you pushed that case if you believe enough to recommend he be vigged

You guys were lynching me without orcinus around to make his case for Aronis or IK. If we are getting lynched today I hope you'll give us both time to post well formed last thoughts.

doesn't look like you're gonna die today. Why not answer berts question? I would like you to elaborate on your read on me as well selkies/ffery/orc whoever i am talking to

And as I mentioned earlier, this post, asking for my read and ending it with a "whoever I'm talking to" felt discrediting.

[Selkies]

You guys keep criticizing my reads because they are largely based on analyzing playstyle... maybe that is a valid reason to criticize reads for experienced players like you who have played with one another. i am not only new to the site i am new to mafia as a game. less than 2 months playing. I have no meta knowledge of any of you, so I'm not sure what else i should be basing my reads on. Playstyle incorporates many aspects of the game: number of posts, content of posts, voting analysis, reads lists, cases made, etc.

I am also even unfamiliar with roles in this game, so i have had no experience with hydras or neighborhoods in any of my experience. I apologize if that takes some getting used to.

I have been playing 5 games since i joined, and i had to drop out of one of them because i was unable to keep up with the thread and i let that game slip. I'm sorry if my posts lead you all to believe i'm scum, but i have been trying to contribute. I will endeavor to do more. Thats all i can promise right now.

When you're back, please explain from your post 1297

- how you got a scum read off kaboooom's posts (here's his ISO: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go)

- your notsci read

- your read of me.

[Selkies]

why are there so many long posts :<

i think i read somewhere selkies (maybe?) saying something about aronis being too aggressive to be scum or something.

this is one of the only reasons i'm hesitant to vote him atm. coz like, everything else he's doing makes me think scum.

also don't really think that all three of {selkies, nacho, aronis} are town

ffery-head said that. orcinus wanted to vote Aronis.

[Selkies]

This is you abdicating responsibility for your vote

do you think ns is scum? or...?

I think the post looked pretty scummy. Overall, since the replace-in and day 1 scrambles, he's been pretty quiet. The post was one of the few where he even mentioned me. There was another where he added me as a "maybe" to his scumpile IIRC.

[Selkies]

He may be right but the bluster and aggressiveness looks newbtown to me.

this is the quote i remember skimming over earlier. thing is, some of the more recent things he said in the neighbourhood (prior to him saying he wasn't going to post there anymore) came off as rather indignant - like he thought he had a point and was in the right. he was talking about how it's only the neighbours who see him as scum and he thinks i'm being contradictory by pointing out that although he upped his activity today a lot of the shit he's writing is fluff that is useless for getting a read on him <- he never fully elaborated on how this makes any sense but whatever

i'm also trying to figure out whether or not it's likely he'd vote nacho at the end of D1 instead of voting ross for survival reasons. meh. not a strong point here but i'm thinking about what happened at the end of yesterday and that stuck out as weird.

I really do think nacho's town.

why?

gut. :/

I dunno. I've been terrible at reading him. In fact, touhou and marketplace suggest that when you two are both on the same scum team, my reads of both of you are terrible.

also i would like to see your answers to the questions cabd asked in the spoiler. i see no pro-town reason for avoiding those questions

You're apparently not alone.

[Selkies]

there are certain things that goodfather has done that i think look town but i really can't be bothered going over his iso atm

If you ignore my read after I flip town, I will have issues. Unless you're the scum in the neighborhood, but I kinda doubt that.

are we mass claiming?

If my lynch is set in stone I don't think anyone else should claim today.

[Selkies]

Unless you're the scum in the neighborhood, but I kinda doubt that.

why even say this then?

coz i don't care about dead people reads except in-so-far-as i can see their logic and i agree with it (which i clearly don't)

So you don't consider the confirmed townness of a dead player's reads?

[Selkies]

besides, if cabd viges him then why does it matter what i think?

so again, why even say that?

That's an IF.

But, I think your first reply was enough, and will be something to remember/check.

[Selkies]

inorite? Who would make a joke like that?

can't teach the dumb new tricks, muffin
sorry

that's ok i wasn't planning to read anything you wrote to me anyway

have you got a read on me, yet? i'm so town even my shit is green. i went to a doctor and he was like, "nah dw about it, you're just really town!"

[Selkies]

Also claimed vt and wagon analysis tomorrow would be very interesting regardless of alignment

You're interested in tomorrow's wagon analysis, but not in the least about actually reading us today, or picking our brains for tomorrow.

I don't think you're scum given Katsuki's ragequit. Though after reading you as town on the basis of the player you replaced recently I should probably think more carefully. If you're town, you're incredibly lazy and shortsighted.

[Selkies]

notsci if you're deferring to Cabd why is your vote on me?

[Selkies]

VOTE: Selkies

My initial and continuing scum read. I'm not sure why 2 days is a very little amount of time ssk, when i started playing around christmas it was on a site with 24 hour phases. 2 days seems like a lot of time. I do agree that this dp shouldn't go to random lynch if we haven't reached a majority, but my vote is mostly based on my persistently scummy (although one time null) read on selkies.

Kindly stop ignoring my question about your Kabooom scum read.

[Selkies]

This is me not hammering. That means Im confirmed town, right? Good.

nope not conf town.
Prob town yes.


I'm gonna hammer soon

While making no actual effort to sort us.

[Selkies]

Scum is within {Aronis or IK,

Selkies

, Nacho, goodfather}

Sorted.

That's not sorting. No interaction, no question, nothing from you. We'd have made ZERO posts at each other if I hadn't pushed you.

[Selkies]

And these 6 posts gave you enough of a gut scum impression that it's still impacting your Nacho read.

Please elaborate on what in those posts bothers your gut.

Spoiler: kaboom's scummy ISO

/confirm!

Haven't detailed in anyone yet! But quick iso gives me a feeling that cabd or selkies are not town!
for now,

vote:selkies

i don't like hydras anyway!

bert is scum

he hasn't done anything completely antitown, he hasn't self-voted and he hasn't asked to be lynched

Is this a joke or something from meta? Because I don't understand.

FourTrouble. Thanks for finally explaining your vote, but I think your preoccupied with how I play. Some people throw votes and pressure around and use that to find scum, I tend to think out loud and see what people respond to and see how they interact with eachother. You can call it cautious or unagressive, but in my opinion you're more likely to find scum in someone who is trying too hard or being ingenuine. There's no room for townies to be deceptive. And if I was going after easy lynches, I'd be campaigning hard against some who would have a hard time defending himself, this game has a couple. My vote isn't on anyone yet and it'll stay that way until I have more to go on. I'm interested in King Kenny and Kaboooom because I don't have anything on them right now, and I want to compare them to the people who are currently topping my scum list

this isn't unexpected!
actually i m a pretty active player and post pretty often! But i m not being able to follow you guys! And those spams in the starting are really irritating! All what happens in the start is RVS fight and fight,over rules! I haven't read this game with full attention then after. I gave a quick look at iso of all players and selkies and cabd looked more suspicious! As selkies was a hydra and she had more votes, I thought of sheeping her, as if she is scum she will scum slip and if she is not, then the scums would go for hammer. If she seems town even under pressure then go for one of the most suspicious sheeped vote and pressure that player. If that player is scum, he ir she may scum slip. Either way, at this stage of game, i will leave scum hunting to you all.

Prod precautious.

I know I havent contributed anything but I dont have internet access in my phone. Hopefully it will be fixed in a day or two. Otherwise I will self hammer myself. I know how irritating it is when someone ruins the game.

Oh! Sorry.

[Selkies]

no, kaboooms read and nacho's read are both based solely on their individual play.

That's not what you said in your reads list.

8. Nachomamma8 kabooooom - like bert and NS, i am getting a mostly null vibe, but i am leaning scum just because that was how i read his slot while kaboooom was playing.

[Selkies]

SSK has looked more townie to me than GF has.

[Selkies]

really? coz last i checked you had ssk as town for one post and you were saying to nacho that his later play looking scummy was countered solely by that one post?

Orcinus thought he looked scummy. I put our vote on GF near the start of day 2 and didn't take up Nacho's SSK wagon, though I did give it some thought.

[Selkies]

really feeling

cooking and posting don't mix.

[Selkies]

Why are they more scum than you?

who asks this?

if you were looking for his case on us, he literally just gave it, in its glorious entirety, 3 posts ago

but yes, i'm absolutely fine with lynching between ssk/aronis/GF today.

cabd, fery basically wants your babies because they glisten with so much town. i told fery this yesterday, but we are fine with being part of the vig-pool tonight. don't announce your target--scum RB. but i'm assuming you ran that through your head when you claimed to start with.

[Selkies]

Selkies was seemingly taking advantage of an apathetic town.

holy shit

bert bitches at us for not leading town like we should be

you bitch at us for it

make up your mind goddamn

[Selkies]

its called bussing.... dur


I just don't like the way your wagon dissipated yesterday and your play seems nothing like

your super obv town posting in red wine mafia

.
I strongly suspect you are scum but if you aren't at least your lynch will be quite informative.
Some of your posts seem off. 1946 for example.
Also if you are town goodfather (another scum read of mine) will likely bite a bullet.

I was not super obvtown in red wine because of my posting. I was town because I got wagoned on day 1 and was in the lead for lynch. And by the end of day 2, we all knew two dead scum had been on my wagon. I was no threat to you guys even as town semi-confirmed by a scum-pushed wagon because my reads sucked and I wasn't making course corrections. I certainly wasn't leading town that game.

You were scum in that game, so you knew every stance I took was a town stance. Several town players retained doubts about me. Including Cabd iirc.

[Selkies]

i just realised you never claimed a n1 protect

You're never going to guess.
Alright, I'll tell you.
Selkies. Because, ffery.

terminal hives. Why didn't you protect Cabd? He was dropping megaton crumbs.

[Selkies]

i just realised you never claimed a n1 protect

You're never going to guess.
Alright, I'll tell you.
Selkies. Because, ffery.

terminal hives. Why didn't you protect Cabd? He wass dropping megaton crumbs.

How do you not know this about me yet? Me and crumbs=no. I can't drop them. I can't pick them up.

I think you've said it twice in this game, but I haven't noticed lack of crumb awareness in our other games.

[Selkies]

Actually in the AA game you crumbed your fake claim character.

[Selkies]

Your crumb:

I'll claim after geists claim their role. But man, my feet are sticky.

Your fake claim:

I'll claim after geists claim their role. But man, my feet are sticky.

Step it up, SSK-dono.

We're VT. That line up with what you got?

Yup. I'm Dick Gumshoe, tracker, tracked you just in case, and got that you guys didn't visit no one.

[Selkies]

fery and I are here, not hammering

[Selkies]

yet (last message sent early)

cabd you here?

[Selkies]

*facepalm* I was looking at our wagon, thought you had 4 votes before guyett