Mini 1501: We're On A Boat! (END?! results inside)

[Grimgroove]

Hi everyone. Will try to be caught up today, but no promises.

[Grimgroove]

@mod

: Is it possible to get a deadline extension? I don't think 4 days will cut it for me, lots of walls inhere.

[Grimgroove]

Not sure how to feel about miller claim.

Seen it legit before; seen it used as a scum gambit before.

Yup.

Miller claims are absolutely null and wifom.

The fuck they are.

Kazekirimaru is probably scum. Only need two pages to figure that out.
Brian is town. Doesn't feel like a tactic scum would adopt right from the very start. WIFOM all you want but it is just far more logical and probable Brian is telling the truth.

[Grimgroove]

Liking fferyllt on page 2.

[Grimgroove]

Lynch all D1 miller claims.

vote: Brian Skies

Hmm.... not much explanation for the vote, this vote was after the claim, so I'd say that's what its for. Seems Legit.

hm.

VOTE: Brian

Quite the insightful read! very thorough thought process. Seems legit.

Claiming Miller. And saying "vote me out first".

Gives actual reasoning, must be a scumbag, obviously.


So, the question is, what makes me so special?

@aeronaut: The difference is that notscience made the vote after clearly participating in the discussion. You made your vote upon your entrance.

Yea?

The fact that an RVS wagon got formed on Brian before his claim seems entirely too coincidental, and the way he expressed his claim doesn't help alleviate that suspicion. But I like this wagon more:

Vote: Aeronaut

This is an entrance vote as well. ^

Sorry, didn't mean to rain on your logic, guess I didn't see it there since it doesn't exist.

Aeronaut mainly pointing to others when defending himself.
"They're doing it too.", twice in a row.

Scummy. Instead of explaining his own motivations, he's pointing at others to do it for him.

[Grimgroove]

You guys should re-read the first three pages.
Kazkirimaru is obvscum as far as I can tell. But nobody seems to notice him.

[Grimgroove]

Liking SoyreX on page 4, still liking fferyllt.

[Grimgroove]

Lulz. How do you bork up like that on accident?

HE DID IT ON PURPOSE! HE BORKED IT UP ON PURPOSE!!! THAT DEVIOUS DEVIL!!!! WHAT COULD HE BE UP TO?????

Such a ridiculous beginning of an argument. Truly.
why u not see? -_-
Why u not ask more question to Rikiscum-san? -_-
Whya you succka da duck?????

(That last one was Italian!)

[Grimgroove]

If Kazekirimaru is not scum I'll eat the print-out of this topic!!
A4 size.
Printed back to back (the environment).
Slide show-print, obviously (the environment, you know)
The ammount of slides per page pending on hunger at the time.


LOLLLL!

But I'll do it! I'll eat a piece of paper if Kazekirimaru is not scum!

[Grimgroove]

I'm not sure I should do the rest of my catch-up under these circumstances. I'll be back later. This is not the place to fluff. Too many pages already, Grim! No use in giving yourself more post to catch-up on. Noooooooooh sirreh.

That last word also counted as an apology (expressed by a retarded child who would pronounce said apologetic word in that peculiar way)

[Grimgroove]

"Shjeriew" would be another way of expressing it retardedly.

[Grimgroove]

You guys should re-read the first three pages.
Kazkirimaru is obvscum as far as I can tell. But nobody seems to notice him.

Y U SO SZERIOUS? LIGHTEN UP MOTHAFCKAAH! This is a game!

[Grimgroove]

(this is me talking to myself. This is not a hydra-account!! I suddenly envisaged myself in some heavenly prison (being it's in the clouds, other than that there's nothing heavenly about it, let me assure you) after beingt somehow mistaken to be a hydra account and possibly inadvertently having, wait that makes no sense. SOOOWWWY)

Please don't send me to that jail!!! Don't let the pink skies fool you, that prison is HELL!!!! It's so cold

[Grimgroove]

Liking fferyllt on page 2.

Smoooth dawg. Real smooth, proud o' ya!

[Grimgroove]

Hi Grimgroove.

You're coming off a lot less srsbznz than the last time we played.

I love you.

I must admit I may have taken a less serious stance so far. This is for un-game related reasons.

I'm really not very sure how to embark on this catch-up in a sensible way, it's so difficult. I'm probably talking about ancient history for you guys. A boring old history teacher

So I decided to have some fun first. And then some fun here. I'll be serious again later. Promise!

I'll probably say seuwjie in a very stand-up citizen like way.

(not saying that retarded children cannot be stand-up citizens as well. They MOST CERTAINLY can!)

[Grimgroove]

Stand-up comedians?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
They're citizens too aren't they?
IT4S A JOKE THAT WORKS; aND i JUST MADE IT UP; HAHAHAHA

[Grimgroove]

That sit's gonna go viral! I should trademark it.

[Grimgroove]

No disrespect to those retarded children that don't manage to stand up.

It's not as easy as it seems people!!

[Grimgroove]

Damn new page Dayyum

[Grimgroove]

Can we please feed Grimgroove rope?

Scum #2.

Want me to die before I get a word in huh? I'll keep an eye on you.

Thank you for your kind of advice to whoever it was that gave me kind advice. Very kind of you. Kind of. Also a bit mean.

[Grimgroove]

Fine, buzzkill. I'll stop and give you a townread for free. This is the stress due to hunting for scum speaking.
Scum would behave differently in stressfull situations. More jolly.

[Grimgroove]

My apologies.
Reading up further now.
But my reads still stand.

[Grimgroove]

Not sure how to feel about miller claim.

Seen it legit before; seen it used as a scum gambit before.

Yup.

Miller claims are absolutely null and wifom.

The fuck they are.

You express yourself rather unsure about the miller claim, but yet are so adamant about them not being null tells in your next post. Then surely you have more of an opinion on the miller claim besides 'I dunno,' especially with the potential of the growing wagon.

Idk about HIS miller claim. But miller claims in general are not null. Apples and oranges.

I'm pretty alright with the aeronaut vote right meow

Unvote

VOTE: Aeronaut

Bad excuses are bad and you should feel bad.

We got a live one, here.

To be honest I'm really not certain how to undertake this catch-up. I'm in it for fun and browsing through 25 pages and taking miticulous notes on everyone simply isn't going to happen. Normally I like to be precise in communication but it would be too tedious to cover all those pages in my usual style.

Given the pressure that's apparently on my slot, I doubt a summary of reads on people will convince you, but I don't see any other way of doing this. The fact the pressure is coming from fferyllt I'm not automatically assuming this is scumlead given my townread on her, so I guess there are sincere concerns, which will probably will need to be aleviated by yours truly.

Later I'll get into the existing case on my slot, as far as I'll be able to because it's quite difficult to talk for someone else.

The spamming stops now. I was not entirely myself and I'm sorry for having been an annoyance. It all seemed very funny at the time.

[Grimgroove]

Beh, those Kazeki quotes aren't meant to be there, a remnant of me "plussing" those quotes earlier.

[Grimgroove]

I feel a bit silly after yesterday.
But

@mod

: I'm repeating my request for a deadline extension, as that was not drugs-induced. Of two days maybe? Don't know if this is alright for others, but I'd like to get my head properly in this game. Tomorrow is looking good for a complete read-through.

[Grimgroove]

Reading up now. I figured out how to do this. I wrote down all of your names on a piece of paper, and will now read through the topic. If I read posts of yours that make me think something about you, I'll write down what it is I think. And then I'll compile those thoughts in a summary of 1 or 2 lines, which will be the output you'll see.
I won't be making any references to specific posts, too tedious and given there will be no extension time is money. But I'll try to put a vote down and you'll get my promise/guarantee it will be a thought-out one.
After that catch-up, consider me in the game and feel free to interact with me directly, based on my reads or with questions that seem pertinent to you.

[Grimgroove]

So I reached page 6. What I got so far:


Main topics were:

The Miller Claim

First off: I believe it. Post 18 I was almost sold, but then fferyllt's 36 sealed the deal for me. I find a gambit highly unlikely.
When it comes to the reactions to this claim:
I liked: fferyllt, notscience, ChannelDeliBird, Spyrex, CrashTextDummy (even though several people voiced different opinions on the matter, the way they put forward arguments sounded town-intentioned)
I disliked: Aeronaut, Kazekirimaru

Aeronaut's vote on Brian and his tone

I agreed with it being quite scummy, both tone and the vote.
I liked fferyllt's response to it and the way she probed Aeronaut.
I didn't like Kazekirimaru's initial push on the matter, especially because he was focussing on technicalities like Aeronaut making some mistake by quoting the wrong post.
I did not like Smudger's reaction to it.

General notes on players so far:

Liking both SpyreX and fferyllt as obvious town, already after 6 pages. The 133 and 135 really made me sorry I wasn't there at the time. Would love to become part of their town-affair and form some kind of love-triangle. I had the EXACT same thoughts as fferyllt in 133 when reading that discussion, and had the EXACT same feelings as Spyrex in 135. Beautiful.

Which brings me to both Garmr and notscience. both read like town to me. Garms I had written down "well-intentioned newbie". notscience is living up to the town-meta I think I know of him, a bit self-involved but I liked his moderate reaction to Garmr's case.

ChannelDeliBird always looks cranky. At least in the beginning of the game, but also while I was posting high. Somehow, I can't match "crankiness" with scum. You can say it's an emotion that's a null-tell, but I just can't wrap my head around cranky scum. His doubts surrounding the miller-claim seemed very pro-town and the way he talked himself out of policy lynching a miller felt very genuine.

Aeronaut, not liking his opportunistic vote on Brian. During the fallout of that, his defense was focussed on pointing at others ("they're doing the same") and on technicalities. Not feeling good about that slot, saw he replaced out but didn't see anything from SleepyKrew yet.

CrashTextDummie read very opportunistic to me at first, both by asking for more rope for me while I was how I was, and by taking such a strong stance on "lynch all millers". But after reading his explanation on why he thought millers should be lynched, I ciould see town motivations shine through it. I like how he found the inconsistency between the Wiki and what Brian was saying. It's something you'd only be looking for as town thinking you can catch scum.

Smudger (now Lolwagons) is my biggest scumread so far. His posts are off the beaten track, but without really leading us anywhere.
On top of that he stalls ongoing debates by questioning what normally should not be questioned from a Town PoV, namely their (the ongoing discussions') use. Not constructive at all.

Plum wasn't participating in the game yet by page 6.

Maestro was neither, I was genuinely surprised when I saw his "waaaaat"-post. Felt like a post of some out-of-game-observer.

Brian Skies: I believe his claim and I said why. Not much to add to that.

Kazekirimaru (Peabody): Not as sold on him being scum anymore. While I did not like his reaction to the miller claim (contradictory) and to Aeronaut's vote (opportunistic), the top of page 5 was a game-changer for me. There he really took clear stances for clear reasons, looking all the better for it. Maybe I should get ready putting that A4-paper in some blender.

More later. But already quite some townreads to show for only 6 pages

[Grimgroove]

My lynchpool for this daystage will be, partially based on PoE, in order of current preference:

Lolwagons, SleepyKrew (apart from what was mentioned above about thier predecessors, not liking their interaction (Lolwagons still being Smudger at the time) at the second half of page 7/page 8, maybe it's confbias talking but this reads like a play between two scum, where one can play "Mr. Why U Townread Me?", which always scores with the ladies, and the other one can come out unscathed because his fluffy interrogator allows him to)
Plum (bad gut feeling after his big entry-post)
Empire (still no read at this point, so he still is an option)

And I'm extremely surprised only one of them currently has a vote on him.

Still reading-up, but I feel strongly enough about it to already express my intentions in this regard.

[Grimgroove]

SleepyKrew' interactions starting from page 7 read like a protracted effort to appease, but not at all genuine.

VOTE: SleepyKrew

I already know I'll want exchanges with this person.

[Grimgroove]

@mod

Can we see sample Miller, Mafia Goon and Serial Killer Role PMs?
No clue if that's actually allowed

Nice try

, but no lol

Hmmm.
Not sure if I should do this, but this does read like a mod-town-interaction.
Hrm. But the request itself by sleepyKrew is scummy. There was simply no way of getting those samples from the mod. Asking it feels like it's more for show than for result.
Continuing catch-up.

[Grimgroove]

Suddenly, I'm starting to wonder about Brian Skies.

While fferyllt made a good point about a newer player not enetering a game with a gambit like that, I suddenly wonder: Is he a newer player?

Remember the inconsistency between the Wiki-page on Miller-claims and Brian's explanation of why he did it and what he was thinking when doing it.

He said he read the wiki-page, but CarshTextDummie gave reasons to believe he didn't: the thing Brian was referring to was not formulated in the Wiki in the way Brian formulated.

If Brian was speaking out of experience, rather than out of wiki-reading, it means he's not a new player at all, but faking to be one.

The reason I ask this is because I had a painful experience with someone faking to be a newbie and coasting through the entire game with it. (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29135, SunnyDays pretended to be a newbie but wasn't)

I want reassurance that Brian Skies is effectively a newbie. I'm putting my strong townread on him on hold until that time.

Regardless of these reservations I don't think Brian Skies should be lynched today. The way I understand it once a Miller-claim has occured, there's a form of natural selection that transpires, sparing us from having to do heavy-thinking.

[Grimgroove]

(and my two main scumreads being on his wagon also helps in my leniency)

[Grimgroove]

Don't have much time left and won't be online anymore, but to already address one point: you're putting my townread on CrashTextDummy into question, right?

I don't think it's something scum would do, no, going to look at a Wiki-page to find an inconsistency.
Why? Because scum wouldn't expect even in the slightest to find one. So why bother?

That's where my townread on CTD differs with CDB's reason for townreading notscience: CTD showed genuine town-motivated activity.

notscience did not show activity, only the motivation.

That being said, I also think notscience is town.

You seem awfully preoccupied with questioning townreads, SleepyKrew? Getting too cramped for you?

[Grimgroove]

grimgroove, your read of me is so different in this game from our one prior. I'd expect a course correction of sorts, but 1) my play in this game is quite different and 2) it's a really huge course correction.

I don't judge based on meta. You act like town here and that's all that I manage to take into account.

[Grimgroove]

You're addressing the wrong part. Do you think checking the wiki is something specifically

CTD

hasn't doesn't wouldn't do as scum?

Yes this one vote on me with no support from anyone else makes me really nervous
I'm def not questioning townreads that I think have been explained with questionable reasons
That's too high level for me

I don't know who CTD specifically is, but I don't see why anyone would check a wiki-page without being able to expect to find something like a contradiction. Scum would not expect to find anything, so would not go looking. CTD went looking so isn't scum. It's really not that difficult and has got nothing to do with the person CTD.

Not my vote on you is maknig you nervous, it's the amount of townreads going on inhere. You try to discredit them in hopes of opening up the lynchpool, keeping your options to mislynch open. Is that too high-level thinking for you?

[Grimgroove]

And about my style being obnoxious I only have one thing to say: fuck you.

I'll approach this game as I damn well please. You think it's scummy? Vote me for it. You think it's obnoxious: shut the fuck up and put yourself in my shoes.

You didn't have opinions after ten pages? You were in a vacuum of thoughts, simply thrudging along until you reached page 20?

Of course I have opinions and ideas after reading through 10 pages, so did all of you. And I see no reason at all why opinions obtained after 10 pages are worth less. I'm taking the same course you all did and I'm jotting down the thoughts that go with it.

So yes CTD, you can swallow your advice, get off your high-horse and take my reads seriously. Actually READ what I have to say about people, instead of just dismissing everything just because it somehow doesn't fit your way of "catching up". I cannot do one big read-through and summarize conclusions. It is tedious and boring. Taking this thing page by page and commenting on it in such a way feels much more participatory for me.

If I want to read 35 pafges and write a summary about it I'll go back to highschool and ask for a reading assignment.

Plum has a booboo cuz I don't townread him apparently Funny how you would say I'm appeasing when that's the exact thing I didn't do with you.

[Grimgroove]

While fferyllt made a good point about a newer player not enetering a game with a gambit like that, I suddenly wonder: Is he a newer player?

I asked Brian about his mafia experience in the first game I played with him. His answer is here.

That's reassuring enough.

[Grimgroove]

A single post by Kaze was "game-changing" enough for you to reverse an "obvscum" read. 4 pages later, you're confident enough to narrow the scum down to 4 people. I'm finding it very hard to take your reads seriously.

Single posts can be game-changers, yes. Remember that my obvscum-read on Kaze came into existence under circumstances of overestimation of my skills. What Kaze has shown on the top of page 5 completely conflicted with what I thought of him, and was a game-changer. Sorry to hear you don't like it. And even more sorry to hear your reads apparently don't change. Sounds like I'm in a pickle!

Suddenly, I'm starting to wonder about Brian Skies.

You were "almost sold" by his ISO #3 and Fferyllt doubting whether a new player would make such a gambit "sealed the deal". You are now questioning whether he's a new player, which I can see "unsealing the deal", but I don't see how it affects the basis of your alleged read. Please explain your thought process.

My thought process has already been clarified, but I'll humour you:
1. Brian Skies claims Miller : I'm not sure what to think.
2. Brian Skies explains why he claimes Miller: I see his point and thus an argument in favor of believing him.
3. fferyllt says the odds of a new player starting with a gambit like that are very low: I agree with this and thus secure my townread, without putting into question that Brian is indeed a newer player.

Some time passes.

I don't know why, I don't know how, but suddenly I am reminded of the game I linked you to earlier, where someone pretended to be a newbie, made an idiotic claim when he replaced into the game which was either A. a retarded scumclaim, B. an understandable mistake to make for a newbie. Given his newbishness and the general sense he was portraying, we went for option B and never questioned it. He won as scum, and admitted to having played the part of a stupid newbie in order to get out of that pickle.

This dark memory had a certain parallel, where someone being new was read as town, with a big part due to his newbishness. Hence my wonderment.

To be honest I'm really not certain how to undertake this catch-up. I'm in it for fun and browsing through 25 pages and taking miticulous notes on everyone simply isn't going to happen. Normally I like to be precise in communication but it would be too tedious to cover all those pages in my usual style.

What about this game is giving you trouble exactly? This is not a particularly strenuous game to replace into, there's more than plenty of one- and two-line posts to balance out the modest walls.

1. I am not a machine.
2. I want to have fun. (an important rule in the game, if I recall correctly)

The manner in which you've elected to structure your analysis strikes me as dubious. You're moving through the game at a snail's pace, all the while insisting on a deadline extension. I get portioning a read-through upon replacing in, but not in a game of this size. Meticulously giving reads after having read 6 pages of a 30 page game is completely over the top. It screams "look at how comprehensive my thought process is!".

There is very little pro-town benefit to most of what you've contributed so far, because you've demonstrated twice now that even your most strongly worded reads are far from solid.

The only real benefit to your manner of posting is that it tends to garner town reads, providing strong scum motivation to do so. I've used similar tactics as scum in the past and it works remarkably well (and is easy to pull off to boot).

If you are town, you need to stop what you're doing, spend an hour and a half reading the full game and

then

give your reads.

I resent the first part of that which is bolded. My entrance was not up to certain standards, but what I offered was definitely pro-town. If not the reads, then at least the arguments I provided for them. Instead of putting over a blanket over them by this general criticism based on how YOU would play as scum, I would have appreciated a more detailed response that what it was I said.
And the second part you're not being very fair here. The Kaze-read should not be taken into account as you know full-well what the circumstances of that read were, and the doubts I had surrounding Brian never involved a sudden review, just an on-hold for reasons I believe are pretty understandable.

You've got your big head into a tunnel and I fear it's too big to get out of it again. I'll try to find some lubricant but no promises.

[Grimgroove]

Okay quick look at his ISO (lol) and yeah you're right. Didn't think about it that way. Carry on.

*sigh*
Maybe read his ISO before critisizing people who voted him?

This post exemplifies what I think of SleepyKrew's entrance: he critisizes, questions everything, but what does he do? Is there any factual backing to his criticism? And when questioned himself always chooses for the "attack is the best defense"-adagio. He never allows the discussion to revolve around his behavior. He's busy kicking the sand under his feet, all around him, until we can't see him anymore.

[Grimgroove]

FYI he was scum in that game.

Meaning he could have been lying about his newbishness there, as well as here?
Anyway, like has been said before, it will sort itself out. I think there's people who are scummy enough in order to warrant a normal lynch, instead of having to resort to policy-lynching a miller now. That stuff will sort itself out eventually.

[Grimgroove]

Is anyone even voting him currently that he's still inundated with minutinae of defense and clearing up stuff?

It's the second time I see you mention that, as you already used it against me.
What is your problem with minutinae? Why is it scummy to approach the game in such a way? You realize we're talking playstyle here, right?

[Grimgroove]

No need to make a compromise policy lynch sound like something you thought through.

[Grimgroove]

As I reviewed his iso, I wanted to lynch him,

Why?

If it helps, I withdraw my assertion that I will eat paper. This wasn't meant to have any effect on the game (if I recall correctly these things are even against the rules, real-life wagers and stuff like that).

There is no way I will be eating any paper.

[Grimgroove]

Okay quick look at his ISO (lol) and yeah you're right. Didn't think about it that way. Carry on.

*sigh*
Maybe read his ISO before critisizing people who voted him?

This post exemplifies what I think of SleepyKrew's entrance: he critisizes, questions everything, but what does he do? Is there any factual backing to his criticism? And when questioned himself always chooses for the "attack is the best defense"-adagio. He never allows the discussion to revolve around his behavior. He's busy kicking the sand under his feet, all around him, until we can't see him anymore.

What the hell is that first line
That is bullshit condescending "advice" because you're pretending all the Maestro votes were as thought out as ffery's when clearly they weren't. Yeah my criticism of her vote was bad, that's why I dropped it. Do you think my criticism of the other Maestro votes was bad too? How come I didn't drop that?
Please show me multiple examples of me being questioned and replying as you described
How am I stopping discussion about myself? Examples?

Yes, your criticism of the other Maestro votes was bad too, as they were based on the same posts you find in that eye-opening ISO.
It's not bullshit condescending advice. It's me calling you scum for not having even checked what MAestro had said but instead decided to go around showing everyone how "critical" you are. Always there with the "why's" but you haven't even bothered figuring out the "what's". Because you don't need to. you know what's what because you're scum.

And it's a thing that's difficult to get through examples. People should do as I did (and as notscience is doing) and simply re-read the topic. Somehow it gives you a certain perspective and a certain feel of things. I'm quite positive everyone re-reading the thread will end up voting you.

Too bad there's only a day left, guess your free lynch is served and it's called "Brian à la façon du Scum".

[Grimgroove]

Yes, your criticism of the other Maestro votes was bad too, as they were based on the same posts you find in that eye-opening ISO.

No they weren't
They were lolpressure look at us we're useful
Clearly not the same as ffery's

And it's a thing that's difficult to get through examples. People should do as I did (and as notscience is doing) and simply re-read the topic. Somehow it gives you a certain perspective and a certain feel of things. I'm quite positive everyone re-reading the thread will end up voting you.

Oh no proof okay then

OMG U WIN

I'll just sit back and see how this Day plays out. I'm not in a position to change a course that's been taken during a period of 35 pages, and I don't feel like bothering right now anyway. Possibly toMorrow. No reason to believe both of us won't be there to see that happen.

For now I'm hoping the question marks I've raised around you will move other people to try and see what I see. It's not that difficult to see it, really. Sometimes it's better to let posts and iso's speak for themselves. Right now I see more merit in pointing people where to look.

Town just has to be able to do better than a policy lynch on a miller claim of someone who appears to be MiA after all this time. My hopes are vested on this idea.

[Grimgroove]

Lolwagons reads much more town than his predecessor.

I don't understand why none of you contemplate a SleepyKrew-lynch. I seriously don't.

I'll read up on Empire specifically now. Spyrex and fferyllt pulling it gives me faith.

Spyrex and fferyllt: What are your views on SleepyKrew?

@ferryllt: my lynchpool is SleepyKrew - Plum - Empire and given his behavior from last night, well, I can't say I'm liking Brian all that much anymore. But SleepyKrew is on his wagon, which gives me enormous pause, and somehow I would understand that a miller is demotivated at a stage like this.

[Grimgroove]

I've just ISO'd Empire and I have to say: it's difficult not to be impressed.

I don't see what you mean by him not scumhunting or townhunting. 423 blew me off my socks in that regard. The level of analysis shown there is just how I would like to have done it.

And in 411 he provided a perspective on the miller claim I hadn't even considered before: pre-game scum QT-talk. It's true, scum could have devided this plan, and who better to perform it than Brian Skies, the newbie nobody will suspect of having thought of such a thing?

I can't see Empire-scum. I'm looking at Lolwagons' and Spyrex' ISO now to see what case he's got against him, but from what I've seen Empire did attack Spyrex, making the latter's vote suddenyl look quite opportunistic. This could be a blitzwagon, with a lack of town-consensus, that Spyrex is trying to force through on character rather than on argument.

It appears I inadvertently entered the Champions League by joining in this game. Slowly starting to feel this is all going over my head.

That said: I prefer a Brian-lynch over an Empire-lynch right now. 411 is an eye-opener and Brian's latest behavior fits that scenario perfectly.

[Grimgroove]

Yeah!
Let's do this.

VOTE: Sleepy Krew

Every reads list you guys post sways me again. Brian Skies isn't scum. Look at his read on Sleepy Krew, it's so wonderfully correct and just like how I foresaw: if you re-read the topic you can see SleepyKrew is scum. It's not something that can be seen from one post, it's something that you feel, through his interactions with everything, on a whole.

[Grimgroove]

So, I started a little game that I thought would be fun, but it got tedious after 5 minutes. I did manage to get something out of it, I think.

ISO SleepyKrew.

What is the first thing you notice?


QUESTIONS!
Questions everywhere. His entire ISO reads like a barrage of questions, it's a vulcan gun set on topspeed firing questions in every direction.

sleepyKrew has more than 180 posts in this topic so going too far with this exercise wouldn't be good, but these are the questions from just his first 39 posts (so not even half of his activity).

Spoiler: Question-Time

Do you have any reads besides a town lean on Garmr?
Then why were you adamant that they can't be null if you don't have experience with them?
What did this mean?
Even though ns was the first to vote him?
Why have you dropped this reason?
I agree that he needs to be dead before LYLO, but don't you think a D1 policy lynch right out the gate is a not-so-good idea?
Why is SpyreX scum?
How come you didn't try to get us out of RVS?
ChannelDelibird: Reads?
Maestro: Anything?
Meaning you wanted the Day to not end prematurely. Why?
YYR: Thoughts on others besides Kaze?
Can you describe the style of communication?
You're jumpy, Aero momentum was slowing down, and you saw two recent votes for Maestro. What's the town motivation of a third pressure vote in quick succession?
@Plum, what's your current read on ns?
Why did you change votes? Why to Maestro?
Do you still think my slot is scum?
Also, do you think a second vote increases the chance that he's going to respond?
So basically my slot is still your top scumread but you chose to sheep a pressure vote instead? Do you understand that a second pressure vote does literally nothing?
So what, just by replacing out, Aero completely erased your scumread?
Why were you voting Aero?
Am I wrong that he was your top scumread?
What more are you trying to squeeze out?
Thoughts on the Maestro and Kazs wagons?
Why aren't you buying it? Do I need to fire the advertising department?
Uh sorry what question?
Can we see sample Miller, Mafia Goon and Serial Killer Role PMs?
HOW DOES A THIRD VOTE HELP?
Are you content doing nothing?
What are your thoughts on Kaz?
Kaze, do you not realize that I replaced Aero?
Why would Aero replacing out nullify his actions?
How do I look town now but didn't before you realized I replaced Aero?
What are you doing?

Observation number 1:
Most of these questions have two things in common: 1. Tedious to answer. 2. Pointless.

1. is what scum wants because it makes everyone who doesn't answer in full look bad.
2. Pointless as there is no clear track of follow-up that I can discern. SleepyKrew ending up on the miller-wagon is an indication of this.

What is the possible follow-up of all these "why"-questions? You think scum can't come up with "reasons"? It's the easiest thing to do.
"What are your thoughts", same.

SleepyKrew doesn't mind long posts so my question to him: Pick five questions out of that list and tell me what you learned from them.

Observation 2:
SleepyKrew asks more than he answers. He's taking this game to anything that's not about him, even when talking about him. When you talk about him, he turns it around and makes it about you, too lazy to find examples, to useless in his votes, too this or too that. This is the sandstorm I've been talking about, and SleepyKrew created it with his tempest of ?????????

[Grimgroove]

When reading SleepyKrew you have to cut away all this weight of questions, and you'll see there's very little left of him.

[Grimgroove]

So conflicted

Not liking this bit AT ALL

With my luck, I might not even be around in time for the deadline hammer, but who knows.

What does that have to do with luck? You're sounding like the "world is against me"-type of person here. AtE...
What does it even matter if you're around for the hammer or not? You look like you just said all you wanted to say.

I wish SleepyKrew-Brian Skies in a scumteam would make more sense, life would be easier.

[Grimgroove]

Where are you guys?

I'll be back tomorrow in around 14 hours, so I'll be here during the last hour of deadline. If the SleepyKrew-train didn't gain any traction I'm aleady now claiming willingness to hop on Brian's choochoo.

Empire, no, not feeling it, sorry, you'll have to look elsewhere for support for that one.

[Grimgroove]

Will be catching up today.

[Grimgroove]

Garmr's post looks like a 'congratulating the doctor' tell.

SK's attack on the Maestro wagon was weird to begin with as was pointed out before. The coaching. The chainsaw defense of the Maestro slot.

VOTE: SleepyKrew

I'm fairly confident NS is town. His meta matches exactly with a previous game I've had with him as town. Exactly. And while this made me suspicious at first, I decided that plus NS's vote on Maestro early makes him town.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

VOTE: SleepyKrew[/post]

I don't have much else to add at this point, apart from the fact that Plum's effort in 1031 rings town to me, though I'd like to hear more about her pre-selection process when lifiting out those three. Empire had me fooled, there's no denying it, and the vig really did town a huge favor because I don't think he was going to get lynched very easily. Other reads remain unchanged, though ChannelDeliBird's grumpiness is becoming less of a decisive factor in my townread on him, which is wavering fiercely given I don't remember seeing him around ever since I sobered up here.

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: SleepyKrew

[Grimgroove]

Not a lot of time right now, but I'm suddenly being townread by quite a few people and I'm not sure that's sitting very well with me.
Especially ChannelDeliBird suddenly considering me his strongest townread seems quite out there. MAybe afte rthe Empire-debacle scum thinks me to be easily swooned and manipulated, but free townreads like that just feel like buddying. No matter how much enthousiasm I show and how much heart I put into it ("sheer volume and heart"), those are not clear-cut towntells and I find it odd you use these as your arguments to call me your top townread.

[Grimgroove]

I can't say I like CDB's case on fferyllt. First it was such a bold thing to do to scrutinize someone who's considered obvtown by most, bold as in townish. But looking at the case, I don't actually see much of a case. The little he presents also comes with such an apologetic tone he seems to realize himself his arguments don't hold much water. I like Garmr's 1066.

Let's get this wagon rolling.

VOTE: ChannelDeliBird

But let's not forget about SleepyKrew. The man can't be allowed to prod his way out of our attention field.

[Grimgroove]

On my phone so can't post much but, Grimgroove, ffery, what do you think was the scum motivation for presenting my thoughts on ffery as I did?

You asking this question points to possible scum motivation.
Like I said, at first I thought you were tiown for swimming against the stream by picking on fferyllt, an obvscum read for many. And I think this is the reaction you wanted to go for, because in essence there is indeed no scum motivation for doing so. But that in itself is scum motivation enough. The fact you're confident we can't find any scum motivation ehind your push (which is evident since you asked the question) further points in this direction.

The nature of the push doesn't sound sincere, and combined with this question, I think you only did it to instill the reaction that you clearly wanted: us thinking you're town for doing something that has no discernable scum motivation behind it.

[Grimgroove]

Same here. I think the only way to approach this reasonably is to go for interactions. My scumreads on SleepyKrew and CDB feel pretty solid though, I don't see what I could add more to the fferyllt-CDB discussion other than say CDB hasn't convinced me. SleepyKrew is in prod-mode and still hasn't addressed anything I said about/to him making further participation from my side difficult at this point.

[Grimgroove]

That he's town and that his reads are more than windowdressing.

[Grimgroove]

Plum, then. Around this time, she seems to be largely ignoring Maestro but includes him in a pretty passive list of basically 'people who can die, I guess', which I think is more likely to come from a buddy than not. I find her vote on Grimgroove a bit weird, as he looks fairly solidly town due to sheer volume of input and heart, and there are also a couple of other posts which I noted down though are mostly seen through confirmation bias, I suspect. Of everything, she seems like the vote I can least argue with at the moment.

I just went to get the case so everyone knows what we're talking about.

I don't want to be making Plum's defense here, but:

This case fits with the idea of windowdressing.
The first argument is about including Maestro into a passive list. This should hardly be considered an argument considering Maestro was a passive player. It is not unreasonable at all to have him in such a list.
Then he jumps from the beginning of the game right to the end, where Plum voted me. However right CDB is in his townread on me, and however wrong Plum is in her scumread on me, the arguments are the other way around. Plum made an actual case of me being scum, through interactions between my slot and Empire. Quite in detail. I can actually see them being considered arguments.
All CDB has to offer as an argument for me being town is that I produced a lot of volume and showed heart.
He concludes his case with a blanket statement of some "other notes" on some "other posts by Plum" he has, but proceeds to invalidate that himself by mentioning a confbias (probably in order not to have to come up with those unexisting notes). A confbias? After those two measly arguments, one of which relates to the beginning of the topic and one to the end? How does that explain a confirmation bias on anything Plum posted in between those instances?

[Grimgroove]

And this mentioning of the confbias explains the concern you have with the thing you bolded fferyllt. Despite him proclaiming him possibly having a confbias, he has to put down a vote. He needs a ridge between the confbias and the vote. That bridge is the hedging thing you have noticed. A bit of one side, a bit of the other.

[Grimgroove]

fferyllt, why aren't you voting? Who are your main scumreads right now?

[Grimgroove]

Prod dodge, because everyone is doing it :-s

[Grimgroove]

If people aren't going to bother reading up, I advise them to simply sheep my vote. Trust me, I know what I'm doing.
First ChannelDelBird, then SleepyKrew.

[Grimgroove]

Great! Here's your to-do-list:

1. Get lynched.

[Grimgroove]

No, you are confusing your to-do list with mine.

You only have one task. You can volunteer to help with the other, but your participation is not compulsory. It's no fun watching a buddy die so I'd understand if you didn't.

[Grimgroove]

Plum made a case based on interactions with Empire that covers most of what you're looking for.

Only thing wrong with it, is the vote following it, but it seems Plum has regained a sense of ... sense and moved it to where it should be.

[Grimgroove]

Today's the day I do stuff
But not just any stuff
Stuff in this game!

Very promising indeed...

SleepyKrew had to drop the act ever since he's caught in it, and now seems to be having difficulty getitng himself motivated again. Scumtell.

[Grimgroove]

I would love for every person in their next post to either vote for NS or explain to me why he's a bad vote - and, by that, I mean why he's town.

I think notscience is town. Its not something really quantifiable but he makes... sense. I can follow his play from a town point a lot more than others.

[Grimgroove]

My case on CDB: check my ISO starting from post 1061

My case on SleepyKrew: 939 (still unaddressed by SleepyKrew)

Brian Skies also made a good case in 937 and Peabody's ISO is also full of good arguments to lynch SleepyKrew.

[Grimgroove]

I have found out what the blinking-pattern in SpyreX' avatar is.

This is how boring this game has become through all your prod dodges.

[Grimgroove]

^ L-1

notscience, stop looking scummy, your antics will possibly halt this wagon on scum. Thank you for your understanding.

[Grimgroove]

mine bitches

Pssht

[Grimgroove]

I dont know what it is about this game, but there's still not any bite. I don't like the CDB Wagon, at all.

Please specify who or what you don't like about it.

[Grimgroove]

I didn't really see this as scummy antics. Antics, sure, but more the "let's make something happen" kind. The "whoops, didn't mean to put him at L-1" take-back is more problematic to me. I don't really understand why you'd object to your #1 suspect being put at L-1.

I don't object to him being put at L-1. I do object to him being derphammered, and with an L-1 that is not aonnounced as such, chances of that happening increase dramatically.

Some people view not announcing an L-1 as scummy. I personally don't, as it's often the result of carelessness, but I did want to clarify to notscience that his behavior might be perceived as such. My main interest in this is getting this CDB wagon going with as little noise as possible. The case on him is good, his defense on it weak, there's no reason why his lynch can't happen in an orderly way.

[Grimgroove]

A little less than three days till deadline.

This is not a boat. This is a ghostship.

[Grimgroove]

Welcome Albert

(prod dodge)

[Grimgroove]

Sk hasn't been acting scummy at all today. All SK's posts were prod dodges, Garmr.

Which was scummy in itself, given it was a huge break from his usual game and he never once answered to my comments. He alsoied about catching up one day. He was simply buying time.

I'll let you know right here and now that I don't mind lynching replacements, even if they just got here. That slot is top-scum.

I do like CTD's case on Plum. Going to look into it myself.

[Grimgroove]

With a little more than a day until deadline, we should either force a claim out of CDB and go from there or work on a viable counter-wagon. I obviously prefer option b. I don't think an SK wagon

based purely on his flaking

has a lot of legs, but I'm not generally opposed to his lynch if ABR doesn't start putting in effort. I think Plum is more likely to flip scum.

The thing in bold is evidently not true, but I do like your general way of thinking.

I'm very eager to see Plum's reaction to your 1212.

[Grimgroove]

I dont know what it is about this game, but there's still not any bite. I don't like the CDB Wagon, at all.

Please specify who or what you don't like about it.

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

He's using his replacement-status as a means of getting through this day.
His predecessor had plenty of time and opportunity to respond to my questions, it's not something that would have taken more time than the time used posting prod dodges and fluff. SleepyKrew also promised content one day and didn't deliver. At the time of making the promise we can be certain he had the time, or at least some time. He did not use it at all.

And now look at Albert's ISO.
Asking for summaries to Garmr and ferryllt: does nothing with them, no interaction with the people providing the summaries, no thoughts on them.
Forumlates a plan (a reasonable one) on how to go about his catch-up: read the end of D1 and read D2. This is not a big reading assignment, but we have yet to see anything concrete coming out of this exercise.
The only thing he's got: scumread on me and Peabody. Coincidentally the two pushing for SleepyKrew's lynch the hardest. No reasons provided.
Formulates another plan for catching-up: Reading through Empire's interactions. No results to be seen from that exercise either.
Asks for the case on CDB. If he had read Day 2 like he said he would, he wouldn't have to ask for this case.
Last message is yet again one where he claims to be catching up. This time no plan of action is formulated.

He's coasting his way until Day 3 and I want a claim at the very least, and ideally a lynch.

This slot has been occupied by three people and I haven't liked any of them as town.

[Grimgroove]

I think Plum at the very least deserves another day to live. Her last reply was sound, calm and checks out as far as I can see.

CDB, not sold on him being town at all, the arguments still stand and Plum summarized it perfectly. But given both Spyrex (was on the mark with regards to Empire) and CTD (one of my strongest townreads) are not sold on the idea, I'm willing to discuss this with them further during the next day.

Albert B. Rampage is a good compromise wagon at the end of a day where there has been close to zero-activity. More pressure, make him claim asap, and we'll see where we get from there.

[Grimgroove]

No.
Care to fill me in?

[Grimgroove]

And this changes anything how?

[Grimgroove]

Read 1232, read his ISO, and you can see how.

The fact his activity is constricted to this topic alone is entirely irrelevant.

It is not just the level of his activity, it's also the nature of said activity.

[Grimgroove]

Unvote, vote Plum

Not moving my vote to Plum, due to the above. That vote is terrible.

Why is it so difficult to get this slot lynched?

[Grimgroove]

We have little over a day. With what is possible right now I'm not even a little convinced about CDB and my crusade isn't getting traction for now.

Unvote, Vote: Plum.

Consolidate and fight.

I feel like I'm being dense and asking the same questions. I just don't get your CDB read. "not even a little convinced". Does this mean you're strongly townreading him? If so, what's the basis?

I'm probably going to sheep you without these answers

, but I'd really like to understand your reasoning for CDB-town. He's pinged pretty hard for me.

Why?

If there's to be any consolidating it should be on Albert Rampage.

[Grimgroove]

Unvote, vote Plum

Time permitting, I'd really like to see some reasoning.

Time permitting? Screw timpe permitting. If time permitted him to place that vote, time will permitted him to get arguments for doing so and time would permit it to simply place them along with that vote.

His lack of reasons have got nothing to do with time permitting it or not.

LYNCH THISD IMMEDIATELY!

[Grimgroove]

Your strongest townread? Are you referring to Plum now? When did that happen and why?

[Grimgroove]

jesus christ. an hour and a half.

Still plenty of time to explain why Plum is "your strongest scumread".

[Grimgroove]

Your strongest townread? Are you referring to Plum now? When did that happen and why?

You're going to have to show me where I posted that. I said strongest scum read.

Typo.

[Grimgroove]

I'm not voting Plum. You have to sheep the Albert-wagon or face a no-lynch. You guys have done fuck-all this day and you don't deserve the authority of leading compromise wagons.

[Grimgroove]

I don't think it's that easily whipped up. The way she lives back into the situations referred to with such ease, and shows the town motivation for her actions without any gaps nor leaps of reasoning, makes it convincing and really not that easy to do as scum.
Aside from her defense I think her game has been generally pro-town. Her investigation into the interactions with Empire, for which I don't hold her pre-selection of which interactions to look at against her. She explained why she chose those three and her explanation makes sense.

And to seal the deal: my top scumread (Albert) just opportunistically voted her without any reasoning whatsoever, after having claimed repeatedly not to have been caught up with the game.

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: Albert

SK was a scum read for today. It must suck fudge to get lynched after you replace in.

<3

[Grimgroove]

That's a really bad case Peabody.
If you're scumreading Plum for the reasons you just addressed (faulty reads), your townread on me makes no sense because they were equally faulty (Brian Skies, Empire, SleepyKrew).

@fferyllt: What are YOUR thoughts on Grimgroove?

I find notscience a strange choice for the nightkill. He was nowhere near conftown and not especially active that would make you think he would make scum nervous.

[Grimgroove]

If I had to guess, I would say that notsci wasn't the scumkill. He looks more in line with motivations that would have driven an Empire kill.

I was thinking the same.

[Grimgroove]

Yeah I'm here. Give me a minute to put my thoughts together. I have a couple of VERY strong Town reads and one or

two VERY strong scum reads

on first pass.

I had Spyrex and notscience in my strong Town reads.

Plum and -

I think -

Grimm in my Scum reads. I'll post some cases.

But first.... obligatory wagon analysis post incoming.

How can you have two very strong scumreads and not even be sure of the name of the second scumread?

[Grimgroove]

I know from our one prior game together that bad reads plus heavy pressure happen in your town game, but doing that accidentally as town leaves room for purposeful mislynches as scum.

I'm sure you know of a way to discern between the two possible scenarios. Don't let me down.

[Grimgroove]

I'm bitter about the ABR lynch and my hand in it, and I want to blame it all on you.

I'll probably get past that in a few hours.

Not sure if you meant that as a joke, but given you had an entire nightstage to get over that, I don't think the proclaimed sentiment that your bitterness will be over in a few hours is genuine.

[Grimgroove]

I find your self-criticism misplaced, given the circumstances of the lynch.

I provided pretty compelling arguments, I forced you into that specific compromise and time was running out. The only alternative you had was a no-lynch. The only ones who really are to blame for that lynch are SleepyKrew, Aeronaut and Albert B. Rampage as far as I'm concerned.

Blaming me would be a more logical thing to do if you don't think the Albert B. Rampage lynch was called for.

So fferyllt: why are you so hard on yourself?

[Grimgroove]

Also, just realized SpyreX is notscience's neighbor. So, yeah. He's conf Town at this point.

How does that work?

[Grimgroove]

So what would you improve exactly? Let's assume we go back in time and we find ourselves right back in that situation. What would you have done differently?

Also, feel free to answer me question to Yates, as I noticed you agreed with his line of thinking.

[Grimgroove]

Good point! Let's give it to Yates first.

[Grimgroove]

That would make him obvtown, not conftown. You said conftown.
You mentioned the neighborship during your train of thought. Are you now denying that had something to do with the conftown-conclusion you reached?

What about notscience and SpyreX interactions seemed so obviously town-town to you?

[Grimgroove]

Thank you for that clarification.

VOTE: Yates

[Grimgroove]

a lynch that I can 100% guarantee will not go through

Challenge accepted.

[Grimgroove]

I think she's town.

[Grimgroove]

CTD is one of my strongest townreads, ever since my first serious read-through when I was catching up. He hasn't given me reasons to change that read in the slightest, on the contrary. I am very curious what his reads are, as he's the only one I'm willing to sheep at this point in tha case I can't be the herder anymore after yesterDay's sad conclusion.

SpyreX I've got another theory on, but I think it's better I keep the details of that to myself for the time being. The idea might seem farfetched and I need to doublecheck something first before blurting it out. But he's not as strong of a townread as he used to be anymore.

[Grimgroove]

He didn't seem to mind a CDB lynch either, so we'll see.

[Grimgroove]

Ah. My memory has obviously failed me

Now that Yates has answered my question about SpyreX-notscience (albeit in a very unsatisfactory way), would you mind telling me what you had in mind when agreeing with his conclusion?

Tit for tat, I'll give you a glimpse of my theory right after that.

[Grimgroove]

Although on second thought, SpyreX shouldn't be a priority for today.

[Grimgroove]

Although on second thought, SpyreX shouldn't be a priority for today.

You understand that when Plum flips scum you get lynched tomorrow, right?

Is that another one of your 100% guarantees or should I actually be worried?

[Grimgroove]

Better, but I think Plum addressed that one adequately.

[Grimgroove]

Yeah I'm here. Give me a minute to put my thoughts together. I have a couple of VERY strong Town reads and one or two VERY strong scum reads on first pass.

I had Spyrex and notscience in my strong Town reads.

Plum and - I think - Grimm in my Scum reads.

I'll post some cases.

But first.... obligatory wagon analysis post incoming.

Where are the cases?

[Grimgroove]

Hey, what about me? I feel left out.

[Grimgroove]

Yeah I'm here. Give me a minute to put my thoughts together. I have a couple of VERY strong Town reads and one or

two VERY strong scum reads

on first pass.

I had Spyrex and notscience in my strong Town reads.

Plum and -

I think -

Grimm in my Scum reads. I'll post some cases.

But first.... obligatory wagon analysis post incoming.

How can you have two very strong scumreads and not even be sure of the name of the second scumread?

[Grimgroove]

And you still did not post those cases, despite stating you had them.

[Grimgroove]

I'm second guessing the players on the Yates wagon or those actually speaking out against your lynch.

Terrible.

[Grimgroove]

CTD, I'm preferring your case on Garmr over the one on Plum.

What do you make of Yates so far?

ToDay I'd be willing to cooperate in a Plum-lynch, BUT there's still time left and I'm still not convinced she's scum. Not in the slightest even. The fact she didn't claim could simply mean she's waiting for the intent to hammer, which is common practice.

[Grimgroove]

Because I have no intent to hammer and I'm not concerned about her claim at this point.

[Grimgroove]

On Plum? If you do, don't forget to state that intent so that she can claim at least.

I still don't like Yates but feel I'm squeezed out of arguments to convince CTD and Spyrex at this point, so I'm willing to move my vote.
I like CTD's 1391 on Garmr. Garmr's lazy defense in 1398 is telling.
I'm not convinced 1390 is the way to go right now, as we don't know Plum's flip.

[Grimgroove]

Peabody, why were you fine with a CDB lynch near the end of yesterday but are not even discussing the Yates-slot today?

[Grimgroove]

CTD's case looked good.
Your defense to it looks good.
I don't see why I should interfere with CTD's line of questioning right now.
I agree with your views on Yates.
What do you think of Plum?

[Grimgroove]

Why weren't you interested in a Plum lynch yesterday?

[Grimgroove]

GG - The primary reason I was okay with CDB being lynched is based on gut founded in CDB's early interactions with the miller claim. I'm much more interested in a Plum lynch because while my gut read was pinging on CDB, it's PINGING on Plum. When I looked through the thread, Plum's early reads didn't sit right with me, especially because they were town flips.

I feel like there's something intentional behind Plum's cases on town. I know this won't hold up in court, but all this doesn't -feel- right to me.

And your explanation doesn't feel right to me. There's either a confbias gonig on where you read Plum in light of what CTD said, or there's something more fishy. It's definitely not gut. If it had been gut, you would have felt the same thing when first reading Plum's posts.

I am really not sold on this Plum-lynch but it's starting to look like it's inevitable.

If she flips town, my theory is a Yates - Peabody scumteam + possibility Spyrex is an SK (maybe with an x-shot bulletproof).

That last bit was the farfetched theory I was talking about, but the notscience kill got me to thinking that. I don't know how common it is for SKs to be neighbors, but I checked and it's a theoretical possibility at least.

If she flips scum, well, just ignore my reads because then they're obviously off this game.

[Grimgroove]

Our cop should consider claiming

You think? It's only Day 3. Maybe tomorrow is a safer bet?

Also, it's possible our protective role saved our cop last night. Would be 1 explanation for a missing kill.

I hate this post so much.

[Grimgroove]

Our cop should consider claiming, it's pretty obvious who they are and who their targets were and I wasn't PR hunting.

To be honest, I thought it was you. Your switch with regards to me between the end of Day 1 and the start of Day 2 always struck me as odd, in a Town-PR kind of way. Explaining my strong townread on you.

Now that this is obviously not the case, you need to explain that 180 with regards to me in more detail. Upon my arrival you were pushing for my lynch, calling my catch-up bad, and then suddenly you backed off COMPLETELY. You have not even sought interaction with me, apart from a constructive talk near the end of Day 2 where you asked me to explain my townread on Plum.

[Grimgroove]

Did you see my theory?

[Grimgroove]

Given Yates' "reads" that theory goes out of the window :p

[Grimgroove]

Given Plum's mazal tov I think it's safe to assume my reads can be ignored as she'll flip scum.

Told you this game was over my head.

[Grimgroove]

AAAAAAAH.


I sucked badly in this game, but at least I get to boast about this one :mgreen:

GG - The primary reason I was okay with CDB being lynched is based on gut founded in CDB's early interactions with the miller claim. I'm much more interested in a Plum lynch because while my gut read was pinging on CDB, it's PINGING on Plum. When I looked through the thread, Plum's early reads didn't sit right with me, especially because they were town flips.

I feel like there's something intentional behind Plum's cases on town. I know this won't hold up in court, but all this doesn't -feel- right to me.

And your explanation doesn't feel right to me. There's either a confbias gonig on where you read Plum in light of what CTD said, or there's something more fishy. It's definitely not gut. If it had been gut, you would have felt the same thing when first reading Plum's posts.

I am really not sold on this Plum-lynch but it's starting to look like it's inevitable.

If she flips town, my theory is a Yates - Peabody scumteam + possibility Spyrex is an SK (maybe with an x-shot bulletproof).

That last bit was the farfetched theory I was talking about, but the notscience kill got me to thinking that. I don't know how common it is for SKs to be neighbors, but I checked and it's a theoretical possibility at least.

If she flips scum, well, just ignore my reads because then they're obviously off this game.

Good game.

[Grimgroove]

ABR shouldn't have been lynched. SleepyKrew had played very protown. That lynch really pissed me off. I think I'm getting progressively stubborn and opposed to lynching townreads rather than letting nolynch happen.

ABR lynch was largely a result of town indecisiveness and the resulting deadline scramble. I think this is a common town weakness in today's metagame, and your style of play is pretty conductive to that. :p

With more time, maybe a Plum lynch could have been swung (giving Spyrex 3 mislynches to overcome without the town catching on).

CTD, excellent case on me. I did my best with it, but you were right in saying that the response was no more than a competent scum could whip up, and it was basically correct for scumminess on many counts.

Thanks! I thought I was scumhunting pretty well in general and I've actually used a new (to me) scumhunting technique I picked up and adapted from Llamarble to figure you out, which was basically to assess posts based on how hard they'd be to fake for scum and you came out looking the worst by a wide margin. You are a type of player I've always struggled reading in the past, so I'm very pleased it worked out. My case on you was probably good because I made it after I had already decided you were scum for those completely unrelated reasons, cutting out a lot of the guesswork that usually goes into a case and keeping it to the point and free from bloat (as a bonus, it also kept me from starting to trade quote-walls with you, as I am usually wont to do). Something to keep in mind for future games.

That's some good advice!

[Grimgroove]

I take credit for that ABR-lynch







Oh wait, nobody liked it .

So my only influence in the game was to contribute to its biggest mistake?