Mini 956: The Quayside (Game Over)

[popsofctown]

Vote: Incognito

I know you from somewhere but can't remember where. USually those cases ultimately turn out to be "oh yeah I saw him murdering a guy at a bar one time".

[popsofctown]

How did you feel when you stopped beating your wife? I felt about like that.

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote: Goatrevolt

I mean yeah, I don't have any reason to think he's scum, but LET'S MAKE HIM LOSE, he BEAT his WIFE guys!

[popsofctown]

I modded you in that Open game that I created. Weak M.D.

Oh yes. We hypoclaimed as town in that game and it was very advantageous. It's always good to hypoclaim in games like that. To hypoclaim by twilight at least.
Twilight.

I hate that book, Twilight.

Vote: Twilight

.


Oh I got on such a rant. As for this game, Patrick looks suspicious. Whoever starts pointing the most baseless fingers in the RVS looks fishy to me. But I hope I'm not omgussing.

[popsofctown]

I mentioned omgussing because I was genuinely unsure of my own ability to respond to suspicions indicated towards me. Was it really silly to cast suspicion on me like that, or does it only seem silly because I know I'm not actually scum?

Answers the other question, why I didn't vote for him. I hear constantly from people in seemingly every game I play that I ought to be voting whoever I'm talking about, but I move my vote as I please. I'm actually somewhat slower with my vote as town than as scum, I'm trying to work on that (slowing down my voting when I get a scum pm, that is).

@Goatrevolt: Are you still beating your wife is a universal meme, it's kind of old and outdated and dead now but my dad still likes it.

@Incognito: I think scum are more likely to take RVS seriously because there really on the average isn't anything there for the first few pages. Town sit around with the mentality "when something scummy happens, i'll move and accelerate the game".
Scum sit around with the mentality "when something happens, I'll move and accelerate the game". This is kind of a chunk of the universal tendency for scum to point fingers at something that isn't a valid tell, but it's a special case because scum are even more restless in the RVS stage, they can't even give thumbsup/thumbsdown to any real scumhunting.

I'm not nuking future games for iamausername's question.

[popsofctown]

I didn't answer the question because I hate explaining jokes. Do you know anyone that likes explaining jokes?

The point of the qualifier is to emphasize how I want to "lynch 5cuM" (moral) instead of lynch scum. Without the qualifier, you can miss the joke thinking i'm somehow linking his domestic violence to his alignment in this game (a valid avenue for humor, but not the one I felt like using).

/agree with Incognito. Non-rookie scum aren't jumping at the chance to increase their profile during RVS.

This is WIFOM. If people think like me, then it is a profile raise to point fingers in RVS, and he won't do it. If they don't think like me, they can do it and get away with it. But he definitely wouldn't do it if we knew we'd catch him doing it right? silliness.

[popsofctown]

Saying he wouldn't do it because it'd make him look suspicious is WIFOM. Maybe that's what he wants you to think. It's WIFOM. I confuddled myself yes but WIFOM is confusing matters.

You asked three questions, only one isn't rhetorical, and I missed it.

I feel like I have no info on Elmo's alignment. Seems like something I'd do as town so based on gut town. (his only post, that is.)

[popsofctown]

On a more serious note, I think pops is scum. My vote wasn't random. Something about his first post rubbed me the wrong way. I felt like he was trying too hard to appear casual/joking and it came off as forced. Then he tried to joke when I called him scum, but it felt forced again, and hell, he didn't deny it.

You mean like how your wife beating joke was forced? RL D1 of D1 of an invitational (basically) is a tough crowd, and while I have reasons for looking at pops, it's not because he's a bad comedian.

Meh. Meh. I have reasons for looking at pops beyond him being "a bad comedian" as well. Why not bother to address that? You pulled out a small part of my post, said you don't buy it, said you have differing reasons to be suspicious of the same player I am, and then ignored the rest of my post where I also gave additional reasoning. Weird...

I didn't answer the question because I hate explaining jokes. Do you know anyone that likes explaining jokes?

Ummmm...what? The question was 'why did you tack the qualifier that you didn't believe I was scum onto your joke vote?' Considering that qualifier had nothing to do with the actual joke, I really don't buy this response at all.

Why did you care about making sure we knew that you were joking? What were you worried of happening?

THE QUALIFIER IS PART OF THE JOKE. Geez. Is this going to be another brickwall game? I don't think I can handle another brickwall game. I really don't.

I already explained how that clause is integral to the joke. That might also be why it, durhur, isn't separated by something like a period or semicolon.

@Incognito: Think I forgot to point out a misunderstanding a while ago, you saw two quotes "wait for something scummy to happen then move" and "wait for something to happen then move" and you thought they looked exactly the same. You missed the word scummy, omitted from one of the cases. I mentioned this in the mental draft of my post but it didn't hit the page.

More likely to do that as town than as scum?

Yep. If it were me. All Towntells Are Weak though, but I'm definitely not leaning scum on it like some may choose to.

Can you link to one past game (or MD thread) where you've supported this?

Gimme sec.

[popsofctown]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &&start=25

Scum got restless during RVS in my very first newbie game. Is that enough for you to believe I'm not making it up as I go along?

I don't have a wiki, so it's hard for me to pull links, usually google gives me enough for "lemme read one where you're town"

[popsofctown]

TBH i can see the "joke plus qualifier" of what i said, but they are reading it wrong, (wrong inflection or something), and it ticks me off when people use blinders.

[popsofctown]

Goatrevolt ninjaed me earlier.


And he's being dumb. I will hit you. With a billy club. Turn your confirmation bias off for more than 3 seconds and read the post again.


Do you see the difference between, "Voting Goatrevolt because he beats his wife. [that must mean he's scum]" and "Voting Goatrevolt, not because I think he's scum, but as punishment for domestic violence".

[popsofctown]

@Pops: What is that last post in response to?

52

[popsofctown]

@Pops: Ok, I'm less confused now. I had no clue you were talking about me. 56 is a response to 52 and 53 is a response to 51. I see your point, although I don't get why you continue to be so pissed when I'm not even voting you anymore.

Missed the unvote actually.

[popsofctown]

@pops: what's a "brickwall game"? Who did you hope you weren't OMGUS-ing, or was it a statement to hope that you wouldn't OMGUS people in the future?

A brickwall game is a game where I have to argue with brickwalls that may or may not be named GoatRevolt.
--------------

pops was a huge leader in that game, and posted a lot of good content. Something I see lacking in here.

Pops was already a leader in the first few pages of that game? Is that a fair comparison this early into the game?[/quote]

Last game with McGriddle had a breakable set up and I led the breaking. There's nothing to break here so I guess McGriddle is expecting massive scumhunting burdenned by proficiency in its place.

[popsofctown]

I'm not nuking future games for iamausername's question.

So, what, you think your scum play is super impregnable to anyone else? That only

you

can unlock the secret of scumpops? Don't you think that's a little arrogant?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

All Towntells Are Weak though

Not true, certainly not deserving of Authoritative Captial Letters. Identifying town players and lynching everyone else is every bit as valid a strategy a identifying scum players and lynching them.

---

Ecto's 82/83 constitute the most valid case I've seen thus far, so I'm happy with my vote where it is.

You aren't really contradicting me with that second sentence. I believe any individual towntell is weak, but they can accumulate. Not all townREADS are weak, buy any one town tell is weak if it's not somehow related to mod info.

[popsofctown]

@pops: what's a "brickwall game"? Who did you hope you weren't OMGUS-ing, or was it a statement to hope that you wouldn't OMGUS people in the future?

A brickwall game is a game where I have to argue with brickwalls that may or may not be named GoatRevolt.

Are you seriously still going on about this? If you consider me attacking you on page 1 and backing off you by page 3 "brickwalling" then I'd like to know what you call it when someone actually does tunnel the hell out of another player. My pressure against you was minor, and I backed off relatively soon, all things considered.

[popsofctown]

All towntells are weak. If there was something that was really a guaranteed way to make yourself look town, scum would do it. In this way, towntells sort of always remain weak. There's few exceptions.

Scumtells happen because people mess up. People mess up, but they can't "awesome up" and do some epic towntell.

[popsofctown]

All towntells are weak. If there was something that was really a guaranteed way to make yourself look town, scum would do it. In this way, towntells sort of always remain weak. There's few exceptions.

Scumtells happen because people mess up. People mess up, but they can't "awesome up" and do some epic towntell.

...and?

Did you think it necessary to warn people off of believing people to be town based off a single tell? Why would you not then do the same about single scum tells? (not scum slips, there is a big difference) \

In context, i was asked what I thought of a player. Since I gave only positive feedback, I felt it necessary to say that all towntells are weak so it doesn't sum to a strong town read.

[popsofctown]

.....................55 pages?

[popsofctown]

I post fluff with both alignments now. I found out it's actually pretty fun.

[popsofctown]

I said I missed it. You said I was lying. You want me to say: "no, I really missed it?" Doesn't seem worthwhile, somehow.

I post nonfluff sometimes.

[popsofctown]

@Goat - I liked your game starter on Pops. I also think that gut reads are not to be dismissed out of hand. Whether his joked were forced or not depends on familiarity with him. Another opinion feels he is being Pops, and so the case boils down to my original description, a good game starter.

unvote

This is scummy, I don't like that (was rereading/isoing)

So I guess I'd vote Ectomancer for his halfway support of goatrevolt's case. It's fishy. Seems more like calculating what wagon he wants to be on or off of then continuous feelings about my alignment.

[popsofctown]

I wanna play dino run. It'd be a great metaphor for my life's escapism anyway.

[popsofctown]

I don't see how Ectomancer's post 129 is a town tell, or gives anyone the good feelings. It looks like something he could easily talk about as either alignment, since its mostly in generalizations about how he'll play. It means zilch to me, but I don't see anything from him that looks suspicious.

RedCoyote doesn't look passive-aggressive to me. The contradiction he thought he found on SerialClergyman looked more like he was trying to get a better understanding of those two quotes, rather than try and sit on the fence. Up until his Elmo vote I think he's was posting more reactionary than proactively, as in forming his posts around responses to other people's posts, which could benefit him if he was scum having a hard time forming original content.

I don't agree with Nabakov's McGriddle case over the "bad scum" and "only non-invitation" points. They looked like normal responses, nothing to gain or lose. But I don't see how that translates to Nabakov being scum.
And I do agree with Nabakov on how Elmo hasn't explained his position on anything yet despite his votes. I don't know if this is normal Elmo-play or not.

McGriddle didn't mention the circumstances of the game where pops was a vocal leader. That would be important when trying to argue that pops is "lacking" something here. @McGriddle: Is pops right about the circumstances of that game? Was it breakable?

popsofctown is aware of his fluff meta, and I think he could use it as scum to try and hide behind this null tell. I don't mind some of his jokes, as long as he doesn't use it to deflect from attention. Post 99 looks like deflection. I think he tried to redirect Goat's feelings about him into the fluff posting tell.

unvote;
Vote: popsofctown

Jahudo, why did I post fluff in Mafia Jailbreak?

[popsofctown]

So there's been talk. In this thread. About me. And the f-word.

Jahudo got the question I asked him wrong. Or half correct perhaps. I full read of Mafia Jailbreak would reveal that I continued fluff deep past when it was useful for initiating conversation, with players even saying "The time for that is over now".

A more correct answer would have been that I entertain myself and laugh at my own jokes and become ever so pleased with myself. This has nothing to do with alignment, empirically I don't do it more as scum rather than town, on paper it is foolish as well. Suppose I am under some pressure x, and can either lurk or crack a joke in this thread. Are people going to forget that I have crap to answer for if I come make myself conspicuous with a joke, or skip a day and look at some card spoilers on MTGS? If I lurk.

I've been accused of fluffposting here and there in other games, but not as strongly as here since mafia jailbreak. In that game, there seemed to be several townies who totally believed it was a scumtell and remained unconvinced it didn't matter as long as I produced ample content ("ample" doesn't mean you double it every time I make an offtopic post, that's unfair beeteedubs) all the living mafia in the game who "me too-ed" on to it when they weren't really crafters of the argument, and one vanilla townie who actually read one of my games and also had a brain and refused to vote me. So I expect that pattern to be followed to some extent, and I'm suspicious of the later votes on my wagon. There's not one in particularly that does it so strongly that I'm ready to bite the neck and leech for blood, but Jahudo was disappointing at the very least, I feel like he's seen this before. Instead of developing a patterned model for my play, he went on an extremely WIFOMy angle of logic and said "last time he posted fluff we thought he was scum and he was actually town, so this time it means he's town... BUT THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS US TO THINK DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUN". That's fine as a reason not to count the fluff as a towntell, but selecting one half of a WIFOM tradeoff with the certainty of a vote, without satisfying analysis explaining why you think a certain half of the tradeoff was selected, ( he vaguely mentioned that I was deflective with my fluff or something), is not good.

So Incognito called for more content from me, which is fair, I'm a little behind the curve on content. It's honestly because I'm seeing lots of town this game, I keep checking the thread, seeing town, not posting, and then LoL tells me a match has been found, but my teammate picked Katarina so it's autoloss anyway.

I had to reread ISOs and the thread before I could find much of anything to point fingers at, but I did find a string of stuff I didn't like from SerialClergyman. (I also hate Nabanab as much as everyone else seems to, but it's been gut and I don't get the articulated reasons atm).

Incog points out that I ignored some major material. Goat quotes and expands on that point. RedCoyote quotes THAT and expands on THAT point. I bet there's scum in those three, and even further I would guess it's Red. The original point was nowhere near strong or unusual enough to get this kind of reaction.

First time through I can't figure out what bothers me. Something worse besides the normal fail/slight scumtell from "dude everyone on my wagon is scum".

It's the way it's ordered. It's sort of subtly arranged in a circular logic form that reinforces the argument with the argument itself.

If you naturally ordered these thoughts yourself, you'd say "Incog points out I ignored some major material, when it wasn't even a big deal. Goat jumps on the molehill too, quoting him and expounding. Then RedCoyote quotes and adds even MORE. One of them is scum, and I bet it's red"

Instead it's out of order. The conclusion that one of them is scum is put before the opinion that it is not a major deal. So by the time you get to the end, you believe it wasn't that big a deal because one of those three is scum. Because they made a big deal of it. It's ordered for circular logic. Even if you don't buy that, it's not ordered logically and town roles are the ones that want to argue things in a clear, logical fashion rather than just spray and pray.

To answer the charge - I read Goat's case on pops and didn't feel the need to comment. While Goat checked the time was 4 minutes after his post, he didn't check that that time in Sydney would have been about 3:30am, and that was my last post before going to bed, which explains it's brevity. But even then, I would have commented if I felt I had something to add, I just didn't.

The "overly defensive" attack should be used sparingly, but I think it's valid here. Serial Clergyman clearly indicates that there are two separate reasons he didn't comment on the case, and that either one was independently sufficient to excuse him of commenting. Yet he takes the time out of his day, and adds space to our thread to explain both reasons. Why not just one and be done with it? Most people just pick the strongest reason that could stand alone and don't go on and on.

It was probably 2:30 in Sydney and he thought, "I'm tired and it'd be easier to wait for the litmus test for pops to come back from the lab before i comment on it anyway."

I think the above is both utterly believable and very unlikely to come from scum.

Wasn't my reaction at all, and I think the strength of his certainty suggests he's playing Sponsor a Townie.

I didn't like one part of Nab's post (that I was oging to for other reasons stuff is a minor scumtell) but I'm not sold on him.

I would like Patrick to say something concrete after his last post, hence my question to him about his suspects.

Greetings, myself and my associate Nabakov are your assigned nightkill provision officers for this game, please don't hesitate to ask us if you have any enquiries

I was thinking the same thing could be possible, Elmo.

unvote, vote Nabakov

Independence 0, Opportunism 1

Neither of you mentioned McGriddle's bizarre, selfadmitted-ignorant vote. Thoughts?

Can I haz your thoughts so that when you haz my thoughts they will be like your thoughts and you won't think the thoughts i haz are scummy?






Well that's all for now.

[popsofctown]

I made a very large post and got ninja'ed several times.

It may not be surprising, but you're using it as evidence against me. You're suggesting that it's likely that Serial(scum) is more likely to completely ignore a giftwrapped case on Pops(???) and instead push (however feebly in your opinion) suspicion on Nabarov(scum mate).

This is really, really awkward sounding. I don't like this at all. At no point did I ever consider pops a "giftwrapped case", and just the notion strikes me as misleading.

By giftwrapped case, he means a case that is easy to piggyback on, take ownership of, and push to lynch.

I feel like I have to take a pretty big step into scum mindset territory just to figure out the term though..

[popsofctown]

and the unifying theme of pops wagon was that he was unrepentantly drawing attention to himself.

lawl

[popsofctown]

@popsofctown:

Why is your vote still on Goatrevolt?

unvote, vote Serial Clergyman

This is actually one of those things where I suddenly remembered while I was in bed that night, but was too tired to get up. I thought "Wait. When I longposted I forgot to put my Serial Clergyman vote at the beginning or the end. Ack".

[popsofctown]

c) Sponsor a townie - I'm a massive advocate of town tells, you can look at most of my meta or anyone who's played with me to verify. I even went through a phase where for day 1 I specifically DIDN'T scum hunt as town, instead just looking for people I wouldn't want to lynch and lynching literally anyone else. I just finished a98 page game with iam as mod where a major factor in our winning was a town read elvis and I made on each other on page 2. If I see something town-looking, I'm calling it out. Theory arguments that it's a bad idea for a scum hitlist are stupid. If we could use a cop or something to give us 3 confirmed town right now, we'd do it, yes? You only need 1 more obvtown than scum left in lylo to win.

So, in short, I'm big on town reads, I'm loud about them.

You gave a town read, with no reasoning. You only gave the post that caused it. If you posted a scum read with no reasoning but a post number and voted on it, I would jump on you. Can I not jump on you for starting a process of elimination that will also lead to a vote on some logically remaining scum later in the game, if it also lacks reasoning? I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.

d) Lack of independence - Probably the worst of the lot given in B) and C) he's shown instances where I WAS independent. I think grabbing all of the times where I've agreed with people or asked for thoughts without acknowledging I've made several of my own observations throughout the game (initial suspicion on nab for his 'I have other reasons' comment, declaring patrick town, declaring ecto town, declaring iam town, suspecting Red) - all of which I think I was either first on or had unique reasoning.

Bed time.

This is a misrep of my argument, but perhaps I didn't make that point clear enough. You indicated in one post that you weren't convinced on Nabscum. Then some people voted him. Then without identifying any reason that pulled him over the threshhold, but instead quoting a REASONLESS votepost and saying you agreed, you vote him. That's not cool.

Instead of developing a patterned model for my play, he went on an extremely WIFOMy angle of logic and said "last time he posted fluff we thought he was scum and he was actually town, so this time it means he's town... BUT THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS US TO THINK DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUN".

I keep checking the thread, seeing town, not posting, and then LoL tells me a match has been found, but my teammate picked Katarina so it's autoloss anyway.

What?

You voted me saying "I was aware of my fluff meta and could be using it to make myself look town". Something like that. It was very WIFOM. I probably ought to quote it.

popsofctown is aware of his fluff meta, and I think he could use it as scum to try and hide behind this null tell.

As for the other, I said when I checked the thread I was seeing nothing but town. I don't post anything when I see nothing but townreads. Other less intelligent players in this thread do, in order to form a more perfect itinerary for the scum nightkills, but I keep it to myself, so I'm left with nothing to comment on unless I need to defend myself or can find some scum.

[popsofctown]

Goatrevolt has the most posts. He just posts whatever he thinks. So surefooted.

[popsofctown]

Yes, I'm bothered.

You two are beating around bushes. What are you getting at?

[popsofctown]

who brought up CSL?

[popsofctown]

The heat on Elmo is bleches and smeckles. Elmo had no content to start out with, then she suddenly posts a large Info post, specifically stating why she did so and telling everyone all he could draw from it. (which wasn't much. I looked at the rainbow and couldn't draw anything either, yet at the same time was optimistic that I could. Thus I could understand someone constructing it but then not having a Golden Ticket post about how it leads to scum. And really if he went to the trouble to construct that you know he has to post it, whether or not she could figure out anything.

Thing is, Elmo was posting very little content per day to begin with. Why is he suddenly getting heat for posting info? It's not negative analysis, it's just not analysis.

The accusation that post count is a useless statistic is wrong. I've been accused of not putting out enough content this game. Even if it weren't so, it'd be relevant, it's always a decent barometer of various activity levels and a check for who is flying under the radar (like Jahudo).



If Elmo was under any heat for lurking to a lesser extent than IAU and Jahudo, then I'd see the IioA argument, but as-is it's misapplied.

What's the case on Jahudo, Incognito? I've posted my own gripes about him going after me in a way I felt weak, and know he's lurking, is there anything else I could be inspired with?

[popsofctown]

Because "No U" doesn't hunt scum very well SC.

Elmo just really seems like a red herring to me. It's unarguable her content is low. But I feel like he's not hiding that it's low, or trying to post in a certain way to active lurk. He just seems genuine to me. It's reminiscent of Hoopla's play in Caught in the Crossfire. Or maybe it was the game before Caught in the Crossfire. Some game with hoopla in it.

Jahudo's low content definitely is less genuine to me, and Incognito's mention of him narrating the thread or playing Larry King jogs my memory.

I still like my SC vote. He pings my gut real hard. Speaking of gut i'm hungreh.

[popsofctown]

My feelings haven't really changed. I still think pops looks scummy. I don't really like the Nabakov wagon, except for one point that I do like. Hopefully this makes me look good if the wagon pull through on its own, but gives me an excuse to vote if it needs help.

Besides that I have bad feelings about Goat and Patrick, I'll withhold my reasoning so I can make it up later if I must and can flipflop as needed. Ima, Ecto and Red are town, town, and scum, but not necessarily in that order because it's about that time of day for playing buddying mindgames.

I'm gonna totally ignore people voting or attacking me, I'll just ride it out and hope others get more attention.

unvote, vote Jahudo

[popsofctown]

Hey, I don't remember saying all that. I haven't said anything new about my feelings of the Nabakov wagon, so why has it taken you this long to find it opportunistic?

So opening yourself up to flip-flopping is scummier than continuing to keep my gut feelings to myself? Duly noted.

I haven't seen any questions directed at me, and I don't have any bad feeling about Incog's vote on me. Of course, you just look like you've been waiting to vote me for a while on old reasoning, but were afraid of the OMGUS backlash of doing it too early.

OBVIOUSLY.

CLEARLY.

EVIDENTLY.

APPARENTLY.

No. I thought SC was scummier, until you made a post that has more waffles than Ihop.

But it's good to know people voting you doesn't cause you to have bad feelings. That's an obvjesterclaim. I love you enough to help you to that wincon.

@McGriddle, hopefully you were just trolling, but the quote I made is a generously edited version of Jahudo's preceding post, and not a quote at all.

Without the colors, you might assume that all the way up to Incognito could be "town" or that all the way down to Elmo was "scummy". It offers far more

information

on individuals the way he did it. [emphasis pops's]

teehee. That's the I word. Not the A word.

Except the way McGriddle has been behaving it upsets me more, compared to Elmo.

[popsofctown]

analysis.

[popsofctown]

Ectomancer, are you angry that dimes are smaller than nickels? I am.

Jw.

[popsofctown]

Maybe Patrick didn't vote because it would have holes in it. I know this is foreign to some people, but some people think that you don't have to vote just because your suspicion on someone is >0. It's symbolic of "I would not lynch this person if it were hammer time".

[popsofctown]

Oh there's a page 13? Geez leweez.

[popsofctown]

Did you combine a few posts? Because I hadn't noticed that post before, but it is definitely something to look in to.

He's altering Jahudo's post to make it look like that is what he "really" means. I don't like that either. In fact, I think it's pretty darn unnecessary and needlessly frustrating to make a post like that. pops is doing just about everything he can to completely reverse my earlier townread of him. Moreover, I don't even get the immediate swap to Jahudo, right after he got through telling us he was still comfortable with his SC case.

It was no different in function than quoting the post and explaining why it was scummy. It's just a more sarcastic method. How about you discuss whether or not my arguments are valid, rather than suggest I'm "meanie scum who uses sarcasm".

OH MY GOSH I DID IT AGAIN!!!!

Totally am comfortable with the case on Jahudo, but have become more comfortable with the case on Jahudo. I pressured SC, and he responded with a defense. Jahudo is under a little pressure and still refuses to take a defensive stance. Clearly he needs motivation.
[This bit is out of order. It was sitting on the clipboard, I forgot to add it to the other post]

Ectomancer, are you angry that dimes are smaller than nickels? I am.

Jw.

...well...I can only guess what you might be getting at.
If I were to hazard a guess at its meaning and formulate an answer, I would say that there is a vast difference between confronting your accusers head on and taking ineffective shots at their own "contribution".

What? Getting at?

I was seriously asking whether you are angry that dimes are smaller than nickels. It just doesn't make sense. Why would the US do that? It makes a serious difference when I'm fishing for change out of my wallet. The dimes get me closer to the hershey bar but the nickels are more prominent. It's rather infuriating.

Lol, next time I get attacked for posting fluff I'll say it makes other people post content so my karma is good.

I don't understand why Jahudo didn't really bother to defend himself from my vote and only seemed to do so only after receiving another vote from pops.

What's there to defend? The actual vote post didn't have anything to comment on or defend against.

Then at least say so

Without people sending the swat team. And you know I was talking about you too.

Coyote:

But I don't mind showing my work:

So this looks really similar to "not posting reasoning until asked to" (i.e. dragging it out of him, ZOMG) to me. Do you see where I'm going with this?

I do! I do! I do!

[popsofctown]

He's given up kinda early. Usually if I have an iffy claim I try to combine that with a defense rather than apologizing for my lynch like it's a foregone conclusion.

[popsofctown]

It is when you have players thinking that Jahudo said it. I mean, why not just post below the quote, pops? Conform to the norm.

The quote was directly underneath the source material. Only McGriddle could make the mistake of missing what I did there because he's a bit of a tonto.

Moreover, I didn't like it. The whole attack against Jahudo seems like you're trying to jump onto an ongoing sentiment to buy yourself credit rather than something you've been sincerely dwelling on. Like I said, I don't get where you are coming up with this idea that Jahudo was making a play for NabNab. It seems very artifical and concocted.

"it" here refers to my post. But then you start going on about me riding an "ongoing sentiment". Considering I was the very first person to make that post replying to Jahudo's, I think it's rather impossible that the ideas in that post weren't my own.

TBH, it probably seems "artificial and concocted" because that one's weak and I added it so the entire quote is parodified. Leaving much of it in its original form is kinda like having a poem where only 2 lines don't rhyme. You know?

Anyway, role cop is an odd role. I think it's entirely likely he's a mafia role cop who's claiming the role as town. Either way, it's not enough for me to want him in the game.

+1 cookies. Particularly with the whole. "oh, um actually goons show up as VT and mafia roleblockers and stuff show up as 'roleblocker'. Sorry guys, forgot to think about how it'd work if it was a town role."


I don't know what I think of Naba btw, besides his last few posts which aren't great. I'll reread him if you guys don't lynch him on your own, but it looks like y'all are going to.

[popsofctown]

Not gonna answer my currency question? Scum.

[popsofctown]

You ninja'ed me. Be fair.

[popsofctown]

I don't get Red, I'm finding him really confusing. I have the odd gut feeling where I don't like part of his posts, despite liking a lot of what he puts forward. It reminds me of Plum's posts in your last game, iamausername - don't know if you remember.

Huh, I'm getting pretty much the exact opposite. I disagree with a lot of what he's saying, but I'm getting a good gut feeling from him.

I've played a lot of games with iamausername and I'm just feeling him as town for the moment. He seems to be operating off his gut and speaking his mind without being hassled about essentially anything and I like that. I'm waiting for him to click into gear though, I suspect when he does that his alignment will be obvious to everyone, not just a gut read by me.

Shh! I'm trying to lull the scum into a false sense of security by coasting through the first day so they don't nightkill me and I can own them tomorrow.

pops. pops is the reasonable alternative.

You need to give more than this before the day ends. Seriously, I'll come up to bat for you against a player like Elmo, but you need to give the town more than this.

Oh alright. A little taster of the ownage I will be bringing tomorrow; here are some reasons why pops is a good alternative (Well, was. Post-claim, I don't think there is any reasonable alternative to hammering NabNab. Right away.)

Here is what pops has to say about Jahudo failing to respond to a single vote from Incog:

I'm gonna totally ignore people voting or attacking me, I'll just ride it out and hope others get more attention.

Here is what pops has to say about NabNab failing to respond to

five

votes, including mine which made a point of alerting everyone to the fact that NabNab was ignoring these votes:

This attack on Jahudo thus does not strike me as genuine.

Other things pops attacks Jahudo for:

- Giving scum reads without reasoning
- Giving town reads without reasoning
- Expressing conflicted feelings about the NabNab wagon

The first two points aren't totally inconsistent with pops' play up to now; he made the same rubbish attack on SerialClergyman earlier in the game, but still, if pops considers a lack of reasoning to be a major scum tell, it again seems odd that he's had very little to say about the NabNab wagon, which has been characterised by a distinct lack of stated reasoning.

Basically, the way pops has reacted, or rather

not

reacted, to the NabNab wagon seems to be totally at odds with the things he is attacking people for.

There's also this:

Without the colors, you might assume that all the way up to Incognito could be "town" or that all the way down to Elmo was "scummy". It offers far more

information

on individuals the way he did it. [emphasis pops's]

teehee. That's the I word. Not the A word.

Except the way McGriddle has been behaving it upsets me more, compared to Elmo.

pops trying to bring the Information Instead of Analysis tell to bear on McGriddle, not Elmo. a) It's another inconsistency in whether he considers something to be a tell or not, and b) it does not actually apply to McGriddle anyway. The point of the IIoA tell is that someone who is just giving a list of the game's events with no commentary, or something like that, is scummy. When the information in question is "who McGriddle thinks is scum/town", it's not Information Instead of Analysis, because that Information is, in fact, Analysis. Not very detailed Analysis, granted, but Analysis nonetheless.

---

Now somebody drop that hammer.

My attack on Jahudo is genuine. All I can say is I think it's good stuff, maybe you should read it again.

I don't know what anyone is attacking Nabakov for. I figured reasoning is there, but I'm too lazy to go look at it, or didn't get it first read through. I've said this before, I only feel that I owe a thread one readthrough when I commit to a game. If I saw a fallacious attack on Naba, I'd go to bat on it, but I didn't notice one. I can't complain that there aren't reasons for attacking him because I'm not sure there aren't any.


IioA is an excellent tell, but everything matters in context. In context of all of Elmo's play, taken together, I don't think it was a scumtell for her. If the previous posts were "Quit lurking Elmo" or "<a bunch of people with equal involvement in a game where contribution levels are a total nonissue>" or "<Elmo avoiding direct questions>" (she always seems to comply afaik) then the same exact post would be an issue but that wasn't the case.

McGriddle's rainbow wasn't very useful. A green name, wow, a player who may be scum or town thinks this guy is townish, I can't do a lot with that. It was definitely coming from a lurkery player who's contribution and involvement was under question. And it was definitely a lot easier to drop a couple paragraphs under that and explain the colors there.

I see analysis as an explanation of how various factors lead to a certain conclusion. "player X is scummy" is a statement of fact, I don't see that as analysis, I see it as information.

More importantly, "player X is scummy" is Information if you follow the spirit of IioA: trying to catch on to the issues scum have simulating real scumhunting, and how they relapse into posts that aren't a scumhunting process. Scum can print out a rainbow list all day, you can do it with a friggin random number generator if you want to. Townies can analyze.

[popsofctown]

I already explained my good stuff.


I don't have a read on naba naba, besides his last one or two posts. Other than that, pretty much null on him. Don't know where you get this massive naba gut read from.

[popsofctown]

That was six days ago. He did bug my gut back then, doesn't do so now. *shrug*

@McGriddle: confused your coloring with elmo's, from memory. I read the post.

[popsofctown]

i read the post....

[popsofctown]

Lol, I'm everyone's second choice for a lynch.

I think just everyone in the town feels like they are allowed to say that.

[popsofctown]

369 is really long


>_>
<_<

Doos I reeeeeally gotta read that? XD

[popsofctown]

374

Well it's kind of obvious that the way Goatrevolt commented on Elmo's alignment was totally out of line, and scummy too (If Nab flips scum, it's clearly the certainty tip. Even if he flips town, I think it still could be a certainty slip, because a townie would say Elmo is probtown and be unsure about his Nabkov read in the first place, it's more conceivable for scum to totally reverse the statement on Elmo's alignment rather than move it to the correct level of certainty. Gosh, I cannot be succinct today)

I don't think anyone in the town liked that, afaik, so I don't see how Goatrevolat is "popular" in that respect.



BTW guys, I almost wrote popsofctown on my World Religion exam for my name. I actually wrote the p. loooooool.

This post has been edited, and subsequent duplication posts have been deleted - Hoopla.

[popsofctown]

There was lots of strange computer failure that produced that.. Don't even remember attempting to quote that text.


It would be nice if Hoopla deleted all those dupes. The only unique part is the small snippet at the end.

374

Well it's kind of obvious that the way Goatrevolt commented on Elmo's alignment was totally out of line, and scummy too (If Nab flips scum, it's clearly the certainty tip. Even if he flips town, I think it still could be a certainty slip, because a townie would say Elmo is probtown and be unsure about his Nabkov read in the first place, it's more conceivable for scum to totally reverse the statement on Elmo's alignment rather than move it to the correct level of certainty. Gosh, I cannot be succinct today)

I don't think anyone in the town liked that, afaik, so I don't see how Goatrevolat is "popular" in that respect.



BTW guys, I almost wrote popsofctown on my World Religion exam for my name. I actually wrote the p. loooooool.

[popsofctown]

jerkl?

I had issues with the site and the computer. It gave me a weird message that I thought meant I hadn't submitted anything, apparently I had actually accidentally pasted some of the thread into my post and submitted it several times.

[popsofctown]

Elmo is town because he was the first to jump on Nabscum when Nab decided to push McGriddle. That's really unlikely to be busing.

You aren't allowed to be that certain unless it's modconfirmed.



Glad to hear you plan to straighten up Goatrevolt.
You and RC keep - butting heads- a lot. Not sure what to make of it. I get the feeling they have the same alignment. IMO players argue most fiercely and ferociously when that's the case, especially like this where both sides are like "you don't get my points!" "You don't get my points!" "*howl*" "*bleat*" BLOOD EVERYWHAR!

[popsofctown]

Vote Jahudo

Fence sitting isn't a scumtell. Posting a response to all these attacks that were pages and pages ago is laughable and just reveals you've been avoiding suspicion and trying to let it die down, like I've suggested.

[popsofctown]

Negating a premise does not always negate a conclusion. If a bean is yellow (recessive trait), it definitely had a yellow parent. If it is not yellow, it did not definitely not have a yellow parent.

So waiting for pressure to get so large to respond does show that he was avoiding suspicions.

Btw, do you really have to keep that avatar?

[popsofctown]

Goatrevolt's [weak sauce] reasons are independent of Nabakanov's alignment tbh. He's still hung up on the early game joke and thinks I was lying about not noticing an unvote, and doesn't like when I post fluff.

Wrong doesn't equal scum. GR doesn't scumhunt the way you would but he's trying as hard/harder than you are. Wouldn't you rather lynch a troll sleeping in the back of the nabakov haywagon?


What's worse is, right now, you don't think he's wrong. You think he's right, you're saying you like the target of the case. How on God's green earth can your honest read of the game be a goatrevolt/pops scumteam? Goatrevolt spawned, picked up a battlerifle, and started shooting me in the head since the moment this game started. That's not how bussing works. You know better than that.
Scum don't attack a teammate when they have better options.

And it's becoming most of your posts, goatrevolt goatrevolt goatrevolt. I don't think townRC can read the game this poorly.

You seem willing to do nothing but fight with goatrevolt all day, then just go with whatever wagon becomes necessary by the end of today, because you "don't like" every player (except the ones that wouldn't come up for a lynch anyway).

unvote, vote: RedCoyote

[popsofctown]

Goatrevolt's [weak sauce] reasons are independent of Nabakanov's alignment tbh.

Wouldn't be surprised if Serial or Pops or both are scum with Nab.

Nabakov tried to discredit part of my push against pops while also pushing pops himself for differing reasons, which is why I initially found him suspicious. As soon as the pops thing died out, Nabakov basically just kind of stopped putting any pressure on pops anymore.

Pops is also scum. I've already elaborated on the Pops/Nabakov interaction earlier in the day, and basically he's been pinging my gut over and over with things he's said.

This is a first for me. pops coming to bat for the player that just voted him, clarifying why it is Goat finds him scummy.

Don't let these little details get in the way of the show you and Goat have been putting on for us though.

How on God's green earth can your honest read of the game be a goatrevolt/pops scumteam? Goatrevolt spawned, picked up a battlerifle, and started shooting me in the head since the moment this game started. That's not how bussing works.

How does bussing work, pops?

Bussing works where about half a case builds on someone, then once it has 2 or 3 members, a scumbuddy decides whether or not that player will probably die whether or not he helps the lynch. If the lynch is going to happen either way, the scumbuddy joins the wagon and starts coming up with reasons and trying to make the lynch his own.
Putting me at such high risk for a lynch yesterday from the start of D1 makes no sense for scumGoat and scumPops, and I know you're better than this. I haven't seen you this off-base since nonny's game. You at least made sense in Crossfire.

[popsofctown]

The problem is that when you do post

My feelings haven't really changed. I still think pops looks scummy. I don't really like the Nabakov wagon, except for one point that I do like.

Besides that I have bad feelings about Goat and Patrick, I'll elaborate if I think they're scummy or just playstyle things I've noticed. Ima, Ecto and Red look pretty town.

It's active lurkringrish.

Also I have bad feelings about Incog, but I haven't yet figured out why. I'll let you know if I do.

Zeez bad feeliks you haff, are zey from ze stomack or zee liveer?

Haha, I <3 Elmo.

You can call this post a waste of space, but it's no more a waste of space than the quoted material tbh.

[popsofctown]

Pressure always increases the danger someone will be lynched. The more they are forced to defend themselves, the more likely they are to slip up and say something wrong. Scum Do Not Wish to Post, so pressuring me D1 created danger, even if it was impossible to cut off discussion and wagon me based purely on the RVS stage tell.

Why is the interaction suspicious? Would you have me vote Goat or believe in a Goat-Pops pairing Ectomancer? I have the same read SC and Incognito have of Goat, and the one you seem to. How is my play more consistent with scumPops townGoat than it is with townPops townGoat?

[popsofctown]

Pressure always increases the danger someone will be lynched. The more they are forced to defend themselves, the more likely they are to slip up and say something wrong. Scum Do Not Wish to Post, so pressuring me D1 created danger, even if it was impossible to cut off discussion and wagon me based purely on the RVS stage tell.

This is a load of hooey. I don't know any veteran players who can't talk or handle pressure. If we were to believe this tripe, we could simply lynch from the bottom of the post count list.

Such a method would outperform random lynches, but not outperform random lynches as well as more traditional scumhunting.

[popsofctown]

You can call this post a waste of space, but it's no more a waste of space than the quoted material tbh.

That's not fair! You like fluff, so Elmo gets points that we don't get.

Mhm. That just means you have to try harder.

Let me try it again for you Goat. You're little interaction with Red and Pop's over bussing was a load of cow poo. Where did the stink come from? Was it you? I don't think it was, and it wasn't Red.
The bussing accusation was leveled at you, not Pops. Yet Pops is the one to come in and give that double team on Red. The whole string of posts there just smacked of false bluster with bad talking points.
Once again, was that you I'm smelling?
Why would Pops be suspicious? His posts reinforce the notion that there could be a link between you. Is there? If not, why would that impression be there? Did you try to give it? Why would a town Pop's try to give that impression? Town Pop's wouldn't.
You don't see it? It's not supposed to be seen. It's meant to be felt by a tugging on your gut based upon that interaction. Only thing is, I buy your meta reasoning and I've played with you enough to think I know that much. So I don't buy the bussing argument. I

do

buy that scumPop's would want to play up that supposed link while publicly dismissing it.

So, let's flip this Goat. You tell me instead why a townPop's would post in a manner that would create

more

suspicion?

Now, you can disagree on whether he did it on purpose if you want (or whether you think he has the skill). In that case, you don't see what I see. But don't tell me I don't have a reason just because you don't see it.

Wow, this might be the worst circular logic I've ever seen in a mafia game.

1. I propose Pops' behavior was suspicious
2. It was suspicious because scumPops is more likely to do it than townPops.
3. scumPops would defend a townie.
4. Townpops would not defend a townie because it is suspicious. See (1).
5. Why is it's suspicious? see 2-4.

unvote, vote: Ectomancer

for circular logic, and seeming to be the most insincere of the votes on my wagon. That weird fluffery stuff about Elmo earlier wasn't impressive either.


also

I am resorting to sarcasm as an outlet for frustration

lol

[popsofctown]

1. I propose Pops' behavior was suspicious
2. It was suspicious because scumPops is more likely to do it than townPops.
3. scumPops would defend a townie.
4. Townpops would not defend a townie because it is suspicious. See (1).
5. Why is it's suspicious? see 2-4.

unvote, vote: Ectomancer

for circular logic, and seeming to be the most insincere of the votes on my wagon. That weird fluffery stuff about Elmo earlier wasn't impressive either.

Next time try not making such an obviously bullshit breakdown. 3-5 you pulled out of your ass, definitely not out of this thread

I'll chat about Elmo when it is time to chat about Elmo. If you want to try chatting about Elmo, then speak to Elmo about his non-chatting yourself.

@Incognito - over this? Oh geez, so sorry. Hey, why did you give a reasonless vote on Jahudo like Elmo did there?

vote jahudo

:goodvoting:

vote: Jahudo

Goatrevolt, I'm not sure I understand your Ectomancer-FoS. Explain?

As an aside, killing Patrick during N1 is soooooo last year.

After that, you didn't make any PbP, or anything else that I saw needed commenting on. You talked at Jahudo. I already stated that Jahudo is on the town side for me, so yeah, I pretty much ignored Elmo and then your vote too. Was there some fresh exciting breakthrough you made? I sure didn't see it.

What #3 is supposed to be is "do the scummy behavior". I was defending a player you have a town read on in the post you voted me for, but no, you didn't specifically say that.
5 is accurate. You're explanation for why I am suspicious is that "if pops were town, he would not make me feel suspicious". That is ABsolutely circular, no two ways about it. I asked you to explain your hard to understand suspicions and you replied with circular logic. I'm gonna vote someone who took a seat in the scum numbered space on a mislynch wagon with justification solely based in circular logic 10 times out of 10.

[popsofctown]

@pops - Your strawman is so far out there that I don't even know what you are talking about. You are scummy because you defended a townie? That's news to me.
You're scummy because in a situation where there was no suspicion before you and Goat's spate of posting, your intervention lent credence to the idea that there

could be

some sort of bussing going on. TownPops wouldn't do that on purpose.
You already had good pressure going on you, and so a drowning man approach at that point would make sense. You do a sloppy defense, reinforcing that bussing idea, then when you turn up scum, people are predisposed to lynching Goat and testing the idea.
So. When you turn up scum, rather than supporting the bussing idea, I'm pre-emptively saying that I think it far more likely to be a townGoat than bussing going down.

My very last post emphasized that that part wasn't even important. Are you even reading what I post?

You're logic is still crappy. At worst it's circular, at best I can't make heads or tails of it and it seems to involve confirmation bias which you claim wouldn't exist. What are you saying? That townPops would be like "oh, I shouldn't post this, I might make it look like Goatrevolt is bussing"?


@Goatrevolt: There's been an astounding amount of stairstepping scumminess D2. I voted Jahudo as a holdover from yesterday mostly, then Redcoyote made a post that absolutely reeked, then Ectomancer made one that was even worse than that. And that moved my vote around. In a way, it is sort of logical: empricially scum tend to be on the later slots of the wagon, and perhaps I'm seeing worse and worse reasons for voting me from people in the weakest, me-tooish phases of the wagon.

Yeah, the vote tally matches my scum meta. I'd say it's coincidence. Usually the sort of voting that happens when I'm scum is "lol you talked about this guy all day and I didn't comment much but I'll hammer for ya", like Vi called me on in Phate's Large game. Incognito you were in that one right? Was a long time ago, I'm not sure.

[popsofctown]

Looked it up it was Mafia 89: Revenge

[popsofctown]

Bleh. Stop persuading me about RC, SC. And your own alignment as well.

[popsofctown]

Well, chyeah, that's a fair defense when your attack was basically "I read your posts, they're bad".


Jahudo's responses to the points were actually decent, I didn't have any contest to the response themselves. I don't comment on the positives when I want someone lynched, it's counterproductive.

[popsofctown]

i kind of hate the term "easy wagon" in general.

[popsofctown]

Ectomancer needs a lot more devils smileys.

[popsofctown]

I said I had bad feelings about you, and I wasn't confident enough to reveal until I was brought under pressure to reveal them.

Am I reading that right? Sounds like practically a scumclaim. You need pressure to reveal your reads? what?

[popsofctown]

Uh, GR, he has a hunch on me, and he's been tunneling me since. I'd call that aggressive.

[popsofctown]

Are you saying you're ready to hammer me Red?

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote Jahudo

We have six days until deadline. I'll claim when we have... eh... 3 days until deadline. I don't want to claim because my wagon is stupid and since it's stupid I'm hoping that the people voting on it realize how stupid they are being and how short their paragraphs are when they summarize the reasons for voting me.

And hopefully ectomancer realizes "oh noes, I'll get in trouble for lynching pops because my vote was totally random and opportunistic and I could get lynched then and what would my friends do without their godfather??"

Got the votes on Jahudo yet? That whole argument is a darn hairsplit. The people arguing for Jahudoscum weren't people who wouldn't hammer Jahudo and so weren't voting him, they were people who needed to use their votes for other things. It is like saying that I am not a ninja because I am using my katana to cut vegetables. I'm still a ninja. I'm just busy cutting vegetables.

@McGriddle: You said you were voting me because you expected more leadership out of me when I'm town aligned. Well what about now? I've been one of the first to attack Jahudo and now others are with me. I've been pretty active day 2. Are you sure you haven't changed your mind?

And I'm sorry I remembered yellow as green or green as yellow. But I think townies do that to if a post was a page ago. Do you want to consider unvoting?

[popsofctown]

You haven't figured out IAU's guerilla tactics plan yet? Post content in small bursts so no one notices you're behind the curve, tunnel and ignore discussing 3/4s of the thread, and pick popular targets that make you lots of freyends.


Jah, here is my massive superstrong omgiNOESthisguys is scum gutread on Nabakov that required IMMEDIATE action, could NOT BE SHAKEN, and shalt not change.

So Incognito called for more content from me, which is fair, I'm a little behind the curve on content. It's honestly because I'm seeing lots of town this game, I keep checking the thread, seeing town, not posting, and then LoL tells me a match has been found, but my teammate picked Katarina so it's autoloss anyway.

I had to reread ISOs and the thread before I could find much of anything to point fingers at, but I did find a string of stuff I didn't like from SerialClergyman. (I also hate Nabanab as much as everyone else seems to, but it's been gut and I don't get the articulated reasons atm).

I mean, really guy? What's worse is that the whole argument is that I'm scummy because I didn't want to lynch a townie. Really? And that's your case, that's it. V weak.

I think you're scum because you tested out the fluffpost attack on me to see how far it could go when I know you should know better from Mafia Jailbreak, then cancelled it. + your lurking. You're lurking too much to be scum? Too scummy to be scum? Lol. That's silly.

And also you did a lot of clarifying instead of actual scumhunting D1. You would just quote stuff and say "what do you think about this or that", weren't really breaking down fences in what little posting you did. And then there was some waffliness. You seemed a bit too ambidextrous with respect to several players, and seemed prepped to go either way.

And now you're adhomming. Come on now, I'm at L-1, you aren't the one who's gotta bring out your switchblade. If I waffled, then it's something that people from a diff PoV from me should count against me because waffling is globally correlated with the scum alignment. If I see you waffling, it also raises the chance that you are scum from any PoV but your own. Let's not be fallacious, attack the argument, not the player. And if the argument is valid, don't conclude the player is scummy for making valid arguments.

[popsofctown]

Where's your day 2 mislynch? Unless you are accusing me of trying to wagon Patrick day 2, you can't use that argument. How the sam hill are you gonna appeal to your own town flip to defend yourself? You're being absolutley ridiculous.

A question for all; if you were scum, how would we tell?

I <3 bussing.

Other than that, I don't really know, apparantly I am a bad scum though so this being an experienced game, you would probably know by the end of the day whether I was scum or not lol.

Is that part of your playstyle that you mention in Post 22? I don't think I've played with you before.

Also, your post count seems to indicate you're not a newbie so why would you put down your play?

Stuff like this shouldn't count as a post. I'm not gonna pick out every bit of your posting that is just clarification and not strong content.

Lurking is secondary it's not the main point, the main thing is what a waffle you are.

[popsofctown]

Sorry. That quote was pulled from ISO, I didn't know what page it was on. It was the only post I could find that was entirely clarification. Most of his posts would be half clarification, half content.

Lastly, he doesn't believe in his latest Jahudo vote. I don't know if we can blame him for being opportunistic and following orders, but I think pops is stretching himself too thin on Jahudo. He wants to appear as though he's giving Jahudo an honest shake, but his hands are tied. I don't think pops really sees scum in Jahudo, and I don't think he ever did. If he ever did, it was something that pinged his gut once, and he's been sort of limply going along with it to appease Elmo, Goat, and Incog ever since.

No, I don't believe so strongly in my latest Jahudo vote. And you know that you can't blame me for being opportunistic and following orders. And you know I have to give Jahudo an honest shake to see if I can get a counterwagon to happen on him so I can survive today.

If he ever did, it was something that pinged his gut once, and he's been sort of limply going along with it to appease Elmo, Goat, and Incog ever since.

This... you put it inside a "case". But this hypathetical situation is townPops. Scumpops doesn't have his gut pinged at all. Why is this in your case?

I'm feeling yet again like you know better, and are pretending not to know better, and am worried about your alignment once again.


I'd be much happier voting Ectomancer or RedCoyote, but I have to choose a counterwagon that is viable.

[popsofctown]

Where are Goat and Red leaning on a top suspect at the moment? Besides each other if that's still the case in any way.

Because of my reasons yesterday, and the fact that nab and pops couldn't have been working together at all.

Vote: Pops

What do you mean "working together"?

Here's another one. There's stuff like that. That's the "backgroundish" stuff. He's as bad as IAU if you take that stuff out.

My feelings haven't really changed. I still think pops looks scummy. I don't really like the Nabakov wagon, except for one point that I do like.

Besides that I have bad feelings about Goat and Patrick, I'll elaborate if I think they're scummy or just playstyle things I've noticed. Ima, Ecto and Red look pretty town.

Jahudo requested an opportunity to view his waffling again so here it is.

[popsofctown]

If he was a cop or similar he'd have claimed by now.

Falso.


I haven't finished reading the thread, but thought I'd give you guys more time to mull over my claim. I'm a weak doctor. Goatrevolt is town, unless I got roleblocked or bus driven or what have you.

You guys really need to quit power role hunting and start scumhunting. Self-preservation tells just kill your power roles. This same retarded thing happened to me in Majora's Mask Mafia when I got two instant daykills and a mask that made me a cop. Sigh...............

Thread needs a lot less fail.

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still havent fully checked the thread, hanging out with buds. Figured you'd want to know why I protected GR.


When Incog mentioned a game that revolved around Weak Doctors and Hiders early in the game, I jumped on it as an opportunity to breadcrumb. I then made a post that mentioned hypoclaiming is good, and then used the word twilight 3 times.


At the end of Day 1 Patrick snuggled the hammer in his post and I missed it. So although I intended to do first letter of each word crumbing in twilight to be noticed if I die protecting, i only had a one normal post posted in twilight, primarily directed at GR. Since the twilight twilight twilight post might have been caught, I figured someone might interpret that to be my hypoclaim, so I went ahead and made sure my night action matched the hypoclaim.

Scummy and townish targets for weak doctoring both have pretty good returns, so it was nbd. You can chain together several conf innocents if you target a townish target, or nail an early scum if it's a scummy target. And if it is a townish target you can save them from death. So i felt it was certainly worth it to make sure my actions matched my crumbs.

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I can't remember if i genuinely couldn't remember at all, or was half sure and made you remind me so i could breadcrumb.

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We are massclaiming? What is this I don't even....

If Ectomancer really is a one shot vig, then that means Goatrevolt was actually targetted for the kill last night. (probably) . Take from that what you will, I don't actually see use in that info.

unvote, vote McGriddle

He's simply practically not here and has a bad Ivoting record. I don't know what I get from his posts themselves. (my meta on him from precision mafia is pretty antitown already]

I wouldn't assume scum was on the Nabnab wagon for sure. Stupidity is cheap. This is coming from someone who wasn't on it.

[popsofctown]

I approve of massclaim.


GR, you yourself has pointed out we have LOTS of town power. A roleblocker or bus driver from the scum is pretty darn likely, so my ability to investigate is very hampered. Yeah, if two people die then that's nice, but if I'm declaring my target to the scums two people won't die. They get choices too.


My intended night action as of now is to protect GR, IAU, or Jahudo. If there's a double death it should be assumed that IAU or Jahudo falseclaimed.

[popsofctown]

I could have investigated if I didn't have to claim. This is why you all should have listened to Elmo.

[popsofctown]

Well, he said ANY other player soz i'm gonna do elmo a favor.



Hey ectomancer why'd you kill Patrick N1?

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Noting that said you "claim" VT as if it might be contrary to fact.


See I can write incomplete sentences too.

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My play was good. I defended myself a lot. You all are idiots who can't read me.

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I prefer blood on the ground GR. McGriddle or RC, whichever.

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RC it's popcorn.

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Yes. The order matters.


You're a delinquent.

I choose McGriddle on your behalf.

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He just romps in his own confirmedness and tells everyone he'll claim last. So surefooted.

[popsofctown]

He's not, he's just less likely to be readable in subsequent days.

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The McGriddle-RC scumteam is as blatantly obvious as the purple tux I wore to prom.

McGriddle made a claim that put the amount of power roles at critical mass last page. This page, RC does not directly address it. Instead he continues bickering with Goatrevolt. He never had an epiphany about GR or anything when GR became conf-town, he just keeps on bickering. It wasn't a change for him I guess, he already knew GR was town.

If RedCoyote was town, he would be voting McGriddle and casting doubt on the claim. If he was scum with someone besides McGriddle, he would be voting McGriddle and casting doubt on the claim. Redcoyote's refusal to be practical at all and do anything but wall post pillowfight with Goatrevolt is not consistent with a townie trying to make sure the best lynch happens today, it's scum trying to paint a picture.


I don't believe McGriddle's claim at all. It's the one PR too many, it is not very elegant with the roles we have revealed. (rolecop discovers that there are two vigs? Discovers that there's a one shot vig and an even night vig?) Unlike GR, I wouldn't put such silliness past him. In Precision mafia he was flippant as well. He claimed his power role out of the blue with zero pressure. McGriddle does not feel like a player who takes the game so seriously to me. Claiming VT at the end of the day isn't nearly as interesting as claiming even night vig.

I'm fine with lynching RC as well though

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HEY INCOGNITO WHATS UP DUDE

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Does anyone have experience with toasting waffles? I put a waffle in the toaster and it kind of fell apart and then I had to turn the toaster upside down to get the pieces out

Ectomancer, you're up! Explain how you don't feel you have been waffling in this game

[popsofctown]

Red - what do you think about McGriddle's claim?

It's probably true. There's not much in the way of reading a lurker I don't think. McGriddle, although he had a good excuse, stayed completely inactive for almost the entire game.

Even if it isn't true, I think it's the most confirmable PR claim we have.

He didn't have a reason to lurk D1. And I see his decision not to replace out as a scumtell. As town, he can't pursue his wincon from the hospital, as scum it only makes him more unreadable, so he doesn't replace out.

How is it so easily confirmed? What with super likely roleblocker, a weak doc, me having an alternate way to die, and scum getting to decide shoot or no shoot? And there's Ectomancer the SK too. He will

cut

you.

[popsofctown]

look, if all theses claims are true, i have to imagine something very powerful on the scum side.

Maybe like, they get one extra kill during one of the nights.

Or can daytalk to come up with synchronized fakeclaim shenanigans.

I doubt that all the claims are true and that all the scum lie in the VT claims.

[popsofctown]

It's the masons. McGriddle, please shoot the masons.



@goatrevolt: my pm has tiny bits of flavor.

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The setup does not work if I am the power role that is lying guys.


2 Masons
Even vig
Odd vig
Vanillas
Scums

If I'm not weak doctor,

what prevented the mafia kill last night

. You think scum nokilled just to set this up? That's not good play. There could have been another town preventetive role, which would leave me unconfirmed, or there could have been cops and vigs (doh, there were vigs) that would have caused a nokill night to make the mafia lose a whole lot of ground.

If you think I'm scum, you have to think Ectomancer is scum and that mafia killed Patrick. And I just don't think that pairing works right now at all.


Come friggin on guys this game isn't hard.

[popsofctown]

It's the masons. McGriddle, please shoot the masons.

Why not lynch us today, if you're so sure? Is it because you don't want this to be settled before lylo, because you know when we flip town, it will be obvious that you are scum?

because deadline is here and I'm not sure the town can pull it together. But ectomancer's odd night claim has made me sure.

[popsofctown]

I am all for the SC wagon. He was going to be my nightkill because I was pretty suspicious of him. I didn't have a lot of time to post my case against Red, but I still think SC is more likely scum. So my top 2 in order are SC and Red. If we lynch SC I will not kill red tonight though, that would not help me at all as if he knows I will kill him then that defeats the purpose of even trying beause I will be RB'd. Unvote, Vote: SerialClergyman Let's see what happens. I am fine with either of the 2, I just don't want to be the majority as I fear being mislynched on an accident

Just for those of you who are counting, Red and Griddle are my top suspects. If this doesn't greatly justify their deaths, I don't know what will.

Griddle - you know that it doesn't matteri f they know your target or not to roleblock you. Promise me that if I get lynched, you'll kill Red.

Think he was using roleblock as a generic term for all bus driving, mafia doctoring, mafia jailkeeping, etc

[popsofctown]

I'm protecting Goatrevolt tonight. So if I die, consider that perhaps I was roleblocked N1 but not N2.

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote iamausername

hiss and roar.

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Tbh McGriddle I don't think you should be honset about your intended night target at all.


It doesn't take any crazy night theory at all to realize the masons are scum tbh. They are two scummy players protecting eachother with their claims. It would take crazy night theory to argue they aren't scummy, but based on the setup they are not believable.

They are quite possibly scum masons. Hoopla was in Zoraster's Caught in the Crossfire, and it had scum masons, and we both reported enjoying the role. Scum masons would be quite a fun interaction with a role cop. It says their ROLE: they are masons. You still have to figure out if one or the other is town or scum to determine the other's alignment.

[popsofctown]

SC, address 783 if you are going to keep posting.

[popsofctown]

good modding.

[popsofctown]

I cared about the game.

[popsofctown]

I keep thinking "Patrick Starr" when i see his posts.