Mini 909: Nice'n'Fun Mafia (Game Over)

[hitogoroshi]

Confirm. Glad to see a mod with a sense of humor.

Also, I'm going to be leaving MN at ~7am CST on Friday, which means I should be in Nebraska ~4pm. I could potentially not post at all Friday depending on how I feel when I get back. Just a little warning there.

[hitogoroshi]

Hate to spam up the thread pre confirming, but:

Travel is currently not advised in all of western Iowa, counties along the I-35 corridor, and parts of east central Iowa due to very treacherous road conditions and blowing snow. The Iowa State Patrol has issued a tow ban for the affected areas.

Seeing as the I-35 corridor and western Iowa are what's known as 'the route one uses to get from Minnesota to Nebraska', I'm going to be here for now and I'll be disappearing more or less by surprise (later today? tomorrow?) for a day or so sometime soon here. I'll make sure to post right before I'm out the door - sadly, it's looking like it'll sync up depressingly well with the start of the game. Sorry!

[hitogoroshi]

hito update, I'll be leaving at 5am tomorrow and arriving at Nebraska god knows when. I'll post right before I go if it's open, and whenever I make it to college on Saturday, so the delay shouldn't be too grievous.

p.s, mafia weatherman would be the best role ever. Make it happen.

[hitogoroshi]

hey I'm here surprisingly early. also I am extremely tired, and I am deliberately refraining from capitalizing and using punctuation in this sentence to make my internet voice sound how my real voice sounds right now

What goes in to everyone's decisions when they decide on their Day 1 lynch candidate?

Unless there's a really strong scum tell that pops up d1, I'm generally up for lynching the most anti-town person (non-contributor, person who frequently side-tracks town, etc). This obviously doesn't correlate completely with who is scum but it helps to find scum on later days. Basically, the defense "x isn't helping the town, but I don't think it's scummy" doesn't fly with me D1 (and to be fair, doesn't fly with me in most situations, but especially not D1.)

also,

vote: quagmire

, because presumably when you die I will no longer have to look at your avatar.

[hitogoroshi]

but to speak for The Tracker like angel is doing here could point to

treesaw defending

or possibly buddying?

Great typo or greatest typo?

Please tell me why you think a joke, in particular one in RVS, can be a strong scumtell.

Scumslips in the RVS do happen; things like that are why we have the RVS. That being said, I'm not too inclined to think of this as a scumslip. After all, a quicklynch would be mistaken this early in the game, so I suppose you could call it a 'mislynch' even without knowing that I'm going to flip town. I'm not going to suspect tracker of being scum because I think he KNOWS I'm going to flip town, just based off of that one comment.

However:

Calling it a joke or whatever is wrong.

Are you implying that you are serious in thinking mindgamer is 'obvscum'?

[hitogoroshi]

What? I was just asking for clarification because your 'not a joke' comment seemed to imply you had cast a non-random vote. Not every request for clarification is "pressure for your mislynch", and if you're going to interpret them as such this is going to be a long game.

[hitogoroshi]

I can see what you mean, now. i missed the fact it was

mislunch

and not lynch. I still feel you acted strongly so early on.

Mod: please rename thread to 'Mini 909: Hilarious Typo Mafia'

hi im here

nothing to say?

+1

Vote: The Tracker

He's overreacting to the small amount of pressure on him. So I want to see what happens if there's just a little more.

Protip: Pressure voting doesn't work if you call it pressure voting.

Additionally,

unvote, vote: quagmire

[hitogoroshi]

Oh, sorry mod! I totally forgot I was already voting quagmire because I keep my RVS-votes and real votes in separate parts of my head.

Also,

mod: you have mindgamer instead of quagmire in the 'not voting' block.

You saw nothing. >_> -

Cruciare

Hoopla, are you going to offer any opinions of your own on the actual game? All you've had to offer so far has been questions that either belong in MD or are totally irrelevant (thinking of that question about the Saudi Gazette).

At first I chalked it up to a different way to RVS but the more it keeps happening the more I agree with you. Hey Hoopla, you can have a period instead of a question mark at the end of your sentences. Trust me, it'll survive even without the squiggly hat.

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, I think a lot of people here are normally heavy posters but it's hard to be one when none of our initial leads seemed to stick and we're more or less back at square one.

You know what would get some activity back in to this game? A quagmire wagon.

Let's make this happen, guys and gals.

[hitogoroshi]

Why are you so intent on Quagmire? Or was it a joke?

I just want to get a wagon going. I picked Quagmire because he dropped in twice (and a third time in between these posts) to say 'Hey, I have nothing to say.' (Though especially after his latest post one could do say the same about Flare.)

Really I'm up for just about anyone, but if no one is going to give a better target (as appears to be the case!) I'm keeping my vote on Quagmire and encourage you all to do the same.

Come on, don't you want to give him something worth commenting on?

[hitogoroshi]

You are more than welcome to suspect someone else. But this game is hitting severe doldrums, and it's because everyone's waiting for something to happen and no one is making something happen. If you don't want to join the quagmire wagon, start your own, but don't just sit and wait for something to happen because we have a game full of that right now and this wad of nothing is the result.

[hitogoroshi]

So you're saying that you're not going to join the quagmire wagon, or start a wagon? So you're just going to sit here and do nothing...?

[hitogoroshi]

hito seems to be saying, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, that Quagmire is a good wagon because of his stubborn lack of contribution, despite posting three times.

Nailed it. There are quite a few others who I'd be almost as happy wagoning, but Quagmire rose to the top of the pack when it was my pick.

The fact I am currently alone voting quagmire depresses me to no end. It seems like you understand why I voted Quagmire, RC, so why aren't you joining me?

And as for Hoopla, I also normally dislike early claims but Miller is an exception. Millers generally don't know they're millers, mostly for this exact situation coming up when they do. While I'm also keen to hear her thought process if you just think about it for a second it's harder to think of good reasons NOT to claim miller if you know you are one.

[hitogoroshi]

As the mod wrote in the rules: never try to outguess the mod. Doesn't end well.

Could it be a scum fakeclaim? Absolutely, but here's the catch - millers, unlike most PR claims, have no powers beyond that of a VT. As such, unlike most fakeclaims, we're not hanging a whole lot on it. When someone claims cop, we have to decide on them because

we also need to decide on their results.

That's not the case here. If you think Hoopla is scum later, vote her. If you think she's town, don't. In essence, you can feel free to treat Hoopla exactly as you would a normal townie, with the sole exception that she doesn't have the possibility of being a useful PR. Her claim amounts to, in essence, "If we have a cop, you're wasting your time investigating me."

It also does have the effect that it makes her less likely to be NK'd if she's town, because the scum will know she can't possibly be a PR. But in my last game with her she was very pro-town and ended up getting NK'd n1, so I'm not too depressed with how this ended up. I'm inclined to treat this as a fairly good town tell, because she's taking a strong tool out of the scumbox (fakeclaiming) in exchange for what would be an incredibly small benefit (making the Miller claim seem more legit if a cop investigated scum-Hoopla.)

[hitogoroshi]

Hey, mafiascum is winking in and out of existence for me so I'm not going to have supporting quotes here. Sorry!

Flare, you never answered why you felt it necessary to put your vote back where it was when you had assigned it as part of the RVS.

Quagmire, still no vote?

Haven't seen cathart or mindgamer since the miller claim.

As for the role pm thing, that's gonna have to wait on quag posting on whether or not that's the case here. I think I'd be up for lynching him d1 if it's the case - no associative tells if he's scum, and I certainty don't get a vibe of 'contributes so much content it's worth it to keep him around' from him. But I'll read that thread Hoopla posted in full before I make a judgment, because the idea of not reading a role pm is one that simply hasn't occurred to me until now.

[hitogoroshi]

I think I might agree with you, flare, but I do know that the matter deserves more discussion than just 'facepalm.' I'll have to wait until tomorrow when the site will (hopefully) be a bit less finicky and I can read that whole thread and mull a bit on it.

Also - if we do in fact policy lynch quagmire, that would a.) cut d1 a little short for my liking and b.) be the LAST thing we discuss today - meaning that I expect everyone to weigh in on this one.

[hitogoroshi]

Policy lynching is wonderful and fantastic and full of sunshine rainbows, Nacho. As I said I need to consider whether this specific case merits it, but to say that policy lynching itself is wrong is itself wrong. If you think it's disagreeable why didn't you bring it up on page 2 when multiple players (myself, cyberbob, RC) all mentioned that it is a factor we consider when picking a D1 lynch candidate?

[hitogoroshi]

If you think it's disagreeable why didn't you bring it up on page 2 when multiple players (myself, cyberbob, RC) all mentioned that it is a factor we consider when picking a D1 lynch candidate?

[hitogoroshi]

Sorry for the day off, it was hard to get motivation for gameposting with the site crapping out and a certain GD thread taking my attention when the site did load.

Policy lynching is wonderful and fantastic and full of sunshine rainbows, Nacho. As I said I need to consider whether this specific case merits it, but to say that policy lynching itself is wrong is itself wrong. If you think it's disagreeable why didn't you bring it up on page 2 when multiple players (myself, cyberbob, RC) all mentioned that it is a factor we consider when picking a D1 lynch candidate?

I didn't think that it'd come up day 1. The playerlist was not really policy lynch worthy.

This isn't the point. If you disagree with people who policy lynch, why didn't you say anything when multiple players said they would be up for a policy lynch D1 on the second page? Why wait until Quagmire specifically is named as a potential target?

I don't feel as though it's your role to observe the game, but to play it along side us. It's probably sounding a bit like a broken record, but none of us here need to lecture you about the necessity of participation. I'm especially curious to hear you ask questions and provoke other players, not just pop up and say, "have I commented on everything? k, l8r."

Your post 112 is a good example of what I don't want to see. The basis of the question is terrific, but it's asked from a position of weakness and nonchalance. What I mean by that is, like, okay, you spent two seconds looking at the latest vote count, but why not go deeper with it? Why not go back to Flare's latest post, Cyberbob, or Nacho, and ask them about the post with which they voted? If you think the reasoning is weak (you've said it yourself that you've seen nothing scummy so far), maybe you should tell them why it is they're getting overly excited. I'd be happy to see Quagmire v.s. cruelty over The Tracker wagon.

Again, I don't want to come across as patronizing, because I know you're aware of all of this. I honestly just want to see you play the game with us. I feel completely shortchanged at this point.

This is truth. I can totally appreciate Quagmire's point that he'll be contributing towards the town D1, but it comes at a significant, significant cost to the town.

Regarding the rest of RC's post: I'm not sure if I'm willing to call Flare's 'flighty hops' scummy and not just newbie, but it's really worth a meta read so I'll get on that.

How many times do I have to explain this before people understand it? No matter what I am, I am working towards my win condition. If I'm town, I am actively scumhunting and finding scum (even though it may not seem as such so far, as I haven't found much, but I am). If I'm scum, I'm spending day one actively scumhunting, and that goes an incredibly long way for me for future days. The latter is the same situation if I'm third-party.

So therefore not reading my role PM advances my win condition in all three ways,

therefore it is a pro-whatever-side-I'm-on move.

For today, it's pro-town. Any attempt from here on out to try and manipulate this position as anti-town in the manner Hoopla just did I will consider absurd and I'm not even going to take the time to respond to it. Unless you're just disagreeing with me and want to ask me about it some more.

The part in red is the part where you and I stop agreeing. You're in a situation where you are looking for scum regardless of alignment D1, but that does NOT mean your actions are in the towns best interests. It's especially odd that Nacho is the one arguing we should 'treat him as town d1, and throw out our d1 reads d2' because he's going to be my counter-example.

Remember Open 185, Nacho? Do you remember what ended up being one of the main factors to your scum victory - the fact that your slot hadn't posted for a game day-and-a-half? Imagine if Qooq had been there after kyle's quickhammer, or before the kyle wagon was certain. You can imagine how it would have made it harder for you to win, yes? So why is it that you're allowing Quagmire the SAME thing? Because for alignment purposes, Quagmire is not posting D1 at all. I would lynch someone who never posted for all of D1, because I want to take easily readable players into endgame and a big part of easily readable is 'has posted a lot and commented on everyone.' The thing is, no matter how much he's contributed, Quagmire is

indistinguishable

from that player who's lurked all of D1. He's told us 'No matter what I do here, it's independent of my alignment. I am going to alignment-lurk all of D1.'

As a example, let's say you're Cyberbob and really suspect Tracker. You think Tracker is scum, based off of his posts. So you should lynch Tracker, right? Not so fast.

If you lynch Tracker, you're left with Quagmire D2 who you have absolutely NO reads on. What do you do? It's likely you suspect at least one player who's actually alignment-posted more than the neutral that is Quagmire. In fact, if Quagmire is in fact scum, you're going to have a much harder time reading him (which is the prinicple point of this maneuver.)

But let's say you lynch Quagmire D1. You're left with Tracker D2, who you already think is scum. But the thing is, you'll have TWO days worth of reads when it comes time to make the lynch decision. If he's as obvscum as you think he will be, he'll do even MORE scummy things d2 and it'll be easy to lynch him. If he suddenly starts seeming less scummy - then you can make the call whether you were mistaken with your D1 read or if tracker-scum just improved his game (night talk with an experienced player? If tracker flips scum d2 you know where to aim d3.)

The point is, there is simply more INFORMATION in the second scenario. Quagmire has already said he is denying the town information regarding his slot's alignment. You guys seem to think we should simply let him play with this large advantage, but I don't particularly want to drag an slot I know so much less about with me. And if we're going to lynch a slot we don't have information on, the best time to do that is the lynch that we're making with the least information on - the day one lynch.

[hitogoroshi]

Also, if you'd like to talk about alignment lurking... Chaco lurked all through day 1. Drowmage lurked all through day 1. Had you policy lynched both of them, there would be no paper trail, and you'd already be down 3 townies, and 1 tracker. You don't lynch null-reads on day 1; you let them get replaced. And in a sense, Quagmire will be replaced Day 2 by a player that actually knows their role.

As for your second point, that can go either way. We know Quagmire's play will be different tomorrow, so why not lynch Tracker today and Quagmire tomorrow? Then we're lynching scummy over anti-town both times. Also, I hate when people try to get a lynch on exchanges (hey, you lynch Quagmire today, we can both lynch Tracker tomorrow).

Firstly, I'm not at all talking about lynch exchanges - I was just using cyberbob/tracker as a random hypothetical.

And I think your example is missing a big thing. Yes, we don't lynch anyone who lurks a whole day - because those things happen. But Quagmire has made it his POLICY to not post anything relevant to his alignment d1. It's the difference between coming in D2 and saying 'Shit guys, I didn't post at all day 1!" and walking in D1 and saying, "Hey guys, not gonna post at all today" and that difference is a hell of a lot bigger than nothing.

To be honest, the only reason I don't want Quagmire lynched right this instant is because I want to lynch him for not providing information on his slot, and this game is slow and lurky enough that many people are doing that unintentionally.

I really don't like Nacho's idea of a weighting factor (We'll suspect him MORE on D2!) because the fact that Quagmire says, "My actions D1 help me immensely as scum' suggests that THAT DOESN'T WORK.

While we're waiting for mindgamer/angelmouse/etc. though, here's something to look at:

There's really no way not opening his PM could hurt him unless he had a day ability or could talk during the day with another player

What in the world makes you think this is about whether or not it will hurt

quagmire

? It's about how it hurts the towns information ON quagmire. Do you not see why this is an issue?

[hitogoroshi]

You know what the worst part of this playstyle is? You bring a lot of heat on yourself and distract town entirely (everyone is pretty much tunneled on you right now), so if you are a town power role, you're going to be forced into claiming day 1, thus heavily compromising your ability to help us. It's just fucking bad play.

I think what's more relevant is that he brings a lot of heat on himself and distract the town, giving scum a perfect smokescreen (as RC said). It's not that a town PR will be forced to claim that's the problem - the problem is that it makes a situation where the optimum scum play and optimum town play are more or less the same.

Also, since I'm agreeing with RC's statement with my vote still on Quagmire, let me clarify my position. Quagmire not reading his role PM is obviously a null-tell, however, it gives him a considerable personal benefit if he's scum at a significant detriment to the town. My campaign is in the truest sense a policy lynch; if I ever mod I intend to make the players respond with their role to avoid this. Is he scum? Probably not; he's got a 2/11, 3/11 or (god forbid) 4/11 chance of being scum. But I really don't like Quagmire screwing us all over for his benefit and I'm not just going to bend over and take it.

Are there scumtells so strong we'd be more likely to hit scum than Quagmire? It's possible; while Hoopla makes a good point regarding overconfidence on D1 scum reads there's still plenty of time for some scumslips to come up. But these odds are what let Quagmire get away with doing this every game; and while he says he's 'always acting pro-town' any blind scumhunting he does doesn't come close to us losing a whole day of information on his slot. He's hurting the town for his own gain, I think that's wrong, and thus I vote.

If Quagmire flips town, I'll be excited to reexamine his wagon, to find people like you & cruelty who have been jumping on a wagon at opportune times.
If Quagmire flips scum, I'll be excited to look at people like Mindgamer and The Tracker, who have failed to comment on the Quagmire wagon at all.

I'd be careful with such simplistic analysis. In the first case - well, Hoopla and RC, you'll remember Crossfire. There were 13 votes on a townie wagon - only two scum (one of which was a traitor who didn't even know who the scum were yet, and the other hammered.) There are easy wagons for scum to jump on, but there are also easy wagons for scum NOT to jump on and still feel secure knowing they'll go through.

And if quag is scum, I suppose it's possible they ignore him, but to be honest I doubt scum would choose to ignore something so big and it seems to be a null-tell to be left out of such a major event (Especially since mindgamer isn't even here.)

Although, now that you mention it, what about Tracker...? I don't seem to be able to remember any position he's taken on anything. An iso read shows a lot of touchy little one liners and not much content. Tracker, brevity may be the soul of wit but that doesn't mean posting extremely little makes you extremely smart - there's a happy medium and you're below it.

[hitogoroshi]

hitorogoshi, that is really bad analysis. You're clearly reaching to vote here, you could just admit it. I've explained numerous times why this benefits me as town as well.

I don't care about how it benefits

you

. You are making yourself significantly harder to read, which doesn't matter all that much if town and gives you a huge advantage at our expense if you're scum. If you want to call my analysis bad, explain how your style is helpful to the town if you're scum (hint: you can't because you already said it's an enormous benefit to you if you're scum!)

"Because it can benefit me as scum" can totally work as an argument because if the benefit is significant (and it is!) while the town benefit is slight (and it is!), we can lynch you on the grounds of, "Well, we don't know who the scum is, but let's lynch the person who would be hardest to read if they were scum." The fact that you'll get some marginal benefit if you're a townie is irrelevant - you've set yourself up for a huge advantage if you're scum and I see no reason why the town should take that risk, especially when it was your voluntary choice to force us into this dilemma.

And 'reaching to vote?' I've been voting you the whole game, buddy.

Also, I try not to be so wordy, but yeah, I am usually this verbose, especially when it's something about logic/information moreso than scumtells.

[hitogoroshi]

@minder: I'm not defending his play style, certainly not, and I don't think it's a good tactic at all. That said, it seems to be his play style so what more can we say other than it sucks and live with it?

This point has come up many times but your post makes it the clearest so I'm going to quote it.

I wrote a big rant here defending my vote on Quagmire but I deleted it because reading my thoughts written down made me realize something. My vote on Quagmire is basicially vengeance; he's decided to give himself an advantage at our expense and pass it off as good for everyone, and the idea of him taking advantage of us pisses me off so much that I want him dead. But that isn't a fair reason to lynch someone. His style is anti-town, yes, but if I step back from the anger there are people more anti-town than him, especially since he will have read his PM d2.

I'm never playing a game with Quagmire again unless he's forced to read his role PM. But in the mean time, I can swallow my bile (and boy, is there a lot of bile) and pick someone who's more of a detriment to the town. To anyone who's voting Quagmire and is currently angry at him - I'd encourage you to do a bit of introspection. Just because you want to murder him in real life doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it in the game.

If we're looking for good lynch targets (remember folks, three days or so until deadline) the big names are flare and tracker. Cruelty 236 makes a good point that flare is talking a lot about the Quag wagon distracting us from discussion while simultaneously not discussing anything else. Tracker, conversely, only seems to be interested in posting in his own defense and not at all pro-actively. Both of them, in short, are lumps with no real input on the bandwagons/day's proceedings. Since we're close to deadline, I'll

unvote, vote: The Tracker

.

If the flare wagon becomes viable I'd be willing to help it along, and obviously I'd prefer a Quagmire lynch to a no-lynch (I mean, how tolerant do you want me to be?). But it looks like we could make a Tracker wagon happen and I'm willing to admit that he's contributing less than Quagmire right now.

[hitogoroshi]

@Cruelty: With the deadline creeping closer and closer do you not agree that there's less room for original cases? I found those cases and read them, yes, and I happened to like the reasoning. I also read Flareon's posts and honestly they just didn't sit well with me.

"Less room for original cases" (which for the record isn't true - it can be too late for a specific bandwagon, but it's never too late to dig up stuff on the prevailing wagons) doesn't mean that you can simply say 'I agree with those cases'. Can you not even be asked to say what player's cases, and what points within those case? And how is deadline creeping closer an excuse when you've been doing this

all game

?

I don't like her play since it gives her as scum too much of a free pass out of investigations. But I suppose if she does something scummy later on we'll catch it.

What does her miller claim have to do with her play? What you're saying is, "Here is what I think about Hoopla's play: she's town, unless she does something scummy, in which case she is scum." Way to take a position there, champ.

Seriously guys, one day, thirteen hours. Vote tracker. Or get the flare wagon going.

[hitogoroshi]

Well I mean, if Quag is sick of mafia, it's the right move to get him now rather than dragging him along.

We've got...14 hours until deadline? I'd vote quag now but it'd be the hammer so I'll stay the lynch a bit. I'll be here all day so there's no rush - though with the site issues I might do it a few hours before deadline to be safe.

[hitogoroshi]

We were waiting for the 'discussion'

that totally happened

Unvote, vote: Quagmire

[hitogoroshi]

Nothing much, to be honest, but Mindgamer wanted to wait and quite frankly hammering then or now doesn't really make much difference to me. I was tempted to let it go to Mindgamer's 'I'll hammer an hour before deadline", but if I had an article of clothing for every time delegating responsibility to strangers was a good idea I could use a public shower without raising any eyebrows.

[hitogoroshi]

First thought: I'm noticing a bit of a pattern here. I think with Cruciare's odd role disclaimer we can expect the unexpected - and I think this might explain why Hoopla is a conscious miller (assuming she's truthful, of course.) An FBI agent with no SK to find and a miller who no one will notice as a miller but herself (or do millers flip scum when they die, as well?) - I could see that coming from Cruciare here. I'm not going to confirm two people as town on such specious reasoning, but it's interesting how their claims kind of bolster the likelihood of each other.

Of course Tracker still isn't really contributing, which is plenty scummy. But the people hopping on his wagon because there was no nk are missing a lot of probabilities; notably, flat-out refusing to consider an FBI agent without an SK. It's an easy place to sit and 'justify' your vote as scum without actually offering any analysis of your own.

vote:Mindgamer

[hitogoroshi]

Angelmouse considered FBI without SK, but thought it was unlikely. She also said that she thought tracker was scum for things she has already said, and was merely saying that she disagreed with his claim now. I disagree, but there's nothing scummy about disagreeing with my personal analysis.

The two differences with mindgamer. First, he has not expressed any significant tracker-scum read prior to that vote. Secondly, he said this d1:

The Tracker's role claim is interesting. It's not a very safe role to claim, so I believe it to be true for the moment. If there are two nightkills tonight, The Tracker's role is pretty much confirmed. If there is only one nightkill, The Tracker would be more suspicious, because I don't think the mafia/SK would waste their nightkill only to raise suspicion on The Tracker.

Though the chance that we have an FBI Agent without a Serial Killer also exists, of course.

(emphasis mine)

and yet today voted tracker with nothing more than 'only one night kill', as though the lack of a second kill held enough power in itself to make a tracker vote axiomatic.

Do you seriously not see the difference?

[hitogoroshi]

The correct answer to Hoopla's quiz is 'stop defensively speculating about PR's and start playing the game.'

I can sort of see where she's coming from with her vote on RC. While statistically Quag was more likely to be town that scum, he did seem to be fairly strongly neglecting the possibility of Quag-scum. But Hoopla's last three posts really rub me the wrong way. I get the impression that she went for a deliberately 'hard' looking target so she can look townie, doesn't actually intend to PUSH the RC wagon but instead will just defend her claim, and will 'compromise' on a lynch later in the day. Hoopla, let's focus less on 'this is why I'm a miller' and more on 'this is why you should all vote for RC'.

(That being said, there are still quite a few of you bums contributing less than Hoopla here, and I'm mostly just suspicious because I hold her to a higher standard of content.)

[hitogoroshi]

Well I still think you're wasting both your time and ours with that line of inquiry, but you're at least following a line of inquiry at all which is more than can be said of most people here. So I guess for now I'll just sit back and watch the show.

[hitogoroshi]

Well I still think you're wasting both your time and ours with that line of inquiry, but you're at least following a line of inquiry at all which is more than can be said of most people here. So I guess for now I'll just sit back and watch the show.

Since you're content on kicking back, let me grill you a bit. If Mindgamer was taken out of the picture, who is next on your list?

To clarify, sitting back was meant in just the context of Hoopla's 'case' on you. I think it's based off of some seriously sketchy and frivolous logic, and while normally I'd like to immediately begin bearing down against the case and Hoopla, I'm willing to let it unweave a little longer because Hoopla is at least following a line of reasoning that's important to her, even if I think it's a really dumb line of reasoning. Contrast with: cruelty has not posted d2, mindgamer and angelmouse have each posted once d2.

So, scum reads if Mindgamer is out of the picture:

Tracker is an odd one. I don't like him at all from a content perspective but I really feel his claim is legitimate. I really hate giving people 'free passes' because I want even confirmed townies feeling pressure to post, but that doesn't change the fact that I honestly feel that if we lynch Tracker he's going to flip FBI agent. If he stays with his defensive one liners I think I'm going to start to lose this reservation out of frustration (unintentional rhyme), but for now I have no interest in getting back on the tracker wagon.

Flare is trying way too hard to be liked. Scum do this, but more importantly, newbies do this. It's hard to get an indication of whether or not he's scum but his unreadability in this regard shoots him up to be a solid lynch candidate.

My number 2 suspect for scum after mindgamer, though, is Nacho. He spent a lot of time buddying up with Quagmire (basicially he did what Hoopla thinks RC did) for most of the day, then later in the day reverted to

Well, I don't see a Quagmire lynch as particularly horrible, but I still seriously want a Tracker lynch over a Quagmire lynch...

despite the fact that he spent most of the day specifying that he did see a Quagmire lynch as particularly horrible. Strikes me as just making sure he could get his 'right idea' down for posterity before going along with the wave. More importantly, he's doing a lot of very short, information-instead-of-analysis type posts. He's the prime example of someone who posts a lot on game related things while failing to really deliver an actual opinion on the proceedings. And the one main opinion he did deliver (that a Quagmire lynch) apparently changed to 'I don't see it as particularity horrible...' in the span of half a day.

[hitogoroshi]

And could you provide ISO numbers to where I fell into IIoA? Because I'm pretty sure you've been doing it far more than I have.

ISO 3, ISO 5, ISO 6, and ISO 23 are just questions and nothing else. You also have posts like ISO 17 where'll you define a point or something and then slip out. You were voting Tracker the entire day - but you made lots of posts where you offered no scum reads and never once stopped to say, 'Hey, other townies, vote tracker.'

Now, the one main opinion (after me saying Tracker was scum and we shouldn't lynch Quag of course) that Quag wasn't particularly horrible was me stating that I was willing to lynch Quagmire instead of letting a no-lynch come. I'd say that "contridiction" was a hell of a lot more town than yours: You were Mr. Let's Kill Quagmire the whole day, and when the wagon had gained far too much momentum to stop, then you mentioned that you were feeling doubts. Seems like a cheap way to gain tow points in my eyes.

I tried to kill the Quag wagon and start the Tracker wagon after I thought about it. You were voting tracker the whole day, yes, but the only time you ever asked anyone else to join it was when you quoted me saying it. Do you not know the difference between voting for someone and wagoning them? You put a very weak vote on Tracker (it was a pressure vote at the time), and held on to it the whole day without ever making it strong.

[hitogoroshi]

Erm, none of those posts show IIoA in the slightest. I scumhunt by asking questions; this gives me better reads on people. How else am I supposed to figure anything out?

But it doesn't tell us anything about YOU. I suppose IIoA is the wrong word, call it active lurking instead. Just asking a question tells us as much about you as if you had poked your head into the thread, said 'margarine is not an acceptable alternative to butter', and left again. Questions are a privilege you earn to add along with your content posting; to ask that we take your questions and CALL them content won't fly.

And, conveniently enough, it took you until 5 days before deadline to have your little epiphany.

*shrug* nothing to say here, other than that with Quag deliberately trolling the town I'm surprised I managed to get over it at ALL.

And asking people to join =/= gaining strength for your vote. I was spending most of my time trying to derail the Quagmire wagon, and until that was done, I didn't see most of you voting for else. What was I supposed to do, sneak in a "Look at Tracker! He's still not contributing!" every 5 seconds? Would that make it strong enough for your standards?

Pushing a Tracker wagon would have done far, far more to derail the Quagmire wagon than just yelling 'no one can vote quagmire today, we have to give him lynch immunity while he trolls us!' That's the difference in our positions, and I suppose that it's a bit unfair for me to call you scum on this point - I assumed you would have understood that making a counter-wagon viable would have done far more to derail Quagmire's lynch, but I see now that might not be the case.

Regardless this is more or less a moot point at this stage: Mindgamer's last couple of posts make me feel even happier with my vote (notice how he has backed away from his initial position and utterly failed to give a new one.)

I don't want to grab quotes because I have a lot of mafia on my plate right now, but let me say that Hoopla is quickly rising up in my scumlist. Her line of questioning that she said was 'important to her right now' has flowed into a lurker vote, and while I can normally dig going for lurkers I don't like that Hoopla seems to be doing EXACTLY what I suspected in 340:

I can sort of see where she's coming from with her vote on RC. While statistically Quag was more likely to be town that scum, he did seem to be fairly strongly neglecting the possibility of Quag-scum. But Hoopla's last three posts really rub me the wrong way. I

get the impression that she went for a deliberately 'hard' looking target so she can look townie, doesn't actually intend to PUSH the RC wagon but instead will just defend her claim, and will 'compromise' on a lynch later in the day.

Hoopla, let's focus less on 'this is why I'm a miller' and more on 'this is why you should all vote for RC'.

Only with 'compromise on a lynch' replaced with 'take the easy lurkervote'.

[hitogoroshi]

Oh wow. I think two wrongs just made a right here. You see, Nacho, it is

completely, totally, absolutely

your duty to give me a read on you (and of course, the reverse is true as well). That is the whole reason why lurking is bad - not because the lurkers aren't asking other people questions, but because we aren't seeing content from them.

But, if you don't understand that, your position on the Quagmire wagon is suddenly a whole lot more understandable. After all, the thing that was so goddamn aggravating about Quagmire was that he was making this incredibly anti-town thing his play style - but if you don't know how terrible it is to be deliberately unreadble (and rest assured, it is extremely terrible) then of COURSE you're going to protest the Quagmire lynch.

Let's chalk this one up to a breakdown in communication and consider the matter dropped. Nacho, it is imperative that you do more than ask questions and not try to make others force content out of you; but it really does look like you simply didn't know this and I'm not gonna dredge it up from the past anymore.

Also:

Wouldn't the easiest lurker-vote to be vote Mindgamer? He has more votes on him, and he hasn't exactly improved his play lately.

My vote on Mindgamer isn't a lurker vote. And the reason I dislike Hoopla's vote is not because it's "easy" - it's because it's an easy vote after she assured me her points on RC and the ensuing PR discussion was something very important and it seems it all has amounted to absolutely nothing.

[hitogoroshi]

[/game]How many of you ACTUALLY think, "Hey, I'm going to appeal to everyone's emotions with my next post."? I doubt anyone actually does that whether they are scum or not. You all should stop following the wiki so much and play the game the way you want to play the game. Leave the poor guy alone, if you don't believe him then you can say that but don't accuse him of trying to appeal to peoples emotions[game]

Wow, I actually agree with Flare here. AtE is one of those things, like misrepresentation, that townies very often see in others and scum very rarely choose to do deliberately. +town points for you, sir.

That being said, Mindgamer is still not providing content and I'm still happy with my vote where it is.

I still disagree, but I like the way you've been arguing.

I have solid town reads on AGar, hitogoroshi and The Tracker. Who should we lynch, guys? Does it have to be Mindgamer? What are your thoughts on RedCoyote and angelmouse?

Mindgamer is still my favorite lynch candidate. Angelmouse/angelmouse's replacement is gonna have a lot on their plate when they get back but I can't think of anything particularly scummy from that slot. RC is my strongest town read right now.

If I can't get you guys all on a mindgamer wagon, my other choices for lynch today would probably be cruelty (the fact my strongest town read is voting for him helps). I'm less certain about nacho-scum or flare-scum than I was before - I'd hop on their wagons with a deadline looming but I have no interest on pushing them. Hoopla is frustrating me to no end but I'm not comfortable translating that into a scumtell or a lynch at this point. If deadline hits us by surprise, the only people I'd rather no lynch than lynch are RC and AGar.

[hitogoroshi]

here is, as near as I can tell, the entire case on RC:

Ok Red, let's take your vote seriously.

I seriously got the impression that cruelty voted Quagmire almost purely out of spite

, especially after their little slapfest at the end of the day. He won't agree with that characterization of course, but the town can draw their own conclusions. cruelty played a big part in artifically extending that wagon.

He either did so out of emotion and principle, being against Quagmire's D1 play, or he did so to because he did not want another wagon to garner any steam

, as lynching townQuagmire or (supposedly) townTheTracker would've been good enough.

That's inconsistent. The first bolded part, you're sure I'm basing my vote on emotion, then you're suddenly ascribing devious logic to it, saying that I artificially extended the wagon out of

either

spite or strategy.

That's not a case. That's a silly little justification for a vote with a backdoor you can quietly slip out if things don't work out.

I'm not at all convinced that's enough reasoning for a vote, and I'm curious to know why Hoopla and Tracker think differently. (Tracker isn't voting RC, I know, but he says 'he can see why' and quite frankly I can't.)

Cruelty, after coming back from V/LA you really haven't done anything but vote RC because of a vote on you that's not well-justified enough. You've talked about no one besides yourself and RC, except for one brief point about flare. It's been what, four days? What happened to your tracker suspicion? What do you think about the other 9-10 players?

That being said, it makes sense enough that if you're not fully in the game you probably won't notice too much beyond the vote on you. Look at the other players, man. A vote on RC is just insane at this point. I especially don't like that Hoopla apparently has all these reasons for wanting to vote for RC and yet had to wait for cruelty to vote before she would.

If you read and honestly have reasons for not wanting to lynch mindgamer (and those reasons will have to , I'll pretty comfortable with a Tracker lynch (there's a decent chance he's telling the truth with his FBI agent claim but if he's going to stay hyper-defensive and literally respond to claims that he's not posting content with insults I stop caring) or a flare lynch (his town points for 378 have been lost by 406's 'no town reads, favorite lynch candidate is player who I thought had scum on their wagon nine iso posts ago.') But seriously cruelty, as long as you ignore any player who's not voting for you I can't take you or your vote seriously. If you honestly think you can make a case why RC is a better lynch candidate than those three, I guess you can try, but I can't imagine anyone thinking that at this point and I get the feeling it's just you reacting hardest to the parts that concern you. This isn't inherently scummy so I'm not voting you for it, but it is anti-town so I'm asking you to stop.

[hitogoroshi]

Red, here's the thing, I don't find any discrepancies in your post to build a solid case on. Just little things that don't equate to a vote. If you're not confident in your vote or case, why bother with one? That's one of my rules.

I can understand this because I used to be the same way, but this is actually a bad mindset to have. Your vote is more or less your most powerful tool in getting the game to go in the direction you want it to go; holding in your pocket for a sure read you can be confident in isn't a good plan of action in most cases.

I don't want to pick around and quote every little thing but some thoughts.

RC is totally right that cruelty is just focusing on him and him exclusively. I pointed this out back in 425 and cruelty has kept doing it.

I'm surprised at how little traction the idea of lynching Tracker is getting. The only reason I'm voting Mindgamer over tracker is because trackers claim seems fairly believable in this context. His posts are incredibly defensive and self-centered. I think the only players he's really given any sort of D2 thought on are mindgamer and flare.

Mindgamer finally came up with a single good content post at L-1 but I think that more than anything else contrasts with the fact that he hasn't really done anything else the whole game. If mindgamer knows what content looks like (as this post would seem to indicate) the fact that he apparently decided it wasn't worth his time to do so for the first day and a half speaks pretty strongly about where his loyalties lie.

Seriously, look at the lack of...well, anything, from both Tracker and mindgamer. This RC wagon is saying that you're (you being, people on the wagon) certain enough on RC being scum that you're willing to risk one of our biggest content/activity providers over those two, and I'm not seeing this certainty. Hoopla, you're willing to tunnel RC over what you admit is a gut twinge? cruelty, you're willing to call him scum when you apparently can't be asked to have an opinion on anyone else in the thread?

I don't know what to make of Faraday's scumlist. I don't possibly see how RC could be the strongest scum read and cruelty a town read upon an objective viewing of this thread. However, that's really delving into the area of 'anyone who disagrees with me MUST be scum' which is obviously untrue. Still, I can't shake the feeling that the 'case' on RC was written up AFTER faraday already chose to suspect him, and the best reason to suspect RC is to feed this new counter-wagon. If Mindgamer flips scum, good chance faraday is his scumbuddy.

To answer your question regarding my second scum suspect after mindgamer. I want to say 'Tracker', but I still have a little hesitance because of his claim (albeit a hesitance being chipped away with every defensive no content tiny post he puts out.) I think I'm finally ready to say that cruelty's ignoring of everyone else in the thread but RC is scummy, especially since I wrote a post calling him on it and,
in a fit of irony, he only quoted the part relating to RC. So let's say cruelty is my second suspect for now, with Tracker close behind.

[hitogoroshi]

It's true. I'm driving full tilt down an OMGUS tunnel with the lights off and Lynyrd Skynyrd blasting out Free Bird.

I guess you're being sarcastic here, but it is true.

Sarcasm mixed with acknowledgment.

Oh my goodness this is so scummy. This is saying 'well gee, I'm doing this anti-town thing, but if I point out I'm doing it it becomes harder to use it in a case on me.' Townies try to FIX the anti-town things they are doing; not just try to make them less capable arguing points.

Faraday, that's what I'm getting it - how in the world can you find THAT townie? I can see that maybe people see RC scummy, while I don't, but what I don't like is the 'cases' on him. It's like people KNOW he's very townie, and they're trying to do their best to pull up some kind of craplogic because others are doing it. I've got this feeling that RC wouldn't have been your strongest scum-read without cruelty's tunnel-vote or Hoopla lord-knows-what vote on him.

It's honestly to the point I'm probably happier with a cruelty lynch than a mindgamer lynch. Unfortunately, that's not an option barring a quick exodus of votes to crueltyville - I am not letting an RC lynch happen, so we have to keep this Mindgamer wagon viable. That being said, Mindgamer, I am liking the content coming out of your slot with your last couple of posts. It's probably too late for you, but on the chance you're townie, if you could just do a little more of what you're doing you'll be able to give us a lot to go on D3 (contrast with Quagmire). If you're a townie, I hope you can understand why I had to push your wagon and I hope next time we play together you open with this kind of content.

[hitogoroshi]

Hito, you'd seriously prefer no-lynch over an RC lynch?

Yes. Red's posting clearly, driving the town, and scumhunting.

Hito what are you going to do with your vote now that we have a deadline extension in lieu of the fact you believe Mindgamer to be town.

To be clear, I'm not saying I have a strong town read on Mindgamer - only that his more recent posts are weakening my scum read on him. Right now I think I'd peg Mindgamer as neutral-leaning-scum.

But you're right that this deadline extension gives me the room I need. I'm terrified that this is gonna falter and make lynching RC the only viable option at deadline, but cruelty is literally saying 'I acknowledge I'm only focusing on RC, what are you gonna do about it nyah nyah nyah' and if THAT doesn't get lynched it's going to tell us a whole lot about who the scum are.

unvote, vote: cruelty

I'm not gonna grab supporting quotes and all of that right now, but a couple of updates on where I stand. Edfrost has manuevered his way to my second strongest town read. Agar is slipping down into neutral-leaning-town, not so much because of a scummy something he did but because I'm suddenly not seeing his strong presence that gave me such a town read in the first place. I'm a bit hesitant to comment on the replacement stew until it settles out.

[hitogoroshi]

I think we're wallposting a little much right now. For what it's worth, I'm even more inclined to think of Edfrost as town after that fracas. It also puts Faraday in kind of a good light - I don't see scum fighting as hard as he is against who he is. Of course, quite frankly, I also don't see a pro-town player coming up with a list like Red/Ed/Agar - if we had an SK I'd peg Faraday in that slot, but since we apparently don't (unless he's withholding his skill or whatever) t I think I want to keep him around for his perspective (admittedly a perspective I think is totally wrong, but I'm not using my lynch to try to secure a town that agrees with me on everything!)

Faraday is right that we're gonna have a hell of a time getting a lynch today. This is my heartfelt plea to the people on the RC wagon in particular. Look. LOOK AT THE GAME. Cruelty is tunneling and basicially ignoring the game. After admitting he's doing it his response isn't "I actually have x,y, and z reads and it just didn't come up" or "I'm having issues reading players for these reasons" or even "sorry!", but instead can only come up with "sarcasm mixed with acknowledgment" and "I wouldn't be doing this as a scum play, would I?"

Coincidentally, the non-WIFOM answer to that last question is "Doesn't matter, it's a good scum play you're unwilling to change and the fact that it's an OBVIOUSLY good scum play isn't in any way a defense."

Also, cruelty, you asked something like 'who would you go after if I flipped town' and the answer is - wouldn't change a thing, really. It'd be a slight scum point for RC but the fact that you seem to be so uninvolved in this game means that your scum reads really aren't something to go by - being confirmed town doesn't make you confirmed right. When you're literally offering that your tunneling is so bad it can't be scummy as a defense, to then go on and say it should factor in to my day three+ decisions is pretty damn hilarious.




tl;dr version:

Dear Hoopla, Faraday, and AGar:

your next post either has a vote for cruelty or an explanation why {RC,Mindgamer} is a better lynch today. This would have to include cruelty's merits along with {RC,Mindgamer}'s scuminess.

love,
hito

[hitogoroshi]

Hello hito, I think cruelty's play is pro-town,

why

I think he's town.

why

While I'm sure I've clarified this view before, I think Mindgamer is less scummy than his early day 2 play but still preferable to a no-lynch. I would rather no-lynch than lynch RC. If the cruelty wagon doesn't pan out (but again: why) I'll be online many, many times today and I can switch to Mindgamer so we can use our flaker's ghost-votes to get something done.

[hitogoroshi]

I'm fine with a massclaim.

I want cruelty to go first and I want a content post from him stating his reads on everyone BEFORE they claim.

More from me soon-ish, I have a class to go to right now.

[hitogoroshi]

Vanilla town.

That's everyone except for the not-currently-here tracker slot.

Another one of my games is insanely active right now, so I apologize for my relatively sparse posting.

Cruelty, why are you not giving a scumlist?

[hitogoroshi]

I'm willing to put a lot of money on three scum in this game, based on us having a CPR doc and a tracker.

Your 'lynch list' has two people on it - me, and my strongest town read. If there are three scum in this game, we need to lynch correctly today, and then tomorrow, and then the next day. If I'm lynched, we lose. If RC is lynched, I'm almost certain we lose.

If this is where you stand, cruelty, then I know that a town victory in this game won't happen with you along. I think (and hope) this is because you're scum and not because you happened to tunnel on two townies and no one else.

vote: cruelty

Where I stand on the others:

As I said, RC continues to be my strongest town read. EdFrost is also with us. We've got a little triangle going that appears to be viewing the game the same way (though this is incredibly rude and egotistical, I can't help but mention that 'views the game logically' is what comes to mind). If we win, I think it's gonna be by us forming a voting bloc that the scum can't touch.

I'm still in a very weird place with Faraday. He disagrees with me in much the same way as cruelty, but while cruelty's tunneling and apathy scream scum to me Faraday's effort and posting style make me think town - even as he comes from a perspective I don't think townies can come from. If my bloc-mates think he's the best lynch I'm with them, but he's not my first choice.

With the games proceedings I believe Hoopla's claim (especially since she claimed BEFORE the FBI agent and arsonist claims - and I'm not exactly feeling an Edfrost/Hoopla/Tracker scumteam.) I'm glad to see that she, at least, seems to be stepping down from the idea that RC is scummy. Though I still have some residual misgivings for your D2 actions, I think there's still room in our voting bloc for one more, Hoopla. <3

I think there's at least one scum (and very possibly two) among our lurkers Nacho and Tracker (who is still desperately needing replacing, though I know our mod has been working hard on it.) It's hard for me to explain why but I just can't believe that all three scum have been capering in this thread and I haven't noticed. I want lots of content from those two as quickly as possible.

[hitogoroshi]

Cruelty: it's a fair point that going for me isn't tunneling. That was a quick post, I'll admit. Let me try to expand out my vote in more detail.

The tunneling was D2. You came in from a long absence and voted the person voting for you. I responded by pointing out that this was more or less OMGUS. Instead of doing anything to recitfy it, you just joked about it (this is something I personally call a scumtell - when you joke about an anti-town thing you're doing without changing it, I interpret it as trying to keep doing it without making a defense while LOOKING as thought you've addressed the point).

Now I personally don't think it's even possible to have an RC scum read for the reasons people have been giving. It strikes me as scum trying to look 'scumhunting' by deliberately picking a player whose posts ooze town. There's a bit of hesitation because you're not the only one who wanted to lynch RC, but out of the players who support his lynch you were both the start and the one I feel to be the least sincere.

I tried to get you lynched and failed. And now here we are, day three. You finally expand from your OMGUS vote on someone I believe is a townie and add...another OMGUS vote on the other biggest supporter for your lynch, on someone I KNOW is a townie, for reasoning that boils down to 'well he's acting pro-town but I still think he's secretly a sith lord.'

You're right that calling this tunneling was an over-simplification. But it's still wrong. For the town to win this game, we can't lynch either of your lynch targets. For the town to win this game, you can't have influence on our lynch. For the town to win this game, you have to die.

That is where we stand. I think you're scum and there's no point talking to you. If there are others who don't understand why I think this way (Hoopla and her strange cruelty-town read spring to mind) I can explain myself further.

Now, if you happen to be a townie...I don't know what to tell you. We lost this game when you did nothing but cling stubbornly to attacking your attackers. After how this game has gone I doubt I can convince you (especially because the counter to any reasonable argument on my part is, 'Well, of COURSE palpatine wants to look reasonable). Any change will have to come from you.

[hitogoroshi]

FYI im vanilla.

Is this a lynch all liars situation?

Let's think about the possibilities.

• Snow White-scum fakeclaims, forgets to check Tracker's posts to see if her slot has fakeclaimed already
  
• Snow White-town is an FBI agent, misread role PM
  
• Snow White-town is a VT, Tracker was lying

1 is, I think, the most likely. 2 is highly doubtful. As for 3...that's the only reason I'm not 100% on a Snow White wagon. Tracker seems like the kind of newbie player that would lie about a PR claim to save his own skin as town, although the fact that he didn't recant it when we started building set-up speculation around it is more worrisome.

What do you guys think? Is Tracker-VT lying about his role a big enough possibility that we don't lynch Snow White? I admit I'm biased here in that I'm weighing this against a cruelty lynch (and even if we hit SW-scum today, tomorrow we'll be back in the same position) and if this was, say, D2, I wouldn't have the uncertainty I do now.

[hitogoroshi]

Also, I just realized that RC asked for SW's 'claim' and I never raised an eyebrow as to why. But come to think of it, asking for a claim makes it LOOK like that slot never claimed, which is useful in this situation to try to catch scum.

Nicely played, sir.



I think that makes it even more probable that this is SnowWhite-Scum not realizing her slot had fakeclaimed (because of RC's post giving the impression it had not). But, like Hoopla, I at least want to hear her reasoning.

[hitogoroshi]

Mod: Please prod Nacho, he hasn't posted since thursday and he's been active on site.

While I personally still want to hear Snow White's response I really can't disagree with your vote, Ed.

[hitogoroshi]

Nahhh. Okay i lied. I didnt misread btw, i

intentionally lied.

Im an FBI agent and wanted to try to keep it as much in the dark as possible having just replaced in.

Unvote, Vote: Snow White

[hitogoroshi]

More importantly I think if we stall on the point scum might use that hesitation to try to push the fire out of the wagon. While I normally WANT a two+ wagon day, here it's positively bad for the town because having another viable wagon makes it possible to not lynch Snow White, and it's been my experience that if you're going to vote someone for a single, overwhelmingly scummy thing, you have to push it through right when it happens because we probably COULDN'T get a lynch off on Snow White on a later day. She deliberately lied to the town, with no town motivation to do so and a very simple scum explanation.

preview edit: while generally I only post reaction pictures in game threads (like your spongebob one) digging your last picture anyway.

[hitogoroshi]

when we wagon cruelty tomorrow, will it be awesome or extremely awesome? please show work

[hitogoroshi]

Almost certainly. I plan to diagram out the relationships between the remaining players tomorrow. (why tomorrow? simple: I'm lazy and I want to have one less person to worry about)

[hitogoroshi]

No Hoopla. I should not have lied. I deserved to be hammered and i am sorry to all for acting so foolishly.

I was indeed a town FBI agent.

Did I do it right, hito?

Yep! That's awesome.

Also let's not throw in the towel just yet. I've seen plenty of lynched scum still put up the townie facade to the bitter end.

[hitogoroshi]

[hitogoroshi]

Let me bring this back from the grave before MeMe drops the lock-hammer to post the quicktopic link. It's in the PM's Cruciare posted as well but that's not really an obvious place.

I also realize I never did a 'my thoughts' kind of post, which generally scum do postgame, but what can I say? Sucks the CPR doc wouldn't read his role PM, sucks Mindgamer lurked for so long, sucks Snow White fakeclaimed as an FBI agent, etc.