Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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I wish he was an affluent Australian insteadhe is now a fluentenglishmanAustralian
But I suppose it's better than being an effluent Australian.
I've finished my re-read, so I'll post my thoughts, but you'll have to excuse the lack of huge reasoning. I'm also redefining my scumreading with a different focus so we'll see how this goes.
Hoopla is town.
CoCo is town.
mathcam is town
Vaya is leaning town
le Chat is leaning town.
Finding it hard to get a read on or neutral:
Col Cathcart
charter
SensFan
Peabody
Cyberbob feels scumy but I can't put my finger on it. Gut scumread.
Talitha reads as scummy to me, and someone came close to it in thread. It's the activity after a vote. Twice now, once at 140 and once at 208 where she comes into the game significantly after suspicion was cast her way. Her reads are almost direct opposite of mine and I really didn't like her post where she was upset at one of her arguments being called dumb.
So I'll need to reread my non-reads to give you a complete picture of where i stand but this is a good one. I think the respond to suspicion tell is a good one and it's found me scum before.
On major issues:
Peabody having an RVS vote is in no way suspicious.
Attacking Sens and Harumafuki was legit (I finally understood your post after I replaced in - my god I read that 15 times not knowing what on earth you were talking about!)
The early bandwagon wasn't scummy. There could well be scum on the wagon, but 1/5 is meh odds anyway.
If anyone has anythign specific they desperately need me to expand upon let me know.I'm old now.-
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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If you wouldn't mind pointing me to such games that'd be great.
It's not that I'm accusing you of posting too little, I think Sens takes the cake on that one, it's more to do with the timing. Even now, as you rightly pointed out, you respond immediately to a case made against you, it's just unusual. In fact, people who are busy in RL are even MORE suspicious when they respond to suspicion of themselves as quickly as you've been doing.
Because it's a way of appealing to emotion. By being offended at the argument against you you case people to feel a bit guilty and not push as hard. Hell, you're a busy mother of three who's just trying to dabble a bit in a game that gives you some pleasure in between running a busy household - evenCan you please elaborate on how this might indicate I'm scum?Ifeel guilty attacking you! You even thanked me for replacing in! I'm going to go callmymum after this and apologise for not writing to her more
It's hard to say why specifically without knowing the exact examples, but generally there's a reason why I don't have a read on someone. So for example, if I think the case on peabody is inheritly flawed due to the whole RVS thing being blown WAY out of proportion, and you made a read on him due to that, I'd say you had the opposite view to me.And, how can you say "Her reads are almost direct opposite of mine" when of the people that I've mentioned, 2 of 3 most suspicious ar on your 'Finding it hard to get a read on or neutral' list?
Try me. I've read the words that have been wasted on that event and personally view them to be nothing but hot air. The post had a number of questions directed at players that looked genuine to me and stated a position on the issue at the time. The post clearly delinearated the RVS part, it had a joke about sucking at maths, then moved on to his position and his questions. No copout at all. If it was just the top third of his post there might be something to it, as it is, that argument is rubbish.Here you are more or less admitting that haven't read the thread very closely - if at all.
Having said that, I wouldn't clear Peabody, there was some iffy parts to his game and I'm not sure where he stands, but that particular argument is a massive red herring.
I'm going by what CoCo was hunting for. If he thought 2 or 3 scum were on the wagon it'd be worth persuing, but 'there is scum on the 5 person wagon' is not a particularly fruitful statement to make, I think.Only 1/5? How do you know?I'm old now.-
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Coco is town because of his stances and activity. His attacking of the wagon seemed genuine to me, and although I agree it wasn't particularly scummy, I can imagine someone without much experience in early wagons growing would be very alarmed to see it skyrocket like it did. I haven't actually agreed with him particularly much but his effort and attacks speak volumes to me. His long post with a summary at page five is a testment to that. Had he not been taking stances or pushing people, you might say there's elements of IIoA to it, but you can hardly accuse him of shying away from strong opinions and pressuring people.
mathcam is town because he has very considered opinions and isn't prepared to go with anything. He cut momentum on a wagon he was pushing by acknowledging why it was possible CoCo could have found the initial wagon scummy. He dismissed the attack on Peabody for being the red herring it was. He called out Cyberbob for his wishywashy appraisal of the initial argument. His post @ 128 reads as town to me. He unvoted when his arguments were satisfied and revoted when more came up. He has been very clear in his actions and posts. I read him as town.
Hoopla is town because she has forged ahead in pushing inactive people to post while still being clear on her position on major events. She seems transparent to me while taking an active role in getting the town up and at it. Her 263 post is fantastic, and her read on CoCo nailed it, imo. I think her discussion about the liklihood of hitting D1 scum is both true and gutsy.
(PS - this is why I am adjusting my playstyle to try to find a core group of players I can rule as town and work on hitting one of the rest. I think it's easier to identify town early, and even just a few people ruled out as town can really improve your lynching chance, even if there hasn't been time for scum to make a major mistake yet.)
My read on Vaya was based on her initial argument with CoCo but I think I'm downgrading that because the point that she has been very quiet since is definitely worrying. Her vote on Col Cath was also terribad. Consider her back to neutral/no read.
My read on le chat comes with just a small voice that is worrying to me. I find your playstyle inheritly scummy, right from the first post I was getting bad vibes from you, but once I got over it and started looking objectively I got over it. It's not enough to clear you for me, but it's enough to think you're town. Your catchup post looked obvtown to me.
I'll try to explain my gut scumread on Cyberbob.
His attacks seem to be always focused on a couple of quotable lines that in isolation are scummy. They are careful. He rarely opens his scope, just finds something small that is reasonable to attack and attacks it. It's not that his attacks aren't valid, it's that they are very mediocre. It looks like someone trying to find safe things to attack rather than someone trying to determine who scum is.
For example, here's a list of things which Cyberbob has attacked and his positions:
1) Says that the argument around the early wagon looks like a bunch of townies all shaking their fists at each other. This would be good except he then went on to say that he didn't mean he thought they were townies, rather it felt like a townie argument and he considered it a null tell. It started off looking like a good and reasonable position and ended up like a massive fence sit. No stance, no pushing people as town (something scum are often loathe to do), no weighing in on the major issue beyond the fact he wasn't weighing in at all and considered it a null tell for everyone involved in the debate.
2) Attacks Peabody for the RVS issue. You know my feelings on that, but either way, it's a safe little point. Forget his content, forget his game-specific positions and questions, focus on the quotable 2-line scummy point of an RVS vote after a bit of serious stuff had happened.
3) Attacks Peabody for saying he didn't know why he had to justify his vote. Again, really not that scummy in context but quotable and safe to go after. Not looking at the big picture.
4) Agrees with someone elses reasoning on Haru and signals he'd be up for a wagon.
5) Attacks Peabody for using similar language to what Peabody attacked him for earlier (wishywashy language like feels). I agree there's some hypocrasy but again it doesn't seem like strenuous scumhunting. It's hardly a big issue, and more disproves Peabody's point about Cyberbob's language than condemns Peabody for being scummy - but again it's a safe point to bring up.
6) Attacks CoCo for overreactive or combative language, again without going much deeper than 'your language is at times combative and even derisive'.
7) 'Had a look' at charter, but only in the context of CoCo's vote on him. So he didn't answer whether he thought charter was scummy, or even talk aobut the major arguments, just that after reading charter he felt he could comment on CoCo's vote.
8) Attacks CoCo for 'reaching like a pro' because of his (bad) argument about wanting to see more from charter because charter used the word 'reports'.
9) Attacks Col Cath for not backing up CoCo while being on his side. This is probably the attack I think is most justified, I agree it was very scummy of the Col to do this.
10) says he isn't sensing a charter wagon at the moment but gives zero reason as to why. He does go on to talk about CoCo and Col Cath and their reasons for pushing, but that's the second time he's looked at charter and yet commented on absolutely nothing charter has said or done.
11) Agrees with the active lurking charge on Col Cath (and charter).
12) Attacks me on a 'how do you know' point about 1/5 scum on a wagon, which was another typical 'gotcha' quotable post without looking at the whole (and a particularly poor one given the argument at the time, I feel.)
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So I feel there's a pattern to his play. Look for small, quotable bits of scumminess. Make points that can hardly be disagreed with, even if they don't really point to the author as scummy. Zero effort in analysing a player thoroughly, zero effort in declaring people town, rarely looks at events in context and is very sure to focus on what he's found. Clear noone, rarely switch your vote and FoS everyone. His interactions with charter stick out because unlike almost everyone else he hasn't FoSed him, hasn't found something small to quote and niggle at and despite mentioning a couple of times, hasn't talked aobut his play at all.
I'm currently prepared to lynch anyone not in my town or leaning town group, so I don't want to get too tunneled on someone, but this type of play that I really don't like. It doesn't look genuine. It's easy to push his points because he's caught a minor slip or contradiction, so he's right. But he doesn't use that as a springboard, doesn't persue it. It doesn't look to me like he's trying to find scum, it looks like he's trying to attack people without getting his hands dirty. Add a couple of wishy washy views about early events and some odd behaviour towards charter and you have a scumread from me.
It's almost 2am so I'm going to retire, I'll try to come back with a more thorough read through of my neutrals and see where I can place people.
@Sens -
I am implying you were useless to the game for a long stretch of time. Your first 5 points include a vote on Hoopla in the RVS then 11 days later you came back and unvoted then revoted the same person :/. You had RL reasons to not be in the game, that's fine, but Hoopla had every reason to call you on it. And it's entirely legitimate to question whether or not your VLA was legit given you've said it's part of your meta that you'd be prepared to lie about it to benefit your game.
So you're here now, good times, lets get on with the game. I'm interested in hearing more from you, and your preoccupation with people who attacked you for not saying anything for 11 days is further obscuring your take on the game.
And attacking Haru was legit because his posts were actively illegible, you can't play the game with people like that, as hilarious as they were.I'm old now.-
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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Haru's writing and reasoning was utterly illegible. You're either arguing for the sake of it or arguing because you don't like that I thought it legit to attack you. You were useless to the town, sitewide absense or no, and that's a bad thing. You're here now, the issue should be dropped without you devoting most of your actual posts to it.
Speaking of which, you say that there was nothing wrong with Haru because he was still voting and contributing, yet my long posts with detailed reads on most of the game, fresh reasoning and thread-based evidence and transparent stances are little signal. Maybe I should just post in emoticons.I'm old now.-
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sorry, I'm on my phone so it's hard to reply in ful, but this bit is important. I know you probably feel targeted but I felt I had to explain my read. I'd genuinely be happy with a lynch of anyone not on my town list because I'm beginning to find that I easily tunnel and that pbpas can make anyone lookscummy. Hence, especially on day 1, where info is very limited, I'm trying to look for towntells more than scumtells.Cyberbob wrote:
This is pretty funny, just saying.I'm currently prepared to lynch anyone not in my town or leaning town group, so I don't want to get too tunneled on someone,
Your interacton with charter make you likely to be scum together if one of you flip scum. It's not a masive part of my read, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on him anyway, if you would..
Sens - if you prefer haru's posts then we are an an impasse. I certainly wouldn't and I hink90% of the players on site wouldn't either. Either way, who do you think is scum or town? Double points for not making all of your reads depend on just the issues directly surrounding you.I'm old now.-
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That discussion was short and pithy vs long and waffly, not incoherent mistranslation vs Full player rundown.
But either way, my posting style is here to stay so not much point going on about it.
I'll break your duck though, and be the first to say you haven't commented enough on the game. It seems to me your biggest contribution has been attacking hoopla for attackingyou.
Cyberbob - I apologise for that, I read you as having changed your mind. No rush on the charter read, we've got plenty of time.
Hoopla, what do you think of my reads?I'm old now.-
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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sorry if my last post came across as rude, just hard to type out in full on the phone.I won't say who is Town, since that's one of the most anti-Town actions you can do in Mafia; you might as well just tell the Scum who they should be killing. As for who is Scum, I've said it before; do you read my posts? At the moment, probably something like: CoCo, Hoopla, Col.C, SC are in the top tier of scumminess, in no particular order.I'm old now.-
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Hoopla, what makes you say they are well founded? Just an odd phrase to use for day one reads ( I hate day one).
To expand on the word careful, I mean careful that anything he attacks he is unquestionably right on. By that I mean there's almost no gut read, almost no sweeping declarations, almost no theory that can be argued with. His point always start at a minor scummy sentence and regularly stay there, never becoming something even mildly controversial.
I don't find myself feeling that his efforts are genuinely concerned whether the person BEHIND the comment he is attacking is scum, rather just being concerned that the comment is scummy.
Does that explain it better?I'm old now.-
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This is possibly true. I'll go through my thoughs more thoroughly on those people after I get a bit of times.
Cyberbob - your stance on the inital argument WOULD be a good argument in your favour had you stuck with your town read, but it eventually boiled down to 'the entire thing is a nulltell, which is barely better than not commenting on it at all. If you'd said the four participating are likely to be town - that'd be taking a stance. Saying it's taught you nothing about anyone isn't.
Will post in the next day or two with a more thorough read over peabody and col.I'm old now.-
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Fair enough.
The reason I ask is that I am not voting charter and never has been. Kublai's mental facilities have been undernourished from the last game where he claimed miller as scum and was never suspected till he won, I think
Does that do anything to allieviate your concern about the charter wagon?I'm old now.-
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Ah, in that case Kublai's mental facilities are fine (although as if not unvote replacements) but Sens' argument now definitely makes less sense. He didn't think Haru was scummy, so Haru's vote for charter would have been a positive for the charter wagon, yes?
I'll have a look at your question, hold on a tick, I'm just browsing all games atm, still busy.
Ok, I've had a look but I'm not sure what you're getting at. As far as I can tell, you're asking me to tell you the motivations of Haru, which I wouldn't be any better at than anyone else if I could understand his point, but since I can't determine what he meant by stained glass peabody and un charter I've got no idea.
You realise that when I said Haru was me, I didn't mean we were the same person behind the posts, I mean I replaced him, right?I'm old now.-
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Sens - aren't those points counter to each other? On one hand you're happier thinking he might be scum because there's one less scummy person on the wagon, but on the other hand you're glad that the wagon is lessening onhim, presumably because you think him town?
I admit I don't get the idea of FoSing people. It seems to me to be a dramatic way to say 'I suspect you!' when just saying 'I suspect you' is fine. So maybe it's this that's biasing my opinion, but I found CoCos' FoS then vote the next day quite odd.
Still haven't had time to go through some of the other players thoroughly, sorry, I should be able to get through a bit tonight.I'm old now.-
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I don't see any reason to particularly think Peabody is scum.
I just read him in iso from start to finish and my verdict is new town (no offence). I wouldn't lose sleep if he was lynched, but I think there are better targets.
Of the major points against him,
* You know my view about the RVS issue,
* The attack on Cyberbob's language was cetainly a bad attack, but not necessarily scummy. It came across as ill-considered rather than malicious to me, although I conceed it as a scumtell.
* What else is there?
I can also point to things like defending charter agaisnt coco despite chrter solidly attacking him and his attack on coco seems genuine.
Mmm.
Plus, the two people I've pointed out as scummy are both on Peabody's wagon. I'm not convinced by it at all, really.
Unless there's some major reasons I've missed out on..?
Am looking forward to some more content from Talitha, (who again popped up to say hello 50 minutes after mathcam accused her directly). I can absoultely see her as scum (and while I take your opint about it being easy to turn up and defend yourself, it IS a scumtell that has proven results for me. Mainly because if you're able to defend yourself so quickly after attacks you are obviously keeping up with the thread, just not taking the time or seeing the need to post, both of which are scummy.)
Cyberbob has picked up a bit but I can see him as scum too.
I'm having trouble reading charter in two games now. Ugh.
Can't read Sens either. I think he's pretty useless and I disagree with almost everythign he says, but nothing has set off scum alarm bells.
On re-read of Col, I actually quite like his posts. I wouldn't be happy with him being the lynch today.
I'm also getting more frustrated by CoCo's play and downgrading to likely town. I still find it unlikely that scum would have this energy and passion, and even if it's fakable for the first day it's harder to fake it for a long game, so I dont' support a lynch D1. I think we'll be able to tell later on.
So that leaves me with a lynchable list of Cyberbob, Talitha, Sens, Vaya or even charter.
Anyone want to join me on Talitha's wagon?
vote TalithaI'm old now.-
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Col - I don't like some of that post, although our lynchable lists coincide quite a lot.
That makes no sense - if there's nothign to make the slightest FoS on, then my points were poor.Ok... I did a re-read on Cyberbob. While SC definitely has some point about his playstyle, I still think, that CB doing a really good job in scumhunting, and I cannot find anything, to even put a slightest FoS on.
a) Why? and b) what changed for you to form this decision?and I agree, that the 'Random Vote case' is not looking so null-tell as I initially thought),I'm old now.-
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My vote on Talitha is because for this entire game her focus has been primarily on defending herself rather than scumhunting. She's so concerned about defending herself that every time someone attacks her she's in and posting within a small amount of time, which shows she's following the game. I haven't seen many if any posts which read as town this game.
Her vote on me supports the lack of interest in genuinely finding scum, I think. Voting the person calling her out as scum is already a bit meh, but the reasons given seems to be my reluctance to vote peabody. She's prepared to entertain the idea whether or not peabody flips scum (in one scenario I'm bussing, in another scenario I'm avoiding a town lynch). Of course - she's supposedly town, so if I were scum moving off a townie I would have moved onto a different townie. So why she'd think I'd do that as scum is beyond me.
This is rubbish. It's the too townie fallacy. If someone appears to be playing as a good townie, generally they are a good townie.I really, really like my Serial Clergyman vote though. Unfortunately I may not get a lot of support in it, because he's nice and posts more than me and appears to be playing as a good townie. My opinion: a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Plus she left room for a hammer on Peabody. Talitha continues to look like a good lynch imo.I'm old now.-
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Trying. How often do 'inevitable' lynches find scum?For those opposed to this wagon or are off it currently for whatever reason, create another viable option.
Constantly repeating that I'm scum for the same posting style I display in every game isn't as useful as you seem to think it is. If I was deliberately obsfucating you might have a point, but I think I've been pretty clear with my reads and why. Would you like me to do my normal posts then directly follow it with a Sensfan-post that fits in a text message?sensfan wrote:Oh, and I think you're scum. And no, its not the "too townie" fallacy, its the "drown out the stuff in walls and people tend to subconsciously place you as town".I'm old now.-
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Well, putting someone on ignore is not particularly protown. I agree some of what Coco said was outo f line (specifically that one comment to Talitha) but it doesn't make him scum.
I think mathcam's position is perfectly fine. One shouldn't be looking to vote or lynch someone who you feel is over 50% chanceo f being scum, rather over the average chance of being scum.
Anyone notice Col Cathart come in after a sizeable absense to 'third' someone else's point on page 24 without adding any content then disappear again?I'm old now.-
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Fair enough.
I'm looking for more from Sens tomorrow after some flips, then. I'm having trouble reading him because I can't see much he's doing of anything, apart from a few caustic comments. If you say his strength is in his analysis after something a bit more concrete, I'll defer to that.
I'm seeing my view worsen on Cathart, but he's behind my preferred lynches.
Where did Vaya go?I'm old now.-
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Hi guys, I am trying to keep up with the game, but things are really difficult with the net.
I'm surprised I haven't copped more attacks. My vote on Peabody was after he self-imploded, so I can hardly be credited with being on the wagon and the person I pushed most agaisnt flipped town callign me scum. It's surprising to me that more people didn't jump on it. This especially includes Sens who seemed to have it in for me yesterday but didn't mention it today. I think if he was scum trying to set up something with his NK he'd be unlikely to just drop it.
I'm not sure what to think of Peabody's collapse. I think we ignore his outburst, I think it's almost impossible he'd give away his partner in that manner.
I'm starting to be convinced by a CoCo lynch. I know I originally said he was likely to be town, but his behaviour to the Peabody wagon is strange and I wouldn't be cmfortable trying to read him in a lylo situation.
Sorry for my brevity, I'll try to be more active but I can't promise anything until the bloody telco puts in my phone line. My hands are shaking due to internet withdrawalI'm old now.-
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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I don't have the game link at hand but my girlfriend had a scumpartner who wasn't a crafty player yet self lynched day two saying something like my scumpartner is great, I wish him all the best. Since my girlfriend is a she, the town considered her confirmed town and she rode it to victory. It doesn't take a particularly sophisticated player to thrownup a wifom game.I'm old now.-
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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This is a good point. The reality is
I'm unable to go looking for clues and things, so I'm relying on memory. And a poliy lynch doesn't mean lynching someone you think
is town. Coco has given me enough pause.
Having said that, cathart has a more indicative relationship with peabody. I'd be up for a cathart lynch.I'm old now.-
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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qft.Hoopla wrote:
I think that's a pretty stupid theory. If scum were going to plan for possible D1 scenarios, surely claiming a powerrole to prevent your own lynch and/or out another would be a better outcome for them. Claiming a scumbuddy guarentees your lynch and not necessarily a mislynch the next day. Claiming a powerrole can get a mislynch D1, and possibly out another role.CoCo wrote: My theory is scum may have planned for such a thing. "If you get lynched, name a townie as scumbuddy."
It's safe to assume it was a renegade gambit by a new player, thinking it was the right thing to do. Peabody's stable demeanor does not suggest a bitter player trying to ruin the game for a partner.
Should also qft cyberbobs joke. Filthy telstraI'm old now.-
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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Some thoughts.
The pact option only works if Noone questions it from the moment the pact happens onwards. Too many people have expressed suspicion for that to be the case, so that option is out for me.
I'm puzzled as to why sens didn't talk about his meta example a LOT sooner. Seems kinda relevent to discussion...
I'm currently ok to lynch cathart, coco or vaya.I'm old now.-
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I should have access to a real computer soon.
In the meantime - I liked the cathart claim until the roleblock of vaya. His story is that he didn't know a block would stop a kill, but he targetted scum anyway. He should either have been more adamant that vaya was innocent (because his block meant she couldn't have night killed) or he should have answered this charge by saying 'i assumed a third
scum committed the kill', not be surprised that the roleblock blocked kills.
vote cathartI'm old now.-
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To be honest, I've seen more town self-votes than scum self-votes. And this is one of the rare moments where I could see how they might find it justified - when a scum player has created a very difficult WIFOM situation. I could imagine Vaya as town being genuinely distressed that if it came down to a 3-man lylo with him he could well be lynched due to the outburst and thus in favour of his lynch now when it is less important. I don't agree with that position, but it's more justifiable than 'I give up, you guys are all against me, well I told you so, selfvote'.
le chat, any coment on the night choice of cathart?
I'm in favour of a hammer btw.I'm old now.-
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??if you told me right now you werent going to hammer him, i wouldnt hammer in your place. i fear his claim is for real and were getting rid of doctor-man. i dont mind more talking.
hoopla i dont know if i would hammer him or not. i fear losing a doc role and his claim sounds like it could be true. end of day 1 he was literally voting WITH peabody. that seems careless to do if you are maf partner with peabody, be the only two people voting a guy.
i wouldnt hammer if you didnt. i think we can still look at more people toDay.I'm old now.-
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SerialClergyman Mafia Scum
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That's an excellent point. If we have a 2-man scumteam, Vaya isn't scum.Now that we know Cathart did block Vaya night one, but the kill still went through, I'm not too sure. I want to go back and reread and see what that turns up.
I also haven't ever heard of a coward, but it reads morel ike a survivor than a hider. He also couldn't have been killed as a hider unless he hid on scum, I guess. I'm going breadcrumb fishing.I'm old now.-
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Ok, so this is going nowhere and the game is running out of steam fast. Lets get back on the killin' wagon.
CoCo - 2 -Peabody,Col.Cathart- (L-5)
mathcam - 1 - charter - (L-6)
Peabody, - 7 - Cyberbob, Vaya, Hoopla, mathcam,Talitha,SensFan, SerialClergyman - (L-0)
Vaya - 1 - le Chat - (L-6)
Players not voting: CoCo
Interestingly, the person who was on the town lynch but not on the scum lynch was charter. Almost everyone else who was on one was on both.CoCo - 2 -Col.Cathart, , Cyberbob - (L-4)
Col.Cathart, - 6 - mathcam, charter, Vaya,SensFan, , SerialClergyman, Hoopla - (L-0)
SensFan, - 1 - CoCo - (L-5)
Players not voting: le Chat
CoCo looks less like a worthwhile lynch when viewed in the context that Peabody's vote sat on him for almost all of D1. It's just the VI stuff that makes him hard.
I think the idea of a pact only works because you WIFOM the scum into thinking they are confirmed town and so therefore become a heavy NK target. We've now gone beyond that poitn with the level of suspicion, so we can't jsut the ideao f the pact, as much as I like it.
I'm also not in favour of a Vaya lynch.
So given the current situation stalling, the fact that I agree with mathcam and don't see any reason for scum suggesting what he suggested (moving off vaya and coco) and the wagon analysis, I'm going to put up charter for my vote.
vote charterI'm old now.-
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Oh - Few things I should have said.
The significance of mathcam read being town is that charter also voted him earlier, as well as him not being a viable lynch candidate for me atm.
The second most dicey person on that analysis is probably le chat - a 1-man vote on Vaya D1 is uninspiring and a no vote on the second day is doubly so.I'm old now.-
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