Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)

[CoCo]

Vote Vaya

for continuing the bandwagon.

[CoCo]

Vaya, it seems rather oppurtunistic on your part to jump on the first wagon.

[CoCo]

Yes there is. Jumping on a bandwagon brings one person closer to a lynch. You admit to being opportunistic in jumping on a bandwagon, therefore, you are bringing that player closer to a lynch. Its too early in the game to get a read on Hoopla. Out of all possible players, you chose to jump on a wagon.

That seems scummy to me.

[CoCo]

You are correct that chances are very good a lynch would not have happened.

What I AM suggesting is the opening wagon was not random.

[CoCo]

What I AM suggesting is the opening wagon was not random.

Where do you say/hint at anything like this? All you've done so far is jump on Vaya for jumping on a wagon.

Because he had the third vote, thus creating a wagon. Did anyone vote after Vaya?

[CoCo]

Explain then why you think that my putting her closer to a lynch is scummy. What would I, if I were scum, have to gain from it?

Egging on a bandwagon. If Hoopla = Town, scum would know and seek to get a quick lynch.

[CoCo]

Sensfan (who is V/LA for a week) and Charter also voted for Hoopla. That's five votes right out of the game. Are you telling me that's not suspisious in a twelve player game?

[CoCo]

Ha ha ha! That's an OMGUS vote.
I refuse to believe you don't see anything scummy about someone going to L-2 during the random phase.

[CoCo]

I've said plenty of times that I think its a scummy bandwagon. And I'm certian at least one of the people that jumped on (votes 3-5) are scum.

[CoCo]

Oh for fuck's sake! L-2 right out of the fucking gate is a scummy wagon. Stop digging for an explanition. There's nothing more to say. I'd say the same about any wagon like that starting up right away.

I singled you out because you voted third and allowed the wagon to take off. I've said this. The fact that you continue to carry on and ask me to explain something that is as plain as day furthers my resolve that you're scum.

[CoCo]

So you're saying it's somehow my fault the wagon went to L-2? Why blame me for this and not charter? And I still don't see the harm in putting someone at L-2, it's not going to kill them.

Don't drag me into a circular argument. Read my posts and figure it out.

[CoCo]

Vaya, I'm not the only person who thought the opening wagon was odd. You're the one defending it so hard. You've admited it was an opportunistic play on your part. Putting it all together, I feel you're scum.

[CoCo]

Where are these early reports?

[CoCo]

I'm not blaming you for thinking that it's unusual, this large of an early bandwagon doesn't happen to often. My problem is that you're being so stubborn in refusing to believe that it could not be scummy when you show no good or consistent reasoning to believe that it is. You keep changing you're stance on why you think it is scummy.

Precisely because it doesn't happen that often. It gave me pause to consider.
Fact: The odds of scum being on that wagon are probably higher than it consisting entirely of townies.
Fact: The scum were allowed 21 hours to talk pre-game.

Charter and Sensfan have about as much to do with this as Talitha and Harumafuji. Your vote is the third of the game and wagon. Its also smack dab in the middle of the wagon.
Just look at posts 42-49. That's the entire wagon. Everything else has been discussion about it.

At first you say you don't think there was a likely chance she would be lynched. You're just think its scummy because you think that the wagon wasn't random(What do you even mean by that?).

See above. The wagon was scummy.
I don't think she would be lynched because good townies would either choose other votes or unvote.

Egging on a bandwagon. If Hoopla = Town, scum would know and seek to get a quick lynch.

Then you turn around and say that its scummy because she may have been lynched, contradicting yourself here.

This is misrepresentation. I said 'seek to get a quick lynch.' I said no such thing to imply a lynch was possible.

Then you get frustrated and just say its just scummy because it is.

Because IT IS. I was only frustrated because you failed to even bother to take a look at the situation objectively. Posts 42-49.

You're not even trying to think about why or whether or not its scummy. You're just attacking me for any reason you can come up with. You've yet to show any valid and well backed reason to think I'm scum.

Because I've already thought about it. Your vote, its placement on the wagon, your defensiveness.

Also, you never gave a good reason for singling me out either. You just keep repeating 'you're the third vote, therefore you're somehow responsible for the wagon and the other two votes.'

Is this post a good enough reason?

[CoCo]

Charter, why are you getting a town reading on Hoopla and Vaya? Can you please point out specific posts that make you come to this conclusion?

Hoopla's reaction to the wagon on her wasn't scummy, so I'm leaning town on her. Pretty much every post of Vaya's I've agreed with, so town there as well.

Vaya, I wouldn't continue to waste your breath defending yourself against CoCo (aka it's way too early in the game for quote wars). I can't imagine anyone is actually buying what he's selling, I'm certainly not.

These aren't reports. These aren't even facts.

[CoCo]

Unvote

FOS Charter.

Early reports say both Hoopla and Vaya are town. Coco looks pretty suspect with his Vaya inquisition but ignoring the bandwagon votes of others. Looks like he's trying to build up a lynch on Vaya rather than question bandwagon votes.

unvote, vote CoCo

Charter, why are you getting a town reading on Hoopla and Vaya? Can you please point out specific posts that make you come to this conclusion?

Hoopla's reaction to the wagon on her wasn't scummy, so I'm leaning town on her.

Pretty much every post of Vaya's I've agreed with, so town there as well.

Vaya, I wouldn't continue to waste your breath defending yourself against CoCo (aka it's way too early in the game for quote wars). I can't imagine anyone is actually buying what he's selling, I'm certainly not.

Like I said, these aren't reports. They aren't even facts.

FOS Mathcam

Early reports say both Hoopla and Vaya are town. Coco looks pretty suspect with his Vaya inquisition but ignoring the bandwagon votes of others. Looks like he's trying to build up a lynch on Vaya rather than question bandwagon votes.

unvote, vote CoCo

Was going to make the same piont myself.

Unvote, vote: Coco.

.

Cam

Ahhh...I suspect Haru is a non-native speaker. That should be interesting.

And I don't think we need to be too harsh on CoCo -- certainly common wisdom raises an eyebrow at a 5-person bandwaggon in the first few posts of a game. That he finds this suspicious is not that surprising. The whole "The bandwaggon is scummy" vs. "No its not" quote war isn't particularly informative, imho.

Cam

If that's how you feel, then why are you voting for him?

Cuz there's a difference between finding someone scummy and being condescending to them?

Cam

Looks like both of them have shabby reasons for voting for me. I think some REAL explanations are due.

[CoCo]

Ummm, no. Where are these "early reports?" You're twisting the argument.

[CoCo]

I don't think so. Your choice of words makes it sound as though you had additional information.

[CoCo]

Exactly, Peabody. But I'm not going to vote until Mathcam explains himself (or tries to) before I make any votes.

[CoCo]

^Woah, too much coffee today, you think?

[CoCo]

Your quotes in my post 104 say otherwise.

[CoCo]

Allow me to make myself clear.

Charter posts about early reports showing Vaya as town. When asked, he says its simply because he agrees. I want to know exactly what posts he agrees with that point town on Vaya.

Second, Mathcam quotes the post by Charter and says he was "about to make that point himself."
What point? There was nothing to go on in that post. Also, he later tells people not to be so hard on me because the wagon did indeed look suspicious. When confronted about why he's voting for me in that case, he responds saying there is a difference between finding someone scummy and being condescending. After making 104, he responds with YET ANOTHER reason that has nothing to do with the quotes in question.

And this isn't OMGUS. I actually have a reason for wanting to vote for one of them. It appears their reasons are lacking substance.

[CoCo]

coco/vaya/mathcam/charter argument is a giant mass of red herring, overreaction and nulltell

How so?

[CoCo]

Huh? There is a very clear point in that post -- that it is bizarre that you are attacking Vaya and no one else, and further suggests an implication for this bizarreness. You have

still

not responded to this line of inquiry.

Where is the clear point in, "Early reports say Vaya is town?" (Paraphrased)

In fact, because you seem to be missing the point, let me emphasize with some questions: On Page 2, you vote vaya for continuing the bandwagon. Why did you not mention SensFan continuing the bandwagon? On page 3, you say that it seemed Vaya was being opportunistic in voting Vaya. Why not mention SensFan then? Why not mention charter, who quite explicitly was being opportunistic in his vote on Vaya?

Sensfan is V/LA. I'd get absolutely nowhere if I'd voted or questioned him until he returns.
Vaya admitted it was opportunistic. Sensfan was and is still gone.
In the argument with Vaya, I didn't see Charter's posts until later, and by then I had other bones to pick with him. Most notably, why he thinks agreeing with someone clears them as town.
Vaya's vote was smack tab in the middle of the bandwagon, this added fuel to the fire.

No I didn't. I said to not be so hard on you because I could understand why

you

(or someone in general) would think it's suspicious. Then I said to Vaya that me coming to your defense in the meta-mafia sense does not mean I didn't find you suspicious. But I don't see what either of these points have to do with anything.

But you didn't find it suspicious yourself?
If the bandwagon could be found suspicious by "someone in general,"why vote for the person that acts upon it?
What makes me suspicious for doing something you agree is possible?

[CoCo]

I believe my above points are valid.
In your perspective, what makes them nulltells?

[CoCo]

Here's a recap:

42: First post of the game, Talitha votes Hoopla.

43: Harumafuji, second post of the game, votes Hoopla. Says something about being inside the glass and agreeing with the cute little girl.

44: Vaya votes Hoopla.

45: Col.Cathart posts a remark of surprise that a bandwagon has already happened. Votes Harumafuji for creating it.

46: Sensfan votes Hoopla. Very suspcious as well, due to Cathart's remark.

47: Cyberbob posts and questions if the bandwagon is because Hoopla may have caused the game to restart.

48: I post. Vote Vaya for continuing the bandwagon. Clearly echoing the reasons for Cathart's vote.

49: Charter votes Hoopla. Exuberantly proclaims "Bandwagon!" Also suspicious.

50: Mathcam posts. Uses non-canon posts to suggest Hoopla as a valuable pro-town asset. Or strong scum. Would like to keep her alive. Doesn't understand Haru's statement. Wants to focus on Vaya and Sensfan's votes. Thinks Charter's vote is so nuts he isn't sure its scummy.

51: Vaya posts. Says it was a random bandwagon vote (is there such a thing?). Doesn't see anything wrong or scummy because no one has the intention of getting Hoopla lynched.

52: Hoopla posts. Doesn't care about blatent bandwagon. Votes Vaya as a bandwagon alternative.

53: Le Chat doesn't understand why all five players voted without the intention of lynching Hoopla.

54: Le Chat inquires about Hoopla's ongoing birthday.

55: Vaya doesn't see what's so hard to understand, when you bandwagon, you're not always pushing for a lynch.

56: Cathart posts. Says yes. Why join a bandwagon if you don't intend to lynch.

57: Mathcam asks Vaya why he didn't tell us it was blatant bandwagoning. Asks if Vaya rolled dice or just couldn't think of anything else. Is okay with blatant bandwagoning as long as its aknowledged.

58: Vaya once again defends the bandwagon. Responds to Cathart by saying the random bandwagon jump was to gauge reactions (doesn't this imply it wasn't a random vote then?). Doesn't understand why people have an issue with it. Tells Mathcam he didn't see a reason to point out that it was blatant bandwagoning. Claims by random vote, he meant he saw a wagon forming and jumped on to see what would happen.

59: I mention it seems rather opportunistic of Vaya to jump on the wagon.

60: Vaya says it was indeed opportunistic. But there's nothing scummy about it.

61: I say it is. Jumping on a bandwagon brings a person closer to a lynch. Too early to read Hoopla, and of all possible players, Vaya does the admited opportunistic route and jumps on a bandwagon. I say it seems scummy to me.

62: Charter says early reports say Hooplah and Vaya are town. Thinks I'm suspicious for my inquisition of Vaya (two posts) while ignoring the other bandwagon voters. Votes for me.

63: Vaya again says he was merely jumping on the bandwagon to promote discussion and gauge reactions. Asks if I was suggesting Vaya was trying to get Hoopla lynched. Also points out a lynch was unlikely to happen.

64: I concur that a lynch was unlikely. I point out that I was suggesting the wagon wasn't completely random.

65: Vaya asks what Vayascum would have to gain from pushing Hoopla one vote closer to a lynch.

66: Charter asks where I've said or hinted at the wagon not being random.

67: I point out Vaya had the third vote, creating the wagon, which in turn (because it was opportunistic) that the wagon wasn't random. I asked (knowing full well who I was asking, mind you) if anyone else voted after Vaya.

68: Charter says yes.

69: Vaya doesn't understand my point. Asks what scum motivations he would have for jumping on the bandwagon.

70: I say it eggs on the bandwagon. Allowing it to continue. Scum would know Hoopla is town, and can capitolize on it.

71: Charter asks why Vaya's was scummy rather than Sen's or his.

72: I point out that Sens and Charter voted for Hoopla as well. I ask why it wouldn't be suspicious.

73: Vaya tells me scum wouldn't be trying to go for a quick lynch because it would be too obvious. Also doesn't think a five person bandwagon right away is suspicious. Thinks I don't have good reasons to attack him and only going after him because others voiced suspicion and I'm obviously trying to go for a mislynch. (What???) Votes for me.

74: I call it an OMGUS vote. I refuse to believe Vaya doesn't see anything scummy about such an early L-2.

75: Vaya asserts that its not OMGUS and he has perfectly good reasons for voting me. Also if someone attacks him, he can find those attacks scummy. It was just a harmless random bandwagon and nothing bad can come of it. Says I haven't explained why I think the bandwagon is scummy.

76: I respond by saying I certainly have explained why I view it as scummy. I also say at least on of the people on the wagon, votes 3-5, are scum.

77: Vaya AGAIN says I haven't explained why the bandwagon is scummy. Nor why I singled him out instead of Sens or Charter.

78: I frustratingly post that I HAVE said why I think the wagon is scummy and why I singled out Vaya. I then say exactly why I did those things. I point out the circular argument furthers my reading that Vaya is scum.

79: Asks if I'm implying its his fault the wagon is at L-2. Asks why I blame him and not Charter. Doesn't see the harm in putting someone at L-2, because it won't kill them.

80: I tell Vaya not to pull me into a circular argument and to go read my posts.

81: I post again and tell Vaya that I wasn't the only person that thought the wagon was odd. I say I find Vaya scummy for defending the wagon strongly and admitting it was an opportunistic play.

82: Peabody votes Mathcam because he sucks at math... and because he missed the random phase. Doesn't understand why Hoopla is at L-2 right out of the random phase. Thinks something fishy is going on. Agrees with me, Le Chat, and Cathart. Asks Vaya if his vote on Hoopla was random. Asks Charter why he's gatting a town read on Hoopla and Vaya. Requests specific posts.

83: Mathcam quotes Charter's post #62. Ssays he was about to make that point. Votes for me.

84: I ask where the early reports came from.

85: Vaya's large post. Says he isn't blaming me because I think the wagon is unusual. It doesn't happen often. Says I'm stubborn for refusing to believe its not scummy. Says I have no good or consistent reasons for thinking so. Tells me I continually change my stance on why I think the wagon is scummy. Tries to imply I contradicted myself concerning whether or not a lynch of Hoopla was even possible. Claims I only think the wagon is scummy because I think it wasn't random. Says I claim the wagon is scummy for absolutely no reason. (Fuck you, btw. L-2 as soon as the game begins IS the reason.) Says I'm using whatever I can come up with to attack Vaya. Says I need a well backed reason. Also says I haven't given a good reason for singling him out. (round and round we go...)

86: Vaya tells Peabody there's nothing wrong or scummy with an early random bandwagon. Then says, "

My vote was an intentional bandwagon vote. When I said it was random, I meant that the wagon itself was random.

" (I thought your vote was random.)

87: My response to Vaya's large post. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 50#1832050

88: Long response from Vaya: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 78#1832178

89: Charter responds to Peabody that Hoopla's reaction to the bandwagon wasn't scummy, so he gets a town read. Says he agrees with Vaya and that makes her town. Tells Vaya not to bother arguing with me because its too early for quote wars and no one is "buying what I'm selling." (Coaching?)

90: Vaya says Charter is right and he'll stop arguing.

91: I tell Charter that his "reports" aren't even facts.

92: Harumafuji agrees with Charter and Mathcam, although I can't understand why. His wording is obtuse due to being a non-English speaker. Votes for me.

93: VOTE COUNT

94: Mathcam notices Haru isn't a native English speaker. Then says:
"And I don't think we need to be too harsh on CoCo -- certainly common wisdom raises an eyebrow at a 5-person bandwaggon in the first few posts of a game. That he finds this suspicious is not that surprising. The whole "The bandwaggon is scummy" vs. "No its not" quote war isn't particularly informative, imho."

95: Cathart expresses that being a verteran or not has little to do with the surprise that occurs when a bandwagon forms so quickly. Does not believe 5 people voted for the same person for little to no reason. Says its too little to accuse anyone of anything and drops out of the argument. Unvotes. Says Haru's posts causes his head to spin.

96: Hoopla says my facts in post 87 are debatable. Doesn't want to do the math, but agrees its probable scum is on the early bandwagon. Says bandwagons are more beneficial to the town because they generate reads, while the only thing scum stand to gain is the remote chance of a quick lynch.

97-98: Vaya asks Mathcam if he feels that way (post 94) why is he voting for me.

99: Mathcam responds its because there is a difference between finding someone scummy and being condescending to them.

100: Cyberbob chimes in saying Vaya and I are overreacting. Says new players tend to be more emotional, overreacting != scum. Votes Peabody for the late RVS vote.

101: Haru agrees with Cyberbob. FOS's Peabody. Bolds Peabody's statement of something fishy going on with the L-2 wagon. Says something about a 21 polling day.

102-103: Talitha arrives and says the bandwagon is good, unsure about me, votes Peabody for the random vote.

104: I unvote and FOS Charter and Mathcam for various quotes.

105: Admits he doesn't have any facts. Says his reason for voting me isn't shabby, its due to the fact I claimed I was questioning bandwagoners, yet hadn't confronted anyone but Vaya. He felt as though I didn't care about the bandwagon and only wanted to build a case on Vaya. Tells me I'm OMGUSing. Adds that the peabody wagon is good.

106: I tell Charter he is twisting the argument and I wish to see his early reports (i.e. specific quotes).

107: Charter says they were just his thoughts. Early reports = I think.

108: I point out his choice of words implied he had additional information.

109: Le Chat tells me he understood what Charter meant by "early reports." Thinks Haru's posts make things interesting. Tells Vaya he should have stressed "all 5 of you" because he found it odd that Vaya could speak for the alignment of everyone on the wagon. Says the wagon inspired discussion. Understands it didn't threaten Hoopla. Inquires about Hoopla's ongoing birthday.

110: Le Chat asks Charter what Hooplascum reaction to a 5-vote bandwagon would be. Says Peabody's random vote isn't a scumtell.

111: Vaya tells Le Chat he wasn't speaking for everyone on the wagon. Says jumping on the wagon doesn't have scummy motivations. If scum are on the wagon, voting isn't a sign of it. Also doesn't agree with all the votes for Peabody.

112: Peabody tells Cyberbob there are no other reasons for his Mathcam vote aside from the fact it was random. Doesn't see what's wrong with his bolded line in Haru's post 101. Tells Charter he disagrees with Charter's readings on Hoopla and Vaya. This is due to not hearing much from Hoopla and the Vaya reading being weak. Says he disagrees with a majority of the things Vaya has said. Requests specific quotes Charter refers to when saying he agrees with Vaya. Votes Charter.

113: I agree with Peabody. Announce I want to hear from Mathcam before making a vote.

114: I chuckle at my phrasing in post 113 and regret drinking so much coffee.

115: Mathcam responds. Says he gave a reason for his vote. Goes back to saying I ignored the other people on the bandwagon. Talks about me ignoring Charter. Says my post 87 is a pathetic reason. Says its not a good enough reason because I gave reasons long after Charter asked for them. Says I shouldn't have a problem being found scummy because two people disagreed with me. Wonders if I couldn't think of a valid response.

116: I point out Mathcam's contradiction with the quotes in 104.

117: Mathcam has no idea what I'm talking about because I offered no additional commentary. Tells me they are meta-mafia and irrelevent.

118: Hoopla says the CoCo vs the world discussion has become an irrelevant typing contest. Says my post 104 is rife with OMGUS and over-defensiveness. Wants Peabody's wagon to pick up steam. Votes Peabody.

This recap extends to the middle of page 5. The rest I'm sure you're all aware of.

Now, who looks scummiest in all that? This is a question for everyone.
Second, the Peabody wagon is incredibly stupid.

[CoCo]

Unvote, vote: Talitha

Any particular reason?

[CoCo]

Talitha, that sounds a bit like WIFOM. And does Peabody really deserve a vote for it?

[CoCo]

I'm going to be V/LA until at least Sunday night. Perhaps longer.

[CoCo]

I too was thinking Haru's posts were a little off. Not worth voting on at this time.

Vote Charter

, for being the scummiest of the three people I'm suspicious about.

[CoCo]

This is my first game where I'm not a replacement on this site. I wanted to experience the RVS. Also, I do not believe my "before discussion starts" comment was so unbelievable. The only events that transpired was the questionable argument back and forth between Vaya and Coco. Many of you have already said the conversation was useless.

How is this defensive of a late RVS vote, Talitha?

[CoCo]

Okay, let me word that better:

How does this quote work in a case about a late-RVS vote convince people Peabody is scum?

[CoCo]

So, because he never said it was a joke yet has said he wished to participate in an RVS; you find it scummy?

[CoCo]

What's obtuse about it? Seriously, enlighten me. I cannot, in good consciousness, vote for a player that made a lame RVS joke. Had he not commenteated on the goings on, I'd be in your camp.

[CoCo]

I've already taken a stance. I do not beleive at this moment that Peabody is scum. I have made several statements to this effect for quite some time now.

Could someone point out the post in which Peabody says something such as "The RVS vote was a joke" and another in which he says, "The RVS vote was not a joke"?

[CoCo]

In other news I'm also interested in mathcam.. I think he could easily be scum.

Can you elaborate? I haven't really been getting any sort of a read off of him.

Orddung! You weren't reading because you thought the 4-way argument was based upon null tells. You STILL have yet to comment on that. Surely your opinion must have read one way or another!

[CoCo]

Cyberbob:

Post 1: Shouldn't that have been obvious? He separated it with a line and everything. I am certainly not going to reach at straws for a lynch around that. I'd rather look at how a player behaves.

Post 2: Blatant fence straddling. I don't expect you to agree with me, but you must have other thoughts about the situation. Who in that tug-of-war looks the scummiest?

[CoCo]

Oh, a

line

!! Well that changes everything.

This is a non-answer. I think you can do better.

Oh yes, clearly I'm trying to play both sides here. That's why I've been defending myself rather vigourously against a bunch of people who were involved on both sides of the aisle.

And now I'm asking. You should be just as proficient at answering my inquiries as you were to theirs.

If I absolutely life-depending-on-it had to choose a scummiest player to come out of the argument I would choose you for overreacting the most.

Can't say I didn't see that coming. How about explaining my overreactions? Go on, quote posts.

[CoCo]

Charter, then why weren't you asking questions as I was?

Here's something; does one not think I might have been watching for reactions while attacking Vaya?

[CoCo]

Also, Charter... you voted for me based upon my attacks at Vaya.

Hmmm...

[CoCo]

Lol, you missed my following post, didn't you, Cyberbob?

[CoCo]

See, this is another one of those misconstrues. I SPECIFICALLY stated when I voted you that it was because you were only questioning Vaya, not everyone who was bandwagoning.

Early reports say both Hoopla and Vaya are town. Coco looks pretty suspect with his Vaya inquisition but ignoring the bandwagon votes of others. Looks like he's trying to build up a lynch on Vaya rather than question bandwagon votes.

unvote, vote CoCo

Yes, I'm still ignoring the votes of others...

Charter: "Hooplah has a couple posts, she must be town. Also, I agree with Vaya, obviously town then. But sweet Jesus, CoCo isn't happy. Must be scum."

You have drawn this on yourself, scum.

[CoCo]

Lol, you missed my following post, didn't you, Cyberbob?

No, I didn't.

It may (emphasis on "may") even be as you say, that you managed to draw some reactions from people that will be useful later on. However to try and claim that that was your intention all along is a pretty blatant falsehood and an attempt to retcon some form of rationality into your earlier posts.

Read 201 and get back to me.

[CoCo]

Ok, I'm just going to stop arguing with CoCo before I pull my hair out. If I see something he does that I think is scummy, I'll post it, else I'm just going to try and avoid migraines.

Go on... what is it about my posts that bother you so much as to pull your hair out?

The Hoopla vs Harufakefuji thing was interesting too. Still trying to figure out if I think Hoopla acted a little suspiciously there.

I don't see how. Clarity is important to the town, while Haru's garbled nothing-posts only serve to provide murkier waters for scum to lurk in.

I'll come right out and say I'm not liking Talitha's recent posts. Furthermore, Haru deserves attention before the day is over.

Read 201 and get back to me.

Read the first part of my post and get back to me. I'm not saying that you definitely did not draw any potentially useful reactions, only that it was pretty obviously not on your mind at the time.

Will do.

[CoCo]

It may (emphasis on "may") even be as you say, that you managed to draw some reactions from people that will be useful later on. However to try and claim that that was your intention all along is a pretty blatant falsehood and an attempt to retcon some form of rationality into your earlier posts.

This post?

I'm sorry I don't offer a play-by-play. Suffice to say I keep many of my motivations secret in order to trap scum later. You are more than welcome to read over any of my games, current or otherwise.

[CoCo]

I'm sorry I don't offer a play-by-play. Suffice to say I keep many of my motivations secret in order to trap scum later.

I'm sure you do; plenty of people do. I just don't buy it here; you were getting pretty genuinely angry IMO.

Yes, during that time I WAS genuinely

frustrated

. However, if you read Iso-Charter, perhaps you will understand the reasoning behind my vote.

[CoCo]

Hooplh brings an interesting point to the table regarding Haru.

[CoCo]

Again we must rely on Charter's "Early Reports."

[CoCo]

Hey, anyone read iso-Mathcam yet? You should...

[CoCo]

And we're to accept you'll stop your attacks against Peabody because you found a "softer target"? Not likely.

[CoCo]

Nice content, Talitha. I'm sure it will help us find scum.

[CoCo]

@Le Chat: iso-[player name] is basically reading a player's posts in isolation. You can do so easily by going to the bottom of the page and using the drop down menus to select a player.

I'll respond to Mathcam's 215 after dinner.

[CoCo]

I agree with CoCo being ridiculous obtuse and misconstruing everything. Unfortunately, I'm not feeling scum off him.

CoCo, this is almost everyone in the game chiming in on the same topic -- you either inadvertently or consciously misinterpret just about every argument made in this game. Further, when people call you out on it, you tend to ignore their claims. You also ignored direct attacks against you for quite some time. If these are indeed inadvertent, I suggest you start taking your time reading other people's arguments. But since I'm beginning to suspect not-so-inadvertent...

Really? I'm quite single-minded. If I think someone is scum, I tend to ignore everything else until I'm satisfied either a) that player isn't scum or b) the player is scum and the case is iron-clad.
Once one of those criteria are met, I begin to judge the reactions of other players.
I became not-as-suspicious of Vaya and turned my attention onto you and Charter. If you're going to attack me, attack my arguments rather than my playstyle.

I'm going to

Vote: CoCo

, for two reasons. First is the original attack -- while I think he has some "plausible deniability" in the sense that he can push off inconsistencies onto the V/LA, it's hardly airtight. Even if he decided that Vaya was the right target, why not even

mention

SensFan? The second is the argument in the previous paragraph -- delaying responding to attacks gives him time to read how other people respond to them before providing a defense, not to mention the possibility that people would forget about it. Contributing to this "hoping people forget about it" is his proclivity for strongly shifting focus on some very bizarre topics -- the "early reports" comes to mind, as does his insistence that there was no content in the post of charter that I quoted and agreed with (and a pretty implausible interpretation of what I was agreeing with).

1. For crying out loud. Are we still talking about Sensfan? He was on V/LA,

explain what good it would have done for me to put everything else on hold until he returned.

In fact, he still hasn't said much (one post?) since he's returned. You can bet your ass I'm suspicious of him... but there really isn't much I can do until he starts participating.

2. I can see your logic in thinking this. But it is simply not true, as I explained above.

The main reservation I have with my vote is that I would typically assign CoCo's fervor in this game a slightly pro-town rating, but it's not enough to overcome the above points.

Pro-town fervor = scum?
If your above points lead to "fervor" how is that a case for me being scum?

[CoCo]

V/LA until Sunday or Monday.

[CoCo]

Sensfan, why did you jump on the bandwagon at the beginning of the game? If you'd been reading the thread since you "came back," I find it odd you haven't commented on it yet. Even though I have mentioned a few times it made me suspicious of you, but couldn't do anything about it until you returned.

Second, new laptop? I thought you were visiting your girlfriend...

I'm still mostly V/LA until tomorrow or Monday, but I'm near a computer for the time being and will be reading/discussing until I leave again.

[CoCo]

Why would you jump on a wagon so early in the game?

[CoCo]

Because its "a wagon so early in the game".

So? During a random vote stage, there are 11 other players to vote for (including yourself), why jump on a bandwagon? That doesn't make your vote very random, does it?

@Peabody: What? I get called out because I couldn't question Sensfan (and therefore didn't mention him) and you chime in to say it gets us nowhere? I'm covering the ground I intended to cover. What are you doing?

[CoCo]

CoCo - the main problem is, I can see an EXACT copy of your and Vaya argument from beginning of the game. We can already see from his statement, that he'll use the same line of defense.

Perhaps. But wouldn't that be suspicious? I think one would have their own reasoning for jumping on a bandwagon. Especially when two players voted others for starting/continuing it... which brings us back to Charter.

I still expect answers from Sesnfan.

[CoCo]

Than, I am lead to believe you jumped on the wagon solely to get Hoopla lynched. Am I correct?

[CoCo]

I don't see it Charter. I also think you're scum. And its funny I was called out because I didn't mention Sensfan. Now that I'm questioning him I'm being unhelpful? Bogus.

[CoCo]

No, you are not. To quote Tally, stop being obtuse.

Okay, aside from "being a big wagon" why did you jump on it? Its a simple question and I can't believe you haven't answered it.

[CoCo]

Cathart, it brings us back to Charter because his early bandwagon vote put Hoopla at L-2 which he dropped not three hours later to vote for me because "I'm ignoring his and Sensfan's votes." He said Hoopla looked town even though all she'd said was she's doesn't mind blatant bandwagons and voted Vaya as an alternative.

I really think, of all "odd" bandwagon voters, Charter is the scummiest one. Second would be Vaya. I don't even think Sensfan is scummy because of it. His responses seem to indicate a carefree attitude. I believe his vote was what he says it is, just a bandwagon vote. He doesn't defend it vehemently like the other two have.

I am puzzled about Sensfan saying "in a perfect world, someone would have put L-2 to L-1" though.

[CoCo]

For the record, Hoopla doesn't appear to have voted Haru to get a lynch. She did so because his posting style provided murky waters for scum to hide in.

It took me all of 5 minutes doing an iso-read to see that.

[CoCo]

But votes 4 and 5 aren't scummy at all?

[CoCo]

Well, at the time, I was invested in the fact Vaya's vote was sitting squarely in the middle. What that has to do with anything is beyond me now. I suppose I could look it up to recall my train of thought... but I've since moved on to greener pastures.

Because Charter's later behavior in my eyes and Sensfan doesn't seem to blow his defense out of proportion or make attacks at me because of my theory, Charter's vote is the scummiest of the last three votes.

[CoCo]

Mathcam and Charter: I find it ironic two of the people I dogged the hardest over the early bandwagon fiasco are arguing over my playstyle. Going so far as to suspect each other! Who's to say this isn't a distancing effort?

[CoCo]

Yeah, Vaya did sort of disappear when the flame died.

Vaya/Charter team?

[CoCo]

Interesting.

I just took a look at Mini 835, which CoCo replaced into. This is an ongoing game, so I don't want to belabor this point, but iso-CoCoing in that game leaves a very different impression of CoCo's playstyle -- he is self-deprecating, thoughtful, and responds to questions/attacks directed against him.

Whether this shift in behavior is deliberate or inadvertent, it means we can no longer attribute the anti-town tells he's been exuding as simply a by-product of his playstyle.

Cam

Unvote. Vote Mathcam.

That's poor. Oh so poor. Did you expect people to not read the entire game, or what?
Furthermore, to use an on-going game is crap. Take a look at 807 and shut the hell up, scum.

[CoCo]

Okay. Regarding Mathcam.

Unvote

. I probably should have made an

FOS: Mathcam

instead of going to a vote. I definitely think Charter is still the scummier of the two.

Vote Charter

.
The thing is, when I said to read my current and previous games, I did so to demonstrate my playstyle. The fact you used an ongoing game, then say I've been playing it differently is utter crap. I can't defend against it until that game is complete. Furthermore, you can't show specific examples either. So, just coming in and saying, "I read another game you're playing and you play differently in that one." is inherently unfair meta. Hypothetically, I could even scum in that other game. Using an ongoing game against me is scummy.

I really don't like Sensfan saying Haru's posts were legible. I know I'm not in the minority by thinking the opposite is true. I'm surprised no one caught that.

Concerning Peabody. I said I didn't think his RVS vote was scummy. Honestly, I'm going for a neutral read until I have time to research.

[CoCo]

I'm voting for you because I think you're scum.

[CoCo]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11658

There's Mafia 807. I was town-cop and harrassed several times over ignoring questions, using OMGUS, etc, etc.

Sens, how were Haru's posts legible?

Charter, I'll be back in a bit with my reasons as to why you're scum. I was gone for two days and I'm catching up with my other games (and not just on this site).

[CoCo]

Charter, all anyone has to do is take a look at your vote history. You've switched votes around more than anyone.

1. You jumped on the Hoopla bandwagon.

2. You voted me because I failed to question you or Sensfan.

3. You vote Peabody over his late RVS vote.

4. You vote Cathart during a strong wagon.

It appears they are all opportunistic votes to lynch someone, anyone. Your hands are pratically wrapped around straws at this point and I have no problems rejoining the wagon on you.

[CoCo]

Explain what you mean by dichotomy.

[CoCo]

I think for now, that Peabody's vote was a simple mistake, not a real scum-tell. His jumpiness to vote others IS quite suspicious though.

Why are you defending Peabody? If Peabody comes up scum, you're the first to go.

unvote, vote Peabody

As for why I suspect Col Cathart and Peabody.
Col Cathart spends his first three posts waiting for others to do stuff instead of doing it himself. Not strong pro town posts. He unvotes his RVS vote but I see no intention of looking for another place to put his vote.

I think for now, that Peabody's vote was a simple mistake, not a real scum-tell. His jumpiness to vote others IS quite suspicious though.

This is really scummy. He is explaining away Peabody's vote and trying to say it isn't a scum tell.

Post 6 is more waiting around.

So I'm pretty much suspicious of him because he isn't really looking in to people, just making comments from the sidelines. His list of suspects is pretty convenient as well. Even more is him saying Peabody's answers don't make sense, but does he question Peabody on this discrepancy? No..

Lastly: Do you still really think I'm a scumbuddy with Peabody, because I didn't jump to his throat, when everyone else did? As someone else stated before, that's pretty ridiculous. Not to mention, that it was a perfect ground for bussing, so that kind of action for scum makes no sense to me...

I'm not really sure how to explain this well, but this is a poor way of defending yourself, and this is more of giving me the impression that Peabody is town and Col Cathart is not.

Peabody, his initial vote was fishy, as has been pointed out.
His vote on to me was pretty weak, and it's still there. He's not questioning me on anything about it either.

Upon writing all this, I find Col Cathart much scummier, so

unvote, vote Col Cathart

[/quote]

Classic example of your vote hopping. You've done this plenty of times. Explaining why you made each individual vote does not deter from the fact you've seemingly tried to make a case on several players, reversed stances, and generally give off a scummy vibe to me.

[CoCo]

Could you tell why he was suspecting the players he did?

[CoCo]

I disagree. It is absolutely crucial to the town that we get cases and analysis from everyone, especially Day 1. Its where townies get the majority of our reads! I cannot fathom why you'd defend someone that offered nothing to the town other than a vote.

Votes are very important, but analysis is doubly so.

[CoCo]

And that statement as jack shit to do with Haru's posts. Nor does it refute my statement that Haru's posting style did absolutely nothing good for the town. It was unreadable in both meanings of the word, and, quite frankly, I'd be pushing for his lynch if he was still around just to take out the trash and I didn't feel Charter is scum.

Anti-town != scum.

[CoCo]

Peabody, are you accusing me of vote hopping? The quote was messed up in both my post and yours.

I'm also curious as to where I've recently dodged questions.

Are you saying Charter's case on me is more credible than his vote hopping and anti-town play (which you pointed out over the "cold shoulder" play.

[CoCo]

I never said I was willing to lynch you. My last post has plenty of things for you to "defend" against.

[CoCo]

I never said I was willing to lynch you. My last post has plenty of things for you to "defend" against.

I was referring to 430. Forgot about my Peabody directed post. Sorry.


Cyberbob, cut the crap. Peabody made the late RVS vote, made a ------ line and then commented on the game.

[CoCo]

But you're saying he did not comment on the game up until that point, and his post shows he did.

[CoCo]

The vote was lazy because it allowed you to "get on the board", so to speak, without actually having to make a concrete statement on the game up to that point..

Show me where he didn't comment on the game.

[CoCo]

Yes, but he separated it with a line.

I honestly think your line of attacks are incorrect. I don't see it as being scummy. Some of his other behavior? Maybe. But don't reach for straws when you could evaluate his later play.

[CoCo]

Well, I'm not arguing with you about his later play. I just think calling him scum over a late RVS vote/joke is awful. Conversely, the way so many people accepted the wagon is something that should be examined in detail.

[CoCo]

I'm going to iso-read Peabody right now.

[CoCo]

Didn't take long. By the 5th post, Peabody was already defending his vote. In fact, him saying it was useless to comment on Vaya and my back and forth is junk. Worthless or not, plenty of things happened. Suspicion of me, reactions, suspicion of Charter, etc. To come into the game the way he did is indeed very strange.

FOS: Peabody.

[CoCo]

After my discussion with Cyberbob last night and thinking about it today...

Unvote, Vote Peabody.

[CoCo]

I admit I don't get the idea of FoSing people. It seems to me to be a dramatic way to say 'I suspect you!' when just saying 'I suspect you' is fine. So maybe it's this that's biasing my opinion, but I found CoCos' FoS then vote the next day quite odd.

What's so odd about it? Did you even read the posts in which I went back and confirmed Cyberbob's reasons for his thinking Peabody is scum?
Is it not possible I made an FOS while weighing Peabody's wagon against Charter's?

I think you're truly grasping at straws to make me appear scummy with this.

[CoCo]

Oh, for fuck's sake!

Talitha and Chatrer are obvscum.

Both hopped off the Peabody wagon for various reasons and it all crap. The only person with a good reason to be on that wagon is Cyberbob.

Cyberbob is town.
Peabody is town.
Mathcam is neutral.
Vaya has no read for me anymore (not enough post-bandwagon-content).

Unvote. Vote Charter.

Its a known fact 9/10 there are 3 scum in 12 player games. This entire argument is a diversion. Any time I've seen a player say something to the effect of "Oh, so you know there are 3 scum?" IS SCUM! Its a bullshit argument when the status quo says so.


@Peabody, do I really have to answer things I've answered before?

@everyone: OH NOES! I MUST BE TEH SCUMZ FOR HOPPING OFF TEH BANDWAGON!

Lynch me. When I flip town this post will show my logic to be correct.

[CoCo]

Unvote. Vote Charter.

[CoCo]

Correction: Mathcam is probably scum.

"I think there are only 2 scum, hurff durff."

-Cam

Liar.

[CoCo]

Absolutely not.

Charter is scum. Talitha is scum.

I'll eat my super awesome beer helmet if we lynch anyone else today.

[CoCo]

Talitha, you seem overeager to regal tales of my earlier scummy attitude.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I hold evidence that Talitha is guilty:

Re: Me unvoting Peabody.

If I were scum with Peabody I would not have started his wagon, continued to push his wagon, only to jump off at L-1.

Here's the rub; Peabody was at L-2. Saying hypo-Talithsscum would wait until L-1 is choice words. The entire fact you jumped off when I jumped on only serves the scum. If you were ever as a townie that Peabody was scum, you wouldn't care who was on the wagon.

This goes for Charter as well.

Leaving a strong bandwagon when someone with an easy lynch joins is scummy as hell. I can't wait until you push this back on me.

[CoCo]

Seriously Mathcam? Are you going to backpedal when anyone can look here:

I think there's either 2 or 3 scum in this game

(with a predilection towards 2)

, so a random player in the game would be about 20/80. A coinflip (i.e. 50/50) would be an

extremely

scummy player -- CoCo is the only one I'd put near those levels, but I see some merit in the arguments in keeping CoCo alive. Tally I don't have much of a read on at all -- I honestly think she's just semi-lurking.

Also, sif?

Cam

Emphasis mine.

And what's with this 'First time around' crap?

[CoCo]

I'd also like to add this 'keeping me alive' crap is an obvious scum maneuver for endgame. Keep a jumpy player alive. Haha.

Die scum. All of you. You're now forced with either killing me now and a town flip or saving me for endgame in which I call you out.

[CoCo]

No, I think the 'first time around'

CRAP

is gaming the mod. People are making reads over the "pre-game show."

And its just not right, is it?

[CoCo]

Charter, ignoring someone is anti-town. Scum get busted that way. Funny my #1 suspect is 'ignoring me'.
You are a far better lynch than Peabody.

[CoCo]

I realize that my motivations can be misconstrued to be identical to that of my main suspects, CB... but I'm not voting Talitha. I'd be happy with lynching her or Charter today and plan to move my vote to whichever is a more likely lynch.

[CoCo]

Okay, but why would I want to be on a wagon in which two obvscum jumped ship?

Is it not safe to assume that Talitha and Charter led the wagon and bailed after it was clear a possible lynch would occur?

I'm preventing said lynch and pointing fingers at them. My vote went back to my previous suspect.

Is that scummy?

[CoCo]

Well, I think we can all agree this game is getting somewhere.

- Scummy as he may be, I have been quite vocal about my thoughts concerning Mathcam; Charter's case is strong.

-Because of the above, I think Talitha would be my choice lynch today. As others have said, she's obviously following the thread regardless of her appeals to emotion (I gotz 3 kidz, yo!) and subsequent responses to any and all mentions of her name. In fact, I'll go so far to say she's searching new pages using Ctrl+F. Not cool.

-Cyberbob is absolutely town.

-Peabody is probably town.

-Vaya should either contribute or replace out.

[CoCo]

You're right. I was just using an example of her appeals. I'm sure she does have kids and bring RL stuff is probably uncalled for.

But my point stands.

[CoCo]

566 is in response to 564.

[CoCo]

LOL!
Charter and Talitha are now ignoring me! Yay!

Mini 835: Mafia is Coming to Town! is almost done. Read that game if you enjoy my super-cool behavior.

Unvote. Vote Talitha.

[CoCo]

Hoopla, did you not notice the part in which I went back through the game and noticed that CB wasn't lying?

Huzzah, Sens ignores me too!

I swear, you guys are idiots if you haven't read my games.

[CoCo]

Rather than this spiralling into a mindless semantics debate, can you please just give me a summary of your current thoughts on Peabody? Because I don't really know.

Peabody made a late RVS vote.
Peabody defended the RVS vote.

A wagon forms...

Talitha and Charter jump off citing craplogic reasons. Makes me think they are scum. Especially the line concerning scum trying to save a scum buddy by stopping the wagon.

If I confuse you, read the last couple of pages.

[CoCo]

So, what are you going to do should I get lynched and flip town?

[CoCo]

No surprise there.
Honestly, meta me. And STFU.

[CoCo]

I disagree.

Should I be lynched and flip town, logically it would follow that I had vague and/or good reasons for the various votes I've made. That, good sir, is valuable town info.

Conversely, scum would have to lynch me as my meta shows my late game play is very strong. In doing so, at this point, they will validate my suspicious.

[CoCo]

So, I must assume no one here has bothered to read my games and instead prefers to insult me as a person.

Fail.

[CoCo]

I still think Charter is scum. Especially from his last few posts. He's trying to get the town behind him before he even explains why he says his target is scum.

Yes, I think Peabody is town.

I'm even more sure Cyberbob is town.

Mathcam could be town. The scummiest thing he's done in my opinion was quote Charter at the beginning of the game when Charter hadn't really made his stance clear aside from a thought.

Sens is neutral.

Talitha's reasons for leaving the Peabody wagon bother me. However someone said that she made it clear it was a temporary vote and after looking it up, its fact.

SC is also neutral for me.

Charter is scum. I've been saying this all game. Yes, my case sucks. Its hard for me to pick out every little thing he's done and form a logical case. Suffice to say those little things do add up.

Its possible Cathart is scum. I plan to do an ISO-read today or tomorrow.

Le Chat is neutral.

Vaya is also neutral.

I'm leaning town on Hoopla.

For those listed as neutral, its because they haven't posted enough for me to get a good read on them.

[CoCo]

Forgot I was still voting Talitha.

Unvote.

[CoCo]

Considering I'm off the wagon and happen to be reasonably against Peabody being scum. I'll go ahead and say claim or die Peabody.

[CoCo]

My apologies for not posting the last few days. Beer + football = stay off the internet.

I still think Charter is scum. Its not a stance I'm going to be changing. Can I make a case against him to convince people a Charter lynch is a good lynch? No, and I wish I could.

Concerning my behavior regarding Peabody; I truly thought he was town. Because the town wanted him lynched, I didn't see anything wrong in being the one to hammer him. Why would I? If I hammered him and he flipped town, I'd be called out on hammering a townie. If I hammered and he flipped scum, I'd be called out for lynching a scumbuddy. I clearly had nothing to lose.

Am I scum? Of course not. Has my play this game been good? Negative. But saying my behavior where Charter is concerned amounts to nothing but eye-rolling isn't going to help the town win. And I therefore refuse to let go of my lynch candidate simply because its a case involving too many subtleties and not a lot of hard evidence.

[CoCo]

@ Le Chat: Yeah, I'll try to make a case out of my general thoughts. Probably by the end of the day. One of his posts I think people should take a look at is iso-Charter #43.

I am pretty sure Peabody is scum and two of the people not voting him and ignoring him are his buddies. This list to include

mathcam
Col.Cathart
Talitha
SerialClergyman
le Chat
SensFan

I really have absolutely no clue how all of these people seem to have nothing to say AT ALL about Peabody, and he is sitting at L-1. You all need to state whether you think Peabody is scum or not, and why.

After thinking about this this morning, I am going to pull a 180.

unvote

Upon further reflection, while many people are ignoring Peabody, there really isn't anyone trying to stop his lynch, which I would expect to happen if he was scum. Seems unlikely his buddies would leave him to the vultures without hardly a word or a last minute bus attempt. Also, Col.Cathart asking him to claim after saying he doesn't find Peabody scummy made my scumdar go berserk with this poor attempt at rolefishing.

Also, my main Peabodyscum theory stems almost entirely from Col.Cathartscum, so it would be dumb on my part to lynch Peabody first, especially since he's looked way more pro town recently.

Will continue this post when I get back from dinner and proceed in voting mathcam.

Shortly before this post, Talitha also stepped off the Peabody wagon. I jumped all over both Charter and her for it. However, after reading her posts concerning the issue while knowing she was town, its clear she was wavering between SC and Peabody.
This makes it more likely for Charter to be scum. He would know Talitha was town and used that information to leave a scumbuddy's wagon. When the scum killed Talitha, I will stake money it was done to make this play by Charter appear more
town.
Whether I'm right or not, the above example is one of the more suspicious behaviors Charter has exhibited recently. There are a few other scummy things of note in that post. But they are more blatant than my own theory about it and therefore shouldn't be hard for others to pick up on.

@Cathart: Suffice to say, because my behavior seems to get a lot of people riled up, it wouldn't matter what Peabody's alignment had been upon his lynch. Yes, I was wrong about him being town, but there would still be plenty of animosity and suspicion of me regardless whether I hammered or not. Because I had nothing to lose, would it not be best for me to make the killing blow?

[CoCo]

I suppose I'll just point it out anyway.
Charter says:

"Also, my main Peabodyscum theory stems almost entirely from Col.Cathartscum, so it would be dumb on my part to lynch Peabody first, especially since he's looked way more pro town recently.

Will continue this post when I get back from dinner and proceed in voting mathcam."

If its dumb to vote for Peabody instead of Cathart, why did you decide to go eat dinner before coming back and voting for Mathcam? Just who is your main suspect?

Charter has been pulling crap like this the entire game.

Also, his reasoning for leaving the Peabody wagon looks to me like a thinly veiled attempt to clear Peabody.

[CoCo]

Am I voting for Charter?

unvote

I think Sens is Peabody's scumbuddy!

I won't rule out Charter, ever. Yet the fact Sens, after much stalling brings the WIFOM to a point is suspicious.

You can think what you want about me... but please take a look at Peabodyscum and Sens' use of it.

[CoCo]

Vote: Sensfan

.

I simply cannot believe Sens would bring up the WIFOM situation imposed by Peabody.
My theory is scum may have planned for such a thing. "If you get lynched, name a townie as scumbuddy."
I honestly can't say whether via is scum or not. His posting dropped off quite suddenly after the quote war early in this game.
What I can say, is Sens appears to be sticking to what I perceive as a scum plan to lead the town into a mislynch.

Instead of these talked about policy lynches, let's just concentrate on nailing scum. WIFOM is a scum tactic. Peabody tried it, he flipped scum. Sensfan brings it back up.

Not on my watch...

[CoCo]

Via = Vaya.

[CoCo]

Ummm, no. You're looking way too deep into my words and changing the nature of my point.

Let me make this simple for you; what do you think of Sensfan after he brought up the WIFOM situation a confirmed scum made for us?

[CoCo]

I agree with Mathcam's plan. But after Vaya's recent post, I'm not sure where this leaves the situation.

I'm still keeping my vote on Sens, however.

[CoCo]

I think Vaya should claim, we lynch Sens (or anybody, for that matter), and if there's a cop out there, they can check Vaya.

[CoCo]

WTF?
A page ago, everyone was saying Vaya should fullclaim. Now all of a sudden its scummy to suggest it?

[CoCo]

I have no problem with you asking Vaya to claim. That doesn't need a rod.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[CoCo]

No, if I was fishing, I'd have said the cop should reveal the results.

[CoCo]

I can't believe no one thinks Charter is scummy after his recent play.

[CoCo]

Why isn't it believable?

[CoCo]

Charter = scum.

[CoCo]

Charter = scum.

Based on what?

His flip-flopping, for one.

Iso-read his posts.

[CoCo]

I'll add that an astute reader should pay attention to my beef with an early bandwagon...

[CoCo]

Not very cool on your part.

My only flip-flop was on Peabody. I chased Charter, and continue to do so now. Charter chased Cathart!

I'm vanilla town! There is no reason to not vote for me. But in doing so, we lose.

Vote: Charter.

[CoCo]

Yes, I claimed.

Think about it... Charter has been pushing to ignore me. I made a decent point pages ago. because of my early play (in which I remarked about), people followed.

Charter IS scum.

[CoCo]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 19#1878919

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 26#1878926

[CoCo]

I'll bet Hoopla is also scum.

[CoCo]

Charter continues to ignore me. Does no one think it odd that I bring something up in which Charter must respond and he pushes the town to ignore me as well.

Le Chat made an excellent point. I don't have much of a read on him, but its good to know he didn't discard my posts.

As for pro-town reads; I'm sticking to Cyberbob being town. I'm also willing to bump Mathcam up a couple notches.

I don't like Hoopla blindly following Charter. When you stop to consider the 'weird' bandwagon and both her and Charter basically defending each other... you'll see what I mean.

As for Vaya, I'm not sure what to do about it. Lots of lurking and not fit for an end-game situation, but I don't think I'm willing to lynch him at this point.

[CoCo]

Early reports show that you did.

[CoCo]

I got off the Peabody wagon?
Didn't Charter do so as well? For more ambiguous reasons?

[CoCo]

In most situations I've encountered, a two-player scum team is usually caused by the presence of an SK. I see no evidence to suggest one here. Therefore, I see know reason to suspect two scum.