Open 151 - Vengeful Mafia - Game over before 802

[semioldguy]

/confirm

[semioldguy]

Vote: ZazieR

Happy and vengeful don't go together very well.

[semioldguy]

...so the females are ganging up on me huh?

[semioldguy]

No... definitely not hammertime.

Unvote; Vote: Infection

[semioldguy]

Because Kise unvoted Infection and Infection still hadn't posted yet.

[semioldguy]

I didn't evaluate whether or not that vote would have put me under the least scrutiny or not, nor would I ever. It wasn't a serious vote as I didn't think there was a solid case for anyone yet.

[semioldguy]

I really don't have any more of an answer for why I changed my vote. If I had a solid reason, it would have been a serious vote. The reason that I already posted is as deep as it goes.

[semioldguy]

Because Kise unvoted Infection and Infection still hadn't posted yet.

So, you were going with the vote that would put you under the least scrutiny?

...or did you not want someone to drop the hammer vote on your (possible) scumbuddy ZazieR?

I don't know where you get this argument. Scum won't hammer an innocent in that situation because they will get shot as that is not a move town would make when still on page one and arguably not even out of the random voting stage. If we are scum buddies then a Vengeful Townie wouldn't hammer in that situation either because there is no evidence whatsoever that the player they just hammered is scum and if they are not, they just lost the game for town on page one.

I really don't have any more of an answer for why I changed my vote. If I had a solid reason, it would have been a serious vote. The reason that I already posted is as deep as it goes.

Ok, though this gives me the impression that there's more behind it:

Because Kise unvoted Infection and Infection still hadn't posted yet.

How do you get the impression that there is more behind it?

Good to know 3 of you are familiar with each other's playstyles though. Can you guys share whether you think any of you 3 are playing/acting differently?

Not really, unfortunately. The only game I have with Zazier is ongoing with both of us alive. With Sotty7, the completed game we have she replaced in late on Day One, while I died Night One, so there wasn't much there to go on; she was scum while I was town in that game. Our other game is still ongoing with both of us alive. It's really too early to determine if one of them would be playing differently yet anyway.

[semioldguy]

Off-topic @Kise: Just request to be a replacement for the Death Note game and follow along when it starts. There is typically a replacement or two that will be needed near the beginning of the larger games anyway. Or PM the mod to ask for a special request/exception.

[semioldguy]

"Because Kise unvoted Infection" gives me the impression that you think they might have the same allignment aka being scum together.
Though it can also be an extra part to the second part explained below.
"Infection still hadn't posted yet" gives me the impression that you wanted to pressure him with this vote in order for him to start posting.

I don't see any links that can conclusively be made between any two players yet. As I saw it, it was still the random voting stage.

Infection: You still haven't made a vote. If you had to make a vote in your next post who would be the most likely person you'd vote for?

[semioldguy]

"Because Kise unvoted Infection" gives me the impression that you think they might have the same allignment aka being scum together.
Though it can also be an extra part to the second part explained below.
"Infection still hadn't posted yet" gives me the impression that you wanted to pressure him with this vote in order for him to start posting.

I don't see any links that can conclusively be made between any two players yet. As I saw it, it was still the random voting stage.

So, it was not a pressure vote for him to post? Just random?
(asking for clarification)

No, it was not a pressure vote for him to post.

[semioldguy]

Infection: You still haven't made a vote. If you had to make a vote in your next post who would be the most likely person you'd vote for?

I know you're in the hotseat, so to speak, but I just want to step in and say how much I don't like this question. It seems like a way to flip the script on someone. And I don't mean to defend Infection, but there's no telling if he's even willing to vote for someone. Everyone could be townie in his eyes.

I don't really consider myself to be in the hotseat. Sure, I have two votes, but they were both placed there in the random voting stage. I'm not too concerned right now about those votes being there at such an early stage of the game.

Infection is the only one that hadn't placed a vote at some point or other and I thought it be good for him to share his opinion. As far as the possible viewpoint of everyone being town in someone's eyes, that should not be the case for the town. Town players should be suspicious of everyone since the town knows the alignments of no one aside from themselves. If everyone looks townie to someone, I'd mark that as a slight scum tell, as they know who all the innocents are and may find it hard to push a case on players they know to be innocent, but also would not want to bus their partner.

Unvote

[semioldguy]

Also I haven't read up on previous 5P Vengeful games, and this is my first time playing in one.

[semioldguy]

On the flipside, Infection has either proven himself to be town by not being hasty, or SOG was protective of ZazieR for a good reason.

How would this prove him to be town? I don't think scum would be any more likely of being hasty than town as far as hammering is concerned at the very beginning of the day.

[semioldguy]

ZazieR,

the main reason I am not voting is because there is more to be found out.

You can't vote early on when you're not 100% sure that the lynch would count.. Do you want me to make a hasty vote? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

By voting, it can help to find more things out.

[semioldguy]

Can we get a prod on infection?

@Kise
How is Infection playing less suspiciously then the rest of us when he really hasn't even done anything this game?

[semioldguy]

Vote: Kise

@SOG - He's asking questions to shed light on things he personally feels are scummy, while that leaves you having to defend yourself instead of countering him by asking questions of your own. And since we're on that topic, if you COULD ask Infection anything, what would it be? There doesn't seem like he's done much wrong so far... But I'll ask him a question first.

I already did ask Infection a question of my own, and it was while he was questioning me. Saying that you will ask him a question first is not accurate. It is also inaccurate to say that him questioning me only leaves me to defend myself and unable to ask him questions of my own. Furthermore, the question you ask him is not relevant to information about the game, as where he has been is not indicative of his alignment here.

@Sotty - I knew my opinion about Infection would be interpreted as me being 100% sure he's town. That's not the case at all. In other words, I just view him as being

less panicky than everyone else; SOG in particular.

Where do you feel that I have been panicky? Please point it out and explain why you think it is panicky.

[semioldguy]

Does answering the questions people ask of me indicate panic? If so, why? And if not, then what makes those posts panicky?

I'll request another time... please

point out

and

explain why

you think it is panicky in places where you think it is panicky.

[semioldguy]

Is that an OMGUS vote, or a pressure-vote?

This is a false dilemma, as the question implies that those are the only two answers when, in fact, they are not.

[semioldguy]

Does answering the questions people ask of me indicate panic? If so, why? And if not, then what makes those posts panicky?

Panic = A state when your back is against the wall and you sub-consciously develop a narrow mindset.

You have an incorrect definition of panic. "panic - a sudden overwhelming fear, with or without cause, that produces hysterical or irrational behavior, and that often spreads quickly through a group of persons or animals." Point out where my behavior is hysterical/irrational or where I appear to be fearful.

You've grown a 1-track mind since all you've been doing when replying to hard-hitting questions/concerns (from others) is say things only to make yourself appear clean/townie. Add to that the fact that you make frequent 1-sentence posts and it becomes clear that you don't care to contribute anything heavy to the game, EXCEPT for when you are in the hotseat and need to clean your image, again.

I am only answering the questions they ask, it is up to the other players to decide whether or not my answer reflect that of a town or scum alignment. I've already explained that I didn't feel that I was in the hotseat. I can't know if my responses will clean my image or not.

No, it was not a pressure vote for him to post.

That was all you cared to comment on at the time. You found nothing else about anybody that you thought was worth mentioning? And if the reason you found nothing else on anybody worth mentioning is because nobody had done or said anything for you to be concerned about, then you NEED to deliver more pro-active posts that will move this game along, rather than sitting on the bench and waiting for opportunities when people directly speak to you.

If it weren't for people addressing you, then I'd bet it'd be likely of you to become a lurker.

Progression is the only way we can make this small game fun, honestly.

That post of mine was a response to a question, not a comment on the game state. The bolded text is baseless speculation that you have no evidence to prove.

By voting, it can help to find more things out.

Right here, you could have broadened this post with a better explanation of how voting helps to find "things" out. This comment is so vague and does not paint any kind of picture at all. If you are a townie & voting helps you find out things, then let us into your mindset. There's no reason to be secretive because the mafia cannot NK you, so it's best to try and help the other two Town players find scum by announcing your viewpoint on things. The only thing I've gotten from your voting is that it's either random, or only used against someone such as myself who wants to assess your motives (a.k.a. an OMGUS vote) because we want to know whether you're scum or not.

I could say the same of you in that you didn't explain why your course of action is more likely to find things out either. Voting provides the best way for town to be accountable for their suspicions, by holding you vote until others develop suspicion it is a good way for scum to stay back until they see an argument they like and simply follow it. It makes them less accountable for their vote and makes it easier to slip on and off since they can wait to use reasoning other than their own.

You don't have a strong focus on scumhunting, although you'll ask a few questions here and there (that don't go answered, might I point out). By having a weak approach to scumhunting in a 5-person game, you will only keep us in a stalled day phase. Before today (IRL), it didn't seem like you were even interested in getting down to business.

Who do you feel has been scum hunting most this game, which others players if any do you feel haven't been scum hunting as much? These accusations can apply just as much to other players in the game as they apply to me, so why are you focusing on me for them?

Infection: You still haven't made a vote. If you had to make a vote in your next post who would be the most likely person you'd vote for?

The importance of this question is...? I don't see what you plan to achieve here. If Infection says he felt like voting for someone besides yourself, then this is only a way (or rather, a diversion) into getting Infection and the other person into a possible chaotic war of words & finger pointing. If you're scum, then I find this to be your way of introducing a distraction. If you're town, I am not sure what kind of lead you wanted or expected from this. It's not the kind of question I even imagine myself asking unless I was mafia trying to employ smoke & mirrors long enough to get the heat off of me. The fact remains, however, that Infection is the one who NEEDS to address any and every question directed at him. He needs to answer this question how he wants... but that's not stopping me from butting in to try and understand your motives, SOG. I'd expect you not to sit back and let others do all the talking neither, if that was ever the case.

I find not voting to be an anti-town action. It has been explained why voting is good for the town.

I'm surprised I have not become restless, as far as this thread goes. No one else is throwing out any heavy-hitting material and it feels like this is nothing more than a twitter page, being used to update everyone on your timing and how busy you are. Sure, I'm guilty of also updating everyone back when I commented on the Death Note mafia sign-up situation, but at least I'm trying to get to the bottom of this with MORE than 1-line post, or "activity" post, as I call them. Get butthurt if you guys/gals want to, but I'm telling you all how I feel about you and your "contributions" to this game.

This just further strengthens my point that much of what you are criticizing me for, is applicable to all the other players here as well, yet you find me more likely to be scum for those reasons than you do of the other players.

None of the above explains why any of my posts demonstrate panic.

[semioldguy]

Furthermore, the question you ask him is not relevant to information about the game, as where he has been is not indicative of his alignment here.

O rly? Yeah, I knew it wouldn't help determine his alignment.. then again, it actually could, depending on wheher he gave a ludicrous answer or not. That's besides the point, and there is NO need for you or anyone else to focus on me asking Infection where he's at. It's

obviously

a question that was not designed to get much out of him other than a progressive/activity post, but I do want him to GTF back in here or be replaced. We can't determine whether someone is town or mafia if they don't give us reason to believe them as either.

It appears to me that you set your question up to look as if you were asking him a game relevant question before I could.

[semioldguy]

I am voting for you because I find you to be the most suspicious thus far in the game.

You are mischaracterizing my position and jumping to conclusions about both me and other players with no factual basis to back up your assumptions. You are not voting, which is fine if you are most suspicious of me, but otherwise bad. You are borderline-chainsaw defending Infection and holding him as likely town when there is no basis from his play to determine that and are making assumptions about his motivations.

[semioldguy]

The only reason I put so much attention on you is because you're the only one giving any life to this thread, so by default I am trying to go back-and-forth with you, since you're the only other player I can attempt to evaluate.

Keeping things going between us is would make it easier for the other three players to just sit back even more and become observers in my opinion. It doesn't force them to do this, nor does this have to be their course of action, but it makes it easier for them to do. If you have a problem with the level of their contributions being too low, then I think you are only facilitating their low level of contribution.

[semioldguy]

Just because I had a lot of back-and-forth with SOG does not mean it's okay for the rest of you to sit back. As long as SOG questioned me, I would respond and in-turn question him as well.. That's how back-and-forth discussion works. And, from me having that intimate, 3-day long discussion with SOG, I got to know him better... So as far as I'm concerned, him & I are entitled to take a break from letting the focus be on us, especially since everyone else COULD have thrown their thoughts/evaluations out there BEFORE I called them out.

Though I think us solely going back and forth could use a break to keep others from more easily lurking; I disagree with your sentiment that we are entitled to letting there be a break in the focus on either of us. Neither of us is currently entitled to a break from focus.

[semioldguy]

Seconded on the above post. I find it odd how you felt it necessary to go as in depth about the role you replaced into but not mention any of the other players. Any speculation about Infestation's motives are simply that, speculation, as we can never truly know the motives behind it or what the responses to our questions would actually be. And speculation in this sense doesn't contribute to scum hunting as much it distracts from it.

[semioldguy]

I'm here as well. Waiting for more content (or any content) from ZazieR and OrangePenguin.

Unvote; Vote: ZazieR

It's hard to believe an excuse like that when I know you've been very active in another game I am in with you. This game is nowhere near as intensive as that one in regards to the reading requirement.

[semioldguy]

@ZazieR
Other games will not be as likely to stall without your participation. This game has only five players and your lack of participation hinders the game here much more than it probably would elsewhere. If you can't be bothered to give attention to this game, then please replace out so that we can have someone who will.

[semioldguy]

ZazieR, why do you come here to address the points Kise made against you on this page, and then do nothing else in regards to this game? You are obviously checking the game and reading the more recent posts, don't you have anything of substance to contribute? Your responses to him don't solve the problem. It's been almost two days since you've said that an update would be coming soon. You've continued to be active in the games you've been active in all along while still ignoring this game.

[semioldguy]

HoS: OrangePenguin

Why was ZazieR scum?

[semioldguy]

Both Sotty7 and I voted for Kise. You were the only one who hadn't. You've kept yourself from having any interaction with anyone on day one, which seems very scummy to me.