Open 151 - Vengeful Mafia - Game over before 802

[ZazieR]

Happosai is happy to get started, and /confirms me

[ZazieR]

Vote semioldguy

Obv a disciple of Happosai. Luckily both me and Sotty found out before we could be Happosaied. Feel the power of those who oppose Happosai

[ZazieR]

...so the females are ganging up on me huh?

Obv. I've told her about the horrors of Happosai's last disciple. If you want to know what he did, he made 'art' >.<
Every disciple of Happosai is EVIL, and they must be stopped, as must Happosai

[ZazieR]

Hmm...

Unvote
Vote: ZazieR

Hammertime?

Somebody is eager.
What's your reason for both your vote and your question?

[ZazieR]

No... definitely not hammertime.

Unvote; Vote: Infection

Wait. I saw the wrong username when I posted the previous posts (I thought you voted Kise). Why are you voting Infection?

[ZazieR]

I was to testing Infection's integrity.

uhm, I'm Dutch. So I have no idea what you are saying here, as integrity has three different meanings according to my dictionary. So can you rephrase it?
Also, he has responded, so did he or did he not 'pass the test'? And why?

[ZazieR]

Because Kise unvoted Infection and Infection still hadn't posted yet.

Ok, I don't see how that warrants a vote, so could you explan that?

[ZazieR]

What I meant by integrity is honesty/heart/sincerity.

He knew what I was looking for him to do

, so it's hard to say whether I found out what I wanted to test.

Unvote

We need more discussion.

Um... darkwing duck is cool.

Can you clarify the bolded?

[ZazieR]

I didn't evaluate whether or not that vote would have put me under the least scrutiny or not, nor would I ever. It wasn't a serious vote as I didn't think there was a solid case for anyone yet.

If it wasn't a serious vote, then why did you change your vote?

[ZazieR]

Ok ZazieR, Infection knew I was looking to see if he'd put the final vote on either you or semi. I thought that should have been obvious.

Give me another day and I'll have millions of questions for you as well, ZazieR...

Well, he didn't. If he knew, then you know that he didn't want to hammer SOG. And based from his reaction to your vote against me, I get the impression that he was also against a hammervote against me. So what did you learn from this?
Also, what reason(s) does he have to place a hammervote this early according to you?

[ZazieR]

EBWOP for clarification:

Ok ZazieR, Infection knew I was looking to see if he'd put the final vote on either you or semi. I thought that should have been obvious.

Give me another day and I'll have millions of questions for you as well, ZazieR...

Well, he didn't

hammer

. If he knew, then you know that he didn't want to hammer SOG. And based from his reaction to your vote against me, I get the impression that he was also against a hammervote against me. So what did you learn from this?
Also, what reason(s) does he have to place a hammervote this early according to you?

[ZazieR]

Because Kise unvoted Infection and Infection still hadn't posted yet.

So, you were going with the vote that would put you under the least scrutiny?

...or did you not want someone to drop the hammer vote on your (possible) scumbuddy ZazieR?

I noticed you voted for each other in the RVS, which looks kind of weird to me.

I can't speak for SOG, but most of the time, I vote somebody in the RVS who I know. In this case, only SOG and Sotty were possible for this.
SOG was the lucky one as he's obv a disciple of Happosai.

[ZazieR]

I really don't have any more of an answer for why I changed my vote. If I had a solid reason, it would have been a serious vote. The reason that I already posted is as deep as it goes.

Ok, though this gives me the impression that there's more behind it:

Because Kise unvoted Infection and Infection still hadn't posted yet.

[ZazieR]

Typically, I would think scum like to speed things up with a lynch. I have never played a game with Infection, or any of you for that matter. It was my way of seeing who would be hasty to get things over with, but also my way of seeing if Infection was somehow in cahoots with anyone.

I.E., if Infection & SOG were mafia, then you'd think that Infection would not vote for SOG but instead go for Zaz'. But I also wanted to see if someone would unvote because they were perhaps trying to save their buddy (more specifically the Godfather). Perhaps, as I said, not definitely.

Good to know 3 of you are familiar with each other's playstyles though. Can you guys share whether you think any of you 3 are playing/acting differently?

I can only think of one player who hammers without a reason. At other times, it isn't done by both town and scum players as it's only bad for your side. So I don't think it's a good indication of anything.

And yeah, I've played with Sotty and SOG, but my game with SOG is ongoing and Sotty has been a long time ago in which I even scumhunted differently.

[ZazieR]

And yeah, that it's a vengeful set-up makes it even less likely that a player will hammer without a reason or this early.

[ZazieR]

I really don't have any more of an answer for why I changed my vote. If I had a solid reason, it would have been a serious vote. The reason that I already posted is as deep as it goes.

Ok, though this gives me the impression that there's more behind it:

Because Kise unvoted Infection and Infection still hadn't posted yet.

How do you get the impression that there is more behind it?

"Because Kise unvoted Infection" gives me the impression that you think they might have the same allignment aka being scum together.
Though it can also be an extra part to the second part explained below.
"Infection still hadn't posted yet" gives me the impression that you wanted to pressure him with this vote in order for him to start posting.

[ZazieR]

As for ZazieR, I remember playing with her but I think it was quite awhile back now, I don't quite remember the game off hand. Do you ZazieR?

:rara:
At least somebody remembered me.
Mini 656

[ZazieR]

Didn't even notice there were females here... caught me off guard when you two referred to each other as "her" & "she."

*glare*


As for your question, I don't know as this is my first vengeful outside marathon vengeful games.

[ZazieR]

"Because Kise unvoted Infection" gives me the impression that you think they might have the same allignment aka being scum together.
Though it can also be an extra part to the second part explained below.
"Infection still hadn't posted yet" gives me the impression that you wanted to pressure him with this vote in order for him to start posting.

I don't see any links that can conclusively be made between any two players yet. As I saw it, it was still the random voting stage.

So, it was not a pressure vote for him to post? Just random?
(asking for clarification)

[ZazieR]

Why is that weird? In the random stage I often see people "random" vote each other.

I always wonder why it's called the RVS, because the votes aren't really random, unless you're rolling a dice, which neither Zazie nor semioldguy did.
It's weird because there's always a reason behind a "random" vote. That reason could be distancing since the vote was reciprocated. No, it's not a strong scumtell, but it's something.

Your defense of SOG/Zazie is noted.

Infection: You still haven't made a vote. If you had to make a vote in your next post who would be the most likely person you'd vote for?

It's a tie between you and Zazie, but probably Zazie since you're at L-1.

Like I already said here, I indeed had a reason why I chose SOG above the others.

Also, what's your reason why it's a tie between me and SOG?

[ZazieR]

Infection: You still haven't made a vote. If you had to make a vote in your next post who would be the most likely person you'd vote for?

I know you're in the hotseat, so to speak, but I just want to step in and say how much I don't like this question. It seems like a way to flip the script on someone. And I don't mean to defend Infection, but there's no telling if he's even willing to vote for someone. Everyone could be townie in his eyes.

It won't do any good to try to find connections in this game because in the last VM threads I read, the mafia usually don't even show their cooperation in public. It's a certain mindset that they get into, so the best bet to nail mafia would be to watch for slips.

Anyone else read up on old VM games? What kind of hints would you offer, if you have read up?

I noticed that the Godfather is the most humble/quiet one in the bunch.

Well, he answered SOG's questions, so I don't see why that first part was needed when you could just look at his answers to see if what you think might be true. He has said that he'd either vote me or SOG, but most likely me as SOG is L-1.

And I haven't read up to old VM games. But you've noticed that the GF is the most humble/quiet, so why aren't you questioning the more quiet players in this game?

[ZazieR]

ZazieR - Wants clarification a lot, lol... From what I gather, you assume there's a connection between Infection & myself (if that's the case, what I have to say about Infection may not help to dispel this notion). It took her a while to figure out why I put her in L-1 (my little test). I'm more surprised no one asked why I didn't just drop the hammer on SOG since he was already in L-1. In fact... isn't he still in L-1? I have a neutral viewpoint on ZazieR.

Nope, I did not assume such connection. I mentioned this pair due to SOG's vote reason. It seemed to me as if he thought of such pair.
The reason why it took me a while to find out about 'your test' was because you didn't address his response. You also kept your vote after Infection's post.
And yes, he's still at L-1.

[ZazieR]

EDWOP

Also, I got good news, gang: I got accepted to play Death Note mafia!!!

Obv, I already knew

[ZazieR]

Consider the rules -- Automatic win for town if GF is lynched; otherwise, town wins when all mafia threats are eliminated.

In the scenario that Infection is mafia, he could have hammered a townie. From there, the VT would either kill Infection for being hasty (obv-scum) or tried to somehow guess who Infection's partner is, despite the fact that Infection had not shown teamwork with anyone else since it was his 1st post. Thing is, the VT would have had no traces as to who else besides Infection could be mafia, so if Infection was killed by the VT, then his scum partner could still have lived on and played with the other 2, knowing that a connection-link with Infection was non-existent. From there, the remaining mafia could do his part to ensure he wasn't lynched and also try to convince the VT of not killing him.

Maybe it's just the way I'm thinking, but in the situation I purposely set up for Infection on page 1, I would have taken the hammer if I was thinking like mafia.

So that's why I say Infection may have proven he's town. But let's not put words in anyone's mouth.

I find it strange that you think this logic is true, as I already found an example that this isn't true during my first attempt at finding an example (sorta, as said scum player is one of the players who can get lynched, which was what happened):
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1593988

Each player thinks different. What you'd have done in that situation, doesn't mean that each player would have done that. Besides, this could have been planned.
I don't see it as a way to clear Infection.

[ZazieR]

Well like I said, that's just my mindset. I'm Japanese, and we're known for kamikazes......

OK, bad joke.

I gotta ask though, girls: Any reason why SOG is still at L-1?

*shrug* Fixed...
If you're asking why I haven't unvoted, it's because I like bandwagons.

[ZazieR]

What I don't get though, is that it seems that you think that Infection is not mafia. Which means that for you, there should be only 3 suspects left. 2 of them should be scum to you. Yet, you haven't voted one of those 3.
To make it even more strange, is that Sotty didn't hammer me, while she had the chance, and SOG unvoted me, to which you later commented with:

But I do understand where Infection is coming from, because it's as if SOG didn't want to chance ZazieR being lynched.

So why haven't you voted one of the 'remaining' three suspicions?
And why not me when both other two have a link with me?

[ZazieR]

Do you want me to vote for you?

Maybe you took my comments the wrong way. I don't think Infection is town, but he's leaning closer to being town than the rest of you.

And as for how zwet' played... He's a known noob (or alt).. He failed the martyr thing, so that's on him.

ZazieR, the main reason I am not voting is because there is more to be found out. You can't vote early on when you're not 100% sure that the lynch would count.. Do you want me to make a hasty vote? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

And with me having 3 people who I suspect more than Infection, that means that 2 would be scum, one would be town. So like I said, there is more to be found out. BUT, I am not saying Infection is definitely town. He just plays less suspiciously than the rest of us.

If you are asking why I asked you all this, it's because scum have to fake their suspicions. Townies follow their thoughts more than scum as they have nothing to hide.
It also gives a clearer image where your suspicions lie.

I'll get back to this post some other time. I have to think about your answers.

[ZazieR]

If you are asking why I asked you all this, it's because scum have to fake their suspicions. Townies follow their thoughts more than scum as they have nothing to hide.

This is why townies mislynch a lot, and how the term "Terrible Townie" came to be. But to each their own; you have your experiences & beliefs, just as I have mine.

Thanks for that compliment...

[ZazieR]

I think we need a prod on ZazieR.

Explanation: I update during the day, I do other things during the night >.<
I have to plan a lot >.<

I'll read this game tomorrow.

[ZazieR]

Prod received.
Expect a post with content soon. I''ve been busy with housework as my father has been sick >.<

[ZazieR]

I'm here as well. Waiting for more content (or any content) from ZazieR and OrangePenguin.

Unvote; Vote: ZazieR

It's hard to believe an excuse like that when I know you've been very active in another game I am in with you. This game is nowhere near as intensive as that one in regards to the reading requirement.

And how do you know if this is an excuse?
Note my posts on wednesday in that game. The time stamps show that I was busy with housework as I didn''t respond immediatly, while I normally do.
Saturday in my post history shows that I was very busy as I didn''t post in the morning and in the evening.
Sunday I paid mostly attention to one game.
And since yesterday, I''m updating all of my games for the coming few days.

As for why I''m active in Death Note, that''s because I don''t want to get behind as it would mean that I have to read a lot.
Yes, I''m lazy, check other games (like our very first game) or my third (I think) game with Kise. All of these show this as well.
You should know this, and the fact that you unvote your top suspicion to get somebody to post of whom you know that she doesn''t give every game of her full attention, tells something about your allignment here.

Update coming soon.

[ZazieR]

Read, yes. Analyse, no.

[ZazieR]

Because?

[ZazieR]

Stop simulposting!

FoS on you for having time to analyze, as you put it, in other games (the two of us are in 3 or 4 other games I think). This is the smallest game you & I are a part of, so even though you explained yourself, I still don't see how you can't comment on a stalling game.

Exactly how much analyzation do you plan to post in this thread?

I always try to analyse each post.

[ZazieR]

Damnit, me wanted to ask first to Semi and Kise before I get lynched why I shouldn''t kill him, but the other.
Now, OP is added for that very bad hammer.

But the obv choice:

Shoot Kise

For that very bad reason for a vote. If you wanted to know if it''s a scumtactic, you could have asked for my meta. Heck, you could even have checked my wiki as my games are mentioned there.

And if OP is town, I don''t know what to think.

[ZazieR]

Sotty, does this mean I may now be angry at OP again?

[ZazieR]

Deja vu...
But well played Sotty. You were the only one at the end of who I thought was pro-town. And yeah, I played bad due to being lazy...

[ZazieR]

That''s exactly the reason. You reminded me of Kevin. He''d never vote for such a reason. So you were scum.
OP is OP. And he can expect many votes from me from now on.
SoG had a better reason than you had.

Besides, I wanted to take you to heaven with me. Don''t you like that thought ?

[ZazieR]

You reminded me of Kevin.

How?

Ongoing game.

[ZazieR]

It was a shame this game kinda died out towards the end there. I was really enjoying myself. You did a nice job of tying yourself up with Infection/OP Kise. I was sweating when it came to leaving you at lynch-1 for so long. I had almost convinced myself that Zaz would come back and hammer you.

Thankfully semi pushed the lurker with his vote and the rest is history

I honestly thought that OP was the second scum after Kise flipped. I thought that Kise had told OP to hammer me, so that I''d shoot OP and that Kise would try to convince Sotty to vote SoG instead of him.
But I was totally wrong >.<