Open 133 - Lovers Mafia (Over) before 771

[Korts]

vote: zwet

I hear he's a good D1 policy lynch. Lynch him and let him concentrate on his other games.

[Korts]

Also. Here are the previous Lovers runs; I advise every player to read through them and learn from the mistakes made there. I'm going to read them as well; I seem to remember there being a good D1 tactic that someone mentioned in the first or second run.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9774
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9889
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10288
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10861

[Korts]

Mmm. On a first hunch: zwet-Phily scumteam. Very aghast chainsaw defense against a harmless joke vote.

[Korts]

I haven't read those games yet, I was only encouraging players to read up on the setup.

[Korts]

Mmm. On a first hunch: zwet-Phily scumteam. Very aghast chainsaw defense against a harmless joke vote.

Nothing has happened to change my opinion on this. Willing to lynch zwet. Also note how Phily tries to get a second roll when sekinj's dice indicate that zwet should be lynched.

[Korts]

Mmm. On a first hunch: zwet-Phily scumteam. Very aghast chainsaw defense against a harmless joke vote.

Nothing has happened to change my opinion on this. Willing to lynch zwet. Also note how Phily tries to get a second roll when sekinj's dice indicate that zwet should be lynched.

I've explained my actions, now you're going into tunnel vision. Trust me the game aint that easy. Defending one player doesnt make me scummy, I've sympatised with Zwets place in the policy lynch position for a few games.

A couple points of interest. Does stating twice that I think a zwet-Phily scumteam is what we have on our hands make it tunnel vision? I doubt that. Also, since when do you decide what does or doesn't make you scummy?

Your defense of zwet was disproportionate when considering the fact that my vote was pretty much arbitrary, and it was quite obvious that it wasn't serious.

[Korts]

Mulitating my words so much, you have to be scum.

The difference between accusing me of

going into

tunnel vision and accusing me of tunnel vision is irrelevant to my point.

Please link to games where you were with zwet and he was up for policy lynching.

[Korts]

Instead of random voting or analyzing play style?

I haven't read all the previous Lovers games yet, but I seem to recall that the optimal strategy is a random lynch Day 1.

[Korts]

Hm. Interesting point by sekinj and Lynx. zwet's reaction is unusual indeed, especially since in 57 he accuses Phily of doing something he didn't actually do (fixing dice rolls). It's possible that he saw the pressure on Phily for the initial defense and desperately tried distancing the scumbuddy; then again it's also possible (having learned a thing or two about zwet's play) that he's simply following a case with disproportionate enthusiasm for no particular motive at all.

Not really. I noticed the framing attempt and worked to get it more noticed. *goes off to read Lover's wiki article*

Unfortunately there's no wiki article on it as of now, I think. At least, there wasn't a couple weeks ago when it was certified, nor when it was in signups.

[Korts]

EBWOP: it appears there is, after all, a wiki article. Here.

[Korts]

It looks like a framejob in light of recent posts.

Feel free to explain this thought.

[Korts]

Hm. I'm not really convinced of a zwet-Phily team anymore. We have to consider that scum are lovers, and zwet has shown willingness to go after Phily.

unvote, vote: Phily

I expect your support, zwet.

[Korts]

I expect your support, zwet

I note that you're not voting Phily yet, zwet. Why is that? You have already accused him of framing you.

[Korts]

In regards to the other Zwet thing, policy lynches are really unacceptable to me. I don't find them fair whatsoever. You might want to try to limit your games somewhat, but if you feel you can do it, then nobody has a right to stop you as long as you can keep up.

Finally, someone who isnt an asshole! Agreed 100% and the more adamantly a policy L is pushed for the more I've found Zwet has turned up town. (Theory)

You should note that none of us bar you have talked about a policy lynch since my random and completely non-serious vote. You mischaracterising the wagon on zwet as a policy lynch is way out of line.

In regards to the other Zwet thing, policy lynches are really unacceptable to me. I don't find them fair whatsoever. You might want to try to limit your games somewhat, but if you feel you can do it, then nobody has a right to stop you as long as you can keep up.

Finally, someone who isnt an asshole! Agreed 100% and the more adamantly a policy L is pushed for the more I've found Zwet has turned up town. (Theory)

You call this framing?

No,

you

called this framing back when I was accusing Phily of defending you too obviously. You should make up your mind and be sure to note the change in opinion instead of just having a different stance next time the matter is discussed.

sekinj pushing for this framing gig? Why has everyone else accepted you changed your mind cept her? XD

You say everyone has accepted that zwet changed his mind--when in reality it was not a full spectrum of players posting in between, and Lynx's post probably didn't take into consideration zwet's 117. Also. Appeal to majority is scummy as hell. Just lynch this guy already, people.

Changing opinions is a good thing.

What you also need is a REASON.

[Korts]

I read all the posts carefully, and you managed to avoid giving any kind of reason whatsoever for the change in opinion. Note Exhibits A and B, in order:

I agree with Korts logic, and it looks like Phily is doing exactly what he's describing, but to frame me, not bus me. Also, Santos, usually you're not going to get more than a sentence or two out of me.

In regards to the other Zwet thing, policy lynches are really unacceptable to me. I don't find them fair whatsoever. You might want to try to limit your games somewhat, but if you feel you can do it, then nobody has a right to stop you as long as you can keep up.

Finally, someone who isnt an asshole! Agreed 100% and the more adamantly a policy L is pushed for the more I've found Zwet has turned up town. (Theory)

You call this framing?

Between the first quote and the second, you don't mention Phily and framing.

[Korts]

I'm reading the new stuff now but have nothing really to say, Zwet needs to take time and explain himself at this point.

Ugh. This 180 turn is even worse than zwet's. I can't decide which of you is scummier.

[Korts]

EBWOP: actually, yes I can. Phily is still much worse, and his turn was opportunistic as hell, while zwet's seemed to reflect more of a pro-town thought process.

[Korts]

zwet's meta is only that he has a short attention span. That is easily dismissable. I have no qualms about his play itself.

So. Why is Phily still alive, I ask.

[Korts]

====[]

[]====

<_<

>_>

[Korts]

It's two hammers and a furtive look.

[Korts]

Since this is basically a shot in the dark lynch approaching me, I entice the group to lynch Korts the next day and push out scum after I turn up town.

If this turns out to be true, then we can win the game by lynching Korts and thus killing his partner.

This is a very bad post from Santos, and opportunisticscum as hell. I can understand Phily's position on this, even if his logic is bullshit, but the fact that you support the broken logic without ever mentioning a specific point is a serious tell.

I strongly suspect that you heard the last words of a townie and thought it would be safe to support them and follow up on them after the lynch.

[Korts]

Also, no voting please! If a townie votes another townie here, scum can bandwagon to victory.

[Korts]

That was a request for a hammer and was in no way sneaky or subliminal. Furtive was because I was tired and tried to joke.

Also, if you think that that is a case after seven pages of valuable interactions, then you are gravely mistaken and terrible as scum.

[Korts]

Korts - I dont' like it that you are trying to blame santos for phily's death. you were on the wagon too, plus you asked for a hammer. and now you come back and say that santos is in the wrong for hammering? The last vote on a lynch counts just as much as the first vote.

I take responsibility for my own vote on Phily. His actions toward zwet were all over the map. He didn't suspect zwet until other people pointed out zwet's inconsistancies.

I never blamed Santos for Phily's death, nor did I say that he is in the wrong for hammering; I called him out for opportunistically using Phily's last words as a way to try and lead a righteous crusade against me. I take full responsibility for my role in Phily's death.

[Korts]

I'm thinking in a Santos-sekinj team at the moment, considering sekinj's accusations against me that were downright false in some places; it smells like a chainsaw defense of Santos, and a desperate one at that--she seems to try very hard to throw shit at me.

[Korts]

Funny how both people you suspect attacked you.

It's not

who

they attacked, it's

how

they attacked. Read their arguments and tell me their points are valid and true.

I think zwet is probtown.

[Korts]

I never blamed Santos for Phily's death, nor did I say that he is in the wrong for hammering; I called him out for opportunistically using Phily's last words as a way to try and lead a righteous crusade against me. I take full responsibility for my role in Phily's death.

Well, as I said in what I addressed to santos I dont' agree with that crusade. phily was just a townie, so obviously had no special knowledge. It seemed like you were just going after santos hard for phily's death.

Please feel free to show me which part looked like I was blaming Santos for the lynch. I remember no argument that went in that direction.

[Korts]

Bear in mind, zwet, that there is no room for bussing in this setup, and certainly not at this point.

[Korts]

Bear in mind, zwet, that there is no room for bussing in this setup, and certainly not at this point.

So quick to reply, are we? Nervous scum...

Mmm? I'm quick to reply because I can't sleep and have nothing better to do.

[Korts]

You're right, I stayed up all night to camp out for your post specifically attacking me by pairing me up with a player who's attacking me and whom I am attacking back, just so I can refute your weak point. I predicted all this, yet it is my downfall.

[Korts]

For those of the thickheaded persuasion: note that above is a joke.

[Korts]

Sarcasm is a sarcasticpersontell.

[Korts]

I'll eat my hat if zwet is scum.

[Korts]

I already did. Santos-sekinj.

[Korts]

Santos, you are misrepresenting my argument completely. I never called you opportunistic for lynching Phily, and I never considered you scummy for helping to lynch him. Your opportunism manifested in that you attacked me based on Phily's final words, taking for granted a dead townie's words and expecting others to also follow simply based on the fact that since Phily turned town, his largely invalid arguments had more weight to them than anything else.

Also, I never mentioned "townies blasting each other" in Lovers, all I did was link previous games.

Your point about Lynx-zwet/sekinj is noted, however, and interesting.

I'm very close to voting sekinj at this point. Santos, I'd ask you to unvote for now, we still have sekinj to answer.

[Korts]

As of now sekinj seems the best lynch choice, based on the korts/me/lynx possibilities.

Don't forget the sekinj-Santos pair. Basically everyone still alive has been suspected to be linked to sekinj.

[Korts]

vote: sekinj

[Korts]

Thanks, Lynx, for quoting Santos and reminding me why I suspect him.

unvote, vote: Santos

sekinj is more likely to be town than Santos.

[Korts]

This is a LOVERS game. We don't need to evaluate sekinj's partner's playstyle as long as sek is scum. As everyone is seeing sekinj connected to SOMEBODY it's very likely that sek is scum with someone. The great thing is that we don't have to worry with whom sek is paired up with. A sek lynch is the safest and most surefire option we have.

I am clear on all this. The problem is, if sekinj is town and scum had managed to state ample suspicion of sekinj early on, town will be much more likely to jump at shadows.

Either way, I'd lynch Santos, but I'll hammer sekinj if the votes swing that way.

[Korts]

Eh. All in, it seems.

unvote, vote: sekinj

[Korts]

YAY. I called it.

[Korts]

You called all kinds of stuff, and I called it earlier than you [/gloat]. Still, good job to you too. Without you Phily wouldn't have made the slip that made Santos make the slip that made me realize.

[Korts]

hi5!