Mini 758 - Normalcy (GAME OVER)

[Kieraen]

Vote:Caboose

why not

[Kieraen]

Vote: Emptyger because seeing "Emp" in anyones name now makes me angry.

QFT

Unvote. Vote: Emptyger.

[Kieraen]

...Mostly because I was talking about the 1490s...

The 1940's weren't a barrel of laughs either.

[Kieraen]

I find the arguments at the minute as nothing more than storm in teacups. However, since we haven't got much else to work on I'm willing to work on this weak info. I'll post more thoroughly tonight.

[Kieraen]

Just read that Spyrex post and feel bad. Ive just kind of let this game glide by. I'm gonna post my feelings page by page. Full feelings and thoughts. Nothing barred. I've got some catching up to do.

Okay.
Apologies town. Ive been a bugger.

[Kieraen]

unvote

Page 1

Nothing to say except that three votes on both Spyrex and Emptiger quite quickly.

page 2

spyrex gets townpoints. KoC does not. Carry on.

The quote that started a debate.

Okay I don't know if this is a joke with the 1940s war thing or not. I don't see it as inherently scummy as such a throwaway comment would surely be justified by mafia seeking to avoid attention.

page 3

So far I like Spyre. Not a fan of the Lowell/KoC thing.

I find this comment equal to the Lowell comment. It is empty and devoid of reason.



I haven't seen why KoC has detractors. He hasn't said anything to go against as yet. Then again he hasn't said anything of substance yet.



With regards to the early numbers of random voting, I'm 50:50 torn. I have a problem with random votes in general, and if you vote late you are stuck between placing a vote on someone who has no votes or someone who has a few. I'm a fan of applying some pressure, and seeing what cracks. I think mafia are probably less likely to move their vote in this situation (

shoot myself in the foot as I have had a vote on Emptiger all game

), but this is all conjecture at this point.

There doesn't need to be one for it to qualify as a crap attack. All there needs to be is a vague, nebulous statement of "I think X is scum" or "I think X is scum for this reason that's not a scumtell."

QFT
I think both Lowell and Riceballtail qualify on this point. The point of Random voting is to expand of suspicions and then to have your own reasoning for suspicions to be challenged and qualified by others.

Any reason why you sarcastically dismiss the points as arbitrary and useless instead of, say, asking what the basis for them was? IGMEOY: KOC. I'll second Caboose's question, however - Lowell,, care to explain the reasoning behind your point distribution or whatever it was?

First off, I think KoC dismissing Lowell is not a scumtell in this case. If Lowell wanted to be taken seriously, then he would've explained his attack in the first place.
Plum looks scummy here because of two things: 1) she fans the flames of Lowell's "suspicion" of KoC by calling KoC down on a non scumtell, and 2) she asks Lowell for explanation, which plays both sides of the Lowell-KoC issue.
+scumpoints for Plum

I massively disagree with this. I think plum is playing the game correctly. You challenge everyone. He isn't playing both sides of the lowell KoC issue, he is CHALLENGING both sides of the Lowell-KoC issue.

Spyrex's post 64.
I agree with a great deal of points. However I feel like you forget a comment like Lowell's whilst not explicity stating that he feels KoC is anti town, it has great implications as such. We cannot forget this. However the real question is whether this is intentional and/or part of a joke (regarding the 1940s conversation).

I also dislike this statement.

Thats 5, right there without Caboose that have expressed in some fashion questioning/negative attributes to Lowells question. Add in Caboose and you're sitting at a potential L-1. (Yes, this is under the assumption that suspicions become votes - EmpTyger's already did).

Thats a big assumption. Your stating that we shouldn't be individualy suspicious of a of, what is one of the two most suspious posts up to this point (the other being Riceballtail's equally devoid post I quoted earlier). It feels like defending a scumbuddy at this point.



I like Plum's post 69.

Preemptive crap attacks are scummy.
+scumpoints for Lowell

I don't see what people are liking about Spyre.

I don't find this quote as bad as either Lowell's or Riceball. In this he is explicity stating (albeit minimally) what he dislikes about Lowell's case. The suggestion that Spyre is anti-town is much lower than in Riceball's or Lowell's. It is similair to both but I don't find it as scummy, and his initial sentance is something that I think bares a little trueth.

When you view another players action as "bad" (36) and there is glaring similarities to your own (59) there HAS to be an underlying reason for such a shift in thought process to occur.

As previously mentioned I don't see the similairity as strongly as you do, thefore the hyprocrisy factor is not as strong.

Okay more after my bath.

[Kieraen]

Sorry.

Run out of time tonight.

I will definitely post tomorrow.

In brief though.
I trust Plum and Altronoch to a degree.

I FOS RBT, Spyrex and Lowell. I am not to bothered about the Caboose argument, but i will reread and more thoroughly put down my ideas tomorrow.

---

As of this post, there are roughly 42 hours remaining before the deadline

The 'Page 6' votecount

Votecount

SpyreX (4) - Knight of Cydonia, Benmage, Caboose, Juls
Caboose (4) - SpyreX, Riceballtail, Lowell, Atronach

Lowell (2) - EmpTyger, Dejka

Riceballtail (1) - Plum

Not voting

: Kieraen
7 to lynch

[Kieraen]

Page 4

And, especially in light of Lowell’s failure to clarify, I feel that there are 2 reasonable interpretations of his original [36]: that Lowell is accusing KoC of being guilty, or Lowell is deliberately trying to be ambiguous. Both of which, in context, implicate Lowell. I don’t see how you reach the conclusion from the context of the thread that the best or only interpretation is that Lowell is making a null statement about KoC.

QFT

But I must say that the exact same goes for RBT.


I agree with Caboose's post 79. I'm starting to think Spyrex is defending a scumbuddy in Lowell.


Oh dear RBT, another contentless post (hipocritically followed up by my equaly nebulas post). Post 82 is a vote with no reasons, but with intent.

She has voted based on the arguement that she does not like Cabooses last post.
Thats all?? Qualify your behaviour lest I vote for you next. In my memory all I can remember her prematurely saying the random voting stage had ended, and the empty post about linking spyrex.


post 89, interesting. KoC unvotes Spyrex to vote....Spyrex. Pushing a lynch perhaps? Spyrex picks up on it immediatley. IGMEOY KoC.

unvote, vote caboose for the long-winded explanation about how his one-liners are better than my one-liners. String him up!

Thats his reply? Thats awful. Ignoring arguments is something I do a great deal when I'm scum. I don't like this at all. Its also an easy wagon jump vote with no clarification on current views or trends.


Post 99. Altronach has repeated some posts from Spyrex (understandly at this point in the game) and has given little crictisim towards Spyrex. I think Caboose makes a valid point here.

page 5

Vote: Riceballtail

FOS: Juls, Lowell, Atronach, SpyreX

Kieraen promised a post tonight. I sincerely hope he makes a good extensive one.

Okay I was a bit delayed, hiope this is the extensive post you wanted.
Quoting this because, if we replace Juls with KoC this matches my suspect list. I will probably vote the same way as well. Caboose is just marginaly in my townie side, with a little suspicion.

Lowell's 105 and 106 posts are vacuous...again! He also defends the player (spyrex) who is attacking his attack (Caboose). You know what they say, my ememys emenmy is my friend (and scumbuddy).

I will analysis Spyrexs huge post and page 6 later.


Notes and suspicions.
RBT has been minimal in thought and action. She has also made the same pre emptive attack as Caboose and Lowell. I don't know whether to vote for her yet, but I'm tempted.

Spyrex has been an absolute hyprocrit. He states early on that he dislikes lurkers and will push for modkills and lynches against such players. When two players make the same mistake (Caboose and Lowell) he then attacks the one who qualifies and answers more. This is strange is it not? He then reiterates his attack on Lurkers (including myself) but forgets his earlier promise. This for me is the biggest problem I have with Spyrex.

Plum. I have agreed with a great deal of what he has said. I seem to think in a similair manner (including the suspicion of RBT).

Juls, Emptiger, both seem solid town at the minute for me. I have disagreed with them on a few points but of no great issue. Doubt I will have much reaction with them on day one.

KoC. Hmm, He does make me suspicious but I can't quite put my finger on it. Partly it was the revote on Spyrex, but alo i think his picture is making me suspious for a not-a-good-reason.

Caboose. I think he was a hyprocrit in his attack and should acknowledge that he has made a similair comment to lowell. However I don't see a lot of scum in his comments. I have higher suspects.


No read on ben or Dejkha as yet.

[Kieraen]

Thats the second time you have been slightly dodgy with your votes. First was the double vote on Spyrex. And now after the hammer is dropped you unvote conventionently.

[Kieraen]

I've seen a lot of pro-town players ask to be lynched, but more often than not they come over as rushed, angry, and they don't give a wall of text to explain why they should be lynched. That's why I'm not going to unvote SpyreX. I would have found it more believable if he had just gone "OMG WTF U All Suck I'mma self vote so you lose fuckers".

Sorry my mistake. I read the unvote and misread. The point is mute anyway. You can't unvote now its twilight.

[Kieraen]

Okay thanks for repeating the quote Spyrex, I got it out of context. Fortunetly (or ratrher unfortunetly for you) it didn't have any effect on the lynch. However the large post you made last page regarding all the players did reiteratre your desire to kill me as a lurker if you were a vig.

There is some trueth in my comment, but not as much as before.

[Kieraen]

Oh its seven to lynch.... God Im getting everything wrong here arn't I. A whole heap of things wrong.

Okay. Well. I'll be posting tomorrow. When I know what the fuck my heads about.

---

The 'Page 6.5' votecount

Votecount

SpyreX (5) - Knight of Cydonia, Benmage, Caboose, Juls, Plum

Caboose (4) - SpyreX, Riceballtail, Lowell, Atronach

Lowell (2) - EmpTyger, Dejka

Not voting

: Kieraen
7 to lynch

[Kieraen]

RBT. Why do you so easily believe it. I'm gonna vote on you. I agree with plums arguments against you yesterday, but think you generaly slipped under the rader yesterday.
Points for you to argue against.
[quote:"RBT"]So far I like Spyre. Not a fan of the Lowell/KoC thing.
[/unquote]

Can you clarify your meaning behind this? It implies distrust towards KoC and Lowell. Can you make a full argument against them?

I also dislike that you are selective in your suspicion. You have ALL the reason to doubt CABOOSE's claim and KoC is absolutely correct to want to discredit it within reason.

Why do you believe Cabooses claim so easy?

And can you post longer than five lines?

[Kieraen]

RBT. Why do you so easily believe it. I'm gonna vote on you.

But you didn't.

I agree with plums arguments against you yesterday, but think you generally slipped under the radar yesterday.

Yeah, I'm pretty good at that. It's helpful to do such things as town, as they do not look to me for their suspicion.

Points for you to argue against.
[quote:"RBT"]So far I like Spyre. Not a fan of the Lowell/KoC thing.
[/unquote]

Can you clarify your meaning behind this?

It's pretty straight forward if you ask me.

It implies distrust towards KoC and Lowell. Can you make a full argument against them?

Not on page 3...

I also dislike that you are selective in your suspicion. You have ALL the reason to doubt CABOOSE's claim

and we have plenty of reasons to believe the claim too.

and KoC is absolutely correct to want to discredit it within reason.

And I can't find it suspicious that he wants to discredit it so quickly?

Why do you believe Cabooses claim so easy?

I see no reason not to.

And can you post longer than five lines?

Good luck on that.

That said,

VOTE:Lowell

almost entirely for 158. Voting someone you agree with is awfully scummy.

The only thing you are right about here is that I forgot to vote against you! There is no logic in your posting just arguments.

Slipping under the radar as a townie is poor town play. Who do mafia go after in the night...? Those who have no leads, like the quieter players perhaps?
How can we find mafia when you make no arguments? We can't.

So...

Vote RBT

[Kieraen]

Lowell I second that, I think before you criticise that play you need to explain your vacuous early posts.

[Kieraen]

Can you clarify your meaning behind this? It's pretty straight forward if you ask me. It implies distrust towards KoC and Lowell. Can you make a full argument against them? Not on page 3...

Can you explain the on page 7 then?....

[Kieraen]

It isn't Ben. I'm with you on that one...

KoC, you may inadvertently create your own self wagon with this sort of argument.

[Kieraen]

Interesting. Caboose is defended by Lowell because he has a similair powerrole.

Or in other words, One of our top suspects defends another of our top suspects.

I imagine either both are right or wrong.

I reckon Plum probably is town. So theres one positive.

We have an option, whereby we can protect Lowell (who tracks tonight) and lynch Caboose to see if he is who he says he is.

That would result in (probably):

Two mafia in Lowell and Caboose, with Plum as a possible third.

or 1 tracker (with results pending), 1 confirmed townie (in Plum) and 1 dead useless cop.


The second option of course is that Lowell is a mafia using this as an oppurtunity to look townie. hmm


I support a lynch of Caboose.

Unvote, Vote Caboose

[Kieraen]

I stand by it. At very least by lynching Caboose we establish plum's innocence and Cabooses innocence.

However one problem occured to me. The logical next move of the mafia would be to lynch plum (as confirmed townie he has no value to them). With no leads the NK becomes useless.


I say we lynch RBT instead. make life much simpler.

---

The "Check your votes; your mod is tired..." Votecount

Lowell (4) - EmpTyger, dejkha, Atronach, Benmage

Riceballtail (2) - Lowell, Plum
Benmage (2) - Knight of Cydonia, Caboose

Caboose (1) - Kieraen

Not Voting (1):

Riceballtail

6 to lynch

[Kieraen]

I think the risk of killing mafia Caboose is certainly worth the risk of killing townie Caboose.

Yeah mafia might lynch Plum, as a way of disclosing no new information for the town. But so what they will do this anyway.

I'm liking the sound of my gambit (and the sound of my own voice). I'm going to role with this one and

unvote, vote Caboose

Also if we have a doc, he can play 50 50 on protecting Lowell or Plum. Keep the mafia guessing. Hopefully mafia and doc pick same and both will be alive for us to continue our investigations tomorrow (assuming neither is mafia).

[Kieraen]

Weren't you already voting for Caboose, Kieraen? I don't think you get two votes.

No my vote has changed from Caboose to RBT and now back again.

Someone said I'm indecisive.... but I think...wait I dunno what I think about that!

[Kieraen]

@Emptiger. If we lynch Caboose we find out:

a) He's a one shot cop: Plum is townie, Lowell's claim has more significance.

b) He's mafia: Plum is more likely mafia, Lowell's claim looks like bullshit, thefore more likely mafia.

If a) is true lynching either Lowell or Plum is the most logical night kill for the mafia tonight. Plum because he is confirmed townie and thefore limits the number of lynchable suspects. Lowell because he is more likely to be speaking the trueth.
By having the doctor protect them one definitely lives with a possibility of neither dieing and a further possibility of a no night kill.

If b) is true, well then Plum is a more likely Mafia and Lowell also and we would needlessly be protecting mafia. However I think the reveals we get are worth the chance particularly if a) is true and we find 1, maybe 2, maybe 3 of our mafia in one move (unlikely but possible).

To be clear. the doctors role as proctecting either plum or lowell is more as a safeguard if we get it wrong in our lynch of Caboose. If he is townie, then we are more likely to get the benefits of having a confirmed townie and/or probably one shot tracker.

[Kieraen]

Caboose the best townie play would have been to make your claim as a 'cop' thus ensuring that the mafia would lynch you for your investigative abilities.

Claiming one shot cop means the mafia know you are now redundant and will focus on others who may also have one shot abilties an have not used it.

Whether mafia or town the play was poor.

[Kieraen]

Perhaps. But a one shot isn't something I've seen too frequently. It would be a nice coinceidence if mafia Caboose claims one shot cop, and townie Lowell claims one shot tracker to back him up.

[Kieraen]

Okay okay, I just wanted to run with the theory a while.

I hear what your saying you don't like the gambit, and I suppose come to think of it, I'm not so horny with the idea either.

I would probably say I believe that he is a one shot cop. Claiming so early makes sense. I also think Plum has been very townie so far, so his result makes sense.

However both these points are WIFOM. Mafia would do the exact same. Im suprised Caboose didn't investigate a more suspicious person (Lowell or RBT for example would be my first investigation).

With Lowell, I honestly have no idea if he is right or not. His play has been suspicios but probably blown up to much, as I see RBT as playing pretty similair so far.

[Kieraen]

My gambit was umpopular and with too many flaws.

The cases againts Lowell and RBT are the same except that theres a chance Lowells has more to say.

So.

Vote RBT

[Kieraen]

Time to claim I think.

Vanilla Townie.

With a deathwish.

Check my Meta, I'm not the best mafia player in the world...


Basically my thinking had a rather large assumption.

I assumed that Lowell and Caboose would have the same alignment given that they make the same claim. I think this is basically what everyones problem is with my argument.

I just thought I'd give it a shout out, but...

It's nice to see you try to sell theories without thinking them through.

must be QFT.

Not my best piece of play in the world... I'll admit.

I wanted to establish if we had one-shot powerroles in the game. By lynching one we either guaranteed the innocence of Plum, or established its scumminess.

When the play way examined it became clear it was full of holes (plum would be a likely lynch target if mafia, caboose's claim had little to do with Lowell's), however I always think aloud in games, and I don't truely think a mafia would be making such a play in this game do you?


Okay my attack on RBT is mainly for her lack of productivity in the game. It would be similair to how many people think of Lowell, but Lowell's powerclaim makes him a more interesting player to examine tomorrow following his tracking (assuming this is true).

How can I convince you I'm town? What aspect of my play can I explain further that will show that I am merely playing a (arguably) poorly thought out gambit.

[Kieraen]

This post, the one above. I specifically stated, in addition to what plum had said, that him calling something a gambit seems far to suspicious to let it slide. He also probably moved his vote to me in that post in order to make this look like it was an OMGUS, with the intent of trying to get me lynched instead.

I want you to be lynched because I have a stong suspicion you are scum.

[Kieraen]

sorry to disappoint, but despite reputation I am a male.

claim was perhaps early, yes, but the deadline is pretty soon. I was recently lynched because, even though I later found out I had convinced the town I was townie, the wagon had moved to far and moving it would have been poor townie play. So I claim now.

Lowell and RBT have a great deal more questions and posts to answer and write before I do.

+town points for Benmage for an actual honest assessment of my play. Not a bandwagon jumper I suspect.

+town points for Caboose. I have started to notice some townie play in your game.

-town points for RBT. On the previous page she dismissed Plums opening argument against me, then the following post agreed with it and voted for me. It stinks of either OMGUS townie play (which is not pro town) or scum looking for the easy kill.

@Emptiger what is your problem with Dejkha? I haven't seen anything particularly but would be interested. Its probably too late for a lynch against him but I'm interested in the arguments against him.

[Kieraen]

Okay If its to be me or RBT.

At least you will get a read on me tomorrow and the day after. I post what I think and post clear and long answers. I am town, but apart from that I am doing pro town things like theorising gambits (which the town hate) and proposing lynch targets and tghe like.

RBT has contributed nothing at all, her arguments are childesh 'you said I'm scum, well YOU'RE SCUM' arguments and she hasn't built a decent case or found any suspicious play AT ALL. She along with Lowell should be top lynch candidates for scumminess and general anti-townness.

Im fairly inclined to believe Plum and Caboose as townies, as ignoring their claims I feel they played townie on day one, particularly the former.

Dejkha, and Emptiger...Well I'm not sure. I think I'm going to do a reread. I am finding Emptiger increasingly suspicious but would like a reread before commenting further. He has arguments against Dejkha that I would also like to read, which will help to credit or discredit him as a townie.

---

The "I'm rubber, you're glue!" Votecount

Kieraen (4) - Plum, Riceballtail, dejkha, Knight of Cydonia
Riceballtail (4) - Lowell, Kieraen, Benmage, Caboose

Not Voting (2):

EmpTyger, Atronoch

6 to lynch

[Kieraen]

I think Dejkha is looking really scummy. Theres no excuse on day two turning around and saying 'I thought SPYREX was innocent' after saying nothing of the sort on day one.

KoC is tunnelling and not looking at possible innocence of his suspects. I don't trust him.

[Kieraen]

No because town isn't just looking for mafia. Its looking for SK's and townies as well.

If you see something that is townie in SPYREX's play, or a post that has been misrepresented, it may (or may not) influence the decision to vote for him.

I also didn't vote SPYREX, and had lost track of this game. On reading back SPYREX seems more townie, however I'm not using this to gain 'towniepoints'.

[Kieraen]

At least we know Caboose is probably who he says he is now.

vote emptiger

HOS KoC

Both had the chance to gurantee a lynch yesterday. I find emptiger slightly more suspicious for his complete lack of vote, than KoC who at least had voted.

[Kieraen]

Town, we have had two days and made one lynch. The lack of lynch yesterday was appalling. Players that are true vanilla townies must realise that if we get to l-1 it is well within good townie play to be lynched to secure a lynch.

There are a few stubborn personalities I am seeing who are helping us lose the town battles.

Current suspect list. KoC, RBT, Lowell, Dejkha and emptiger. My vote might dance around these guys today, I'm fairly sure at least two of them are scum.

[Kieraen]

5 at the minute. These are the players I at least want a reread through, and some consideration over.

Its can be good town play, as yesterday I was a suspect. If I was lynched and you say my affiliation (townie by the way but never mind), then thats one less in the pool of suspects.

Now neither myself or RBT was lynched, meaning we are still suspects. The mafia will keep us alive and wish that we stay alive so we have a higher amount of suspects in our pool of players.

Town has to try again to possiley lynch myself and/or RBT. Meanwhile thats three nights (1st night no lynch, 2nd night kieraens lynch, 3rd night RBT) in which three townies definitely die, as oppossed to the two nights it would typically take.

I don't have any sympathy for those who would use a no lynch as an excuse. Its pro townie-ness, is questionable, and rare. And it certainly wasn't the case yesterday.

It would have been good townie play for me to have been lynched yesterday. I will self vote (though I don't know the rules concerning this) if we have a similair situation today. However, had I self voted, I would not have been lynched yesterday. RBT was the one that should hav self voted.

[Kieraen]

Its pro townie-ness, is questionable, and rare. And it certainly wasn't the case yesterday.

Repeating this doesn't make it true. WHY?

I have a much better question. Why was it a good idea for a no lynch yesterday? You helped force that and so what reason do you have in its defence?

It would have been good townie play for me to have been lynched yesterday.

So... you are scum?

No you are taking me far out of context here (very scummy). I was never at L-1. The clearer option for a lynch was RBT, whom I still suspect. I could never self vote guaranteeing the lynch.

Town has to try again to possiley lynch myself and/or RBT.

Why so black and white?

Because yesterday near deadline, there was a choice between me and RBT as reaslitic lynch candidates. You did not guarantee the lynch near deadline by switching votes. You refused to, and so I think your a scum buddy with RBT.

Its can be good town play, as yesterday I was a suspect. If I was lynched and you say my affiliation (townie by the way but never mind), then thats one less in the pool of suspects.

You know what else it does? It makes it easier for scum to find any remaining power roles that haven't claimed. Although, going on yesterday's gamut, I doubt there ARE any who haven't claimed. Vanilla Townie's reason for existence is to run interference plays to make it harder for scum to find pro-town power roles, and to make it easier for those pro-town power roles to do their job.

So if there are probably no powerroles left, and all the powerroles are likely one hit wonders anyway, what is the point in being a suspect for many days and giving the mafia free hits?

5 at the minute. These are the players I at least want a reread through, and some consideration over.

So... you are admitting you have 5 suspects. 5 suspects on Day 2, I could understand. 5 suspects at this point... it's just typical scattergun scum tactics.

So you definitely know who the scum team is then? Well yes you do as far as I am concerned you just jumped to number one suspect through poor arguments. I would like to hear your definitive scumteam then...

Vote: Kieraen

If it was good town play for you to have been lynched yesterday... must still be good town play today. Certainly, nothing you've said is convincing me otherwise.

Its clear to me now that you and RBT are one team, hence your refusal to help the lynch on. I suspect that Emptiger was also on the team, but I'm not so sure.

Either of RBT or KoC would be a viable lynch for me today.

With Emptiger and Lowell as possibles (I want to look further at their posts as I'm not convinced yet.)

Unvote, VOTE KoC

[Kieraen]

what statements were odd? I find KoC's logic flawed as mentioned above. Reread and you'll see what I am thinking much clearer.

[Kieraen]

But surely its helpful? I mean I didn't do anything last night. I didn't expect a Lowell investigation on me.

I don't think your opening your mind to the possibilty KoC, that you are hideously wrong. Perhaps for once I have made a good call in fingering you as mafia.

[Kieraen]

Well I believe him now.... How about that for WIFOM...

[Kieraen]

I find it good logic emptiger.

If we have a suspect (or multiple suspects) day in day out, but worry about not lynching them then we are giving free kills to the mafia. If a townie is constantly a lynch target then he may as well get out the limelight and be lynched. At very least it gives the town one extra confirmed townie in which to anlysys his posts.

What if for instance me and RBT are both townies?

We are wasting valuable time and lynch oppurtunities trying to discover which if any of us, is mafia?

Better I was lynched yesterday you see I'm townie and can see who's pushing the lynch.

My favourite is for KoC and RBT to be on one scum team, as he seems to be defending her.

I can understand he wants to lynch me, but he is completely blinded to her scummy play (which I doubt that anyone can deny exists). Even if she isn't his first target he gave no other explanation for not voting her ecept "this isn't optimal at the moment".

I'm fairly certain that KoC and RBT are one scum team now.

[Kieraen]

Unless, of course, *you*’re guilty, right?

Kieraen [281] wrote:
<snip>
Players that are true vanilla townies must realise that if we get to l-1 it is well within good townie play to be lynched to secure a lynch.
<snip>

This is one of the most incorrect things I have ever read. A no-lynch is bad because it deprives the town of a chance of lynching mafia. That doesn’t make it automatically worse than every other option. Because, guess what. A townsperson self-lynching does even more to deprive the town of a chance of lynching mafia.

(Besides, according to your [incorrect] logic- then why didn’t you vote yourself? If someone’s guilty if they didn’t vote themself at lynch-1, then why not the person who didn’t vote themself at lynch-2?)

Because if I unvoted mysélf I

a) voted for the one person I knew in the game to be townie,

b) stopped voting for my biggest suspect

and

c) was going after someone with less votes.

RBT was already at L-1, I didn't expect a no lynch. I was L-2. I couldn't change the tide, and was offline during the no lynch. You and KoC on the other hand WERE online, and COULD do something about it.

major scummy points.

Why didn't you vote yesterday Emptiger?

[Kieraen]

I can believe a Lowell-Kieraen fake-clear... but unless they were really desperate, I'm finding it hard to explain why Lowell would step in unless Kieraen was a particularly vital scum role. Lowell doesn't exactly strike me as logical though, so... Iunno.

In this case the most logical case is that Lowell is who he says he is (one shot tracker) and
a) I'm none vital scum and didn't go anywhere last night

or

b)I'm vanilla


There is also c) Lowell is scum and following a townie, proving his credentials by following a real townie.

But I find d) unlikely

d) Lowell scum is defending Kieraen Scum.


Why do you automatically pick the least likely? @KoC
I think Lowell is far more likely to be townie now, and I am to a much lesser degree helped.

So why pick the one that seems the most far fetched?

[Kieraen]

I don't like your arguments your making.

I find Emptiger more indecisive at the minute, and see him asking questions of all the village.

You are tunnelling, and I get the sincere feeling that you are tunnelling on a townie, in the role of a scummer. I think you didn't vote RBT yesterday as she is your scum buddy.

[Kieraen]

At any rate this is a pointless argument when so many townies are being so quiet.

I wanna hear more opinions that just my own and KoC's.

If I am too be lynched so be it, but as it stands now so few players are actualy saying anything that it would seem any discussion of who is or is not guilty is beside the point.

[Kieraen]

But she did nothing pro town all game!

If you are a Mason with her then I understand. In fact that is the only logical explanation I can find that doesn't imply your scum buddies.

She was a suspect. Enough other players seemed to think so. Why is she so special to you that you wouldn't lynch.

Its pretty well established from the players I have played alongside that a No lynch is a pretty anti town weapon and doesn't help town at all.

Please show us evidence KoC why you believe RBT to be town.

[Kieraen]

I'm a bit thrown by your jack of all trades case. It fits, and I'm more than tempted to believe both yourself and Lowell.

I'm starting to get tempted by an Emptiger lynch. He's jumped on an attack of KoC just when he actualy has given us some info. He votes first rereads later... Strike while the irons hot? Keep pressure up?

Added to that he didn't vote yesterday he seems pretty quick to vote now.

For now I'm going to give KoC the benefit of the doubt. I'm not wholely satisfied with his claim, baring in mind that all the other roles have been one shots, and he has a 'two shot' (guaranteeing saftey tomorrow).

hmm... not sure whether I'm more suspicious of KoC (and thus RBT) or Emptiger. However, I really dislike Emptigers response, and it isn't the first problem I have had with him.

Unvote Vote Emptiger

[Kieraen]

So your catergorically saying you do not believe his role?

He is the most supicious to you and now your looking for buddies right?

Can I ask why you disregard his claim?

[Kieraen]

Why do you not believe the claim Emp? Why do you now definitly think that KoC is scum?

What makes you now see me as anti town?

I can believe a KoC claim to be false but if I do I don't see him buddying a townie, I would say that RBT would also be mafia as there was an easy lynch possibility yesterday on her.

KoC didn't say anything unreasonable. You voted without any explanation of reason, and have still refused any.

[Kieraen]

I'm not, I just want your reasons. I don't trust you anymore than KoC.

[Kieraen]

RBT and KoC... best friends? You seem to agree on just about everything.

[Kieraen]

I'm seeing the RBT, KoC alignment.

I'm not sure what I think of Emptiger, I find him scummy, but then I don't think he fits with an RBT and KoC scum team.

Dejkha has totally lurked. He doesn't normaly lurk so much in other games he has played.

I have townie feelinsg from Benmage and Altonach. I believe Cabooses claim.

I think KoC is probably still my strongest chance of lynching a mafiascum as well. Still not entirely comfortable with lynching Emptiger til I have a stronger read on him.

PS. KoC's JoaT's claim. He doesn't want to Vig because he CANT. It would be the only thing eh could do that would be conclusive proof that he waas who he said he was.

Unvote Vote KoC

[Kieraen]

So what's the difference between Lowell's atitude to RBT and your attitude to me KoC?

[Kieraen]

We could lynch you to prove it

[Kieraen]

Let’s assess something real quick

Caboose –Cop claim –says Plum is town(turns out right) (believe this)

I also believe this, and as its the first it makes implies that the others all have one shot as well. This may not be the case

RBT –Claims doc uses on Emp..still a sour feeling on this from me.

I agree. A Doc claim might fit with her posting style this game, but really I think her absolute lack of content contribution implies poor play or scumminess (or in my opinion both).

Atr –no claim

Kierean –Claims VT, eh

I stand by it

Lowell—claims tracker, tracks Kierean..hard to tell

Its true its true!

Dejkha –no claim

KoC—jack claim. Makes him and RBT aligned

Don't believe this.

Emp –no claim

Me –no claim

Well I’m not scum, so that would leave 3 ‘no claimers’ scum. I doubt that Atr Dej and Emp are the three scum people. Therefore I believe someones claim to be false.

Maybe we should all claim? Thoughts? ….I’m willing.

So that makes either a) a Lowell and Kieraen aligned team
b)Lowell tracked kieraen who didn't do anything last night
c) lowell following a townie who is likely to be lynched and 'prove' his innocence

and with the KoC RBT claim
a)True true
JoaT investigated one shot doc, doc wasted power (or claimed it) on Emptiger.

b) RBT is lying JoaT KoC got false claim

c)KoC is lying and RBT is town


Knowing my alignment obviously, then I am inclined to believe Lowell's one claim ability. I think theres probably going to be a few.

I could believe that KoC and RBT have the powers they claim if it were not for the general scummy play by both of them through the game, particularly RBT's lack of posting useless content, and also I don't believe her claim when she states she protected Emptiger already.

It could be a case that RBT is lying to protect herself and her abilities for another night. It would make sense to believe this, and I'm semi inclined to believe this, excepting that I don't think her play has been strong enough in this game to merit such an assumption.

KoC' claim felt more like an excuse than a reason. Particularly his claim of having 'one more ability to use' and 'refusing to kill someone' which would be our only genuine proof.

Alt and Benmage strike me as townie though I would prefer a read through. certainly I don't consider them strong bandwagons before tomorrow.

emp and Dejkha I'm not so sure about. I really want to reread them, however day ends tomorrow so I don't advocate a bandwagon against either, particularly as we have löittle to go on.


I see our current contenders as Lowell, KoC, Kieraen and RBT.

I would prefer a KoC or RBT lynch.

Tomorow is deadline, so I would advocate speed!

[Kieraen]

Its just struck me. Caboose claimed Plum was town, We seem to have forgotten about his claim. Werll mafia decided o kill plum making it clear Caboose was telling the truth.

Was he teling the trueth because he was cop or mafia?

His timing was strange as he claimed it at day break, rather than hold it back til Plum was at a point of near lynch. Why plum anyway? He seemed townie to me. Probably the most townie at that point.

Wanna review that as well.

[Kieraen]

yep I'd self hammer if thats what the town wants.
At the end of the day by being lynched I will be able to prove my towniness, and perhaps cast a light on a few other players as well. But I don't know the maths behind that action. Could we lose tomorrow if I do this?

Is it in the rules? I'm still (relatively) new at this. Is it considered bad form to do so, or is that onbly in Newbie games?

[Kieraen]

Okay thats clear then. Heres a nice bit of WIFOM then. I'm not gonna hammer.

Before you argue the toss on that point, yesterday when I advocated was a different day, and woulnd't have put us in Lylo. It was earlier and at a point where more info was the priority (as well as catching scum).

There is no contradiction here.

[Kieraen]

That leaves Lowell and Caboose.

I have 4 votes and KoC has three.

It would be good if we actualy lynched someone today, if not for anything just so we can see some voting patterns and eliminate some groups.

I think we should look at the hammerer tomorrow, and anyone who changes votes at this point. Not saying they are neccessarily scummy, but I think it could be a big revelation towards their affiliation.

[Kieraen]

1)

Alright, someone wake up and hammer him now, since he won't. Call his WIFOM.

Kieraen, if you are town, for the love of God, don't self-hammer, or we'll be relying on my questionable ability to outguess scum to stop us from going into LyLo tomorrow.

Reason I as to why I am not self voting.

You are setting me in a trap. You want me to self vote like I claimed I would have yesterday (when the situation was different) but tell me to not self vote if I am town.

You then keep reminding people I am not self voting.


2)You also kindly

Kieraen as scum:
6 town/2 scum @ end of day.
5 town/2 scum @ start of next day, unless I block the nightkill.

Kieraen as town:
5 town/3 scum @ end of day
4 town/3 scum @ start of next day, unless I block nightkill.

remind us of your night powers. Your not exactly keeping it secret, especialy as our doc (whom you have claimed to have already investigated) has claimed to have used her powers already.

3) Finally, the question remains of seeing some alignments and groups, which will be serviced by someone hammering me (or possibly you). We have a far better chance of finding the scummy groups when we can see who has voted me.


Onto RBT
1) It has been implied by emptiger that RBT's play was that of a doc and he saw this already. She also claims doc. She has stayed out the limelight and has not made any particular cases against players, just votes and a few lines of fill.
a) if she has used her one shot ability, as she has claimed against Emp, why does she continue to refuse to contribute meaningful discussion?
b) she still hasn't used her ability and is staying out the limelight. However this policy is clearly not working, as other players beside myself have called her on her lack of contribution.
c) she is lurker mafia scum.

2)I am definitely able to see an EMP-RBT scum team, and also an RBT-KoC scum team. However all three is questionable due to EMP's current vote on KoC.
a)EMP-RBT both pushing the doc claim made by her. RBT protecting EMP (or claiming it).
b)RBT being 'checked' by JoaT KoC.


Caboose
1) been seriously silent. Lurker or flarker?
2) initiated the whole 'one shot claim'. Wondering if other power roles are using 'one shot' as protection from mafia?
3) claimed Plum was town which was blindingly obvious, and so conveniently proved by the mafia the following day (bit strange as we could have kept guessing for a day or two if plum was still alive).

Those are my top three suspects.

[Kieraen]

I like KoC's game to be honest. I just think he's scum and he's playing with a few flaws.

What happened to Emp, and Dejkha?


If Caboose is killed and he is not a one shot cop. Then I would begin to doubt pretty much all the one shot claimers. I would imgine they either fall into:
a) scum
b) powerroles hiding under the guise of one shotters.

[Kieraen]

I'm not. I would willingly lynch RBT. The link between herself and both EMP and KoC makes her a far more interesting target than either myself (linked with Lowell) or Koc (only linked with RBT, with perhaps one more ability in the morning).

A reminder. She is linked to RBT as he investigated her 'innocent' and is linked to EMP as he 'saw her as doc since the beginning' and she has 'protected him last night'.

The only danger I feel is that she really is a one shot doc who has falsely claimed to have used her ability already in order to use it soon. I find this unlikely however.

@EMP
I hadnt considered that the arguments being used by myself against Caboose could be made in the exact same way about Lowell on me last night.

The major difference, for me, is that Plum was very townie, wheras I was a suspect last night. It made alot of sense to investigate a suspect, but Plum was never a serious suspect.

I don't trust KoC, but I think I would prefer an RBT lynch. I do have a little doubt, his JoaT claim may yet be true, but I am in no way convinced.

Would anyone be up for an RBT lynch? As one of perhaps the three leading suspects (myself RBT and KoC) I find her the one with the greatest potential for information, as being a likely mafia and being an essentialy redudant member of the village.

[Kieraen]

:edit:

"Bah!"

Thanks for the heads up, but this should have been a non-issue.

[Kieraen]

Really enjoyed that game. Confusing play from Lowell though as he lynched me after having tracked me the previous night.

I enjoyed arguing against KoC. (play you again dude, hopefully against you.)

Totaly didn't see Altonoch as scum, Emp...blah...

Oh well....

Nice game all.

[Kieraen]

...apprently not.

I think your play lost town the game.

Have you read the mafia talk page?

Why did you lynch someone who you had tracked?

[Kieraen]

yeah scumteam was good. Liked plums,spyrex and juls play also.

Cheers mod, great game