Open 121: Two of Four (b9) - Over! before 752

[hewitt]

Okay so DO NOT LYNCH zwetschenwasser for whatever silly reasons you guys who put him at L-1 felt, that was pretty stupid in my opinion. Zwets has been 100% consistent in this game with his gameplay from my past experiences with him so while I agree he's not really helpful this is just how he is so chill out.

Other then that there's not really much to go off so far but I'm pissed that we put our claimed cop at a position where he's vulnerable to scum attacks. If zwets truly is the cop then that's REALLY bad. It makes sense that zwets panicked and claimed because if you're the cop and you're about to be lynched D-1 of course you would claim to save yourself to help the town.

[hewitt]

From post 83-post 96 zwets was at L-1. That totally seems unnecessary and yeah zwets claimed in post 99 (three posts after being taken out of L-1) but since Empking didn't say Unvote: zwets it's easy to see why he would've still thought he was at L-1.

[hewitt]

Okay so DO NOT LYNCH zwetschenwasser for whatever silly reasons you guys who put him at L-1 felt, that was pretty stupid in my opinion. Zwets has been 100% consistent in this game with his gameplay from my past experiences with him so while I agree he's not really helpful this is just how he is so chill out.

Other then that there's not really much to go off so far but I'm pissed that we put our claimed cop at a position where he's vulnerable to scum attacks.

I went after him at first based on past experiences, and told him I wouldn't unvote him until he changed. He still hasn't changed, so my vote remains.

So basically you're not voting on who you think is scummy but on some silly personal vendetta thing.

[hewitt]

Nope, not at all. What he's doing is ridiculously helpful if he's Scum, and completely useless if he's Town.

KMD, I agree. This isn't Open, though, we don't know that we have a Cop.

You and the three other people who put zwets at L-1 have also been ridiculously helpful if you're scum as well.

[hewitt]

Nope, not at all. What he's doing is ridiculously helpful if he's Scum, and completely useless if he's Town.

KMD, I agree. This isn't Open, though, we don't know that we have a Cop.

You and the three other people who put zwets at L-1 have also been ridiculously helpful if you're scum as well.

That's not going to fly. Are you saying that because he's decided to CLAIM Cop it means it was retroactively a bad idea to wagon him for not playing?

SensFan...you have done absolutely nothing but repeat the same b.s. so far. You aren't playing either, or contributing anything of substance to this game in any way, shape, or form at all.

[hewitt]

Nope, not at all. What he's doing is ridiculously helpful if he's Scum, and completely useless if he's Town.

KMD, I agree. This isn't Open, though, we don't know that we have a Cop.

You and the three other people who put zwets at L-1 have also been ridiculously helpful if you're scum as well.

That's not going to fly. Are you saying that because he's decided to CLAIM Cop it means it was retroactively a bad idea to wagon him for not playing?

SensFan...you have done absolutely nothing but repeat the same b.s. so far. You aren't playing either, or contributing anything of substance to this game in any way, shape, or form at all.

Why is it BS? I am actively going after someone who has been promoting the usage of so-called 'randomness' in lieu of going after people.

It may help if you know that I consider anyone doing ANYTHING randomly (yes, that includes random voting) to be the biggest scumtell there is.

It's b.s. because you're basically going after someone due to a clash of playstyle instead of scumhunting on solid grounds.

[hewitt]

You started your attack on zwets with your first post. If you really go after those who aren't being as serious as you apparently see fit in determining you could have easily started your attack with Darkcoffeejazz, ZazieR, Kmd, or BlondeSoWut. You came into this game with a target already in mind and that to me feels like you decided that Night 0.

[hewitt]

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!!!

And you were right.

[hewitt]

KMD, I agree. This isn't Open, though, we don't know that we have a Cop.

Um.

Yes it is...?

Not where I'm from. Where I'm from, we have 48 hour days, 24 hour nights, and if you don't vote at all, or vote the wrong person, yer scummy.
So I always vote. Even if it's a random vote Day 1. After all, if you don't lynch anyone, you learn nothing.
If Zwet is truly town, and is what he claims, I think we have a new target.

First off being wrong is NOT a scumtell.

Second, we need a new target REGARDLESS of if we believe Zwet or not. If he's fakeclaiming, we'll know later.

I partially agree with you saying being wrong is not a scumtell. Obviously people are going to make mistakes and not just scum made up a bandwagon on a lynched townie but if a townie is ever lynched I believe that all players who voted for that townie should go under intense scrutiny.

[hewitt]

Okay well let me just clarify how I feel on this issue. If a player is put at L-1 and the players who are on that bandwagon ask for no one to hammer...but someone does I will put more responsibility not on the one who hammered, but the players who were stupid enough to put that player at L-1 to begin with. Because one vote at L-1 does not make a lynch it is all the votes before that as well.

[hewitt]

If an innocent is lynched, I'm way more wary of the people that defended them tooth and nail than those that attacked tooth and nail.

About what percentage of your games with a Day 1 mislynch have you seen 0 scum on the wagon?

Okay well let me just clarify how I feel on this issue. If a player is put at L-1 and the players who are on that bandwagon ask for no one to hammer...but someone does I will put more responsibility not on the one who hammered, but the players who were stupid enough to put that player at L-1 to begin with. Because one vote at L-1 does not make a lynch it is all the votes before that as well.

Regardless of whether or not it was a good lynch, a mislynch is likely to have scum on it.

Well yeah I mean that's pretty much exactly my point.

[hewitt]

Empking I don't understand exactly what you were thinking in this game voting zwets so early on. To me you're hopping on the first bandwagon you can think of. You know zwets acts like this, you know this is how he plays, we have both played in the same game with him before where his behaviour was extensively analyzed, criticized, etc. This game is no different so why did you support a zwets lynch? Not to mention the fact that you have been following SensFan like a golden retriever.

[hewitt]

During the stages where zwets was getting the most heat you were rallying off what SensFan was saying and you asked him for his take on zwets so that you could distinguish what his thoughts on zwets are vs. your thoughts and then after he gave it to you, you never really completed the second part of that by actually distinguishing his thoughts from your own and all you did was reply with a thank you. That was pretty useless considering you had explained why you wanted his thoughts for one reason and then totally didn't follow it. So far you've never really done anything either of great substance yet you manage to play it off as if you had by asking questions and never really letting the rest of the town know your exact logical reasoning behind your actions.

I can't really find any possible links between you and town at this point. Good thing it's early.

[hewitt]

Where the hell is BlondeSoWut?

[hewitt]

Its been like 5 days since her last post on the site.

Are you going to answer my last post about you at all?

[hewitt]

He's empking. People get mad at him for not being helpful more than they do with me posting one-liners.

Truthfully I don't really find either of you helpful though so I don't really need your help assessing Empking thanks much.

[hewitt]

Anyways. Empking...still waiting...

[hewitt]

So what the hell's with the L-1 on Darkcoffeejazz?

[hewitt]

He needs to explain himself.

Yeah okay whatever that's cool and all but that's a pretty stupid reason to have him at L-1 right now because there's so many wild cards on this site and morons who will stupidly drop a hammer and what if BlondeSoWut who has been nowhere on this game suddenly comes in and drops the hammer. I do not think anybody who's keeping Darkcoffeejazz at L-1 right now is being pro-town in any way whatsoever for God's sake somebody get their vote off him before somebody does something stupid I have been in way too many games where a fellow townie has been mislynched because of that and I am not starting this game off this way.

[hewitt]

...you have no idea how tempted I am to hammer right now...

Wow, that's so smart.

[hewitt]

That was so fucking stupid.

[hewitt]

It's b.s. because you're basically going after someone due to a clash of playstyle instead of scumhunting on solid grounds.

Hey hewitt, this is my playstyle. By your own logic, get used to it.

Uh, no you're totally wrong and way to totally try to misuse my phrase. I believe I said (and the evidence is right above me) it's stupid to go AFTER someone due to a clash of playstyle...I haven't gone after you because of your playstyle. Read better.

[hewitt]

Militiant, you questioned DCJ a little, but never voted him. Why?

Hewitt, the first mention of DCJ I see from you is "So what the hell's with the L-1 on Darkcoffeejazz?" You also said " I do not think anybody who's keeping Darkcoffeejazz at L-1 right now is being pro-town in any way whatsoever". Did you think he was town?

BSW, you were the other player not to vote DCJ. But you did nothing AT ALL. What are your thoughts on the game?

I'm not ruling out DCJ being bussed, but I think the best start is these 3 players.

I wasn't sure if he was town or not, I don't think it's a good idea to bus players before getting any form or information out of them whatsoever especially this early in the game so I'm glad he flipped scum but I'm pissed that it had to happen so quickly. I don't like lynching players so quickly when we've got a huge deadline is a good idea so yeah I was pissed when he was at L-1 so early over what I thought was no so great evidence.

[hewitt]

I don't like lynching players so quickly when we've got a huge deadline is a good idea

You think the fact we have a deadline X days away means we need to wait (X-1) days to lynch someone?

No I like to find out more information from the player I want to lynch before actually lynching them.

[hewitt]

I don't like lynching players so quickly when we've got a huge deadline is a good idea

You think the fact we have a deadline X days away means we need to wait (X-1) days to lynch someone?

No I like to find out more information from the player I want to lynch before actually lynching them.

What information did you want from him, a claim?

I have news for you, if you're willing to stop a lynch based on a claim of Power, we're going to lose. The only people that WON'T claim Power are the Townies.

Don't put words in my mouth. You have a funny tendency to do that. No I do not stop lynches for claims I like to keep them around long enough to try and draw connections between them and their scum buddies.

[hewitt]

I don't like lynching players so quickly when we've got a huge deadline is a good idea

You think the fact we have a deadline X days away means we need to wait (X-1) days to lynch someone?

No I like to find out more information from the player I want to lynch before actually lynching them.

What information did you want from him, a claim?

I have news for you, if you're willing to stop a lynch based on a claim of Power, we're going to lose. The only people that WON'T claim Power are the Townies.

Don't put words in my mouth. You have a funny tendency to do that. No I do not stop lynches for claims I like to keep them around long enough to try and draw connections between them and their scum buddies.

I never put any words in your mouth, I asked what information you wanted. You seem REALLY jumpy, and way overly paranoid.

Combined with the fact it looks like you knew zwet was going to flip Town, and that you were ridiculously upset/worried when I hammered DCJ, I think I'm happy with a

(Unvote) Vote: hewitt

How am I being jumpy? I calmly and clearly stated what I had to say and in way at all was I being paranoid I just get pissed when people put words in my mouth. And yeah you did by first saying that I want to wait an x number of days before lynching someone and then you went on to insinuate that I wanted to stop the lynch for a claim of power which I've never done. And I never said that I knew zwets was going to flip town I'm just fairly confident that he's town.

[hewitt]

I actually disagree with the case against hewitt. I don't see why scum would post upset after their partner is lynched. And I've been also a few times sure that someone was town, while everyone else saw that player as scum (see NG 684).

Then I want hewitt to explain how the FUCK he saw zwet as Town.

I'm actually more interested in Sens as that hammer is questionable, and BSW as her disappearance was rather 'convenient'.
So I'm waiting to hear from Sens if he actually thought that DCJ was scummy with reasons, and to hear some content from BSW.

Of course I thought he was scummy. I don't hammer people that early if I don't think they're scummy.

What do you mean how I saw zwets as town? I think he's town because he's being absolutely, perfectly consistent with his playstyle. And look at that, he was town. So obviously I knew what I was talking about.

[hewitt]

*thought. I fucked up my tenses there lol.

[hewitt]

I actually disagree with the case against hewitt. I don't see why scum would post upset after their partner is lynched. And I've been also a few times sure that someone was town, while everyone else saw that player as scum (see NG 684).

Then I want hewitt to explain how the FUCK he saw zwet as Town.

I'm actually more interested in Sens as that hammer is questionable, and BSW as her disappearance was rather 'convenient'.
So I'm waiting to hear from Sens if he actually thought that DCJ was scummy with reasons, and to hear some content from BSW.

Of course I thought he was scummy. I don't hammer people that early if I don't think they're scummy.

What do you mean how I saw zwets as town? I think he's town because he's being absolutely, perfectly consistent with his playstyle. And look at that, he was town. So obviously I knew what I was talking about.

Show me a game he played as Scum where he played differently.

Show me a game where he did.

[hewitt]

I actually disagree with the case against hewitt. I don't see why scum would post upset after their partner is lynched. And I've been also a few times sure that someone was town, while everyone else saw that player as scum (see NG 684).

Then I want hewitt to explain how the FUCK he saw zwet as Town.

I'm actually more interested in Sens as that hammer is questionable, and BSW as her disappearance was rather 'convenient'.
So I'm waiting to hear from Sens if he actually thought that DCJ was scummy with reasons, and to hear some content from BSW.

Of course I thought he was scummy. I don't hammer people that early if I don't think they're scummy.

What do you mean how I saw zwets as town? I think he's town because he's being absolutely, perfectly consistent with his playstyle. And look at that, he was town. So obviously I knew what I was talking about.

Show me a game he played as Scum where he played differently.

Show me a game where he did.

You're claiming you were willing to defend the most obviously scummy play I have seen in a long time because of his meta. I expect you to show me at least one example of him playing differently when he is Scum. And no, examples of him playing like this as Town don't count.

In regards to the most obviously scummy play, he claimed cop when he thought he was at L-1. It was stupid but I don't think it was scummy. He freaked out because he's town and didn't want to be lynched and that was completely unhelpful to the rest of the town but if we hadn't put him in that position in the first place it wouldn't have happened.

[hewitt]

No no no, his scummy play started way before he claimed. I want to know exactly made you see him as being Town, if not for the fact you knew he wasn't your buddy.

You claimed it was because of his meta. So show me games where he indicated he suddenly is half-decent when he's Scum.

No I'm not going to, I don't do that. And I never said that I was 100% fully convinced that zwets was town. I said that I thought he was town. Based on previous games I've played with him I found similarities between his playstyle this game as with others so I thought he was town and I was right.

[hewitt]

I'm actually starting to find this pretty obvious who's scum now. Sensfan. Where is all this coming from? Go back and re-read this game. I never once said "oh, oh don't lynch zwets he's a townie for sure". What's with trying to start a bandwagon on me with shitty grounds? Thought I'd be an easy D2 lynch so that's why you didn't kill me during night eh?

Vote: SensFan

[hewitt]

Uh, I'm not voting for you because I think you suck, I'm voting for you because I think you're scum. You always manage to take what I'm doing and twist it around in a negative way, and that's fucking scummy. I don't think you get it. You can't give anyone a free pass and everyone is equally as likely to be scum. You came into this game with zwets as a target in mind and that to me is scummier then anything zwets did.

And I don't know who the hell Nat is so I don't care.

[hewitt]

Oh I thought SensFan made both of those last two posts, when I'm saying you in my above post keep in mind I'm referring to SensFan not Kmd.

[hewitt]

Uh, I'm not voting for you because I think you suck, I'm voting for you because I think you're scum. You always manage to take what I'm doing and twist it around in a negative way, and that's fucking scummy. I don't think you get it. You can't give anyone a free pass and everyone is equally as likely to be scum. You came into this game with zwets as a target in mind and that to me is scummier then anything zwets did.

And I don't know who the hell Nat is so I don't care.

That's a blatant misrep. I came into this game with the prospect of teaching zwet to play. He showed to be completely useless, and incapable of doing anything useful. So he was wagoned.

Ever heard of a policy-lynch? Because we didn't get NEARLY that far with zwet...

Go read your posts from when zwets was lynched you were being absolutely no help either. Coming in with bias on certain players when the game is random and every player has an equal chance of being scum is not fair to the rest of the town. Then forming a bandwagon on them for crappy reasons is unacceptable and totally scummy, it is not a town thing to do.

[hewitt]

That does nooooooooot at all mean people should do it just because others do it. Basically you're saying because other people do it you should do it too and that makes it acceptable. And zwets may have been spewing random bullshit but you were just spewing regular bullshit.

[hewitt]

Hold up for a minute, so you planned on wagoning him to a claim? Because that's what you just said and that's exactly what zwets did. So you had it already planned out.

[hewitt]

Okay does anybody else (speaking to everybody but SensFan and Kmd) find this absolutely ridiculous?

So you, SensFan, came into this game with a gameplan to basically screw zwets over and it succeeded. I don't believe for one second that it was to improve his play you can't affect how someone else plays the game and you knew zwets wasn't going to change for you. It was an easy D-1 gameplan for you and your buddy and during night you planned to start a bandwagon on me and now that's what's your attempting to do.

[hewitt]

Well hey if he's attacking me I'm going to defend myself so it's not that I can't get used to his gameplay trust me if I can get used to zwets and Empking I can get used to SensFan.

[hewitt]

Okay well Nat's not in this game so I don't see how he's relevant.

[hewitt]

Directly quote where I told you it was scummy to pressure someone based on policy.

[hewitt]

The key word that you seem to forgetting here is bias. If we had zwets and Empking in the same game you can lynch them both based on "policy lynching". But if their both town, that's just plain stupid, hence, I think your actions were stupid and scummy.

[hewitt]

To answer your question SensFan it would be option that putting zwets at L-1 is scummy but here's the thing...Nat isn't relevant because Nat isn't zwets. They are completely different players. You can't possibly say two people play this game the same and the unpredicatability on everybody's part is high.

[hewitt]

To answer your question SensFan it would be option that putting zwets at L-1 is scummy but here's the thing...Nat isn't relevant because Nat isn't zwets. They are completely different players. You can't possibly say two people play this game the same and the unpredicatability on everybody's part is high.

Its perfectly relevant, and there's no fucking way you even believe the shit you are saying at this point.

It's not relevant at all, zwets is a completely different player than Nat, that much is quite clear right from the get-go. And did that really change Nat's behavior? Didn't really seem like it.

[hewitt]

The point on Nat is that he has an anti-town meta like Zwet does. It's perfectly reasonable to compare the two.

Did it end with the same result though?

[hewitt]

But are Nat, zwets, and Empking the same players. Do the have the same tendencies, the exact same flaws, and the same level of predictability? The answer is a resounding no and I think it's stupid to compare players because they all have been attacked for their gameplay. Their gameplays are different and it is silly to expect that zwets will act like any other player whether it's Nat or Empking or me or you. It doesn't matter, because none of us play the same and the stunt that was pulled was a catastrophe and that is a fact. We killed our cop, plain and simple as that.

[hewitt]

the stunt that was pulled was a catastrophe and that is a fact. We killed our cop, plain and simple as that.

I don't regret doing a damn thing.

That was obvious enough.

[hewitt]

PBPA on DCJ:

Post 0: Makes an 'I'm Town' reference (scummy)
Post 1: Doesn't random vote (very scummy)
Post 2: random votes BSW for 'trolling', when zwet has been trolling, and BSW hasn't done anything (slightly scummy)
Post 3: Comments on '3 people with 2 votes' (null)
Post 4: Misunderstands Zaz's question (null)
Post 5: Still misunderstands the question (null)
Post 6a: Claims that people on MS are too serious (summy)
Post 6b: Implies no one is vote-worthy, when he has a vote on BSW (very scummy)
Post 7: Votes zwet because "we have to lynch someone" (ridiculously scummy)
Post 8a: Says he wants to lynch zwet, then if he flips Town, go after people who wagoned zwet (ridiculously scummy)
Post 8b: Calls the back-and-forth between (presumably?) zwet and I "childish arguing," claims he's voting to avoid being "stuck on Day 1 forever." (slightly scummy)
Post 8c: Calls his vote on zwet fucking RANDOM (ridiculously scummy)
Post 9: Argues that he's not going to adapt his way of playing, even know he knows MS is different from 'where he's from'. (slightly scummy)

The kicker for me was definatively 8c.

I don't think Posts 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 9 are scummy.

[hewitt]

I did notice you said that they are null and I agreed obviously. Again, I noticed that you said they were slightly scummy and I obviously disagreed. I don't find that post to be scummy. And I don't care if you consider not random voting or whatever you mean (because that last point you stated totally does not make sense, not nor random voting?) because not random voting isn't scummy so that was a ridiculous reason to vote for someone.

[hewitt]

And I don't care if you consider not random voting or whatever you mean (because that last point you stated totally does not make sense, not nor random voting?) because not random voting isn't scummy so that was a ridiculous reason to vote for someone.

So the fact you and I disagree on what is scummy is reason for you to call my post 'ridiculous'?

For fuck's sake, I've talked in MD about how and why random voting, or not voting at the beginning of the game, is very scummy to me.

Note: Random voting is not to be confused with 'random' voting; the latter is perfectly fine.

Okay well what is your definition of random v. 'random'. And I don't see you talking in this game about why not random voting is scummy. So why is it? And Empking do not answer for him I know your opinion of why and it sucks so I'm not asking you I'm asking SensFan.

[hewitt]

Oh wait, I'm going to pull a Empking.

Active lurking, who does that last post contribute to scum hunting Empking?

[hewitt]

Asking a question.

Is the sky blue?

I just asked a question, so am I being helpful too?

[hewitt]

I asked if the sky was blue Empking, why didn't you answer?

[hewitt]

No. I'm asking you a real question.

[hewitt]

I apologize to the rest of the town because I know my answers and questions and such are frustrating and pretty useless. But that's about the same level I put Empking's answers and questions on.

[hewitt]

Okay well I thought you meant random being truly random which it is and 'random' meaning they say it's random but it's really not and they have a personal reason for doing it or something which is apparently not what you mean. How do you know somebody is deciding by a di roll though or if they truly mean that they're voting somebody for having a dumb avatar? You don't. I can see why you think it's scummy, I on the other hand find it silly and frivolous.

[hewitt]

Vote: [Player 6]

Or else will say "Random.org told me to

Vote: [Player]

.

It's scummy because Town know their own alignment. Scum have to make a conscious decision whether or not to vote their buddies, which can easily come back to haunt them.

Okay well I've never anything like that so that might've added to my confusion a little with your explanation. And again the nat v. zwets thing it happened in two completely different games and the fact is, once again, we killed our cop when we lynched zwets. I'm a dramatic person what can I say.

[hewitt]

Wow SensFan that was completely unneccessary. I don't think the bandwagon on him was sound whatsoever, that's all I've been saying and that's my standpoint on that issue obviously. You freaking out on me isn't going to change that.

[hewitt]

Sens is just saying that we can't double guess ourselves. If DCJ had flipped town I'm sure you'd be all over the rest of the players about that one too, but he played scummy (in some ppl's opinion), and flipped scum. zwet, played scummy (in some ppl's opinion) and flipped town. okay. let's move on.

Okaaay well do you think he was playing scummy?

[hewitt]

At this point I've decided it's over with and my opinion is known so that's pretty much all I care about. I don't think you're a very smart player and you were playing with a personal vendetta against zwets. I don't think that was a clever move and it ended with a bad result, again, obviously.

[hewitt]

True but I asked for your personal opinion. And doesn't have to be just townies who voted for him.

[hewitt]

Mmmhmmm so that's why you said you were going to vote against zwets until he changed his playstyle for you?

[hewitt]

Unvote

Vote: Hewitt

Hewitt's last posts have been unbeleivably scummy.

Sekinj: If they're just here to follow grudges or mess around (Hohum and Hewitt) then maybe. If they're trying to scum hunt then hell no.

How have I been following grudges?

[hewitt]

Pretty sure you're in the second category.

Oh, and for an ironic note, if you flip Town, you will join zwet on my list of players.

Am I supposed to care?

[hewitt]

So then where did I go wrong D1 in your opinion SensFan since I'm assuming I'm in that first list of yours.

[hewitt]

Well since I'm at L-1 I'm going to throw in that if I do get lynched I would have to urge the rest of the town to get rid of SensFan who would've have now gone after two town players.

[hewitt]

I think it's very obvious that I'm not an anti-town player, I'm pro-town and that hammering would just add another loss for the town.

[hewitt]

First of all my my play did not change once you hammered SCUM and that is was revealed I was upset after you hammered. I showed I was upset before it was revealed not after. And on top of that you didn't hammer because of the reasons you stated later you hammered out of spite of me.

I've stopped talking about the zwets wagon so I obviously picked option c and the reason why is because the fact is zwets claimed cop and then scum nightkilled him because he turned out to be the cop. But that wouldn't have happened if he didn't think he was at L-1 and claimed. So take responsibility for the fact that your actions caused zwets to claim and then in turn scum killed him.

And it's not appeal to emotion it's the truth and I haven't been telling anything but it all game, if you want me to claim then fine I'm vanilla.

[hewitt]

Yes you're right in that I did know he was scum but I urged not to hammer yet because I wanted to get more information out of him in hopes that it would lead to connections with his buddies and now D2 we obviously have no idea who that would be. And I didn't say you wagonned two pro-town people I said you wagonned two townies. The problem I had with you wagonning zwets was that it was so fucking early in the game that it was unnecessary.

And I would just love to point out how you made a correlation between me becoming anti-town once I started becoming anti-SensFan.

[hewitt]

Possible bad word choice but I was answering your question so I didn't think to change it.

[hewitt]

Ooooh actually I didn't understand why that word KNEW was bolded until now. It's saying that I knew he was scum because you're saying I'm scum as well, gotcha. I thought you were saying that I agreed with you that thinking Darkcoffeejazz was scum when he got lynched which would be true.

Clever.

[hewitt]

@hewitt - I see nothing in your meta that shows you are against policy lynches. so, why this big fight with sens regarding his voting of zwet?

i am very ready to hammer

Because I really don't think zwets deserved it, based on my past experiences with him I don't think he's the strongest player but I don't think he's exactly useless and especially right out of the gate.

[hewitt]

Okay before anybody hammers (because if someone does this could potentially be useful for later) who's honestly voting for me because they think I'm scum and exactly why.

I am a vanilla townie so if I do get hammered it's going to be the work of scum so for the town's sake answer the question.

[hewitt]

Okay well before you hammer I'd really like to hear from the others who have their vote on me.

[hewitt]

And could you explain what the contradiction is?

[hewitt]

the contradiction is your stance on policy lynches. you seem fine with it in meta, but fought it (or somethign very similar) tooth and nail in this game.

I'm not dead-set on certain things I don't think you can play this game and say I'm going to policy lynch this person every game or I'm always against policy lynches. You have to play situationally and I don't think the policy lynch on zwets was founded enough in this game. And can you point out please what game you're talking about? Because if it's one of two games I'm thinking of then I actually have something to add to this.

[hewitt]

no, i can't, because I'm not going to discuss ongoing games.

I understand slight shifts of view depending on the game or situation. however, you fought SO HARD against sens, acting like you couldn't even fathom the idea. that's not a situational shift of thought.

Okay see that's what I thought. It's not so much of a contradiction it's the evolution of my game if you go back and look at those ongoing games and why I'm not against policy lynches you'll see that it's later than the posts I made on D1 in this game. And that change in my game came from meeting one player in this game- Empking. Until I began playing with him a lot and seeing his type of gameplay I couldn't understand policy lynches and why everybody thought they were such a good idea. But once I began playing basically every single one of my games with Empking it became clear to me the usefulness of policy lynches.

[hewitt]

And you know what of course I'm going to fight "SO HARD" for what I believe in. I would expect the rest of the town to fight for what they think and who they think is scum because if you aren't I think that's just playing cowardly. You can't play safe when you're town because you aren't safe, laying low and not attracting attention to yourself and your opinions is no use to the rest of the town.

[hewitt]

yet you were arguing the point regarding zwet as lately as yesterday.

Because I still don't think the wagon on him was right, I don't consider zwets a policy lynch and I don't like people who go into a game specifically set on putting a policy lynch on someone. Players like SensFan, Dejkha, etc who do that make me think they don't have their head in the present game.

[hewitt]

You didn't just vote for him though, you started and encouraged a bandwagon on him. How would you have reacted if people had kept jumping on and just lynched him.

[hewitt]

You didn't just vote for him though, you started and encouraged a bandwagon on him. How would you have reacted if people had kept jumping on and just lynched him.

That's sort of what happened...and I had absolutely no problem with it, because he was everything I expected.

Everything you expected? What is that supposed to mean that he was the cop?

[hewitt]

You didn't even give him a chance to play the fucking game jeez it was like page 2 when you were jumping down his throat.

[hewitt]

Then what exactly did you want him to do, what did you want him to say that he didn't say because whether you like it or not he was in the game which means he was playing. He may not have been playing the way you'd like him to play but he was playing.

[hewitt]

Well I've got to hand it to you guys, you're doing a very fine job of town-hunting so far.

[hewitt]

Oh no I'm talking about this day not D1. I'm just being pissy cause I've never been lynched as a townie before.

[hewitt]

Oh no I'm talking about this day not D1. I'm just being pissy cause I've never been lynched as a townie before.

wa wa wa appeal to emotion

Again it's not appeal to emotion it's truth.

[hewitt]

I'm thoroughly convinced you're determined to 100% lynch me anyway so there's no point.

[hewitt]

Uh I think it's pretty obvious that zazier has not taken a passive side-line position, that statement was a little stupid.

[hewitt]

And I also think it's interesting that the person who has their vote on you and quite clearly explained their vote on you and you turn around and call them a passive side-liner.

[hewitt]

you're not doign yourself any favor hewitt.

zaz had said nothing new for almost a week... I call that not taking a stand.

What favor am I not doing myself? I don't have to worry about being lynched and having it game over for my team. If I get lynched my townmates will continue on without me and if I am lynched then hopefully that would help that find scum so don't tell me I'm not doing myself a favor when if you're town I'm doing you a helluva good favor.

[hewitt]

you're not doign yourself any favor hewitt.

zaz had said nothing new for almost a week... I call that not taking a stand.

By nothing new do you mean she's had the same stance on the issue for the week? Because I've had my same stances this whole game and would that make me a passive side-liner?

And don't fucking change my quotes around.

[hewitt]

Okay well thank you for clearing that up I was asking you if that's what you meant and it wasn't so I understand what you meant now.

[hewitt]

And yeah I may be the D2 lynch right now but there's still 5 days until D2 is over.

[hewitt]

Unvote

Vote: Hewitt

Hewitt's last posts have been unbeleivably scummy.

Sekinj: If they're just here to follow grudges or mess around (Hohum and Hewitt) then maybe. If they're trying to scum hunt then hell no.

I think you're scummy.

I can only remember your last AtE and the "i'm town" claim.

That's because we the majority of the players want Hewitt lynched.

You seem a bit worried about getting votes.

Why do you think KMD changed his mind?

I would just like to point out that Empking has added pretty much nothing of substance to the bandwagon on me and has added pretty much no original thought. These are all his posts since voting for me, I'm just pointing out that I would be such a convenient bandwagon for him if he was scum.

[hewitt]

Because you hammered scum of course. If sekinj honesty 100% believed that I was scum then I think she would've hammered a long time ago.

[hewitt]

My reply was totally sarcastic and it doesn't even make sense for her to agree with what I said considering she was 100% deadset on voting for me and now all of the sudden she's turned around and is delaying it. I was actually kind of insulting her by saying the only reason she didn't jump on your back is because you hammered scum and that's an inconsistency in her playstyle because did it not seem like she was going to hammer me?

Whatever though, I wasn't answering for her. I don't even get why she agreed with what I was saying.

[hewitt]

It's D2...zwets wagon happened on the last day. It's not as if it's D4 and I'm still bitching about D1 SensFan. I do think you have a large amount of responsibility for zwets death that you haven't yet admitted to which I think is irresponsible and stupid because it's plainly obvious that it's true. I already explained what I meant by I "knew" Darkcoffeejazz was scum so whatever on that one.

[hewitt]

Yeah I don't get how I'm supposedly being contradictory in the first place when you don't even know if I'm town or scum in those games sekinj.

[hewitt]

Sekinj for fuck's sake just hammer already, I've told you I'm town and whatnot so the only thing that seems to be holding you back is that you're nervous I'm going to flip town (which I will) and you don't want the blame to be on you.

DROP THE HAMMER YOU COWARD.

If you think I'm scum you should know be putting the town before yourself and hammering scum without being nervous if I am or not. To goal is to lynch scum, if you think I'm scum, then fucking do something about it. You are being the passive side-liner by stating your opinions but not doing anything about it.

Vote: sekinj

Because you're putting yourself and your stance in the game way in front of the rest of the town.

[hewitt]

hewitt - that point is moot you retard. kmd unvoted. exactly like I suspected might happen. he wanted a chance to be sure of the case on you. that is thanks enough for me not hammering.

...yeah way to totally make an ass out of yourself.

[hewitt]

what revenge will i have tomorrow? i'll be dead the game will go on blah blah, hopefully though town will pull it together and finish it tomorrow.

[hewitt]

like you have done the whoel game?

how so? i never lied, i never jumped on a bandwagon i thought was stupid, and i never was once anti-town so yeah i don't see what you're getting at.

[hewitt]

when did i ever, ever state i was perfect.

[hewitt]

uh you said i made an ass out of myself this whole game and i disagreed because i didn't do anything that's anti-town so you can go suck it =)

[hewitt]

why would you go after me?

[hewitt]

oh crap i meant why would they go after you.

[hewitt]

omg. yes. i will hammer. I can see that I will need to avoid all games with sense and zaz. there is no point to them.

vote: hewiit

and don't worry hewitt, I'm sure you will have your revenge tomorrow.

What? Avoid games with Zazie? What the hell has she done other than question a player she found scummy? Seriously. How the fuck is that bad play?

And he will have his revenge tomorrow? What's that supposed to mean? If he is scum, there is no tomorrow. If you just hammered him knowing he was town, you are easily tomorrows lynch.

Seriously though. Lay the fuck off Zazie. If you think she's scum (Doubtful. You look pretty bad right now), fine. But she is NOT a bad player AT ALL.

Same goes for Sens. He knows what he's doing. He's a smart player too.

what the hell? if you just hammered him knowing he was town? first of all doesn't matter because you wouldn't know if she knew i was town or not and second of all why would that make sekinj the next day's lynch when you are equally to blame?

and there will be a tomorrow.

[hewitt]

Hewitt:

and don't worry hewitt, I'm sure you will have your revenge tomorrow.

okay wtf i don't care about revenge or any of that shit i just don't want town to lose.

kmd - I dont' care at this point.

you guys can lynch two townies in a row

, and hopefully, since dcj was brought down fast, the remaining scum can still be found. although I can't profess very much patriotism for this town...

...hm remembering me getting slammed for my "appeal to emotion"...

[hewitt]

hm i wonder who's going to be nightkilled tonight?

[hewitt]

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow i'm just soooo shocked.

[hewitt]

i would just like to gloat about how right i was in attacking sensfan. *patting myself on the back*

[hewitt]

...cause you weren't scum. yeah. so over this game, it was a piece of shit that i shouldn't have replaced into in the first place. peace out bitches.