Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: asia


"Get angry easily" =4

"Take charge" =5

"Make people feel welcome" =5

"Like music" =4

"Like to tidy up" =3

"Like to visit new places" =5

"Feel comfortable around people" = 4

"Interested in many things" =4

"Love order and regularity" =3

"Am afraid to draw attention to myself" =2

"Enjoy being part of a large crowd" =2

"Cheer people up" =4

"Lose my temper" =4

"Enjoy the beauty of nature" =5

"Enjoy thinking about things" =4

"Cheat to get ahead" =1

"Feel desperate" =2

"Rarely overindulge" =3

"Easily resist temptations" =4

"Have a high opinion of myself" =4

"Waste my time" =3

"Need a push to get started" =2

"Have little to contribute" =2

"Keep my cool" =3

"Avoid crowds" =2

"Turn my back on others" =1

[Bellaphant]

Nine pages of nonsense!i don't think it's massively ia for fire, I think grim might be town and I'm biased into reading frog as town. If you are all town , please stop.

Aisa is fine and I've found them fairly easy to read as both alignments.

[Bellaphant]

Actually no.

[Bellaphant]

@grib, and kinda @fire, I find pages and pages of the same people going back and forth just turns in to white noise for me. Im pretty sure I've seen fire do it as both alignments, possibly slightly more as town? But it doesn't stick out for me as telling.

@aisa, sorry, I had you mixed up with another replace in in a similar times newbie who's name started with a. You were town in our game (yes?) And you've recently been town in a game with klick, where I had you as town very early. I do think I read a game you were scum in recently-ish, but I wouldn't swear to it.

@bbt, I was really into this player list and really hope to be actually town with you. I think this is town Ish for frog, but I am aware I'm easily swayed by them as a player.

Elemis is the player that's pinged me the most.

[Bellaphant]

Ah, fair enough. I think I've done before that as both alignments - bigger fights to fight than correcting a true read based on a false premise - but wouldn't blame you for thinking that's scummy and I should probably have corrected it.

@bbt, I find frog to be charismatic without being patronising, plus I can generally follow their thoughts when town: we've played together a fair bit recently, although I actually don't think they've been scum (they might have been scum once, I'm tired). Elemis, I basically haven't liked any posts at all, their reads were weird and justifying their read on me, when I think I'd posted like twice and one was a likert scale, they weren't able to do, just shrug. Like, even saying 'vibes' would've not bothered me as much.

Also, I do think aisa is town. Although @aisa, can I have a link to a scum game?

[Bellaphant]

I don't know why that quoted.

VOTE: elements

I honestly thought he was called elemis, isn't that weird.

[Bellaphant]

Imma read aisa's scum game. Also, I forgot not mad and soleay were in the game.

Sorry elements, something else I read wrong. Did we play together recently?

[Bellaphant]

Talk to me about hpe and tsq @elements?

[Bellaphant]

Also, I read aisa's scum game, it was a sweet buddying ride.

[Bellaphant]

I can see what bbt was saying though? Tsq kinda jumped on a thing and then was like 'haha you did a thing' when he responded. It felt like siblings more than s v s or s v t. I don't think tsq is scummy for what they did and I feel they believe in it, I still think it's lame and weird.

[Bellaphant]

I thought fire was null, then scum, then this page maybe town. Fun times.

@hpe, talk to me about the frog vote? Is there an element of omgus?

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: hpe

Everything it posts feels really disengenuous but also like it knows that.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah gonna be real here, the game's activity is largely dominated by like 3 or 4 people and the vote is scattered. Still personally feeling Frogster right now but like. BBT

is

up there too. In the interest of running things along, this one shall UNVOTE: FrogsterKing and VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee, and then probably get on Frog's case again unless he stops acting weird.

Shea and BBT's arguments are alot to unravel in terms of where logic begins and personality ends, but the core of the matter is that BBT is just, yeah kinda scummy. So here's to less flopping around like fish and more pushing votes and wagons.

Like here: I agree with the first sentence, but there isn't really a depth of thought behind it: I'd be shocked if all if grib/fire/tsq/frog are town, the thread is nearly unreadable. The voting nice feels really self conscious and steps away from the reads in the same sentence, then commits, then goes back to ,'doing it fit the wagon/game'. It isn't the first post that's feltike this from the slot

[Bellaphant]

Also I was in that lost game, I'd rather not elim bbt day one

[Bellaphant]

...Why would you sheep BBT's read on Bella if they're your top scumread?
VOTE: Solway Firth

I was about to ask just this!

[Bellaphant]

Enchant is another one that I don't really like being a day one wagon .he gets pushed as mis lim bait but also, the things I town read enchant for tend to come later, like mech stuff, but then I've played a lot with them in the open queue. This doesn't feel like town enchant or town nm, honestly.

Eiralox could be scum. #hottake

I don't see as sure about aisa being town as I did,.but this isn't like the scum game they shared.

[Bellaphant]

@eir, come talk to me, not about me?


I think fire could be town and frog could be scum. I low key think aisa might be town but it's a meta read and not a good one. Grib can be town. In annoyed no one engaged me on hpe. I find the back and forth between grid/tsq/fire/frog/a little bbt soeta unreadable' because it looks like a pissing contest and I never get anything out of them.

So, there's some stuff to get your teeth into

P-edit enchant could well be scum. I don't want nm ans enchant to be scum but I've played with both of them recently and won in a scum team with nm, they could both be doing more

[Bellaphant]

You've both focused on the least important bit of that sentence, I don't know if i'm just ridiculously unclear.

I thought its initial take was really surface, that's why I mentioned the scum agenda of making the thread unreadable, that it didn't feel like it had engaged with. My main point was about it's further reads and vote: it felt like it was making two steps toward a read, then walking it back, etc. Do you not get really self conscious vibes from their posts? I can find more in its iso! They don't feel organic to me at all.

[Bellaphant]

Sol voted for bbt and in the same breath said they were ok with bbts read on me, which felt trolly.

[Bellaphant]

Also, the whole thread isn't unreadable now at all, but there are like two lots of at least three pages that turned my brain to jelly.

[Bellaphant]

Random catch up stuff:

I've looked back at hpe and some of the wishy washyness I fel about its reads might be because of its posting style. Im not seeing what I was. I'm not loving the throwing around of votes but again it might be a style thing.

Re: bbt and lost - I was saying that in that game you collected scum reads for some fairly poor reasons, and you were town. A consensus scum read on you is a really easy place for scum to hide. I personally think you get more readable as either alingment the further we go in the game. You played with klick recently as town and he thought you were scum but by mid game I was like 'no, town'.

Re: enchant, nm and eir
I've never read nm as scum when he's town. I'm not getting that here.
Enchant is a slot I wouldn't want to elim today.
Eir I was scum reading because their posts didn't leave an impact on me, but now they've reached out I feel better.

[Bellaphant]

@fire, are you still happy with your vote?

[Bellaphant]

Why?

[Bellaphant]

(also, bbt, if you are snowing me like Lukewarm did I will be sad face)

[Bellaphant]

Fooling, it's cool new lingo!

[Bellaphant]

Tbf like I have a pool of 'my read changes every time they post ', which does include you, hpe and Eir, (I don't like how's recent posting, you were really pushy about your elims in that scum game, etc) but yeah. I think voting soleay gives us a good shot at some info though, if nothing else.

.I feel like I should be getting more out of hpe's posts in particular.

[Bellaphant]

I disagree with a lot of how tsq wants to play as well, which is really obsuvring my read on him.. originally I felt that they were 100% commited to their stance on bbt but I just don't vibe with their approach at all.

[Bellaphant]

My issue with fire is that they are still on the same vote from page three. Like, that's just fucking weird.

[Bellaphant]

I think grib knows the solve is a bit lame? Like I don't massively town read any of those three but that team just screams 'convenient'. I don't think it's sunny for him to suggest it though.

Like, I kinda think there's a scum in the lurker pile, a scum in the big ego posters and a scum in my middle pile. But again, life is never that easy.

@tsq, do you mean the push for solway is a 'lim all lurkers' push generally or just for grib?

[Bellaphant]

I think grib knows the solve is a bit lame? Like I don't massively town read any of those three but that team just screams 'convenient'. I don't think it's sunny for him to suggest it though.

Like, I kinda think there's a scum in the lurker pile, a scum in the big ego posters and a scum in my middle pile. But again, life is never that easy.

@tsq, do you mean the push for solway is a 'lim all lurkers' push generally or just for grib?

There's really nothing convenient about scumreading TSQ. I almost didn't want to post it until Day 2, when we had two flips to work with.

?? Explain this to me?

[Bellaphant]

The claim without other reads is scummy, I can hammer?

[Bellaphant]

Welp, my reads are trash. I didn't want to think all of the people pinging me day one were town but yeah. My reads aren't normally that bad.

[Bellaphant]

@fire, I'm starting to think you just don't like way I post.

I really thought I had day one more sorted, there was deffo scum inElements/ hpe/tsq/frog/n_m/maybe fire.

I want to look again at

eir

, who was another slot I wavered on.

[Bellaphant]

Because you go into my posts just deciding I'm wishy washy: you did it last day phase and then backtracked and then did the same thing now. It's pretty obvious that there's a certain kind of player I really struggle with reading, and we happen to have a fair amount of them in Thai game. People who are actually trying to read me, like eir and honestly bbt, are reading me right.

I am town reading bbt. Pointing the tsq nk at him is like level 0 of a read.

I don't have a solve ready. That's not how I play.

[Bellaphant]

Fire, I don't know how to say what I'm saying any clearer. I spent day one convinced that there must be fair portion of scum in the group of people I find difficult to read, and I've been really clear who they are and why. It's really frustrating to think that the slots that I really struggle to engage with are the ones I need to. I don't know how to make this clearer.

I thought that town! Any slot would give final reads at an impending hammer. Honestly any decent reads there might have made me reconsider. I don't think this is unusual? I'm also super hesitant to hammer: recently (a game frog and nm and a.few other people) were in I hammered with what looked like consensus and scum tried to use it to mislim me. It's also just totally nai for me, I'm just cautious as a person.
Like I said, your read on me feels 100% personality based. Which is funny (not really) because a lot of my reads were two day one and they were shit.

I might be wrong about bbt, but I have also seen him mis limmed as town a lot recently. I did feel like his engagement with me was genuine, but his lack of content today is worrying. I think Eir is town because of our chat about the game being 'unreadable': I said it, they took exception, they said something actually similar, I explained my actual position and we came to a consensus.

[Bellaphant]

Thanks for the reply Frog.

I'm not really loving Frog and I think this is kind of an underrated wagon atm, so VOTE: frogsterking.

Does anyone wanna talk to me about Enchant?

@bella

, what's your approach towards the game rn? I understand this is a pretty generic question, interpret it as you will

My approach, generally, is to find town: I've spoken about this a lot recently, even in the personality test. It's what I'm struggling with here: I think if could just lock town like, you, grib, fire, bbt and Eir that's a lot, but I'm really iffy on you and grib and bbt.

Welp, was vaguely hoping the scum read on TSQ would dissuade a shot there. That sucks.

This isn't a great entry post. Why did you think your one read on TSQ would make a difference? Why would your scum read on TSQ make any more of an impact than mine?

BBT, can you tell me why you think Eira is scum?

Sure, I don't see him taking any real stances. I have scum read him pretty much from the get go and nothing has changed. Almost all of his posts are like 'Could be this, could be that, no conclusion'. I also found his early town read of your slot weird, and unless I am missing it, he still hasn't explained it. As well as this, I find myself wondering why Fire doesn't have a problem with Eira's posting considering he is accusing Bella of being wishy-washy when I think Bella has been more straight forward with her reads this game than she has previously.

Kind of paranoid that BBT has been buddying her.

Talk about this more?

Welp, my reads are trash. I didn't want to think all of the people pinging me day one were town but yeah. My reads aren't normally that bad.

This isn't a great post Bella. I don't know if you have on future pages, but if not, could you explain where you're currently at in terms of reads?

Ill just go with enchant/aisa/grib are townie for reactions/posts after flips.
No need to think hard this early day 2.

Talk about how Grib's reaction gives you a town read?

However, I do think we might've flubbed it hard by not killing BBT.

VOTE: BBT

Umm, reasons?

Actually, I'll try an experiment.

BBT, would you be able to link your most recent towngame where you gave a read that was mostly, if not entirely, based on meta? Bonus points if someone scumread you for it. Extra bonus points if that someone was scum.

I would imagine that there have been a couple of games lately where I have made a read on Bella specifically using meta. Honestly though, I really can't be bothered to go trolling through all my recent posts to find it.

there was deffo scum inElements/ hpe/tsq/frog/n_m/maybe fire.

I want to look again at

eir

, who was another slot I wavered on.

You just named half the playerlist, Bella.

Let's vote Eira?

VOTE: BBT
This is scum and I don't think anyone can convince me otherwise

Reasons?

I'm reasonably confident that scum are in Eira/Frog/Grib/Elements. I can't say I am confident in Enchant being town but they feel town and I don't have a clue how to read NM.

Fire, Aisa and Bella are reasonably strong town reads, in that order.

I quite like this post. Have a more general response: I know that's half the player list, I was also fairly wrong. Of your scum reads, eir is town, I think one of frog or grib is scum but not both, Ans I scum read elements day one and feel like I should just go back to that.

I am less convinced on nm and enchant and again, think it's unlikely that both are scum but one could be.

Elements, wanna vote Frog?

Talk to me about this?
Also, talk to me about aisa? I think I'm in my head about the slot.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: frog

[Bellaphant]

I spoke about eira recently: I can't see the scum motivation in their approach to me, specifically about when I said the 'game was unreadable'.
I think fire is town for similar reasons .I don't think three town are voting me right now, when two haven't engaged with me at all.
You repeating your statement is just massively unhelpful and I think you know that. Please, talk to me about aisa removed from Eir: one town post in her iso, even.

[Bellaphant]

My approach, generally, is to find town: I've spoken about this a lot recently, even in the personality test. It's what I'm struggling with here: I think if could just lock town like, you, grib, fire, bbt and Eir that's a lot, but I'm really iffy on you and grib and bbt.

can we revisit ur townreads from say day 1. Like how did u get BBT town from ur interactions. I had skimmed it and like BBT basically never talked to u. One or two mentions and it wasn't some discussion i would say indicates anything to anyone.

So lets talk about it

This is fair. Tbf the thing I haven't made as clear as I thought was that bbt was always 'town enough ', rather than some lock town soul read and it was more the push on him that looked scumny, which made me more likely to think that he was town. I'd just been in the lost game, where he was a universal scum read for not great reasons and I was one of the scum team.

I don't wanna talk about bbt any more, it's giving aisa silly ideas.

[Bellaphant]

I like Bella for scum too

Are you going to engage me at all?

@aisa, can you throw some more questions at me?

[Bellaphant]

@aisa again I was really confused by your scum game, it felt more buddying and hype-y than I expected but then you did something really similar this game And I was back to blank on you. I'm very conscious that I town read 'nice', so I don't want to give you a free pass!

[Bellaphant]

Gun to my head this is t v t. Pls can you both conaoldiate on a scum wagon? Fire, you should know your vote on me is bad by now.

If the final wagons are bbt v frog then we should do frog.

Why is anyone town reading elements?

[Bellaphant]

not voting you right now, and why would i think its bad now besides no one is voting it.

and elements is town. stop trying to open that as a possibility.

You reframe things in such a scummy way.
Really, someone tell me why they are tr-ing elements?

Aisa, I won't have time for your qs before deadline, but thanks.

[Bellaphant]

VC 2.07

With 10 players, it takes 6 to make a decision. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-10-27 11:00:00).

VC

BlueBloodedToffee [4]:

Frogsterking [1168], Elements [1237], Eiralox [1294], Grib [1297]

Frogsterking [4]:

Bellaphant [1122], BlueBloodedToffee [1124], Firebringer [1246], Aisa [1299]

Eiralox [1]:

Enchant [1278]

Not voting [1]:

Not_Mafia [1198]

Flavor

Spoiler: Modern Family

Have you looked at any of my other games before, elements?

[Bellaphant]

I actually feel better about my reads again, fire was obv town.
I don't think the bbt wagon clears frog.

I think my town block is eir/grib/probably aisa.
@aisa, going back to your questions now.

[Bellaphant]

I think grib knows the solve is a bit lame? Like I don't massively town read any of those three but that team just screams 'convenient'. I don't think it's sunny for him to suggest it though.

Like, I kinda think there's a scum in the lurker pile, a scum in the big ego posters and a scum in my middle pile. But again, life is never that easy.

@tsq, do you mean the push for solway is a 'lim all lurkers' push generally or just for grib?

This caught my eye when I reread, because it didn’t really match my perception of the game at the time. I’m struggling to explain exactly why, because when I think back I also had doubts on players of all activity levels.

Anyway, tell me a bit more about that? Tell me what parts of Day 2 have been town/scum driven? Who’s your top scum read?

My brain has this really unhelpful habit in mafia of grouping people: I can link to other places I've done it as town, and it tends to think very much in relationships and bad logic: there's statistically not three scum in all the top three posters, these two slots that have weird takes on the vc both aren't scum, etc.

Here, specifically I was talking a bit about the 'big noiae' players day one: fire, grib, frog, tsq and bbt a bit. I still don't tien read frog at all: as I said, his wagon doesn't clesr him, it actually makes me feel that my other counter wagon was Really scum driven. I was happy with fire being town by the middle of yesterday: that leaves I think Enchant, nm Ans elements are having voted me as unknowns.

The middle players are you, eira, maybe elements: again, I'm 100% eir Is town, I think bbts stance on you and Eir helps clear you, then there's elements.

Neither nm or enchant are playing how I've seen as town.

Basically my reads are
Eira
You and grib. ( The connection part of my brain worries I'm wrong on one of you, because both of you are town by vibe)
Then everyone else. It's probably not elements with frig, but I can't remember why I think that.

[Bellaphant]

VC 1.16

With 13 players, it takes 7 to make a decision. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-18 11:30:00).

VC

Solway Firth [5]:

Frogsterking [595], Aisa [735], Grib [789], BlueBloodedToffee [843], HighPrincessErinys [844]

BlueBloodedToffee [4]:

Eiralox [713], Solway Firth [733], Thestatusquo [888], Elements [931]

Aisa [3]:

Firebringer [80], Enchant [721], Not_Mafia [813]

HighPrincessErinys [1]:

Bellaphant [716]

Not voting [0]:

Flavor

Spoiler: Community

This feels like it should be significant?
Town wagon ???st

Scum wagon ?(t)TT?

Unknown T??

P-edit cools. Is it worth thinking about mass claim at all? Even the process would help me sort enchant

[Bellaphant]

Me. I think that frog could easily still be scum with those wagons: scum had a choice of voting either of the leading wagons, or me, which I think bbt didnt massively want. Thoughts?

I need to look back through his iso.

@aisa, I responded!

[Bellaphant]

I think FB was a weird kill all round.

@elements, my latest reads are on the last page.

[Bellaphant]

Not_Mafia
Has vote for: Me (biggest wagon), Aisa (making it the biggest wagon), Bella (weren't really any wagons at the time), Frog (biggest wagon)
The only biggest wagon NM didn't voted for was BBT. Both day 1 and day 2.
Conclusion: NM fits with BBT as scum

Are you actually town?

P-edit, trust me I wouldn't be as shit as I was day one/early day as scum.

[Bellaphant]

My approach, generally, is to find town: I've spoken about this a lot recently, even in the personality test. It's what I'm struggling with here: I think if could just lock town like, you, grib, fire, bbt and Eir that's a lot, but I'm really iffy on you and grib and bbt.

can we revisit ur townreads from say day 1. Like how did u get BBT town from ur interactions. I had skimmed it and like BBT basically never talked to u. One or two mentions and it wasn't some discussion i would say indicates anything to anyone.

So lets talk about it

This is fair. Tbf the thing I haven't made as clear as I thought was that bbt was always 'town enough ', rather than some lock town soul read and it was more the push on him that looked scumny, which made me more likely to think that he was town. I'd just been in the lost game, where he was a universal scum read for not great reasons and I was one of the scum team.

I don't wanna talk about bbt any more, it's giving aisa silly ideas.

Gun to my head this is t v t. Pls can you both conaoldiate on a scum wagon? Fire, you should know your vote on me is bad by now.

If the final wagons are bbt v frog then we should do frog.

Why is anyone town reading elements?

I think I was really clear that I never had a lock town town read on bbt - also, someone just asked if I was tr-ing fire end of day and yes, here.

I don't know what to make of elements at all. The enrgerg is massively different suddenly

P-edit that post looks town af, that's why.

[Bellaphant]

Like, there's lots of shit reasons to scum read nm, but that actually requires thought and work.

[Bellaphant]

@elements, is your analysis the end wagons, or people who were on Ans off? I tried to find a helpful VC but realised they all ended up showing a fairly wrong picture of events.

[Bellaphant]

This is the first time I’ve seen someone towntell so massively and obviously on Day 3, at least imo. I guess miracles can happen!

?

[Bellaphant]

? Everyone's really cryptic, can we elim nm?

[Bellaphant]

Oh yeah, elements is either like scum who's massively toenwd it up suddenly day three or was town all along.
I think I'd elim in nm/frog gap elem/enchant

[Bellaphant]

Enchant isny claiming vig, are they?

I really don't like aisa's position on me today, btw

[Bellaphant]

I'm the vig, guys.

[Bellaphant]

See: my panic start of day two where I vigged a mason.

[Bellaphant]

Also I'm now Sus of all this town power ..

[Bellaphant]

Tbf what frog has said has happened...

[Bellaphant]

No, I didn't shoot last night. Mistake, should have gone dith my gut and done nm. I shot hpe

[Bellaphant]

What's woat?

[Bellaphant]

Also I haven't full claimed but I don't think it matters

[Bellaphant]

I thought that mason claims was a joke?

The PT finder was just used in datisis cafe, or something very similar

[Bellaphant]

Erias town.

[Bellaphant]

Agreed

P-edit with grib

[Bellaphant]

Who are our vt claims?

[Bellaphant]

Elements claim?

[Bellaphant]

Is it just enchant to claim?

[Bellaphant]

I'm a complex vig. I should be able to shoot in the VT claims and have what is basically an inno? Or am I wrong?

[Bellaphant]

@grib, I got cold feet. I kicked myself for not just shooting nm..that's the elim I think I want today anyway, honestly?

Yeah, I guess at least I have to have slightly positive utility in that I don't shoot a claimed pr and at least then I can't kill? I would assume scum only have pr now.

[Bellaphant]

Eira, do you think there's a RB?

[Bellaphant]

It's set up, really.

Let's say I'm sure eira is a pr, but I don't know what alignment.
Let's say I believe frog, mainly because of the way they approach enchant when he spoke about being vig
I know I'm complex, which makes me p sure the rest of maf are pr
Three masons?? Is that balanced?

Also, one post about mech spec really pinged me.

[Bellaphant]

Who reviewed?

[Bellaphant]

LET COMPLEX VIG DEAL WITH IT.

THAT'S NOT A BAD IDEA

Roleblocker?

If NM doesn't die to vig shot they're either not a mason or mafia wanted to stop the kill. Either way we lim them.

I read as far as this and think this is a good idea?

[Bellaphant]

N1. I am hoping they have a town reason for not claiming. I'd much rather shoot nm than eira? Or should I shoot a VT claim either way?

I'm sorry I'm shit.

[Bellaphant]

I'm here, who am I voting

[Bellaphant]

It's been bedtime for the kids.

[Bellaphant]

I'm gonna shoot grib.

[Bellaphant]

Can I hammer?

[Bellaphant]

It's either then or elements for my own reads, you know?

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: not mafia

[Bellaphant]

@sxum, was I chosen for mailman because of the likert score?

[Bellaphant]

@frog, this is like the third game (second) with you recently where my reads have actually been ok early (masque, here, and the voting for prs one), where I've then let myself be totally swayed by the consensus. I really need to work on my confidence!