Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[ChaosOmega]

*waves*

Was expecting to get to this earlier, but got swamped at work today. Reading through now.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: GuiltyLion E-2

55/56 read stilted, like you want to get on the building wagon but look like you have a good reason for it. @GL, can you link me your most recent scumgame?

57 has a weird tone to me as well. The townvibe is fine, but the way you asked for opinions feels unnatural. What information were you hoping to get from asking everyone that?

I'm not going through my past games to look for something as inconsequential as this. Every game I look at the playerlist, pick a name on vibe, decide to give a reason or not based on my mood, then put the first thing that pops into my head down if I do. I've probably not said this combo of words ever because most people haven't snowed me in the specific associative way you did and also that one time we played back in 2016 and I called you scum but my hydra did not agree to lim you

If you do it frequently, it shouldn't be hard to find another example of it, no? I'm not looking for the specific combo of words, rather just anything like "vote: [x], you were scum last game we played", if that's

ever

been your reasoning for your first vote.

if you're not willing to do that to help me get over my dislike of your first post, fine,

but I don't know why you wouldn't want to help me see you as town here if you're town

, it shouldn't be too hard to do a quick survey of past town games and I'll probably wind up doing it myself later regardless

Bold mine. If Dwlee was scum, they would also presumably want you to see them as town though. I'm not sure if I'm just parsing it weird or if it does have a manipulative vibe. Did you look through Dwlee's past games for this?

323 reads lame. You and Dwlee are the two leading wagons, and it looks like the point you're arguing is more active == more pro-town. It's like you're looking for easier lims to push through instead of looking for scum, especially with the swing onto Meuh in 407. Is the reason you haven't voted for HEM that you don't believe you can build a wagon on them?

-----

I also scumread NK15, the tone in their posting feels fabricated almost to the point like I'm reading a robot. The hyperfocus on the 1 scum/1 traitor thing is silly. It feels really unlikely that GL and NK15 are partnered given NK15's shift onto the wagon, so I think I'm wrong on at least one of my top reads here.

I've found it difficult to read Dwlee in the past, and this game isn't much new so far. @Dwlee, in 391, do you think GL/HEM is S/S?

[ChaosOmega]

323 reads lame. You and Dwlee are the two leading wagons, and it looks like the point you're arguing is more active == more pro-town. It's like you're looking for easier lims to push through instead of looking for scum, especially with the swing onto Meuh in 407. Is the reason you haven't voted for HEM that you don't believe you can build a wagon on them?

You misunderstand me here, I'm not trying to argue that I should be townread at large or seen as pro-town, but rather trying to understand how HEM could be so confident I'm scum given the early stage of the game and for pushing on a slot I saw as not likely to be confidently townread by anybody at that point.

The reason I'm not voting HEM is a) because I hate that he tried to manipulate/goad me into voting him and I refuse to allow him to bully my vote that way on principle, and b) because even though I find HEM vaguely scummy, I also don't believe I'm super likely to be correct there. I absolutely do start with easier to pressure/sort players on D1, I believe people who tunnel themselves on the hard-to-read high-activity slots are often wildly wrong in doing so and it's best to use D1 lim on lurky slots that don't have any real remote reason to townread them. I explained this in more detail in my last game I played and I stand by it here as well, it's far easier to imagine me just personality clashing/not liking HEM and being wrong than it is to find good quality reasons to townread a low activity slot that isn't yet even playing. Especially in Meuh's case as the town game marci linked did seem wildly different to her first posts in this game.

I think this is more of a playstyle difference, at least how I'm reading it. The confidence in the push from HEM reads more like bravado (or confidence in himself) more than confidence in the read. There is probably a better way to put it, but I can't think of it.

And that's fair with the personality clash. I've run into that issue a couple times in more recent games (one was Dwlee in the large we played together recently).

I also scumread NK15, the tone in their posting feels fabricated almost to the point like I'm reading a robot. The hyperfocus on the 1 scum/1 traitor thing is silly. It feels really unlikely that GL and NK15 are partnered given NK15's shift onto the wagon, so I think I'm wrong on at least one of my top reads here.

I've found it difficult to read Dwlee in the past, and this game isn't much new so far. @Dwlee, in 391, do you think GL/HEM is S/S?

also on this, I find it a little peculiar you're willing to put me at E-2 when you don't have a solid read on Dwlee and you SR NK15. maybe my brain just works differently but I feel like not being sure about Dwlee should mean you can empathize with how town in my slot would want a wagon there, and SRing NK15 should absolutely disincentivize you from voting alongside him. who are your townreads?

I didn't have anything really in particular to question Dwlee on, it felt more productive to pressure you. The NK15 point is valid, and I brought it up in my post that I'm very likely wrong somewhere here. Gamma has experience with him and says that NK15 feels town, so if that's just his posting style, I need to look past my view of his tone, which is definitely coloring my read of his slot.

Townreads right now are marci, HEM, and Koba.

-----

Alright, reading back through from my last post now.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Gamma

The L-1 vote with no conviction even though he's mentioned GL as a suspect reads bad, like he knows GL will flip town and is already trying to pivot. It coming right after GL's post that my vote is +town for bravery is a funny juxtaposition. Have to go, will be back on later tonight.

[ChaosOmega]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

Is there motivation for scum!Roden to make that defense for town!GL?

[ChaosOmega]

didn't you only really start defending GL when I put him at E-1?

I'm not arguing that. You're claiming I did it to turn things around on you. I'm asking how it's possible that I could've planned for you to take the actions you took in order for me to do so. I never scum read you for putting GL at E-1 so you can't even accuse me of trying to pivot his wagon momentum onto you, since my scum read on you happened around the time the wagon began to ease up.

VOTE: guiltylion E-1
This game is dead af, let’s at least make something happen soon

Game is dead so you want to vote out one of the top posters??

Is 480 not scumreading Gamma for the E-1 vote?

Chaos do you think Roden should be townreading you

I haven't posted a lot, so probably not. Why ask this?

The confidence in the push from HEM reads more like bravado (or confidence in himself) more than confidence in the read. There is probably a better way to put it, but I can't think of it.

am i not a bit suspicious

If you're asking if I 100% town-read you, the answer is no. I don't understand the purpose of this question either, but here you go.

I didn't have anything really in particular to question Dwlee on, it felt more productive to pressure you. The NK15 point is valid, and I brought it up in my post that I'm very likely wrong somewhere here. Gamma has experience with him and says that NK15 feels town, so if that's just his posting style, I need to look past my view of his tone, which is definitely coloring my read of his slot.

Townreads right now are marci, HEM, and Koba.

Since you were going off of Gamma for your NK15-town but you now think they're scum are voting them, are you back to putting NK15 in the top of your scumreads? How do you fell that they are still adamant on GL + Roden scum?

I skimmed a couple of NK15's past games to compare. His tone here seems more stilted than both previous games as town and scum I looked at, but it reads NAI given he does it as either alignment. So no, he's not at the top of my scumreads currently.

As for Gamma's GL/Roden scumreads, it feels like a progression following the path of least resistance. Gamma jumps on the GL wagon to make it E-1, justifies it because of game advancement more than a scumread, rides Koba's coattails to pivot to Roden, and then trying to back away from the GL push in 621/629/690.

(also so they post moar, i have them as a townlean but not quite the towniness I've felt in games with him yet)

I do not negotiate with terrorists, lol. I prefer to post at work since I like doing actually fun stuff on the weekend, but I was swamped this week, so here we are.

Vote: ChaosOmega

Putting my vote here for now to apply pressure + also that they were on the GL wagon, though there's a good chunk of other low posting people I'd also like more content from (tictac, marci, NK15).

Do you think an E-4 vote with no real reason applies pressure?

Vote: ChaosOmega

Putting my vote here for now to apply pressure + also that they were on the GL wagon, though there's a good chunk of other low posting people I'd also like more content from (tictac, marci, NK15).

all of those "lowposters" have more posts than you.

This is a weird snipe, ShadowGirl responds right after that they're a replacement and obviously wouldn't have the same postcount. scum!Gamma implies town!Shadow here I think.

[ChaosOmega]

{marci, Koba}
{HEM, Roden}
{GL, tictac, Shadow}
{NK15, Dwlee, Meuh}
{Gamma}

[ChaosOmega]

Marci and koba are your strong townreads? Why?

For marci, the initial push on Meuh with her reasoning read +town, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of her posts. 776 in particular feels like she pulled it out of my brain. Koba matches the vibe I would expect from town!Koba, hyper-aggressive, confident, they just feel like my previous games with them.

Why is marci your top scumread?

[ChaosOmega]

Apologies, life events have not lined up well with this game. If I need to be prodded again, I'm going to ask for replacement.

It looks like the wagons are between Meuh and HEM and no one's interested in Gamma/Enchant, so I'll make my vote useful.

VOTE: Meuh

??? How do you have gamma and i on opposite ends

I don't know what you mean with this question, so I'll be dumb and say that I townread you and scumread Gamma, and then you can clarify what your point is.

Do you think an E-4 vote with no real reason applies pressure?

I would say tie-ing for lead wagon (3-3) is an application of pressure, and I'm explained in other posts that I find the speed of GL's wagon and how close he got to being voted out to make believe there were scum on that wagon, and you and Gamma were the ones who got on very quickly (I also have my eye on Gamma for their E-1, which I've spoken about). If you want me to give further elaboration about you, the vibes from your lurkiness: you came back to vote solely Gamma due to their E-1 on GL (a wagon you were on, and were the E-2, due to thinking GL was scum) which is a pretty easy vote to make. Your next post after that was a question to another player, with no other analysis about other things go on.

1) What are your thoughts on Roden's defense of GL?
2) What are your thoughts on DkKoba re: their interactions with Dwlee?
3) If you have experience with DkKoba in a game where they were scum, what is their differentiation from their town game?
In general, which I've already spoken about in a multitude of other posts, I don't love "clearing" someone solely on meta of other games and no current game reasons, so can you give any specific in-game actions that make you read DkKoba as among your top town read?
4) What gives you scumreads on Dwlee?

1) It seemed over-the-top, but it makes sense if GL is one of your top townreads. It could maybe be construed as trying to pocket GL, but given that it was going against the grain of what was happening and Roden got scrutiny for it, that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
2) It's hard to say because we're not getting the whole picture, a lot of it seems to be happening behind the scenes.
3) I don't have experience with scum!Koba, their posting in this game reminds me of previous games I've played with them. In terms of actions in this game, their push on Roden looks town. I don't agree with it, but it reads legitimate with the way they were pushing the argument.
4) Dwlee said they had a scumread on Gamma, but then didn't push it after moving off HEM, and is now jumped on the Meuh wagon. Part of this is timing obviously given the deadline, but Dwlee/Gamma(Enchant) interactions have read more as not liking each other but not trying to push each other, I think there's a decent chance their interactions are S/S.

[ChaosOmega]

Like, stay here and chat? I have some time.

[ChaosOmega]

I'm happy to switch back to Enchant if there's support for it, but seems very unlikely given current deadline.

Like, stay here and chat? I have some time.

Would you mind reacting to the events:
1. My wagon
2. Meuh's wagon

Can you also share your read on your own wagon?

If you can would you update your reads for us?

You're quite a hard guy to get a hold of

Your wagon, you say Roden and Meuh jump on with nothing, that's not entirely true. Roden has been making a case for you all day. The immediate pivot from NK15 reads weird, though. Meuh's jump-on reads more survivalist in nature, since you're the top 2 wagons. NK15 has a case it looks like, but hasn't expanded on it at all, just keeps saying to lim you.

Meuh's wagon looks like a core of people who've been on the wagon and a few people compromising recently. I don't really see much from Meuh, I'm not opposed to the wagon.

My wagon has faded, but I get why there was pressure on me. I'm not usually very active (which has been worse this game) and given my recent games here, I just tend to get scumread from my play. tictac's vote park on me reads lazy.

My reads are still pretty similar to 968 at this point.