Mini 680: Portlandia- Game Over!

[q21]

Vote X

For having a name shorter than mine.

[q21]

Only L-5, but anyway...

I'll admit to never having played a game with a miller before, so I'm not sure what the best course of action is to deal with one. Do we lynch him to clear up possible future complications? Do we let him go? Could he be scum trying to hide behind a miller claim? Anyone experience one the matter would be helpful.

unvote

, at least until the issue has been cleared up to some extent

[q21]

Only L-5, but anyway...

I'll admit to never having played a game with a miller before, so I'm not sure what the best course of action is to deal with one. Do we lynch him to clear up possible future complications? Do we let him go? Could he be scum trying to hide behind a miller claim? Anyone experience one the matter would be helpful.

unvote

, at least until the issue has been cleared up to some extent

- minor, but I don't see a reason to remove a random vote here unless you found a better place for it. Just curious as to why you felt the need to unvote just to discuss the issue.

Because it was just a random vote. I don't specifically want to lynch or pressure him so why leave my vote there when there is something I want to discuss.

- How to deal with X here depends on if you believe the claim or not. If you believe him, then there is no reason to lynch him. If he acts scummy, we lynch him.

I have seen this done once before and the player claiming was town. What he has basically done is say if he is investigated, he will come up guilty. We currently have no way of knowing if there is a miller in the game or not. He is either telling the truth or he is scum. Either way he would come up guilty if investigated. Beyond that, there is a level of WIFOM involved (although there is far more advantage for town miller to claim this than lying scum). It is not impossible scum would do this, but less likely than the obvious answer which would have X as town miller.

Do we lynch him to clear up possible future complications?

Not yet. If he's still alive in later days, or if he starts dropping other scum tells, then we should revisit the question.

I think I agree wit both these statements. One question for X though: Why wait until you had attracted a couple of votes, albeit random ones, before making the early miller claim? Why not claim miller in your first post?

[q21]

Only if he refuses to answer the question I asked him.

[q21]

Right, I generally happy with X's responses to questions about his Miller claim and therefore see no reason to revote him. I'm also interested to see the basis for Mr_Adams disbelief of the miller claim.

For now though I'd like to put my vote on Y.C. He random voted and then disappeared. Random votes are generally intended to get the discussion going and if you are then not around to participate in the any resulting discussion then your random vote comes off as only an attempt to fit in.

Vote Y.C

[q21]

Why do you rather vote someone who has already posted, instead of someone who hasn't posted yet?

Now that most people have arrived I see little point in voting someone who has never and may never post over someone who voted and then disappeared.

[q21]

The early claim made me uncomfortable. I've never played a game with a miller before, and I don't like it. It's the only thing I can think of that made me single him out as scum. still it's just a hunch. would you be more comfortable if I

unvote

FOS: X

?

I do not like this post at all, unvoting for no reason other than to appease the town is scummy. Others have mentioned this, but I think its worth saying again.

As I said in post 54. I've never played in a game with a miller before. (I had to go google the role to figure out what it was.) I reacted poorly, and now it looks like I'll be lynched for it. So be it, it'll be a lesson learned.

This is an appeal to emotion. It is for my money a scumtell.

The only, repeat: only, reason I am not going to change my vote to you is that I feel L-2 on page 3 is getting too close to quick-lynch territory. A quick day one lynch is bad for the town, even if you are scum. I will leave it at

HOS: Mr_Adams

.

[q21]

A quick day one lynch is bad for the town, even if you are scum.

Not if he's scum, it isn't. It's one scum down on Day 1, which is a big boost.

Newbie 595 Scum lynched on day one, page 6. Scum win.

Mini 617: Scottish Mafia Scum lynched on day one, page 6. Also scum win.

This is from my personal experience, but lynching quickly on day one doesn't seem to work - even if you do lynch scum.

I'm just a Tag Machine / Taggin' don't work for nobody but choo...

[q21]

EBWOP: code for wiki and threads is different and I just copy pasted... you can copy and paste the urls into the address line if your interested.

[q21]

Thank yo Mr.Mod... now my EBWOP looks daft... o well.

[q21]

The only, repeat: only, reason I am not going to change my vote to you is that I feel L-2 on page 3 is getting too close to quick-lynch territory.

I feel that this is a bit of a red herring. How many games have any of you seen (Newbie games excluded), where the scum piled onto someone who was at L-2 on Day 1 to quick lynch them? It would be suicide. I would gladly sacrifice one innocent townie on Day 1 to "out" the 2 scum who pile on a guy before anyone could react.

Actually, in the two games I linked (yes, I know ones a newbie game) the people who finished the lynch off quickly were town...

[q21]

EBWOP... I fail a tags.

[q21]

I don't agree completely with Farkshin. I want to read what the new players will say when we have any, but we shouldn't keep the posts to a minimum. With less posts, the new players will have less to comments about and before we know it, we're back at where we started.

But does someone else also not like q21's last post, excluding the one where he complains about the tags?

Care to say why you dislike it?

[q21]

The first line of that is part of a quote from Farkshinsoup, for which I screwed up the quoting, the second line is my response. To clarify, that post is supposed to look like:

The only, repeat: only, reason I am not going to change my vote to you is that I feel L-2 on page 3 is getting too close to quick-lynch territory.

I feel that this is a bit of a red herring. How many games have any of you seen (Newbie games excluded), where the scum piled onto someone who was at L-2 on Day 1 to quick lynch them? It would be suicide. I would gladly sacrifice one innocent townie on Day 1 to "out" the 2 scum who pile on a guy before anyone could react.

Actually, in the two games I linked (yes, I know ones a newbie game) the people who finished the lynch off quickly were town...

[q21]

So, we have Adams at L-1. Are we ready to lynch him? I'm leaning towards dropping the hammer with all the jester speculation. But, if he were actually a jester, he would have hammered, or at least voted himself, at this point.

Wanting to Hammer someone on page 5, without a claim... I don't like this post at all.

Scummier than Y.C?... Yes.

unvote, vote RBT

[q21]

I kept my vote on him as we don't know his allignment. He can say that he's a miller, while actually being scum and I don't want him out of the spotlight yet.

In response to Mr_Adam's vote on X:

Okay, i didn't like your hunch, but that is just your opinion. I can't change your opinion so i didn't respond to it, although I don't agree with it.

These 2 statements seem to contradict each other.

QFT. I pretty interested to see the response to this.

[q21]

Response to Mr_Adams participation.

Besides, I still don't see the harm in my putting a vote on the aledged miller is. It wasn't a lynching vote, infact, at the time, it was the ONLY vote. I really don't see scumminess there. Either you need to watch what mushrooms you eat, or your scum. (3)

For me I don't see scumminess in your vote. I saw scumminess in the fact that you removed your vote for no reason other than to lessed the pressure on yourself. "if that makes you guys comfortable" is I believe the wording you used. A few things you have said since then have bothered me too.

q21- first of all, whatis HoS? what happened to good 'ol FoS? pluss, the end of post 71 seems suspicious when compared to the comment about scum jumping on to finish off a lynch. I'll find it later, to make this more clear.

HoS - Hand of Suspicion. Like FoS, but bigger. As for post 71, please do go find it. I'm not sure what comment about "scum jumping to finish off a lynch" you are talking about. Also, I'm sad I didn't get a number
__________________________________________________________

To lay it out something like clearly.

Okay, i didn't like your hunch, but that is just your opinion. I can't change your opinion so i didn't respond to it, although I don't agree with it.

I kept my vote on him as we don't know his allignment. He can say that he's a miller, while actually being scum and I don't want him out of the spotlight yet.

The contradiction in these two posts is that in the first post you don't agree with Mr_Adams hunch that X may be scum. In the second post though you suggest that Mr_Adams may be scum as reason for keeping you vote on him.

He voted due to his hunch as if he was sure that scum X is saying that he's a miller to use it as an excuse when the cop would investigate him. I didn't.

I kept my random vote as I had no other player to chance it to and as nobody else was voting X there would be no harm keeping my vote. I also didn't know what to think of X's claim. Another reason for keeping my vote.

What should I think of the claim? Both sides could use this claim. Scum would have a reason why they turn up guilty when investigated by the cop. A townie would say it that the cop wouldn't make a mistake.
That's why I decided to decide if X is scum by his posts afterwards as this claim is a null-tell.

Suspects I have right now:
Adams for his unvote.
Bionicchop2 as I didn't like your reason for voting Chaz.
q21 as I don't what to think of those links and his explanation afterwards of which I already gave a comment about.

This can change soon.

This does nothing to clarify anything really. If anything he compounds his contradiction as at this point he is still voting for X, while making a list of three people he suspects... a list X isn't on. (but didn't he just say X may be scum? I thought he did.)

My RBT vote, it achieves nothing at the moment, though I would very much like to see more posting from RBT. At this moment a Zazier vote seems better.

unvote, vote Zazier

[q21]

The only, repeat: only, reason I am not going to change my vote to you is that I feel L-2 on page 3 is getting too close to quick-lynch territory. A quick day one lynch is bad for the town, even if you are scum. I will leave it at

HOS: Mr_Adams

.

Well, I can't find the other post I wanted, but I'll summarize it. something about

"Whens the last time you saw scum pile on to a bandwagon for a quick day one lynch?"
then
"I would happily sacrafice one townie on day one to get scum on days 2 and 3"

Your "Only, repeat, only reason" for not voting me, seemes like an apeal to the idea that scum would be piling on at this point.

Are you attributing the underlined bits to me? I made a post where I appeared to say that because I left out some quote tags. There is a corrected post later in the thread when I realised just how badly I had messed up the original.

Does that change your view at all?

[q21]

Yeah, except not your playstyle now, your playstyle before. . . I haven't seen you engaging in either of those things this game.

So you find him scummy for the way he played in a different game? May O be the first to say WTF?!

[q21]

Zazier - the last quote from you is contradictive (is that even a word?) because you say that you don't specifically think X is scum, you're just not sure about his claim. In pretty much the same breath (you know, if you were talking, not typing) you list other people who you do actively suspect.

At the end of it, though, you're still voting X.

[q21]

Sorry I'm not keeping up as much as I'd have liked. I'm normally more active than this, but its last week of Semester. Its hell.

Anyway, at this point there are some points raised against Xtoxm and I would appreciate some more reasoning from him, but in general I don't think he's scummy.

I am happy with my ZZR vote for now, at least until the weekend or early next week when I'll have a chance to reread. Her post 201 names 9 our of 11 people, excluding herself, as either scummy or worthy of "keeping in mind". Look much like smoke blowing to me.

[q21]

I didn't like KoC, hence my vot on him.

I find most of you particularly suspicious though, due to the attempts to lynch me.

I'll be gone this weeked, so please don't lynch me for disapearing!

This is not scumhunting. It is OMGUSing everyone who has expressed suspicion of you. It doesn't help anyone.

[q21]

It's still a legitimate town thought process when you feel the votes against you are complete shit (sometimes are...). I've been in the situation before.

But the votes directed his way weren't complete shit.

[q21]

I'd contest that. Pretty much any lynch on...What was it, page 5...The votes are probably complete shit.

A lynch would have been, but the votes weren't. Do you take particular exception to any of the votes, or do you just disapprove of them in general?

[q21]

Bah, guess it has been that long.

I really don't feel like anyone stands out far enough yet for a vote though. TSPN, Xtoxm, and Q21 are on my watch list though.

You are more than welcome to your opinion about who is scum, but reasons are good.

[q21]

While I have questioned him a few times about his defence of Adams I'd like to state that I don't think Xtoxm is scum. It seems too counter-intuitive for him defend Adams were Xtoxm scum and Adams not. And too risky if they're both scum given that Adams was, and to a lesser degree still is, a good bet for day one lynch despite Xtoxm's defence.

Happy with my Zazier Vote at the moment, though I would join an Adams lynch too.

[q21]

I know it happens, it just doesn't seem like that's what has happened this time. I think the situation was such that the smarter scum move would have been to push the Adams lynch along. Its a wifom situation that you have to pick a side of to believe, since Xtoxm hasn't done anything else scummy I choose to belief he's not scum for now.

Either town defending town or mistakenly defending scum. That would be my opinion.

[q21]

KoC's 276 is interesting and I can see some correlation between the things said there and his play style this game. That said I still don't think he's done anything particularly scummy this game and am not willing to vote someone based just on meta. It is something to keep in mind, and maybe reason to watch him more closely.

[q21]

His points and his case are complete bullshit, and I can't believe i'm being lynched.

Well fuck you.

Unvote Vote Xtoxm

Scum blowing up because he got caught easily without having actually done too much wrong? Quite possibly. Together with his scum meta I think this is enough to put you at L-1 (Y.C. Zazier, KoC, FSS, Xtoxm, me). Either claim or unvote yourself like a sane person who actually wants to play this game.

Unvote, Vote Xtoxm.

Vote count is updated. Sorry, real life intervened. Also, I'm sending out a batch of prods.

[q21]

I haven't played anything like my fucking scum meta, this is the most fucking pro-town i've been in ages. You are idiots.

Well, you're playing about the way KoC illustrated earlier, your play also reminds me of PYP:3 to a degree, you weren't one of the more active players in that game, though otherwise fairly similar.

[q21]

If Xtoxm's a jester then I'm a flying monkey.

[q21]

I'm trying to keep up, but its exam time... will continue to keep popping my head in. This thread needs a reread and more activity from people (me included) I just can't justify the time at the moment.

Bionic - if you aren't going to support a lynch of anyone why vote again after unvotin... in the same post?

[q21]

Bionic - if you aren't going to support a lynch of anyone why vote again after unvotin... in the same post?

L-6 isn't exactly in danger of being a lynch. She is also one of the people I am calling out for lack of content posting.

I know he's in no danger of it at the moment, but after about page 2 I read every vote as intent to lynch cos other wise I stop taking them seriously. So you saying you don't intent to lynch anyone and then voting was a bit confusing to me.

@Chaz - I can go with a Zazier lynch, but I don't see KoC as scummy. At this point we have one RL day before the day could be cut off at any moment... if we're going to lynch someone we need to be fairly quick about it.

[q21]

RBT is always like that, every time I've played with them. Never been scum.

[q21]

I'll join that, again.

unvote, vote Zazier

[q21]

Not sure if this is the right move or not, but whatever.

Zazier is not the cop. I am the cop.

[q21]

@Cops, do your PM's imply at all that you are the only cop in town?

No, my PM says I am "a" Cop, not "the" Cop. Doesn't change that I think Zazier's scum.

[q21]

If ZazieR is scum, then she wasn't very smart to claim Cop. Why? Because she'd know that I'm not scum, therefore telling the truth about being a miller, therefore that there was an actual Cop. So hyposcum ZazieR must have expected a counter-claim.

...

Or you're her scumbuddy and she knows you're lying. Or she thinks you might be a serial killer. Or she knows that having a miller doesn't guarantee having a cop.

Everything else bad in this post was mentioned so won't repeat it.

[q21]

Last action we can do:
Let's presume that there's a mafia roleblocker and a doc as those roles are usually present and that q21 is the cop. We lynch the player who's scummiest after me according to the town. q21 investigates a player and I investigate a player this night. The doc protects q21. Which means the mafia roleblocker has to target q21 or q21 will have a result. The mafia then has to kill me or I'll have a result.
If they don't kill me, the town has possibly a confirmed innocent. If they do kill me, then town has lost the two scummiest players according to them.

Win-win situation for the town.

Your plan involves too many ifs and buts and falls flat on its face if either of us is town. Even if I were part way to believing your claim I would still reject this.

If G-Force hadn't just made that claim I wouldn't be doing this.

Unvote

Now I question my own sanity. This is not a good thing to have happen this close to a deadline. I'd go as far as to say that we might have been better of lynching Zazier and having G-Force claim tomorrow. Because four days just isn't long enough to sort this out.

[q21]

Bionics 461 states pretty well what I've been thinking, except I'm not excluding iceman until he's posted something. For me the list of lynch possibilities, from best to worst goes:

Adams
RBT
Xtoxm
KoC
Iceman

In fact.

Vote Mr.Adams

The only reason I didn't vote for him when he was being very scummy early in the game was because it would have put him at L-1 or 2 very early in the day. Since then he hasn't done much to make me think town, so for me he is they day's lynch.

[q21]

...

Also, why is this question directed specifically at me? BC has specifically stated that he does not want to see icemanE lynched as a replacement, Fark and chaz both said that they don't want to rule him out, but do not place him on their list of preferred lynches, and q12 places him on the bottom of his list just as I did. Whe haven't you questioned them about this?

...

I have to agree with this sentiment. G-Force did pretty much the same thing as 3 other people with respect to TSN/Iceman... why is he the only one taking flak for it.

[q21]

Investigating a miller still doesn't completely clear up what kind of cop you are though it such tells you whether you are insane/naive or sane/paranoid. I may still do that anyway, since it does split the options for sanity in half, but I will only decide after I see a lynch go down and after rereading.

[q21]

bah... go town!

*awaits 21 gun salute*

[q21]

Well, lets just chalk up another town loss then... I have a few of those... I hates getting offed night one.

Also, well played scum.